“I DON’T BELIEVE IN REALITY”

Summary

Therapy Gecko – “I DON’T BELIEVE IN REALITY” (Nov 5, 2025)

Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Gek (Lyle, the Therapy Gecko) has an extended, in-depth conversation with Kevin, a 40-year-old from Quebec, who is navigating burnout, existential anxiety, queer identity, and profound disconnection from reality after cutting ties with his family. The call explores themes of purpose, capitalist society, the pain and liberation of existential questioning, and rebuilding support systems. The episode then pivots to a lighter (though still honest and vulnerable) chat with Vanessa, who confesses her secret booger habits. The tone oscillates between philosophical introspection, dark humor, and the radically accepting vibe that defines Therapy Gecko.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kevin’s Story: Burnout, Existential Crisis, and Reality Doubt

Burnout & the Turn to Art

• Kevin shares that he started painting after experiencing severe burnout from a high-earning, high-pressure tech job. It was recommended by a psychiatrist during his mental health journey. (03:03–05:36)
• Initially, he saw painting and living artistically as “classless” and “pretentious,” a perspective he later challenged by immersing himself in the medium.

The Existential Split

• After achieving the expected adult “escalator” milestones (career, relationship, house, car, etc.), Kevin began to feel emptiness and asked himself the “real questions.”
• “I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing on this earth, man, or whatever this is. Like, I don’t believe in reality right now…” (07:28, Kevin)
• Kevin feels reality is “scripted, obvious, easy to read” and questions why others go through the motions without resistance.

Societal Frustration & Alienation

• Expresses deep skepticism of capitalism: “Money is fake... we are proving decades after decades... it’s not helping everyone. Only the one.” (09:29, Kevin)
• Struggles with the sense that widespread dissatisfaction with the status quo results in little meaningful change, increasing his disconnection.

Family Estrangement & Identity

• Kevin lost his family support system two years ago after coming out as queer to parents and siblings who were unaccepting. (14:16–18:05)
• He reflects on generational trauma, parental education, and immigration background fueling family conflict.

The Search for Connection and Meaning

• Discusses the importance of love (romantic and otherwise) as a force that restores meaning and grounds him in reality. (24:23–24:49)
• Speaks about loneliness, forming new friendships, and the labor of constructing a support network as an adult.

Gek’s Reflections and Empathy

Gek normalizes and affirms Kevin’s existential vertigo:

• “You’re questioning reality, right? Because you’re getting disconnected from it, because you’re losing the things that connect you with reality. You get connected with reality... by connecting with other people. It’s the thing that will connect you to reality deeper than fucking anything.” (19:08, Gek)
• Observes that these crises, though terrifying, are universal and recurring in human history, but particularly intense now.

Recovery & Small Anchors

• Gek talks about grounding himself in “the normalcy” of life—bananas and kale shakes as a symbol of reconnecting with reality. (34:57–37:05)
• Encourages Kevin not to try to “solve all of the world’s problems,” but instead to “dive really, really deeply into that which is within you.” (29:14–30:01)

Kevin’s Social Rebuilding

• Kevin describes finding acceptance and real communication in a BDSM Discord community, appreciating the directness and clarity around consent, as well as the broader acceptance of neurodiversity. (44:52–50:13)
• Rebuilding a support system is a slow, difficult process; intimacy and similarity are hard to find later in life, especially with accumulated “baggage.”

Reflections on Love, Baggage & Aging

• Kevin acknowledges the challenges of love and romance after so much personal evolution. He was previously married in his 30s, and his “relationship escalator” ultimately didn’t satisfy his evolving self. (53:43–56:07)
• Fears becoming set in his ways and closing off to new experiences.
• Gek suggests that “whatever I believe is probably right,” and encourages staying open to novelty and growth. (60:44–62:04)

Closing Thoughts & Advice

• “If you’re gonna do something, do it all the way. Because you’ll never be happy if you haven’t. You’re always gonna be stressed about it.” (63:06, Kevin’s final word)
• Kevin thanks Gek for connection and acceptance; Gek reaffirms the value of helping to ground others.

---

[Notable Quotes & Moments]

• “I don’t believe in reality right now, as we’re talking.” (07:34, Kevin)
• “You get connected with reality by connecting with other people... if that gets cut off and then you’re alone with your thoughts... it’s like you’re in fucking outer space and the tether has been cut.” (19:08, Gek)
• “I believe that whatever you think about your own reality... becomes true.” (61:32, Gek)
• “So, if you’re gonna do something, do it all the way.” (63:06, Kevin)
• Bananas and yogurt as anchors of normalcy: “I just looked at these bananas and I was like, oh, I like this a lot. This is... being in reality.” (36:14, Gek)
• On community: “The freaks are so good at communicating... it’s just normal... the consent is not just about being normal. It’s also like, I like it... we can be so... we can have good sex, actually.” (46:49, Kevin)

---

[Timestamps for Key Sections]

• 02:48 – Kevin introduced, begins sharing his background
• 03:32–05:36 – Painting, burnout, mental health story
• 07:12–08:38 – Existential questions & disbelief in reality
• 09:29–10:06 – Rant against capitalism, game theory
• 14:16–18:05 – Family estrangement, coming out, trauma
• 19:08–23:50 – Gek’s reflections on existential crisis, connection, love as grounding force, universality of crisis
• 24:23 – What is love? (Romantic vs. omnipotent)
• 34:57–37:05 – Bananas and grounding in daily routine
• 44:52–50:13 – Kevin’s experience with BDSM/Discord community, consent, support system
• 53:43–57:06 – Marriage history, “relationship escalator,” dating after divorce
• 60:44–62:04 – “Whatever you think about your own reality... becomes true.”
• 63:06 – Kevin’s closing advice: “Go all in”

---

Vanessa’s Call: Booger Confessions & Social Norms

Overview

• Vanessa, 22, confesses to the secret habit of picking her nose and wiping boogers in various places—her car, her wall, public spaces—when she’s without tissues. (69:33–81:38)
• She wonders if it’s “crazy,” since she knows it’s gross but can’t stand having a dry nose.
• Gek relates, admits to having done the same and then presents his nihilist perspective: “Just eat it; it’s recycling. It’s more punk rock than wiping it everywhere!” (72:01–75:33)
• The conversation is humorous, irreverent, but nonjudgmental, ending with mutual acknowledgment of human grossness and acceptance.

Notable Quotes

• “I used to do that too. But the thing is... the boogers, they don’t go away, man... That’s why you gotta eat them.” (71:58, Gek)
• “It’s pretty gross. I’m doing that?” (76:12, Vanessa)
• “Keep doing whatever the hell you want with your boogers. It’s none of my business.” (81:29, Gek)

Key Timestamps

• 69:33–70:55 – Vanessa shares her secret habit
• 71:58–75:33 – Gek’s defense of booger-eating, nihilism, and social rebellion

---

Closing Reflections

• Gek celebrates “the normalcy” of reality as a defense and antidote to existential freefall—sometimes, daily routines (bananas, yogurt) are as important as philosophy in re-grounding life.
• Through both calls, the episode underscores Therapy Gecko’s ethos: radical honesty, deep non-judgment, and acceptance—whether the struggle is cosmic or mundane.

---

Summary Table

| Segment | Key Points | Timestamp | |-----------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------| | Kevin’s Burnout | Art as therapy, burnout from tech job, skepticism toward painting’s social class | 03:03–05:36 | | Questioning Reality | Doesn’t believe in reality, finds life predictable & scripted | 07:28–12:54 | | Societal Disillusion | Capitalism critique, frustration with change | 09:29–10:06 | | Family Estrangement | Queer identity, family cut-off, trauma history | 14:16–18:05 | | Love & Connection | Romantic/omnipotent love as grounding, recovery from existential crisis | 24:23–24:49 | | Community Rebuilding | BDSM Discord, consent culture, challenges making new friends | 44:52–50:13 | | Aging & Baggage | Difficulty forming close relationships as older adult with baggage, previous marriage | 53:43–57:06 | | Reality Anchors | Bananas & yogurt as stabilizers, humor in normalcy | 34:57–37:05 | | Vanessa’s Boogers | Booger confession, debate on eating vs. wiping, humorous nihilism | 69:33–81:38 |

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[Jemma Spake]

This is an iheart podcast.

[Gek]

Hey, folks, if any of you guys are creators on TikTok, you're gonna wanna know about this. TikTok is putting on a celebration spotlighting creators from all over the world called Live Fest 2025. I know a lot of people who listen to the show are creators of some kind, and whatever it is you guys do on TikTok, doing it with TikTok Live is a great way to engage with your community and grow your audience. So check out LiveFest 2025 on TikTok to find out how you can be a part of this global celebration. Let's elevate Live together.

[Jemma Spake]

Hey there, it's Jemma Spake. From the psychology of your twenties. Travel is one of the best ways to discover yourself through experiences, making rich memories, the heightened emotions and deep connections. And with EF Ultimate Break's biggest sale of the year, there is up to $1,000 of trips to check Japan, Italy, Greece, Thailand, Egypt, Kenya and beyond, which you can lock in for just $99. Build lasting friendships forever change how you see the world and just have the time of your life.

[Gek]

Visit efultimatebreak.com on the latest episode of.

[Katie Couric]

Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders. We've talked many times over the years, and today he even throws a few questions my way.

[Kevin]

All right, are you ready for another question?

[Vanessa]

Go ahead, hit me, Bernie.

[Katie Couric]

We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course, the government shutdown. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie couric. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hari Kondabolu]

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

I'm Dr. Priyanka Wali, a double board certified physician.

[Hari Kondabolu]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled do I have scurvy at 3am and on our show we're talking about health in a different way. Our episode where we look at diabetes.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

In the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[Hari Kondabolu]

How preventable is type 2?

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gek]

I'm Robert Smith and this is Jacob.

[Kevin]

Goldstein and we used to host a.

[Gek]

Show called Planet Money.

[Kevin]

And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history and some of the worst horrible ideas.

[Gek]

And destructive companies in the history of business.

[Kevin]

First Episode how Southwest airlines used cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business.

[Gek]

The most Texas story ever.

[Kevin]

Listen to business history on the iHeartRadio.

[Gek]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello.

[Kevin]

Hello.

[Gek]

What's your name?

[Kevin]

You wanna. You wanna name me?

[Gek]

Yeah, I'm gonna name you Kevin. What's going on, Kevin?

[Kevin]

Hi. Not much. I am just passing time a lot lately. Painting and making music. Pretty much that's all I'm doing.

[Gek]

What was the first thing you said?

[Kevin]

Painting and doing music.

[Gek]

Ooh. What have you been painting?

[Kevin]

I'm painting this figure that looks like it has a crumb in front of a field of flowers. I don't know how to describe it. It's blindfolded. It's shiny. It's pretty red and blue and green.

[Gek]

What made you want to get into painting?

[Kevin]

Burnout. Total burnout. And the doctor said, like, maybe I should give a painting a try because I was bitching a lot about painters.

[Gek]

You were bitching a lot about painters?

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I don't get it. Like, is it something that. That. Like, is it very classless to me at that time, you know, like, only you had to be, like, in a certain personality, like, hipsters to be a painter. And I. I didn't understood it.

[Gek]

I have so many questions for you. You. Why did you, like, how did you even get on that topic with your doctor? Like, I. Okay, I understand. Here's the thing. I understand through some stream of consciousness, you arrive at the thought that painters are pretentious and it's classes to paint. I understand you arrive at that in your stream of consciousness, like when you're just taking a walk or whatever. But how did you get from that point to you're now verbalizing it to your doctor?

[Kevin]

Dude, it's been such a long journey for that. Um, you know, the burnout was just like, a bunch of things that happened at the same time. And somehow painting got in the way and became a tool that I like. I was really a perfectionist. I was in this big tech job before, doing, like, hundred thousands of dollars a year and all that nonsense of corporate run. And then I kind of broke down and I had, like, this impression, and he kind of convinced me that I should give it a try, that there's maybe something into it, and. And I took. I took on. I took up his. His advice, I guess, and I give it a try. And then I discovered a lot of things during that moment where I was not thinking, and then I realized Stuff since. And it's been two years. I'm thinking now you burned out so.

[Gek]

Bad that you had to go to a doctor about it is what I'm.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I have a psychiatrist.

[Gek]

You had a what?

[Kevin]

I have a psychiatrist.

[Gek]

Oh, okay. This is. Your psychiatrist told you this?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Gek]

What was the moment? What was, like, the straw that broke the camel's back? What was the thing that made you go, okay, I have to, like, seek medical attention for this?

[Kevin]

Well, at the beginning was, like, little things, to be honest. Like, I then went to see the doctor right away when I had a burnout. It kind of became a burnout while I was seeing a doctor and before it was just a therapist, before I evolved into a psychiatrist. And I thought I had, like, some disorder or something because I had this intensity of doing things that are so neat that I have to be all the way. And, like, I was asking myself some questions, like, okay, no, I'm not normal. I think, like, if I compare myself to the others, I kind of need to, I don't know. Like, there's a balance that it's not working out anymore today. And before it kind of worked out, like, I was, like, selling at things. I was really good and making money. I was happy. Doing a bunch of, like, I had family, my girlfriend, a dog and even a car once, and I was lining up to, like, get a house and shit. And then, then everything kind of broke down at the same time when I started asking myself a real question after those first indicators of me thinking there's something wrong with me.

[Gek]

So you had the kind of traditional, picturesque life that is afforded to you by a tech job, and then you started to break down, and then you started to ask yourself the real questions. What are the real questions?

[Kevin]

I, I don't know what the I'm doing on this earth, man, or whatever this is. Like, I don't believe in reality right.

[Gek]

Now, as we're talking. You don't believe in reality?

[Kevin]

Yeah, I know. I feel it. I know it's, it's crazy talking, but deep down, like, if people are believing things like fake the universe or whatever, I'm believing this reality is not. It is. There's more than, than this. Like, I, I, there's something weird going on.

[Gek]

What do you think is going on?

[Kevin]

You. I don't know. Like, didn't you feel something is weird? Like, like, definitely there's something weird. We're. We're definitely under this thing that we have to accept, but we don't really have to, but we're still Doing it. And I don't get it. Like, why are people not being more angry towards the things that are happening or just letting the things happen? You know, I know that, like, I have no disrespect to people striking and movements and organization, all of that, but after 40 years on this planet, dude, I don't see much change. I only see it, like, getting worse. Like, can you come? The opposite.

[Gek]

Can you do me a favor? I don't know if I'm on the speakerphone or if I'm on a headset or anything, but if I am, can you take me off?

[Kevin]

No. No, you're not. Like, I'm in my room.

[Gek]

Like, I made sure you're holding your phone right up to your ear.

[Kevin]

Yeah, dude.

[Gek]

Okay. Hmm. Okay, well. Well, you said a lot of things. I mean, the thing about whether or not things are going to get worse, we could talk about, but. Ah, crap. You met. You had a point that I really wanted to touch on. You said that people accept that. What do you, like, what do you think people are blindly accepting that your brain is telling you to challenge?

[Kevin]

Like, if I have to put it in one word, it's freaking capitalism, dude. It's. It's. It's a joke. It's like, money is fake. Like, I know we can do things with it and make the world go wrong and whatever, but we are proving decades after decades, and it's been maybe a few centuries now, that it's not helping everyone. And just the one, like, you know, war theory, Like a game theory. Like, war game theory. The sooner the person who defects is the one who's gaining everything. You know, like, if everybody cooperates, but one defects, that guy's the winner.

[Gek]

Hmm.

[Kevin]

I think that's what's happening today.

[Gek]

And you quit a job that I was making you a lot of money.

[Kevin]

Yeah, well, I'm not gonna disclose the terms of my employment right now, but I didn't quit.

[Gek]

You didn't quit?

[Kevin]

No.

[Gek]

And are you still working as hard as much as you were working before?

[Kevin]

I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, I've been very lucky to land a very good job. And I have these private insurance now that are taking care of me while I figured all this out. All this out.

[Gek]

You said you have private insurance.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, while I figured this out.

[Gek]

Interesting. Okay, so it's so. So you believe. Because we're talking about a lot of things. Because I think on one end, you're just talking. You're talking about, like. Okay, from a. From a point of view, that's grounded in this reality and in the acceptance that reality does exist. And we're looking at society were saying that capitalism is like the thing that people. People shouldn't be accepting. There's a lot of different conversation I'm trying to reel you in on, I guess, one particular thing because now then, then, then we're on like, a metaphysical level where you're like, I'm not even sure reality exists. So. So let's go there.

[Kevin]

I'm sorry, I'm confusing.

[Gek]

No, no, no, you're not confusing me at all. You're just, you're getting everything out. And I'm trying to kind of boil it down. So what is it, what's going on day to day that makes you think reality might not exist?

[Kevin]

Everything's kind of obvious. Everything is kind of scripted. Everything is kind of. It's kind of easy to read, like, to understand everything and like a little bit predictable to a point. That is kind of like, is there a joke being pulled on? That's what makes me feel like reality is wonky. Like, I don't understand why some people are not able to see the path that you need to take to be able to be better. Which is extremely paradoxical with what I'm doing right now. But when people talk to me about whatever is happening in their life, I feel like everything is the same as everybody else. And I don't get it. Like, why are they not trying to do something else too? They're just like, letting everything happen.

[Gek]

You feel like everyone around you is, like, letting life happen to them.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. That's less central.

[Gek]

No, well. Well, you're feeling existential, and I'm trying to tap into whatever your existential feelings are, and I'm trying to understand them.

[Kevin]

Well, maybe, yeah, it would help you to understand that I lost my whole support system, like my family and all that stuff. And I had to, like, understand why I had to do that. And I like, you know, when you know about nurture and environment and how I can build someone and when they're kid. Well, just say my family is not good. And I was part of that for too long without realizing it. Until one point I realized it, which is part of this burnout shift. So I don't have support system. Like, I'm one of those people who kind of like, find their new identity. And during this split splitting of a personality and all that stuff, like, you have to go through these weird places, you know?

[Gek]

Yeah. You said you're 40.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Gek]

And how long ago did your family support system dissipate.

[Kevin]

Officially? Like, when I did the action, not when I started to try to. You know, there's a moment where I start to acknowledge it and talk about it and try to work it out. Been a long period. And then after that, I made an action and then never came back with it. And that's been, like, going to be two years this December.

[Gek]

Okay. And the way you're talking about these people, it doesn't sound like they died. It sounds like you cut them off.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Gek]

And are the. These. Were these your parents and siblings, or were these. Yeah. Were these parents and siblings?

[Kevin]

Yeah, siblings. Siblings and parents. The direct family. My family migrated here from another country after, like, dictatorship and whatever, and then they made me, and then they moved out of this country, and here I am.

[Gek]

And are you. Are you able to explain what it is that made you want to cut your family off?

[Kevin]

I started to explore my queer side, and that's where I started realizing that my family is not really being that way. And actually they are much more the other way. And they're quite bullies and classic people with way too much money on their hands to know what to do with it. And they. I can attack people, and they were so poor before, and I don't get it.

[Gek]

Well, I'm sorry, man. Can you try to. Try to speak a little bit clearer into the. Into the phone? I'm having a little bit of trouble hearing you.

[Kevin]

Sorry, dude. Sorry, dude. So my family doesn't like queer people, basically, and they're really against it.

[Gek]

Mm. And did you have a conversation with them where you, like, you came out to them essentially?

[Kevin]

Well, yeah. Yeah, no, I did. It was like. It's a funny question because people would imagine that when you ask a question, you. You go through this scene where you tell your family, hey, this is what's happening, blah, blah, blah, and then you talk about it. I didn't get to do that. Like, I tried to get to that scene, and then it got bad already, even before I got there. And so then I decided to cut the bonds. And during that was cutting the bonds, I did a bit of a speech. I said who I was, what I was expecting from them, and why I was telling them to off.

[Gek]

And even before that, it sounds like you had some tensions with them.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's. It's very sad what poor education can do to a family who had to flee a country and then just full of PTSD and bad parents on their own. It can get pretty violent.

[Gek]

Poor education. On behalf. Meaning that your. Your parents were poorly educated.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying that, you know, there were bad parents, but I know why.

[Gek]

Yeah. Was anyone. You have siblings, right? How many siblings do you have?

[Kevin]

Two of them. Older.

[Gek]

Were any of them supportive or. Everyone was against this.

[Kevin]

Everybody was against this. Mm.

[Gek]

So this happened two years ago, and. But the whole. But again, yeah. For the whole. Your whole life, you kind of were. There was contention with the family.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, you see, I didn't really realize it at first. Like, a lot of things get normalized. Like, you know how a lot of Latinos are saying, like, getting hit by your mom is kind of normal, but it, like, it's really. It sucks to say that. It kind of is. As long as your family still supported you, you know, like, if you feel love from them. But I had nothing. I only had discipline.

[Gek]

So you've been saying a lot of things that are existential, and I'm just gonna throw some shit. I think I still have more. I think there's still more to dive in with you, but I'm just. I'm just gonna say some stuff and tell me if it resonates with you, because, like. Well, okay. The existential feelings, have they been. Have they come into your brain for the. In the past, like, few years? Like, around the time that your family. You cut your family off?

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gek]

Because what happens. Yeah, go ahead.

[Kevin]

Yeah, no, you go ahead. Please, please.

[Gek]

Because what happens is, is the dude, like, you know when you walk. You know when you're, like, walking down the street, you're talking to someone and. Or like, maybe you see someone, you're talking to someone, and you're like, oh, this person's never had an existential thought in their life. You know what I'm talking about? Um, yeah, that's because the reality, like, when you're. You're questioning reality, right? Because you're getting disconnected from it because you're losing the things that connect you with reality. You get connected with reality via, number one, with. By connecting with other people. It's the thing that will connect you to reality deeper than fucking anything. That's why when I had. I had a crazy existential crisis, and since then, my relationship with my fucking family, my friends is just. I'm like, that's the. That just connects me back into the fucking universe, right? And if. If that gets cut off and then you're alone with your thoughts, and the other thing that connects you with reality is some kind of like, job or purpose or goal or, you know, you don't have fucking time to think about the questions that you're thinking about because you're busy. You got to fucking answer emails and you got to check the. The S&P 500. And you got to do this thing if you have your, you know, your brain and your goals, and you're like, okay, I got to work to get this. And then the other thing. And when that goes away and when your relationships go away, it's like you're in fucking outer space and the tether has been cut and you're spinning and you're floating and you have nothing to. To do but think about big questions that you. That a lot of people, most. The majority of people are. Are busy. Are busy like, you know, being with their friends and family and enjoying their lives or busy just trying to fucking survive on this planet, that they're not thinking about those things. But when that shit all goes away and you're just by yourself, yeah, you're gonna start thinking those thoughts. And, you know, it's a b. It's sometimes a really beautiful place to be because it's like, whoa, I never thought. Questioned any of this shit before. And it's. It's initially always a fucking terrifying place to be. The day I had that exit, the day I had an existential crisis is the one of the, you know, two worst days of my fucking life. It's really terrifying. But then I'm. I don't know how you're feeling, but maybe when you get into that place, you start having this thought that you can't go back, that you took a hell, that you're at, that you're not only floating in outer space, but that you took the fucking helmet off and now you're getting sucked into space and you can't put it on. But the good news is that you can. I believe that you. You can.

[Kevin]

So I don't want to sound alarmist gig, like, I'm.

[Gek]

I don't think you're sounding alarmist. I don't think you're sounding alarmist. I'm just trying to relate to you.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Gek]

Co. Go ahead.

[Kevin]

Yeah. I'm just embracing the state, and I feel privileged to talk to you, to be honest. You spoke to so many people. I really believe in that. Speaking up to a lot of people. I had a career where I spent, like, seven years doing surveys with a team of people for, like, review of budget for, like, festivals here in the province of Quebec in Canada. And there's a Lot of festivals, and I had to talk to a lot of people. And that is nice. You know, you get. You get to have this. This. I. I get what you're saying, but the problem is that I feel like if when we get to this space that I am today, like, seeing the things that I'm saying today, it's because the world is like that. Like, why. Why are we still, like, doing war and stuff like that? Why are we sleeping for things that it was done so long ago? And, like, I understand reparation and all that stuff, but it is still guiding actions and politics that we. We can't do much about. Like, we're trying to vote the thing. We're trying to do all that stuff. And, like, I'm very discouraged. I feel like we need Jesus to come back, you know? Like, yeah, that would be nice that you would come back. Like, that would be the best thing. But in the meantime, I'm like. Like, why I'm here. I'm trying to find a thing where, like, regardless if I connect to people or not, that makes sense. And the only thing that I'd be thinking about, gek, is love. And love is, like, when I'm falling in love, everything goes well. But of course, should I. Should I go back into that? You know, like, should I take it as a thing? Like, it's such a weird thing to think about it now with this state than before. Because, you know when you said earlier, when there's somebody who never had, like, an existential crisis in their life, like, they never thought about how love is influencing them to be happy. And I think of that now like, it's not just a thought that came and. No, it's like inhabit. It's. It's what's doing to me right now, you know, it's not just a theory that I understand. So I feel like. I think. I think that's maybe one of the reasons I'm saying that it's a trickery. And like, the universe with reality is a trickery because as soon as love fades away, like, everything changes. Like, it's so different.

[Gek]

I have a. I got a lot of thoughts on what you said, but. Yeah. By the way, when you say love, do you mean love is like a. I was like, a omnipotent force, or do you mean like, romantic love?

[Kevin]

Ha. It's a great question, dude. Can you help me out? Like, I don't know.

[Gek]

I can't help you because I don't know. Well, do you? Well, only you know. Only you know the answer to that.

[Kevin]

Question, but that's my answer. I mean, like, I, I, I don't, I'm not sure if it's one or the other right now.

[Gek]

Well, when you were thinking about it, you had something in mind. Was what you had in mind a person that you're romantically in love with?

[Kevin]

Yeah. But is it just an idea? And I feel like it's just the idea of being in love.

[Gek]

Okay, okay, so, so what? Yeah, so what you had in mind was a romance. Was romantic love. Okay, so that's what you. So, so that's what you meant, I think.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Okay.

[Gek]

Okay. So. Yeah, that's deeply potent. I mean, yeah, if you're in love with someone and you care about them. Yeah. It takes you away. I mean, similar to the friend, the fucking. You can, you can, yeah. And you can use that to mean love as an omnipotent force because. Yeah. When you're working out of love. Yeah. You're not stuck in existential whatever. If you're, you know, with your family or your friends or like a romantic lover or doing something you love or, or contributing to some mission that you love or like loving yourself or whatever, then. Yeah. That takes you away from the existential stuff and just like, to. And to your point. And it's part of an existential crisis of when you kind of, like, look at. Yeah. The world at large and it's us. It's scary because it's. Yes. It's scary because it's so uncertain. And this group of people that are alive today were experiencing things that we didn't think we're gonna happen. I've said this on this show before, and I really believe it, but, like, throughout human history, this has happened before. You know, I mean, the we. The we. The fucking world was at war twice, you know, and long before that, there's been, like, crusades and sh. I'm not a history guy. I can't, I guess, sit here and I can't sit here and name wars, but, like, conflict and evolution and fear of the uncertainty is not. Like, the things themselves are new, but the feelings are not. We're in a weird place. We're in a weird place because, like, things evolve at a compounding exponential rate. And we're at, like, a pretty strongly ex. We're at, like, a crazy exponential curve in society right now. So I think we're feeling, we might be feeling the feelings in a greater amount of intensity than the, the newest. People are always gonna feel the familiar feelings at the highest amount of intensity that anyone's ever felt them because we're the newest people. But the feelings of this. The feelings have been around forever. It's the intensity that is just gonna keep growing and growing and growing. But the good news is, is that. What's your name? Kevin. The good news is that you, Kevin, don't have to solve all of the world's problems on your own. You, like, you. Not only do you. Not only. Not only do you not have to. You. You can't. Like, you can't. At a certain point, I think you have to accept that which is beyond you. And the beautiful thing is that once you accept that which is beyond you, you can fully, beautifully dive into that. Into the opposite. You dive into that which is within you, which is whatever your expressions of love are via your relationships or your painting or whatever the fuck it is. And that is better than removing your brain from your body and trying to be God and take on the whole planet at once. It's. You can't. It's just not your job to do everything at once. Your. Your job is to dive really, really deeply into that which is within you. And. And by the way, if you have. If you really care and you about, you know, if you. If you have groups of people you really care about or you have causes you really care about and things you really believe in that are, like, to serve, you know, these greater existential societal purposes, then, you know, look, part of the diving deep into what is within your control can be doing things that. That support those things that you love and care about. That's part of, like, diving into your love. But. But you can't let it drive you into an existential insanity because then you're no good to anyone to. That, you know, you're no good to yourself. And you gotta. You gotta be. You gotta be good to yourself.

[Kevin]

Yeah. You know, I'm gonna be honest. I'm pretty tired of being this thing. Like, I want to move on from it.

[Gek]

Yeah. It's exhaust. Horrible. It's exhausting.

[Kevin]

It's so exhausting.

[Gek]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

I had a lot of fun at the beginning. You know, like, it was like a new drug. I was tripping and discovering all these stuff. Like, it was really, really fun.

[Gek]

Mm.

[Kevin]

But. But you're right. And thank you for telling me that. It really feels good to hear somebody tell me instead of just my own mind trying to convince myself for that.

[Gek]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Thanks.

[Gek]

And you. And you can. You can. You can go back. I pro. I swear. You can go back. I didn't think I'd be Able to go back. You can go back, but it takes some finagling and it takes some something, someone somewhere to ground you back into reality. And you can hopefully, hopefully you find that. And then hopefully you spend the rest of your life doing that or interacting with those people or some. Something takes that place. And then, you know, you make it to 80 something and then you die. Then someone will. Someone else. Someone else will worry about, and then somebody else will worry about whatever the fuck you were worrying about, and it'll be their turn to, you know, solve capitalism, you know.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Thanks for that.

[Gek]

Kevin. You said, you said, you said we don't have to go super deep into this, but you said in a text to me, you wrote, I think I am an AI.

[Kevin]

Yeah. It's like this dissociative state. It's like I don't have to think everything makes sense. Like, like, like. But if. If I fall in love with something, I'm not doing that. Like, it's. It's weird.

[Gek]

Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean.

[Kevin]

See what I mean? Like, like when you're deep in this nihilism and all that stuff, like, everything is evident and you're like, you know, you just get out of your head. And you said it earlier, like, like, to take my brain out of my body and like, that's exactly how I was kind of feeling. Like I wanted to do that a lot and. And like, I do have some friends and all that. And it's like, it's a long job to build a new support system. And it's. It's a thing that's happening a lot, to be honest. Like, I. There's groups that I'm discovering and all that stuff. So it's kind of sad that it's so. Right. Spread. Okay, wait.

[Gek]

Sorry. Sadly said the sad that what is.

[Kevin]

Widespread that I'm finding a lot of people like myself and the thing, like, it's. There's a lot, like, I don't know about in your area, but in your region or whatever. But over here, like, a lot of especially men around my age are going through this stage of like, dude, like what we did, all this effort and now it, like, we're like doing this thing. It's like a movement almost. There's a lot of people like me and I, I. After a little while, I was like, I should not hang out so much with these people. They're like, bringing me down. So I'm gonna try to find more. More hype people. But I'm slowly Getting there, you know, it's kind of easy to lose the. Not my. I don't want to say motivation, but, like, the. The faith that comes with that brings you the motivation.

[Gek]

Kevin, are you there?

[Kevin]

Yeah, I'm here.

[Gek]

Oh, okay. No, I know what you mean. Yeah, definitely. It can definitely. Yeah. Certain things can cause you to lose faith. Yeah.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Katie Couric]

Man.

[Gek]

I don't know. I. I don't know if this is related to anything, but it feels related to me, but I fucking. I bought a blender and I bought bananas. This is not how I normally live my life. I bought a blender, I bought bananas, and I got. I got powdered peanut butter and some almond milk and some fucking kale. I haven't bought K. I don't think I've ever bought. I'm 20. I'm almost 28 years old. I don't remember. I've maybe bought bananas and kale at a grocery store once in my life before. And I was just looking at the. I was just, like, looking at the. I had bananas on my, like, my kitchen counter. My countertop. And I've. I just felt so normal. I felt so. You know what I mean? I just felt so grounded in reality. Thank God you understand. Thank God you understand. Yeah, dude.

[Kevin]

And I called those people, you know, like, the people who expects to buy a Bay Dutson throw for the couch in the living room? Like, when you walk around here in Montreal and you look at people's houses because they have, like, huge window and they want to show it. Everybody has that throw. Like. Like, why is that the program? It's like your bananas, dude. It's like. It's like, that's the program.

[Gek]

That's the program. And so. Okay. And so. And I had the banana. I have the bananas on my kitchen tape, kitchen table. And I just feel so normal. And I. And I thought to myself, and this is. You know, I'm just like, trust me. Like, I. I've. I've been to some ver. You know, everyone's unique. I feel like I've been to some version of what you've been to, or else I don't think we could have this conversation. And I'm telling you, I just looked at these bananas and I was like, oh, I like this a lot. This is. I was. I was like. I was like, oh, being in reality, which is like, I wake up in the morning and I make a kale banana powdered peanut butter smoothie. And then I go to work and I have conversations with people. I'm like, oh, I Love. I'm just like. I'm like, oh, this is what my dad feels like every day of his life, you know? I'm like, this is. It just felt so fucking normal. And I was like, oh, being ground, like, little thing. And it wasn't a big thing that had to ground me. In reality, it was having fucking bananas on my kitchen countertop. I was like, oh, this feels great. I don't want to go back. I don't want to go back to eating McDonald's and sitting on the curb at 2am thinking about death. Like. Like, you know. You know, I want to just. I. You know, I have. I bought zinc tablets, vitamin C. They're sitting on it like this. I have a fucking bottle of zinc tablets sitting next to the bananas. And I'm like. I'm like. I feel like my dad. I feel like a normal human adult. If it just felt great, I hope you know, you get what I'm saying.

[Kevin]

I'm sorry if I made fun of that earlier.

[Gek]

No, no, I don't think you are. No, no, no, no. I feel. No, no, I. And I know why you feel like I'm about to say that, but I feel very. I like, I like the normalcy. I like it.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Gek]

But I also. I get bored really easily, so I've kind of tried to set up my life in such a way that, like, it's half normal, half crazy, because if I have too much of either of them, if I. Too many days in a row eating, like, salmon and bananas, I'll go insane. But too many days in a row, you know, whatever. Going to the strip club and eating an Almond Joy for dinner.

[Kevin]

That's what you do in your weekend skag.

[Gek]

Go to strip clubs and eat Almond Joys. No, I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. I know, but, yeah, I need a little bit of both universes, I think, to feel okay. And. I don't know. I don't know. And everyone's different. Everyone's brain is wired differently. I don't know. Maybe you. Maybe you're. Because you sound like you're enjoying existential life.

[Kevin]

I. I.

[Gek]

Because it came to you. It seems like it came to you in a fun way. Sorry.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Yeah. I always jump into things like, in, like. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna adopt this attitude, you know, like a little bit dulu, almost. Like, I always been, like, in position of crisis at work and things like that, so I had to be extremely positive in moments where everybody was negative. So. So it's kind of like, I don't know, loving myself into this behavior, I guess. Mm. So I, I cannot do these things. Like when, when there's a challenge or something. I don't know, I just get like, like if I'm not tired, I'm just gonna get into it, you know, Like, I don't do the thing halfway, I'm gonna jump all the way in. But now like, like, like relating back to your bananas. Like, I, I'm doing that. Actually, I'm thinking about my yogurt. I have yogurt every day.

[Gek]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

If I don't have my yogurt for more than one day, like, I'm moody.

[Gek]

Mm.

[Annabe Sofa Advertiser]

There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Anibe sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa. From top to bottom, the stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Anna Bay has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699 and right now get early access to Black Friday savings up to 60% off storewide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop [e-mail] Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Gek]

Hey folks, if any of you guys are creators on TikTok, you're gonna want to know about this. TikTok is putting on a celebration spotlighting creators from all over the world called Live Fest 2025. I know a lot of people who listen to this show or call into this show are of some kind. You guys do all sorts of stuff. Life coaching, making funny sketches, making music. Whatever it is you do on TikTok. Doing it with TikTok Live is a great way to engage with your community and grow your audience. And this year's Live Fest is a great opportunity to show the world whatever it is that you do best. You can take home real trophies and walk down the red carpet at TikTok's annual awards ceremony. So whether you're just starting out on TikTok or already growing your community, check out LiveFest2025 on TikTok to find out how you can be a part of this global celebration. Let's elevate live together.

[Jemma Spake]

Hey there, it's Jemma Spaeg. From the psychology of your twenties. Travel is one of the best ways to discover yourself through experiences, making rich memories, the heightened emotions and deep connections. And with EF Ultimate Break's biggest sale of the year, there is up to $1,000 off Troo to Japan, Italy, Greece, Thailand, Egypt, Kenya and beyond, which you can lock in for just $99, build lasting friendships forever, change how you see the world and just have the time of your life. Visit ef ultimate break.com on the latest.

[Katie Couric]

Episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders, who is 84 years old, has spent 34 years in Congress and he can still pack a rally with people up to quarter of his age.

[Kevin]

Denver, 34,000 people come out. Salt Lake City, 20,000 people. You know, huge turnouts. People are really dissatisfied about the status quo.

[Katie Couric]

His Fighting Oligarchy tour with AOC and other young progressives has become a movement. But is his message too far to the left? Well, he certainly doesn't think so.

[Kevin]

Does that sound like a radical idea, Judy? Is that too far left for you?

[Katie Couric]

Okay, okay, wait. I get your point, Bernie. We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living and of course the government shutdown, not to mention the current state of the Democratic Party.

[Kevin]

To me, the failure of the Democratic Party has been an unwillingness to recognize the real issues.

[Katie Couric]

Open your free iHeartRadio app search next question with Katie Couric and listen.

[Gek]

Now.

[Hari Kondabolu]

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley, a double board certified physician.

[Hari Kondabolu]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled do I have scurvy at 3am on health stuff, we're.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Talking about health in a different way.

[Hari Kondabolu]

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

What our health says about us and the way we're living.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Like our episode where we look at.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Diabetes in the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[Hari Kondabolu]

How preventable is type 2?

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Extremely. Or our in depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that like your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible. But like you don't even know.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

You don't know.

[Hari Kondabolu]

You don't know.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kevin]

By the way, I want to say I've been listening to your show for, like, two years.

[Gek]

Oh, cool. Thanks, man.

[Kevin]

Weird coincidence.

[Gek]

Weird coincidence.

[Kevin]

Yeah. The moment I saw my burnout and then you appeared.

[Gek]

Oh. Oh, yes. Yeah, I guess I did appear around the time of your burnout.

[Kevin]

Yeah. It was fucking amazing to watch you. I talked about you to everybody I met.

[Gek]

Oh, thanks, man. Thanks, man. I feel like. I feel like we're nearing a point of ending the call, but I have what I want to. But I have. I'm curious about a couple more things, because you said you're trying to build your. Because you're in the process of, like, building a new. A new support system, and I. I feel like we didn't. I want to get into a little bit of how that is going for you.

[Kevin]

Well, there's been a lot of tries with, like, in real life, with going out to events and stuff like that, but then really tired me a lot, and I ended up with some people that were like. I don't know. I was. I guess I'm making a few bad choices. So I backed up a little bit, and I started using, like, some different Discord servers. And kind of funny enough, like, I found this BDSM discord that. That really is nice. It's not about the BDSM so much. It's more about the community. And people are freaking nice in bdsm. They're like. I think they all understand where I am. And also, they. They're like. They kind of know how to talk about it in a way that kind of makes it funny, because when I. When I. When I go to the office and I try to find somebody to talk about this stuff in my mind, it's like, no, forget about it. So it's nice to have found this. This little subgroup of people that are pretty awesome.

[Gek]

Wait, tell me. Okay, this is like a. We. That's. Okay. We've been on the phone for 40 minutes, and I. You just introduced a whole. You. You just introduced an entirely extra 40 minutes of conversational topic now.

[Kevin]

Maybe for another time. Dude, I don't want to take away the time for the other people.

[Gek]

Oh, this is.

[Kevin]

You were saying that we were going to finish.

[Gek]

It's. It'. No, this is. All right, tell me more about this BDSM community. Like what? Like. Like, tell me about the conversations that you're having in. In this community that you. That are, like, new conversations for you.

[Kevin]

New conversation for me. In that community. Well, they're not so new anymore because I've been in that community for a little bit now.

[Gek]

Or tell me, tell me what was, tell me what was, what was new at the time?

[Kevin]

The concept of consent. Like, I'm gonna be super binary here. I'm gonna define people by normies. And the freaks. And the freaks are so good at communicating and bad. And before I was introduced to that world, I felt like, like flirting was a lot of, like, you have to guess things. And I know that today, like, that's not what we're teaching. But you have to remember, like, I'm a freaking millennial and I, like a bunch of people in my generation didn't learn how to, to talk sexy, you know, Like, I don't know if you understand what I'm saying.

[Gek]

No, I know. Yeah, I know. You mean, like, I think our generation, I think, yeah, older generations were taught like, no, like you don't, like, you have to like go in for the kiss at like, like when the moment is right. Like, like, yeah, people, people are taught that it's like weird to like ask to kiss someone.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah. Or say, hey, I would kiss you right now, or things like that. It would be like you're perceived as someone that is like, oh my God, you're so like brave and you have to be very confident. But in that community, it's like, it's just normal. It's not something that it's so like, I don't know, the sense of consent is not just about being normal. It's also like, I like it. It's like the way that he's doing it being so clear. Like I don't like to read between lines, to be honest. And when I discovered the community, I was like, oh my God, we can be so like, we can have good sex. Actually.

[Gek]

Did you. What kinds of conversations did you have with them that like, weren't about sex, that were just like kind of overarching things?

[Kevin]

A lot of people having different. Like there's a lot of neurodiversity, people with different would say diagnostics or whatnot and asking for advices how to deal with those things in different situation. And there's other people with the same type of neurodiversity and they're all like helping each other out, having good sex or not just good sex, also about anything else, like relationship wise or whatever. And there's, there's scenes sometimes where we share the win of the week, but it cannot be sexual. So it's just like, hey, I won $2, no scratcher. Yeah.

[Gek]

Have you ever participated in win of the week?

[Kevin]

Of the what?

[Gek]

Have you ever participated in the win of the week?

[Kevin]

No, not yet. Not really. Like, it's up to you to choose to share things or not.

[Gek]

Mm. And have you met any of these people in person yet?

[Kevin]

Yeah, plenty.

[Gek]

Oh, okay.

[Kevin]

Especially at the beginning of my burnout.

[Gek]

And how did those interactions go?

[Kevin]

Well, that's where I discovered a lot of different type of people, and it took a little while for me to, like, really understand this community and all the. The people. It took a while. Like, I was stunned at first, and I don't know. Like, I had to back up a little bit and then go back in.

[Gek]

So it sounds like these have been, like, a very. Like, this has been a very. Have any of these. Have any of these people stuck around? Have any of these people become like. Like, staples, like, of your kind of support system?

[Kevin]

Not yet. Not yet. Like, I. I tried, but then we get intimate, and we discover there's. When we have differences, and I don't want to. There's, like, so much you can compromise for.

[Gek]

You know.

[Kevin]

It'S kind of hard to find people that are very similar to you when. When you have so much baggage. I would say it's kind of hard to, like, put the baggage aside.

[Gek]

Well, you're not gonna be able to find people similar to you if you're putting the baggage aside, necessarily.

[Kevin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Gek]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, part of finding people who are similar to you is finding people with somewhat similar baggage. I mean, everyone has bag. Anyone who's lived any. I think anyone who's lived any life worth talking about has some form of baggage.

[Kevin]

Well, I hope so. Like, it would be weird to not have baggage anyway. It's just, you know, after so much of it, like, I don't want to say that. That, like, I had, like, a really very intense and everything in my life, you know, like, that seemed really, really intense since the beginning. So finding, like. And going throughout, realizing that later on, it's harder to find somebody who would matches compared to when I was 20 and I didn't know much of life and I wanted to get married, for example, which I eventually did. But after. After, like, going back in my mind during that evolution, I think the longer you get old and the more maggots you accrue in your back, the harder it is to find a potential mate, if we want to speak like that, you know? Mm. So when you lose your whole support system late in life, having to rebuild it it's, it's not easy, dude. It takes a while.

[Gek]

You know, I always, I like to talk about this on here a lot, which is that, you know, I mean, my parents got divorced when they were. They must have been in their fucking mid-40s or something like that. And they both managed to find really great relationships in the second half of their life, which I always find very inspiring. But I guess to speak to what you were saying. Oh, crap. Damn it. There was another part of that you were, you were talking about, about finding your support system. Well, a lot of a support system I think can be just like. I, I think there you. There's a lot of. Wait.

[Katie Couric]

Fuck.

[Gek]

Damn it. You said another thing. Ah, shit. I'm trying.

[Kevin]

Like, as long as you grow older, you get those baggage or something like that though.

[Gek]

Oh, I know. Okay, I remember. I was gonna ask you, so you guys, you were married?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Gek]

And how long were you married?

[Kevin]

Five years.

[Gek]

And how did you. Did you get married when you were 20?

[Kevin]

No, no, no, no. When I was a little bit older. You're making me do math. And I had a big joint earlier, I was in my 30s.

[Gek]

And you got married for five years. How was that marriage?

[Kevin]

Well, I, I looked back at it today and I was like, like I was following this, what we call the relationship escalator, you know, you know about it?

[Gek]

I'm listening.

[Kevin]

I just realized that's what I did. And during, while I was being married, I felt like I was like happy to be honest. But then I, like, that's when I started to question myself about my queerness with my, with my ex wife. And she was down for it. You know, we were like in a queer community and stuff like that. And she was really open to like, we were open minded people. So we started exploring. And then I was like, you're not making me happy anymore. I'm sorry. And then I like, I felt like she was too normie for me. And that's okay. Like she, she really is calm and all that stuff and she likes that. And I needed to have a bit more. That's it.

[Gek]

What the h. So she was willing. Oh, oh, okay. Define, define again. The relationship escalator.

[Kevin]

You know, relationship escalator is like, you get out of school, you get a job, you find a wife, you marry her, you get a house, you get a car, you get a dog, you make the kids. You know, you have this plan. And like when you are into relationship escalator, you can be aware of it or not. And I feel like I was not aware of it. Like, I was really buying into it, and I believed it.

[Gek]

Do you have kids?

[Kevin]

No. Thank God. Yeah.

[Gek]

That makes life way easier. Yeah.

[Kevin]

Oh, dude. Yeah. And I try to, like, find a new relationship after my divorce, you know, and I freaking love kids. Like, I'm. But I. I don't think I'm good with them, you know? Like, I. I talk to them like they're adults. Like, I'm not being offensive or being vulgar or whatever, you know? Like, I know the limits, but, like, if I'm not their parent or their, like, family, it's kind of hard for me to sit there while they've been disciplined, you know, and being in a relationship with their mom and being perceived as, like, a significant adult, it's a weird energy. And I tried to figure it out, and I was like, nah, I can't do this. It's not that I don't like it. It's just this dynamic, this specific dynamic. It's just a whirlwind of emotion that I don't understand. So, yeah, I'm sorry, ladies, without. With just a kid and no husband or whatever, but I'm not dating that kind of girl.

[Gek]

Oh, would you be down to be, like, a good, like, a stepdad vibes?

[Kevin]

No. No, not even. No, it's just. It's weird because I had a stepdad at one point, and it just feels weird. Like I don't. I don't have this thing. Like, I don't have this father thing.

[Gek]

Are you. Would you get married again?

[Kevin]

Only a fool would believe in life without love. So if I get married again, like. Like, of course, if I get in love enough, you know, like. Like I could ignore right now and not be happy about it, like, or have, like, hate for love or people in love because I'm heartbroken or whatever, but it's always going to change. Like, I know that.

[Katie Couric]

Mm.

[Gek]

Mm. Are you. Are you looking for love actively?

[Kevin]

Well, I try to, you know, to connect with people and finding intimacy. But if I'm saying that I want to fall in love, like, looking for love, like, yes, like. Like, I want that, but I don't believe it yet.

[Gek]

Are you open to the idea that you might or have you. Are you. Like, I've lived long enough to know what I know.

[Kevin]

It's a very scary thought, dude. Like, I don't want to, like, stop going forward. Like, no, no, I don't want to. Like, I'm afraid that it's going to happen, but I don't want to think. Like, that does that make sense?

[Gek]

Yeah, that makes sense. You're afraid that you're going to start to believe that you already know everything you know?

[Kevin]

Yeah. And then just be like, fuck it, I'm just going to do a loner job and wait for death and not be actively in life, you know?

[Gek]

Yeah, you know what? Fuck that. What do you mean, fuck, fuck, fuck the idea that you know everything you know and you're gonna get a loner job and wait for death.

[Kevin]

I know I want to say that, but I'm having hesitation. Like I feel like it happened. I guess I just need to go out again.

[Gek]

Well, guess what? Well, well listen, guess what? And here, here's what I believe. And I don't. I don't know, man. I can only really live my life and say the things I'm saying in the moment. I saying it even though it's recorded. But I don't know as I'm talking to you, as I'm thinking, because I've had this. I feel, I feel with you a similar fear that I'll come to believe that I already know everything that I know and that there is no new thing that I can learn about love or life or be taught or that nothing else can surprise me and blah, blah, blah, blah, that stuff, you know what I think in this moment is true is that the answer to that conundrum is that whatever I believe is probably right, you know? Do you know what I mean when I say that?

[Kevin]

Well, there's a lot of things that comes to mind, but immediately I thought you were saying like, like I believe that I know everything, but I don't act like it. Something like that.

[Gek]

No, what I mean is like if I decide that I know everything and that life has taught me all its. I've lived enough, done enough, tried enough, seen enough, felt enough, that I already know everything that life has to show me and there's no new surprises. Let me just get a loner job waiting for death. If I truly believe that, I think that becomes the reality of my life. But if I start to believe, hey, you know, I'm not done yet. And, but if I. But then if I believe, hey, I'm not done yet. Let's see what's behind this door. Let's talk to this person. Let's go here, let's do this. Let's try something different over here. Let's think this way or that way. Then I think I'm right, you know, I believe that I believe. I really do really feel like the. And I don't know, maybe this is. May I. I. I love inhaling copium straight into my. I'll. And I'll inject liquid IV copium directly into my veins. It's my favorite drug of all time. And perhaps this is me huffing copium. But some. I believe that a little bit that whatever you think about your own reality is, you know, becomes. Becomes true.

[Kevin]

You know, but. But you know, you. You can never do it alone. I think when. And. And I want to thank you again for like, when we started talking, how you brought me back, dude. Like, I. We just need that because sometimes we're like in space and we're trying to put our helmet back on and it kind of helps to have a bit of a. A wingman that can be there for you.

[Gek]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kevin]

So that's. That's. That's what. That's number one. You. So thank you for existing. Dude. Seriously, I. I've seen you helping so many people online. I. I think. I think you're one of the greatest human I. I know. Like, you're giving thanks, brother.

[Gek]

Actually, you know, thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. It's really nice.

[Kevin]

Yeah. You're awesome, dude. You're fucking awesome.

[Gek]

Thanks, man. I hope this conversation was. I hope this was helpful to you in some way, shape or form.

[Kevin]

Yo, dude. 100%.

[Gek]

Okay, good. Kevin, is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

[Kevin]

If you hit it with something, it's kind of hard to figure it out. But if you go in, go all in. If you don't, then don't go in at all. No. You know what I mean?

[Gek]

I think I know what you mean.

[Kevin]

Yeah. So if you're gonna do something, do it all the way. Because you'll never be happy if you haven't. You're always gonna be stressed about it. So thank you for everything. Gek.

[Gek]

Take care, man.

[Kevin]

You too. Bye.

[Gek]

That was. Kevin, that was a good existential conversation. Dude, I'm telling you, the. You have. I don't know. I just looked at the bananas on my fucking kitchen table and I'm like, oh, okay. This is what it feels like to like. Sometimes I'll see like an old man and he's like jogging and he like, eats a banana or whatever and I'm like, how is this guy not freaky? This guy's about. This guy is on death's door. Why is he not. Why am I. I'm young. Why am I having the existential crisis? Why is he not freaking out and it's because he has bananas on his shelf. He's not concerned with that. He's got, he's got a banana and he goes for a walk and he has a dog. He's in reality, he's not thinking about it. Smart.

[Annabe Sofa Advertiser]

Let's be real. Life happens, kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. That's why you need a washable sofa that can keep up. Our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

See you.

[Annabe Sofa Advertiser]

You can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus they're earth friendly and trusted by over 2200,000 happy customers. Get early access to Black Friday pricing starting at just $699. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Gek]

Hey folks, if any of you guys are creators on TikTok, you're going to want to know about this. TikTok is putting on a celebration spotlighting creators from all over the world called Live Fest 2025. I know a lot of people who listen to this show or call into this show are creators of some kind. You guys do all sorts of stuff, life coaching, making funny sketches, making music, whatever it is you do on TikTok. Doing it with TikTok Live is a great way to engage with your community and grow your audience. And this year's Live Fest is a great opportunity to show the world whatever it is that you do best. You can take home real trophies and walk down the red carpet at TikTok's annual awards ceremony. So whether you're just starting out on TikTok or already growing your community, check out LiveFest2025 on TikTok to find out how you can be a part of this global celebration. Let's elevate live together.

[Jemma Spake]

Hey there, it's Jemma Spaeg from the Psychology of your twenties. Travel is one of the best ways to discover yourself through experiences, making rich memories, the heightened emotions and deep connections. And with EF Ultimate Break's biggest sale of the year, there is up to a thousand dollars off trips to Japan, Italy, Greece, Thailand, Egypt, Kenya, and beyond which you can lock in for just $99, build lasting friendships, forever change how you see the world and just have the time of your life.

[Gek]

Visit efultimatebreak.com on the latest episode of.

[Katie Couric]

Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders, who is 84 years old, has spent 34 years in Congress and he can still pack a rally with people a quarter of his age.

[Kevin]

Denver, 34,000 people come out. Salt Lake City, 20,000 people. You know, huge turnouts. People are really dissatisfied about the status quo.

[Katie Couric]

His Fighting Oligarchy tour with AOC and other young progressives has become a movement. But is his message too far to the left? Well, he certainly doesn't think so.

[Kevin]

Does that sound like a radical idea? Is that too far left for you?

[Katie Couric]

Okay, okay, wait. I get your point, Bernie. We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course the government shutdown, not to mention the current state of the Democratic Party.

[Kevin]

To me, the failure of the Democratic Party has been an unwillingness to recognize the real issues.

[Katie Couric]

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search next question with Katie Couric and listen. Now.

[Hari Kondabolu]

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley, a double board certified physician.

[Hari Kondabolu]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled do I have scurvy at 3am on how to health.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.

[Hari Kondabolu]

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

What our health says about us and the way we're living.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Like our episode where we look at.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Diabetes in the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[Hari Kondabolu]

How preventable is type 2?

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Extremely. Or our in depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that like your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like, you don't even know.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

You don't know.

[Kevin]

You don't know.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in.

[Hari Kondabolu]

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vanessa]

Hello, can you hear me?

[Gek]

Yeah, hi.

[Vanessa]

What's your name, bruh? My name is Vanessa.

[Gek]

Vanessa. Vanessa. You texted me and you said my name is Vanessa. Nobody knows about my booger secret.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like a. Okay. It's weird because nobody, it's not anything like really gross. It's just. Okay. Sometimes when I'm in my car, I pick my booger and I put it under my feet because I don't have any other tissue around me. Or like, sometimes when, like in my room, I put it on the wall. Or sometimes, like, even when I'm in, like, a public space, if nobody's watching me, I will do it real quick and I'll put it underneath, like, the seat or something. It's not like. Sorry, go ahead.

[Gek]

No, you go ahead.

[Vanessa]

No, it's not like. Okay, it's only. I don't do this all the time. Just to let you know. I just, it's like, it's only when, like, my nose is, like, super dry. I just, I can't stand it when I have boogers in my nose. And I will only do this when I don't have, like, tissues available. Like, it. Does this sound crazy or am I. Is it valid or. No.

[Gek]

How long have you been doing this?

[Vanessa]

Probably for, like, since I was like, 19, I'm 22 now.

[Kevin]

I'm.

[Vanessa]

I'm a full grown adult. Like, that's the thing. Like, does it sound crazy that I do this or.

[Kevin]

No.

[Vanessa]

Because sometimes I think like, like I know full well what I'm doing, but I still do it.

[Gek]

No, I used to do that.

[Vanessa]

And no one, no one knows about.

[Gek]

No, no, I, I, I, No, I used to do that too. And then here's what I found out is that the boogers, they don't go away, man. Like, you can throw, you can pick them, you can put them on a wall, or you could put them on your seat under your car or whatever. But, you know, one day you're gonna look at your wall and be like, oh, there's so many boogers on this fucking wall. You know, they don't evaporate. That's why you gotta eat them.

[Vanessa]

It's a booger wall. Oh, no, no, no. I don't eat them.

[Gek]

You don't eat them?

[Vanessa]

No. Why would I eat them? It's disgusting.

[Gek]

What do you mean? Why would you. It's way more, it's way more disgusting to wipe them on the wall and the car than to eat them. That's way more disgusting.

[Vanessa]

How is the one especially. I'm okay, I'm putting it on.

[Gek]

All right, you're. Hold on your foot. Your, your phone is cut. Your phone sucks and is cutting out. So I'm gonna go on a rant to you about something. Here's the thing is, I had a, I had a moment. So When I get really depressed and nihilistic, there's little upsides to it. Like, I was in the subway train, and I was looking around, and I was like, you know, I don't care about any of the. I don't. Like, what do I give a shit about any of these people? They're never gonna see me again. Why do I care what they think? And I was. I was, like, feeling sick. Like, I was like, I need to go. I need to go home. I can't be here right now. I was on the subway train, and so I just blow my nose directly into my shirt and. And I had some popcorn. Yeah, And I had some popcorn with me. And so I'm. And I'm eating the popcorn, and it's, like, getting on my stomach, and I'm, like, eating it like a monster. And I'm taking turns blowing my nose into my shirt and eating the popcorn. And nobody. This one lady looks at me a little bit, but everyone else just doesn't care. And I'm like, oh, this nihilism's pretty cool, actually. Like, you know, this is my. I felt like it was really punk rock, you know, I'm defying. I think eating. I try. Mean that. I think eating your boogers is punk rock. It's defiant of the dominant social culture, which tells you to not do that. So it's, you know, in its own look. People won't agree with you. Or. I mean, I agree with me. You're not the one saying this, but people won't agree with me. But it's. It's cool to pick your nose and eat it because it's defiant of societal culture. It's iconoclastic. It's like, you're like. If you pick your nose and eat it, you're kind of like that dude that stood in front of the tanks at Tiananmen Square, you know, Like, I'll put both of those on the same level of cultural defiance.

[Vanessa]

I don't understand what you talked about.

[Kevin]

What.

[Vanessa]

What guy?

[Gek]

You don't. You don't know what I'm talking about?

[Vanessa]

I might be too young for that.

[Gek]

Tiananmen Square in front of the tanks.

[Vanessa]

Elaborate, please.

[Gek]

Never mind. But anyway, the. Anyway, yeah, so that's why I think you should pick your nose and eat it instead of wiping it on.

[Annabe Sofa Advertiser]

Wiping it.

[Gek]

Because here's why I'm going to hold. Like, because when you pick your nose and you wipe it on your walls and stuff, like, you're putting out negative energy into the universe. I think. And I. And I say that as somebody who picked his nose and wiped it on stuff for a long time, I think you put negative energy out into the universe. But when you pick your nose and you eat it, it's like you're recycling. You put your body back into itself. You put, you put your body back into itself. It's no, it's way less gross than wiping it on stuff. I will defend that to the death.

[Vanessa]

So what you're saying is it's pretty gross. I'm doing that.

[Gek]

I mean, it's undeniably gross. Yeah, I mean, I say that as somebody who did it and. But just because I did it doesn't mean it wasn't, you know, gross.

[Vanessa]

It's, it's like. Okay, the reason why I, if I say it's a secret is because it's gotten so bad. Like, it's gotten so bad to the point where I do it in public places when no one's looking. I honestly, now that you're like putting it in that kind of perspective, it sounds really gross. But honestly, I wouldn't defend eating it.

[Gek]

Would you defend wiping it on a wall or on the bottom of your car seat?

[Vanessa]

But you can clean it out after. Like when I, I don't just. Okay, when I put it on the wall, I might leave it on there for maybe like a day or two, sometimes a week if I'm lazy. But I clean it and I, I wipe it off. Sometimes they get a little crusty and I gotta like scrape it off. But I clean it when it's, you know, it's not like a build up or nothing.

[Gek]

You know, there's so many. You ever think about how many defects there are to the human body? Like the fact that we like, like little things, like we like sugar, but it's bad for us. And yeah, our nose builds up with these boogers, but we don't have any natural biological way to like dispose of them. You know, I guess it's like. Well, I guess it's like poop. Like we're supposed to.

[Vanessa]

Yeah.

[Gek]

You know, get rid of it. But I, but it's weird, right? Because I wouldn't. I think eating your own poop is gross. Yeah, it's weird. I, I think. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I wouldn't.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, that's a completely different thing.

[Gek]

Eating your own poop is great. Well, it's, it's kind of a different thing, but it's not really like eating your own poop is gross. Drinking your own piss is gross. But I don't put eating your own boogers in that category, I don't know why. It's. It's kind of. It's a similar universe.

[Vanessa]

I mean, you can. The reason why I say it's grosser to eat it is because you can actually get sick from eating it because burgers have, like, more bacteria. Like, I understand how nasty it is. That's why I wouldn't put it back into my body. And. And the whole poop and pee thing. I mean, like, only way I would defend drinking your own piss is by. If you're, like, in a desert, you have nothing else.

[Gek]

If you were in a desert and you had nothing else, would you eat your own boogers?

[Vanessa]

Okay, okay. How many calories does a booger have, though?

[Gek]

Like, how I'm looking this up.

[Vanessa]

How full am I gonna get if I eat my bone Boogers?

[Gek]

How many calories are. I'm glad I don't have, like, a. Like, a podcast producer guy that, like, looks things up for me because I think I should be forced to do it myself. How many calories are in a. Hold on a booger? A single booger contains negligible. Oh, wait, this is gross. A single booger contains negligible calories because it's mostly water, dust, and dirt. However, the mucus your body produces daily can contain protein and sugar, and you swallow a significant amount per day. Some estimates suggest that you swallow up to 200 calories worth of mucus a day. This is a recycling of your body's own resources rather than a. Is this Google new calorie intake? Yeah, this is Google. So again, so, okay, so my theory was right. Yeah. When you eat your own booger, you're just recycling your body's own calories, your body's own energy, so it's fine. But when you wipe it on a, you know, door or a lamppost or whatever, you're putting your shit.

[Vanessa]

I'm losing calories. I'm losing protein.

[Gek]

You're losing protein. Exactly. What's your name again?

[Vanessa]

Damn, Vanessa.

[Gek]

I'm glad we had this conversation, Vanessa. This was. This was enlightening. This has empowered me to continue to be horrifically disgusting in all areas of my life.

[Vanessa]

It just. It's a reminder of how disgusting people are.

[Gek]

Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

[Vanessa]

No, this was a pretty good conversation. I can't believe he called me. Honestly.

[Gek]

Beautiful. Thank you, Vanessa. And keep doing whatever the hell you want with your boogers. It's none of my business.

[Vanessa]

All right, YouTube. Love you guys.

[Gek]

Bye. Bye.

[Vanessa]

Bye.

[Gek]

200 calories of mucus a day. That's a lot. If I next time I go to try to start cutting calories out of my diet and lose weight, I'm gonna start with mucus. Hello, folks, it's Lyle here. That's the end of this episode. But get this, I'm releasing a bonus episode this week. That's right, an entire extra hour of the podcast that you can listen to by becoming a premium member of Therapy gecko over at therapygecko.supercast.com Supercast subscribers get access to bonus episodes. They get a completely ad free podcast feed of the regular show. They get recordings from my live shows members only streams, and they help support my ability to continue doing this podcast. So here's a clip from this week's members only bonus episode.

[Vanessa]

So short of it is I had a dog put down that I had for a very short amount of time instead of, like, bringing it to a shelter because all the shelters are really.

[Kevin]

Full and I can't keep it.

[Vanessa]

Yeah, it's a big one.

[Gek]

How. Okay, how old was this dog?

[Vanessa]

About 4 years old, but I only had it for like 3 months or so.

[Gek]

4 years old is a little young to put down a dog. Why'd you have to talk?

[Vanessa]

Yeah, I know. I contacted some. I looked them up. They're like, yeah, it's gonna be this much of a weight. And I'm like, I'm gonna have to be gone by then. And that dog would have been alone with, you know, my significant other. And he couldn't even put him on a leash. He tried letting him outside to pee, and he would, like, cry and piss on himself.

[Gek]

So it's just, I mean, shit, brother. You, you, you. Why'd you get the dog in the first place? If you want to hear this full conversation, you can sign up to become a premium member at end of [e-mail] or find the link in the episode description. That's therapygecko.supercast.com all right, I have nothing else to say.

[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders. We've talked many times over the years, and today he even throws a few questions my way.

[Kevin]

All right, are you ready for another question?

[Vanessa]

Go ahead, hit me, Bernie.

[Katie Couric]

We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course, the government shutdown. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts on.

[Hari Kondabolu]

The podcast Health stuff. We are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

I'm Dr. Priyanka Wali, a double board certified physician.

[Hari Kondabolu]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled do I have scurvy at 3am and on our show we're talking about health in a different way. Like our episode where we look at.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Diabetes in the United states. I mean, 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[Hari Kondabolu]

How preventable is type 2?

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gek]

I'm Robert Smith and this is Jacob.

[Kevin]

Goldstein and we used to host a.

[Gek]

Show called Planet Money.

[Kevin]

And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history and some of the worst people, horrible.

[Gek]

Ideas and destruction destructive companies in the history of business.

[Kevin]

First episode, how Southwest airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business.

[Gek]

The most Texas story ever.

[Kevin]

Listen to business history on the iHeartRadio.

[Gek]

App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kevin]

Hey, I'm Cal Penn and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lilly Singh and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics.

[Gek]

Put it another way, are you high?

[Kevin]

Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, but my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here we go again with Kal Penn on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gek]

The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day.

[Kevin]

My fellow Americans, Liberation Day.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

Stories that move markets.

[Jemma Spake]

Chair Powell opened the door to this.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

First interest rate, cut impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line.

[Gek]

Listen to the Big Take from Bloomberg.

[Dr. Priyanka Wali]

News every weekday afternoon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jemma Spake]

This is an iHeart podcast.