“SHOULD I KEEP DOING FAVORS FOR HIM?”

Summary

Therapy Gecko - Episode “SHOULD I KEEP DOING FAVORS FOR HIM?”

Release Date: January 19, 2025
Host: Lyle / iHeartPodcasts

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Overview

In this compelling episode of Therapy Gecko, host Lyle navigates through heartfelt and intense conversations with three callers, each facing their own unique challenges. From grappling with the emotional toll of supporting an ex-partner to questioning a career path in therapy, and pursuing passion amidst self-doubt, this episode delves deep into personal struggles and resilience.

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1. Caller 1: Rafi – Struggling with Assisting the Father of Her Unborn Child

Timestamp: [02:02] – [15:02]

Situation:
Rafi (also referred to as Alexis) reaches out not for traditional therapy but for a genuine conversation. She is seven months pregnant with the child of a man she met in rehab. Although their romantic relationship has ended, she continues to support him by buying groceries and providing emotional assistance. This ongoing support is taking an emotional toll on her, especially given his continued struggles with sobriety and honesty.

Key Discussion Points:

• Emotional Burden: Rafi feels overwhelmed balancing impending motherhood with her efforts to help her ex-partner, who resides far from his family and is battling substance abuse ([03:02]).

• Motivations for Helping: Despite their breakup, she persists in assisting him to ensure her child has a present father figure, even though this may be emotionally draining ([05:52], [06:02]).

• Self-Reflection and Dilemma: Rafi questions whether her sacrifices are harming her own well-being and if she is enabling his detrimental behavior ([11:20]).

• Lyle's Advice: Lyle encourages Rafi to evaluate the true impact of her support, emphasizing the importance of prioritizing her own and her baby's well-being over her ex's struggles ([15:02], [13:44]).

Notable Quotes:

• Rafi at [03:02]:
  "So, like, for me personally, I'm going through, like, a bit of, like, a big life change at the moment."

• Rafi at [06:34]:
  "I'm just trying to help him out because it's going to be like, my daughter's father at some point."

• Lyle at [15:02]:
  "Do you feel like you're putting effort into this guy, like, at your own detriment?"

• Lyle at [13:44]:
  "I'm gonna uphold my end of this fucking deal, and I'm gonna do the best I can within my finite, fine, flawed human ability."

Conclusion:
Rafi is torn between her maternal responsibilities and her lingering emotional ties to her ex. Lyle's guidance helps her recognize the necessity of setting boundaries to safeguard her own well-being and that of her child, encouraging her to prioritize her future over past attachments.

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2. Caller 2: Seth – Contemplating a Career in Therapy

Timestamp: [18:02] – [74:55]

Situation:
Seth, a graduate student aspiring to become a therapist, voices his doubts and fears about his ability to effectively help others. He worries about not having the right answers and fears inadvertently causing harm due to his own uncertainties.

Key Discussion Points:

• Self-Doubt and Anxiety: Seth is uncertain if he possesses the emotional resilience and skills necessary for a therapeutic career, fearing he might not be able to genuinely assist his clients ([25:54]).

• Lyle's Personal Struggles with Therapy: Lyle shares his experiences of feeling burnt out by the repetitive nature of offering advice without clear solutions, leading to frustration and questioning the efficacy of traditional therapy ([17:54], [29:00]).

• Balancing Empathy and Action: The conversation explores the delicate balance between providing empathetic listening and encouraging proactive steps for personal growth, with Lyle emphasizing the importance of guiding clients toward actionable changes rather than just offering sympathy ([32:49]).

• Therapeutic Limitations: They discuss the inherent limitations in therapy, acknowledging that while awareness is crucial, it must be coupled with tangible actions to effect meaningful change ([25:54], [26:09]).

Notable Quotes:

• Seth at [25:54]:
  "Awareness is, like, the first step, but it's not, it doesn't fucking do."

• Lyle at [26:09]:
  "If you felt like this guy's presence in your life was important to you, then it would be worthwhile to sacrifice, you know, some of yourself for it."

• Lyle at [29:41]:
  "You already have the answers. Right."

• Lyle at [32:49]:
  "Nothing beats a gecko. Let's be real."

Conclusion:
Seth's introspection and Lyle's candid reflections highlight the complexities of a therapeutic career. The episode underscores the importance of self-awareness and proactive efforts in therapy, advising aspiring therapists like Seth to recognize their limitations and focus on fostering actionable growth in clients.

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3. Caller 3: Shelly – Pursuing Audio Engineering and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

Timestamp: [39:07] – [52:34]

Situation:
Shelly shares her journey of transitioning from community college and psychology to pursuing her true passion in audio engineering and music. She expresses her aspirations to become a self-producing artist but grapples with fears of originality and imposter syndrome.

Key Discussion Points:

• Career Transition and Passion: Shelly discusses her shift from studying psychology to following her passion for audio engineering and music, aiming to balance creative fulfillment with financial stability ([39:07], [40:34]).

• Challenges in Creativity: She faces difficulties in creating original compositions, feeling constrained by her habit of covering others' music, and worries about her capability to innovate ([41:02]).

• Imposter Syndrome: Shelly battles self-doubt and fears that she may not live up to her own or others' expectations, particularly concerning her musical talents ([43:39]).

• Lyle's Encouragement: Lyle supports Shelly's aspirations, emphasizing the value of having clear goals and the importance of enjoying the creative process over chasing material success ([41:44], [50:36]).

• Resilience Amidst Setbacks: Shelly recounts canceling a gig due to injury but remains optimistic about her future in music, demonstrating her determination to overcome obstacles ([51:22]).

Notable Quotes:

• Shelly at [40:34]:
  "The dream for me, honestly, lies in singing. I feel like being more like an artist and not necessarily being famous, but being able to just do that as much as I can and getting paid at the same time would be great."

• Lyle at [41:44]:
  "It's nice to have something that you want and care about doing. It's valuable. It's a diamond to have a dream."

• Shelly at [43:39]:
  "I'm gonna have to learn along the way, you know?"

• Shelly at [51:22]:
  "But right now I can't sing, and I'm a phenomenal singer. So it's just, no, singing just kind of makes me, like, feel fresh."

Conclusion:
Shelly's narrative is one of courage and persistence. Despite facing creative blocks and self-doubt, her unwavering commitment to her passion for music serves as an inspiring testament to following one's true calling. Lyle's encouragement reinforces the importance of setting meaningful goals and embracing the joys of the creative journey.

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4. Host Reflections: Lyle on Therapy and Personal Struggles

Throughout the episode, Lyle offers profound insights into his own relationship with therapy and the act of giving advice. He candidly shares his feelings of burnout and contemplates the effectiveness of traditional therapeutic approaches.

Key Reflections:

• Burnout from Advising: Lyle admits to feeling exhausted by the repetitive nature of offering advice without clear solutions, leading to a sense of frustration and questioning the value of such interactions ([17:54], [29:00]).

• Journaling vs. Therapy: He contrasts his preference for journaling as a therapeutic tool over formal therapy, highlighting how writing helps him process emotions more effectively ([29:00], [30:14]).

• Action-Oriented Therapy: Lyle emphasizes the necessity of taking concrete actions to resolve personal issues rather than solely discussing them, advocating for a balance between introspection and proactive efforts ([26:09], [32:49]).

• Perspective on Success and Fulfillment: He reflects on the relationship between work, material success, and personal happiness, suggesting that fulfillment comes from the passion behind the work rather than external accolades ([46:22], [50:36]).

• Acceptance of Human Limitations: Lyle acknowledges the inherent limitations in both giving and receiving therapy, promoting self-reliance and personal accountability in the journey toward growth ([13:44], [17:54]).

Notable Quotes:

• Lyle at [26:09]:
  "The more you just wind up being like a sad sack."

• Lyle at [29:41]:
  "You already have the answers. Right."

• Lyle at [32:49]:
  "Nothing beats a gecko. Let's be real."

• Lyle at [46:22]:
  "That's what I hope for you. More than you getting a Grammy."

Conclusion:
Lyle's introspections provide a deep and relatable layer to the episode, offering listeners a glimpse into the challenges of balancing personal struggles with the desire to help others. His reflections encourage a more action-oriented and self-aware approach to personal growth and support.

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Final Thoughts

"SHOULD I KEEP DOING FAVORS FOR HIM?" is a poignant exploration of personal sacrifice, career uncertainty, and the pursuit of passion. Through authentic conversations and Lyle's honest reflections, the episode sheds light on the complexities of emotional support, the struggles of aspiring professionals, and the importance of following one's true passions despite fears and setbacks.

Engaging Highlights:

• Rafi's Emotional Dilemma
  Understanding the fine line between support and self-sacrifice.

• Seth's Career Hesitancy
  Navigating self-doubt in the pursuit of a helping profession.

• Shelly's Passion and Perseverance
  Balancing creative dreams with practical challenges.

• Lyle's Personal Introspections
  Reflecting on the efficacy and limits of traditional therapy.

This episode serves as a testament to the human spirit's resilience and the ongoing quest for balance and fulfillment in the face of life's myriad challenges.

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Note: This summary intentionally omits advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the meaningful discussions and insights shared during the episode.

Transcript

[Lyle]

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[Alexis]

I love it when his daughter moves back in.

[Lyle]

The last time you walked out that door, you looked back at me and.

[Alexis]

Gave me a double bird.

[Lyle]

I was 18. The double bird was how I ended all our conversations. The wheels come off. Can we try to talk to each other like rational adults? Have you watched the news lately?

[Daniel Tosh]

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[Lyle]

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[Lyle]

Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcast called Tosh show, brought to you by iheart Podcasts. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities and certainly not comedians. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you. Listen, Toss show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello?

[Shelly]

Oh.

[Rafi]

Oh, my goodness.

[Lyle]

What up? What up?

[Rafi]

What up? How are you?

[Lyle]

You know, I'm. I'm doing okay. I. It's like the afternoon where I'm recording this. And I like mornings. I hate nights. Nights are scary and uncertain and weird. But days are great. They have so much potential and light. It's good. What's your name?

[Rafi]

Yeah, my name's Alexis.

[Lyle]

Alexis, what's going on? Alexis, what brings you to call a lizard on the phone today?

[Rafi]

My goodness. Here, I'm gonna, like, catch my breath a little bit. I'm, like, excited. I've Been listening to your podcast for, like, the past three years.

[Lyle]

Kick ass.

[Rafi]

No, Yeah, I guess what I'm calling about, I actually have, like, I want to chat. I don't want, like, this therapy.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Rafi]

Aspect of it. Yeah. So, like, for me personally, I'm going through, like, a bit of, like, a big life change at the moment. I just. Well, not recently, but, like, like seven months pregnant currently.

[Lyle]

Whoa.

[Rafi]

No. Yeah, but, like, with this guy's baby that I had, like, met in rehab, I'd went through, like, it was my first time, like, going into treatment in 2024 in January. We had dated a bit, found out I was pregnant. I was able to, like, stay clean through all this. But this dude, like, like, struggled with his sobriety, which I understand and everybody understands whenever you're, like, going through rehabilitation. But crazy, crazy, crazy stuff he turned out. Like, whenever I talked to him in the beginning about, like, children and stuff, he told me he didn't have any. But he had been, like, deployed in Germany before, and he had had a child in Germany, like, this whole shebang where, like, this German girl, like, ended up talking to me, like, months later about it. I was already pregnant at that point. He went into, like, a veterans homeless shelter and started getting into, like, really hard drugs, even though he'd been sober up till then and stuff. And now I'm just kind of, like, taking care of him because he lives in a state separate from, like, all of his family and stuff. I just kind of like. Like last week I spent like, $100 on groceries for him. I like, randomly bring him joints so he doesn't drink. I don't know. And it's kind of like. Sorry, I'm rambling.

[Lyle]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, so just to be clear, like, this guy you met everyhab, you're still, like, he is, like, living together?

[Rafi]

No, I'm not living with him. I'm living with my parents now. I was in a sober living before. Are you, like, where you live? Sorry.

[Lyle]

And is he, like. Is he your boyfriend? Are you guys still together?

[Rafi]

No, we are not together. I actually broke up with him, like, two weeks before I found out I was pregnant and then changed my phone number.

[Lyle]

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding the story at all, but. So you and the guy that you're bringing stuff to and getting groceries for, is this the guy who's the father of the kid inside of you right now?

[Rafi]

Yeah, he. Yeah, he's the father of the child.

[Lyle]

So you broke up with him eight months ago or seven months ago?

[Rafi]

Yeah. I broke up with him, like, right before I found out that I was pregnant.

[Lyle]

So I mean this genuinely. Why are you still running errands for him?

[Rafi]

Because his family, like, lives, like, we live in Ohio and his family lives in Texas, and he's just kind of all alone. And whenever I see him, like, he just looks, like, really sad. He just dwells inside all the time. It just makes. I'm. I have, like, a lot of hormones for him, I guess, that make me emotional for him, but I don't want anything with him, like, romantically or even, like, sexually. Like, I just want to, like, help him out because it's going to be like, my daughter's father at some point. I don't know.

[Lyle]

Does he do anything for you?

[Rafi]

He listens sometimes, like, whenever. Like, I also struggle with having friends, like, outside of my family, but I have a big family, so there. I can rely on them that way. But he's, like, who I go to if I'm, like, complaining about, like, family members. So he, like, provides something, and again, like, he'll get to be. Which he was already a dad before, technically, and he kind of, like, just, like, gave up on that kid, I guess.

[Shelly]

So.

[Rafi]

I don't know why I'm expecting him to treat the baby I'm carrying any differently.

[Lyle]

How old are you guys? I'm just curious.

[Rafi]

I'm 24. He just turned 26 in, like, November.

[Lyle]

Mm. How are you feeling about the whole situation?

[Rafi]

Well, right now I just feel really overwhelmed with, like, the upcoming baby, and a lot of life changes are happening. Like, the company I'm working for, they're, like, closing down. Like, they declared bankruptcy and stuff. He's. I don't know. I just want him to get it together to Helped me feel a bit at ease. I'm excited about the baby.

[Lyle]

Mm.

[Rafi]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Well, you know, I also. I'm curious. I mean, so this is. This was, like, an accidental pregnancy. Is. It's. Is. Did it kind of take you a second to, like, come to terms with it and be excited about it?

[Rafi]

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. My mom was, like, a big player in me coming to terms with it and very encouraging about me keeping it and, like, supportive, so. But at first, I was very much on the lines about, like, what I could provide, and then, like, I didn't really have an active father, so. And I knew, like, he probably wasn't going to be very active, but I was hoping, like, otherwise, I don't know.

[Lyle]

Yeah, well, it's. It's. I mean, this. Like, would you even consider this Guy like your friend.

[Rafi]

Yeah, that's the thing about it. Like, out of a lot of the relationships I've had. And what I like about him so much is that me and him get along in a very friendly way. Like, we get along in a playful way. He's just, like, also really evil, I guess it's like I, like, differentiate his evilness from him. I think too much, and I need to get better at accepting. Like, maybe that's just, like, his entire character. Like, that is him. It's not just, like, these moods he has or whatever.

[Lyle]

Evil. Evil's a strong word. What made you pick the word? What made you pick, but something made you say it. Well, I mean. Yeah. What made you say evil?

[Rafi]

Like, the reason why I decided to break up with him is that I was already teetering with breaking up with him because I could, like. I, like, noticed that he had, like, relapsed, but he wasn't admitting to it. And he, like, threatened to, like, share a lot of intimate photos of me on, like, my parents. Yeah. And then, like, he was gonna kill himself. I had to call the police on him, like, two separate days and even meet up. Yeah. With them to him. Yeah. And then I changed my phone number, and then I found out I was pregnant, so I reached out, and then when his other German baby. Mom. What?

[Lyle]

Sorry, what's your name again?

[Rafi]

It's Alexis.

[Lyle]

Alexis. So why. Why are you still running errands for this guy again?

[Rafi]

I'm just trying. I think maybe if I, like, help him out enough and he can, like, get situated enough and, like, get out of this hole he's in, like, my baby would probably be able to have, like, her dad around. But I don't know if there's, like, any saving him, because just since I've been pregnant, he's been through, like, detox or rehab, like, five. Like. Like going back and forth, like, as a Hail Mary, to get, like, me to, like, forgive him, and then he just relapses or messes up again, like, right after.

[Lyle]

Look, brother, let me ask you a question here. Do you. I mean, do you feel like you're putting effort into this guy, like, at your own detriment?

[Rafi]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I see, like, some sort of benefit. I don't know.

[Lyle]

You ever talk to a real therapist about this?

[Rafi]

I had a therapist, yeah. But I left the program I was in to come home to be pregnant because I couldn't stay there pregnant. But, yeah, I should probably get another therapist.

[Lyle]

You know, I kind of asked this Already. But, like, I mean, how you feeling about the whole thing? Like, how are you feeling about, you know, getting kind of as. As. As you said. Like, how are you feeling about, like, running errands for this guy to your own detriment?

[Rafi]

I don't know. I just. Again, I just kind of want to help him out. And then, like, I guess whenever. Like, my kids, like, older. I can tell her. Like, at least I tried. Whenever I have to explain, like, why he's, like, not around or something, or hopefully, like, he would be, but I don't know. I'm just trying to. I don't know. Again, I just wish he'd get it together. I keep telling him to, like, go home to Texas and be around family, like, because he relies on me as his only source of contact. But he could be lying about that. I don't know. I just. I just really want this dude to, like, get it together in some degree, like, at all.

[Lyle]

Mm.

[Rafi]

But I understand that's not my problem either, and I should be focused on, like, the baby stuff, but I feel like that they're interlinked.

[Lyle]

Mm.

[Rafi]

I don't know.

[Lyle]

I mean. Yeah, dude, it's. Well, it's so hard because there's, like, a. So it's. It's weird. I feel like as I'm getting older, I. I'm personal. Like, personally, like, learning more about, like, relationships with other people and the. I think there's something to be said about. Yeah. Kind of what you're saying where you're like, listen, I'm trying my best here. And you, like, you. You gotta, like. I think there's a thing of, like, accepting that you cannot change a person.

[Rafi]

Oh, yeah.

[Lyle]

This is like accepting you kind of change a person, but knowing that you tried your best to uphold your end of the deal in a situation such as this. And hopefully the way to go about it is like, look, man, I'm gonna uphold my end of this fucking deal, and I'm gonna do the best I can within my finite, fine, flawed human ability. And whatever. Whatever the happens after that, it was, you know, I had no say in it. I only. I only did the thing with the part that I had the thing in, you know.

[Rafi]

No, yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm hoping that once I, like, pop the baby out that I will feel like my role with him was kind of finished. Like, I helped him up to the extent where I could finally be like, okay, I need to be focused on this thing now. And I did my best, and maybe meeting her will help change something in Him? I don't know. We'll see. Hopefully. Who knows? I do need to, like, back off a bit at some point and, like, just let him, like, sit in his shit a little bit to pull himself together.

[Lyle]

Well, yeah, I mean, look, if this guy's not giving you anything back of value to your life, right? Like, that's the. That's the question you have to ask yourself is like, is this person's presence in my life remotely fucking valuable? And if it's not, then, you know, I don't know. I guess, what are you doing? Because you could also. I mean, I don't know how I developed your own life is. Or what you kind of want for yourself and how much of the attention you're giving to this guy is detracting you from that. And I think if. If you felt like this guy, if you really in your gut felt like this guy's presence in your life was important to you, then it would be worthwhile to sacrifice, you know, some of yourself for it. But if not, then, yeah, I don't really know what. What's going on.

[Rafi]

No, that's. Yeah, like, that's a real thing, though. Like, I probably. Yeah. Yeah, I need to. I need to figure out, like, balancing, like, what if I had more like. Like, like I said, like, when the baby comes, that's going to be something that would need my full attention and I would feel more fulfilling and stuff. To where I'm not like, I don't even know. I don't even know. But I am super excited that I got to talk to you, though. I've tried to call you so many times now, so I was very excited.

[Lyle]

I'm glad, you know, I'm glad I.

[Rafi]

Got up because I was so excited.

[Lyle]

I'm glad I got to talk to you, too. I've been. I, you know, I've been. I've been on a lot of rants lately in my own brain and. And on the live stream thing of this, just talking about, you know, I. I'm like, so. I'm like, so burnt out on, like, the. I. I don't. The advice portion of this podcast. I'm just starting to hate, like, when people are like, I don't know what to do here. I'm always. I. I just in my gut, I'm just like, I don't know, dude. I don't know. Like, I don't. I think, I think, I think, yeah, I get burnt out on that because I don't fucking know what to do in life at all. Life is is really big and scary to me, and I don't know how to deal with, like, a lot of shit. But I liked. I liked talking to you about this because it's. It's a bit of a. You know, I feel. I feel like we kind of are, like, talk. Talking through something, you know, it felt. It felt. I felt. I felt good. I felt. I enjoyed. And I also. I liked hearing your perspective on this situation and hearing what's going on with you. It was cool.

[Rafi]

Thank you. I enjoyed getting to, like, let out my yapping a little bit, and that's all I really. It was nice to get to do that and get to be listened to. So thank you for that.

[Lyle]

Alexis, is there anything else you want to say to the people, the computer, before we go?

[Rafi]

Have a good night. Thank you.

[Lyle]

Hey, you too. Bye. Bye.

[Rafi]

All right. Goodbye.

[Lyle]

Hey. What's your name?

[Seth]

Rafi.

[Lyle]

Rafi. What's up, Rafi?

[Seth]

What's going on? I don't know, man. You know, I just started grad school to be a therapist, and the more I learn about it, it's really interesting. I just don't know if I'm built for this.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think being a real. I. I'm just gonna be honest. I think being a real therapist, I don't want to say sounds awful, that I think that's, like, a simplification, but I think it requires you to be a very specific kind of person with, like, a specific brain and a specific amount of, like, emotional tolerance. I remember one time I was talking to. I saw a therapist for a good. For, like. Like, I saw a therapist for, like, pretty much all of the summer of 2024. And I remember I was really, like, go. It. Going off to him. I, like, really, really emotionally going off to him. And I. I was like. I was crying and I was going off to him, and I. I remember I was looking. I was like, oh. I was like, you know, deeply in my own emotions, but I was looking at him and I. And after I finished my rant, I said to him, I was like, you have a really hard job, you know, like. Because I don't know how the. I would feel if somebody just said everything that I just said with so much direness and emotion to. To me, you know, I would feel, yes. I was completely insane.

[Seth]

Yeah. Did you feel, like, better? Did it feel like. Do you feel like it worked? Because my fear is, like, I'm just gonna not help people. Like, they're gonna come to me and, like, I'm gonna try My best, you know, giving empathetic space and just listening openly. No judgment and not like giving advice or anything, but just listening. Right. So do you feel like that actually made an impact for you?

[Lyle]

That's a good question. I think it helps in the moment. But one of the things that I don't like about therapy is that, well, it's such an individual thing, because for some people who maybe have trouble processing their own emotions, like, it's helpful to talk them out. For me, I'm a big journal guy. Like, I journal almost every day, and I've been doing it regularly for like eight years. And that's therapy. That's therapy for me is journaling. That's how I get out my emotions and my thoughts and my feelings. For a little bit, I was like, I haven't been doing this that much recently, but I had a phase where I was like, writing journals and then copy. Pasting them into chat GPT and being like, what do you think about this? And it would give me back some good feedback. And I liked that. And therapy is kind of meant to scratch that same itch. Are you gonna be good at it? I mean, some people are gonna. Well, yeah. I mean, some people are gonna hate you. Some people, they're gonna say a bunch of stuff to you about their life, and then you're gonna say something like, well, how do. How do you feel about that? And they're gonna go, this guy, I hate that. I'm paying him a hundred dollars an hour or 200 or 300, whatever the fuck it is. And they're gonna hate you, and they're gonna think that you're useless. But then other people, you'll. They'll say a bunch of shit to you, and you'll go, well, how do you feel about that? And they'll go, oh, my God, no one's ever asked me that before. This is how I feel about it. And, you know, you. You'll just be like a blank rubber wall for them to bounce their shit off of and figure it out by themselves. That's how therapy felt to me as I was talking to this guy and I was talking to him about a bunch of shit. And while I was talking to him, I was going, well, maybe actually this. And, well, you know, actually, okay, now that I'm talking about it, the conclusion is actually this. And I. But I was. I felt like I was getting ripped off because I was doing therapy on myself basically while this guy was, you know, standing there. So maybe subconscious.

[Seth]

It's so weird because you got to, like, find that right balance of, like, not giving someone advice and telling them what to do, but also, like, gently pushing them to do the right thing or just, like, what they perceive to be the right thing for them. And, like, how do I hold my back? It's just been really interesting. And, like, I think I'm built for it. I just hope that, like, I can do it properly and, like, not harm people because, like, I've had bad therapists, you know, and, like, there's not, like, a determining factor. There's not, like, a line in the sand that makes you good therapist, bad therapist, other than the, like, ethically incorrect things to do, which there are.

[Lyle]

Yeah. I don't know, man. I, I, I, I. It sounds trite, but the more I do this show and the older I get and the more I think about stuff and the more I, I ride the roller coaster of my own life, the more I, I just have less and less answers to any of the things, right? And I, and therap and therapy is kind of there for you to work out the answers to your own things, but therapy is not like a pill you can take to change your life. It's not like, you know, I don't know, sometimes you have to do stuff. That was the thing. That was why I got sick of therapy. As I was talking about my problems and I thought about a couple things. First of all, this might sound insane, but when I was regularly going to therapy and regularly journaling about my problems, part of me, Part of me thought to myself, by. By talking about this stuff, what's, what's the line between talking through your problems in a healthy way versus talking about your problems and thinking about them so much that you center your life around your problems? And I got to a point where I was like, I think I'm. I think the center piece of my life is not my joy, is not the. My relationships. It's not what I have. It's my fucking bullshit fucking shit that I'm always complaining about in my journal or in therapy. And to. To what point is it healthy for me to work these things out versus to what point do I just go, you know what? I'm just gonna try to think about things differently, and I'm gonna try to do the most annoying thing of all time, which is take some form of actual action, whatever that looks like, to deal with my problems instead of just repeating them over and over and fucking over again. I don't know what the hell, like.

[Seth]

Awareness is, like, the first step, but it's not, it doesn't fucking do.

[Lyle]

No, it doesn't do it.

[Seth]

Aware of a problem, right? Like, it's cool. It's like, ah, cool. Now I know I have a problem, but like, what am I supposed to do now? Like, you're so right, man. That taking action part fucking hard.

[Lyle]

Yeah, you got to do, you got to do stuff. You got to do stuff. Like I hated, I don't know, like, like, I don't know. I don't want to like, get into my own fucking problems. But like, I just, I just, for a while I was like. And I'd like to think I'm a fairly action oriented person. I'm trying to become more of one. But the more you talk through your problems and the less you take any action or do anything about them, you just, you just wind up being a he. Just from, from, I'm saying this from experience, the more you just wind up being like a sad sack, you know, like, and I got kind of tired of it and I was like, dude.

[Seth]

I've been doing, I feel like I've been doing a lot of like, relearning about like, what therapy is just by being in school. And like, I had a thought that there was people who just kind of belonged in therapy, but that's just like so wrong. Like, you're not supposed to be in therapy for a long time.

[Lyle]

No.

[Seth]

Like, if you are, like, it's very special cases, but you're not supposed to be in therapy forever. You're really supposed to be there until your shit is solved and you get out. Like, like sitting with the sadness.

[Lyle]

Like, yeah, you don't want to just sit with it forever. You don't want to just dwell and dwell and dwell and dwell and dwell forever. Right? At a certain point, I think, I think you got to, you got to, you know, you know, go make up, make a plan and like, do some shit. But, but also, also some, some, everyone's kind of oriented differently. And I, I, I'm only speaking from, like, I really, this is just my like, experience in my life and I think it would be arrogant of me to assume that my life experience is, is mirrors everyone else's. And so for some people, like, genuinely, some people who have not had opportunities to talk things out, maybe because they haven't discovered journaling or they haven't, you know, they don't have a strong support system, you know, it could be helpful. It could be helpful. So I, again, I'm just speaking from my own experience. I'm not, I don't want to say that my, My experience is. Is God or anything. Yeah, I think being an actual, like being a real therapist, I think would be exhausting. I mean, I get pretty exhausted a lot of the times doing this show and this is like a total bullshit thing.

[Seth]

And so I don't know if I call it bullshit.

[Lyle]

No, I'm just. I'm being self deprecating, you know? Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I think, like, being a real and. Well, it's fine. I mean, yeah, I get exhausted doing the show. Like being like a real therapist who has like genuine accountability, you know, because they're, they're like a medical professional. Yeah, it sounds like a lot.

[Seth]

I don't even feel like that part scares me. Like the, like the, like ethics of it all or just keeping with the code and, you know, keeping with laws and, you know, telling clients about informed consent. And I don't feel like I'm not. Those things aren't scaring me. It's just the concept of, like, being in a room with someone and then them looking to me as some sort of, like, person with answers when I'm just me. Like, I feel like, I don't know, like, does my education. Does my years of, like, working in a practicum space or internship or whatever, is that really gonna make me prepared? I don't know.

[Lyle]

Well, no. You? Well, yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Well, anyone who looks. Anyone who comes to therapy looking for answers. Yeah, I mean, good luck. Well, I don't think. I mean, you know, I think, like, answers can, you know, only you, You. You already have the answers. Right.

[Seth]

So maybe it's just my. That concept of therapy is not just in my own head. It's not. It's looking for answers, but that's not it for everyone.

[Lyle]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Therapy is. It's weird. I. I know. I. I really, I. I found a lot of joy and I'm only. I'm. I'm not trying to be like a. Whatever. I talked on the podcast a little while ago back when I was really. I'm less into it now because I think I got. I got a little too into it and I started like, what I. What I'm. What I'm trying to say is like, I still love journaling, but journaling and throwing my journals into ChatGPT was really helpful. I could see it being kind of detrimental in some sense because I had a certain point, like, I was. I was kind of amazed at the technology. I was amazed that, like, I could get objective, non Emotional, logical, well thought out, well reasoned answers from a machine. And I, and I was kind of intoxicated by that for a while, but then I started living my life. Not living my life, but I started kind of thinking in terms of the machine. And that was a little too rigid for me, I think. But it's helpful if you're, if you've never done it, you know, it's a helpful thing to do, especially if you can't afford.

[Seth]

I have it. I use chat GPT here and there for like assignments and. But like I haven't put my own personal, like, you know, whatever I'm dealing with into chat GPT. I haven't thought about that.

[Lyle]

I'm not gonna put. I'm not gonna put my. I'm not gonna put my Lyle stamp of endorsement on it by any means. But I was doing it for a while and it was, it was helpful for me for the duration I was doing it. And I still, I still, I still like use it. I still use it for advice a lot because it's.

[Seth]

Yeah, but nothing beats a gecko. Let's be real.

[Lyle]

No, no, no. It's better than me. It's way. Oh God, it's way better than me. Dear God, please. If you have a question. Yeah, Cuz chat. Well, cuz chat GPT, you'll never ask it something and it'll go. You'll ever ask Chat GPT something and have it go, oh, I don't know, man. Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of crazy. You know, I'll do that.

[Rafi]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Nine times out of ten it's not.

[Seth]

Validating to put something into chat GPT and give it. Give me like 500, 700 words. Like sometimes I don't want all of that, you know, but I guess you can tailor your message and have them give you less.

[Lyle]

Well, I think you'll. You'll die one day and before that probably, probably find some joys. Is that comforting?

[Seth]

Oh, somewhat.

[Lyle]

Somewhat. Okay.

[Seth]

I like the last part.

[Lyle]

There's a good. What do you mean? What do you mean? I know about it. You're definitely gonna die one day. That's 100 thing that I'm certain of. I'm a hundred percent certain that you're gonna die one day. And I'm, I'm a hundred. I'm certain that one day you and I will die. And I am optimistic that between now and then we will find moments of joy in some way shape or form and also moments of, of sadness and of horniness and of being really hungry and of having diarrhea and of. Of. Of eating a piece of candy. Maybe.

[Seth]

That does make me feel better.

[Rafi]

That.

[Shelly]

That.

[Seth]

Yes. That was good. Thank you.

[Lyle]

What's your name again?

[Seth]

It's Rossi.

[Lyle]

Rahi.

[Seth]

Rafi.

[Lyle]

It's Rafael, but I go by Rafi. Well, Rafi, listen, man. God bless Uzbekistan, and God bless your. Your aunt and.

[Seth]

Your aunt.

[Lyle]

I'll. Scott. God bless your mother. You're fucking on. Is there anything else you want to say to the people of the computer before we go? No.

[Seth]

Have a good night. Drink water. We're all gonna die.

[Lyle]

We're all gonna die.

[Seth]

Peace. Thank you.

[Lyle]

Hi, Rafi. That was Rafi. That was nice. I liked that. Therapy's crazy. I don't have anything else to add to that conversation that I don't think I already said. Yeah, I'm still trying to debate. I don't know. I'm curious. People stuff. If you're. If you listen to this podcast or you watch it on YouTube or whatever, let me know. I don't. I don't know, the conversation we just had. I'm genuinely curious what other people's thoughts are on it. So leave a comment with your thoughts on. Like, I don't know, is therapy helpful for you? Like, what's. What's been helpful for you? Like, I guess the general question I'm curious about for myself and for the people listening is like. Like moving your life forward or, like, dealing with your shit. Like, what's. What's been the most helpful thing because. Yeah, I'm just to reiterate, like, I'm so. I'm so torn between how much of talking about your problems is centering them in your life versus how much. How is centering them in your life versus like, dealing with it? I really don't know. So I'm curious what people think. So leave a. Leave a comment or. Or don't. Or don't. Or do whatever you want.

[Alexis]

Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Tim Allen]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Lyle]

Hey, I was just in an accident. Don't worry.

[Rafi]

We'll get you taken care of.

[Alexis]

At Ameca, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking.

[Lyle]

It's human.

[Alexis]

Amica. Empathy is our best policy.

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[Lyle]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Lyle]

Uh oh.

[Matt Rogers]

In a laugh out loud battle of determination and grit, the father of the bride, played by Will Ferrell and sister of the other bride, played by Reese Witherspoon chaotically go head to head and will stop at nothing to pull off an unforgettable celebration for the ones they love. And if you think you've been to a wedding where crazy things happen, prepare for alligator attacks, sabotage, shipwrecks, cornhole and all star comedy cameos. Will the couples make it down the aisle? Will fire regulations be violated? Find out. In this perfect blend of hijinks and heartstrings, it's time to RSVP for Feral vs. Witherspoon in their new wedding comedy. You're cordially invited. Watch January 30th on Prime Video.

[Tim Allen]

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[Lyle]

How you doing?

[Shelly]

Not much. I'm actually doing pretty good. How are you, man?

[Lyle]

I'm doing actually pretty good myself. Is there anything in particular you called in to want to talk about Shelley?

[Shelly]

Well, you did say earlier you're not really in the mood for advice.

[Lyle]

Well, I don't, you know, forget about what I said earlier. You can tell me, you know, don't. Whatever, whatever you want to talk about, I'm in for.

[Shelly]

Honestly, I've been doing really good the past times I've tried to call in. I always need like some deep, like, you know, some, some type of specific advice, but I don't really have anything right now.

[Lyle]

What is it that. Okay, well then what is it that was going on and what changed?

[Shelly]

I think I was feeling really lost about what I wanted to do in my life. I remember I felt like I didn't have any goals to work for. So I'm turning 21. I've been doing community college and I honestly just did that because it was expected to for my family. And I told myself I wanted to get in psychology, but that shit is kind of lame. Like I don't want to do school. So now I'm pursuing audio engineering and music because that's my true passion.

[Lyle]

Very cool. And yeah, I mean, are you, are you feeling like you have more direction now?

[Shelly]

I do. I sound like this perfect trade school that's only like 40 minutes away. And it's everything I like, want and need for like a day job in audio engineering. And also it's like I can learn to be a self producing artist too and use all their fancy equipment.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Cool. Is that, is that like the, the ultimate goal? Like a day job in some form of audio engineering and then the dream is to be like a recording artist.

[Shelly]

The dream for me, honestly lies in singing. I feel like being more like an artist and not necessarily being famous, but being able to just do that as much as I can and getting paid at the same time would be great. So, yeah, that is the true dream. Like, I get jealous every time I, you know, be someone. Like, what's like a recent artist? Like, you know, just like these pop stars that don't even, they don't touch their instruments, their producers and audio engineers make the music for them. But I want to be able to sing, play every instrument, produce it all, mix it. So yeah, that is the ultimate goal right now.

[Lyle]

I like it. I like it. That's cool. It's nice. It's nice to you Know, for as jealous as you may feel about those people, look, it's nice to have something that you want and care about doing. It's valuable. It's a diamond to have a dream. I know that sounds like something from a Disney movie, but I really mean it. I think it's. It's nice to have something to be excited at. The potential of a thing that could happen or. I mean, most. But. But actually, I mean, look, most of all. Most of all. Most of all is I'm excited for you because you seem like you actually just fucking want to make the music, which is the most important part.

[Shelly]

Okay, I will say it's not all like paradise. I'm having issues finding original sound and original melodies because I'm so used to singing everyone else's music and songs and covers. So that's the one thing that scares me is like, shit, wait, what if I. Like, I can teach myself every instrument, but how do I compose something like I've never heard of or something like someone else has never heard of before? So that's the scary part. But I think it's something I'm going to have to learn along the way, you know? So, yeah, part of me scared. Part of me feels I get, like, imposter syndrome. Like, oh, maybe I'm. I'm not as good as I want to or hope I am and will be, but, you know, I don't want to be like, my father's like, oh, you should get into medical field and, you know, make, you know, this much and work in fluorescent lighting 12 hours a day. Like, that sounds like I'd rather kill myself.

[Lyle]

Yeah, no. Yeah. Being in med school and working under fluorescent lighting sucks. I mean, look, some people. Well, I'm glad it doesn't. I'm glad not everyone thinks that it sucks because if everyone thought it sucked, then there. There'd be no doctors when that would be bad. But, yeah. Yeah, dude, look, I'm good. You. I'm glad to hear that you let. You have a thing you want to do. You have some sort of direction. You know, I just.

[Tim Allen]

For.

[Lyle]

I guess, for anyone listening to this, and. And you're right. I did say earlier that I'm not, You know, I'm a little burnt out on advice, but I feel like I've just. I've learned a couple fucking things, and one of them is like that. That just having a. Some semblance of a sense of direction of a thing you want to do is. Is where the real beauty lies. I think the beauty lies in that and in enjoying the work more than it does in any kind of material success. Right? Yeah. Cuz your material success is it. Everything leads back to the actual work of whatever it is you're doing so you can have material success. And it's, it's, it's, it's great and it can be beautiful, but it all comes back to, you know, the work. I mean, I mean, in my life it's like, you know, whatever. I go to interview Doja Cat and I do a Vice documentary and I tour Australia and you know, I got all these cool things. They all lead me right back here talking to you, doing the work of, of making the fucking podcasts and whatnot. You know what I mean? So it all. Whatever. Ha. It all, it all, it all leads back to the work. So if all you have is the work and you don't have the material success that you imagine, it's the same fucking thing. Because the material success you imagine leads you right back to work. Right? Like you're always, you're, you're in this. You're. Whether you're the most. Whether you're fucking making music in your bedroom for zero people or your, your Kendrick Lamar. Yeah. You know, you're in the studio, you're both in the studio, you're both dragging shit around, timeline on your computer and coming up with stuff. So that's, I mean, that's where everything is.

[Shelly]

Yeah, definitely. And I've been watching, so I've been doing like this thing called Mindful Doom scrolling where I've trained. Here's. It sounds bad, but before it used to be processed garbage that I would forget about, but now I switched over to like YouTube shorts because it's tailored to all of my, you know, like, of a music theory artist interviews. And I really like Tyler, the creator. He is saying things like, oh, wait, I'm going blank. He just has really good advice. It's just like, what are you scared of? Go for it. Oh, one interview I really like, he's like, he like, he put it where no one knows what you're capable of except for you. Like, no one knows what you're gonna be doing in the next five years. Everyone just knows you from what you've already done. So he's telling everyone at 19, I'm gonna get a Grammy. I'm gonna get a Grammy. And they're like, no, you're not. Like, you're just a, you're just a kid. You're like, shut up. And he was so confident, he tweeted it like forever. Ago and then retweeted it when he won his Grammy. Like, it was just, like, so inspiring. And it's like I'm now telling everyone, like, hey, by the way, I'm. I'm gonna win a Grammy, whether that's in singing or producing.

[Lyle]

Why? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on. Why are you telling everyone you're gonna win a Grammy?

[Shelly]

Because it's. It's gonna happen. I. It's like if you.

[Lyle]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I just. Hold on, hold on. I just want to make sure you heard everything. I. I just want to make sure you heard the rant that I went on. Did you hear the rant I just went on?

[Shelly]

I. Yes, but it's also. Part of me is like, I would rather get my hopes up than think the opposite. Like, I'm never gonna win a Grand.

[Lyle]

Okay, all right, you know what? You know what? I. You know what? I hope you win a Grammy. I hope you win a Grammy. And if. And if the idea that someday you may win a Grammy makes you feel good and makes you want to work and do your thing, then. Then. Then please continue to tell people that you're going to get a Grammy.

[Shelly]

Well, maybe I shouldn't. Actually, I'm taking it back because I recently looked up the list of artists who hasn't. I don't have Grammys, and Nicki Minaj does not have a Grammy, and I think she should, but maybe she just hasn't got one yet.

[Lyle]

Well, and I hear. Yeah, yeah, but the Grammys are just like. Yeah, but the Grammys are like, that's. Yeah, but that's all. That's like, whatever. That's like 10 people who, like, think that they're important enough that they're, you know, they matter, but they don't. Yeah, who gives a shit about the fucking Grammys?

[Shelly]

Shit, you're right.

[Lyle]

It's just a. But it's just a bunch of people. The Grammys and the Oscar. These are. These are, like, a group of, like, 10 fucking people who have successfully convinced the masses that their elite opinions on things matter and create reality. And it. Then it's complete and total bullshit and doesn't matter at all. I really hope that you. You know what I hope? I hope that you can make $50,000 a year making music. That's what I hope for you. I hope you. I, I. I hope. I hope you. I hope you can achieve higher than that. But my baseline hope for you is that you make $50,000 a year making music, and you and you don't have to work at Chipotle, and you can pay off your student debt and you can make the songs you really want to make. That make you happy to make. That's what I hope for you. More than you getting a Grammy.

[Shelly]

You know what? Yeah. You're good, dude. Are you. Are you a therapist?

[Lyle]

No. I'm a crazy person, but I think about these things a lot. I do. I think about these things a lot.

[Shelly]

You're right. I think I definitely Setting those realistic goals while having, like, you know, wishful thinking.

[Lyle]

Yeah. Again, if your wishful thinking makes you feel happy and motivated, then God bless you. What's your name again?

[Shelly]

Yes, My name is Shelly.

[Lyle]

Shelly. Yeah. Fuck it, Shelly. Where can we find you?

[Shelly]

I don't. That's my thing. I don't have any, like, an online presence.

[Lyle]

You want to. You want to win a Grammy? You don't have a. My God. All right, well, go make one. Goddamn.

[Shelly]

Okay, here. I will call in, like, you know, I'll have more. I was gonna have a gig, but I had to cancel it because I was moshing and someone punched me in the throat. And I can't really sing right now. It's getting better.

[Lyle]

Yeah, that's called fucking around and finding out.

[Shelly]

No, I didn't want to mosh. My friend pushed me in, and I was like, no, this is too much. It was, like, a really shitty venue and it smelled bad, and it was actually. I had a really horrible week, but now it's good because that was like. I had to cancel my first music gig. They were gonna pay me, like, three. 25 for three hours of singing. And I'm like, dude, I can do that.

[Lyle]

That's pretty good.

[Shelly]

But. So that's the thing that's making depressed is right now I can't sing, and I'm a phenomenal singer. Like, so it just. No, singing just kind of makes me, like, the fresh. But it's like, just for now. Just for now. We're taking a break.

[Lyle]

Shelly, is there anything you want to say to the people at the computer before we go?

[Shelly]

I just want to say thank you for being you and stay green.

[Lyle]

God bless Afghanistan and. Talk to you later, Shelly.

[Shelly]

All right. I'll have an interview with you when I'm rich and famous one day.

[Lyle]

See you later.

[Shelly]

Bye.

[Lyle]

I feel like that thing she said at the end indicated that she. I don't think she listened to anything that I said, but also, I'll. You know what? I don't think she listen to anything that I said. But that's okay. I also think I'm a total. I also genuinely. I think I'm a total bummer. Yeah, that's why I don't like giving advice is. That's, that's why. Because I'm just a bummer. Maybe she totally should aspire to win a Grammy. Maybe I'm just being a bummer and I'm wrong and you should want to, like, you know, I don't know. Big dreams are good. Maybe I'm just jealous. Maybe I'm jealous of her. Maybe that's it. Maybe I'm. Maybe I used to have. I used to wanna watch. Well, actually, I don't know. I mean, I think I accomplished a lot of the things I used to want to. I used to want to accomplish, you know? And so I feel like I've seen what that looks like up close and it's different than what it looks like from afar. And I feel like I've kind of learned a little bit. And so that's why I said all the shit that I said. But, but I also, also, I think being. I also I've become less ambitious over the years and it's actually one of my problems that I've become a little bit less ambitious over the years. I'd like to be more ambitious. I've been pretty. I mean, I started making crap a long time ago. I've been making stuff and having ambitions for like 14 years. And yeah, maybe I. Maybe I was just jealous of her ambition. I wanted to zap it out of her. But simultaneously, I also think I have a little bit of perspective on some of this stuff. Enough to. That I. That I believe. I believe in everything I said. But yeah, whatever. Maybe I just want a Grammy. Maybe that's it.

[Alexis]

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[Alexis]

Hello?

[Lyle]

Hey, what's up?

[Alexis]

Sup? Anything up in the back?

[Lyle]

You. Are you on like speakerphone or like, what's up with you?

[Alexis]

No, I'm on Google Voice.

[Lyle]

Oh, okay. All right, all right, all right. So. And you're holding your phone up to your thing?

[Alexis]

No, I'm on PC.

[Lyle]

Okay, so you're in, like, a microphone. All right, we can check. Chat. Chat. Can you guys hear this guy?

[Alexis]

It's exactly like a phone call.

[Lyle]

All right, all right, you guys can hear this.

[Alexis]

I've done this before. I've called again. I use Seth last time.

[Lyle]

Oh, wait, so we talked before?

[Alexis]

Yes.

[Lyle]

Oh, okay. All right, well, hold on. All right, hold on. Actually, you know what? Fuck it. I usually cut this part of the podcast out where we're doing the audio check stuff, but let's just leave it in for now. Let's just leave it in.

[Alexis]

Okay.

[Lyle]

It's part of. It's part of the lore of this conversation. Okay, so we've talked before, Seth.

[Alexis]

Mm. Okay.

[Lyle]

Okay. So hold on. I'm gonna give some context. Is.

[Alexis]

Can I have a request, though? Can you not put it in the podcast?

[Lyle]

No.

[Alexis]

The Spotify podcast, Please?

[Lyle]

No. Wow.

[Alexis]

My brother listens to it.

[Lyle]

No. If you don't want to be in the podcast, then I have to hang up on you, unfortunately.

[Alexis]

Okay. No, no, it's fine. It's fine.

[Lyle]

All right, well, I'll talk to you again soon, Seth.

[Alexis]

No, no, no, no. Just put in the podcast.

[Lyle]

Okay. You. You're okay with this being in the podcast?

[Alexis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lyle]

Okay. All right, disclaimer. Bryce, are you all right? Are you. Hold on. Are you. Are you sure? Because I don't. If we have this whole conversation, I'm fine, and we just. If we have.

[Alexis]

Okay with you, you could cut it, but, you know, I'm fine with it being in there.

[Lyle]

Well, I only. Look, I only want. I only. I only want you to do this if you want to be in the podcast.

[Alexis]

Well, no, no. That's the thing is I'm 50. 50 over it, so I'm comfortable with it being online and accessible.

[Lyle]

Are you a hundred percent sure?

[Alexis]

Yes. Yes.

[Lyle]

Okay, well, I. We. I. This is recorded confirmation. You are a hundred percent sure that you want this to be in the podcast? You. I'm asking you three times, you sure? Yes. All right, we're leaving all this in. This is all this is. We're not cutting out the audio checks. We're not cutting out. This. This is all staying in.

[Alexis]

Whole thing. Whole thing.

[Lyle]

All right, so for some context is. I remember you. You're. You're 18, right?

[Alexis]

Yeah. Do you want me to do a recap? I can do?

[Lyle]

No, I. I'll. I'll do. I'll do the recap. So you're 18. You were talking about Last time we talked, you talked about how you were gonna go on it. You wanted to go on a trip, right?

[Alexis]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

But your friends weren't. Weren't gonna go with you, and you weren't gonna go. You didn't want to go without your friends, and I was telling you that you should just go anyway. And I was yelling at you a lot. And I was talking over you a lot, and I got a lot of comments on our conversation. That's. Actually.

[Alexis]

My brother texted me about it. That's why I knew he listened to it.

[Lyle]

I got a lot of comments on our conversation from people saying that I yelled at you too much and I talked over you too much. Did you see those?

[Alexis]

You were fine. Yes, I did.

[Lyle]

I also.

[Alexis]

I also know there were comments.

[Lyle]

I also thought I was fine. I also. I disagreed with those comments. I felt as though I yelled at you an appropriate amount. And I. And I. I was all over the place.

[Alexis]

I actually have notes this time.

[Lyle]

I don't regret yelling at you. Every. I. I meant every word that I yelled at your face. What are your notes? Yeah, go ahead.

[Alexis]

All right, so the context. When I called last, some dude kind of dropped a nuke on the friend group. Went to. It's fine now, actually. It's like nothing happened, except he's just not there. And it's hilarious because he's now best friends with one of our other friends. Exes and someone else's exes. So we call him the Evil League of Exes because they're all friends and, like, two of them are dating. It's hilarious. They're like the evil us. So funny, but irrelevant.

[Lyle]

So, Seth. So, Seth. Seth, let me ask you this. What's going. What's going on with you? Are you gonna take the trip?

[Alexis]

Probably not, actually.

[Lyle]

Well, why not?

[Alexis]

Gonna wait till next year?

[Lyle]

What's next? What's happening next year?

[Alexis]

No money right now.

[Lyle]

Okay. All right.

[Alexis]

And also, my friends are. I'd want. I'd be willing to wait for them because it's. They're both coming.

[Lyle]

I didn't. I. I thought. Seth, I yelled at you about this already. You want me to yell at you again? No. All right, well.

[Alexis]

But.

[Lyle]

Well, listen. Well. Oh, well, let me ask you this, man. You called back in again, and I'm curious why. I. I assume you had a specific reason.

[Alexis]

Just kind of an update. Because, like, my first semester of classes bombed it completely bombed it passed my physics class. That's it. It's crazy. So I'm trying not to do that again. And then my Other friend group went to shit. Actually, the other one's completely fine, and the other one just, like, exact same thing, but it's online, so it's, like, not as serious, but, like, talk to him daily for a few years, so it's not just like, man, whatever.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Alexis]

Trying to put together my notes, you know?

[Lyle]

Can you do me a favor? You have no. You have notes, right? Are they, like, bullet point notes?

[Alexis]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

Okay, can you just read me off all of the bullet points?

[Alexis]

Okay, so we got it based off of the online friend group event going to.

[Lyle]

Okay, could you. Hold on? Could you. Could you just read them to me, like, verbatim? Like, just, like, no context. You just read me the words.

[Alexis]

Yeah. So I have it in three. So it's before the thing that happened and after. The before is just recap about all that. And so pretty much bullet point one is done. Now we're at the online Fringer bullet point.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Alexis]

And then we'll get to what happened after.

[Lyle]

Seth, I. Can you read just the piece of paper you're looking at? Just read all the bullet points.

[Alexis]

So, number two, I think we kind of covered this in the last one. It's like, I've been gay the whole time, but then there's, like, this chick that I like, so we figured that whole thing out. Okay, gay, but I can develop feelings for chicks, and that. Okay, has to come into play. So.

[Lyle]

Okay.

[Alexis]

Chick that have known for a while. Right?

[Lyle]

Wait, hold on. What's. What. What is this?

[Alexis]

This is the point two. Because if I read the bullet points, then that spoils it.

[Lyle]

Yeah, but I just. I just was. I just want you to. You know what?

[Alexis]

It works. It works. I promise.

[Lyle]

Seth. You know what? I. I just. I. Can you just. Can you. Can you read me the bullet points?

[Alexis]

Okay. Met the chick, fumbled that thing that I just explained in After Effects. Try not to fail classes. Trying not to fail them. Trying to go to classes, Figuring out how to recover from the fumble is what I need the advice on.

[Lyle]

Okay. Yeah. Okay, go ahead. All right, let's focus. Let's focus in on that. Okay, let's focus in on that. Let's focus in on that. That's. That. That's gonna be what this call is about.

[Alexis]

Focusing on the fumble.

[Lyle]

What. Go ahead. And what is the fumble? What did you fumble?

[Alexis]

So chick. Known her for, like a year. My age, online. Same interests and talk, like, daily VCs, all that. The thing is, she lives, like, 12 hours away, but, like, I've talked to her mom and. And, like, her dad I. And I've known her for, like, two years almost. So, like, I was like, oh, she's kind of cool, right? And I was like, okay, I like her more than just she's my friend. And I was like, okay, fuck it. I'll go for it. Instead of just being a little piss whim. It was a no. But then she's awkward, and now, because the whole thing is like, that friend group, I was kind of like, meh. She was really the only reason I was still friends with half the people. So it's like, do I try to salvage the relationship or do I just bail?

[Lyle]

I'm Seth. I. Seth. Seth. I. True. I truly. I only. I'm only acting like this because I'm invest. I. I mean. I mean this. I'm invested.

[Alexis]

I'm probably explaining it.

[Lyle]

No, no, I am. I am invested in you having a good life. I don't know you at all, but I'm just, like, in this moment that I'm talking to you, I'm invested in you having a good life. I'm extremely confused at what online chick. Okay, okay. What do you mean? You fumbled friends with, like. Okay, all right. You're friends with her feelings. Okay, she said she doesn't. No, that's not a fumble. That's not a fumble. That is.

[Alexis]

I feel like. No, no, no, no.

[Lyle]

Seth, Seth, Seth. Not a fumble. It's actually. It's. It's actually a field. It's actually. Hold on. It's actually a field goal. Let me tell you why it's a field goal. Let me tell you why it's a field goal. South. Let me tell you why it's a field goal. Seth. Okay.

[Alexis]

No, it's a fumble.

[Lyle]

Seth. I. Seth, I. I said I'm gonna. Seth. I'm gonna yell. Seth. I'm gonna keep yelling at you. I'm gonna yell at you again. I'm gonna yell at you. All the comments are gonna be like, lyle, why'd you yell at that guy? And I'm gonna not care, and I'm gonna be. Seth, it was not a fumble. It was a field goal. Okay, listen to me. The second you decided, you know what? I'm gonna express my feelings for this girl. And the second you grew the balls and you did it, you scored the field goal. Mm. Okay. Because now, because you're 18, and no relationship you're gonna have at this point in your life is gonna really matter all that much. But the development of the skill of having the courage to express your feelings is. Is a w. And is A field goal and is not a fumble. A fumble in this situation for you, Seth, would be if you were to never express your feelings at all and decide to play it completely safe and not risk rejection. That's a fumble, Seth.

[Alexis]

But.

[Lyle]

But what? But what?

[Alexis]

Then we'd still be talking because like.

[Lyle]

Okay, okay. Yeah, okay, okay, okay. But. But you would still be. Yes, you would. Yes, you would have a relationship that is skewed by the dishonesty of your feeling, of your. Of your feelings for her, because you would have a friendship with this woman, but you would want something more. And the fact that you want something more would be. It was. It would be what?

[Alexis]

I'd rather put up with that than the other shit.

[Lyle]

But Seth, Seth, are you like, are you in college or anything? Like, what are you doing?

[Alexis]

Yeah, I'm in college. I'm in computer engineering.

[Lyle]

Okay. Do you live on campus?

[Alexis]

Yeah.

[Lyle]

You live out. You live on a college campus? Mm, like, are you staying in a dorm? Yes, Seth, I'm. Seth, I'm gonna kill you. Go out in. Seth, you're 18. You live on a college campus. This girl that lives 12 hours away, who. You said she doesn't like you. God damn it, Seth. Go to clubs, go start clubs. Go talk to random people that you find attractive on park benches. God. But. But what, Seth?

[Alexis]

That requires socialization.

[Lyle]

It. Sure. Yeah, sure. God damn does. Seth, would you. Would you do that if I were you?

[Alexis]

If you were in my. If you were in my predicament, what would you do?

[Lyle]

If I were in your predict. Well, let me tell you something, Seth. If I was in your predicament and I was the 18 year old version of myself, I would be, you know, I was okay. When I was 18, I was actually pretty, you know, whatever. I. You know what? Here's the problem is that if I were the 18 year old version of myself, I would have 18 year old version of myself, fears and anxieties, which I. And you know what? Now that I'm talking about it, I empathize with you that you have those fears and anxieties that 18 year old version of myself would have. But I'm okay, but you get what? I'm okay, but I'm 27 version. Okay, but I'm 27 year old version of myself now. And you and I are talking and I'm trying to tell you with my 27 year old version of myself, with my brain, that you should overcome the fear that you have of the socialization and not be fixated on this, you know, this, this lady that lives 12 hours away. And so, and so, and so, and so. If I were you now, with the brain I have now, I would. I would write down a list of my interests, and I would join or start clubs related to them, and I would try to work up the cajoles to fucking talk to people, and it's really hard. I don't. I don't. I really. I don't have, like, good advice for you on. On how to get over it. But, like, you know, I mean, that's. That's the thing, man. It's a real Nike just do it situation. But again, I'm just letting you know. And I actually think I did really understand this when I was 18, is like the. The. The putting yourself out there and getting rejected is not a fumble. The. The fumble is to, you know, just. Just stay in your room and, you know, jerk off a thousand times and not do anything. You know, the goon cave. Okay. Do you. Did I yet. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm. That's all I have for you. That's all I have for you today, Seth. Call in. Call. Call in next week. We'll talk again. We'll. You know what? We're gonna. We're gonna keep doing this until you eventually call me and you're like, things are going good. I don't. I normally. I don't like. Normally. I truly. I don't like when people. I don't really like return callers. Oh, no.

[Alexis]

Other things. Other things are fine.

[Lyle]

It's just. Hold on. But I'm not a big. Hold on. I'm not a big return caller guy. Like, historically, in this podcast, I'm not a return caller guy. I want to make an exception for you, Seth. If you. You call it, you call in again. Don't call in next week. Call in, give it some time. But you call in again, I will make you the only honorary return therapy gecko caller. Mainly because I have a lot of fun yelling at you, and I want to know. I want to hear what's going on in your life. Yeah, it makes me. I get a lot of adrenaline and serotonin from yelling at you, so please call in again.

[Alexis]

Okay. Okay, I will. I will.

[Lyle]

All right. Is there anything else you want to say to the people? The computer before we go, Seth?

[Alexis]

I saw this reel where it was an idea for a show where it's nine gay dudes and one straight dude, and they have to vote out the straight guy, and if it remains him, he gets money. But plot twist, they're all straight guys and it's just weeks of ten straight dudes convincing each other who's gay.

[Lyle]

Okay. All right, I'll check that out.

[Alexis]

That would be awesome, wouldn't it? Not. It'd be hilarious.

[Lyle]

All right, I'll talk, I'll talk to you later, Seth.

[Alexis]

Okay.

[Lyle]

All right. Later, man.

[Alexis]

Later.

[Lyle]

Yeah, well, I don't know about it. Yeah, we'll, we'll hear from Seth again. I'm not a big return caller guy, but I, something about, you know what, I, I, it's funny, I was talking to Seth and just now and I was like, yeah, if I had, if I were back into my 18 year old version of myself, I would pro, I would probably have similar amounts of anxiety that he does. But I'm trying to, but that, but if I could go back, but if I could go back with my 27 year old brain, I might do it a little bit differently. And I don't know, isn't that the point of a conversation is you get a different perspective on a thing? I don't know. I also, I just, I really like yelling. Do you own a business that's ready to thrive? It's time to let Intuit QuickBooks take.

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[Lyle]

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[Lyle]

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