“I WAS IN A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP”

Summary

Therapy Gecko: “I WAS IN A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP”

Podcast: Therapy Gecko (iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Lyle
Date: September 24, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Therapy Gecko (Lyle) opens the lines to discuss breakups, emotional growth, and the complexities of toxic and healthy relationships. Callers share stories of navigating heartbreak, learning from unhealthy dynamics, and working through social anxieties and personal insecurities. Lyle brings his usual irreverent gecko wisdom and humor, helping callers reflect, process their feelings, and find practical takeaways.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Laura’s Breakup and Quest for Fulfillment

Timestamps: 03:18–33:01

The Breakup Story

• Laura shares her recent breakup after a seven-year on-and-off relationship with her high school boyfriend.
• She’s surprised by her relative emotional stability post-breakup, usually expecting heartbreak.
• Laura explains her reasons: seeking growth, wanting to move states, pursuing bartending and audio engineering, and a desire not to settle for stability over fulfillment.
  • "I'm 23 right now, and I'm not really looking for something stable. I'm trying to move out of the state… I want bartending experience…" (04:57)

Relationship Dynamics

• Laura felt her boyfriend was “husband material” but not sexually compatible (“a little vanilla in bed”), despite trying to communicate and improve things.
  • "To be honest, not like it was the whole thing, but a big part of it was he was a little vanilla in bed." (09:43)
  • Laura brought in a sex game to spice things up, but it felt forced and only occasionally helped.
  • Lyle compares board games in sex to social settings: "We were having a nice, normal, natural time, and now you want to put fucking all these rules and things. It’s just… the sex version of Cards Against Humanity." (10:55)

Infidelity During the Break?

• Laura describes a week-long break during which she hooked up with someone at a music festival who met her needs for attention and sexual fulfillment.
• The boundaries of the break were ambiguous, leading to some guilt and confusion.
  • "I mean, if he communicated with me honestly, no [I wouldn't be upset], because communication is number one." (15:37)
  • Lyle acknowledges emotional complexities and lack of clean breaks: "There's never going to be a clean cut emotionally… that's just, I think, part of life." (19:46)

Emotional Processing and Reflection

• Laura notes she lost herself in the relationship, with her own goals on hold (“the love chemical overtaking me”).

• Realizes part of her peace comes from having “calculated every possible outcome” and feeling she’s already done all she could.

  • "After seven years you've done the whole Dr. Strange, I've calculated several million… ways in which this could go and there's no way it works out.” (21:43)

• Discusses comparison and envy of her ex’s stability and financial freedom.

  • "Comparison is the thief of joy. I feel like I should have had more money saved up by now, and I just wish I was in a more stable place." (27:31, 30:05)

• Lyle urges her not to check up on her ex, as it only fosters negative self-comparison.

Notable Quotes

• Laura: "Love never hurts. Always say kind things." (31:51)
• Lyle: "I think it's worth it to take the ride, as long as you're not hurting anyone." (24:37)

Lighthearted Close

• Laura recommends Lyle try watching a comfort movie in a bubble bath, defending the restorative power of self-care rituals. (32:00)

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2. Lyle & Zach: On Emotional Fluctuations and Existential Angst

Timestamps: 39:33–53:38

Lyle’s Reflection on Mood Swings

• Lyle shares experiences of rapidly swinging moods—from existential hopelessness to feeling on top of the world.
  • "My mood fluctuates so deeply… is it normal to just exist in oscillation between ‘it’s over’ and ‘we’re so back?’" (39:44)

Zach’s Evolutionary and Psychological Perspective

• Zach, an academic, provides evolutionary context: humans aren’t built for constant happiness—just survival and existence.
  • "I don't think our default gear is happy. I think it's just kind of existing, you know?" (43:38)
• Discusses overstimulation and the difficulty of maintaining emotional equilibrium in the age of social media.

Acceptance and “Optimal Arousal”

• Lyle and Zach debate the idea of self-acceptance versus striving for growth.
  • Lyle: "I take [‘you’re enough’] with a grain of salt… Sometimes I’ve gotten TOO accepting of myself… sometimes you want to resist, sometimes you want to accept—it's a yin-yang thing." (46:44–51:32)
• Zach brings in “Optimal Arousal Theory”—we’re always balancing between boredom and anxiety for best functioning. (51:32)

Notable Quotes

• Lyle: "I'd rather have it like that—I just want all of it. Every truly despondent, awful feeling and circumstance... grateful to have had it." (45:43)
• Zach: "It's a constant balancing act... trying to find that optimal level of arousal." (51:32)

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3. Zach’s Toxic Relationship: Recognition, Recovery, and Healing

Timestamps: 53:38–72:56

The Story of an Unhealthy Relationship

• Zach details a year-plus relationship dominated by emotional volatility, lack of accountability, and emotional labor.

  • His partner would deflect or invalidate apologies, citing her upbringing or previous relationships, refusing to do the work of change.
  • "I understand those aspects were not great. But like, I'm not a lesson for you. I'm a human being with feelings, you know?" (54:25)

• The “front stage/back stage” dynamic: his ex was kind, charismatic, and funny around others; privately, she was unhappy, critical, and unable to joke or accept feedback.

  • "The person I fell for and the person I dated were two completely different people." (58:02)

• She withheld support when Zach was struggling, focusing instead on her own needs:

  • "I know you're going through a lot, but I wish you would think about how it impacts me." (66:54)

Post-Breakup Reflections

• Zach feels cognitive dissonance, missing her idealized self but grateful to be away from toxicity.
• Describes the contrast between his toxic relationship (“walking on eggshells”) and a subsequent healthy one:
  • "It was just so weird not being scared all the time, you know?" (69:17)

Advice for Listeners

• "If you're in a relationship that you think is not healthy, take a step back and look at it as if your sibling or friend were in it… the first step is recognizing.” (71:37)

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4. Angie’s Social Anxiety and Growth

Timestamps: 77:00–82:44

Conquering Social Fears

• Angie follows up after a work trip to NYC, proud of overcoming her fears and putting herself out there socially and professionally.
• She recounts a mishap (getting a public drinking citation with a White Claw), but mostly celebrates successes: meeting new industry contacts, striking up conversations, and exploring NYC.
  • "I put myself out there a lot more than I thought I would. I'm proud of myself." (80:32)

Mutual Encouragement

• Angie jokingly questions if she said awkward things, but Lyle reassures her—reminding her (and himself) it doesn’t matter, everyone feels this way sometimes.
  • "Even if you did, it doesn't matter." (80:45)

Final Thoughts

• Angie: "Absolutely not. Have a beautiful week. Love you all." (82:41)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Laura on self-awareness:
  "Maybe I'm actually a different person now after seven years, and maybe he's a different person now… and life has this natural transience to it… That's just a thing that you gotta kind of, I think, bear through in order to see what else could fulfill you." (23:05, Lyle)
• Zach on breaking toxic cycles:
  "I'm not a lesson for you. I'm a human being with feelings." (54:25)
• Lyle on nostalgia and existence:
  "I don't think any piece of advice or any popular anything is truly applicable to everyone... Put a big asterisk on it all." (46:44)
• Angie’s NYC adventure:
  "I was like, are you serious?... so I just finished my White Claw while he was writing my citation because I spent money on it." (77:20)

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Key Takeaways

• Breakups can be less devastating when paired with clarity, growth, and acceptance of new directions in life.
• Sexual compatibility, communication, and feeling prioritized are crucial for relationship health.
• Emotional guilt and confusion during breaks or ambiguous boundaries are normal; clear communication is key.
• Toxic relationships often involve cycles of invalidation; hindsight and comparing to a friend’s perspective can help reveal unhealthy dynamics.
• Healing requires recognizing your own value, setting boundaries, and sometimes learning what a healthy dynamic feels like.
• Social anxiety is a universal struggle; progress is worth celebrating, and perceived awkwardness is often exaggerated in our minds.

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Laura’s breakup and discussion on compatibility: 03:18–33:01
• Philosophical reflections on happiness (Lyle & Zach): 39:33–53:38
• Zach’s toxic relationship and healing: 53:38–72:56
• Angie’s NYC update & overcoming anxiety: 77:00–82:44

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Episode Tone

Therapy Gecko maintains a candid, often humorous but compassionate approach to heavy topics, blending personal sharing, vulnerable moments, philosophy, and wit. Lyle’s persona as an unlicensed lizard psychologist creates a nonjudgmental space where nothing is too weird or real.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode gives an honest, layered look at what it means to leave unhealthy relationships, the struggle to find oneself post-breakup, and the ongoing work of emotional growth. Real-life callers bring stories of setbacks, victories, and gradual healing—with Lyle offering both levity and insight, making it as relatable as it is entertaining.

Transcript

[Lyle]

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[Lyle]

Hello?

[Laura]

Hey.

[Podcast Announcer]

Hey, what's up?

[Laura]

Oh, my God. This is Lyle.

[Lyle]

Yes. Who is this?

[Laura]

This is Laura.

[Lyle]

Laura. What's up, Laura? Have we ever spoken before?

[Laura]

No, we have not.

[Lyle]

Beautiful. Beautiful. So what's up, Laura? How's life?

[Laura]

Life is okay. I just broke up with a guy I've been kind of on and off with for about seven years. We dated in high school, and then we kind of distance and we met and we found each other on Tinder. And so we swiped and we hung out for a minute and then we kind of distance again. And then we ran into each other on campus and fell back in love. And I ended things because I didn't want to waste time because I don't think too much. So actually, I don't know, it's really weird. Usually I'm like, heartbroken, but I feel normal.

[Lyle]

You're usually heartbroken when it's off?

[Laura]

Yeah, usually, like when I end things and stuff, but I don't know, I just. I'm riding the wave. I'm a little confused, but, you know, I'm just living.

[Lyle]

You normally feel heartbroken when it's off? Specifically with this guy that you've been on and off with so, so many times.

[Laura]

Yeah. And also, like, in general when I have a connection, but. Yeah, but it kind of sucked because. No, he was a stable guy. I see him being like a husband and like a father, but I'm 23 right now, and I'm not really looking for something stable. Like, I'm trying to. I'm trying to move out of the state I'm living in and try. I went to get bartending experience. I'm also like a audio engineer, too, so I want to try to get a job after I get my certificate. Certification at, like a cruise ship or something. I've heard someone from your podcast say that they worked on a cruise ship and it sounds so fun.

[Lyle]

So why do you think you feel differently this time than you normally do?

[Laura]

I don't know. I. I guess I'm trusting in the universe that everything's going to what it needs to be. I don't know. It's. I'm confused, too. I'm also going through other stuff. I'm not trying to go too deep, so there's like, other worries on my mind, but I don't know, it's really weird to me that I'm, I feel afloat and like I do have my moments where I do get like sad and like deeply like oppressed a little bit. I don't know for things ending, but this time I, I just, I don't know, I, I maybe, I think might. I know that we're probably gonna see each other again and we left on good terms, so we're still friends, but we don't talk. But I don't know, just really weird because I'm usually a very emotional person, so it's very off for me.

[Lyle]

Well, I mean, could it be because you just feel a stronger sense of direction for the future that you're like, oh, I don't even need this.

[Laura]

Possibly. I was watching someone on YouTube about like their perspective. They were reading like Reddit stories, falling out of love stories, and they mentioned saying, well, if my boyfriend wanted to go move and like pursue their career or like something like that and they had to leave me behind, that's a no. I would end it. And I'm like, well, personally for me, I, I don't know, I, I wouldn't, I don't feel like that should. It's all different for everyone for relationships. But for me personally, I don't think I can pursue a relationship that's long distance. I get too emotional and I, my number one love language is like quality time, so. And he also, the guy I was with or used to be, we only saw each other like once a week because we didn't live too far. But we're both students and we both have full time jobs and. But he worked with his best friends every day in the same office. And then he would hang out with them afterwards because they all have the same schedule. And then I would feel a little bit like I'm not a priority because he would go out with his friends and he wouldn't like really communicate really well. But we had like a little argument and a small break, like a week or something where we just needed distance from each other. But then we came back and we both talked and we tried to meet with each other and honestly, it was really well and the relationship was like perfect. He's exactly what I needed in a boyfriend. But for some reason I just wasn't fulfilled, I guess with him, which sucks because he was a very stable person and he had a very high paying job and all this and that. Like he was husband material.

[Lyle]

But I mean, why didn't you feel, why didn't you Feel fulfilled with him, do you think?

[Laura]

Well, to be honest, not like it was the whole thing, but a big part of it was he was a little vanilla in bed.

[Lyle]

Really?

[Laura]

Yeah, I. I was open with him and I'm like, I'm down to do and try anything. And he did his best, but I could tell that he was not comfortable trying things. Or like, he would try, but they would just.

[Lyle]

I mean, can I ask, like, what were you asking him to, like, tie you up and shit like that? I mean, what. What were you trying to get him to do?

[Laura]

I. I don't know. I just told him to be a little bit more dominant, just to start small. I also bought a sex game to get his toes in the water with. With stuff, but. And that helped a little bit. But we wouldn't play the game too often because it would just come up in the mood, you know, like, it would have to be a special night. Like, that it would be like a date night that I would bring it out. But most of the time it wasn't a date night. We were just hanging out. So the game thing is interest.

[Lyle]

The game thing is interesting because it's like I feel the same way about bringing out a board game for sex that I do with bringing out a board game in any social interaction, which is like, we were having a nice, normal, natural time, and now you want to put fucking all these rules and things. It's just. It's like when you're at a party and someone brings out like, cards against humanity and you're like, I don't want to fucking do this. You know, the sex version of that.

[Podcast Announcer]

Sounds, like, doubly as awful.

[Laura]

I mean, it wasn't bad, but it was actually kind of fun. And the game would be a drinking and sex game. So, like, if you didn't want to do something, you would drink.

[Lyle]

Ah, but.

[Laura]

We don't really drink that often. I mean, I might have had issues with alcohol in the past, but, like, I'm trying to. My body's first now, and alcohol makes you inflamed and stuff like that and like, not good for your skin. So I'm trying to hold back. It's a little hard, but I mean, like, because every day sounds fun to be a little buzzed, but I have priorities.

[Lyle]

So he was just like. I mean, you were on and off with this guy for seven years. Was he, like, not sexually fulfilling for you for the whole time?

[Laura]

Yeah, I mean, no. When we were younger especially, like, I. Like, it was really fun and exciting. But then, like, to be Honest. During our break, I went to a music festival, and I found a guy there, and we did a couple hand stuff, but he was exactly what I was asking him to be in bed. But I don't ever see him becoming that interesting. And.

[Lyle]

Okay, I want to ask you something, and listen, if it's too sensitive for you, totally understand. But, you know, listen for guys out there, right? Because this is probably a lot of guys out there who, like, this is. This is like their worst thought nightmare. You know what I mean? Like, nothing to do with you. It's truly nothing to do with you.

[Laura]

You're like, no, it's up a little bit.

[Lyle]

No, no, no, no. I. I. No, no, it's not. I don't think it's up at all. I. I want you to know that I don't think it's up at all. I think it's natural to, like, you know, pursue as you desire, you know, So I don't think it's up at all. It's about. I mean, if you were on a break, right? And if he knew. It's not like you were ch.

[Laura]

No, I mean, like, we were on, like, a small break, like the week break that I told you about. Like, we weren't really single, but we weren't really together.

[Zach]

So I feel local.

[Lyle]

Were the. Were the perimeters established that it was, like, cool to sleep with other people?

[Laura]

I'm not sure. That didn't really come up in combo. Prior before. Like, a couple days prior before the festival, we had a good talk, and I think he thought that we were together. When I just needed space, he. He came. He just came to drop my diva cup off because I left one thing at his house, and I was gonna go in the water and stuff, so I couldn't, like, end camping for a few days, and I would rather have my diva cup than having to switch tampons out. And unfortunately, he had my diva cup, and I didn't want to drop $30 just for another one that I won't even use. So we. He. I was kind of not really forced, but, like, it was. It was forced kind of to have that conversation too soon. So.

[Lyle]

But you were on. But I guess when you went to this festival, you were on a break.

[Laura]

Yes. Yeah. I. I don't know if we were, like, complete, completely on a break after the conversation.

[Lyle]

Let me ask you this. If. If during that week, you found out that he went to a music festival and got a handjob, would you be upset?

[Laura]

I mean, not to the degree that I usually Would. Because I would have done the same thing.

[Lyle]

But would you have found that to be a violation of. Of. Of, I suppose, implied parameters?

[Laura]

I mean, if he communicated with me honestly, no, because communication is number one. And if he's honest with me, I wouldn't be upset. I would just. I mean, I would get a little sad and hurt in a way, but I would be very thankful that he was honest with me and I was honest. I danced with another guy, but I didn't completely tell him that we went.

[Angie]

To second base or something.

[Lyle]

So what. So what was it that you got from this like second guy that you weren't getting from your boyfriend?

[Laura]

Quality time. Because he wasn't there. I guess he was. The other guy was there and he stuck hip by me, essentially, you know, and we just were kind of one for that. No festival. I mean, there was a point where we were separated because I had to go to my camp and he had to go to his. But we made plans to go meet at the Hammocks and then. But I told him, I'm like, I may or may not be able to come because I'm going to be tripping on shrooms and I don't know where I'm going to be at that point. I can't. But then he. The guy found me at a 20,000 person festival. The. The. My dude. My festival guy found me at my campsite and I'm like, what the hell? So he's dedicated. I don't know. But. I don't know. I. He just tried. I don't. The other guy, we had a bunch of bumps in the road. The guy I've been with for seven years, anyway, we had a bunch of bumps and a lot of rocks in the road, but like we overcame that. But at the end I was just. I just wasn't fulfilled. And he wasn't attending to me so much in bed. Like, the other guy was like, the other guy made sure I finished while the guy I was with, like, if he finished, he, like, he was essentially done, you know? So I don't know. I feel like that plays a part as well as like where I stand about how. Not that he. Not the. I'm not using the right word, but for how he feels fulfilled with me and his life. I don't know, I just feel like it's a little bit. Reflection.

[Lyle]

Mm. Mm. Well, I, you know, I don't. When I said here's the thing is, I don't think it's fucked up too. I mean, I think, yeah, you like Seems as though, like the idea that it was fine to see other people was like Quasi Lee implied, but definitely could have been like communicated more up front in such a way that was, you know, made it so that both people were like, clear about it. And you know, I think that sounds like something that could have been done better. But I think the, the, well, the guilt of like, doing something that, you know, you know, even the guilt of like, even though it is supposedly or definedly within my bounds, because we're on a break to be able to do this, like, I still understand that it, you know, there is, I understand like a natural guilt of, you know, yeah, this will probably not be fun for the person that I'm leaving behind. But it's also, but it's also hard because like, I think again, as long as, you know, it could have been better communicated, right, that this is, this is what you are going off to do. But I think it is, you know, within your bounds to like, find what you seek. Especially if you feel like you tried, you know, with the person that you were with. You know what I mean? But it's hard. I mean, these are these things. These things aren't easy. And, and it's. And even, even if you guys were broken up, broken up, you know, it's still a natural thing to like, you can't, you can't just. It's never a clean cut emotionally. There's never going to be a clean cat emotionally. And that's just, I think, part of life.

[Laura]

Yes, it's a part of life for sure. And that's another thing, like, I feel like since we try so much, I just know all the outcomes and I feel like that's why I'm not too upset or I'm afraid that I'm gonna like, get upset later and be like that, damn, my loss, you know. But I mean, I. I want to focus on myself and I honestly get myself lost in a relationship. So I feel like my goals will be a little bit put on hold because I have the love chemical overtaking me and wanting to spend time.

[Lyle]

But the, but now you. Why that seems to factor into the reason as to why you don't feel as bad is cuz. Yeah. You know, if after seven years you've kind of like done the whole doctor Strange, I've calculated several million, you know, I'm talking about calculated several million ways in which this could go and there's no way it works out. Yeah, yeah, it's. That's hard. That's hard. But seven year. I Mean, you met. When did you meet this guy? When you were. You met this guy when you were like, 16?

[Laura]

Yeah, about 16, 17.

[Lyle]

I mean. Yeah, bro, it's so weird. I was. I was talking to my mom yesterday about. About my grandparents. My grandparents met when my grandfather was 29 and my grandma was 19. And then they were just together for like 47 years. Like, that's how it used to be. That's how it used to be. Used to be, right. That you were like, you were fucking, like, 16 and you just get married and then it's like that for forever. And I was like, that's. That's crazy. Like, that used to be.

[Laura]

That's insane. Yes.

[Lyle]

So.

[Laura]

And they're still together.

[Lyle]

Yeah, I mean, that shit's crazy. But, you know, in. In the modern world. No, I don't think. I think it's good that you can recognize. Hey, the guy that I met when I was 16, maybe I'm actually a different person now after seven years, and maybe he's a different person now after seven years. And life has this natural transience to it that brings the natural pain to it, but that's. It's just a thing that you gotta kind of, I think, bear through in order to see what else could fulfill you, you know, or you could. Or you could just be with the Same guy since 16. A lot of people do that and, you know, they live, I guess, happily ever after in the suburbs or sometimes miserable or sometimes miserably ever after. But it doesn't sound like that's what you want. It sounds like you want to really go on. The life will present you with, like, hey, you want to take the ride and you can do it. It's hard. It's more painful than just like, setting up your life at 16 and being like, I'm gonna be with this person and do this and live here for the next 55 years.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

But I think it's worth it to take the ride. As long as, you know, you don't feel.

[Zach]

Like. You're.

[Lyle]

Feel like you're communicating properly and you're not hurting anyone.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100% can, because I. I feel really guilty about that. But, I mean, what can you do? I'm. I. I just won't do it again, you know, just communicate more. But, yeah, for sure. And, yeah, it just also sucks because every time we have a break, it'll be like a couple years. We wouldn't see each other, but every time I would see him, he would have a glow up where he would look Cuter and I'm like dang, like all the time. And I don't know, I, I guess it's a. I feel like the relationship, I was also maybe a little bit insecure. That played a bunch, that played a part too. And I may not be ready for a relationship. I realized with him because I think we swapped places because he was ready. He wasn't ready for one. He didn't know how to treat a girlfriend. But then we had like all these talks and communications and then now I'm realizing that hey, I was ready, but now I'm not because you let me down so much. I feel like it's hard to glow and grow in this environment. That hurt me, you know, Even though at the end it was exactly what I've been asking for. But it's like I had to ask for too much for too long and for like not the bare minimum but just for communication wise. And so I feel like we kind of swapped places in that regard. But yeah, no, I'm, I'm happy for him. And yeah, I, I'm happy to see like what the world holds me because I've been in the same spot for about since I met him. I still live with my parents and I'm saving up money but it's. I feel like it's a little hard. But I also am a student and working and I don't give myself as much credit even though. Yeah, but he's out and he has roommates and he has like a good set of friends he sees like every week, at least if not more. But like I see my friends like once a month but that gives me more time to work on my own goals and we just have different books and chapters or whatever analogy. We're just different lives. And I think I was just a little envious because he has the kind of life I want.

[Lyle]

What, in what way does he have the kind of life that you want?

[Laura]

Well, stability, friends for like he sees frequently and he has finances in check where I have friends but we don't see each other often too often as compared to him. But comparison is the thief of joy. But um, heard that. Yeah. And yeah, no, I don't really have my finances in check as much like I can't. Like when we broke up, when we had that little break, he got sad and bought himself a twelve thousand dollar bike and still has money left over, you know, and I can't do that like even like me spending $3 is like me guessing if I even is a need, you know, I'M like, in the huge saving mode. Okay, so.

[Lyle]

Well, yeah, it sounds like you're still, you know, kind of developing your life.

[Laura]

Yes, well, his life has already been developed and is developing more and more. Well, I mean, like, trying to.

[Lyle]

Yeah, but. But here's the thing, right? Is like, if you're gonna try not to keep too deep of tabs on this guy, it's not gonna. It's not fun.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Easier. Easier said than done. And I. Yeah, easier said than done. And I mean, like, I. I'm. I'm pulling this out of my ass because all these, like, it's kind of. It's an obvious thing, right, to. You don't want to keep tabs on your ex, but. Yeah, yeah, there's an emotional quote un. To every. Every. Everything that seems obvious is, of course obvious, but it's the. It's the emotional quotant of like, oh, it's so enticing. Especially now that you could just go on fucking Instagram and be like, oh, look at his life. It's going so well compared to mine. But you just. You just really can't afford to spend any time on that. Yeah, yeah, you got to do.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lyle]

And you also. You have a strong timeline to be able to do it too.

[Laura]

Yes, I. I do. I. I feel like I'm having a midlife crisis in a way, and. But I do have time. It's just that I want to be there, but I'm working towards it.

[Lyle]

What do you have midlife. What's your midlife crisis?

[Laura]

Well, I don't know. I just. Again, comparison is a thief of joy. Just. I just see people. And also I have older friends, too, so I just see where they're at and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna. I wanna be where you are. You know, just like a cute little house or, you know, just stable, cute relationship and stuff. But, I mean, I want to go. I don't want to live here in Kansas for all my life. So I'm. I don't know. I guess I'm just kind of don't know what my next step is after I get my education. Well, not education, just certification. Ish. Education. But I don't know, just. I feel like I should have had more money saved up by now, and I just wish I was in a more stable place, but. I don't know. Life will take me where it needs to go. So.

[Lyle]

What is your name again?

[Laura]

Laura.

[Lyle]

Laura. Well, thanks for sharing, Laura. You know, I think. Yeah, I agree with that sentiment. I agree with that. Sentiment. Sounds like you learned a lot from this.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you calling me. I mean, no, I appreciate you picking up. I've been listening to you for like five years, since like 2020. And so it's really nifty to be on this.

[Lyle]

So is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?

[Laura]

Love never hurts.

[Zach]

Thanks for calling.

[Laura]

Always say kind things.

[Lyle]

Always say, love never hurts. I like it. Yes. You had another thing. Give me the thing.

[Laura]

I know you said one time you don't like baths, but you gotta try watching a show. Don't bring a computer. I. My computer up doing this. But like if you have like a iPad or something.

[Lyle]

When did I say I don't. When did I say I don't like baths?

[Laura]

A while ago. I remember, I remember someone said, oh, a bath. And you're like, I. I can't really sit there. I think I like sitting down.

[Lyle]

I like to sit down in the shower, but I don't know about a bath.

[Laura]

Yeah. So you gotta try bubbles and maybe some Epsom salts. Depending like if you're a store, but. And maybe a couple candles. You got to try it life with. With your like comfort movie or something. It's just, just for like 25 minutes at least because.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Laura]

It's rejuvenating.

[Lyle]

I'll cons. I'll consider. I'll consider a bath next time I need to clean myself. Thank you for calling, Laura. You have a good rest of the day. Thank you for calling.

[Laura]

Yeah, you too. Bye.

[Lyle]

Good luck, dog.

[Laura]

Yeah, you too.

[Lyle]

That was Laura. Let's see here. Someone. I'm reading the chat. Someone said. I disagree. I think a week is too soon. Even if it were verbally agreed upon. I see it as a Do what you want, but that doesn't come without consequences. I mean, I. Yeah, I mean I. I think so. I think that makes sense, right? Is like it. They had. They had the week, but I. But also it just like when you. I think, yeah. I think it probably could have been communicated better that a break meant that I think it like it's, it's. It's where. I wouldn't necessarily call it like some people might disagree or whatever, but it's like. Yeah, yeah, it could have been. It could have been. It could have been communicated better. I think that they were like on a. On a real ass break where like they couldn't, you know, see where like, you know, they. They were free to see other people. But, you know, I mean, isn't the purpose of the break to be like, well, how do we feel not being from each other? Like, what's the result of this? And as painful as it is, the result of the break was I want to go, you know, live my life at this, at this music festival. That was the results of the break, which I think it's. I think it's different if. And, and yeah, it could have been communicated better for sure. But I mean, yeah, and then the person was like, in this chat was like, that doesn't come without consequences. I mean, yeah, they're right. Right. I mean, they found the results of the break and the results of the break went, you know, and led to the demise of the relationship. But the relationship should have been demised anyway because it's. It was, I guess, not fulfilling for the people involved. Anyway, what else is it? Where else is the chat saying, let's. Someone said friends are overrated. I don't think that's true. I think friends are the only thing. I think friends are the only real thing. All right.

[Podcast Announcer]

Hey, folks. The finals of TikTok's newest music competition. Next up, live music is finally going down. 12 aspiring musicians will gather to give the biggest performance of their career and lay their souls bare on the stage. It will be the biggest night in live music. And they've got a true powerhouse of judges on the panel, including Tom Pullman.

[Lyle]

Chief programming officer at iHeartRadio, Beata Murphy, program director of 102.7 Kiss FM, Justina.

[Podcast Announcer]

Valentine from MTV's Wild N Out, and viral guitarist John Dreddo. The judges will crown the next up live music winner. But get this, there's a democratic process where you have the power to put in your vote and decide who takes home the People's choice award. So don't miss a second and watch it all unfold live on TikTok on September 26th from 7 to 9pm Pacific Time, only on the official TikTok handle, ictkliveus. Again, that's ictocliveus. Together, let's witness the birth of the next music superstar.

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[Zach]

Hello.

[Lyle]

What's up?

[Zach]

Oh my God. Let me get off speakerphone for you.

[Lyle]

Do your thing.

[Zach]

I know the drill. How are you?

[Lyle]

I am, you know, how am I? My mood fluctuates so deeply. You know what I mean? You know that meme. There's a meme I see on Instagram that's like it's not a specific meme, but it's a meme genre of the the oscillation between it's all over and we're so back and I just feel that I don't know if this is something mental illness sometimes. Can I say, can I rant for like a second mental Illness is crazy because it sometimes feels like a very appropriate reaction to consciousness. You know, it feels, it's sometimes I. It sometimes feels like, like such a deeply appropriate way to exist. And I think that every human being, by nature of their own existence, has their own. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna refer to this as a natural born validity to their experience. Even if their experience is like fucking insane. Even if their experience is evil. Like, they're like, it has some kind of natural born validity just because they're of the fucking universe, you know, not validity. You know what I mean? Like, this is maybe to whatever. I'm getting off track. But yeah, I've been oscillating between everything, between. It's all over, we got. This is, we're done. And hey, we're actually, we're back, you know, and as I get older and I experience that oscillation over and over again, I. It's like when in the times where it's all over, I'm like, wait, I've been here before. I know that it's not forever, but then I. Fuck, I know that too. When things are. Feel okay. And so I don't know if that's. I don't know if that's how everyone feels. I don't know. I, like, do. I don't know if it's the normal. The more I learn about the world, the more I don't know if anything is normal. But the. Is it normal? Is it more normal to just. Are you supposed to feel the same way for a week? Is that, Is that what you're supposed to do? You feel the same way over the course of a week? Because I'll wake up being like, I, we can't do this. And then I'll, at some point, like at 3pm I'll be like, oh my God, I'm. I forgot that I'm incredible and life is amazing. 7pm, I'm hungry. And then 10pm, I'm like, all right, we'll try again tomorrow. What are your days? Like, what do you do? Who are you?

[Zach]

I mean, I think, okay, I can. I have a few points to what everything you just said, you're just. Yeah, I think in terms of like mental illness being a valid response to just like human existence. Like, I'm. I'm in academia, right? I finished grad school and now I'm at a university and for one of my classes, I had to take a class on evolution, right? And so human beings are pretty incredible. Like, we've evolved from like microscopic organisms all the way to what we are now. And what I've learned is, like, as amazing as we are, it's. It's like that one meme. It's like, sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe, you know? And so, like, we've evolved to the point where we survive. It's not supposed to be like, we're optimal. So it's not that we're going to be in this perfect mental state where our minds can sort of just protect ourselves from the world. And everything we go through, like, depression and anxiety and all these disorders that occur are going to happen just because, like, that's not going to stop us from surviving, you know, like, it's going to suck. Just like how if you sprain an ankle or tear a ligament or something, it's like, yeah, now you can't run or walk the way you used to, but like, 10,000 years ago, you'd still probably be able to hobble your way and hunter and gather, you know? So I think, like, just the way our mind reacts to the world, especially now in today's age, where we're just constantly taking in like, 40 years ago and probably even like 20, 25 years ago, you can kind of just shut yourself off from the world and just live in your own space and be your own person. And now that it's like you said, the fluctuations, right? It's. It's like you can wake up in the morning and be like, oh, today. Today's a great day, you know, and then by, like within an hour or two, you've read something or you've. You've seen something or you've done something, and now you just feel the complete opposite. And you're like, you know, maybe this day is kind of. Kind of scrapped. I mean, I've had one thing that I kind of grappled with was, and I don't know if this is the case for everyone, is I think we all have these sort of nostalgic views of, like, childhood, right, where, you know, things were so easy. You wake up, you go to school, you hang out, your friends, you're just kind of happy and. And just, like, chill down. I know. I'm sure some people had very difficult childhoods and very opposite views. But one thing I kind of realized was, like, I don't think that our default gear is happy. I think it's just kind of existing, you know, like, we just exist on the day to day. And I think for a long time I was like, oh, I'm not like, super happy every day. Like, is there Something wrong with me. But I was like, oh, maybe happy is not supposed to be where we're at at default. Maybe that's a point we get to and experience all these other emotions along the way. Then the next day you feel like trash.

[Lyle]

Yes. Yeah. And I'm coming to the conclusion. I've thought about this since I was like a little boy too. Is that. That's not only okay, but it's like, good. I'd rather. I'd rather have it like that. I'd rather. I, like, if I. Dude. When I'm like, fuck, man. I remember the last time I took mdma. Like, I really. I took like a real dose of MDMA was like three years ago or something. And I just remember being like, I want just. I just remember, like, I was just in the, on the, on the bathroom floor just being like that. I'm just gonna take it, you know, I'm just gonna take all of it. And I'm grateful for all of it. Even the horrible things. Even the. Really. And it's.

[Laura]

It.

[Lyle]

You can't be grateful for the horrible things when you're in them. When, like, when you're in those emotions now, when you're in those emotions, you can't be grateful for them. But what. But in a moment when they're. When you have a little bit of clarity, I. Yeah, I can get myself to be like, I just want all of it. Every. Every truly despondent, awful feeling and circumstance and whatever. I'm grateful to have had it because it's part of the world. I'm trying to. I think that's what I. How I want to kind of start viewing my emotions is like, just. I just want to take them all, even the fucking painful ones. It sucks you don't want to, but, yeah, just. Just take it all. Just accept it. This is that. And that's. I think that's a lot of cope. You don't want to. You know, I think I oscillate between, like, acceptance and resistance. And that's. That's like the yin yang of my life because you want a little bit of resistance. You know, I mean, this is. I, I've talked about this so much on this fucking show and in my life, but I, I. It's important to talk about is like, the whole concept of, like, you're enough. You know, we've talked. I've talked about this on here before, and I think there's. I think there's a good. I think you're enough is a. I take it with a Grain of salt. I take it as a yin yang thing. You know, there's like the, the white. I don't, I don't. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I fully understand the history of the symbol of the Yin yang, but I think I got an idea of it and that by look at be, you know, accepting yourself, being yourself, you are enough is a very yin Yang thing because you want to accept yourself as you are, but you don't want to. I don't. Sometimes I've eased too much. I've gotten fucked. I fucked myself because I've got. I've gotten too accepting of myself in such a way that where I slip and I'm. And I don't want to do anything hard anymore because I've accepted things as they are and it's easy and it takes me away from doing anything hard and I don't like that. But I also don't like being fucking stressed out all the time and, you know, wanting to, like, kill myself. So you got you. That's why it's a yin yang. It's not an all at once thing. I don't like when people say to you're enough because I don't like when people say you're enough because it comes with. There's a big fucking asterisk above it. Not for everyone. Not for everyone. Everyone's wired differently. I mean, I just have these, like, you know what? I have my own, like, ambitions and wiring and feelings and whatnot. And so I don't, I don't think, I don't think any piece of advice or any popular anything is truly applicable to everyone. Like, I saw, I saw a guy wearing a shirt that said the world is better with you in it. And I was like, dude, fuck you. What? Like what? Go. You know what if you walk by a big pedophile, you know, like, I hate that. It's all. I don't like anything where it's like, we apply this to everything. You know, everything is put a big ass, put a big asterisk on it all. I don't know. Unless if that guy. Unless if that guy is like a true. Unless if the person wearing that shirt is like, like a truly. And maybe they are. Maybe they. Maybe the person wearing that shirt is like a truly. They have this truly radical, radical acceptance ideology of like, I truly 100%. But this is not the, I think the popular world that we live in but like this radical ideology of like, I truly 100% believe that everyone is valid. Everything is valid. We're all, you know, beautiful and amazing.

[Zach]

I mean, there is. I know you're the therapy gecko, but there is a, like a theory or law in psychology. It's called optimal arousal theory. I think it's has another name, like you're Yerkes Dodson or something. Whoever came up with it, which basically says, like, humans want to seek this, like, optimal level of arousal. Because if you're too aroused and not like, necessarily sexually, but just like, mentally aroused, and you're just gonna be really anxious and you're gonna be stressed and you're. It's gonna just impact your performance, right? But then if you're not aroused enough, you're gonna just be bored and you're just gonna sit around and not be motivated to do anything. So I think it's this constant balancing act of, like, trying to find that optimal arousal where you, you know, you see it with people when they're doing their job, you see it when they're studying. You see it in sports. There's like this zone where you kind of just lock in and you can focus. And getting to that point is difficult, but once you get to it, it just makes things so much easier. But in terms of, like, just us all existing, I don't know. I also, like, kind of grapple with, like, what would happen if. If we just none of us existed. You know, there's global warming, there's war, there's all these things going on, and sometimes like, oh, my God, what. What is going to happen to us as a. As a species? You know, are we. Are we. Is it. Is it over? Are we. Are we gone? But other times, I'm kind of just like, you know what? Like, we weren't here millions of years ago. We probably won't be here in millions of years. So it's just kind of like, take. I kind of. I'm just trying to take each day at a time, you know what I mean? And in terms of, like, what you were saying earlier, the highs and lows, those are being in the lows as well as the highs and kind of being grateful for it. What I've learned over the last few years, and funny enough, I was. I was gonna talk to you about it, but you just had someone talk about an ex or a relationship, so.

[Lyle]

Oh, we can. We can. You can talk about it.

[Zach]

But I was just in a relationship that was really, like. It was very unhealthy. It was very, like. The highs are very high and the lows were very low. And I think what I've been struggling with was. Is just the fact that I like, to me it really meant something. And to the other person, I don't, I think I was just like a warm body. And so like it lasted a year, Like a year, year and a half. And I don't know, I just. And I, I ended it over a year ago because I was like, I can't do this anymore. Because again, it was just highs and lows. There was no stability.

[Podcast Announcer]

What was the.

[Lyle]

What, what was toxic about it?

[Zach]

Oh, man. Let me try to do this in a concise way because I don't want to give you a 30 minute spiel, okay? I would say, I would say the most toxic things about it were. One toxic thing was, was just like apologizing, right? Because it's. I've been kind of lucky to have really great family, great friends. At some point you're gonna get into a fight over something, whether it's big or it's small, it's silly, whatever the case may be. And I've been really lucky, like my family, right? Once every year or two, we'll get into some big fight over something super dumb and we'll yell and we'll scream and we'll. Some curse words will be thrown out and at the end of it, after like an hour or two, we're like, that was dumb. Why, why the hell did we just do that? And we apologize. And like when I apologize, it's like I try to understand what I did, why it impacted that person, and then I apologize and then I, I make sure not to do it again. I think that's what you have to take, accountability. Because if you just say sorry, it doesn't really mean too much, right? Whereas the girl I was dating, you know, she, whenever she apologized, she had, she didn't have parents who are in a great relationship. Like one thing she used to say, she's like, yeah, I tell my parents to get divorced all the time. I was like, whoa, okay, that's probably not healthy. And she had gotten out of a unhealthy relationship herself. I think it, it had ended up being like physical at the end. So she left that relationship. But whenever she, you know, said something hurtful or did something hurtful, she would, I would, I would call her out, I'd be like, hey, like you, you know, you said this thing or you did this thing, and it impacted me. And especially once it became like a pattern. Like once or twice I'll like one offs, I can kind of let go. You have to pick and choose your Battles. But with her, once it became a pattern, then I would bring it up to her and just be like, hey, like this happened. And she would, she would do like one of three things, right? Like, she would, she would like, deflect her, like, past relationship or her parents. She'd be like, yeah, I apologize, but the reason this happened is I have a lot to learn. I have a lot to learn about relationships or I have a lot to unlearn about relationships from my parents and things. I'm like, okay, that's fair. But once it happens a few times, I'm like, look, I understand those aspects were not great. But like, I'm. I'm not a lesson for you. I'm a human being with feelings, you know? Or she would, she would just blame it on something else. She would say something like, oh, yeah, you know, the reason I said something mean was I was talking to someone on the phone before we started talking, and, and they upset me. So I was just primed to get upset at you or something like that. Or she would just blame it on miscommunication. And I was like, I. I feel like we communicated pretty clearly about that, but it just felt like she would apologize and then kind of walk back the apology and just blame it on something else.

[Lyle]

So let me ask you this. So. So when this girl would hurt your feelings to do something, like, what if. What would you have wanted her to do in these apologies and in navigating these mistakes better? What would you. What would. What would have been felt more acceptable to you?

[Zach]

Like, literally, for me, I mean, it's two things. It's. One is a genuine apology. And then the second thing is, you know, taking steps to make sure you don't do it again in the future. Because if you apologize but you don't mean it, you're just saying it for the sake of saying it. It's not a real apology. And if you, if you apologize without action, then it also doesn't really mean too much. And one strange thing about her is I kind of saw that, like, how she apologized and how she reacted to things also depended on, like, who was around her. So I remember one time, like, she and I would. This is when we first started off dating, she and I would make plans to, like, do something, right? And she did this really strange thing where, like, let's say you and I were like, oh, like, let's hang out at 8 o' clock on Thursday, right? So she would hit me up at 8 o' clock on Thursday and she'd be like, Yeah, I can't really. I can't really do this. Sorry. And then just go, right. It's kind of like if you invited someone to a party and they showed up to your part, your. Your door when the party started and was like, yeah, I can't come to your party, and then just left. It was really. It was really bizarre. And so it happened a few times. And I'm like, look, I. And we're. We're making plans. I'm showing up to the plans. You're not showing up to the plans. I feel like my time's kind of being disrespected, you know? And when that happened, she was, like, next to her sister, right? Because I text her about it, and her sister kind of called her out, was like, yeah, why are you doing that? That's not cool. And so she, like, apologized, like, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize I was doing that. She deferred back to the past relationship. My. My ex used to do this. She used to disrespect my time, so I don't know why I'm doing it to you kind of thing. But other times when I would bring things up that I thought were valid, if she was with her brother, you know, he would try. He was a nice guy. He would, like, try to see things from my angle. But if she was with, like, you know, a certain friend, she was the kind of friend who would. Who would kind of always take her. Her friend's side, you know, she's not going to see things unbiased. So anytime I brought something up and she happened to be with that friend, then suddenly everything is, like, gotten 10 times worse, and she would kind of just turn everything around on me. You know, it's like if. If. If I said, hey, you. You know, you're. You've been, like, showing up late to things, or you just haven't been showing up, then she'd say, well, you. You know, actually, the real issue is, like, you know, you're not setting these things up or with enough time or things like that, and it would just sort of all get twisted around on me. I don't know. It was just a really strange relationship because I started off being friends with her. Like, we were friends for six months. We were in school together. And the person she was as a friend, like, she was such a funny, kind, intelligent, caring, charismatic, like, confident person. And that's how, like, if you ask anyone around her or any of her friends or her classmates, that's how they would describe her. But Then once I. We started dating, it's. There's another, like, psychological theory. It's called, like, I can't remember the exact name, but basically it's this idea that, like, you have your front stage self and your backstage self. Front stage is how you appear to the world, and then your backstage is, like, how you are when. When the show is over. So when we started dating, like, her front stage self is this, like, amazing person. Like, she and I would literally laugh for hours. You know, we used to say we could, like, watch paint dry and have an amazing time. That's all we needed. But once we started dating and I saw, like, the real, like, the real her and the more vulnerable aspects of her, it was the opposite of that. Like, we couldn't joke around anymore because it was like, things would get too sensitive. We used to, like, roast each other when we were friends. No more doing any of that. We can't. You can't. We can't make any mistakes. We can't do anything. And she, again, the person who she was in front of everyone was. Was all those things. And the person she was behind the scenes was just a very unhappy, very, like, I would honestly use the word miserable person, even when things are going very, very well in her life. You know, she was getting the job she wanted, her dream job at her dream company and. And she was living in the city she wanted to live in, and she had all these things going on, and I was struggling a bit, you know, after grad school and trying to get a job and trying to do all these things, but it just felt like a. It felt like the person I fell for and the person I dated were two completely different people. And she would also kind of do this thing where, like, when I. When I say something, I mean it. She wanted to live on the East Coast, I wanted to live on the west coast, right? But, like, for me, it was. It was always like, oh, like, we had gotten close enough to the point and I. At least I was serious enough that we had talked about things like, you know, potentially getting married, you know, family, things like that. So, like, really meant something to me. So she would say things like, oh, yeah, you know, like, you know, later down the line, maybe we can move to the West Coast. I know you want to move to the west coast and things like that, or just like, making these sort of, like, empty promises that kind of. To me, it felt like her being like, look at how good of a partner I am. I'm like, saying, I do these things for you, even Though she's not going to do it. Like, she got her dream job, like I said, on the east coast, and she got a job interview at a company on the west coast, right? Which was also a really good company. And she. She called me and she's like, yeah, like, I got an interview at this. This job on the West Coast. And I was like, she's like, should I do the interview? And I was like, wait, why are you like, is there a reason you want to take this interview? And she's like, oh, well, you know, I could be closer to you, silly. You know, I'm such, like, a huge simp for you. And I knew, like, in my mind, I was like, there's no chance in hell she's giving up her dream job for this. I know this for a fact. She's already accepted the other job. Like, it's not even possible for her to take this other job. But she was just kind of saying that. And that's kind of when I noticed that, like, pattern of her saying she would do things just, like, as an empty gesture. Whereas, like, my dumbass, I would have probably given up my dream job on the west coast to be closer to her and to be with her. And that was just kind of like a pattern throughout the relationship. And just like, anytime things were happening, just shifting the focus to her. And so I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense. That was a very long answer.

[Lyle]

No, that. That. That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense.

[Zach]

I guess the big issue is, like, I ended the relationship. There. There was some. I think the one thing that, like, kind of broke me in terms of, like, whenever she'd say, do hurtful things, I could kind of let it go because I'm not someone who, like, holds on to things, whereas she, like, if I said or did something hurtful, you know, the first time she was upset at me for, like, a week, and then the second time she was upset at me for a month. And the third time, she was upset at me for, like, over a month, and she was, like, just very cold and distant and detached. And I think the one thing that broke me was I was, like, applying to jobs, and. And things were just not going well, and I was just, like, really down. But I was trying to support her because she needed a lot of emotional support. You know, like, every day she was venting about her school or her upcoming job or her family or finances or something. So we talk every day, and, like, I'd say if we talk for, like, two hours. An hour. That was just her venting. And so I kind of just had to play. You know, I didn't. I definitely didn't do as good a job. I kind of played your role, like, every day for. For a year or so. And one day I just went to her, and I was just like, man, I've just been feeling, like, really down. Like, I don't know if I should go see a therapist or what, because she saw a therapist and she had dealt with depression before, and I was like, I've just never had this feeling. I've just felt so down. And I feel like I've been working so hard at these goals, and they're just not coming into fruition. And I'll never forget she, like, looked me in the eyes, like, with this cold stare, and she's like, I know you're going through a lot, but I wish you would think about how it impacts me. And I was like, whoa. Okay. So, yeah, that kind of broke the camel's back.

[Lyle]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And there was a million other things, but it's just hard because, again, all that was so real for me. And, like, I feel like I fell in love with the per. Like, with the masked version of her that she showed to the world. And then once we started dating, I got the opposite of that. But I was like, oh, I love this person. I care about this person. I want them to do well. So I kind of just stuck around. And so now, like, my brain is just kind of, like, trying to detach those two people because part of me is like, that person's still there. And, like, you know, what if you made a mistake? What if you should have stayed? What if you shouldn't have broken up with her? You know, you had such good times. And the other part of me is like, dude, you. You got out. Like, leave, run. Never, never think about it again. Just. You're out, you know? Is that cognitive dissonance?

[Lyle]

Yes, yes, yes, I know. I know what you mean. Yep. This fucking shit's hard. Are you dating anyone new now?

[Zach]

I dated someone else, and she was a, like, really amazing person. She was such a. Such a nice girl. We were just two very different people. And I'm glad I got to date her. And I'm glad I met her, which, with my other ex, I. Not quite the same feeling, but I just remember feeling, like, secure in that relationship. Whereas with my ex, I felt like I kind of. I was always walking on eggshells. If I say or do something wrong, she's just gonna Break up with me. Because, yeah, she would, she would say, like, especially towards the beginning, she'd be like, if I said something wrong, she'd be like, my last relationship was a lot of work and I don't want a lot of work. And it was, it just like, kind of felt like, you know what I mean?

[Lyle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm glad. Yeah, I'm glad you're beyond that.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah. The new, the, the. The last girl I dated, though, like, I remember one time I said something that upset her and she was upset and I apologized and then I was like, oh, like, I. It felt like a trauma response. You know, like when you're a kid and you're parent, you know, if you do something, if you break something, you feel like your parents going to hit you or something like that.

[Lyle]

Right.

[Zach]

So I've said her and I was like, oh, my God, what's she going to do? And she's like, she's like, zach, like, I'm not going to yell at you. I'm not going to be super upset with you. You. You messed up and you apologize and now just make sure you don't do it again. And I was like, oh, my God. This is what, like, a healthy relation looks ra. Relationship looks like. I had no. It was just so weird not being scared all the time, you know? And I feel like my brain, part of my brain is just still kind of scared of this person and also like, just kind of sad and upset that, like, a. I was in that relationship for so long. Not. Maybe not that long relative, some people, but, like, I was in that relationship and I let myself be treated like, be treated that way. And on the other hand, it also, like, really hurts that someone I genuinely, like, loved and cared about and would have done anything for treated me that way. So, you know, you live, you live and you learn. And now I've learned. I'm still learning what a healthy relationship looks like and trying to. Because there. I made plenty of mistakes in that relationship as well, and things I wish I could change or take back. But I think you just try to become a better, better version of yourself and a better, you know, person for your partner or. And I know that sounds super cliche, but it's like, you can't just, like, be the same person your whole life, you know? It's gotta be kind of boring.

[Lyle]

Yeah, of course. What's your name again, man?

[Zach]

Zach.

[Lyle]

Zach. Thanks for sharing all this stuff. Yeah, I, I, you know, it's making me think very deeply. I don't know if I have a lot of feedback on it right now, but it's making me think very deeply. And I'm glad you shared it because I think it definitely gives a lot of context and a lot of perspective to people who are listening and thinking about, you know, their own past relationships or current relationships and whatnot. And it's definitely, I think, gonna be a relatable thing for people.

[Zach]

Absolutely. I mean, thanks for listening. I think the one thing I'll say to, like, anyone, to the. To the people listening is, and I know this, this is gonna sound silly, and I know it's very difficult to do, but if you're in a relationship that you think is not healthy, take a step back and look at it. If you're like, friend was in it, if your sibling was in it and their partner was doing the things to them that your partner is doing to you. And I know it's very hard to be like, these are not healthy. These are not right. But, like, the first step is recognizing. And then once you recognize, then you can take steps past that to either try to fix a relationship or get out of it and preserve yourself. Because we're at the end of the day, you know, we have ourselves and we have to be kind to ourselves and kind to each other. So thanks for listening, man.

[Lyle]

Is there anything else you want to say to the people, the computer before we go, Zach?

[Zach]

No. Maybe just. Free Palestine. Shout out, my boy. Zoron. Zoron. Premier. Eat your vegetables. Don't take Tylenol. Apparently now, because now that causes autism. It doesn't. Don't believe them. But thanks for listening.

[Lyle]

Hey, take care, Zach. Thank you.

[Zach]

All right, bye.

[Podcast Announcer]

Hey, folks. The finals of Tick Tock's newest music competition. Next up, live music is finally going down. 12 aspiring musicians will gather to give the biggest performance of their career and lay their souls bare on the stage. It will be the biggest night in live music. And they've got a true powerhouse of judges on the panel, including Tom Pullman.

[Lyle]

Chief programming officer at iHeartRadio, Beata Murphy, program director of 102.7 Kiss FM, Justina.

[Podcast Announcer]

Valentine from MTV's Wild N Out, and viral guitarist John Drake. The judges will crown the next up live music winner. But get this. There's a democratic process where you have the power to put in your vote and decide who takes home the People's Choice Award. So don't miss a second and watch it all unfold live on TikTok on September 26th from 7 to 9pm Pacific Time only on the official TikTok handle ictoclive us again. That's @tiktokliveus. Together, let's witness the birth of the next music superstar.

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[Lyle]

Good morning. To whom am I speaking?

[Angie]

This is Angie.

[Lyle]

Angie. Angie. We talked. When do we talk? We talked recently, right?

[Angie]

We talked Thursday, I believe. Yeah, I was in New York at the time.

[Lyle]

Oh, beautiful. Okay. So how did the rest of your New York trip go?

[Laura]

It was so good.

[Angie]

It was very exhausting just because like the hours are so long, like being on site from 9 and 10am to about midnight. So it's long. But New York never sleeps. So we so like went out. I went into Times Square and that was fun. And my dumb ass was walking around with a white claw and I got a citation. So. You got a citation?

[Lyle]

Well, you got a public drinking citation.

[Angie]

I did.

[Lyle]

That's so.

[Angie]

There's no way.

[Lyle]

That never happened. That never happens. That's so up.

[Angie]

I was like, I passed by so many people drinking, why am I the only one getting it? And so I was like, are you serious? And then even my friend next to me was clearly drinking a beer. And the cop was like, are you. Is that beer? My friend takes like 10 seconds to answer and says no. And then so the cop goes back to me, I'm like, seriously? And he just continues to write this long ass paragraph on this citation. And then I was like, you're taking so long. So I just finished my white claw when he's giving me my citation because I spent money on it.

[Lyle]

How much was the, how much was the citation for?

[Angie]

It was honestly so dumb because I was like, I'm clearly from Arizona. This is my first time ever in New York. So I, you know, like, I can't, I'm not going to come back for whatever. And he said, I just have to scan the barcode and pay like 25. I'm like, that's annoying. It was just took. Yeah, it was very annoying. Yeah. And I worked the whole music event and it was fun. And I went to. I pretty much stayed up all night on Sunday night and then I slept for about an hour and I got up at 7:30 to take the subway to where to go Central park. And that was really fun.

[Lyle]

Did you? I know when we talked you were talking about overcoming like social anxiety. Do you feel like you were able to do that successfully?

[Angie]

I think I put myself out there. Yes. I purposely like went out with people who are new to me, which I wouldn't really be, you know, normally do or comfortably do. So, you know, I made sure to put myself out there and went out with people that were new to me and I got to like meet new people in the industry and Introduce myself and talk to them and really just ask questions and hang out and, you know, really just getting to know them a bit more and just doing my best at talking. And then this whole weekend, I've. And then, well, it's just been today, and now I'm, like, overthinking. I'm like, did I say the okay things? What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? And I'm just like. I keep telling myself, well, it's over, so there's literally nothing I can do about it now. But I believe I. I did put myself out there a lot more than.

[Laura]

I thought I would.

[Angie]

And I feel like I'm. I'm proud of myself and just, you know, striking up conversations, keeping conversations going or asking questions and just like, you know, walking around and introducing myself to oops. To new people and, you know, directors and. And whatnot.

[Zach]

So I'm.

[Angie]

I'm pretty proud of myself for that.

[Lyle]

Pretty good. Pretty good.

[Angie]

But. But I just hope I said words that were made sense and not awkward and dumb because, like, I.

[Lyle]

Hey, like I said last time we talked, even if you did it, then it doesn't even.

[Angie]

Does it matter?

[Lyle]

Matter? Honestly, even the way we talked on Thursday, I think the day after we talked, I went to some thing and I had some social interaction where I was like, wow, I just said a bunch of really stupid things. That was bad. Walked home, I felt really bad. And then I thought about you. I really. I thought about you, actually. This is. I forgot. This is all coming back to me. Yeah, I thought about you because I was like, I just yesterday told someone that it's fine, and so I'm like, all right, well, I'll just take that advice. I'll just, you know, I'll just. I'll just be crazy. Who cares? You know?

[Angie]

Yeah, exactly. Anyway, be crazy together, so. But overall, good trip, and I'm really proud of myself. And I was like. Had so much just nervousness leading up to it and just kind of like being with co workers for five days. And I was like, well, what do we talk about? What do we talk about? Or, you know. But honestly, it was super fun, and my roommate was fun as well. And the last thing I wanted to do was to Central park, and I did that, and I thought that would be scary because I did that by myself as well. And I walked in a pretty little bit of a sketchy neighborhood, but I waited until the sun came up. So. But I was in Long Island City, and then Astoria. I walked through and just took the Subway to the Central park. And that was really fun and did not get a citation there. So that's good.

[Lyle]

I'm glad that you had a good time. I appreciate the update. This was good. And yeah, like I said, that call affected me too. So I'm glad we could have this symbiotic experience with one another.

[Laura]

Hell yeah.

[Lyle]

Is there anything. Is there anything else you want to say to the people at the computer before we go, Angie?

[Angie]

Absolutely not. Have a beautiful week. Love you all.

[Lyle]

Thank you, Angie. Thank you for. Thank you for the update. Bye, Angie.

[Zach]

Of course.

[Lyle]

That was Angie. That was Angie. And this has been the Therapy Gecko podcast. Thanks for listening. Lots of things to say and think and do in the world. Oh man, this costume smells like shit. I gotta. I really gotta wash it at some point. I really gotta wash this suit. It smells really, really awful. Anything else? Do I have any other closing thoughts? Nothing that's that important to say. I'm not gonna go on a whole rant about Fresca again. There's a few half empty water bottles on my thing. Oh yeah, if. Well, I guess if you're listening to this on Wednesday, I'm gonna put this video on Spotify because I put these videos on Spotify now, but I just made a little a mini mini interview documentary gecko video thing at the gathering of the Juggalos that's out this morning. So you should go on my YouTube channel, YouTube.comlylefore, and check that out. But other than that, I don't have anything else to say. I'm leaving on Saturday to go on a. To go record another video. This will be an interesting one. I'm gonna keep it under wraps where I'm going, but I think it'll. I think you'll want to watch this one that pro. I probably won't. That video will be out in like a month. But I think this will be one of. One of the more ambitious Gecko videos I have made over my stint doing this. So I'm excited about that. But anyway, thank you guys for listening. Geck bless. See you again on Sunday's episode. Appreciate you folks. Bye bye.

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[Lyle]

Only on Prime Video.

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[Lyle]

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[Zach]

Not a problem.

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[Lyle]

Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

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[Gemma Spaeg]

This is an iHeart podcast.