332: The Ten Commandments

Summary

Podcast Summary: This American Life

Episode: 332: The Ten Commandments
Release Date: April 20, 2025
Host: Ira Glass
Producer: David Ellis Dickerson
Description: In this Easter weekend special, This American Life delves into the enduring relevance of the Ten Commandments. Through a series of personal stories and insightful interviews, the episode explores how these ancient directives continue to shape modern lives, relationships, and moral dilemmas.

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Introduction to the Ten Commandments

The episode opens with David Ellis Dickerson introducing the theme, explaining the historical significance of the Ten Commandments and their influence across various cultures and religions. Dickerson emphasizes the versatility of the Ten Commandments as a framework for moral guidance, noting, “Ten Commandments are such a perfect way to get across an idea. There's 10 of them. So it's enough that you're getting a comprehensive view” (03:40).

Commandments Relating to God

The First Three Commandments: Acknowledging God

These commandments focus on the relationship between individuals and the divine. Dickerson shares a poignant story from Shalom Alslander, who recounts his upbringing in a strict religious school under Rabbi Breyer. Shalom describes the severe measures taken to enforce the sanctity of God's names, illustrating the deep reverence expected from students:

“Rabbi Breyer slapped my hand, grabbed me by the ear, and led me to the head of the classroom. He held Yastremsky over his head and shook him.” (06:17)

This narrative highlights the intense adherence to religious commandments and the profound impact on personal identity and community relationships.

Commandments Relating to Family and Society

Fourth Commandment: Remember the Sabbath Day

The fourth commandment emphasizes rest and dedication to God. The episode features six different congregations from various cities, each reflecting on how they honor the Sabbath. Through prayers and communal worship, listeners gain insight into the diverse ways communities uphold this commandment:

“Lord, we pray for our sick and shut in everywhere... May the Lord look with kindness upon all efforts to uphold the dignity of marriage and of family life.” (16:13)

Fifth Commandment: Honor Your Father and Your Mother

Jack Hitt shares a nostalgic and touching story about his relationship with his father. At age 11, Jack defaces a backyard wall, leading to a severe reprimand from his father, who emphasizes the family's reputation:

“I've worked all my life to make sure that when you or your sisters or your brother walk down the street, people say, there goes a hit.” (19:42)

Years later, during a family reunion, Jack and his siblings realize that their father's strict moral code significantly shaped their behaviors and family dynamics.

Commandments Relating to Personal Conduct

Sixth Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Kill

Army Reserve Chaplain Lieutenant Colonel Lyn Brown discusses the moral complexities soldiers face in combat, particularly regarding the commandment against killing. Through interviews with soldiers like Alex Bloomberg, the episode explores the internal conflicts between faith and duty:

“We preach, you know, the love of God and the fact that we ought to be at peace with each other. In the same time, I'm wearing a uniform that says US army on it...” (28:40)

Brown reflects on the difficulty of reconciling religious teachings with the realities of war, emphasizing the importance of valuing life and the ethical dilemmas soldiers encounter.

Seventh Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery

David Ellis Dickerson narrates his struggle with lustful thoughts, shaped by his evangelical upbringing. He recounts his battle to adhere to religious doctrines that equate lust with adultery in the heart. The story takes a transformative turn when a Christian counselor suggests embracing temptation rather than resisting it, leading Dickerson to abandon his lifelong struggle:

“He looked at me and frowned and asked if I ever did the act, the one that I found so horrible. Trust me, he said. Let yourself do it.” (35:58)

This candid reflection highlights the psychological toll of strict moral codes and the path to personal liberation.

Eighth Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Steal

Hassan, a waiter at a neighborhood restaurant, shares observations about patrons who steal seemingly trivial items like salt and pepper shakers or umbrellas. His encounters reveal the complexity of human behavior and morality:

“She always took it. I believe that she took at least two dozens during the two years period.” (43:22)

The segment examines the motivations behind petty theft and the fine line between right and wrong in everyday actions.

Ninth Commandment: Do Not Bear False Witness

Sarah Koenig tells the story of Mary Chaya Lipchitz, who faces an ethical dilemma while donating a kidney. To save a stranger's life, Chaya must lie to her mother about her whereabouts and intentions. The narrative explores the tension between truthfulness and altruism:

“Sometimes you have to... You have no choice. And I'm doing this to save another person's life.” (42:35)

Chaya's intricate scheme to conceal her donation underscores the moral complexities inherent in selfless acts.

Tenth Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Covet

The episode concludes with a focus on envy and desire, featuring stories of young individuals grappling with materialism. Amy, Selena, and Kayla, seventh-graders, obsess over possessing the latest gadgets like the Sidekick 3, reflecting the pervasive nature of covetousness:

“I think it's just natural. Like everybody is going to want something at some point.” (57:03)

The segment underscores the challenge of overcoming envy in a consumer-driven society and the psychological impact of constant comparison.

Conclusion and Reflections

In wrapping up the episode, Ira Glass reflects on the universality of the Ten Commandments and their enduring relevance. The stories presented illustrate how these ancient principles continue to influence modern ethical decisions, personal struggles, and societal norms. The episode emphasizes the timeless nature of these commandments, urging listeners to contemplate their application in contemporary life.

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Notable Quotes:

• David Ellis Dickerson on the Ten Commandments' versatility:
  “Ten Commandments are such a perfect way to get across an idea. There's 10 of them. So it's enough that you're getting a comprehensive view.” (03:40)

• Shalom Alslander on Rabbi Breyer's enforcement:
  “Rabbi Breyer slapped my hand, grabbed me by the ear, and led me to the head of the classroom.” (06:17)

• Jack Hitt on moral conflict in the military:
  “We preach... the love of God and the fact that we ought to be at peace with each other... taking lives.” (28:33)

• David Ellis Dickerson on natural desire:
  “I think it's just natural. Like everybody is going to want something at some point.” (57:03)

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Final Thoughts:

This American Life adeptly weaves personal narratives with broader ethical discussions, offering listeners a multifaceted exploration of the Ten Commandments. Through heartfelt stories and thought-provoking interviews, the episode invites reflection on how these age-old principles navigate the complexities of modern existence.

Transcript

[Ira Glass]

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[David Ellis Dickerson]

California Gold Rush, a leafletier out west published the Ten Commandments for gold miners who'd come out to Prospect Commandment Number 4 Commandment 4 in the traditional Ten Commandments tells you to observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Commandment Number four reads like this Thou shalt not remember what thy friends do at home on the Sabbath day, lest the remembrance may not compare favorably with what thou doest hear. For Commandment Number 8 the commandment about stealing in the traditional commandments. Commandment 8 Thou shalt not steal a pick or a shovel or a pan from thy fellow miner, or take away his tools without his leave, nor return them broken, nor remove his stake to enlarge thy claim, nor pan out gold from his riffle box. There's the Ten Commandments of Umpiring, written in 1949 by the Commissioner of Major League Baseball Commission. Commandment Number one Keep your eye on the ball. Four different commandments on this list are basically about not getting mad at the players. There are the 10 commandments of tractor safety. Number one know your tractor, its implements and how they work. The Ten Commandments of Paris dining, assembled by Fotor's Travel Guides, which include Number two Thou shalt not be too familiar with a waiter. Don't expect to hear My name is Gaston and I will be your server tonight. Also number eight Thou shalt not assume that the customer is always right. And number 10 Thou shalt never use the term doggy bag. Let's see, what else the Ten Commandments of Cell Phone Etiquette Number four Thou shalt not wear more than two wireless devices on thy belt. The Ten Commandments of sports betting. The Ten Commandments of protecting your million dollar idea. The Ten Commandments of good historical writing. My favorite Number ten Thou shalt write consistently in the past tense. Interesting to think that you would need that. The Ten Commandments of bilingual blogs. The Ten Commandments of pastors leaving the congregation. Ten Commandments of working in a hostile environment. The Ten Commandments for communication with people with disabilities. This includes a very helpful Number six, don't lean on a person's wheelchair. Or number 10, don't be embarrassed or freak out if you accidentally use a common phrase like see you later with somebody who can't see, or did you hear about that with somebody who can't hear. The Ten Commandments of Being a Math Teacher. These actually reveal a lot about the internal life of being a math teacher. Number one, thou shalt recognize that some students fear and dislike math and be compassionate. And then there's a long list. It's basically different ways to encourage the math teacher to keep patiently explaining over and over in different ways things until your students understand them. And then at the end of that list, there's the rather mournful number 10. Though they may at times seem few, thou shalt count thy blessings. Then, of course, as peaches and herb remind us, there are the ten commandments of love.

[Ira Glass]

Thou shalt never love another. Thou shall never love another. And stand by me all the while.

[Eric Glass]

Stand by, Stand by me all the while.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

I think there are so many different versions of the Ten Commandments because Ten Commandments are such a perfect way to get across an idea. There's 10 of them. So it's enough that you feel like you're getting a comprehensive view. And yet at the same time, it's just 10. Right. 10 manageable, not too overwhelming.

[Ira Glass]

Sure.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

I could do 10. 10, sure. But, you know, the biblical commandments have one important thing, the that all these imitator commandments don't, and that is that they're about much more basic stuff, honoring parents and murder and lying, wanting things. We don't have primal stuff that's in our lives. And we thought, it's Easter weekend, Passover's just ending. Let's find stories where people are grappling with these old primal rules for life. Perfect time to devote an episode to the Ten Commandments, the real ones. And that's what we have today. From WBEZ Chicago, it's this American Life. I'm Eric Glass. Today's show, the Ten Commandments. Stay with us.

[Ira Glass]

This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on thinkorswim. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta.

[Gwynne Brown]

Stone, an expert in language learning for 30 years. Right now, NPR listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership to 25 different languages for 50% off. Learn more at RosettaStone.com NPR.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Just American Life Today's show about the Ten Commandments is a rerun from long ago 2007 that we're bringing back this Easter weekend. Now, different denominations attach different numbering schemes to the Commandments, to which commandment goes with which number, though the commandments are always the same. But however you count them, the first two or three commandments, they cover the same ground. They're all about acknowledging God. I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not carve idols and bow down to them and worship them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. These commandments in particular are ones that Shalom Alslander tried to understand and obey as a boy going to a religious school, a yeshiva, a school where they were drilled in all of the Bible's commandments by teachers who could be pretty intimidating, some more than others. Here's Shalom.

[Shalom Alslander]

Elie said that his big brother said that Rabbi Breyer once broke a student's nose by slapping the student's face. Dov said that his big brother said that Rabbi Breyer had once broken a student's arm when he was dragging the student from the room for talking during prayers. Rabbi Breyer was the scariest rabbi in the whole Y. He was a stocky man, wide as the doorway, with a long, rough beard and thick, angry hands, and everyone trembled that first day of third grade, when he stomped heavily into the classroom, wrote his name on the blackboard, and shouted at Akiba for slouching in his seat. Nobody spoke during class, nobody doodled in the margins of their prayer books. And when at the end of the first test, at the end of the first week, Rabbi Breyer shouted, pencils down. It was as if the commandment had come from God himself. At recess, we stood huddled together on the concrete slab beside the door, afraid to play, worried that Briar was somewhere watching. Avi and Ellie started flipping baseball cards. Flipping cards is considered gambling, which is forbidden, so we were supposed to return the cards to each other at the end of recess. Nobody ever did. Ellie won a large stack of cards from Avi, and I flipped Eli. Next I lost an old Willie Randolph, an afraid Lou Pinella, but I won him in Karl Yastremsky, whom I was pretty sure was Jewish. I'd been trying to win him for the bell rang and everyone headed glumly back to class, where we sat quietly at our desks, waiting for Rabbi Briar to return, I took out my call. Yastremsky turned it over and carefully wrote my name across the back. I didn't want to lose him and didn't plan on flipping him. Name of the Creator. Rabbi Breyer shouted. I jumped and turned to find him standing beside me, his face red, his furious finger pointing at the baseball card on my desk. Name of the Creator. He shouted again. He grabbed the card from my desk. Name of the Creator. I was confused. Yaz. Rabbi Breyer slapped my hand, grabbed me by the ear, and led me to the head of the classroom. He held Yastremsky over his head and shook him. This he, he declared loudly, must never be thrown away. It must never touch the ground. It must never be covered. Then Rabbi Breyer waved the card in my face and told me that my name was the same name as God's, and I must never write it again. The Jewish God has 72 names, and even though I was only 8 years old, I already knew a lot of them. There was Adonai. There was Yahweh, There was Elohim. There was he who was full of mercy, he who was quick to anger the Holy Spirit, the Divine Presence, the Rock, the Savior. And now, somewhere near the bottom of the list, there was Shalom. Peace. My Rabbi Breyer handed me the baseball card and told me to take it to the prayer hall upstairs and immediately put it in the Shemos box. Shemos means names, and it was the place where any old or unusable names of God are left to be discarded. Pages from prayer books, crumbling Talmuds, old Torah scrolls, and from now on, anything I wrote my name on. When the box was filled, the rabbis would take it outside, dig a hole, and bury the pages in the ground. From now on, rabbi Breyer said, when writing my name, I was to replace the last Hebrew letter, the M sound, with a simple apostrophe. I was no longer Shalom. I was Shalo. I headed upstairs with a sigh. Life with God's name was more difficult than I imagined. I was annoyed with God for being so selfish with them all. He had 71 other names. I couldn't see why he'd mind so much if I used just one. I didn't want to tell God how to do his job, but I wondered if maybe there weren't bigger things for him to be worrying about than who was using one of his six dozen names without permission. Isn't this, I wondered, what led to holocausts. The Sheamos box in the Prayer hall filled quickly. My homework, my test papers, my what I did this summer, even my highlights for children. And buried at the bottom of the box, a pair of underpants my mother had written my name on with permanent marker. It seemed I couldn't go an hour without making something holy. And I wasn't the only one. Every morning, my mother wrote my name on my lunch bag, the name of God, in bright red magic marker with a quickly drawn smiley face just below it. And every afternoon, Rabbi Breyer would grab my lunch bag, shout Name of the Creator, dump the food out onto my desk, and send me upstairs to the sheamos box with my suddenly sacred lunch bag. It didn't end with writing. I was standing at the urinal one day when Avi came in. Hey, Shalom. He said. Name of the Creator. Rabbi Breyer shouted from inside the nearby stall. Name of the Creator. We heard him fumbling with his pants and ran back to class. Later, as we sat with our heads down as punishment, Rabbi Breyer explained that speaking God's name in the bathroom was also forbidden. And then, a few weeks later, it suddenly all clicked. I began spelling my name with an apostrophe without even thinking. My mother stopped writing my name on my lunch bag, and my friends stopped saying hello to me in the bathroom. It had been a hassle at the beginning, but now the whole God thing was growing on me. My classmates were named after rabbis and forefathers. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Please. I was named after God. So I was surprised a few days later when I heard Rabbi Breyer, in the middle of an exam on the first chapter of Genesis, shout Name of the Creator. I turned around, expecting to see him standing beside me, but he was on the far side of the classroom, standing behind Shlomo's desk, pointing a furious finger at Shlomo's test paper. Name of the Creator. He shouted again, and he slapped Shlomo's hand, grabbed him by the ear, and dragged him to the front of the class. Shlomo isn't technically a name of God, but it means his, His Shalom, his peace. And for some reason that day, Rabbi Breyer decided that was close enough. But instead of feeling relieved that someone else in our classroom would share the burden of a holy name, I was disappointed. It was a pain in the ass being named God. But it was my pain, and it was my ass. Rabbi Breyer handed Shlomo his test paper and told me to take him upstairs to show him where the sheamos box was. I still didn't quite understand God's reasoning behind the third commandment of Thou shalt not use my name in vain. But I suddenly had a pretty good idea of the reason behind the first. Thou shalt have no other gods besides me. It's one thing to be the only God. It's quite another lesser thing to be one of. I headed upstairs with Shlomo two steps behind me. I wanted to push him down the stairs. I wanted to shove him out the window. As we walked toward the prayer hall, I remembered that Rebbe Briar told us that Moses had killed an Egyptian by uttering the name of God. Shlomo pushed his way in front of me and hurried to the shemos box. Adonai. I whispered nothing. Yahweh. I said nothing. I couldn't bear to watch him violating my shemos box. So I turned and headed back to class, Shlomo running behind me, trying to keep up, using my name in vain and calling, Shalom. Shalom. Wait up. As I squeezed my eyes shut and whispered one last time. Elohim. Nothing.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Sherlom Aslander. His latest book is called A Memoir. This brings us to the fourth commandment. Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Six days will you labor, but the seventh is a day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God.

[Ira Glass]

Good morning, everyone. Good morning. We're glad to have everyone here today.

[Eric Glass]

It is awesome to see you tonight.

[Ira Glass]

Thank you for coming to worship with us.

[Eric Glass]

The ushers are going to come forward now.

[Jack Hitt]

We're going to be reading from the 48th Division of Psalms. Great is the Lord and greatly to.

[Gwynne Brown]

Be praised in the city of.

[Ira Glass]

I also begin with words of blessing at the bottom of page 104. Baruch hata adonai eloheinu mele formati.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Here are six congregations in six different cities remembering the Sabbath and trying to keep it holy. Lord, we pray for our sick and shut in everywhere.

[Ira Glass]

Lord, they're sick among us.

[Gwynne Brown]

Lord Jesus, that need you Lord, we.

[Jack Hitt]

Pray for the homeless on today United now in faith.

[Ira Glass]

We pray. May the Lord look with kindness upon all efforts to uphold the dignity of marriage and of family life. We pray to the Lord.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

We pray especially for the Neely family. We pray for the loss in the Gombisky family and the loss of a cousin.

[Ira Glass]

And here all of us can learn something from an ancient text which seems so irrelevant when someone has, for whatever reason, had to separate themselves from a society.

[Gwynne Brown]

The priest has to get involved and.

[Ira Glass]

Help this person get back into the community.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

People claim nowadays that they are the.

[Ira Glass]

First ones who are asking for the woman's right.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Islam about 15 centuries ago said, O people, you must consider the rights of your wives. Be kind and nice to them.

[Ira Glass]

Fear Allah and your wives and be good to them.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

O Allah, be my witness.

[Gwynne Brown]

Do I have a witness?

[Ira Glass]

We are the bride of Christ. Why? Because Christ died for us.

[Jack Hitt]

He's married to us.

[Gwynne Brown]

And we need to understand what marriage means.

[Ira Glass]

You can't be married and cheating.

[Eric Glass]

And.

[Ira Glass]

Tie far too many of us cheating on Jesus. Nobody comes before Jesus. Turn to our hymnals on page 154.

[Eric Glass]

All hail the power of Jesus name and we'll all stand.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Amen. Amen.

[Eric Glass]

Thank you all for coming, and you're.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

All welcome to stay.

[Ira Glass]

Speak, O Lord, as we come to.

[Gwynne Brown]

You to receive.

[Ira Glass]

Of your holy word.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

This is the Bentry Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, Texas. Before that, the Northwest Venice United Methodist Church in Corona, Michigan. Faith Tabernacle Baptist Church in Chicago. The Muslim Community Association Mosque in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Temple Road of Shalom in Falls Church, Virginia. And Our lady of Angels Monastery in Hanceville, Alabama. We recorded them in 2007 when we first broadcast today's show. If you're just tuning in, we are devoting our show today to the Ten Commandments. And we are at commandment number five right now. Honor your father and your mother. When he was 11 in Charleston, South Carolina, Jack Hitt and his friends back then formed a little club where they would hang out at this one backyard that was all overgrown, which they thought of at the time as a jungle. It had a big brick wall along one side. And they started doing things that did not honor their fathers and their mothers.

[Eric Glass]

Anyway, we had declared it to be our land. We were squatters. And so we started painting things on the wall. And one of us painted a naked woman, and one of us wrote his name. And then loves. And then, you know, the girl he had a thing for at that time. And that's how we got caught, because he wrote his name on the wall. And then I wrote all these. I just wrote every bad word I could think of. And so I came home one day and the police came to my house and told my parents or called my father at work or something. And anyway, he came home early from work, and he sat me down in his big study and said, I understand you painted some words on a wall. And I was like, oh, my God, it's bursting into tears. It was just beyond control. My father never cursed, at least not in front of us. And he was very strict about language. And so he asked me what words I. We painted. I painted on the wall. And I think I choked out H E double hockey sticks or something. And he kind of looked down very grave indeed. Anything else? I was like, yeah, that was just the warm. And so then I said, you know, I painted the other words. I can't say them. I can't say them. And then he said, tell me what it started with. He's going to get it out of me. So I coughed up the letter S. And he was just. His eyes blazed and he bowed his head. Oh, my God. Anything else? And I could not be contained. I was wailing around on the sofa. He said, there's only one word left. And yeah, I painted it. And he was just. I think he was actually thunderstruck. And then he sat there in silence for a few minutes. And then he looked up at me and he said, now, you have to understand, my father comes from the rural area, marries the southern belle in Charleston, South Carolina. So marriage of two kinds of families in the South. And he said, son, I've worked all my life to make sure that when you or your sisters or your brother walk down the street, people say, there goes a hit. They're good people. I don't think anybody. Anything that anybody in this family has done has damaged that reputation as much as you have today. And he said, that is your punishment. You may go now. You know, I was 11.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Wow.

[Eric Glass]

I was just. I was floored. You know, I asked him, I think, to spank me because of course, part of me wanted an explosion that would end it. But he said when he dismissed me from the room, he said, you know, that, you know, this has been your punishment. And then, of course, a couple of months later, he dies. And that's one of my last memories is him telling me that.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Do you think he was being sincere?

[Eric Glass]

Well, I'll tell you. Years later, we had a little family reunion. I might have been 20. I was in college. And all my siblings got together. They were all married at this point. And we dismissed all the in laws to go see the movies. And the five of us stayed up really late talking. And I don't think we'd ever really talked about our father in any deep way since he had died. And I started telling that story, and I had never told that story because I was ashamed of was the black mark on the family, the that I had done this right, and I couldn't bring to. I'd never told anybody that story. And I started telling that story, and all my sisters start wailing with laughter. And then they all start telling the story. What they had done that had prompted essentially the exact same speech. Like, one of them had been caught shoplifting in Atlanta, and he had to fly there and get her. And it was just, you know, a terrible story. I'd never heard that one before either. And I thought, ooh wee. Well, you know, painting a few bad words on a wall, that's nothing compared to shoplifting in Atlanta.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

And was this the first time that everybody else was realizing that he had said the speech to them, too? Or were you the only one who didn't know?

[Eric Glass]

I think I was the only one who didn't know. I mean, they're much older than I am. I'm a mistake, right? So my oldest sister is 16 years older than I am. So I think what was kind of moving about that whole encounter was that is that all of them had long ago forgotten their particular crime that had prompted Daddy to give them the big reputation speech. But, you know, when I brought it up, it suddenly, for all of them, that all flooded back. I mean, it just created this great little moment where we all suddenly realized we were, you know, the whole family was just so defined by my father's rather Baptist sense of morality.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Jacket. Well, the Sixth Commandment seems like it could not be more straightforward. Thou shalt not kill. But of course, even this is one that is not always so simple to know how to obey. Army Reserve Chaplain Lieutenant Colonel Lyn Brown is back in this country from Iraq, where he has served two tours. When he was in Iraq, he would run services for his unit once a week. But most of his ministry was just talking to guys one on one. The main issue they have, he says, is about missing their families. But often they talk to him about killing. He spoke with Alex Bloomberg.

[Jack Hitt]

I did meet with one soldier on several occasions to just work through, you know, the commandment. This young man had actually, along with another soldier, had gone forward when the vehicle in front of them had been blown up to, you know, hold the hand of. Of a soldier who was not going to survive. You know, somebody had told me that, you know, he was having a tough time. And so I went over to him and I just said, you know, you know, what are you thinking? And he said, I never thought about the killing that would be going on. You know, when you're firing at a target, you know, to practice, you think of those things as targets, not as people. And for him to be there and to see that he had some buddies that were on the receiving end, and he's just saying the Ten Commandments in the Bible Says, thou shalt not kill. And he says, I'm not certain I can go out and kill.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

His concern was that God wouldn't forgive him or that it was wrong.

[Jack Hitt]

Well, that God wouldn't approve of him doing that. And he also brought up, you know, just, you know, if he were to do it, you know, who could he tell? Because he said, I wouldn't want to tell my girlfriend about this. I wouldn't want to tell my children. And that's why, you know, I went ahead and had a little Bible study with him. It was, you know, it was the kind of thing that I did meet with him on several occasions to find out, you know, what God had to say about war and, you know, where did the commandment thou shalt not kill? Where did that come in? But also to work through, you know, other instances where, you know, for example, in the New Testament, where Jesus meets an army officer who has a child who's dying, and he asks Jesus if he would heal his daughter. But the interesting thing I would point out is that Jesus never condemned the soldier for his job. Now, I also know that when King David wanted to build the temple, that God said no. He said, your son's going to do it because you're a man of blood. And so there's a lot of controversy, as you can imagine, as to trying to interpret what God was talking about there. And, of course, that seems to reflect on even my role as a chaplain. Why am I wearing an army uniform and trying to deal with people who are out to kill people?

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Are there times that you feel like that faith and the US Military are sort of at odds?

[Jack Hitt]

Yes. You know, we preach, you know, the love of God and the fact that we ought to be at peace with each other. In the same time, I'm wearing a uniform that says US army on it, and, you know, I'm there to support them in their mission of, you know, winning a war. And that means taking lives. So I do wrestle with that. I mean, there's times that you just kind of go, you know, God, can I resign here? Right. You know, can I get away from this? Rather than having to deal with the questioning that people have and often not having answers. I mean, I think that's probably the biggest challenge that I ever had was, you know, I couldn't just say, just think this way and you'll be fine. There were times that they were asking the same questions that I would be asking, such as, well, you know, should we be here? Should we be killing people?

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Do you think that you have a different understanding of this particular commandment, about the fifth commandment, thou shalt not kill. Do you feel like you have a different understanding of it after serving in Iraq than perhaps somebody who didn't serve?

[Jack Hitt]

I think I'm much more hesitant about having a definite opinion about who should die. Just seeing the brutality and the, you know, people's. People have got body parts missing or, I mean, there's big holes. There's, you know, they died a violent death and it's not pretty and it just doesn't seem normal, you know, which it isn't. But also, even with the Iraqi culture that there were times that people just said, well, you know, whatever group it was, they didn't agree with. They just said, you know, kill them all. You know, And I was going, you know, these are people, you know, and I didn't like that attitude. And then I was seeing it, even among, you know, the armed forces, that there was people that just would just kind of say, well, we just need to kill them all, and then that'll take care of it. And I was going, whoa, you know, who nominated you to be God? You know. You know, I just. We all have a tendency to interpret the Ten Commandments in a way that's convenient for us. You know, there's interpretation of thou shall not murder. It shouldn't be a premeditated killing. It has nothing to do with war, you know, those kinds of things. But it just makes me, you know, I'm looking at it as a principle that God says you need to value life and don't take it lightly. You know, just don't condemn people to death just because, you know, that's easy to do. You got to stop and think about it. Seriously. This is something that God himself doesn't take lightly.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Army Reserve Chaplain Lieutenant Colonel Gwynne Brown talking with Alex Bloomberg back in 2007. Brown died in 2008. Coming up, adultery, thievery, lying, envy. No, it is not an afternoon of daytime tv. It is the last four Commandments. We have one story for each of them. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

[Ira Glass]

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[Gwynne Brown]

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[Ira Glass]

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[Ira Glass]

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[Gwynne Brown]

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[Ira Glass]

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[David Ellis Dickerson]

This is American Life. I'm Ira Glass. Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme. Today's show for Easter weekend, the Ten Commandments. We're doing one story for each of the commandments. First few commandments, of course, about how to relate to God. Then there's one on relating to your parents. And the rest are all direct injunctions about how to act. Basically, a list of things that you are not supposed to do. We are at Commandment Number 7. You shall not commit adultery. And yes, we are at the commandment that is about sex. And while there is going to be nothing explicit in this next story, it does acknowledge the existence of sex. Little warning there. In 1976, in an interview with Playboy magazine, then presidential candidate Jimmy Carter admitted kind of famously that he had committed adultery in his heart many times, meaning, of course, that he had had lustful thoughts. There's this thing that Jesus says in the book of Matthew, whoever looks at a woman lustfully has committed adultery in his heart. David Ellis Dickerson grew up going to an evangelical church in Tucson, Arizona, and he remembers hearing about what Carter said about committing adultery in his heart.

[Gwynne Brown]

I was 8 years old and I knew just what he was talking about. He was just saying the same thing. I had read in my Bible dozens of times. As an evangelical Christian, I wanted desperately to please God. So for my entire adolescence and up into my 20s, I literally tried to avoid having lustful thoughts. I was taught this was possible. Paul says in 2 Corinthians that we take every thought captive in the name of Jesus, which means that any spiritually healthy person ought to be able to control every thought in his head. Of course, in practice, this is even harder than it sounds. So for young evangelicals like me, there's a whole sub industry of sex advice columns and books with titles like Every Man's Struggle or Taking Thoughts Captive. You can find them in the four men section of any Christian bookstore. The first thing they always tell you is that sex is a beautiful gift from God. Even though it's a gift, they don't want you to touch or even think about because you're just going to ruin it with your filthy paws. Any physical pleasure, even pleasure you'd give yourself while alone, is completely forbidden. Then they tell you how to survive until marriage. They all run some variation on you can't help the first glance, but you can prevent the second.

[Shalom Alslander]

You can obey God with your eyes.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

They don't have to see everything around them. If an attractive girl walks by, they.

[Ira Glass]

Don'T have to survey her body, but.

[Shalom Alslander]

They must obey Jesus Christ.

[Gwynne Brown]

This is Josh Harris in the audio version of his book not even a Guarding your heart against lust. It's full of practical tips.

[Shalom Alslander]

I don't know about your house, but at our home all kinds of sensuous and provocative clothing catalogs arrive in the mail uninvited. I've come to realize that I have.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

To view even getting my mail as a battleground. Will I throw them away immediately or.

[Shalom Alslander]

Steal glances and flip through them for a quick thrill? If you're a guy with a similar.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Struggle, ask your wife or mother to help you in this area by ridding your home of these unnecessary temptations.

[Gwynne Brown]

Other Tips these books tell you to watch TV with a remote in your hand, so if a sexy beer commercial comes on or when the sports camera cuts to the cheerleaders, you can immediately jump to another channel and be honest with yourself. When you watch ESPN2, aren't you hoping to see gymnastics? And guys need daily quiet time to read the Bible and pray for strength in the fight against temptation. I don't know why, but in my case, none of this ever worked. I wanted it to work, longed for it desperately, but every week or so, late at night, I'd give in. M happened again. I would write in my journal as if it weren't an action but an event, something that could just engulf you like a flash flood or a car accident, something so terrible it could only be referred to in code. I was an adulterer. That's what the Bible told me, and I struggled with the guilt of that every day. After high school, I went to a huge state college in Tucson, and on warm days I would walk across campus feeling like a monster because I believed that noticing a girl's body was the spiritual equivalent of something like sexual assault. I assumed all this was the same for all of us fundamentalist kids. At every all guys prayer meeting I ever went to, someone was always asking for help with their thought life, but I'd never actually asked if anyone had quite the same problems I did. So I Called my friend Derek, a missionary's kid who was my best friend from church back then.

[Ira Glass]

You're right. It wasn't your own obsession at all. I developed a technique of seeing girls as just floating heads. You know, it's like, just learn. You're just not. Not gonna look below the neck, you know, because it's like there's only bad news there. Yeah, it did have this funny effect on. I mean, I was a cartoonist for my college newspaper, and I didn't actually know how to draw girls, really. I mean, you can see. You can see when I would draw a female figure top to bottom in the cartoon, there's an awkwardness to it because I didn't actually know what they looked like. And those kind of things were kind of. It's funny to look back and talk about them now, but it was all very dead serious back then.

[Gwynne Brown]

Oh, yeah, that's the other thing. It seems so trivial and silly, and yet it caused actual agony. We felt depraved.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah. And there's this terrible. A real anger, a sense of unfairness at the media. Like, you know, Coors Light put up these billboards with women in swimsuits on them, and they were very well designed swimsuits. And there they would be, right. Like, right up in the sky, you know, and so you just felt like the devil was just absolutely this very wily opponent. And it's just in your face all the time, you know? And it's so frustrating if you're trying not to go out of your way to look for it, but then it seems like everybody's pushing it in your face.

[Gwynne Brown]

Do you ever wish you could go back?

[Ira Glass]

Yeah.

[Gwynne Brown]

Okay.

[Ira Glass]

You know, it's funny you should ask that, because I have actually had that imaginary conversation before. You know, you see some time travel movie. Vanna says, like, wow, if I had a chance to go back, you know, what would I tell that kid? And I think I would tell myself, you know what? You spend so much time straining over this one issue that you are avoiding or overlooking the whole rest of your spiritual journey. I wasted a lot of time. There was a lot of time wasted obsessing. And I think that's kind of what you found out yourself, too, right? It gets to a point where things crack instead of bending.

[Gwynne Brown]

He's right. They do crack. And for me, they cracked worse than for Derek. I couldn't buy porn that was obviously forbidden. I didn't have a girlfriend. I couldn't even watch mtv. So the only sexual experiences I'd had were the ones that Happened by accident. A woman bending over in a low cut shirt, for instance. And then at 22, I started finding myself walking slowly along campus or in supermarkets, at a library, hoping to see another accidental glimpse of something. It took more and more of my time. My grades started to suffer. I was like a stalker, but a shy one with incredibly low standards. Then, after a couple unbearable months of this, I begged my pastor for help. He suggested Sex Addicts Anonymous. At my first meeting, we all told our stories. There was a guy who'd spent thousands of dollars on prostitutes in a single long weekend. There was a woman who'd slept with a different guy almost every night for years. There was a huge tattooed biker who was so ashamed to be there that a friend let him in blindfolded. And then there was me, a 22 year old virgin. When I told my story, there was an awkward silence. Even here, nobody understood my problem. A few days later, I went to a Christian counselor, expecting he'd just tell me to pray harder and look for answers in the scripture. I explained my problem. He looked at me and frowned and asked if I ever did the act, the one that I found so horrible. I only referred to it in code. Trust me, he said. Let yourself do it. Give yourself permission and see what happens. This was shocking that a Christian would give me this kind of advice. That it's possible to obey too much. That you could lead yourself astray by following the Bible's rules. That very day, I took home my first Playboy magazine. And that was that. After five minutes, I was no longer desperate to glimpse random women bending over the freezer cases at the grocery store. It felt like a miracle. It was so fast, so life changing, that it was like converting all over again.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

David Ellis Dickerson. He has a substack cut slightly more pleasant. Commandment number eight.

[Ira Glass]

This is your sprite. There's a cook for you.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

You shall not steal.

[Ira Glass]

When it's order, you need more time. What can I do for you? I work as a waiter. I've been here since 1995. It's almost 13 years working in this place.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Hassan works the afternoon shift at a neighborhood restaurant.

[Ira Glass]

Well, people usually, they steal a lot of things. They sell different stuff. For example, they steal umbrellas from other customers.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Really?

[Ira Glass]

Oh yeah. I said with my eye. The guy was lawyer. He stole. He had a broken umbrella in the umbrella box. There was a good umbrella he took away.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Do you think he might have been mistake?

[Ira Glass]

I don't think so. Lawyers, they don't make mistake. Yeah. There was two couples. One of the Couple's wife, she used to sit on the. On the right side of the corner.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

She sit in this booth?

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, this booth. And she used to take salt and pepper from tables. No matter what we did, no matter what we said, no matter what we act, she never changed it. She always took it. I believe that she took at least two dozens during the two years period.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Two dozen?

[Ira Glass]

Yes.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

They sold two dozen salt and pepper shakers.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, totally. I mean, during the. During the two years period. Like at one second I miss one second I missed. Gone.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

And she was a regular customer?

[Ira Glass]

Oh, yeah, regular customer. And I believe she was doing everywhere, wherever she goes.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Well, what I don't understand is what will she do with two dozen salt and pepper sugars?

[Ira Glass]

I don't know. I don't know. That's.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

I want to know, too.

[Ira Glass]

Do you think maybe she has a store?

[David Ellis Dickerson]

He says it doesn't happen often in stealing, but there is a pattern. He's noticed when a woman walked over to a display and took some food and then sat down and ate the food, and he tried to charge her. She argued with him. When a man tried to take a huge stack of napkins, like this huge stack, and Hassan caught him, he didn't even seem embarrassed.

[Ira Glass]

He got mad.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

He got mad at me because I.

[Ira Glass]

Said, you are not allowed to take it.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Now, the people who steal, are they good tippers or bad? Like the woman with the salt and pepper shaker, would they tip?

[Ira Glass]

They were good tippers.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

And the lawyer with the umbrella, good tipper or bad?

[Ira Glass]

No way. No way. A lawyer, he could eat. That's why he has two houses.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Which brings us to the ninth commandment. This hour is going so fast. Ninth commandment. Do not bear false witness. Don't lie. To understand this next story, you have to understand this idea of a mitzvah. For religious Jews, a mitzvah is a good deed. They're supposed to fill their days doing these good deeds. But mitzvah is also the Hebrew word for commandment. And when religious Jews count the commandments in the Bible, they don't just have the Big Ten. They count specifically 613 commandments. They're supposed to follow. Well, the woman in this next story wanted to do one of the biggest mitzvot ever. She was going to save somebody's life, a stranger's life. But to do this, she was going to have to break another one of the commandments, the one about lying. In this case, she was going to be lying to her own mother. Sarah Koenig tells Mary Chaya Lipchitz does.

[Ira Glass]

All her mother's shopping. She prepares all her meals for her, does all her cooking. And they're extremely close best friends, Chaya says, and she means it. And they also live in this tiny space together, a two room basement apartment in Borough park in Brooklyn, where they share a tiny bedroom and sleep in two tiny beds, really cots that are about a foot apart from each other. In this kind of setup, it's unimaginable that you could keep anything from your mother. But Chaya had this whopper of a secret. She wanted to donate a kidney to someone, to a stranger, after seeing an ad in a Jewish newspaper taken out by somebody who needed one. The ad was like screaming out to me. It said, save a life, be Mikayim, which means to fulfill a once in a lifetime mitzvah. It would be an uber mitzvah. And she was going to do it unless her mother found out first. Her mother has a kind of phobia about surgery. And also, like any parent, she would worry about all the things that could go wrong. So Haya didn't tell her mother about her plan, which took many, many months to put together. And she got away with it until her mother found some ads about kidney donation that Chaya accidentally left on the kitchen table. She lectured Chaya about it. It's not for you. I think she said to me, like, you can do any other mitzvah except this one. She just like, didn't answer her. Well, but I mean, how old were you at this point? No, I mean, though this was, this was only. Yeah, I mean, right. I'm an adult, you know, I'm a grown up. Forbid you to do anything, really, you know what? But you know what? I didn't want to cause her any pain or any suffering. Don't forget, she's an older lady. And you know, people sometimes are fighting and have heart attacks and die. And I wanted to give a life. I didn't want to take away a life at the same time. But even if she didn't have a heart attack, it would give her so much suffering. And I didn't want to. I never, ever liked to upset her. Haya tried to follow the commandment about not lying. For her, lying's a sin, never mind lying to your own mother. She could argue that not saying anything about the kidney transplant wasn't strictly lying. But as the surgery date got closer, Chaya couldn't cling to that technicality. She was getting a lot of phone calls. She had to go for medical tests all the time. When you would go out and get tests and do these things. Where would you tell her you were going? Well, I did. I had to say other things. You're dragging it out of me. Okay, okay. You know what? I did have to give little white lies. And what were the white lies? Like, what kinds of things would you say? Um, I. I don't even want to go into details. I'm like embarrassed. It wasn't, it wasn't bad. I mean, I don't tell anything about the bad. You know, like, you know, Haya feels so guilty that she lied to her mother, she can barely talk about it. And the lies just became more overt as the day of the surgery arrived. I had to spend the night before at near the hospital. What did you tell her? Oh, gosh, I told her I was going to go to a friend's house. It was a house and my friend was there. My kidney, the person that was named Kitty Toast, she was like a friend already. So. Oh gosh, it was. I had this huge bag, you know, to bring with me to the hospital because like, I didn't want to see how much I was taking when my mother went to the bathroom that night before I left the house, I took my stuff, I think out to the side of the house and left it there. And then I went back in the house. So this way, you know, I just. I went, I went. I didn't leave with that much. Maybe a shopping bag to go. Oh, gosh. But you know what? That was hard for me because I don't like to lie. But that, you know, it was all to do a good thing. It wasn't anything selfish. You know what I mean? It was all. You know, sometimes you're. Listen, I don't want people to think you're allowed to do white lies, but sometimes you have to. Sometimes you have to. You have no choice. And I'm doing this to save another person's life. I mean, so I'm sure you know, as a result of what I did, God's going to forgive me for all those white lies. It's one thing to plan to donate your kidney and not tell your mother. It's another thing to actually have your organ removed and not tell your mother. So Haya had to figure out some way to break it to her once it was a done deal. And her scheme for doing this is so complicated, it makes all the earlier lives look really junior varsity. What happened is that by chance, the same week of her surgery, somebody told haya about this 23 year old Hasidic woman who had also donated a kidney to a stranger. And I met this very lovely young woman, Faggie. I said to her, would you be willing to tell my mother to come over to my mother's house after the surgery and tell her that she donated a kidney? And then tell her, by the way, I donated a kidney, and I'm in the hospital right now. Let her be the one to tell her, because my mother will see that she's healthy. She looks healthy and she's young, and she doesn't look like she had major surgery a few months earlier. And so I told her, call my mother and tell her this way that you have tzedakah charity to give to one of my mother's charities. And that was a good way to get into the house. And I arranged it that my kidney recipient's family is going to call her after Feige after the surgery. So she called my mother, and my mother was like, almost out the door, and she says, no, please, please wait. I have sedakah to give the charity to give to one of your charities. And of course, my mother waited. And so she sat down with her and she said, she donated a kidney. And my mother looked at her and found out and said, normal nelfie. And she just did something like a three months earlier, and she came with a cute little baby. And then she said to her, by the way, your daughter's advice right now in the hospital. And she did the same thing. To everyone's relief, Haya's mother did not have a heart attack. My mother smiled and she said, it's Mina Shemayim. It's from heaven. It's heaven. You know, it's heavenly thing that was meant to be. And she took it very, very well, just like I thought it was. Like, it was just exactly according to my script, the way everything worked out. And she was. She was happy. She was happy. You know, it was like I was like, so happy. It was like, all over. Like, you know, that she took it well and she was proud of me, and it was, like, such a relief. It sounds like dealing with your mother was so much harder than actually donating. Exactly. Donated kidney was not. Was easy. Easy. For me, the hottest part was not telling my mother. Haya's mother never said anything to her about the white lies. And Haya's still not sure she even knows about them. And she never chastised Haya for keeping the surgery from her. She's just proud of Haya, which is what Haya wanted all along. Last month, Haya's brother, inspired by her, donated his kidney to a stranger. He said his mother had no problem with it at all.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Sarah Koenig, she's the host of Cereal. She did this straight back when she was a producer for our show. Since we first broadcast this story, Chaya's mom has died. Over the years, Chaya has facilitated dozens of kidney transplants. So many, she says, that she stopped counting. You can learn more about our kidney matchmaking [e-mail] and so we arrive at the end of our list, the end of God's to do list for humanity. Commandment number 10.

[Ira Glass]

Like iPods. Everybody wants ipods, ipods, ipods. It's really important.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass.

[Ira Glass]

You want phones, you want ipods, you want shoes, you want clothes. And it's a lot of things that's really important.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

You shouldn't covet anything that is thy neighbors.

[Ira Glass]

So it's kind of hard for a lot of people to fit in because they want that same stuff.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Amy and her friends Selena and Kayla are in seventh grade, or they were back when we first broadcast this episode in 2007. That was a month before the first iPhone was released. So during the lunch break, they explained that the latest thing that they all coveted was a Sidekick 3, which, if you don't remember and I did not, it's a kind of souped up BlackBerry. They wanted Sidekick 3 so bad, they could not help but notice every single person who had one.

[Ira Glass]

Well, she's not in my class, but her name is Arlene. My friend Amanda has a sidekick. My cousin has a sidekick. Arlene has a sidekick. Yeah, Christine has a sidekick. Who else got a sidekick? This girl in the train got a sidekick. I think I saw a sidekick. Yeah, almost all my family got a sidekick. I want a sidekick. I don't have a sidekick. I lost my phone, actually. But I want a sidekick. But I don't got it yet. See? Yeah, she has one. She. Yeah, she has one.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

You have a sidekick. Can we see this girl? Christine pulls out her sidekick and shows it around. The photo on the sidekick's little display is herself, which definitely is one of those things that is normal when a kid does it, but would be so weird in an adult child. She hasn't had the psychic for very long.

[Ira Glass]

I don't really remember. I think it was in the beginning of April.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Oh, so just a Couple weeks ago.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, it's really, it's cool actually, because I get to go on the Internet and I get to go on aol, text message, text message, all that. It's really good. It's like an extra computer, a little computer for myself to carry around. A portable everything. A portable everything, basically.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

And did you want one for a long time?

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, actually did. Now.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Were there people who didn't talk to you before the sidekick? Who, when you got the sidekick?

[Ira Glass]

Really? Yeah, there was a lot of people that didn't talk to me. And now that I have my sidekick, they like every day want to use it.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

So they just want to use the sidekick? They don't want to actually.

[Ira Glass]

Yeah, they just want the sidekick. They don't want me, but the sidekick.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

These girls actually had a very grown up attitude about all the stuff they covet. That stuff matters to them, but it doesn't totally matter. Kago wasn't wearing Nikes or Cons and nobody cared. Selena and Amy recently got ipods and they're the first to admit it didn't change how anybody saw them. I remind them that it's in the Bible that we're not supposed to want stuff or be jealous of people who have stuff we don't have. Do you think it's realistic that people aren't going to want stuff?

[Ira Glass]

No, because everybody wants stuff at some point. I think it's just natural. Like everybody is going to want something in life. You know, you're not gonna go through life not wanting anything. You're not gonna just go through life. Okay, I have this and I have that. I don't need anything else or I don't want this. I think it's just natural for people to want things.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

But then you're saying in a way it's natural that we're always gonna be breaking one of the Ten commandments.

[Ira Glass]

Basically, yeah.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

If we need any proof of this, we're always gonna want stuff. Sometimes we're gonna want stuff that we probably should. It was just a few feet away. A girl named Nadie had written on her arm, down the length of her arm, Natie N David. That's N letter N with a heart underneath it.

[Ira Glass]

That's my boyfriend.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

And is he in your grade?

[Ira Glass]

Nah, he's older than me. He's two years older than me. Talk about him.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

That's a girlfriend egging her on.

[Ira Glass]

He's nice, you know, I broke up with him once, but we're going back out and he broke her heart, but I don't think she should be going out with him because she's messed up. I'm mad at her because people were saying that he talked about me. Yeah, it's true. It's huge. But I love him, so. You don't know what love is, lady. That's until you get to 16. Look, that David over there. That David over there. Look, that's right. He's with another girl. With the one in black, sort of.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Walking arm in arm with another girl.

[Ira Glass]

Okay, right there. That's it. Right there. See, that's what makes us be mad. Oh, my God. Right there. You don't say anything. I know that's not SM.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Catechism of the Catholic Church says the 10th Commandment concerns the intentions of the heart. The catechism talks about desires that are often good, wholesome desires, but come to exceed the limits of reason and make us want things too much, especially things that really belong to somebody else. Wanting things too much, it says, is a form of sadness. And the tenth Commandment, that's what it's trying to eradicate.

[Ira Glass]

Thou should always have faith in me, and thou shalt always have faith in me.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Well, our program was produced today by Jane Marie and myself with Alex Bloomberg, Sarah Koenig, Lisa Pollack, Alyssa Shipp and Nancy Opdyke. Senior producer for today's show, Julie Snyder Production help from Seth Lynn, Tommy Andres and Emily Youssef. Help on today's rerun from Angelo Gervasi, Stone Nelson, Ryan Rummery music help today from Jessica Hopper. Mary Robertson produced our story about the ninth Commandment. Thanks today to Liebman's Deli in the Bronx where we taped the story for the 8th Commandment about stealing. Thanks to Middle School 51 in Brooklyn where we taped our 10th Commandment story and especially to one of the 7th grade teachers who worked there back when we did this show, Andrew Raven. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Our website, this AmericanLife.org thanks as always to our program's co founder, Mr. Tory Malatea. You know, he says that when he goes home, he sees the mailings from our own public radio station that arrive at his house, pile up in his front hallway asking for money, and he cannot help himself. He just has to pledge.

[Shalom Alslander]

If you're a guy with a similar.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

Struggle, ask your wife or mother to help you in this area by ridding your home of these unnecessary temptations. I'm Ira Glass. Back next week with more stories of this America Life. Next week on the podcast of this American Life, Mari's fiance Mikhail has a lot of tattoos. Mario likes to make fun of them, like the one he has of Mickey.

[Ira Glass]

Mouse smoking a blunt.

[David Ellis Dickerson]

And then somebody sends her a video and she recognizes Mikael by one of his tattoos. And he's in a prison in El Salvador. This next week on the podcast on your local public radio station.

[Ira Glass]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Cunard sailing to destinations worldwide on Queen Mary 2, Queen Victoria, Queen Elizabeth and Queen Anne. Each voyage offers wellness and relaxation, culinary indulgence and unique Enrichment. [e-mail].