“I GREW UP ULTRA ORTHODOX JEWISH “

Summary

Podcast Summary: Therapy Gecko — “I GREW UP ULTRA ORTHODOX JEWISH”

Host: Lyle (The Gecko)
Guest: “Steve”
Release Date: December 31, 2025
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this Therapy Gecko episode, Lyle (the Geck) takes a call from Steve, who grew up ultra Orthodox Jewish in New York. Steve opens up about the isolation, challenges, and eventual departure from his insular upbringing, describing his journey to becoming an absurdist/nihilist. The conversation is an honest, sometimes humorous, sometimes somber look at faith, identity, leaving a strict community, and learning to build a life outside it.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Steve’s Background and Ultra Orthodox Upbringing

• Insular Community in NYC: Steve describes his childhood in a small, somewhat less strict ultra Orthodox sect that had more outreach than sects like Satmar in Williamsburg. (03:31)
• Yeshiva Education: Steve went through the traditional Jewish schooling system, which lacked secular studies. He later earned a GED and put himself through college and grad school. (03:31, 29:31)
• Family Dynamics:
  • Still speaks to his siblings, occasionally to parents (05:08, 05:55)
  • Family didn't excommunicate him but persistently tries to bring him "back."
  • Thanksgiving and Hanukkah are typically the only times he sees his family.
  • Most siblings are more modern Orthodox or secular; parents remain highly religious. (06:18)

2. Experiences and Challenges Within the Community

• Community Summer Camps: All-boys camps were “pretty fucked up places” with poor oversight, sometimes resulting in abuse. (08:24)
• Social Isolation: Steve mentions little interaction with less strict Jewish sects or broader society. (04:34, 08:24)
• Language: Grew up with some Yiddish and can understand German, though not fluently. (07:21)

3. Life After Leaving – Belief and Philosophy

• Existential Crisis:
  • Left orthodoxy in his mid-20s during college.
  • Struggled with depression and a sense that “everything’s useless.” (10:48)
• Influence of Philosophy:
  • Became fascinated by absurdism (Albert Camus, The Myth of Sisyphus) after leaving religion.
  • Therapy and time helped him adapt to this new worldview. (09:57, 10:05, 10:48)

Notable Quote:

“I was literally walking around with a dark cloud looming over my head. I was super depressed. ... But thank God I came out on the other side. ... Just, thankfully.” —Steve (10:48)

4. Religion as Tradition vs. Dogma

• Insightful discussion about how religious rituals and traditions are often defended without question (the “wicked child” story from Passover).
• Steve and Lyle critique the use of fear and dogma to enforce conformity.
  • "The answer in the book is because he has excluded himself from the community. ... Therefore, the Lord would not have saved him." —Lyle (16:48)
  • "Yeah, dogma. ... It's just some dude's interpretation of what the Bible said. And they argue about it. ... Whoever won that argument, that's how we have to live by." —Steve (18:08)

5. Coping After Leaving the Fold

• Social & Emotional Adjustment:
  • Process of finding a new community, relationships, and meaning outside one’s former community is arduous—Steve says it took him a decade to feel comfortable in his own skin. (28:40)
• Helping Others:
  • Steve volunteers with organizations that assist ex-ultra Orthodox Jews to integrate into mainstream society, especially those with limited education or skills. (29:31)
  • Key challenge for many is the lack of secular education and cultural adjustment. (30:40, 31:30)
  • Harsh realities: Stories of people trapped by family situation, custody battles, lack of skills. (31:48, 32:19, 33:08)

Notable Quote:

“I spoke to a guy once... he still lives in the community. He has like five kids who go to yeshiva and his wife is still religious and he has no idea what the fuck to do. ... He's stuck in hell.” —Steve (30:40)

6. Absurdism as a Framework for Living

• Camus’ idea of Sisyphus: finding meaning in the act itself, even if repetitive or seemingly useless (34:18).
• Steve adopts simple absurdist exercises, such as waiting in line for hours and then walking away, to embrace the meaninglessness with humor. (35:38)
• Both discuss how finding small-scale purpose (mattering to a few people, scaling down ambitions) can bring meaning and stave off nihilism. (20:01, 21:28, 41:29)

Notable Quotes:

"I just thought it was hilarious, and I got a kick out of it. That made me happy." —Steve on the absurdist exercise (35:49)

“Nihilism is a scale issue ... you just have to matter in order to not go down a crazy, existential, nihilistic path.” —Lyle (20:01)

7. Current Life and Future Hopes

• Steve’s Present:
  • Moved from the upper Midwest to Colorado for the outdoors lifestyle (hiking, biking, skiing).
  • Struggles with romantic relationships; mostly flings, never married, wants more but finds it difficult. (22:50, 24:23)
  • Regularly meets new people through outdoor activities, trying to build a new social life. (25:04)
• Disconnection from Past Friends:
  • Hasn’t spoken to most childhood friends; they’re living traditional community lives with families—he feels unrecognizable to them now. (25:41)
• Uncertainty about the Future:
  • Aspires to either find a partner or, failing that, retire early and move to Eastern Europe for a simpler, affordable life. (42:58)

Notable Quotes:

“Just keep your head up and, you know, when times seem hard, just try to push through and, you know, a better day will come.” —Steve (44:17)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Steve on family pressure:
  “Every time they talk to me, they try to bring me back. ... I just got sick of it. I’m not living this lifestyle.” (05:08)
• On Jewish camps:
  “A lot of shit went down there… incidents where there’s, like, pedophiles roaming free over there. It’s horrible.” (08:24)
• Lyle on finding solace:
  “I think nihilism’s a scale issue…you just have to matter to someone or something outside yourself.” (20:01)
• On absurdism:
  “You have to imagine Sisyphus happy.” —Albert Camus, via Steve (34:18)
• On helping others leave ultra Orthodoxy:
  “They don’t train you for any skill. ... Just get your head in the Torah and the Bible and pretty much it.” (31:48)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:06] Introduction to Steve, his background, and upbringing
• [03:31] Details of ultra Orthodox community and schooling
• [05:08] Family repercussions after leaving
• [08:24] Negative experiences at ultra Orthodox summer camps
• [09:57] Transition to agnosticism, absurdism, and existential crisis
• [13:24] Discussion of Passover, traditions, and the “wicked child”
• [18:08] Critique of religious dogma and interpretation
• [20:01] On nihilism, scale, and mattering to others
• [29:31] Steve’s work helping others exit the ultra Orthodox world
• [34:18] Core explanation and exercises in absurdism
• [41:53] Are friends/family who remained happier?
• [42:58] Hopes for the future and plans

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Closing Tone & Reflections

Lyle reflects on the honest vulnerability of Steve’s experience, noting how Steve’s story feels like an unvarnished look at what life could become if one succumbs to nihilism but also finds small joys and meaning through odd, funny, or human acts. The conversation is raw but ultimately hopeful, advocating for coping mechanisms—whether philosophy, community, or personal “copecraft”—to weather the difficulties of leaving a strict faith and forging an authentic life.

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This episode offers a moving, real, and sometimes darkly comic look at questioning faith, the pain and possibility in leaving ultra Orthodox Judaism, the quest for meaning after dogma, and the resilience it takes to build a new identity one day at a time.

Transcript

[Lyle]

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[Steve]

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[Lyle]

Hello?

[Steve]

Yeah, you hear me? Guc?

[Lyle]

Yeah. What's your name, man?

[Steve]

Call me Steve.

[Lyle]

Steve. Steve. I'm cool with Steve today too. I think it's a good name. Can I tell the people what it is that you texted me? Is that all right?

[Steve]

Yeah, that's cool. That will give a good start off point you said.

[Lyle]

Hey Geck, I want to chat with you about growing up in ultra Orthodox Judaism. And now I have landed somewhere in between an absurdist and a nihilist. I left the fold years ago. Managed to make a life for myself on the other side. I was curious. I wanted to hit you up about this because. Well, a few things is, you know I grew up in somewhat let's call it Reform Judaism. But I was around a lot of, like, Orthodox Judaism. And then also now I'm, you know, living in New York. I'm around. I see a lot of Orthodox Judaism, and I find it. I find it fascinating because it. Yeah, it. It's always like. Seems to be, like, intentionally isolated from, like, the rest of the world. So I'm curious, like, how your experience growing up in that has been.

[Steve]

Yeah, so I actually did grow up in New York City. I grew up in a small sect. I'm not gonna be specific there, but yeah, I grew up ultra Orthodox. Chema Cola. Hasidic, if you want. Raised in the whole fold. My whole life went through this system. They call it yeshiva is like their type of school system. Yeah, I got my urban coordination. Once I was done the yeshiva system, then I guess in order to answer your question, it is very closed off. Like, it's pretty insulated. But the sect I grew up in is. Has more outreach. So, like, there's stopmer in, like, Williamsburg. Like, the guys wear the furry hats. They're the ones who are, like, cut off the outside world. They can't have cell phones. They have, like. They can't have access to the Internet. They. They're very strict. The one I was involved in is a little more relaxed, so I had a little bit more of, like, experience in the outside world. So I was able to, like, communicate with people on the other side even while I was in the set.

[Lyle]

So you weren't necessarily Hasidic?

[Steve]

They call it acidic. But, like, if you ask, like, a real, like, acidic sec. If they consider them acidic, they'll say no. Only real hosted people or something like that. So it's debatable. But yeah.

[Lyle]

Was it, like, serious enough that when you left, your family was unsupportive to the degree where they stopped talking to you?

[Steve]

Ish. There's other reasons why. So I still talk to my family. Like, I spent Thanksgiving with them. Most of them are so religious. I don't really talk to my parents that much. There's not much to say to them. It's just unfortunate. But they didn't, like, excommunicate me. They. Every time they talk to me, they try to bring me back. Like, that's their thing. Like, they think I'm a lost person. And I just try to, like, guide me back to the right path. And I just got sick of it. I'm like, this is not. I'm not living this lifestyle. So it just got really frustrating. I just gave up on that. And I just started, you know, just keeping myself more in touch with my siblings. And then, yeah, once in a while I'll see my parents maybe, like, once or twice a year.

[Lyle]

Oh, so you see your parents once or twice a year?

[Steve]

Yeah, I don't go to visit them. Like, I'll go in for, like, Hanukkah or Thanksgiving or something, and they'll be there. And I'll try to, like, avoid my dad because I don't want to talk to him. He doesn't standing or whatever. But yeah, it's very anxious for me when I do that. Like, I have to, like, mentally prepare myself before and after that happens. Like, it's just a lot for me.

[Lyle]

What. What's the deal with your. You got a brother or sister?

[Steve]

I got a bunch of siblings. Most of them are married with kids, so I have a lot of nieces and nephews. I would say most of them are, like, more modern Orthodox. They're not like, ultra Orthodox. They're kind of, like, chill about it. So I can more communicate with them than, like, my parents were still stuck in the same male ideas they brought us up with.

[Lyle]

Are you. Are you married? Do you have kids?

[Steve]

No, I am not married. I don't have kids.

[Lyle]

Are you the only one of the clan? Say again?

[Steve]

Not that I know. I could have kids.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Okay. All right, all right, all right. Yeah, you might have. I said. What is it called? I guess a bastard child.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Is the Yiddish word a mumser?

[Steve]

Mom's area.

[Lyle]

Moms are. I've heard that word before.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah, it's been out there.

[Lyle]

Do you speak Yiddish?

[Steve]

I do not fluently. So basically, like, growing up in, like, yeshiva, they want to, like, teach you Yiddish. They would expect that you already spoke it at home so you understand it. So then they would, like, teach you in school. You, like, read the Bible in Hebrew and then yell out the Yiddish translation over and over. It was like cult. Like, it was like you didn't even know what you're saying. But yeah, I did speak Yiddish, like, growing up. I can understand it, like, even German. Like, I can understand, like, high German. It's kind of weird, but when I try to talk German, like, the vocabulary and grammar is, like, totally off. But yeah.

[Lyle]

Did you. Do you also do, like, regular Jew stuff? Like, there's for. For those who are not Jewish, there's. Well, there's. There's Jewish summer camp. Although I guess religious summer camp is a general thing. And then for me, there was this thing called bbyo, which was like a youth Jewish Youth organization type of thing. Did you do any of that kind of stuff?

[Steve]

No. We wouldn't, like, really mingle with, like, the other Jewish organizations. Like, we had our own, like, summer camps, like, all boys summer camps. And those are, like, pretty up places. Interesting, if you ask me. Yeah, A lot of went down there, and they don't, like. That's what they say. They don't vet their staff very well. And there's incidents where there's, like, pedophiles and like, oh, Jesus, roaming free over there. It's. It's horrible. Yeah, I've had experiences there, and a lot of people I know had. It's. Yeah.

[Lyle]

Was it. Did you have any positive experiences there?

[Steve]

Not that I know of. No. I hated it.

[Lyle]

It's so. It's so interesting how, like, different. The experience of, like, Orthodox Judaism and Reform Judaism is because we're both Jews, but it's like, such a different fucking world by, like, a billion degrees.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. A lot of my friends now are, like, just like, reformed or non Jews or whatever, and they don't, like, I've been out of it so long, like, they don't believe me if I tell them, like, I grew up, like, ultra Orthodox or acidic in some small sect in New York City. And. Yeah. And they're like, oh, it's crazy. I've heard about it and like, I. You know, whatever. But, like, you don't seem like you're from there.

[Lyle]

Yeah. What's your life like now? Are you. Do you have any of it in you? Are you completely atheist? Agnostic.

[Steve]

Yeah, I'm agnostic. Nihilist. I would mostly categorize myself as an absurdist. You know, like Albert Camo.

[Lyle]

Sure.

[Steve]

The myth of Sisyphus. Yeah. So that really, like, I went through some rough times, and then I was, like, a philosophy major in my undergrad, and I was, like, reading that, and I'm like, first I had an existential crisis, and I was like, what the. Does everything mean? Like, everything's useless. I'm not going to heaven when I die or whatever. And all the. All the things I've done that doesn't count up. Maybe I'm not gonna go to heaven. But, like, I got. After a couple years of therapy, whatever, I calmed down about it, and I started, like, looking into, like, absurdism. Like, hey, this shit's awesome. Like, I can live by this.

[Lyle]

Yeah. That is a crazy exo. Okay, so when. How old were you when you realized that there was no heaven?

[Steve]

I would say my mid-20s somewhere in college when I Was just studying philosophy and my whole world just came crashing down. I was literally walking around with a dark cloud looming over my head. I was super depressed. I was not in a good place for years, but thank God I came out on the other side. I want to say thank God. Just thankfully.

[Lyle]

Well, I do. I believe I. I've talked about this a bunch of fucking times. But, like, I don't know. I. Look at God is just like an allegory to mean that which is beyond you or unknown to you.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, if. Like, if I pray, like, if I. Because here's the thing, like, list, like, tomorrow or today, a lot of people are gonna have random brain aneurysms and die, and there's no real reason why it's gonna happen to them and not me. Or it might happen to me. I don't know. But when. I guess when I'm praying to God, I'm. I don't. I guess it's just hope. It's just. It's like, I hope that. That I hope that these things that are out of my control. I don't think the prayers, like, go anywhere, but I guess it feels nice or something. Or like, when you say, like, I don't. Like, I don't know if I don't really. Like, I don't pray for myself, but, like. Or I guess sometimes I do. Yeah. But, like, if I pray to you. Like, if I pray to you, it's like, hey, man, I hope that you don't get hit by a car today. I have no control over it. I don't think the prayer is going anywhere, but I'm expressing to you that I hope you don't get hit by a car and that all of the things outside of your control go well. And not necessarily that I am sending an energy to a omnipotent force that is in control of those things. I don't believe in that. But, yeah, you know.

[Steve]

Yeah. Now I'm on the same level. I believe the universe is indifferent to us. It's just chaos. And, you know, we're just living here and most things are out of our control and might as well just enjoy the ride.

[Lyle]

But it's funny because, yeah, I look at, like, orthodox Judaism or I. I guess just all religions and all things where it's like, why are. Why are we doing this? Like, the certain rel. Like the certain traditions and whatnot. Like, if you, like. I don't know, were you, like, were you ever in Hebrew school? And you're like, why do we. There's a thing about this. It's the fucking. Dude, you know the four questions.

[Steve]

Oh, on Passover.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Okay. So I'm gonna try to explain this, and maybe you can help me fill in the gaps. But, like, Passover is a Jewish holiday where, I believe it is. Commemorates a time where, like, the Jews were slaves and God freed them and, like, sent a bunch of plagues down to their, like, captors and whatnot. Yeah, yeah, we were slaves in Egypt. And, like, there. There's a part of. So we have a Seder, which is, like, this. Dinner. Yeah, there's a dinner that kind of commemorates that. And there's a part of the Seder called the Four Questions where I. You. You reenact this thing of these, like, four children who are asking, why do we do this stuff?

[Steve]

Yeah, And.

[Lyle]

And the first three, there's. Okay, wait. Okay, there's a. There's.

[Steve]

Yeah, sorry. Two separate things. There's the four questions and there's the poor children. Two separate things.

[Lyle]

Okay, who are the four children? There's four different children.

[Steve]

Oh, I know what I said in Hebrew. How do you say English? So there's the smart one. There's the. The smart one who knows everything. There's a bad one who knows everything but goes against it. There's the tongue. I know how to say it in English, but they gotta look at the Hebrew names. But, yeah, then there's two. Like, one who doesn't know what's going on. He's just, like, landed there somehow. And then one of them. I forgot what the middle third one is. He also doesn't know what. Not just going on. But, yeah, it's basically supposed to be, like, I don't know, some type of metaphor for life. I don't know.

[Lyle]

But there's. Okay, so there's what? There's a smart child, the dumb child, the whatever. The wicked child. Okay. This is what's always gotten me. I'm sure I've said this on this stupid podcast. I've said this before, but this has always gotten to me, is, okay, the wicked child asks the question that essentially goes, yo, why do we, like, do all this stuff? Like, what's the point? You know?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

And do you know what the answer to the wicked child's question is?

[Steve]

It slipped my mind.

[Lyle]

If the wicked. The wicked child asks. So, wait, why do we do all this stuff? And the answer to the wicked child's question is, how dare you question this? If you were in Egypt, you would not have been saved.

[Steve]

That is rough.

[Lyle]

Do you remember? I'm not crazy, right? That's the answer to that.

[Steve]

Yeah, it sounds about right.

[Lyle]

Hold on. I'm like. I'm. Hold on. Jamie, look this up. I'm. Jamie, I'm looking it up. The wicked child. Passover.

[Steve]

It's been a while since I got a Seder.

[Lyle]

Yeah. The wicked child is like, why do you. Oh, yeah, okay. The wicked child says, why do you guys do this? And by saying, you guys, he's signaling his own alienation from, like, hey, why are you guys doing this stuff? As, like, he's signaling that he's not part of it. And then.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

The answer in the book is because he has excluded himself from the community. He had his. He has committed heresy, therefore, the Lord would not have saved him. See that shit. I just. That's. I don't know. That's. There's a lot of. You know, what is. I was. I'm in Brazil right now, and I was looking at the thing, the big statue of Jesus, and I was thinking about Jesus, and I was thinking about religion. And this is a lot. Like, Jesus said a lot of stuff that made sense. He was like, you know what? I love your neighbor. All that other stuff.

[Steve]

But.

[Lyle]

And then whatever. I'm sure Moses did a bunch of stuff to all the religions. They have, like, nice things about them, but then they're all like. It's so weird because, like, at the core of a lot of them is, like, these nice things, and then there's all these, like, traditions and fear and whatever that's surrounds them. Yeah, dogma. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good. Good way to put it. That surrounds them. And that's such a bummer to me. Could you imagine if it had gone differently? If it was like, we had all the nice parts of religion without the dogma?

[Steve]

I mean, in my opinion, it's like a lot of people, how they interpret it. Yeah. I don't know much about Christianity or Jesus, but, like, in Judaism, most of the stuff we follow just as, like, some dude's interpretation of what the Bible said. And they argue about it. There's something called the Talmud, and they argue about what it means. And whoever won that argument, that's how we have to live by. So it's like very like. What's the word? Not patriarch, but very dogmatic. But there's like another word. Like, what I say is the thing they have to follow or something. Yeah, I need a dogma.

[Lyle]

Yeah, it's. You know, it's funny. It's funny because that feels to Me, like, it feels like you can either, like, your parents, for example, or. Or whoever is like, you know, deeply ingrained in. In like, a fundamentalist interpretation of their religion is like. There's a. There's a deep comfort in that. But if you want to start asking yourself questions, you'll have an insane existential crisis.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah.

[Lyle]

And it'll take you to a place that's not. It's. It'll take you to a place that's just nowhere. That's just terrifying.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

But you will be able. But I think. I don't know. It's. And by the way, neither of those journeys is the correct one. You still, you know.

[Steve]

Right.

[Lyle]

Die. But I think if you're alive, it's. But you. I. I'm a fan. I think taking the journey is good.

[Steve]

Yeah. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. Like, a lot of times when I'm just thinking about it, I'm like, if I just stayed in the fold and never left and just lived, nigga, rest my life, I might have been happier. You know, get like, matched up with a girl and have kids and just live a life in ignorance and. Yeah, don't know better. Should have been great.

[Lyle]

But.

[Steve]

Yeah, coming out of the side stuff.

[Lyle]

But you know what, the thing about, like, the arranged marriage stuff, too, maybe not arranged marriage is a heavy thing for it. But, like, I had this thought the other day. I think nihilism is like a. It's like a scale issue, you know, like, yeah, of course you don't. Like, all the time I'm walking around like, I mean, I'm in Brazil, there's like 80 billion people, and I'm like, oh, yeah. And I'm like, I. Like, there's like, I don't matter, you know? But you don't. But that's. You don't have to mat. But you don't. But you don't. But it's a scale issue because you don't have to matter to the whole universe. You just have to matter in order to not go down, like, a crazy, existential, nihilistic path. You just have to matter to, like, something or someone outside of yourself. You know, that's where. That's where I think I've gotten. My nihilism's got out of control is because it's just a scale issue. It's like, you want. You want to feel like you matter on a grand scale of things, but that's. That's insane. You know, Nobody. You could be the most. You could be the most talked about person ever. And you don't matter on a scale issue. Yeah, but if you just. Whatever. If you just have, like, a friend who want. Who likes that you're not dead, or if you deliver mail and you got to deliver the mail to that one guy, like, you know, just. Just scale it down. Scale it down until you matter.

[Steve]

Yeah, now, I'm with you on that, but, I mean, I haven't had that feeling. Like, you said, you're in Brazil. 80 million people. Like, I used to travel a lot. I would go to Japan, Tokyo, on a whim and just go there alone for a couple days. I would just love getting lost there, not mattering at all, not understanding the language, just being a speck and just walking down the street and. I don't know, I just found a lot of comfort in that at the time. I can't really do that anymore because I have a job and responsibilities, but this was back when I was in college, and I just really enjoy doing that. But, yeah, I do. Like, if I matter to someone, like, sometimes I wonder, like, what if I did die? To my apartment, I live alone. Like, the neighbor will have to complain until it starts smelling outside or something. Like, I think our biggest fear, like, I'll just choke on a meeple or something and no one's gonna find me until my body's decaying or some.

[Lyle]

Yep. Yeah, I have. I have the. I have that thing. I have that same thought. Yeah, there's a lot I've had that same thought in my. In my living alone. That's a classic living alone thing where I'm like, shit, I. It would take a long time for someone to find out if I died.

[Steve]

Yeah, maybe I've worked. I'll notice. I don't know. People listen to your podcast. It's like, hey, Jack didn't come up with a podcast a long time. What's up with him?

[Lyle]

Yeah, I guess that would be the case. Yeah, that could be. That could be the case. Do you have a girl? Do you have a girlfriend or anything?

[Steve]

No, don't have a girlfriend. Never really been in a serious relationship. Like, I've only had, like, flings that lasted for a couple of months. Mostly when I was younger, I was just unstable. Like, I couldn't commit to anybody. Like, it was just tough. I was trying to find myself. And now that I'm older, you know, it's looking back. I mean, yeah, I'm trying to find someone to, you know, spend the rest of my life with, but it's tough when you get older.

[Lyle]

How can I ask how old you are?

[Steve]

Late 30s.

[Lyle]

Well, and why is. Why has it been getting tougher for you?

[Steve]

I don't know. I used to rely on, like, dating apps a lot, and when I was, like, living in New York, like, I would get, like, four or five days a night. Like, if I wanted to go on four or five days a night, I would just go on four or five days a night. Like, sometimes I'll go on a date and I forget the girl's name. I'll call her the girl earlier that night. I call her by her name, and they'll be like, what the. But now it's like, I'm in a much smaller city, and, like, I guess. I guess I gave up on dating apps a couple months ago. It's just dead. Like, I have not gotten any matches or anyone who actually wanted to, like, meet up. I have some conversations. It'll just fade away. So, yeah, I'm trying out a message. I'm trying to get more out there, meet people in person, things like that. But it's tough. You know, I'm getting old, and, you know, it's not like when you're in your 20s and, you know, it's easy to make friends, but it's not difficult. Very difficult, I would say, in the city I live in now, but the city I live in before was really hard. I was like, boss level making friends.

[Lyle]

Why wait? Okay, so the city you live in now is easier than the city you lived in before.

[Steve]

Oh, yeah.

[Lyle]

Why? What was. Where'd you live before?

[Steve]

I don't want to say the city because I know people are gonna listen to this and know who I am. I don't get doxed. Oh, city in the upper Midwest to say it's very cold there. It's just notoriously cold. And it's just people don't leave their house, like, six months out of the year sometimes. Can't really meet people. If you don't have your friends or, like, a girlfriend or a pet, you're gonna, like, spend, like, most of the winter alone.

[Lyle]

Why? What's your life like now?

[Steve]

Now I'm chilling. I just moved to Colorado a couple months ago. You know, I'm really out, really into, like, outdoorsy stuff. Hiking, camping, skiing, mountain biking, things like that. And, yeah, just find friends that way. I, you know, meet up with some random people on the trail sometimes, and we exchange numbers. Yeah, me to a group, and I, you know, start showing up to their rides or their hikes or camping trips. So, yeah, it's only been a couple of months here and so far so good.

[Lyle]

Pretty good. Pretty good. Hmm. Do you still talk to a lot of the friends that you had growing up?

[Steve]

Nah, I actually just met one a couple of weeks ago. I haven't seen the guy in like 10 years and we were just catching up. Turns out, like, he's not that religious either and we're just catching up and like, we're like, where are the rest of the guys who grew up with, like, where are they all now? And we came to see that they're all married with kids and, you know, we live in their life and I have nothing to do with that. Neither did he. So I don't really talk to them anymore. Like if they see me on the street, they won't recognize me. Like I don't look the same.

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[Lyle]

This is where mindset comes in.

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[Steve]

Pressure is coming down.

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[Lyle]

Watch the trailer on trainergames.com did you.

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[Steve]

Hmm.

[Lyle]

You know, I know that you kind of first initially wanted to talk about like the way you grew up, and I guess I want to get back to that for a second.

[Steve]

Sure.

[Lyle]

Were there like other aspects of the way that you grew up that you feel like, affected the way you exist now in your late 30s?

[Steve]

Oh, yeah. Every aspect of it. Like, it took me, I'm not gonna lie, it took me like 10 years to like find myself and like be happy with who I am. You know, it's really tough. They, they ingrain you pretty good, you know, off the get go, like, and you're in their school system and you're kind of like stuck in that loop unless you break out of it somehow. Yeah, I would. It's like cult like, like everything they tell you about, like there's organizations that help people get out of it. I only found out about that like after I was already transitioned into like absurdist or non religious. But I actually volunteer for them sometimes and try to help people out as well.

[Lyle]

Really?

[Steve]

Yeah. It's tough. Yeah.

[Lyle]

What does that tell me about that? What does that look like?

[Steve]

So, I mean, when you go and when you grow up in like an ultra orthodox or acidic sect, like, you're not going to college, you're not learning English, you're learning math, you're not learning anything. If you're lucky to have some program for like an hour a day or have a tutor, they'll teach you some of that. But I had to get a ged. I had to put myself through college. I had to go to grad school, payment. I'm still paying off student death from all that. And a lot of people just don't know who come out of the SEC and like, they don't know where to go. They don't have a degree, they have nothing. They can't even write their name in English. Some of them. Like, it's tough. So I just try to help Mal, give them guidance. I work in it, so I tell them to send people who are trying to like, get into the it like world, like software engineering, things like that. I try to guide them and, you know, put them on the right path.

[Lyle]

What would you say is the like, number one problem that those people who are trying to re enter the real world face.

[Steve]

Cultural differences? I mean, there's a few. It depends how deep you are in there. If you grew up in like a really, really strict sex, like you could have been married. When you're 16 and your wife was 16, you have kids and you're like 25. Like, I spoke to a guy once, he's, you know, right now he's an atheist, but he still lives in the community. He has like five kids who go to yeshiva and his wife is still religious and he has no idea what the fuck to do. He's like, I still have to pay for their school and like, I hate this whole thing, but I can't just. Like, this is the way my wife and the kids want to live, so I have to support them. He's stuck in house. Like, I've never felt so bad for someone in my life. Like, he was just in between a rock and a hard place. Like he had no way out. That's like the toughest one. Yeah. Other people is just integrating into society like without any skill, you know.

[Lyle]

Wow.

[Steve]

They don't. Yeah, they don't like train you for any skill. Like when you're in school or whatever. Like you're learning math, you're learning English or learning literature. They don't teach any of that. You just get your head in the Torah and the Bible and pretty much it.

[Lyle]

So this kid is pretty. So this kid's like more, more or less like groomed into like starting a family with another 16 year old. And then like he's. Once he like kind of gains his own consciousness. He's like, yo, what the am. I can't just leave these kids. Like, I can't just like. Yep, damn. That's. And then, and then also like the.

[Steve]

Yeah, dude.

[Lyle]

I also like the, the, the. The dissonance between like, you and like your wife who you have to. Who's like, you're fucking.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Supposed to be like your, your partner and doing all this stuff. Like, that's crazy too. There's fucking five of them.

[Steve]

Yeah. I don't know exactly how many kids they have, but yeah, like, I have, like, I don't, I don't know what to say. But they, they have the organization that, you know, I'm a part of now. Like, they have resources for people like him, you know, if they want to get divorced. Also, another big thing is like in some communities, if you. There's a whole New York. There's the New York Times. New Yorker wrote a massive article about this. It's like, if the mother leaves the religion, like, who. Where the children go or something. Basically, like, if you leave the religion, they're. The community has these lawyers that would make sure you'll Never see your children again.

[Lyle]

Whoa, really?

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah, they'll make. They're very well connected. They have powerful lawyers. There's a New Yorker article about it. I forgot the name of it. It was pretty, it was pretty famous when it came out. Probably like 2020. It was like talking about it like they, they all fight tooth and nail to get full custody of the kids to whichever parent stays religious.

[Lyle]

Wow. How is that even, like legal?

[Steve]

They have, they would, they're just, I don't know, they have like top lawyers and they'll like blackmail you and I don't know, it's crazy. That's not the sect I came from. The sect I came from. A little more chill. This is like worst case scenario.

[Lyle]

So what's your interpretation of absurdism? Because you hear stuff like. You hear stuff like this and you go, wow, that's blatantly unfair. Life is pretty crazy. There's no, no one's really. No one's really tipping the scales and whatnot.

[Steve]

Exactly.

[Lyle]

What's. I don't know if I. I actually don't know if I. People have talked to me about absurdism before, but I don't really have a good understanding of it.

[Steve]

I mean, the most simple explanation is from like Albert Cameron's book, the most mess up Sisyphus, where, you know, the massive Sisyphus. He has to push that boulder up the mountain for the rest of his life and it rolls down, he has to do it again. So like Albert Cam was like, we have to imagine that sis was happy doing that. He knows that he doesn't do the stupid every single day, but he doesn't care. He just, he's just happy to just roll the boulder up. He's smiling and he's having a good time doing it. It's hard to interpret that because, like, yeah, that sounds like it's rough. And you know, a lot of times life throws at you that you're not expecting and you don't know how to handle it. Even like me, like, I don't know how to handle something. Sometimes I can't even like look into absurdism. Like, what do I do? But you know, most cases I try to come out on top. Like, I don't know. One of those funny interpretations. I think I was reading in a book somewhere there was like some exercises where you can practice to be an absurdist. So one of the funny ones was like going in line for like a ticket or something. It looks like it's like a two hour long line. Just wait in line. The second it Gets your turn. Just walk away now. I was like, that sounds awesome. And I did it. I was, like, waiting in line, like, on, like, Apple Store for iPhone or some like, an hour, and I got this. My turn. I. I just walked away. I got a kick out of it. I was fun, and that was it.

[Lyle]

Yeah, tell me, tell me. Yeah. So in. In that. In that moment, how did it feel? Why did you enjoy doing that? What did you feel like you were.

[Steve]

It was like, why? Who the fuck would do that? Wait in line for an hour for no fucking reason and just walk away? I just thought it was hilarious, and I got a kick out of it. That made me happy.

[Lyle]

Did it make you feel empowered that you were like, you were. You were. You were. Like. You were. You were subverting all the expectations of. You were subverting so many powerful expectations in that moment?

[Steve]

Yeah. I mean, I might not have gotten the full extent of it because in my mind, I knew I was gonna do it. So, like, if you just, like, wait a line, I don't know, when the next iPhone or something comes out or PlayStation 6 or whatever, and you're like, I really want that PlayStation 6. You wait in line and then you get to the front and you just walk away. Maybe it's a different feeling. So. I don't know. I planned it out so I knew it was coming.

[Lyle]

What other sort of absurdist exercises have you done, like, that?

[Steve]

I. Not really exercises. I mean, it really comes to mind, but just, like, I just don't take things too seriously, you know, like, just in general. I try, like, to, you know. No, I have no problem, like, just laughing at myself and things like that. Other exercises? Not that come to mind. There are a few, though. But, yeah, if anyone wants to, like, really get into absurdism, I would say just read, like, the Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camo or any of his other book. He has some good books.

[Lyle]

Do you.

[Steve]

They're pretty short. They're easy to read.

[Lyle]

Do you feel like Sisyphus sometimes? Like, in what. In what aspects of your life do you feel the most like you're just rolling a boulder up a hill?

[Steve]

I mean, every day, man, like, I'm on the grind. I'm working. I'm like, you know, what if I never meet someone and never, you know, get married or have kids or whatever, and, like, I'm just gonna die one day, and all my money just. I don't know. I'll probably give it to my family and my nieces and nephews, and I'm like, what's the point of all this? Like, why am I doing this now? Just to, like, move on to wherever the we go when we die.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Steve]

So that's what it feels like every day. Wake up, same fucking shit every day. Some days it's not. I guess I'll take a day off for the weekends. I'll go do outdoorsy stuff, which I really enjoy. So those days are, you know, a little.

[Lyle]

But don't you. Don't you. But don't you scheme? Because my. Here's the thing. I scheme?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Like, when I. When I. When I notice that I am falling into some kind of Sisyphean thing, I'll scheme. I still have. I. I guess, you know, I don't. I still have hope that I can escape my Sisyphean cycles via various schemes. I still believe in that. Do you. Have you lost all belief?

[Steve]

Example. Can you give me an example of a scheme?

[Lyle]

Okay. Yeah, I can give you an example of a scheme. And we've started like. Like, like with dating, for example. Yeah, I'm like. I'm like, if I get super ripped, it'll be easier. So I'll scheme to do that, but then also I'll fail to do that as well. Oh. Like doing, like. Like doing work. Like doing work or whatnot. I'm like, okay. Every day I feel like I'm in, like, fight or flight mode to, like, get work done. I'm. If I'll scheme to come up with a better system to get my work done so that it's done ahead of time instead of like, you know, feeling like I'm in fight or flight all the time. Yeah. Right. So, like, I don't know. And like, I'm. By the way, the. But the funny thing is the schemes, the scheming in and of itself is Sisyphean, because I've been talking. This is. You know, I do this every year.

[Steve]

Yeah. Like, the scheme is also just a temporary fix. It's like, it's gonna. Whatever is chasing you, whatever, fight or flight, it's gonna catch up to you again until you come with another scheme.

[Lyle]

See, I disagree with you, though. I disagree with you because I still have. Well, no, I disagree with you out of. Well, I think I disagree with you. Well, okay, let me. I have a few things is. And listen, some of this could just be cope, but I don't. I don't think cope is ultimately a bad. I don't think cope is a bad thing. No, I kind. I think that the world shapes itself around the way you view it, and I've felt that deeply in practice. So when I am scheming and I'm feeling like I have some hope and I'm like, you know, I don't have to be in fight or flight all the time. I don't have to be in nihilistic mode all the time. I don't have my life doesn't have to always look like this. Like, life doesn't always have to look like this big chore Sisyphean thing. I find that I, I'm like, I act more productively and then that leads me towards feeling like life is not a big crazy Sisyphean task. But then when I'm overtaken by nihilism and I'm like there's no hope or whatever, then I just know. I, I. You find what you look. That's like what manifestation means to me is like, you find, you find what you, what you look for or what you believe to be true ends up being true in some way. So I guess that's my retort. But I'm sure it gets hard. I'm sure it gets harder the more times you go around the sun with it.

[Steve]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, just take it one day at a time is how I do it. Like, you know, every day, go to bed, wake up hoping it'll be a better day, but usually not. It's just the same, Same grind, same thing over and over.

[Lyle]

Are the. Okay, let me ask you this. The people who stayed and they got married and did a bunch, all that crap. Like the people, you know, like your friends.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Are they happy? How do they feel?

[Steve]

I haven't really had a heart to heart with anyone. I would say the closest is probably my siblings. I mean, they're. I, they're. I would say they're happier than me for sure, but they're living in more ignorance. They refuse to peek over the wall, you know, see what's on the other side there. But yeah, they're definitely happier than me. They have their families and everything. And there's me. She's got myself.

[Lyle]

Interesting.

[Steve]

Yeah. They got their own problems though, you know, Cost a lot of money raising kids these days.

[Lyle]

Yeah, you got to pick your poison. That's what I've, I think that's what I've learned is you got to pick your poison, you commit to something.

[Steve]

Yeah, I haven't really committed to anything. I'm just, you know, trying to live through life and, you know, have my best time here and that's it.

[Lyle]

Where do you Want to. What do you want to do next with it? What's. What's. Well, okay, before we go, what's next for you, do you think?

[Steve]

Oh, man. I mean, I just moved here, so this was, like, a big step for me. I was basically the city I was living in before I was there for a really long time, and I feel like I was an exile there. So getting out of that was like, my biggest breakthrough. Next thing, I don't know. I mean, hopefully, maybe I'll, you know, meet someone I'll get along with and spend my life with them. But my hope. But if that doesn't happen, then my backup plan is retire early, move to Eastern Europe, and live my life there.

[Lyle]

Where in Eastern Europe?

[Steve]

I don't know. I haven't decided on. Oh, yeah. Somewhere where my dollar will carry me a lot stronger than it would here. Maybe like Romania, Bulgaria.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Steve]

I can retire early and just live.

[Lyle]

Comfortably, you know, it's not. It's not the worst. Plan B. It's good to have a plan. It helps you sleep at night.

[Steve]

Yeah, exactly. So that's what keeps me going right now.

[Lyle]

What'd you say your name was?

[Steve]

We said Steve. Right?

[Lyle]

Yeah, Steve. I'm glad we got to talk, Steve. Hmm.

[Steve]

Yeah. Great talking to you.

[Lyle]

Was there anything else about any of the stuff that you text to me or anything at all in the entire universe that you wanted to say to the people or talk about or. Or anything before we go?

[Steve]

Yeah, just keep your head up and, you know, when times seem hard, just try to push through and, you know, a better day will come.

[Lyle]

Beautiful. Have a good rest of your life, Steve.

[Steve]

Yeah, thank you. Take care, Geck.

[Lyle]

Take care, man.

[Steve]

Yep. Bye.

[Lyle]

I liked Steve. Although talking to Steve. Talking to Steve felt like. It felt like. It felt like looking at what my life might be like in 10 years if I continue to succumb to nihilism. That's why I still have cope. That's why I still gotta have cope. I like Steve. I hope he finds some cope. I guess he has found some cope. I love that story about waiting in line for two hours to get the iPhone. I think that's so funny. I think that that's. There's a lot that I like. I think that's what. I think that that's. There's something punk rock about that. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm a fan of that.

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[Lyle]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Advertiser]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Steve]

Pressure is coming down.

[LG Gram Advertiser]

Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th.

[Lyle]

Watch the trailer on trainer games.com did.

[LG Gram Advertiser]

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[Lyle]

Hey, what's up everyone? How's it going? I'm gonna make this a little hybrid Phone call Geck Mail episode Because on last episode's Geck Mail or last the last Geck Mail episode, I had some emails that I still wanted to read that I didn't get a chance to read. So I figured I'd spend the rest of this episode reading them. If you want to send an episode, if you want to send an email to the podcast for me to maybe read it on the air, you can send it to therapygeckomail.com no shit. Therapy. I don't know why I don't know how to talk today. Therapy gecko mail gmail.com and I'm gonna just read some emails and we'll hang out. I think this episode's getting released on Christmas Eve, so hopefully. I don't know. I don't know. Are people gonna. I don't know if people will listen to this. People are. Do people usually do stuff on Christmas Eve? Right? What are you guys doing? This is why I hate holidays. I. It's. It's. It's more. It always feels like a. Unless if you're like a. Like a young, hot, cool person. This always feels like a. Like. Oh, crap. Now I gotta figure out what I have to do to celebrate. I'm gonna stop being a fucking loser for a second. Okay, this is from Kaya. Subject line Reject the digital era or succumb to evolution. Hello, Lyle. I hope you are well, thank you. Kaya My conundrum is whether to abstain from the use of technology and social media or to dive in and evolve with this technological era. My relationship with tech and social media goes in cycles. I start being passionate about rejecting screens and toxic media standards, being determined about pursuing painting and being in nature, then falling into pockets of anxiety and depression, returning to doom scrolling and frying my brain because I have lost the motivation to do anything and I don't want to go outside because it's cold. I live in England so it's always cold. I don't own a TV in an attempt to rebel against laziness, yet I'm a hypocrite because I use a laptop instead to watch the same five shows on repeat. I do the same thing. I ended up just buying a TV but I didn't have a TV for a while cuz I thought I was whatever, too cool for a TV and then I was just laptopping it instead. I also don't watch the news which is great, so I'm not depressed with how up the world is, but I also feel dumb as because I have no idea what's going on in the world. I want to live my life surrounded by positivity in nature, not glued to a screen and actually exist in what remains of the physical world. Trouble is I have problems forming relationships with people due to social anxiety, so I'm already quite isolated and suffer with loneliness. I fear the more I reject evolution, the less connected I will be and the more lonely I will feel. Technology is also so ingrained into everyday human life that it would be almost impossible to live without it. After being so reliant on it, banking, shopping, travel work, etc I feel the pros and the cons are even and I am left not knowing what path to follow. Should I reject the tech and try to live the few years I have on this planet how I want to or suck it up, evolve and learn to live with it? Kaya Interesting. Well I don't. Here's the thing, you're drawing to extremes and I'm no master of this because I'm addicted to fucking technology and I hate it. I really do. I really hate how addicted I've become to like watching reels and stuff. I never choose to do it. Fucking Instagram. I don't know if this has happened to you guys. Instagram did this asshole thing where they put the DMS right? The DMS used to be on the right upper right hand side on Instagram. So you swipe to the right. And you're in your DMs. And social media has become this thing of like interacting with a lot of people who are. But like all this short form shit. But at least in the DMs, it's like, okay, I'm gonna be interacting with another human being directly somehow. So now instead, when I swipe right instinctively to go to my DMs, it takes me to the fucking reels. And it did that on purpose. That's what pisses me off. It did that on purpose. It knew that my muscle memory would swipe right to go to the DMs and instead be like, yo, you wanted to talk to an actual person. No, you will get the short form content that makes us the most money. And it's like, this is such an asshole. So, yeah, so listen, you're dealing. I say this to say, yet you're dealing with companies that want to make you addicted to this. Like it's in their best interest. And they won. They won globally. It's not even like a rich. It's like, it's crazy. It's like, like people who, like people on the streets have cell phones. People in third world countries have cell phones. Like, everyone has it. It's crazy how much they like just one. You know, I'm on a rant. Back to your conundrum. Back to your conundrum. You don't have to be all or nothing. You could always spend some time on the screen and some time off of the screen. I'll say this, try not try to be intentional. I love playing video games is great. I have no regrets about playing video games. So, like, if I spend screen time that I chose, I'm pretty happy with it. Like some people like watching movies or TV shows. As long as you're choosing it right. Because it's a big difference between choosing to play a video game, choosing to watch a movie and. And finding yourself accidentally scrolling through reels for two hours. So at least whatever you do, that's what I'll say. That's my kind of. By the way, I don't do. I'm a hypocrite. I don't know why I'm giving you advice, but this is. Any advice I give is just what I. Any advice I give is just like what I do. If I were the idealized version of myself. But I would say, Kaya, as long as you're being intentional about whatever you're doing. So if you're using technology to connect with other people, as long as you're doing it intentionally or if you're not using it, you're doing it intentionally. But try not to get like sucked into the. Try not to let the tech use you, I would say. And then if you successfully figure out how to do that, please let me know how you did it because I'm. I'm not good at doing that at all. Okay, let's see. I get a lot of spam emails. What's the sp. This one is the. The rudest thing you can do on a flight. What the is this? I don't care about this. All right? This is from Jackson. Subject line. I commute three hours to work and I'm happy. Hello Gecko, I'm Jackson and I now commute three hours to work and three hours home. It sounds crazy, but let me explain that. That sounds really crazy. Yeah. My fiance and I used to live in Philly where both of our jobs were. We Both graduated in 2024 and have pretty significant student debt. She is a medical lab scientist and I am an aerospace engineer. With how expensive Philly is, we were both struggling to save money every month. Her parents live in Harrisburg and they offered to let us move in to save some money and after some deliberation, we agreed. My relationship with my own family is long and complex. But tldr there was abuse, neglect, lying, and I no longer speak to my father and stepmother. My real mother left when I was three, so she's out of the question too. Anyway, the point of this email is here's a breakdown of my commute. My fiance's father drives me to the train station at 4:30 in the morning. He wakes up around then anyway for his own job. Then I take a two and a half hour train to a stop near my work. Then I hop on a foldable bike and ride about 20 minutes to work. After work, I ride my bike to a different station 15 minutes nearby, take a train to 30th Street Station in Philly, which is about 20 minutes. And then I take a train to Harrisburg and get back around 7:30pm that sucks. You really can't find. Hold on. Okay, listen, I used to live in Philadelphia. You can't find a shitty. You can't like dude move dude live in like north Philly. Like live live with like roommates in South Philly. Philly is. You're okay. Wait, you're an Aeros. Hold on, bro. This doesn't make any sense to me. You're a Met, you're an aerospace engineer and your wife is a medical lab scientist. Get like, get, like roommates. Get, like, four roommates. This is a horrible situation. Okay, hold on. You said that you really like doing this, so I'm gonna keep going. If you think I'm insane, let me explain. I work remotely two times a week, and then three times the next week. It alternates. I never have to make the commute two days in a row so I can rest up and sleep in the days I work from home. That doesn't make me feel like this is less insane. I only just started doing this, and it hasn't felt terrible. It will, but I am sure the burnout will ensue. Thankfully, it is only a temporary thing. I've decided to stay at my job because I got extremely lucky to land it right outside of college, and there isn't much opportunity in Harrisburg for me. My manager and workplus. My manager and workplace environment is also so chill and easy. I struck gold with it. It makes the commute worth it. Dude, just get roommates, okay? I love having the free time to read and write music because they're my main hobbies anyway. I still have plenty of time with my fiance and her family. I have time to do hobby. Thanks for letting me explain my crazy schedule and why I'm happy with it. I loved seeing you in Philly last year. You said you liked my green shirt. Jackson, Jackson. You seem like a genuine Jack Jackson. Jackson is just one of those guys, dude. Jackson's just one of those guys that, like. Jackson's the kind of guy where, like, he could. Someone could point a gun at him and be like, give me your wallet. And he's like, oh, my wallet. Like, this wallet. Right? Yeah, of course. Of course you can have my wallet. That came out wrong. How do I say this? Jackson's the kind of guy we're just like. He's just a la. Like, he's a sweet guy where the toy. You seem like the toils of the universe don't get you down. That's the vibe I get from you. Jackson, Jackson, Jackson. Don't keep doing this. You're one of those, you know, those people that, like, TLC will cover where it's like, he has no pain. He is. He doesn't have the nerve endings in his arm that make him feel pain. That's. That's you with your entire life, I think. But just because you don't. And by the way, that's just like with the guy who, you know, lets people punch him in the face for money because he doesn't have the nerve endings. You Know, just because you have it doesn't mean you got to take advantage of it. So I don't know, Jackson, this is too. This is. You have. You have to have some kind of. You have to have the life. Nerve endings to show you when things are shitty. Just get roommates, man. Phil, it's. Phil, it's. Go. You're an aerospace engineer. Like, if you really want to save money, just live with roommates in North Philadelphia and take the Broad street line to wherever the fuck you're going, but don't do this. This is a terrible idea, Jackson. I'm obsessed with how terrible of an idea this is. Yeah, of course you're not printout. You just started doing it. Jackson, give me a call. I want to directly tell you how terrible of an idea I think this is. Yes. Jackson, if you can hear me, please give me a call on the podcast sometime so I can directly tell you a hundred ideas I have of how you can make your life better. What else are you doing with your. I'm curious what else you're doing with your life that you're putting up with. I'm trying to think of things. Do you eat food? Do. Are you just like. I don't eat food. I don't need it. I don't. I know you think. I know you think I'm crazy for not eating food and drinking water, but let me explain. If I don't eat food and drink water, I'll save a little bit of money and I don't really need it. I found that my body can just subsist off of air. I need to know more about your life, Jackson. Call me on. Call me on the real podcast. Okay? Let's take. Let's talk. Let's do one or maybe two of these things. Okay? This is from Alexander. A fix for your name being called out at Starbucks. Hey, Geck, I saw you in St. Louis in 2023. Fuck yeah. You signed Geck on a T shirt on the back of my fiance because we didn't have a writing space to write Geck on a shirt. You were also my Facebook profile picture for a while. Thanks for being a part of my life in some way. Thank you, Alex. These are really nice. I'm. I feel really lucky, man. I really do. I. Man, this guy Alex, that, I don't know is really nice to me. I appreciate that. I really don't mean that. I don't know why. I know it sounds like I'm being, like, fucking sarcastic, but I'm not. I feel. It feels nice thank you, Alex. Anyways, I'm listening to a podcast episode, and you're currently ranting about having to give personal info to a corporation and don't want your name to be called out when they finish your order. I use Optimus prime or Megatron when I'm at a restaurant where they call out your name because I find it pretty funny. And you can do whatever you want. I do that. I usually say, like, a fake name. I'll say, like, Kyle. Because if. If I go to, like, a Starbucks or something, and they're like, what's your name? And I go, lyle, they go, what? But if I just say Kyle, they don't say, what? So it speeds up the process if I do Optimus. Actually, I feel like I don't like Alex. I think what. I think saying Megatron is. It's fun, but I don't like it because it makes the interaction longer. And I'm just trying to shorten. I'm trying to make the interaction as fluid as possible. And if I say Megatron, they might, like, give me a stupid look or be like, really? Or, like, I also. I don't want to force these people to say Megatron. You know, Like, I've. That's like. That feels like an embarrassment ritual or that feels like a hazing thing. I don't want to haze the Starbucks workers, man. I want to make their job easy. I want to make my experience with Starbucks easy. Just, you know, I'm not gonna force some. Someone working at Starbucks to yell Megatron. I don't know. Maybe it's. Maybe they like it. I don't know. I don't know how your experience has been. Okay, I'll do one more. I make music for my girlfriend, and that's it. This is from Samuel. I make music for my girlfriend. Sometimes I pretend my girlfriend is 1 million people, and it makes me feel famous. She doesn't like all my songs, but I made her cry twice. It's really fulfilling. I want to make music for my friends, but I need to get better first. Geck bless. That's the whole email. That's one of the greatest emails that have been sent in this show. And it goes to show that you don't need the email. Doesn't need to be long to be. To be great. I love this. Thank you. Thank you so much for sending this. Sam. This is. You sent this on October 27th. Sorry for just getting around to it now, but that was a fantastic email. I told you I said it before. I said it earlier with Steve Nihilism's a scale issue, man. All you need is one fucking person to. To acknowledge that you exist. That's all you need. One thing. If you. If you can find one thing outside of yourself, one person or thing that can acknowledge that you exist, you can pull yourself out of nihilism. So I appreciate Sam making music for just his girlfriend and feeling as though she's a million people. This is so beautiful. I'm gonna read this. Can I read this again? Is everyone okay? Is everyone alright? If I read this email again before we go, I'll just read it one more time. It's really beautiful email. I make music for my girlfriend and that's it. Sometimes I pretend my girlfriend is 1 million people and it makes me feel famous. She doesn't like all my songs, but I made her cry twice. It's really fulfilling. I want to make music for my friends, but I'll need to get better first. That's a beautiful email. Thank you, Sam. I hope I. I hope I'd. I'd listen. I'd like to hear your music someday. I would love to hear your music, Sam. Send me another. If you hear this somehow, send me an email. I want to hear your music. Because if, if you. If you write lyrics the way you write emails, I want to hear this music. I'm obsessed with this email. This is the best email I. And this is the best email I've ever gotten in the history of Geck mail. I'll say it. I know we've gotten emails that it's like, oh, it's a big crazy story and something. And I, I like those too. But I. There's something about this is. Makes me really happy. I enjoy this. Thank you, Samuel. That was Geck mail. I hope you guys enjoyed. Enjoyed this. I hope that you. You enjoyed the podcast and enjoyed being here. I'm excited. It's Happy New Year. This is the last podcast of 2025. Oh, shit. This is the last fucking episode of this of 2025. Oh, fuck. All right. I should say. I should say something, right? Thanks for listening to this show all year. Thanks for continuing to be on this journey with me. It's been five and a half years. Next June, it'll be six fucking years of being a gecko. That's crazy. Thanks for being on this journey with me. I did not. I really didn't think this would last that long. And I'm so honored to keep getting phone calls and emails and keep being able to engage with people and keep getting to do shit like go to Iraq or Tijuana or Japan or the gathering of the Juggalos and, and, and make these documentaries and go on tour again. And it's awesome. I can't thank you guys enough for allowing me to continue to do all this stuff. So thank you guys very much for being part of this Gecko community. This, this, this crazy weird thing that continues to go. I'll keep the train running as long as you guys want to be on it. And Geck bless. Happy New Year. See. See you. See you next episode. I was gonna say see you next year, but I don't like when people say that. But it is, I guess, true. All right, see you next year. Thank you. Hello folks, it's Lyle here. That's the end of this episode. But get this, I'm releasing a bonus episode this week. That's right, an entire extra hour of the podcast that you can listen to by becoming a premium member of Therapy gecko over at therapygecko.supercast.com Supercast subscribers get access to bonus episodes. They get a completely ad free podcast feed of the regular show. They get recordings from my live shows members only streams and they help support my ability to continue doing this podcast. So here's a clip from this week's members only bonus episode.

[Steve]

She was like not treating it right and stuff. So I was like, oh yeah, you know, I'll rescue this parrot. And long story short, I've got a parrot now and she's. Boy, they're, they're a lot of work. But my wife is, she's good with pets, so she just handles it mostly.

[Lyle]

So you rescued a pirate and then subsequently put it in a also shitty situation. If you want to hear this full conversation, you can sign up to become a premium [e-mail] or find the link in the episode description. That's Therapygecko Supercast. All right. I have nothing else to say.

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[Lyle]

This is where mindset comes in.

[Trainer Games Advertiser]

Someone will be eliminated.

[Steve]

Pressure is coming down.

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Trainer Games on Prime Video January 8th.

[Lyle]

Watch the trailer on trainergames.com did you know?

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Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025, thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrade upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Lyle]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.