"I'M ADDICTED TO LOVE"

Summary

Therapy Gecko – Episode: "I'M ADDICTED TO LOVE"

Date: September 14, 2025
Host: Geck (Lyle Forever)
Podcast: Therapy Gecko (iHeartPodcasts)

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Overview

In this lively, reflective, and heartfelt episode, Therapy Gecko takes calls from three individuals exploring issues related to addiction, relationships, resilience, and the search for meaning. Geck, the unlicensed “lizard psychologist,” uses his signature blend of humor, empathy, and irreverence to delve into his callers' experiences—whether it’s a recovering addict wrestling with love addiction, a young woman adjusting to progressive vision loss, or a globetrotting student seeking meaning after attaining his dream.

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Caller 1: Sterling — Addicted to Love (and More)

[02:48 – 22:03]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Sterling's Background and Addictions:

  • Sterling describes himself as being in recovery for five months, clean from fentanyl and opiates, but still struggling with "addictions" to sex, love, and women. He refers to his addictive pattern with the acronym "SLOW" (Sex, Love, Opiates, Women).
  • He notes his codependency, constant need for communication and female attention, and describes it as “an addiction to attention.”
  • Sterling identifies with behaviors like talking to multiple women at once and being deeply affected by "ghosting."

• Therapy, Codependency, and Sobriety:

  • He shares his upbringing as a latchkey kid and connects these childhood experiences with current issues seeking validation and companionship.
  • Sterling’s therapist is perplexed by his ability to give up opiates but not the need for romantic attention.
  • His recovery includes active volunteer work—Heroin Anonymous, AA, working with special needs, volunteering at kitten adoptions—which he credits with supporting his sobriety.

• Sex vs. Substance Use: Emotional Sobriety:

  • Sterling discusses trying “Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous,” his discomfort with extreme stories there, and the difference between abstaining from substances vs. relationships.
  • The conversation explores what defines sexual addiction and whether preoccupation with sex is universal or problematic only at certain thresholds.
  • Geck and Sterling muse on the biological imperatives of sex and love, and society’s attempt to "sterilize" messy human emotions through therapy.

• Looking Forward and Filling the Void:

  • Sterling expresses ambition to focus on himself, echoing the idea that “you can't love somebody until you truly love yourself,” and acknowledges how lost love had previously triggered self-sabotaging behavior like relapse.
  • Both reflect on the universality of “filling the hole”—through love, drugs, friendship, or achievement.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Addictive Patterns:
  “My drugs of choice are SLOW – sex, love, opiates, women. And I really only abstain from the opiates.”
  – Sterling, [03:35]

• On Seeking Attention:
  “I grew up alone a lot... So, it's like I seek attention because I didn't have it as a kid, which I feel like a lot of people do.”
  – Sterling, [03:44]

• On Emotional Sobriety:
  “Anytime I would, like, have sex with somebody or even just talk to people, they call it acting out, right?”
  – Sterling, [09:24]

• Geck's Perspective on Love and Therapy:
  “You know, there's something very sterile in all of this... Life is not sterile. It's beyond our attempts to sterilize it with therapeutic whatever.”
  – Geck, [15:25]

• On Universality of Filling Voids:
  “Isn't a lot of life filling a hole? Like, is having friends filling a hole? Is achieving things? It's all filling a hole of some kind.”
  – Geck, [18:54]

• Closing Slogan:
  “It's better to be a dopeless hope addict than a hopeless dope addict.”
  – Sterling, [21:27]

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Caller 2: Jessica — Navigating Life with Progressive Blindness

[25:56 – 53:46]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Diagnosis and Living with Stargardt Disease:

  • Jessica, age 19, is going blind due to Stargardt disease, a rare genetic disorder. She describes fluctuating central vision and the eventual loss of all but peripheral sight.

• Challenges of Visibility (“Invisible” Disability) and Bullying:

  • Jessica recounts being bullied in high school because peers didn’t believe she was blind, especially since symptoms weren't always visibly apparent.
  • She conveys the alienation, harassment, and issues of trust this caused, and its lasting emotional impact.
  • Her story includes a striking anecdote:
    “I swung at her, and, well, I missed. So, you know... what does that tell you?”
    – Jessica, [40:04]

• Communities: Blind Camps and Friendship:

  • Jessica highlights the value of blind camps for children and teenagers, government-funded programs that teach independent living skills, braille, technology, and facilitate social connections.
  • She shares comical and poignant stories from camp, touching on drama, social hierarchies (or lack thereof), and how other senses do not automatically become heightened—you have to “learn to utilize those things.”

• Pursuing a Career:

  • Despite her disability, Jessica is determined to become a nurse, pursuing an LPN program with support from family and friends.

• Friendship and Difficult People:

  • Jessica talks about a “frenemy” named Natalie, exploring the emotional complexity of adolescent friendships and letting go of anger as she matures.

• Advocacy and Perspective:

  • She stresses the need for compassion and understanding around disabilities:
    “Just, you know, everyone be nice. Just be nice to disabled people. I feel like people are either overly nice or they're overly ignorant.”
    – Jessica, [53:17]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Resilience:
  “I hope one day these people that harassed me will realize what they had done—and that blindness is a spectrum.”
  – Jessica, [41:39]

• On Learning Skills:
  “It's not like you go blind and suddenly you have a heightened sense of touch, smell, hearing. You have to learn to utilize those things.”
  – Jessica, [37:28]

• Humor at Blind Camp:
  “My group started building the Twin Towers, the plane, and the Pentagon... the 9/11 jokes went crazy at the second blind camp I went to.”
  – Jessica, [44:49]

• On Letting Go of Teenage Drama:
  “One day you'll be an old lady... you'll realize that when you were 17, not only were you incredibly immature and stupid, but everyone around you was, too... You can either recognize that and let go of your anger now, or hold onto it forever and die.”
  – Geck, [48:15]

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Caller 3: Jared — Chasing Dreams, The Bittersweetness of Achievement

[57:22 – 74:26]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Phases of Fulfillment and What Comes “After the Dream”:

  • Jared shares his recent achievement of landing a job in New York City—a dream he’d held since first visiting in 2019.
  • He notes a subsequent feeling of “what’s next?”, having spent years fixated on this goal.

• Life Transitions, Travel, and Living Fully:

  • Jared is in a transitional period: wrapping up graduate school in North Carolina, planning travels before relocating to NYC.
  • The pair reflect on the unique, transient joys of student life, and the importance (yet futility) of trying to savor passing moments.

• Romantic Serendipity and Movie Moments:

  • Jared describes a “movie-script” encounter: reconnecting as an adult with a woman he's known of since childhood, only to have to leave soon after forming a connection.

• Travel, Bucket Lists, and the Search for Meaning:

  • Much of Jared’s fulfillment comes through travel; both he and Geck discuss the unending allure of exploring the world—even acknowledging there’s “probably a lot of places I’ll die not having gone to.”
  • Geck notes with age, his circle of caring narrows, but travel remains a lasting passion.

• Philosophy of Enjoyment and Letting Go:

  • The conversation closes with mutual recognition of life’s fleetingness. Geck reminds Jared:
    “Whether you enjoy it or you don’t enjoy it, it passes anyway. So I guess might as well enjoy it. You can never hold onto anything. It always escapes your grip.”
    – Geck, [72:50]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Realization After Achievement:
  “It was, like, so surreal... I finally accomplished this dream... and right now I’m just kind of like, all right, what else is next?”
  – Jared, [58:48]

• On Travel’s Lasting Value:
  “That’s the one thing I’ll just continue to do—traveling and seeing stuff. So I’m with you on that.”
  – Geck, [66:25]

• On Savoring Fleeting Moments:
  “That’s the weird thing about life—it’s very transient and you try to make sure that you can enjoy things while you can. But also... whether you enjoy it or you don’t... it passes anyway.”
  – Geck, [72:50]

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Memorable Moments & Themes (with Timestamps)

• On Biological Drives and Therapy Sterility:
  “[The biological] meaning of life is to have sex... there’s something very sterile in all of this. Life is not sterile.”
  – Geck, [14:44], [15:25]

• “If someone is down to clown, we're going to the circus.”
  – Sterling, [11:34]

• On High School Bullying and Resilience:
  “I swung at her, and, well, I missed. So, you know what does that tell you?”
  – Jessica, [40:04]

• Blind Camp Humor
  “My group started building the Twin Towers, the plane, and the Pentagon...”
  – Jessica, [44:49]

• On Achieving and Letting Go:
  “Whether you enjoy it or you don't... it passes anyway. So I guess might as well enjoy it.”
  – Geck, [72:50]

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Summary Table of Callers

| Caller | Main Topic(s) | Key Quote | Timestamp | |-----------|-----------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Sterling | Love addiction, recovery, self-work| "My drugs of choice are SLOW—sex, love, opiates, women." | 03:35 | | Jessica | Disability, bullying, resilience | “Just be nice to disabled people.” | 53:17 | | Jared | Dreams, travel, new life phases | “I finally accomplished this dream... what’s next?”| 58:48 |

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Tone & Style

The episode skillfully blends irreverent humor, candor, and genuine care. Geck’s offbeat, inquisitive probing—often turning to therapeutic meta-commentary—gives callers space to reflect. Vivid anecdotes and sharp one-liners keep the mood buoyant even when topics are heavy.

Essentially, this episode is a meditation on how we seek connection and meaning, how we heal, and how we move forward—sometimes by filling our holes with more holes, but, hopefully, with as many positive things as possible.

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Further Listening

• Listeners interested in codependency, addiction, overcoming bullying, and finding one's path through adversity will find the episode especially resonant.
• The episode’s candid caller stories exemplify why Therapy Gecko stands out: unfiltered, oddly moving, and never quite what you expect.

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Transcript

[Jemma Spake]

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[Sterling]

Hello Holy I'm actually on with Geck.

[Geck]

What up, baby? How you doing?

[Sterling]

What up? I'm better now that you're here.

[Geck]

Sick. How's life, buddy? What's going on? Hit me. Hit me in the balls. Gets get crazy. Come on, baby. Come on. Come on, man. Hit me. Sir. Hit me. Hit me. Hit me.

[Sterling]

All right, so I figure I should talk about my codependency because that's what I talk to about with my actual therapist.

[Geck]

Sure. Yeah. Sure, sure.

[Sterling]

Yeah. So let's see. So I'm in recovery. I'm, like, five months clean off of fentanyl.

[Geck]

Congrats.

[Sterling]

Thank you. I normally tell people my. My drugs of choice are slow, which is sex, love, opiates, and women.

[Geck]

Oh.

[Sterling]

And I really only abstain from the opiates. And my therapist is like, I don't understand how you could literally say that you'd rather eat dog than do dope again, but you can't abstain from women. And I normally reply with a joke. I'm like, well, you know, it's hard when they just throw themselves at me, but I feel like. Like I grew up alone a lot. Like, I was a latchkey kid, you know? Like, I make sure I was up in time for school, got home, did my homework, fed myself, showered, make sure I was in bed for, you know, so it's like I seek attention because I didn't have it as a kid, which I feel like a lot of people do, but.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Sterling]

What are your thoughts on that?

[Geck]

What are my thoughts on. What are my thoughts on that? Oh, my God. Slow, interesting. Sex, love, opiates, women. Opiates. Feels like it's the odd one out of that acronym.

[Sterling]

Yeah.

[Geck]

Why opiates? Why is opiates finding itself in that acronym?

[Sterling]

Well, it's like I went. I went to rehab, like, for the opiates, and then come to find out that, like, my codependency was, like, a bigger issue. Like, I'm addicted to attention.

[Geck]

Yeah. What it code. The whole codependency thing. What does that look like, really? Like, what is. How does that manifest itself? A codependency addiction?

[Sterling]

I, like, constantly, like, have to be talking to somebody, if not, like, multiple women, because I get that dopamine hit from the attention.

[Geck]

Yeah.

[Sterling]

But on the, like, negative end of the spectrum, like, if I get ghosted or, like, I don't hear back for a bit, it, like, just up my day, and it's like, I could, like, a we. A. A week or two ago, I went on this date, and, like, I didn't hear back from this girl for, like, a couple days before our date. It went really well, but, like, I was, like, really shitty. I was like, I'm too gorgeous to be ghosted.

[Geck]

Is. By the way, I. Can I just say this? And is this not like everyone? Is this not most people? Do most people not? And I'm not going to. I don't think most. I don't think it's a universal experience to, like, need. I mean, there's, of course, a lot of people there, like, want to be talking to multiple people at once, but a lot of people only want to be talking to one person at once. But is it not a kind of a universal experience to feel shitty when you've been ghosted?

[Sterling]

I feel like it is, you know.

[Geck]

So why. What do the opiates. Are the opiates just. Just a thing on the sidelines, or are they intertwined in the. The sex and love?

[Sterling]

Well, it's like, I feel like it was intertwined. Like, I didn't realize it at the time, but after, like, going to treatment and stuff, it's like, if I was able to get high and have that sense of ease and comfort, I didn't have to seek out attention.

[Geck]

Interesting. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Jared]

Hmm.

[Geck]

Hmm. Yeah. So it's like you're just kind of trying to fix some chemical maladjustment in your brain, whether it be through drugs or through another person.

[Sterling]

Right.

[Geck]

Interesting. And so how has it been being five months sober?

[Sterling]

It's pretty cool. Like, my. They. They call it like a pink cloud of early sobriety where you're like, yeah, this is dope that's kind of coming gone. Yeah, I'm coming up on, like, half a year, so now it's just life. So I'm trying to live life on life terms. I do a lot of, like, volunteer work because they say that's a good way to stay sober. I, like, help lead, like, Heroin Anonymous meetings, which Heroin Anonymous just kind of encompasses, like, all opiates. And I do, like, aa, like, any sort of, like, anonymous program. I volunteer with the special needs, like, twice a month, and once a week, I go to Petco and I volunteer with, like, the place where they have the kitten adoptions.

[Geck]

That's. That all. Sounds nice, man.

[Jared]

Yeah.

[Geck]

Have you been enjoying the five months of being sober?

[Sterling]

I have. I've made, like, a move to a new town. I'm in. I'm in Prescott, Arizona, so it's. All my friends up here are sober, you know, I don't know where to find dope. Up here, you know, so you. New geography, you know, just a new start.

[Geck]

And what are you. What does sobriety look like in terms of, like, sex? Are you, like, abstaining from, like, having sex with anyone?

[Sterling]

So they call that emotional sobriety. So it's like, anytime that I would, like, have sex with somebody or even if I'm, like, talking to people, they call it acting out, right? They have. They have a Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, which I went for a bit, and then this dude was talking about how he fucks dogs, and I was like, this is not. I don't think this is for me.

[Geck]

Wow.

[Sterling]

Yeah.

[Geck]

You know what's crazy? I bet, like, can I ask you something? And I know this is probably an invasion of a sacred space, but, you know, when a guy start. When a guy is in a meeting and he starts talking about having sex with dogs, is everyone else in the meeting like, oh, shit. Even I am. Like, that's a lot.

[Sterling]

I feel like they're thinking it. But you're not, like, supposed to, like, comment on something that's. Well, I mean, you'd like. You can, but you can't, like, direct it at them. It's called cross talk. If I interrupt. Yeah. If I interrupt what somebody's sharing or if I go to my share and I'm like, the. You know, or like, I've never thought. You know what I mean? Like.

[Geck]

There'S this comedian named. There's this comedian named Greg Rogel, and I think he. He did this joke on an episode of Louis, or maybe I just saw him do the joke. I don't know. But he has this joke about Tiger woods where he's like, you know, they're. They're on the news calling Tiger Woods a sex addict. These were beautiful women he was having sex with. Now, if he was having sex with, like, a dead chicken, I'd be like, wow, that guy is addicted to sex.

[Sterling]

Yeah. When. When I went to treatment, they were asking me about, like, my sexuality and, like, promiscuity and stuff. I was like, well, I'm pansexual. And I guess it's like, you know, when it comes to, like, sleeping with somebody. I. I literally told my therapist. I'm like, if somebody's down to clown, we're going to the circus, you know?

[Geck]

Interesting.

[Sterling]

I'm gonna get mine. And she was like, I think you might be a sex addict.

[Geck]

If someone is down to Go. Say that again. If someone is down to clown, I'm going to the circus.

[Sterling]

Yeah. If somebody's down to clown, we're going to the circus.

[Geck]

Yeah, I mean, I've lived a lot of my life like that too. Does that make someone a sex addict?

[Sterling]

I mean, are you preoccupied with sex or like relationships?

[Geck]

What does preoccupied mean?

[Sterling]

Like, if you think about it often for more than like 30 seconds at a time.

[Geck]

Do I think about sex for more than 30 seconds at a time?

[Sterling]

Multiple times throughout the day, probably.

[Geck]

Is that not normal?

[Sterling]

I mean, I thought it was.

[Geck]

What, how many? What's. Define multiple?

[Sterling]

I, I don't. They like never told me like an exact number, but it's like if I'm preoccupied with it, is that.

[Geck]

Well, you know, what's about is the thing I saw some tick tock that was like, humans are our, our only biological derivative is to have sex. I mean, if there was truly a God, like the only actual meaning of life is to have sex. Like, that's the only like inherent one. So it makes sense. Yeah, that's the only, that's the thing that our bodies are hardwired to do is to. We're biologically programmed for the meaning of life being to, to eat and to have sex and reproduce. That's our like biological hardware or whatever programming. So of course it's going to take up, you know, a lot of brain space, is it not?

[Sterling]

Yeah, I think so.

[Geck]

Are you thinking about sex right now?

[Sterling]

I mean, we're talking about it, but.

[Geck]

But like, are you thinking. Yeah, well, we're talking about like, are you like thinking about it in like a horny way?

[Sterling]

Oh, no.

[Geck]

Okay, me neither. But I, you know, I was. We are talking about it. Yes. Which is a step above thinking about something is talking about something. If I talked about sex multiple times a day, all the time, that would probably be a lot.

[Sterling]

Yeah.

[Geck]

Okay, let me think, let me think, let me think, let me think. So what's the future plan for you, sir?

[Sterling]

The future plan? Like just in general or like with this subject?

[Geck]

Let's start, start with, with this subject and then we can go into general.

[Sterling]

So with this subject, I feel like it would be good for me to focus more on myself and not just like trying to get some tail or, you know, like trying to find somebody to, to fill the hole within myself that I need to, you know, do on my own. You know, like they say you can't love somebody until you truly love yourself. Because they come, they become like my whole world. Like, I do the whole like, princess treatment, which probably isn't a good thing because then it's like if they're, if I like, like If I lose them, I lose, like, a part of myself which isn't healthy.

[Geck]

Yeah, yeah, I know, but, like, isn't that fucking. That's so stupid, you know? I'm sorry to react so strongly, but it's like, yeah, well. But it's like, of course that's. It's. It's the one thing. And I was talking about this. I was ranting about this on the podcast recently, but it's so stupid to be like, that's not healthy. Because it's like, you know, it's like saying, like, oh, if my wife died and left. If my wife left me or cheated on me or died, I would feel like losing a part of myself. And that's not healthy. It's like, what. It's fucking. This is life, you know, it's supposed to. I think. I don't know, there's something about, like, therapy and about psycho whatever and about. You know, there's something very sterile in all of this. Do you know what I mean? Do you. Yeah, Picking up what I'm saying. Like, I need to have a perfect emotional whatever with everything. And it's like, life is not sterile. It's beyond our attempts to sterilize it with therapeutic whatever. That's at least how I feel in this moment. So I think it's. I don't know if there is a correct way to love. There's things that are glaringly unhealthy and glaringly toxic, but then there's things that are just like, well, yeah, you form a connection with someone because of oxytocin or whatever, and when they are no longer there, it sucks, you know, and when they are there, it is good. And there's no. And a lot of the emotional sterilization is just attempting to. Attempting to avoid the sucks part. But, yeah, I mean, that's. That. That doesn't happen. You know, there's no reason to believe that you. You should be exempt from things occasionally sucking, you know? Yeah, I mean. Yeah, go ahead.

[Sterling]

I guess what. I would like an example of it being unhealthy. So, like, I was with this girl for, like, four and a half years, and I was, like, saving up her ring and stuff, and it didn't work out. You know, Like, I was using at the time, and, like, she was just like, I can't do this. She actually. She, like, was prepared to leave me, and then, like, stayed with me, like, through, like, the first time that I tried to get sober, which shows, like, she actually, like, really cared. And then when we ended up splitting up, I was gonna like use the money that I saved for the ring to go to Peru and go to like an ayahuasca retreat. But before I got my passport, I relapsed. So it's like, it's, you know, if somebody such a big part of you that you're gonna, I don't know, self sabotage or. You get what I'm trying to say?

[Geck]

Yeah. Like you like the concept of like you're filling a hole and it's like, well, if it's not this lady, then it's going to be fucking drugs.

[Sterling]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I'll fill the hole with another hole.

[Geck]

Yeah, yeah. It's weird. Make it. I mean, are we all. I don't want to get too. And I don't think that this is a bummer, but it's like, aren't we all kind of filling a hole in some sense Is. In a lot. Is in a lot. I'd love to have. I really would love to talk to more, you know, get alternative perspectives on this from, you know, whatever philosophy douchebag people there are. But I mean, isn't a lot of life filling a hole? I mean like our like is having friends. Filling a hole is getting. Is achieving things. Filling a hole is like working out, filling a hole, having kids have it like. Like all these like net positive things. It's all filling. Yeah. A hole of some kind.

[Sterling]

Yeah. Everyone has some sort of life.

[Geck]

Yeah. And so I guess it's just about filling the hole with as much things that are considered positive instead of negative so that you look back on your life and you enjoy it. But yeah, you know, it feels a little complicated, I guess.

[Sterling]

Yeah. Life's a trip.

[Geck]

What's your name again?

[Sterling]

Sterling.

[Geck]

Sterling. Sterling. Sterling. Sterling. How did you feel about this phone call, Sterling?

[Sterling]

I was stoked that I actually got on.

[Jared]

Hmm.

[Geck]

You're good. You're. You're a good guy, Sterling. I like you. You seem like a nice fella.

[Sterling]

Thank you. Likewise. Geck.

[Jared]

Hmm.

[Geck]

I'm trying to. Is anything. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. This was an interesting thing. Do you feel like you'll. You'll be able to like have. Do you feel optimistic about your ability to kind of work on your sexual relationships and have them be more healthy to your. To your definition?

[Sterling]

Yeah, I think so. Like if I actually try to start working on it.

[Geck]

Would you ever have. Would you ever have sex with a dog?

[Sterling]

No.

[Geck]

Okay, that's good. I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think that's a good thing to do. Is there anything else you want to say to the people at the computer before we go, Sterling?

[Sterling]

It's better to be a dopeless hope addict than a dopeless than a hopeless dope addict and don't do drugs.

[Geck]

Oh, I like that. Say that way. A hopeless. It's better to be a dopeless.

[Sterling]

A dopeless hope addict, then a hopeless.

[Geck]

Dope addict, a dopeless hope addict and a hopeless dope addict. I like that. I like that. You should put on a shirt or a bracelet or whatever.

[Sterling]

Yeah. Or a bumper sticker.

[Geck]

Thanks for calling, Sterling. I appreciate you.

[Jared]

Word.

[Sterling]

Thank you, Geck.

[Geck]

Take care, man.

[Sterling]

Likewise.

[Geck]

That was Sterling. Slow sex, love, opiates, women. I still defeat. Yeah, no, that all. That all makes sense. I think it's bad to have sex with dogs. I'll say that on the record. Hey, folks. The finals of TikTok's newest music competition. Next up, live music is finally going down. 12 aspiring musicians will gather to give the biggest performance of their career and lay their souls bare on the stage. It will be the biggest night in live music. And they've got a true powerhouse of judges on the panel, including Tom Pullman, chief programming officer at iHeartRadio, Beata Murphy, program director of 102.7 Kiss FM, Justina Valentine from MTV's Wild N Out, and viral guitarist John Dreddo. The judges will crown the next up live music winner. But get this. There's a democratic process where you have the power to put in your vote and decide who takes home the People's Choice award. So don't miss a second and watch it all unfold live on TikTok on September 26th from 7 to 9pm Pacific Time, only on the official TikTok handle, ictocliveus. Again, that's ictoclive us. Together, let's witness the birth of the next music superstar.

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[Jemma Spake]

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[Geck]

Hello.

[Jessica]

Hello. Where's your shirt?

[Geck]

Where's my shirt?

[Jessica]

Yeah, where's your shirt?

[Geck]

Jessica, what's up? How you doing, man? How's life?

[Jessica]

I'm doing all right. I decided to call in today because I figured you'd be interested in my story. I'm 19 and to put it simply, I'm going blind.

[Geck]

You're going blind?

[Jessica]

Yes. So I have a rare genetic condition called Stargardt disease. It affects 1 in 10,000 people worldwide. And it basically like I'm losing my central vision. So it's supposed to deteriorate over time until all I really have is peripheral. But my peripheral vision could go too.

[Geck]

So how do you know I'm not wearing like a skin color shirt?

[Jessica]

Because I have. Well, that's a good question. But anyway, I have a lot of functional vision at the moment, so I can see a lot of things, but I have a hard time reading, recognizing faces and things like that, you know. But what?

[Geck]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Jessica]

The thing is, I got bullied in high school because people didn't believe me.

[Geck]

Whoa. What. What kinds of things would they say?

[Jessica]

Well, first of all, people would say, oh yeah, she pretends to be blind because my vision will fluctuate. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse. And I would use a white cane to get around sometimes. And people say, oh, yeah, she doesn'. Use a can all the time. She's pretending to be blind. Or like, I knew her, you know, because I got diagnosed at 13. I didn't always know I was going blind. Something was wrong with my vision, but I didn't have the tools to help me. So people are like, yeah, I knew her before, and she wasn't blind before. People would step in front of me, throw things at me. You know, the usual.

[Geck]

Wow. Crazy, crazy. So what are. So you're 19 now? So are you. Are you going to school? Are you. What are you doing now? I assume you've graduated high school, right? What are you doing now?

[Jessica]

Yeah, so I took a gap year to kind of figure out what I wanted to do, especially, like, things that I could do. I went to, like, two different, like, I don't know if you ever heard there's, like, camps and stuff for people. I've heard there's, like, a camp for kids with epilepsy and shit like that. I went to two blind camps. Cancer blind kids. And that's kind of where I found that I can be a nurse, which is something that I wanted to do. So I'm going into a nursing program in December.

[Geck]

Cool. Cool. Yeah. Is that something that you think your condition will affect your ability to do?

[Jessica]

In a way, I'm only going from my lpn, so that's a step above a CNA and a step below an rn. So there might be some things that I won't be able to do, like give an IV or take blood, etc. But not all nurses have to perform those functions. I mean, you should know how, but as long as I get through the school. I spoke to someone from the board of nursing. As long as I get graduate from the program, I can become a nurse.

[Geck]

Cool. Cool. Hmm. So what's your situation like at home? Like, are your parents helping you out and you? Like, is everyone supportive and whatnot?

[Jessica]

Yeah, my parents are very supportive. So are my brothers. You know, I can't drive, so my parents are always, you know, open to giving me rides wherever I need to go. I have a pretty good support system, I'd say. I have some blind friends, too, so that helps.

[Geck]

Really? Well, where'd you meet these other blind friends?

[Jessica]

Blind camp.

[Geck]

Blind camp. What's I got to know everything about blind camp?

[Jessica]

Yes. I'd love to Tell you. So the first one I went to, and I never knew this was a thing. So I got diagnosed when I was 13, and that was Covid. And then I went back to school and I had a vision teacher to teach me things like braille and whatnot. But she told me about these blind pants. I'm like, what on earth are you talking about? And I found out that through government funded organizations like the center for the Blind and Visually Impaired, at least that's what's in my state. I live in Pennsylvania. Every summer, there's a camp at the CBVI center where kids go for free. And we spend about, like, three weeks in dorms and we learn things like how to navigate the world, you know, with vision loss. So we learn kitchen skills, technology skills, communication skills, career skills, do some braille orientation, mobility, and also we do fun things on the weekends.

[Geck]

What kinds of fun things do you guys do on the weekends?

[Jessica]

Oh, my God. So I forget what the place is called. It's like you go and it's like. It's called Medieval Times, I think.

[Geck]

Oh, you guys went to Medieval Times?

[Jessica]

Yes. Some people were pissed off. The completely blind kids were kind of pissed off because they couldn't see anything, but the food was good.

[Geck]

Well, I mean. I mean, you know, what do you. What are you gonna do? I guess you could go to, like, a fucking orchestra or a concert or something. Something more auditory than Medieval Times. Yeah. The blind. No. Okay. Actually, the blind kids have a point. They've got a point. What the fuck is the point? It's like saying, hey, we're gonna go. I'll go see a movie or something.

[Jessica]

Oh, we did.

[Geck]

Why?

[Jessica]

Well, so for blind people, you can request special headphones that tell you what's going on in the movie. Every movie has it. It's called auditory description that you can turn on. So it tells you what's happening in the movie? Basically.

[Geck]

Wow. No, Okay, I knew about that. But is that, like a thing that you just can go to any movie theater and request?

[Jessica]

Oh, yeah. My brother works at a movie theater too. So, I mean, most of the time the headphones don't work, so I need someone next to me to tell me what's going on. But they do have that.

[Geck]

What movie did you see?

[Jessica]

It was the live action of the Little Mermaid. That's the one that I saw. We had two choices. I don't remember what the other choice was. I don't. I don't remember what was out at the time, but that's what I decided to see. It was all right. It was good.

[Geck]

So did any drama ever go down in blind camp?

[Jessica]

This one, necessarily, no. But the one I went to at Penn State, we definitely had drama. So that was the following year. It was 10 days long. You know, it's learning how to navigate college life. And my roommate was the most insufferable person. Insufferable person on this planet, I believe.

[Geck]

Really?

[Jessica]

Okay. So my roommate. Oh, my God. Her name is Ada, but she always told us to call her this name. And I don't remember what it was either. But at first, you know, we were all understanding that she's on the spectrum. I'm on the spectrum, too. So I understand being socially awkward, not understanding social cues and whatnot, maybe being a little annoying, but this girl pissed me off so bad. Okay, let me tell you one of the things that she did. I remember we were talking. So she has a lot. Her vision's a lot worse than mine. And I remember she was telling me, well. Well, you're lucky. You're lucky you get to see better than me. You know that? Why would you say that to me? Why would you say that to me? I remember I was doing my makeup in the dorm, and everyone was waiting on me. So my friend asked, hey, like, Ada, where's Jessica? She's like. She's putting on her face paint or whatever. I don't like makeup or something. I don't know. That wasn't all of it, though. I'm trying to remember, because the thing is, I remember that feeling of how irritating she was, but it's kind of hard to recall, like, everything that she did.

[Geck]

Is there a. Is there a hierarchy of. In terms of, like. Like, are, like, the most popular kids at blind camp? Are they the more blind kids or the less blind kids? Like, who?

[Jessica]

No, the funny ones.

[Geck]

The funny ones. Is there. There's no, like, cast system based on who is more or less blind?

[Jessica]

I mean, like, some of us are. Okay. Not a social hierarchy. I got a little confused there. So some kids are more. Some kids are completely blind. Some kids can see shadows. It really depends. Some kids have spots in their vision. Some kids have tunnel vision. Your vision, I think, needs to be a certain amount of terrible to get in. And I get it. I got in both of them. Yeah.

[Geck]

Do you still hang out with anyone from blind camp? They still talk to any of them?

[Jessica]

Oh, yeah. My friend Wendy. She's sleeping over tomorrow night. I believe she has astigmatism, which is when you're like, eyeballs are not shaped the right Way. And nystagmus, which is when your eyeballs constantly shape, take back and forth. So that's. That's her blind story. But I only ever met one person with my disease because it's that rare, because one in 10,000. You hear that? But I looked it up because I'm terrible with statistics and numbers. That's.01% of the population worldwide. I. You know, it's. It's a pretty lonely feeling, not gonna lie. But, you know, my friend Wendy's coming over tomorrow, so that's cool.

[Geck]

Hmm. I'm trying to think if I have any other. Any other questions about blind camp. Is it true that your other senses start to become stronger?

[Jessica]

Not unintentionally. You have to learn those things yourself. It's not like you go blind and suddenly you have a heightened sense of touch, smell, hearing. You have to learn to utilize those things in such a way on your own.

[Geck]

And have you done that with any of your other senses?

[Jessica]

Yeah, with touch. Learning Braille is really hard because you, like, look at it. It is so small, you can barely know what you're feeling. When I first started learning Braille, I was like, what is this? What is this? Because I just couldn't tell what letter was what. It's actually really difficult, but eventually you get used to it. As far as NA hearing goes, I can never tell what anyone's saying, but that's just because I suck at the auditory processing aspect of it.

[Geck]

What do you want the people listening to this podcast to know about being blind that maybe they haven't thought about before?

[Jessica]

I'm going to. This is a part where I'm probably going to talk a lot. This is why I wanted to get on here.

[Geck]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Jessica]

So I did say that I got bullied in high school because people did not believe me. You don't understand. My high school had 30. Let me go back to this number. Like, it's a really big high school. Hold on.

[Geck]

I'm sorry. Your high school had 30? What?

[Jessica]

Hold on. I need to look at the exact number because I'm on the spot right now, you know?

[Geck]

Yeah, 30,000.

[Jessica]

No, not 30. Okay. 3,210 students.

[Geck]

That's pretty crazy for a high school. Yeah, it's a lot.

[Jessica]

And to feel like I had that entire school. School going up against me was a lot. I didn't know who I could trust. There was this one girl that I thought I trusted. You know, we grew up knowing each other. She had heard everything I had to say in class. I had this One class. It was a small class. It was like emotional support, math or something. I don't know. Anyways, she heard all the things that I had to deal with, and still she went behind my back and told people. Yeah, she. She actually does pretend to be blind. So I found her in the hallway one day, and I was pissed off. I swung at her, and, well, I missed. So, you know what. What does that tell you? Ignorance when it comes to disabilities like this can do a lot of damage. I. In my senior year, I had really thought about taking my life because I couldn't deal with it anymore. The constant harassment, people going behind my back who I thought I could trust, and spreading this rumor. It was awful. It really was. I felt like. I felt like an amusement, a circus clan. People would laugh at me in the hallways, take pictures of me, take videos of me, like I was some zoo animal. It was. It was ridiculous.

[Geck]

And how did you feel once you graduated?

[Jessica]

A lot better. I didn't have to deal with that anymore. I mean, there's still people saying those things about me, but what am I gonna do? You know, I still live in my Hometown. I'm only 19. I can't get away from these people. But I just. I hope that one day these people that harass me will realize what they had done and that blindness is a spectrum. There are all different kinds of blindness. It's not you're blind or you're not, or you wear glasses or you don't. Right. I'm losing my central vision, and that's something I have to live with. On top of the bullying that I dealt with.

[Geck]

Are you optimistic for the future in general?

[Jessica]

I definitely am. I think my past might haunt me forever. But that's okay, because going into this nursing program, I feel right about it. I feel like this might be the best thing for me.

[Geck]

In what way do you feel like the past will haunt you forever?

[Jessica]

I graduated two years ago, and I still think about it all the time. The bullying that I dealt with, it was really bad. I mean, like, I just. Every time I passed by, I could hear people talking about. Not every time, but, you know, the paranoia that set in with these kinds of things going around and feeling like no one would believe you. On top of being recently told that I was going blind, people didn't believe me, and they were not nice about it. Trust me. Just things like that, those emotions, they stick with you for a long time.

[Geck]

Do you feel like you have a pretty good community with? I mean, you know, both. Both your friends from blind Camp and other friends?

[Jessica]

Yeah, I do. I don't have a lot of friends outside of blind camp. That is a whole nother story. I lost to my friends in high school, but yeah, I mean, my blind friends are, you know, people that I can fall back on, lean on, when I feel like no one else understands me. We're all pretty weird people.

[Geck]

Yeah. In what way?

[Jessica]

Okay, so between my boyfriend and I. My boyfriend's watching this live stream right now. Oh my God. Say hi. Eden, say hi to him, please.

[Geck]

Is he here?

[Jessica]

Yes.

[Geck]

Oh, does he wanna. He can say hi if he wants.

[Jessica]

No, I'll say. You say hi to him. He's watching the live stream.

[Geck]

Oh, wait, you're saying me say hi to him?

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Geck]

I don't even. I. I don't even. Is he like, here here? I mean, like, is he with. Next to you?

[Jessica]

No.

[Geck]

Oh, well, if. If he's next, I'll say. I don't know if he's next to you.

[Jessica]

It's okay. I. It's a privilege to be acknowledged by the gecko. Anyhow, the 911 jokes went crazy at the second line camp I went to. I. I don't know what that was about, to be honest.

[Geck]

Why?

[Jessica]

I feel like that's.

[Geck]

Go ahead.

[Jessica]

So when we first all met each other our first day at the Penn State camp, we have this objective. We all got. Got put into groups and we were given like, these. I don't remember what they're called. They're like rods and stuff. You put them in the holes, kids play with them. It's. It's really hard to explain, but if you saw it, you know what I'm talking about. But anyways, it's a group activity. Who can build the tallest tower? Whatever. My group kind of got sidetracked and started building the twin towers, the plane and the Pentagon. So.

[Geck]

Interesting. Interesting. Did anyone get. Did anyone get mad at you guys?

[Jessica]

No. I mean, no.

[Geck]

You weren't even alive when 911 happened.

[Jessica]

No, I wasn't.

[Geck]

You weren't even alive?

[Sterling]

Nope.

[Geck]

How'd you meet your boy?

[Jessica]

Not my idea.

[Geck]

I don't think it. I don't think it was. I. I don't think. Are you saying that 911 wasn't your idea?

[Jessica]

Well, that wasn't my idea either, but it was.

[Geck]

How did you meet your boyfriend?

[Jessica]

So he used to work at a nifty 50s. You know what that is, right? It's a little restaurant supposed to be like the 50s or whatever.

[Geck]

No, I know. I know a place called Cheeburger. Cheeburger but I don't know, nifty 50.

[Jessica]

So it's basically like. It's like. Imagine kind of like it's a sit in. It's like a burger joint, fast food place kind of thing, restaurant, but it's supposed to be themed like the 50s. Anyways, I went there with my friend Natalie. She's not my friend anymore, that. But I'll get into that in a moment. But anyways, I saw him. He was my waiter, and I thought he was cute. Like, you know, he got. He was close enough so I could actually see his face, and I thought he was cute. So I left my number and he texted me and we started going on dates from there. And it's like a year and a half later, so.

[Geck]

And why don't you. Why don't you like this lady that you just said you don't like?

[Jessica]

Oh, my. Sorry. So, Natalie, I remember at my second blind camp, I was flaming this bitch, but I decided to talk to her again after her mom died. But she. When I say secret animosity, like, some friends are not your friends. This girl was jealous of me before I met Aiden. I'd be talking to other guys and whatnot, and she would see if she could talk to them too, or she'd be like, oh, my God, can we share him?

[Geck]

Okay. Okay.

[Jessica]

And what will appropriate behavior? Right?

[Geck]

And. And this is a person who used to be your friends.

[Jessica]

Oh, absolutely. I just like.

[Geck]

And this is. When. When did you stop being friends with this girl? Like, what, when you were 17 or something?

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Geck]

Okay, well, listen, here's. Let me tell you something. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna act like a fucking. I'm gonna go. You know what? You know what, everyone? I'm going unk mode from now on. No more being. No more of this passive bullshit. I'm going straight up, unk mode. I refuse to not. Okay, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go unk mode. Listen, here's the thing. You're gonna. One day you're gonna. You're gonna be an old lady. And you're gonna realize that when you were 17, not only were you incredibly immature and stupid, but everyone around you was incredibly immature and stupid. Not your fault that you're incredibly immature and stupid, but the fault of the fact that you're 17 and you're in high school. And so I'm gonna tell you something. You can either recognize that and let go of your anger. Now, you could do it when you're in your 50s. Or you could hold onto it forever and die.

[Jessica]

Oh, she stole my life.

[Geck]

She is?

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Geck]

Do you still hang out with her?

[Jessica]

No, she. She's two hours away now, but she keeps harassing me in any possible way she can find.

[Geck]

What do you. I don't. What are you. Is she in your life or is she. What do you mean? What do you mean? Like, is she your friend?

[Jessica]

I don't want her to be my friend. She thinks we're friends and that's like up of me to do. I'm aware.

[Geck]

Okay. All right.

[Sterling]

Well, but.

[Jessica]

So I finally stopped talking to her when she told me that she would never date a blind person. That's too far for her. She draws the line because she wants them to be able to see her and what she looks like. And that said.

[Geck]

Hold on.

[Jessica]

She told me.

[Sterling]

Hold on.

[Jessica]

Let's get first.

[Geck]

All right, all right. Okay. I'll let you. I'll let you finish.

[Jessica]

She said, I already have a hard time being friends with you because you're losing your vision because I want you to see me. I have a hard time staying friends with you because of that.

[Geck]

The second. That's a stupid thing to say, but saying that they want. That she wants to not date another blind guy. Totally fair. I'm going to say that's totally fair.

[Jessica]

She said that to the wrong person. You know, I. It's okay to think that some. I just felt as though that was an inside thought.

[Geck]

I. I feel like if you're both. Well, I'd suppose because I think if I were blind, I'd want to date a non blind person. Because two, if we're both blind, then, you know, you're the blind leading the blind. You know that expression?

[Jessica]

Absolutely.

[Geck]

At least one part. I think it's help. It's helpful for at least one person to not be blind. I think it's a. It's a strong logistical play that she's talking about right now. I don't think she should be faulted for it, but. No, I agree. It was a dick move to say that. That you. That she doesn't want to be friends with you because you're blind. That was a dick move. But I don't know. I don't know anything about this lady that you are friends with that you. Hey, she could be. She's probably fine. She's probably fine. You're. I'm sorry. She's probably fine.

[Jessica]

Well, you're right. It's not. It's not that.

[Geck]

Probably fucking fine. But. But, but anyway, fuck Give me your name one more time.

[Jessica]

Jessica.

[Geck]

Jessica. And. And you know what? You're fine too. You're gonna go into medication, you go into nursing. It's gonna be good. You know, this. It'll be. It'll be good. It'll be good. Well, what was your experience of this phone call? How did this phone call feel to you? Was this helpful in any way? Was this anything? Was this anything? I'm sorry, I'm. Today, I'm. Today is a fucking weird ass day and I'm. And I'm just. I don't know if I'm doing this well today, but I. But I. But I. I'm doing it. Go ahead.

[Jessica]

Put you kind of put some things into perspective for me. As far as, you know, my relationship with Natalie. We're all immature in the end. It doesn't completely matter. I mean, as long as we are treating each other with basic respect, that. That is what matters at the end of the day, you know, it's not something to whip my head off over, you know.

[Geck]

Okay, good, Good. Well, Jessica, is there anything else you want to say to the people at the computer before we go?

[Jessica]

Yeah, just, you know, everyone be nice. Just be nice to disabled people. I feel like people are either overly nice or. Or they are overly ignorant. You know, two things can be true at the same time also. But I just don't want someone else to go through what I went through as far as the bullying goes. You know, keep an open mind.

[Geck]

Thank you for sharing your story with us, Jessica. I appreciate it.

[Jessica]

All right, thank you.

[Sterling]

Bye bye, bye.

[Geck]

Hey, folks. The finals of TikTok's newest music competition. Next up, live music is finally going down. 12 aspiring musicians will gather to give the biggest performance of their career and lay their souls bare on the stage. It will be the biggest night in live music. And they've got a true powerhouse of judges on the panel, including Tom Pullman, chief programming officer at iHeartRadio, Beata Murphy, program director of 102.7 Kiss FM, Justina Valentine from MTV's Wild N Out, and viral guitarist John Dreddo. The judges will crown the next up live music winner. But get this, There's a democratic process where you have the power to put in your vote and decide who takes home and the People's choice award. So don't miss a second and watch it all unfold live on TikTok on September 26th from 7 to 9pm Pacific Time, only on the official TikTok handle, ictkliveus. Again, that's ictoclive us together. Let's witness the birth of the next music superstar.

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[Jemma Spake]

This is Jemma Spaeg from the psychology of your 20s so you can't get the trip out of the group chat. We have all been there, but did you know there may be an easy solution? EF Ultimate Break is a group travel company for 18 to 35 year olds with over 140 itineraries all over the world. Just sign up and recruit six or more friends for a trip. You will save hundreds or even thousands of dollars. You could even travel for free. Learn [e-mail] that's ef ultimatebreak.com and turn the group chat into a group trip.

[Jared]

From Jared.

[Geck]

Hello.

[Jared]

Yo hello. What's up?

[Geck]

How's it going man?

[Jared]

Not too bad. Honestly. Pretty good. Low key pretty good.

[Geck]

Why is it going low key pretty good?

[Jared]

I don't know.

[Geck]

A lot.

[Jared]

Like I would say like the past three years have been pretty great. I've had some pretty good opportunities to travel the world and like I was actually recently able to accomplish a really big dream. Something that like I've been working towards, too, for the past, like, I don't know, I would say, like, three and a half, four years.

[Geck]

Oh, lay it on us, man.

[Jared]

Okay. Yeah. I mean, like, the big dream that, like, actually happened was I visited the visit of New York City, like, for the first time, like, in 2019. And ever since then, I was like, fuck, I need to be here. Like, this is like, the place I want to live. And I recently got a job offer to start there in, like, June, and I was living there over the summer as well, and it was such a good experience.

[Geck]

Cool, cool, cool. What, what, what job?

[Jared]

Basically just another corporate slave at a bank.

[Geck]

You're gonna get to live in New York, though.

[Jared]

Yeah. That's a big thing. It's. It was, like, so surreal over the summer because it's like, wow, like, I finally accomplished this dream. And like, I. Yeah, it just was not something that I actually expected to actually happen because.

[Sterling]

I don't know.

[Jared]

But, like, right now I'm just kind of like, all right, what else is next? That's kind of what I've been struggling with.

[Geck]

Interesting. Okay, so, well, let's talk, because where in New York are you?

[Jared]

So right now. Actually, right now I'm not living in New York. I'll be in New York. I'll be back in New York, like, in the summer. Because right now I'm in a grad program. So I'll be back when I. Once I finish your program.

[Geck]

Oh, wait, you'll be back. Oh, wait, you're. Hold on. You're going to New York in the summer of next year?

[Jared]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, starting full time jobs. Yeah. And then this past summer, I was in the city. I'm just doing internship over the summer.

[Geck]

Oh, okay. All right. So you are going to. Okay, so you don't live in New York, but you are guaranteed a job that will allow you to live in New York in about a year.

[Jared]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Geck]

Okay, Very cool. Where do you want to live there?

[Jared]

It depends on the market. But, like, ideally, I would love to live in the East Village again because that was such a good experience for a few reasons. I mean, the restaurants are really great. The bar scenes there is great. The age there is a little too young for me maybe, but, like, I would still love to live there.

[Geck]

How old are you?

[Jared]

I am in my late 20s.

[Geck]

Okay.

[Jared]

I remember when I first visited East Village was like, relatively. I mean, I could be wrong. This is just from my own perspective. But. But, like, when I first was there, I felt like the East Village was more for like mid to late 20s, while, like, I don't know, neighborhoods maybe like Murray Hill and like, Hips Bay was more for, like, real post undergrad type vibes there. But now it's like, getting younger and younger, I feel like.

[Geck]

Yeah, definitely.

[Jared]

Have you seen. Yeah. Have you seen that in your experience so far?

[Geck]

Totally. I mean, there's certain parts, like, Lower east side is, like, huge, you know, like a lot. I mean, like, you know, NYU kids are all over the Lower east side. But, you know, I don't know. That's the funny thing, right. Is because those kids, like, I guess I don't know how many of them, when they get out of, like, college age, are gonna stay in New York City. So it seems like that it's just gonna keep being like a rotating a batch of 18 to 22 year olds just kind of like coming in and out.

[Jared]

Yeah. Yeah, that's. I feel like that's always been like, the tradition of, like, those specific neighbors in the city just because, like, of how crazy it is. Like, I. I know there's like a big, like, controversial thing too, of, like, how people are fluctuating. Like you said, there's a lot of turnover in the city because of, like, how hectic it is. And like, there's like, very few, like, real New Yorkers. But as a whole, definitely, I feel like.

[Geck]

And you said that the past three years have been really, really good. Why have the past three years been really, really good?

[Jared]

I've had some. I mean, I consider myself really lucky and really blessed to have opportunities to travel the world. And like, I took my first Europe trip back, like, right when I graduated undergrad. And like, I've been addicted to going, like, going abroad and like, seeing the world since then. And like, every year I've had the opportunity to go abroad, and it's been such a great experience. And like, a few of the past two years, I've been able to, like, go to multiple trips to different countries. So that's been like, even. Even great. And like, you know, that on top of, like, you know, actually accomplishing a dream, it's been like, such a great time. And like, I don't know, the. I just. Yeah. Super appreciative of, like, what I've been able to see, the places I've been able to go. And then, like, I have plans to keep on traveling as well.

[Geck]

Nice, nice, nice. Where. Where else do you want to go?

[Jared]

Actually, my grad trip, I've been trying to plan it out. I want to go to Vietnam and Southeast Asia. I really want to do the. I could be pronouncing it incorrectly, but I really want to do the ha. Giant loop. I know it's, like, really popular, but, like, I've seen videos on, like, Tick Tock and Instagram. I'm just like, I need to experience that. Like, that looks beautiful. That's something. I just really want to go.

[Geck]

Cool. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I think, you know, of all the things that I. The older I get and the more I've kind of achieved in my life, the more apathetic I actually become towards a lot of things. The amount of things that I truly care about has go. Has gone down over the years, which. Which has pros and cons. I think that a man is rich in proportion to the amount of things he's. He can afford to let alone, you know that phrase.

[Jared]

Yeah, I. I kind of agree with that. I mean, like, yeah, the less you're able to care about, the more rich you are, just because, like, you can afford to not care about certain things. Is that kind of, like, what you're getting at?

[Geck]

Well, a little bit, I was gonna say. But the thing that I'm like, I know for a fact I'm gonna want to keep doing this is. Is traveling for sure. I mean, I don't think I'll. That's something I don't think I'll ever stop doing, at least until, you know, I have a list of places that I still really want to go. There's probably a lot of places around the world that I'll die not having gone to. Like, I don't know. I mean, let me look at a map here. I'm gonna start lift. I'm just gonna start listing off countries that I never need to go to.

[Jared]

I hope you don't set anybody off by doing that.

[Geck]

Well, it's not about. I mean, like, where. Like, I don't know. Am I ever gonna go to Belarus? Maybe I'll go to Belarus. I don't know. I'm trying to find a country. I'm really trying to find a place where I'm like, I don't think I'm ever gonna go there. I want to go to Alaska.

[Jared]

What about, like, Antarctic?

[Geck]

I would love to. I'd love to go to the Antarctic. I'll probably never go to Turkmenistan. I'll probably never go to. Actually, you know what? I'm looking at a map, and I'm like, actually, I actually want to go to la. I want to go to Peru. All right. There's actually not as many places as I thought that I would. That I'll die, never going to. Because I want to keep going places. I want to see what's. I know Russia is a whole thing right now, but maybe when they're not, it'd be. It'd be interesting to see what's going on there. It's fucking huge. Look at it.

[Jared]

Yes.

[Geck]

Why is it.

[Jared]

I literally had that conversation the other day about Russia. I was like, you know, I would consider going there maybe, like, a few years after conflict ends, but, you know, who knows what that'll be?

[Geck]

Yeah, I'd like to see Moscow. It's just. It just seems like such a. Interesting place where it's fucking cold and crazy and. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know anything about it. I don't know any fucking thing about anything. But, yeah, I don't know. That's the one thing. Like, there's a lot of things where I'm. There's a lot of things where I'm like, I don't need to do that, you know?

[Jared]

Yeah, I know.

[Geck]

And I'm not just, like, in, like, whatever, skydiving or like, when someone's like, you got to go to this restaurant. I'm like, I'll. I don't need to do that ever. Or, like, a party. That is. I don't. There's a lot of things nowadays where I'm like, I just don't fucking need to do that. But the one thing I'll just continue to do is. Yeah. Traveling and seeing stuff. So I'm with you on that. I think that shit's cool. So did I. Did I ask you already what places are all on your bucket list?

[Jared]

No, but, like, right now would be, like, mostly Southeast Asia. I'm like, I haven't. I've been to. Almost. I've been to, like. So I've been to Europe, I've been to Asia, and I've been to South America and obviously live in North America. But, like, I just haven't been to Africa yet, which sucks, because, like, I don't know when I'll be able to do that. Like, after I do this, like, Southeast Asia trip. It's just, like, I don't know where. What attractions are cool and, like, you know, what would be, like, not, like, perfect, but, like, ideal for, like, what I would want to see. I was thinking about, like, maybe Mount Kilimanjaro, but I don't know when I want to do that. Like, that's, like, different out of the priority list. But, like, right now, like, for my graduation trip after this grad program, I want to do, like, Vietnam, Thailand, and maybe, like, Cambodia. Just because, like, that's a really cool part of the world. I really want to see Cambodia.

[Geck]

What's going on in Cambodia?

[Jared]

Like, Angkor Wat, I think. Yeah, it's, like, super remote, like, really ancient, like, a lot of history. And it's, like, definitely one of the bucket list items I want to see.

[Geck]

So what is it that attracted you so much to New York that you're so stoked about living here?

[Jared]

That's a great question. Like, pretty much everybody has asked me that because, like, you can get from people from different parts of the spectrum, like, loving the city life and, like, just have no idea or, like, have zero desire to live in any kind of city. It's like, so. I don't know, like, I went there, like, right after, like, I graduate, like, undergrad, and I think it just, like, it's some reminding me so much of a college campus where it's like, it's super lively, there's public transportation, and there's always something going on. I think that's, like, the main draw of it for me. I've been around, like, obviously we've talked about, like, been around the world and stuff, but, like. And there's a lot of cities around Europe and Asia like that. But, like, I don't know. There's just, like, no city that I've been to that has made me feel that I have about New York. It's really weird, but I also have, like, this crazy. Not like crazy experience, but interesting experience. It was somewhere where I was like. I don't know. We're just like, I definitely need to come back.

[Geck]

Then what. What was the experience?

[Jared]

This is actually one. One of the main things I wanted to talk about. Calling in.

[Geck]

Sure.

[Jared]

So this is, like. I don't know. It's a crazy. It's kind of a crazy story, I guess. I guess depending on who you ask. But there I'm. I, like, kind of, like, connected with this girl. This girl that, like. Like, our parents know each other and, like, we've known about each other since we were kids. My parents, like, worked for her, her parents at a restaurant. And like, ever since then, we know each other. We know anybody, each other. We went to the same middle school, high school and college, and we never talked until, like, this past summer where, like, you know, she hit me up. She saw that, like, I was living in the city and like, we actually connected and actually, like, you know, I was like, wow, this girl is actually really cool. You know, we have from. She's also from the same hometown as me, not in the U.S. so there's also that crazy thing, like we speak the same language, our native languages and like, I don't know, it just looked really crazy how that kind of works out. And like a recent, like we went on like if we hung out a few times and I was like, well, I haven't felt this way about a person in a very, very long time. And I'm just like, well, unfortunately I have to leave and go back to school and I'll be back in a year. Like, see ya. Like, I'm just, I don't know, for me it's like, it sucks that how that happened, but like that was such a crazy like thing for life to happen that way as well.

[Geck]

For life to happen in what way?

[Jared]

Like, it's, I don't know, like more so just like, you know, we've known about each other for so long and then like we never talked until recently when we're like adults. I feel like, I don't know, it's like a weird thing that like I, I might be just playing it up too much in my head, but I don't know, I feel like it's like I felt like it was such like a romantic thing, like low key, like a movie scripts. Don't want to sound corny about it or anything.

[Geck]

Where do you live currently?

[Jared]

Right now I live in North Carolina.

[Geck]

Okay, well, what city in North Carolina?

[Jared]

I live in the like Raleigh, Durham area.

[Geck]

Okay. Okay. So how are you biding your time between now and when you go back to New York?

[Jared]

Honestly, I've, I've just been kind of chilling, just hanging out with my friends really. Like, I've like, since I have like a job offer after the grad program, I like don't want to have to do too much anymore. Since last year is mostly dedicated to trying to find a job. So right now I've just been kind of like chilling and like, I really put a big emphasis on like enjoying the now because like, like I said, like the past couple years of my life been dedicated to trying to get to New York and try and just like looking forward to that. But now that that's done and I've like achieved that, I just need to like, I like kind of remember reminding myself since like I'm in grad school right now that like this is a very unique position that like I'm probably never going to go back to school after this. So I need to enjoy being in college. I need to be enjoying. To like, in a college town, being surrounded by, like, my friends that are, like, within, like, such a close distance. Because I know after this, it's not gonna be like this ever again.

[Geck]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the way. I mean, that's the weird thing about life is that it's very transient and you try to make sure that you can enjoy things while you can. But also, how do I say this? Like, whether you enjoy it or you don't enjoy it, it passes anyway. So I guess might as well enjoy it. You can never. You can never hold on to anything. It always escapes your grip.

[Jared]

Yeah, and it's. I started to realize that pretty off, like, relatively often when I was, like, being abroad. And I realized, like, wow, this is a great moment. But it's, you know, obviously it's not gonna last forever. I need to, like, just enjoy it and not worry about it at all.

[Geck]

What did you say your name was, sir?

[Jared]

I don't remember what I put down when I first called him, but we'll just go with Jared.

[Geck]

Jared. Jared, was there anything else that you wanted to talk about today before we go?

[Jared]

No, man. I honestly really appreciate your time. I mean, I've been listening to you since, like, I don't know, very like, 2021. So it's been pretty surreal that I actually finally got on and, like, I know I really enjoyed talking to you. It was great and, like, such a cool experience.

[Geck]

Thanks, brother. Hopefully, you know, I don't know what the future is like for me and my live stuff, but, you know, hopefully I'll get something going next year in New York and you can come through. That'd be fun.

[Jared]

Hell yeah. I would love that. I will be there if you do something in New York.

[Geck]

Beautiful, beautiful. Take care, Jared. Good luck, ma'.

[Jessica]

Am.

[Jared]

Thank you, Geck. I'll see you.

[Geck]

See you, man.

[Jessica]

Every night.

[Geck]

Therapy.

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[Jemma Spake]

Witness the new season of Reasonable Doubt, Streaming on Hulu September 18th.

[Jessica]

Louisiana.

[Jemma Spake]

S most successful attorney, Jack Stewart, defends a young actor accused of murder. Follow Emma Yahtzee, Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sikora and guest stars Cash Dahl and Lori Harvey as they face off in the year's most sensational trial in the pursuit of justice. Every move counts. Reasonable Doubt Season 33 is streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney September 18th. Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

[Geck]

It's football season and now you can get anything you need for game day delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. You can't get a running back, but baby back ribs? Yes, Uber Eats official on demand food delivery partner of the NFL.

[Jemma Spake]

This is an iHeart podcast.