“I LIVE ON A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION”

Summary

Therapy Gecko – Episode: “I LIVE ON A NATIVE AMERICAN RESERVATION”

Podcast: Therapy Gecko (iHeartPodcasts)
Date: January 7, 2026
Host: Lyle (Geck)

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Overview

This episode centers on two rich, reflective conversations with Native American callers, both exploring personal identity, cultural heritage, and the complexities of life on and off of reservations. The main portion is an in-depth discussion with Chris Barney, a Navajo sheep and goat herder, poet, filmmaker, and seed seller, who shares his lived experience on the reservation—as well as his take on tribal government, cultural preservation, spirituality, and the online world. A subsequent call from Nicole, a mixed-heritage Native American, reflects on family assimilation and the struggle to reclaim cultural identity. The episode's tone is curious, meandering, and empathetic, leaning into the personal details that illuminate broader issues of tradition, modernity, and belonging.

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Key Conversation with Chris Barney

(Begins around 01:49)

Introduction and Background

• Chris Barney immediately establishes his Navajo heritage, offering his name, clans, and marking his origin as “rough rock” (02:14).

  “I told you who I am, my name, my four clans and where I'm from.” (02:14, Chris)

• Chris currently lives and farms on the Navajo Nation in northeastern Arizona.

• He is raising two nephews (18 and 14) as his own.

Culture and Change

• Chris describes the current state of “transition” on the reservation, citing the tension between holding on to traditional ways—language, clan systems, ceremonies—and the “outside” pressures of Westernization, technology, and English dominance. Younger generations especially feel this pull.

  “We're kind of in a moment, a transition in the culture. Like, we're still trying to hold on to our traditional ways, our language and culture, but … the influence from the outside world is drawing a lot of our people away, especially our young people.” (03:26, Chris)

• Language is a key identifier, with Chris lamenting that many young Navajo are not fluent, though some families make proactive efforts at cultural retention.

Daily Life & Livelihood

• Chris herds sheep and goats even during the call (06:06), highlighting how traditional lifeways persist.
• He describes his background in filmmaking and poetry, and his experiences working on small films, writing, and helping edit others’ screenplays.
• Employment on the reservation is diverse: tribal government administration, maintenance, teaching, medical professions, energy sector jobs, and “medicine people” conducting community healing. Some leave for education/work, but many return.

Spiritual & Historical Roots

• Chris shares Navajo creation stories: the people (the Diné) emerged from the earth through several worlds until arriving at this one, with their homeland defined by four sacred mountains.

  “We have our origins here on this land. Our creation stories say we came out of the earth, and from there we journeyed through several worlds into this one…” (09:15, Chris)

• Turtle Island is mentioned as a traditional Native American name for the continent (12:02).

Relationship to the US Government

• Chris thoughtfully recounts the US government’s historical treatment of the Navajo:

  • The “Long Walk” (forced relocation) to Fort Sumner (1864–8)—an event Chris likens to the Holocaust.
  • After four years, a peace treaty was signed (1868), establishing the basis for federal responsibility and funding today.
  • Much controversy exists over tribal government structure and spending, with Chris criticizing corruption, high salaries for officials, and a lack of benefits for everyday people.
  • Tribal governance mirrors US structures: there’s a president, council, three branches, and local chapters; representation in federal and state matters remains a dynamic process.

  “The tribal officials mostly spend it among themselves. They pay themselves millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands in salary… There's been a lot of controversy with him and his leadership, or lack thereof.” (15:51, Chris)

Community, Privacy, and Social Media

• Despite familial ties and being “surrounded by relatives,” Chris prefers a private life, somewhat distanced from neighbors due to local jealousy and drama.

  “The neighbors around me… get territorial and envious… so I just ignore them.” (22:38, Chris)

• Instead, Chris is highly active online, with thousands of Instagram and Facebook followers—he enjoys connecting virtually and sees himself almost as a “sheep herder influencer.”

• Chris sells drought-tolerant seeds (corn, beans, squash, etc.), trading via social media, often bartering for food or objects:

  “I barter and trade for things, too… People give me food, and we trade seeds with other people who are farmers and gardeners from all over the world.” (36:46, Chris)

On Teaching and Westernization

• Chris imparts knowledge to his nephews by integrating cultural lessons into daily life: teaching them plant, animal, and weather names in Navajo, sharing rituals, and connecting them to the land and traditional offerings.

  “You teach them. This is what this plant is. This is the name of this lizard… that's how I was raised.” (25:26, Chris)

• Both he and his nephews engage with modern media (e.g., Assassin's Creed, Zelda), acknowledging the blending of cultures.

• Chris embraces the paradox: “Animals… love you unconditionally. People are complicated.” (24:24, Chris)

Spiritual Perspective

• Chris’s view on death and the afterlife:

  “There’s no sadness, there’s no grief, there’s no pain [in the spirit world]. It's just bliss. You're free. It's better than the Christian heaven.” (21:04, Chris)

Parting Message

• Chris concludes with a call for unity and a return to spiritual harmony:

  “We're in a period of great transition on this Earth and we all need to come together… to remember who we are as human beings…” (29:53, Chris)

  “May everything become beautiful again… Everything will be restored in harmony.” (31:32, Chris)

Social & Economic Life

• Chris details his seed-selling efforts, leveraging Facebook/Instagram as his primary storefronts.
• He is open to bartering—crystals, obsidian, even rare Pokémon cards for seeds, reinforcing community and global connections.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On spirituality and land:

  “Our boundaries to our homeland is four sacred mountains, and we stay within those four sacred mountains, where we're supposed to, anyway.” (10:44, Chris)

• On American government history:

  “In 1864…the federal government came and relocated and tried to take at least 9,000 Navajos from our homeland when they marched them into New Mexico to a place called Fort Sumner and held them at gunpoint for four years.” (12:29, Chris)

• On privacy vs connection:

  “I live a pretty private life. … The neighbors around me, … get territorial and envious… I just ignore them.” (22:38, Chris)

Memorable Segment

• Chris discussing his barter/trading system (36:46+).
• Geck reacting, tickled by the idea of an “Instagram general store,” inciting listeners to hit Chris up with quirky trades.

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Conversation with Nicole

(44:09)

Experience of Assimilation & Identity

• Nicole’s background: father is half Native American, half Puerto Rican; mother is white. Nicole presents as white, and her family lost much cultural connection through federal assimilation policies and the legacy of boarding schools.

  “My dad's family was super whitewashed because his mom, who is native, she was federally recognized as white … during the time they were sending Indian children to boarding school… they were like, oh no, she's white, she doesn't need to go…” (44:36 & 48:43, Nicole)

• Nicole reflects on feeling "invisible" as Native due to appearance and government erasure:

  “Now it's so cool to be different. I think back then it was like... it used to be bad to be different.” (49:38, Nicole)

• Her sister teaches at a reservation school in Arizona—echoes of Chris’s earlier point that a resurgence in language and culture is underway, though resources are stretched thin.

Personal Aspiration and Paradox

• Nicole shares her own artistic ambitions versus her struggle to make a living—expressing a now-common paradox for her generation:

  “At the end of the day, I can't make art if I don't have money, but I can't make money if I don't have time to create.” (58:14, Nicole)

• Geck and Nicole together riff on the concept of "schemes"—making ends meet, sharing rent, and balancing fulfillment and financial security.

  “The goal is to, like, be able to spend as much time, like, and energy doing the things you really want to do. And then, yeah, paradoxically, yes, you need money to do them.” (59:44, Geck)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:49 – Chris Barney introduces himself, his clans, and begins conversation
• 03:26 – On cultural transition, language, and youth
• 06:06 – Chris is herding sheep during the call
• 08:07 – Employment and diverse livelihoods on the reservation
• 13:55 – Treaty history, government relationships, and resource exploitation
• 15:51 – Controversy and corruption in tribal leadership
• 17:30 – Structure of tribal vs state/federal government
• 22:12 – On community, privacy, and social media
• 25:26 – How Chris teaches his nephews Navajo culture
• 29:30 – Chris’s parting message: Unity, harmony, and spirituality
• 33:37 – Chris explains his seed-selling business and bartering
• 44:09 – Nicole’s call begins; her background and experience of assimilation
• 48:43 – Impact of boarding schools, family’s denial of heritage, search for identity
• 52:47 – Nicole’s sister teaching on a reservation; language resurgence
• 54:08 – Nicole and Geck discuss fulfillment vs earning a living

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Episode Takeaways

Core Themes

• Transition and Tension: The Navajo, and other Native communities, are at a crossroads—struggling to maintain traditional systems and knowledge even as economic, political, and technological change exerts pressure.
• History and Healing: Chris’s stories reflect collective trauma from colonization, forced relocation, and cultural erasure, but also offer a vision of healing and renewal through reconnection with land, spirit, and tradition.
• Modernity: Both Chris and Nicole are products of two worlds—deeply rooted in indigenous identities but also navigating (and leveraging) Western technology, social media, gaming, and commerce.
• Community, Privacy, and Online Connection: For Chris, online community (and animals) are preferable to often-fraught local human relationships. This tension reflects a larger social dynamic in rural and indigenous communities.
• Survival and Adaptation: Chris’s barter seed business and Nicole’s search for grants/goals both symbolize creative survival in a cash-driven world.
• Longing for Belonging: Nicole’s narrative especially highlights what is lost—and what is being reclaimed—when assimilation policies push people to disavow ancestral identity.

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Notable, Relatable, and Humorous Moments

• Geck finding delight: in the idea of a sheep herder Instagram influencer and the analog/vibe-based seed trading system.
• Chris, deadpan: “Well, I call them my children… even though I eat them sometimes.” (23:57)
• Nicole on the “single tax”: playfully riffing on the economic calculus of love, rent, and the oldest “scheme” in the book.
• Chris, on privacy and neighbors: “People are complicated.” (24:24)

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Final Reflections

A heartfelt, human episode that brings listeners inside the living realities of the Navajo reservation and the wider Native American experience. Chris Barney’s voice is dignified, wryly humorous, and honest—offering a rare glimpse of both struggle and resilient joy. Nicole’s story adds nuance to the conversation, reminding us of the generational impacts of assimilation and the ongoing journey of cultural recovery.

Highly recommended segments:

• Chris’s vivid, poetic descriptions of reservation life and tradition (throughout, 03:26–29:30)
• The practical how-to for bartering seeds online (33:37–38:44)
• Nicole’s perspective on assimilation, family history, and her struggle to reclaim belonging (44:09–54:08)

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Next Steps:
Follow Chris Barney on Instagram at HastiiN Goat Herder or on Facebook as “Chris Barney”.
Barter for seeds, send a quirky trade, and learn about drought-friendly agriculture direct from the source.

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Parting words from Chris (29:53):

“We are all children of Mother Earth in the universe and to never lose a connection to the source of life, to the Creator.”

Transcript

[Chris Barney]

This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.

[Katie Couric]

If you only listen to one thing to make sense of the news this year, make it this. The final episode of this season of Next Question pulls together the most important conversations of the year. You'll hear David Graham on Project 2025, Liz Oyer on the plethora of presidential pardons, Tina Brown on the year's biggest scandals here at home and across the pond, plus much, much more. It's a crash course in the last 12 months, how we made it through the year, and a look at what might be coming in 2026. Listen to next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Barney]

I actually drive better when I'm high. It heightens my senses, calms me down. If anything, I'm more careful.

[Geck]

Honestly, it just helps me focus. That's probably what the driver who killed a four year old told himself and now he's in prison. You see, no matter what you tell yourself, if you feel different, you drive different. So if you're high, just don't drive. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.

[Katie Couric]

Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro.

[Geck]

We were in the car like a Rolling Stone came on and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what?

[Nicole]

What I would do if I didn't.

[Geck]

Feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me.

[Nicole]

In the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened.

[Katie Couric]

These are just a few of the moving and important stories on my 13th season of family Secrets. Listen to Family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Geck]

Hello.

[Nicole]

Hello.

[Geck]

Hi. What's your name, sir?

[Chris Barney]

Or I should say, I am from the N Nation in northeastern Arizona.

[Geck]

Cool.

[Chris Barney]

And that it just gave it. I told you who I am, my name, my four clans and where I'm from.

[Geck]

I appreciate you telling me your actual name, but I do have to let you know there's times during this podcast where a guy will be like, my name is Steve and I'll forget that immediately. So I probably. I'm not good at remembering things, but that sounds cool. That's a cool name. Do people call you by that name?

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, they just usually call me Chris. Like Chris, my last name? Yeah, Chris.

[Geck]

And you're from the Navajo Nation?

[Nicole]

Yes.

[Geck]

Cool. You said living in Phoenix.

[Chris Barney]

I'm living in. On the Nava Nation in The community. It's called such Israel in our language, which means rough rock. So I live on the. On the reservation. On the Nava Nation. Yeah.

[Geck]

What's it. So what's it like on the reservations? Because I've heard a lot of different things, but they're all just rumors. I want to hear from you.

[Chris Barney]

Well, it depends who you ask. We have. We're kind of in a moment, a transition in the culture. Like, we're still trying to hold on to our traditional ways, our language and culture, but at the same time, the influence from the outside world is kind of drawing a lot of our people away, especially our young people. So they want to be more westernized. And they mostly. Some of them mostly speak English only, or they only speak maybe partially naval or some even. Like. A lot of young people are grappling with trying to understand the culture and the fluency the language, but you can ask me anything.

[Geck]

How old. How old are you?

[Chris Barney]

I am 38.

[Geck]

Okay. And did you grow up speaking this language or did you learn it later?

[Chris Barney]

Oh, hey. My grandmother and Shamato, my. My relatives, my aunties, my uncles and people were fluent speakers, so they spoke to us as little kids, and I grew up speaking the language and relearning a lot of things as an adult. Yeah.

[Geck]

Do you have kids?

[Chris Barney]

I raised two boys. They're my nephews. One's 18 and one's 14. My family. But I don't have any children of my own, not biologically.

[Geck]

Did you raise them, like, by yourself, or was your brother slash sister there, too?

[Chris Barney]

My sister. She's in college and working and things, so I pretty much raised them from babies, like, from the time they came from the hospital to the time. They're, like, almost adults now. So that's very common with our culture because we. We have, like, intergenerational families sometimes living together in the same area. And we're. We. We go by clans. We have a clan system, so we have an. Our mother and our father's clan are the main clans that we affiliate with. So, yeah, we're very much.

[Geck]

Wait, I'm sorry, but are you. Are you. Are you taking a walk right now or something?

[Chris Barney]

Yes, I'm herding sheep or I'm walking with my goats and sheep.

[Geck]

You're walking with your goats and sheep?

[Chris Barney]

Yes.

[Geck]

Whoa. Interesting. I feel like. You know what? I feel like normally I would ask if you could stand still so that we could have this conversation without your phone going in and out, but I guess I can't tell you to stop herding the Sheep.

[Chris Barney]

Oh, geez. Yeah, I'm standing still at the moment. I'm not moving.

[Geck]

Okay. All right. You're herding sheep. Interesting. Okay. We're. There's so much to. I want. There's so much to talk to you about. How did. So how did you grow up? What was it like for you? Did you grow up. Did you grow up on this reservation that you're on right now?

[Chris Barney]

Yes, I've. I've lived here all my life, and I've grown up here and went to school here on the reservation. And I went to. For a short stint, I went to Santa Fe. They have a place called the Institute of American Indian Arts. And so I studied filmmaking there, and I came back here and started farming full time years ago.

[Geck]

So.

[Chris Barney]

I raised livestock. Yeah, I studied filmmaking.

[Geck]

Have you made any films?

[Chris Barney]

This one. I helped out in some small films. I'm also a writer. I write poetry. I. I've written and published poetry, mostly attempting to write a novel. I've done screenplays. I've helped edit people's work. You know, sometimes gone uncredited, but that's okay because I just volunteer, you know. But yeah, I went to film school.

[Geck]

H. What do most people, like, do for work on the reservation?

[Chris Barney]

Oh, they have odd jobs. Some work with the. The tribal. They have a tribal headquarters. So people are work for the tribe, doing different things. Some work as maintenance people. Some go off the reservation to find jobs in the cities, like welding, a big thing, electricians, journeyman. Some people are cowboys, professional cowboys, you know, just all sorts of things. Some people are medicine people. They do healing work among the community and, you know, for the world. So it all. It all varies. Some are teachers, some are doctors, some are this or that. You know, some people gone to Harvard, some people gone to Columbia. Some people come back to the res. Some people live. You know, we have Navajos everywhere. You know, like the people that I. My. The tribe that I belong to.

[Geck]

So there's a battle going on where younger people are becoming more westernized and like, the original culture is kind of being lost. You say.

[Chris Barney]

In some ways. In some ways, a lot of people have seen the changes happening and they're doing something about it. They're being proactive in their families. They're speaking the language to the young people. They're bringing them to ceremonies. They're engaging with them culturally, teaching them things. We're a land based people. We have our origins here on this land. Our creation stories say we came out of the earth, and from there we journeyed through several worlds into this one that we're currently in.

[Geck]

You journeyed through several, several worlds.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah. Under the earth, like, in the ground, like ants? Yeah. So we were like spirit beings, but when we came up, we came into, like, material, physical beings, like you and me, like, human being, you know, fashion, blood.

[Geck]

I got to ask. Why? Why. Why do you think we stopped here? Like, what is it about this place where it's, like, you know what? Let's stop at this world. This is where this one has McDonald's.

[Chris Barney]

Well, your people came from across the ocean, so, you know, I should ask you, why did you guys stop here?

[Geck]

Wait, are you talking about, like, this, like, soul, like, spiritual souls? You're talking about, like, the Navajo people?

[Chris Barney]

Well, I'm talking about my people. We. We. We. We came out of the earth at a. At a sacred place. I can't mention the name, but we. We came into this world, and we are. Our boundaries to our homeland is four sacred mountains, and we stay within those four sacred mountains where we're supposed to. Anyway.

[Geck]

So I. I. Okay, I'm curious about this. Okay, so, yes, it is true. Yes, white people came to. What was America called before all that stuff happened?

[Chris Barney]

It depends on who you talk to. A lot of the tribes, like the Haudenosaunee and the Iroquois, first nations people, the Sixth council. I forget how many council they are. The people in the eastern part of the U.S. the Wampanoag, the Cayuga, the Shawnee, the Powhatan, all those people that the Mayflower people met. The. The first colonists that came, you know, Jamestown and all that before Columbus and the Spaniards, or after? Excuse me. After they came, like, with Plummet Rock and all that. They call this plan Turtle Island. Those people over there, Turtle Island.

[Geck]

So, okay, so, yes, white people came, and we just fucking did a bunch of shit. And then I'm curious. So does the American government like to. To what degree has the American government been like, you know, our bad. We're gonna help you guys. Like, you know, has. Has what. What does that look like?

[Chris Barney]

Well, we have. What is called we. My ancestors fought the Americans when they came and tried, and a lot of people were captured in the resistance. Some people evaded resistance, my ancestors included. They escaped and fought back and hid from the. They were disappeared in 1864, where the federal government came and relocated and tried to take at least 9,000 navos from the. From our homeland when they marched them into New Mexico to a place called Fort Sumner and held them at gunpoint for four years. So they were incarcerated in a concentration Camp like, like what happened with the Holocaust? Yeah, them, us and also Mescalero, Apaches and some other tribes. But the Mescaleros got out in the night that it took off. So my people, we call ourselves the Net. That's, that's who it means. The people are human beings. So the Net people were there for four years until 1868, where we signed a peace treaty with the United States government and military to quit fighting. Okay, so we, we have a peace treaty with the United States where our treaty tribe.

[Geck]

So there's a peace treaty. But like, like, does the government like do anything for you guys like today?

[Chris Barney]

Yes, they, they're obligated under the provisions of the, the treaty of 1868 to provide whatever way they can to try to. They give like funding to the tribe contemporarily. Right now there's a lot of discussion and there's a lot of controversy of how to spend federal funds that we get from the tribal government. And. Excuse me, from the federal government to the tribal government. You see, our tribal government was set up in 1923 as a business council. And so in order to give legitimacy to energy corporations to mine and drill into the earth for oil, uranium, coal, natural gas, helium, and whatever, you know, water. So on our homeland there's a vast amount of natural resources, including timber, you know, gravel, whatever, you know, coal. There's a big thing uranium. I think I mentioned uranium, oil. And so when they discovered all these minerals below us or on the land itself, they came in and started to mine and established relations with the tribe to modernize the Nafo people through boarding schools and through like things like mission schools, boarding schools, where they took children away and basically tried to teach them how to be like white people.

[Geck]

So you said that there's a controversy in terms of how this money should be spent by the tribal government. What's that controversy? Where do people think the money should be spent?

[Chris Barney]

Well, they have several trust funds and they have several funding sources where they set up, I guess like big bank banking systems. They try to make use of, distribute the, the wealth of the tribal government evenly among the people. But the tribal officials mostly spend it among themselves. They pay themselves millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of in salary, like six, seven figure salaries. And it's just really ridiculous. So that's where a lot of the local government we see, we have 110 chapters and we have a tribal council and we have a three branch government. Like that mirrors the United States government. And so we also have a president and there's been like a lot of controversy with him and his leadership or lack thereof.

[Geck]

So the government is. So a lot of the tribal government has gotten fairly corrupt.

[Chris Barney]

Yes. Just because they haven't learned how to utilize the funding correctly. Am I in my opinion.

[Geck]

Hmm. So. So the, the reservations, right. Do they. Do they follow? So they have their own government and their own kind of rules and laws and stuff and like, they. Do they have to. Like, are they still under the jurisdiction of the federal American government or like even. Or even like the state government that they're located in?

[Chris Barney]

Yes, we have. I'll start with the state. We have tribal representation within the different districts of the state of Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. And we have people out in Washington who advocate on our behalf. We have a Washington office, kind of like a little embassy that people go out there and try to establish not just funding, but laws that will help our people. And there's all sorts of things. I don't know if you're familiar with federal Indian law, but there was a lot of things that happened. The reorganization Department of Interior, which we call the bia Bureau of Indian affairs, oversaw a lot of travel, government business until they handed it over to the tribes. I think was in 1952 or somewhere around there, organized a tribe into a. Into a tribal government with a three branch system. And so we're like a mini Washington, I like to say.

[Geck]

It's just funny that I'm imagining you telling me all of this while you're herding sheep.

[Chris Barney]

Oh, yes.

[Geck]

How is the sheep herding going?

[Chris Barney]

It's good. I'm actually, I'm trying to look over the hill here, see where they went because I was trying to hold still. They wandered it off, but they're not far.

[Geck]

So. Okay, you know, let's, let's. I want to talk about you. I'm curious about you.

[Chris Barney]

Okay.

[Geck]

So you have these two nephews that are basically like your sons. You have two boys that you raised. Do you have a wife or a girlfriend?

[Chris Barney]

No, I don't have anyone like, currently in my life like that.

[Geck]

Did you. Did you use. Did you used to. Are you divorced or broken up or.

[Chris Barney]

Oh, I've left a long trail of heartbreaks now. Yes, Once upon a time ago I did.

[Geck]

How did you meet these ladies? Like, were these like, women that you met on, like, the reservation?

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, I met some in high school. I met some in the. I was involved in online resistance movements to try to protect sacred sites and things like mountains or water rights. I fought and won against power plants with People, you know, and we built coalitions to protect the Grand Canyon in certain places, the holy San Francisco peaks and Flagstaff. We did things like we changed ourselves to machinery. And as far as protest, lots of community involvement, a lot of organizing, a lot of spiritual support from our elders and our medicine practitioners, our healers.

[Geck]

So where do you think we go when we die?

[Chris Barney]

To the spirit world.

[Geck]

The spirit world? Do you think the spirit world is better or worse than the current world?

[Chris Barney]

Oh, there's no sadness, there's no grief, there's no pain. It's just bliss. You're free.

[Geck]

Interesting. Interesting. Hmm.

[Chris Barney]

It's better than the Christian heaven.

[Geck]

So are you. I don't know, man. I guess. Are you, like, who's around? Like, it. What's the community like? Do you have a lot of friends and family hanging around?

[Chris Barney]

Oh, yeah, I got a whole bunch of followers, social media people around me, but I live a pretty private life. I don't.

[Geck]

You. I. I asked if you have a lot of people. Are you like. I. I asked if you have a lot of people around you. You have. You have social media followers?

[Chris Barney]

Oh, yeah, I. I have tons of followers and people and that follow what I do, my work.

[Geck]

Okay, what about like. Like, you know, like people in the community?

[Chris Barney]

Not so much, because I don't really mingle with them, my neighbors, because we're like, really private people. We don't really, like, get into people's business too much. But I do have. I'm surrounded by relatives, like blood and clan, so we all know each other, you know, like. But we just live separate lives.

[Geck]

Do you prefer the social media followers to the actual people?

[Chris Barney]

Oh, yes, because. Because the neighbors around me, the people get territorial and envious of things that you do. So we just kind of, like, I just ignore them, you know, kind of weird.

[Geck]

Do you talk with your followers?

[Chris Barney]

Oh, yeah. I engage with people all the time, every day.

[Geck]

Where do you. Where do you post this stuff?

[Chris Barney]

Instagram, Facebook, mainly. I don't really do TikTok or anything else like that.

[Geck]

This is so interesting where, like, you're like a sheep herder influencer.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, I have like 5,000 followers on Facebook and like 10 or 5,000 friends. I max it out all the time, and people come on drop off, and I'm about 2,000 something on. On Instagram, but I. I kind of neglecting it because I've been so busy, you know, like, trying to do things.

[Geck]

Do you feel like the sheep are your friends or that they're just like fodder? Like, what's your relationship, like, with the sheep?

[Chris Barney]

Well, I call them my children and my. You know, they let my babies, you know, even though I eat them sometimes.

[Geck]

Yeah, sometimes you got to do that. I'm fascinated by this. So you prefer being around sheep and social media followers to real people?

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, because animals, they love you unconditionally. People are complicated.

[Geck]

Yeah, it's true. That's true. Do you. Do you hope to one day develop stronger relationships with the people around you?

[Chris Barney]

Well, yeah, to a point. But like I said, I like my privacy, you know, because once you start engaging with the community, they bring into the problems. And I don't want to get involved in people's problems, you know, I got my own problems.

[Geck]

So your nephews are. So your nephews, I. I guess, are the. The representation of these young people who are becoming more westernized. Do you think that. Do you think your nephews are being westernized? Like, what's your relationship with them on that front?

[Chris Barney]

Well, there's two ways. Show them the culture and bring them into it every day, little by little, you know? Then you teach them. This is what this plant is. This is the name of this lizard. This is the name of that bird. This is the name of the wind, the clouds, the lightning, the thunder, Mother Earth, you know, Father sky, the sun, Father, son, grandmother, the moon, the stars. You know, you call them and you tell them, this is what they're called, you know, and that's how I was raised. And this is what Herb killed Pierce. This. This is what Herb helps the sheep. This is what herb is a tobacco you can smoke. This is how you make an offering for rain. You know, we're always praying. We pray with corn pollen and cornmeal.

[Geck]

Do you are. You are. Do you feel like they're being Westernized? Like, do you, like, is there, like, a specific part of western culture or something like that that you think that they have found themselves, like, aligned with?

[Chris Barney]

Oh, movies, TV shows, video games, social media, music, you know, that's. That's normal. I think every young person, native or non native, loves all that, right? Like Fortnite, whatever. You know, Legend of Zelda. I played all those things and, like, watch movies all the time. I have WI fi at my house. I just get online and start doing things, you know. One of my favorite things I like to play is Assassin's Creed. All those games.

[Geck]

Yeah, you played. You played Assassin's Creed 3?

[Chris Barney]

Yes, I played all the NGO and all that. The only one I haven't played is the latest one with the samurai storyline.

[Geck]

So yeah, well, Assassin's Creed 3, you play? I think. I don't know. I don't know if he's a Navajo, but maybe. I think maybe he's a Navajo. Yeah. That. His name is Ken. Kenny, Something like that.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah. I don't know. He's a native from the. From the East Coast. Like, he's inspired by. Is that. He's a native, baby.

[Geck]

Yeah.

[Chris Barney]

I played on my switch. I was playing it one time, kind of got far, but it's kind of confusing because it's on the switch, you know?

[Geck]

Yeah. And the controls kind of suck.

[Chris Barney]

I love it. I play Breath of the Wild and the Tears of the Kingdom and everything.

[Geck]

Dude. It's fun. Dude. Something about. Something about a sheep hurt. Something about, like. It's very like, you. I'm a ma. Like, I'm imagining that you right now are in a vast field, like, herding sheep. And then at some point, you're like, fuck this. And then you pull out your switch and then you play. Play a simulated version of being in a vast field.

[Chris Barney]

I live in the hills below a mountain. The mountain is just, like, south of me. And I can go anywhere. There's canyons, there's springs. There's places where water comes when it rains. It becomes like a river. There's all sorts of mesa tops, like, hills, rocks everywhere, trees. It's like a jungle, like a. And where I live at is full of rocks, rocks everywhere. So it's not flat. It's like, I'm a hill. I'm, like, in a hill country.

[Geck]

There's one more thing I actually wanted to ask you before we go. You. Well, you texted me, and you said that you. You have a message that you wanted to. To deliver. Is that true? Is that accurate?

[Chris Barney]

Yeah.

[Geck]

Yeah. Before we go, do you want to. Do you want to deliver your message?

[Chris Barney]

I want to say that we're in a period of great transition on this Earth and that we all need to come together, all people from all directions of life, to remember who we are as human beings, as people of the Earth's surface. And no matter what color or blood, skin, or wherever we come from, we are all children of Mother Earth in the universe and to never lose a connection to the source of life, to the Creator.

[Geck]

What do you think is this transition that we're going through? What would you. How would you describe it?

[Chris Barney]

We're coming into new times all the time. And people in the spiritual way think it's like Age of Aquarius or, you know, some transition, some spiritual, you know, 5D reality, who knows? You know, they all have different things. You know, the year of the horse. You know, people, astrologers, talk about things with the planets, whatever, you know, but with us and our traditional people, we see like we're coming back to our old ways. We're. We're starting to pick up where. Where our ancestors left off. That's what we call our ancestors, Which means the way of our old people, the way of life. That way they live. Excuse me. Which means the corn pollen away, which means the beauty way. We pray for peace on Earth. We also go to war. We have warrior societies. But when we come home, we come home with peace in mind. And we walk in beauty. Beauty around us and beauty behind and before us and all around us. And may beautiful things come from our words and our thinking and our hearing and our speech, our language. May everything become beautiful again. And. I say that four times as a way of confirmation to say everything will be restored in harmony.

[Geck]

Chris, do you want to tell us where we can follow you on social media and keep up with your sheep herding adventures?

[Chris Barney]

Yes, you can find me at Hastine Goat Herder. It's H A S T I I N Goat Herder Instagram. And Chris Barney with K R I S Space. B A R N E Y. Like the dinosaur.

[Geck]

You're maxed out on friends.

[Chris Barney]

Yes.

[Geck]

You have to follow me. You gotta. You. Oh, okay. I was gonna say you gotta purge some people.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, I just, I. The other day I was feeling kind of whimsical and so I. I got meta verified, so I'm like navigating all that stuff now. Reels and, you know, I'm trying to get monitor monetization going and like, I don't know how this all works. It's all complicated, but I'm figuring it out, dude.

[Geck]

There's got to be someone. There's gotta be some. Fuck, I wish I was clever enough to come up with funny sponsorships for you to take as a sheep herder Instagram influencer, but they exist. They exist, yeah.

[Chris Barney]

Also, I sell seeds. I have a farm, and my main employment is selling seeds.

[Geck]

Oh, wait, do you sell them on. Do you sell the seeds online?

[Chris Barney]

Yes, mainly on those two platforms. Right now I'm trying to get a website going, but I haven't figured out how to do that.

[Geck]

Cool, cool, cool. Well, shit, I hope some people from this show come over and follow you. Maybe you can sell a seed or two.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, I sell all kinds of corn, beans, squash, tobacco and chilies, tomatoes, aromas, sorghum, sunflowers wheat, you name it, I grow it and I sell and I. The seeds I grow are very drought tolerant, so they don't need much water.

[Geck]

You sell this shit online or you, like, sell it at, like, a store or both?

[Chris Barney]

Just out of my Facebook and Instagram at the moment.

[Geck]

Cool. Yeah, you're like a jet. You're like a. You're like a general store on Instagram.

[Chris Barney]

Exactly.

[Geck]

Okay.

[Chris Barney]

All right. Here.

[Geck]

You know, fuck it. I'll go there right now. What is it? Hold. What? Say. Say this. Say this again. I'll lie. React.

[Chris Barney]

Goat herder on Instagram. H A S T I I N. Goat herder.

[Geck]

Hastine. Okay. Here you are, Chris. Barney. Whoa. Okay. Right. I don't know why. I don't know why I was so surprised to see a goat, but look at this goat.

[Chris Barney]

It's a sheep. That's a ram.

[Geck]

That's a. Yeah. Why does it have four horns?

[Chris Barney]

It's a breed called Novel Churro sheep. And they have four horns. Most of them, the rams. Some of them have two horns. Some of them have, like, four horns. Some of them are fused together. It all varies.

[Geck]

Oh, this is you wearing sunglasses. You look pretty cool. I like how there's. Okay, your Instagram right now. I like how there's pictures of eagles and beautiful skies and then there's a. Just a meme that you posted, and it's a guy looking in the mirror talking to himself going, I'm not crazy. You're crazy.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah.

[Geck]

You sell seeds. I'm gonna look at your website. Okay. Oh, you have a P.O. box. You have a YouTube channel. Wait, how could you don't have a link to your website on here? I'm going into digital marketing mode. How do I. Yeah, I can't buy. How do we buy your seeds?

[Chris Barney]

Well, just message me. I was gonna update a list of seeds today. And, like, I just. Mostly through, like, the direct messaging. Direct messaging.

[Geck]

Oh, all right. So you just. So people just Venmo you for seeds?

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, yeah. Venmo Cash App detail.

[Katie Couric]

Cool.

[Geck]

Okay. All right. Wait, that's actually. Wait, that's way cooler. Wait, that's. I. I thought. Honestly, I thought what you did was cool before, but that's way cooler. You just. Like. I thought you. I thought you had, like, an E Commerce set up. You just. You just kind of vibe it out.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, yeah. People, they. I barter and trade for things, too. You know, they give me food and we trade seeds with other people who are farmers and gardeners from all over the world.

[Geck]

So could I or anyone who messaged you theoretically, like, be like, yo, I have a. I have, like, this rare Pokemon card. I'll send it to you in exchange for, like, a seed.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah. Or from corn or like a. Something to eat. Like maybe some pastole or some chile or, you know, something like that. You know, like, it's seed, but also food. And I sell all sorts of stuff. I'm kind of like a. Like a trading post or something.

[Geck]

Okay. All right. I encourage. All right, I encourage the listeners of this podcast to message hosting the goat herder and. And begin to barter. I'm very curious. What. I'm very. Please let me know what kind of bar. I want to know the most quirky trade that comes out of this. I want to see if you get, like, I don't know, like a picture of someone's grandfather in exchange for a piece of wheat. You know, something like that. Let me know.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, I have seeds from all over the place, all over the world. I have corn from the Atacama Desert in Chile. I have seeds from Brazil. Have seeds from, like, Europe. Turkey. I have a friend in Morocco that I'm trying to get some castor beans from him, you know, because they grow everywhere in Morocco, and I send seeds everywhere. I sent beans to Norway, Australia, Pakistan, all over the place. Germany, England, Brooklyn, New York, you know, L.A. las Vegas, wherever I can send. I ship things I tried to. Yeah.

[Geck]

Cool. Cool. Thanks for talking to us today, Chris. I appreciate this. I hope. I hope you get some good trades from this. This would be. That would be cool.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah. Even rocks. I like crystals and obsidian and things you can make arrowheads out of, you know?

[Geck]

Is there anything else you want to say before we go?

[Chris Barney]

Just a hat, which means thank you. You know, I've been. I've been listening to you for a few years now, since probably 2022 around there.

[Geck]

Cool.

[Chris Barney]

And if you touch my heart.

[Geck]

Oh, thank you.

[Chris Barney]

All your. All your. The people on there just stay strong with each other, you know, and we'll get through these tough times. You know, in this country, in the world, you know, things are kind of upside down, but I think they're going to get better eventually, you know?

[Geck]

Yeah.

[Chris Barney]

We gotta have faith and everything. We do.

[Geck]

Hey, thank you, Chris. I appreciate the kind words, man. I'll. I'll see you around. The spiritual.

[Chris Barney]

The spiritual realm, definitely in this world, too. You know, Maybe someday I'll come visit you in New York there, in Washington park, wherever you hang out.

[Geck]

That'd be crazy, man. Come through.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah. I got an eagle feather for you, brother.

[Geck]

Oh, that'd be great. All right, I'll check. All right. If I ever get to see you in real life, I'll trade you an eagle feather for a gecko foot.

[Chris Barney]

All right. Right on.

[Geck]

Hey, have a good one, Chris. Thank you, man.

[Chris Barney]

Care, be well.

[Geck]

Bye, Chris. That was fascinating. Dude, man, I fuck with that guy. That's. I was. Dude, I was in my head thinking, like, he had like, a. Some kind of e commerce store. He's got like a Shopify page. And I'm like, no, I'm thinking he's fucking just. He barters, like, straight up fucking. Yo, you're in Pakistan. You got a cool rock over there. Let me send you a seed in the mail. You Venmo? Yeah, no, no, Venmo. You send me a seed, I'll send you a seed. You send me that cool rock shit. That's awesome. Everyone go trade with that guy. I want that guy to get all sorts of interesting stuff.

[Katie Couric]

As we head into 2026, it's safe to say that 2025 was a year like no other. So much news, so much disruption, and, yes, so much division. That's why we're wrapping up this season of Next Question with a look back at everything that's happened. Things are coming at us with such a velocity, we thought it was important to take a moment, connect the dots, and explore what it all means. We're summing up the first year of Trump's second term with David Graham on Project 2025, and how many of the goals have been implemented. Richard Haass on foreign policy and the changing world order. Jessica Valenti on reproductive rights and the terrifying consequences of abortion bans. Tina Brown on the year scandals here and across the pond. The President has upended everything from pardons to the press, so we're covering it all. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

Like, if we're on the air here and I literally have my contract here, and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm gonna.

[Geck]

Get a seven figure check.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

I've told them I won't be working.

[Chris Barney]

Here in two weeks.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built a cultural empire, the Atlanta Is podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world.

[Geck]

The thing I love about Atlanta is.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

That it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's Rise, featuring conversations with ludicrous Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama and more. The full series is available to listen to now.

[Geck]

I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as, like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment.

[Nicole]

And that's like, how, you know, like, okay.

[Chris Barney]

Oh, you from Atlanta? For real?

[Geck]

I ain't got to say too much.

[Nicole]

I'm Grady, baby. Shut up.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

Listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you go, get your podcast.

[Brad Palumbo]

The social media trend that's landing some gen zers in jail. The progressive media darling whose public meltdown got her fired.

[Chris Barney]

I'm going to take Franchesca off the network entirely.

[Brad Palumbo]

The massive Tik Tok boycott against Target. That makes no actual sense.

[Nicole]

I will continue getting stuff from Target and I will continue to not pay for it.

[Brad Palumbo]

And the MAGA influencers whose trip to the White House ended in imperial embarrassment.

[Geck]

So refreshing to have a press secretary after the last few years who's both intelligent and articulate.

[Brad Palumbo]

You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media, but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things happening online in media and in politics with the Brad vs. Everyone podcast hosted by me, Brad Palumbo. Every day of the week, I bring you on a wild ride through the most dulu takes on the Internet, criticizing the extremes of both sides from an interview independent perspective. Join in on the insanity and listen to the Brad vs. Everyone podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nicole]

Hello.

[Geck]

What's up?

[Chris Barney]

Hey, how's it going?

[Geck]

What's.

[Nicole]

I'm about to go to work. Oh, what's up with you?

[Geck]

You're about to go to work?

[Nicole]

Yeah, I work at. In 30 minutes, but I have to leave out like in like 10 minutes.

[Geck]

So what made you want to call me?

[Nicole]

The guy that was last talking on there, on here about his culture and all of that was just super, super interesting. And I have an interesting story about. Because I'm Native American as well, but. Yeah, but I'm like, my dad is half Native American, half Puerto Rican, and my mom is white, so I kind of look just white and it's made it like, kind of. I don't know, nobody believes me. And then I have to like, show them a picture of my dad and I'm like, he's like brown.

[Katie Couric]

So.

[Nicole]

And then it's like I'm just like a kind of a white presenting person. But my dad's family was super whitewashed because his mom, who is native, she was federally recognized as white and same with all of her brothers and sisters because like that was like during the time of when they were sending like Indian children to boarding school. I don't know if you know about that, but her mom was like, you know, they were like, oh no, she's white, she doesn't need to go to boarding school. You know, I'm white. And so basically because my grandparents or my great great grandparents kind of lied to the federal government, I in turn have less federal recognization for my native heritage, which is kind of like just this crazy unfortunate event. I've talked to a lot of other people in my situation. It's, it's a really common thing. But yeah, I wish, I so wish that my family was not kind of whitewashed out of their culture because of, you know, like segregation and prejudice. But yeah, I really like, I just love hearing stories like the last guy that called who's putting such an effort to keep his language alive and share it with the youth. But yeah, I just wanted to say that, you know, there's a lot going on in like the Native American world, I think. And I just thought his call was really interesting from.

[Geck]

I mean, what's going on in the Native American world from your perspective.

[Nicole]

What he was talking about, like with the uranium mines and like all of the mines going on in at the reservations are super or not. They're not on the reservations. But I know specifically what he's talking about is the uranium mine that is poisoning the water supply to the reservation of the Navajo people. And it's just like this super, super up situation that they're in and people are getting really sick. Babies are born with like deformities. Like it's like a horrible, horrible thing. And it's kind of like a trend. Like not necessarily a trend, but you know, it happens everywhere. Just like mines and water contamination. And since they are kind of a separate federal entity, it's like it's not being treated as kind of a another country would treat. You know, it's not like we're kind of poisoning Mexico's water and Mexico is like this giant, you know, entity. So they could easily fight back, but you know, Native American power is like very limited.

[Geck]

What so do you. You said your mother was native or your father was Native?

[Nicole]

My dad.

[Geck]

And what does your dad like like, embrace, like, a lot of cultural things.

[Nicole]

No, it's, like, super sad. Like, me and my sisters and my cousins on my dad's side are starting to embrace that type, like, part of our heritage. But, yeah, it's like, you know, during the time of trying to figure out who's Indian and who's not and putting them in boarding schools, it was just, like, so normalized to be like, oh, no, we're white. Don't worry about us. And my dad, my dad's dad, my grandpa, he immigrated from Puerto Rico, and he was facing a lot of discrimination, too. So when my grandparents got together, it was kind of like a. We're going to decide to not teach our kids about this because we don't want them to feel the racism that we experience.

[Geck]

Hmm. And, okay, so they were just like, we don't want to deal with any of that. We don't want them to deal with any of that stuff, so we're just not going to even bother with it.

[Nicole]

Exactly. Like, we don't want them to. To feel different. But, you know, now it's so cool to be different. I think back then it was like.

[Geck]

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I feel like that's like a. That's a very interesting general cultural shift where, like, yeah, yeah, it's. It's now cool to be different. When it used to be bad to.

[Chris Barney]

Be different, it did.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And it's like. And, you know, I think that it's hard for people. I don't know. I don't want to say it's hard for people like me, but it is kind of just, like, invalidating because I look kind of white. I look maybe a little bit Hispanic. My hair is, like, super curly. So people think, you know, some people think I mix. Some people think I'm white, but it's like, other people don't believe me. They're like, you know, I work in a restaurant, so, like, the chefs are always like, oh, white girl this, white girl that. Just making jokes about, like, you know, because I look white. And it's like, well, you know, I'm not really. And then it's like, nobody believes me, because also, it's like, everybody wants to not be white. Everybody wants to, like, kind of stand out like that. So it comes off as, like, I'm trying to be different, you know.

[Chris Barney]

But.

[Nicole]

I am, like, federally recognized as Native still. But I don't, like, have the correct amount of Native blood on my records because of my family not claiming their Native American heritage.

[Geck]

Have you ever been to A reservation.

[Nicole]

I have, I've not been to the one. My tribe. My tribe's reservation, but I have. Yeah. My sister teaches high school at a reservation in Arizona.

[Geck]

Oh, really?

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Geck]

How has that been for her? Like, what was she reported about that experience?

[Nicole]

Well, like, kind of what he was saying. Like, the funds are super, you know, stretch thin, and they don't have a lot of resources for the school. And, you know, people are. But people are like, I will say that she said specifically, I don't think it was the Navajo who she was working with, but she did say that, like, there is a resurgence in teaching kids their native language. And she said that they're, like, trilingual. Like, they have, like, their native language and then they have. They know Spanish and then they know English, obviously. But she said it's, it's a little bit. It's just kind of hard conditions.

[Geck]

What is this? What job are you going to? Right now?

[Nicole]

I'm a server at a restaurant.

[Geck]

Ah, okay. What are your, what are your aspirations for your existence on this planet?

[Nicole]

You know, it kind of segues perfectly because I just had a breakdown about that exact question a few hours ago. But I, I, I studied art in college, and I had some, like, good jobs with it. Surprisingly, outside of college. Didn't really stick with any of them long enough. But, you know, I'm kind of trying to figure it out still. I might go back to school. And I was actually considering studying Native American art history because I had this super cool professor in college who she, like, has a doctorate degree in art history with this, like, a specification or whatever in Native American art history studies, so. And, like, she's just the coolest person ever. So I'm kind of like, that's an option. But then I'm like, I don't, I don't give a. I don't like school that much. I don't really know. I don't know. I just want to do something really sick and cool and feel fulfilled. And obviously working in a restaurant is not that for me, but that's okay. Do what you got to do.

[Geck]

You know what? I'm, I'm. I'm. I'm kind of the same way. I think it's a good way to be. I think when you get to, when you get to a chat, when you get too attached to any kind of specific dream, you sort of set yourself up for failure. But, like, for me, I'm always. I remember a lot. A while ago, I remember thinking, like, I don't really care what I do I just want to do something interesting, something that, like, I tell people what I'm up to. Like, I just always want to be, like, if I'm, like, telling people what I'm up to, I want to be, like, excited to talk to them about it. That's my. That's really my main barometer for my existence. You know, I think when you get general, when you get to a specific things get, you know, you set yourself up for disappointment, like I said, or too general.

[Nicole]

Like, what if you're just like, I do finance.

[Geck]

That's very. That's specific.

[Nicole]

Well, I mean, yeah, I guess I was thinking, like, in terms of, like, your job is so niche and interesting and cool, and it's like, you could just be somebody that does finance well.

[Geck]

I mean, I don't know. You could be somebody who's like, I want to make a lot of money. And, you know, that could be achieved in a myriad of different ways. Or you could be like, I want to be finance. You know, I think the. I think the more general is a we. Dude. There's a weird, paradoxical thing where, like, your dreams need to be both. Like, it's so paradoxical where it's like, they need to be both specific enough that you can actually achieve them, but general enough that you're, like, open to the world. You know what I mean?

[Nicole]

For sure. Like, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it is this weird paradox. I'm really, like, kind of been spiraling the last couple months over it because it's like, wow, what? I went to college and studied four years to do, and I got a job and I didn't like it, and I. And now doing the same job I was doing when I was 16, and it's like, that is kind of. I don't know, it just kind of makes me feel bad. Kind of makes me feel like I've failed a little bit.

[Geck]

That you've. That you failed?

[Nicole]

Yeah. Not like I failed, but I. I mean, I definitely got in closer now to what I want to do, like, with all my life experience and whatever. But, you know, I, like, went to college for a specific thing, and I, like, didn't like it at the end of the day.

[Geck]

Did you mention what that specific thing is?

[Nicole]

I went to school for art.

[Geck]

Yeah, but wait, you don't like art? Why don't you like art?

[Nicole]

No, no, I love art. I don't like the commodification of art and, like, the commercial side of art.

[Geck]

Sure, yeah. The fastest. Yeah. Yeah, I think. I think there is a Lot of value in separating what you do for money and what you do for personal fulfillment. There's also. There's also. There's also a lot of value in those two being the same thing. But they. Each. Each situ. Each situation has its trade offs, you know?

[Nicole]

Yes. It's just like, I can't. I just, like, you know, other than doing a restaurant job, which is like, in my head, this is like the easy job. Like, I can't think of anything else, like, that I want to do for money that I would, like, like. I don't know. I just can't find fulfillment in a job where I just get a paycheck. Money doesn't, like, motivate me, and I, like, wish it did, but it just, like, makes me feel kind of like if you. When I'm chasing a bag. Do you know what I mean?

[Geck]

Can you take me off a speakerphone real quick?

[Nicole]

Oh, sorry.

[Geck]

No, no worries.

[Nicole]

I was.

[Geck]

No, I heard you said. Why do you say you wish money motivated you?

[Nicole]

Because then I'd have more of it, and then I could do what I wanted to do, you know, that is, I. Yeah, I can't, like, do. So I'm, like, starting to apply to a bunch of. Because I'm kind of, you know, figuring out, okay, I want to do art. I'm gonna make this happen. So I've started applying to, like, different art grants in my state and trying to make it happen for myself and, like, planning on moving to a more populated area that has more opportunities and whatever for that. And it's just like, at the end of the day, I can't make art if I don't have money, but I can't make money if I don't have time to create. You know, it's. Yeah, like the paradox.

[Geck]

Yes. Yes. Yeah. That's why the go. The goal is to, like. Well, that's the trade off, right? Is because the goal is to, like, be able to spend as much time, like, and energy doing the things you really want to do. And then, yeah, paradoxically, yes, you need money to do them. And then paradoxically, in order to get that money, you have to spend time doing things you don't want to do. So it's.

[Katie Couric]

We.

[Geck]

It's weird, like, when you, like when you, like, overlap them, where it becomes a thing of, like, you know, your. Your incentives start getting like, you know, you don't know what you're doing because you like it. You don't know what you're doing because you want to make money. But I guess the Goal is to figure out. That's why everyone's scheming all the time. You know, it's like we, everyone's. Everyone's like, the. The goal is to like, figure out how can I spend as little amount of time doing things I don't want to do and make as much money as possible. And that is. That. That is kind of the 2026American dream.

[Nicole]

The American dream.

[Geck]

Just figuring out. Figuring out a good scheme.

[Nicole]

True that. I mean, I'm kind of in a scheme.

[Geck]

What's your scheme?

[Nicole]

Yeah, I'm scheming for sure. I'm definitely on the come up. Even scheming my way to a bag, I guess you could say.

[Geck]

What are you scheming? What's the scheme?

[Nicole]

The. Well, my scheme is like the art grants and like trying to find money to create and try to create off of somebody else's dime.

[Geck]

That's a good scheme.

[Nicole]

Is. Is my scheme. Yeah. Fudge it. And I'm also kind of like, I have a long term boyfriend, so it's kind of like, why don't I just move in with you? And then we could live, cut our rent cost in half and it would be dreamy. That's a scheme.

[Geck]

That's a classic scheme. That's a. That's a. That's a scheme as old as time.

[Nicole]

True.

[Chris Barney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Geck]

You pay a. People. People have talked about this. You pay like a. There's. There is a single tax that you have to pay if you're single.

[Nicole]

Like being. For being single.

[Geck]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nicole]

And like. Yeah. Why would I pay that? If I have a boyfriend, I'm just gonna. But then it's like, why would I. I told my mom I might move in with him, and she was like, why don't you just get married? I'm like, what? In this economy? No, not getting married.

[Geck]

How long have you guys been together?

[Nicole]

Three years.

[Geck]

Three years. What's he do? What's his deal?

[Nicole]

Oh, my gosh. I wish I had more time to talk to you, but looking at the clock, I feel like I'm gonna be late for work.

[Geck]

We have in fact gone over 10 minutes, so I will let you get on with your life. What is your name one more time?

[Nicole]

Nicole.

[Geck]

Nicole. It was nice talking to you, Nicole. I will see you around the universe and good luck on your. On your artistic endeavors.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Thank you. I. I liked your perspectives. The paradox.

[Geck]

Thank you.

[Nicole]

True.

[Geck]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Nicole]

It's nice to talk about.

[Geck]

Yeah. Life is crazy. I always say it. I always feel it. I Never. I never don't feel that way.

[Nicole]

Okay, love you. Talk to you later. Bye.

[Geck]

See? See you, man.

[Katie Couric]

As we head into 2026, it's safe to say that 2025 was a year like no other. So much news, so much disruption, and, yes, so much division. That's why we're wrapping up this season of Next Question with a look back at everything that's happened. Things are coming at us with such a velocity, we thought it was important to take a moment, connect the dots and explore what it all means. We're summing up the first year of Trump's second term with David Graham on Project 2025 and how many of the goals have been implemented. Richard Haass on foreign policy and the changing world order. Jessica Valenti on reproductive rights and the terrifying consequences of abortion bans. Tina Brown on the year scandals here and across the pond. The President has upended everything from pardons to the press, so we're covering it all. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brad Palumbo]

The social media trend that's landing some gen zers in jail. The progressive media darling whose public meltdown got her fired.

[Chris Barney]

I'm gonna take Francesca Cisco off the network entirely.

[Brad Palumbo]

The massive tick tock boycott against Target that makes no actual sense.

[Nicole]

I will continue getting stuff from Target and I will continue to not pay for it.

[Brad Palumbo]

And the MAGA influencers whose trip to the White House ended in embarrassment.

[Geck]

So refreshing to have a press secretary after the last few years who's both intelligent and articulate.

[Brad Palumbo]

You won't hear about these online stories in the mainstream media, but you can keep up with them and all the other entertaining and outrageous things happening online in media and in politics. With the Brad vs. Everyone podcast hosted by me, Brad Palumbo. Every day of the week, I bring you on a wild ride through the most delulu takes on the Internet, criticizing the extremes of both sides from an independent perspective. Join in on the insanity and listen to the Brad vs. Everyone podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

Like if we're on the air here and I literally have my contract here, and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm going.

[Geck]

To get a seven figure check.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

I've told I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built the cultural empire, the Atlanta Is podcast uncovers the Stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world.

[Geck]

The thing I love about Atlanta is.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

That it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with ludicrous Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now.

[Geck]

I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as, like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like, how, you know, like.

[Chris Barney]

Okay, oh, you from Atlanta for real.

[Geck]

I ain't got to say too much.

[Nicole]

I'm Grady, baby.

[Geck]

Shut up.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

Listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Geck]

What's up, folks? It's me. I'm gonna do a little bit of viewer mail just to end us out, just because I just. Cause I'm like, you know what? It's a nice. I don't know, it's a nice way to end the podcast. I feel, you know, I can just talk directly to you guys. I feel like I'm always talking to the. I feel like I talk to the people who listen to this podcast one at a time usually. And I like doing that. But this is nice because I can talk to all of you at once by also, I guess. But I'm also reading emails, so. Which is also kind of talking to people one at a time still. But you know what? Let's not think about it too much. Let's just read a few. We don't. It. It's not gonna be crazy. It's not gonna be a lot, but let's just read a couple. Just as a nice way to end the show. This is David. This is an email from a guy named David. The subject line is, I used to write gay erotica. Hey, Geck. In your latest Geck mail episode, you read an email of mine. I was the guy who asked you about your favorite movies, and you told me that you are not a movie guy. This is true. I thought you were, because I thought you talked about going to film school and made the connection that way. I did go to film school. I don't. I like making stuff, but I. The stuff I like, the. The stuff I like to make and the stuff I like to watch are very, very different. Like, my whole. Like, I make videos about, like. Like, talking to people and about, like, real world stuff, I guess, but all of My like, actual YouTube algorithm is like, is like we played the over the Hedge video game from 2006 and we reviewed it and I'm like, yeah, I want to watch that. That's great. Anyways, while listening to my own email, I thought it was so fucking boring that I wanted to reach out again and share something more interesting that I could actually use some advice on. As the subject line says, I used to write gay erotica stories. Sometimes I'll start by saying I'm actually kind of a straight guy. I had two sexual experiences with men in an experimental phase that I met online, but came to the conclusion, no pun intended, that was good. He wrote, no pun intended. That was good. I concluded I wasn't into guys like that. If I had to put a label on it, if I had to put a label on it, I would probably call myself bi. But I feel sure I'll end up with a woman in my life as I feel more attraction towards them. During this experimental phase, I also started reading some erotica and wanted to try writing one myself because I enjoyed the act of writing. Because I recently had these experiences with guys, I thought I would take them as inspiration for the stories. After writing my first story, I posted it on the gay story subreddit I had been reading on just to see if it would get any reactions. To my surprise, the next morning I checked and saw it got a bunch of comments and likes. 15,000 views. It felt kind of cool to reach so many people and possibly make their day a little better. I kept writing stories and some of them got more than 150,000 views, accumulating to a total of more than a million views on my gay erotica stories. I'm not sure if this is for a lot of Reddit posts, as I don't use it otherwise, but it sure felt like it for me. Some people actually kept reaching out, asking me to write more with special requests. It was like I had a little fan base and I actually fulfilled some of these requests, but mostly stayed with my own imagination for inspiration. I'm also not sure why I kept writing exclusively gay stories. I guess I just stuck with what was working for me as I liked the engagement I was getting. I love the. You know what? I love the fucking idea of like, you know how, like I don't know, this is, this is. This sounds. This is ironic as somebody who's been dressing up in a gecko costume for almost six years now. But you know how there are those content creators where it's like they figure out their niche and they're like, well, this is what's working, so we gotta keep staying with it. This guy, this guy's like, I guess my niche is being gay, so I have to keep being gay because it's what's working. It's just. It's an interesting way to approach one's sexuality. I stuck with. What was working for me is I liked the engagement. But now here's what I'm debating with myself. I haven't written a story, or read one for that matter, in over a year because I lost interest in it. I'm currently single, but if I were to get with someone, should I tell them about this anonymous gay erotica presence I had online? On one hand, I want to be open with my future partner about stuff like this, but on the other hand, I have never told anyone about it or my gay experiences. It's not something I'm ashamed of per se, but I feel like it's a chapter I've closed and it might be off putting to a future partner. Should some things stay secret, or does honesty last the longest? I would love to hear your thoughts and advice. Thank you for sharing. This is a great email. So. This is a very. This is a deeply. It's a deeply personal thing, right? I will say this. It's a deeply personal thing, and there's a lot of different ways to look at it. Here's a few things that I will say confidently. I will say confidently that I don't believe in any way, shape or form you have some kind of external obligation to tell a future partner about this stuff. I don't feel like you're obligated to. So if, for whatever reason you're gonna share it with them, I don't think you should share with them out of obligation. I think it's a bad reason if you share. If. Now, now, now, listen. Some people, like, I don't know, I have a thing where it's like, I can't fucking keep my mouth shut about shit. So I, like, share. Like when I share a thing that I'm a little ashamed of with the person, I feel closer to them. And that's my motivation for sharing stuff. There's things I don't share because I'm uncomfortable, but some things are on the line of comfortability where it's like, I'm comfortable enough with this. I have enough confidence that I can share this with this person and it'll strengthen our relationship rather than making it worse. And I'm gonna do it. And so I have Kind of an intuitive thing that tells me whether or not I want to share something with someone. And I follow that intuition. So I think that for you.

[Katie Couric]

You.

[Geck]

Probably have an intuition about that as well. And I hope that intuition isn't guided by some form of obligation to keep a secret or obligation to tell someone something, but rather that your intuition is again, just guided by the principles of, like, I don't know, this, like, intangible kind of feeling. Oh, I think it would. I think, I think this person would find this interesting. I think this person might know me more if they knew this. Oh, I'm kind of feel comfortable enough with this person to show this side of myself. So I can't say, yes, you should tell her. Yes, you shouldn't. But I think you should stick to your intuition on that. I mean, it's really interesting. It's cool. I don't think it's. I don't. You said, you said it's not something you're ashamed of. I don't think it's something you should be ashamed of at all or that it might. I don't know why it would be off putting to a future partner. Yeah, you know, I, I used. You know what I used to believe. Maybe some parts of me. I used to believe, and maybe some part of my brain still believes this and it doesn't want to because it's the more difficult way of going through life, I believe. But there's also the whole thing of, like, well, you know, walk the streets naked, metaphorically, of course, or if I were naked, or just walk the streets naked, if that's your thing that you want to do. If, if, if walking the streets naked is your metaphorical walking the streets naked, then, you know, that's. Then that's what it is. You know, do that. But it walked the streets naked. And whoever's around, that's who's meant to be in your life. Like, if you literally walk to the streets naked and there would. And nine. And most. And everyone was horrified, except, like, one guy came up to you and was like, hey, what are you doing? This is interesting. What's your name? Like, why are you walking around naked? What's your name? What are you. What are you doing? You're crazy, man. You want to hang out later? This is wild. Like, that could happen to you. I don't know. But yeah, there's part of me. Part of me wants to believe that, but then another part of me believes that walking the streets naked metaphorically is a little similar to doing it literally. Where everyone's like, wow, that guy's naked. He looks like a crazy person. Let's go to another part of the streets. I don't know, but I appreciate you writing this email to me, David. Good luck with your. With your. Oh, wait, okay. Yeah. You know, you lost interest in it. I don't know why I'm pausing. I don't have anything else to say. I said everything I wanted to say. That was the podcast. That was it. We read one email. I don't think I needed to read more. I feel like that email was worth five emails. I liked. I liked all the people we interacted with today. Chris. I forget the name of the girl who I was just talking to, but I liked her. She was nice. And this guy, David, who I swear, his name, I only know because I can read it directly in front of me. Let me know if anyone ends up bartering with that guy. That'd be awesome. Alright, thanks for listening to this podcast. I'll keep making it. Geck. Bless. See you around the universe. Have a good one. Therapy get goes on the line, taking.

[Chris Barney]

Your phone calls every night.

[Geck]

Therapy get goes doing it right, teaching you how to live your life. But he's not really an expert.

[Katie Couric]

If you only listen to one thing to make sense of the news this year, make it this. The final episode of this season of Next Question pulls together the most important conversations of the year. You'll hear David Graham on Project 2025, Liz Oyer on the plethora of presidential pardons, Tina Brown on the year's biggest scandals here at home and across the pond, plus much, much more. It's a crash course in the last 12 months, how we made it through the year and a look at what might be coming in 2026. Listen to next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Barney]

I actually drive better when I'm high. It heightens my senses, calms me down. If anything, I'm more careful.

[Geck]

Honestly, it just helps me focus. That's probably what the driver who killed a four year old told himself. And now he's in prison. You see, no matter what you tell yourself, if you feel different, you drive different. So if you're high, just don't drive. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.

[Katie Couric]

Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro.

[Geck]

We were in the car like a Rolling Stone came on and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what.

[Nicole]

What I would do if I didn't.

[Geck]

Feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me.

[Nicole]

In the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened.

[Katie Couric]

These are just a few of the moving and important stories on my 13th season of family Secrets. Listen to Family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Geck]

I didn't really have an interest in being on air.

[Atlanta Podcast Host]

I kind of was up there to just try and infiltrate the building. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built the cultural empire, the Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with Ludacris, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. Listen to Atlanta is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Barney]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Geck]

Guaranteed Human.