890: Maximal Americanness

Summary

This American Life, Episode 890: "Maximal Americanness" (July 5, 2026)

Summary by Sections with Quotes and Timestamps

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Overview

"Maximal Americanness" is This American Life’s semiquincentennial (250th anniversary) episode exploring stories that embody what feels most distinctly American. The show weaves together tales from sports, language, pop culture, and public lands, to examine—joyously and critically—what makes the country unique, contradictory, and, above all, human. The tone is witty, thoughtful, and sometimes achingly personal. With its trademark blend of humor and emotional truth, this episode feels both a love letter to and a gentle ribbing of American exceptionalism.

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Act 1: Baseball’s “Robot Umpires”—The Joy of Screaming at Authority

(00:27–11:15)

Key Discussion Points

• Pablo Torres’ Obsession with Robot Umpires:
  • Sports personality Pablo Torres describes his years-long campaign to replace human umpires with robots, arguing it would end unwinnable debates about “blown calls.” (00:36)
  • “I was a gas bag on ESPN... I had this take from the very beginning... robots can solve this.” – Pablo Torres (00:36)
• The Disappointing Reality:
  • When robot umps were introduced in minor league games, Torres realized the absence of a human target for criticism took away a key experience for fans: the cathartic ritual of yelling at the ump. (02:36)
  • “It wasn’t as good... so much of what going to a baseball game is like is sitting in the stands, and effectively using the airspace around you as this sort of pillow you can scream into.” – Pablo Torres (02:36)
• ABS Challenge System in the Majors:
  • MLB introduces a challenge system: human umpires call the game, but players can challenge, and video instantly shows whether the call was correct, maintaining both accuracy and a human to blame/cheer/boo. (04:23–05:57)
• Fans’ Love of the Drama:
  • Multiple botched calls are overturned in a single game, leading to raucous, delighted fan reactions. (06:55–07:28)
  • “The loudest cheers of the game... just like, you almost begin to feel bad for CB Buckner, the umpire. Almost.” – Pablo Torres (07:10)
• Why It’s So American:
  • The solution preserves both a yearning for justice (getting calls right) and the American love of loudly challenging authority. (08:21–10:15)
  • “There are few scenarios in American life—or anywhere—that I can imagine where you’re empowered, you’re legally, contractually allowed to go fucking nuts on the authority figure. Imagine doing that to a judge.” – Pablo Torres (08:21)

Notable Quotes

• “A fan friendly engagement moment is booing the shit out of umpires. That’s what fan friendly engagement means. It means let’s give the Coliseum some blood.” – Pablo Torres (09:03)
• “America, if you’re really cutting to the core of us, we want to be mad. As much as we want justice, we want to be able to express what’s inside of us that feels like it’s trapped there as much as we want to see each getting their own fair due.” – Pablo Torres (09:41)

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Act 2: The Most American Question

(13:24–18:43)

Key Discussion Points

• "Are You Okay?"—A Chinese Immigrant’s Encounter:
  • Jai Young Fan recounts arriving in the U.S. as a child and being asked “Are you okay?” by a police officer during a moment of family crisis—how the phrase is both empty ritual and sometimes a genuine opening for empathy. (13:24–14:49)
  • “Are you okay?”—the question both a reflex and a potential “door held open” for vulnerability.
• Cultural Differences & Rituals:
  • Contrasts the American script (“Fine, thank you”) with deeper, rarely verbalized struggles, especially for immigrants. (14:49–16:46)
• Evolution of Understanding:
  • Reflects on her mother’s breaking of the script, and how as an adult she sees that moment as profound, not embarrassing. (16:46–18:43)

Notable Quotes

• “Those are the most common questions in America. I don’t like them... so pointless that it is even a waste of words to me.” – Jai Young Fan’s journal, age 12 (15:08)
• “It becomes a pause, a door held open.” – Jai Young Fan (18:41)

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Act 3: Climbing Sleeping Bear Dunes—Rule-Breaking on Public Lands

(19:18–27:27)

Key Discussion Points

• America’s Resistance to Rules:
  • At Sleeping Bear Dunes, visitors are gently discouraged but not forbidden from descending a hazardous sand dune—the “optional, but not advised” approach being American to its core. (19:18–19:49)
• The Allure of the Forbidden:
  • Strict warnings (like threat of a $3k rescue fee) act as a challenge, spurring more people to attempt the climb. (19:49–20:57)
• Personal Encounters:
  • Interviews with visitors who disregard warnings; the grueling climb is a badge of honor and a test of exceptionalism. (21:08–25:02)
• The Metaphor of American Exceptionalism:
  • Despite facts and warnings, people believe rules are for others—not for them. (24:17–24:56)
  • “When we hear that most people can’t do something, we are trained to think ‘well, I’m not most people,’” – Aviv Der Kornfeld (24:19)
• Kids vs. Adults:
  • Kids, with literal and figurative lightness, scamper up easily, while adults struggle—mirroring generational divides about risk and rules. (25:30–26:26)

Memorable Moments

• Guy muttering, “I should have listened to my wife...”
• A five-year-old beating his family up the dune.

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Act 4: Survivor’s “Race War” Season—Segregation and Reality TV

(29:27–37:11)

Key Discussion Points

• Survivor Season 13—Dividing Teams by Race:
  • Known among fans as “the race war season,” the show split contestants into tribes by race, a response to criticisms about lack of diversity. (30:12–31:15)
  • “You have to respect them for kind of doubling down.” – Eric Glass (31:25)
• Contestants’ and Audience Reactions:
  • The division provokes confusion, discomfort, and self-reflection among contestants and viewers. (31:30–33:16)
  • “Is that race or is that me?” – Emmanuel Berry (33:16)
• Race and Strategy:
  • After a “mutiny” twist, two white players switch teams, leading to a racially charged dynamic as a POC coalition (“i24”) comes from behind and ultimately wins. (33:59–36:09)
• American Reluctance and Inevitability of Talking About Race:
  • The show forces contestants—and America—to publicly confront issues of identity and justice that are usually left unsaid. (36:27–37:11)
  • “In general, in this country, we don’t want to talk about race... And then we are forced into these situations where we have no choice. It’s come up again.” – Emmanuel Berry (36:27)

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Act 5: The Blue Back Speller—Forging American Literacy

(37:11–45:15)

Key Discussion Points

• Noah Webster and the Birth of American English:
  • To create a distinctly American curriculum, Webster publishes the Blue Back Speller—teaching standardized spelling and reading with “American” rules. (37:47–39:40)
• Accessibility and Subversion:
  • Originally aimed at white children, the book becomes instrumental in clandestine Black literacy, treasured by enslaved people even at great risk. (41:26–42:31)
• Cultural Legacy:
  • Fundamental to literacy for generations (second only to the Bible in sales), its endurance comes not from its pedagogy but from how people appropriated it—especially those the system never intended. (44:56)

Notable Quotes

• “The blue back speller wasn’t what it was because of the genius of Noah Webster, it became what it became because of the people who read it, who made something of it.” – Roman Mars (44:56)

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Act 6: "Jose Can You See?"—Improvising the National Anthem

(46:09–54:28)

Key Discussion Points

• Anthem as American Performance:
  • In America, almost uniquely, singers add their own flourishes to the national anthem, especially the final phrase—rooted in music history and cultural traditions of improvisation (jazz, blues, gospel). (46:09)
• Cultural Origins:
  • The Star-Spangled Banner’s melody, chosen for its “show-off” qualities, and a Black musical tradition of improvisation, encourage these embellishments. (49:10–51:20)
  • “This is very different from other national anthems, which are often marches or hymns. The tune Scott Key picked… was basically the equivalent of one of those songs you use at a talent show to show your incredible range and voice.” – Emmanuel Joci (49:12)
• Key Performances:
  • Jose Feliciano (1968 World Series) reimagines the anthem, Jimi Hendrix at Woodstock, Marvin Gaye at the NBA All-Star Game, then Whitney Houston at the Super Bowl (1991), whose version becomes canon. (49:54–53:02)
• The Ultimate Maximalist Rendition:
  • Sandi Patty’s version for the Statue of Liberty’s 100th birthday (1986): nearly six minutes, “the greatest example of key changes,” epitomizing the maximalist, over-the-top, and yet celebratory American approach. (53:54–54:28)
  • “It is totally ridiculous and yet kind of incredible.” – Emmanuel Joci (53:58)

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Conclusion

"Maximal Americanness" celebrates the paradoxical, exuberant, endlessly inventive, and sometimes confounding traits that define the national character: a yearning for both individual expression and collective ritual, a taste for breaking rules even as we set them, a drive for justice that never quite tampers a need for release, and a stubborn refusal to leave any tradition unremixed—not even the national anthem. With lively stories, memorable voices, and plenty of honest affection, the episode is a time capsule of what it means to be American at 250.

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Quick Reference: Segment Timestamps

• [00:27] Act 1: Robot Umpires/Baseball
• [13:24] Act 2: “Are You Okay?”—Immigration and Language
• [19:18] Act 3: Sleeping Bear Dunes—Rules and Rebellion
• [29:47] Act 4: Survivor & Race in Reality TV
• [37:11] Act 5: The Blue Back Speller
• [46:09] Act 6: National Anthem and Improvisation

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This summary remains true to the stories and voices heard in the episode—wry, thoughtful, often funny, sometimes bittersweet, and always searching for what makes American life strange and beautiful.

Transcript

[Ira Glass]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Raymond James, a firm where wealth management, banking and capital markets solutions start with the connections between people. That's the power of personal disclosures. @raymondjames.com A quick warning.

[Producer/Announcer]

There are curse words that are unbeeped in today's episode of the show. If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, this AmericanLife.org when he's in his 20s.

[Eric Glass]

It was years ago Pablo Torres started appearing on TV talking about sports, talking about something that now he's kind of embarrassed about.

[Pablo Torres]

I was a gas bag on espn. Various people did not like me. I think I just sort of represented this new young person who is vaguely Asian, but also Mexican. I'm Filipino. That answers that mystery. But I had this take from the very beginning of my time on TV back in 2012, which was, we debate inspiration all of the time. How much did the refs blow this? What should the call have been? Who's the hero? Who's the villain? What's right and what's wrong? And I had been arguing forever that robots can solve this. Like, we have the technology if you replace the referee or the umpire with a robot. We don't need to waste our time arguing about this dumb shit.

[Eric Glass]

And so that became your stance.

[Pablo Torres]

It became a thing I was known for, was calling for this robot referee revolution. Like, the guy won't shut about these robots.

[Eric Glass]

He winces now when he thinks about it.

[Pablo Torres]

Anyhow, years go on. And then finally, in 2021, I see this story break that at long last, the most traditional sport in all of America, Major League Baseball, is experimenting with robot umpires. In the minor leagues,

[Eric Glass]

minor league teams installed what they called the ABS system, the Automated Ball Strike System, These Hawkeye cameras with optical tracking. They looked out over home plate and saw perfectly whether every pitch was in the strike zone. And then told the human umpire who was standing there through an earpiece whether to call it a ball or a strike. And the way it worked in the early versions is that the robots made the call and the human umpire just let the fans and players know what the robot said. Pablo got what he always dreamed of, what he always pontificated about. There was no more need to argue about the umpire's calls, no more reason to boo the umpire from the stands. And when Papa watched those games,

[Pablo Torres]

it wasn't. It wasn't as good. It wasn't as good because so much of what going to a baseball game is like is you sitting in the stands and effectively using the airspace around you as this sort of pillow you can scream into releasing whatever it is pent up over the course of your day, in your week, and frankly, your childhood. And you're getting to unleash it on. And this is, I think, a really important part of this on another person.

[Eric Glass]

Paw was as though watching the minor league games, knowing that the Human Empire was just the messenger for the Robot Empire and its perfect calls of balls

[Pablo Torres]

and strikes, it felt like the equivalent of talking to a customer service rep that, you know, isn't a person. It's like, I get that you're making human noises, but it's. It's eerie and then realizing, oh, no, no, I want a human. Because when you're getting mad at an umpire in these minor league full ABS system games, you're just yelling at your computer monitor.

[Eric Glass]

Then this season, I'm guessing a lot of you have heard this, the robot umpires arrived in the major leagues. The ABS system went into every Major League Baseball park, and every game in those parks has used that technology. And the problem that Pavel had with ABs when he first saw it in the minors, they fixed it. They fixed it completely and fully, with a competence he had never expected from Major League Baseball. How they do it. So explain for people who aren't watching baseball, how the system works now.

[Pablo Torres]

It's brilliant. The way it works now, and I didn't see it coming, the way it works is that it's not a computer telling the umpire in their ear, this is a ball and this is a strike. What's happening instead is the umpire, the human being is going about their job as they have for decades upon decades.

[Eric Glass]

So the umpire is calling the game the way they always have.

[Pablo Torres]

Yes, except now there is a challenge system in which the batter, the pitcher, the catcher, they can basically throw a flag and say, in so many words, I think the umpire messed up. And at that point, the robot up on the Jumbotron, they show you whether the umpire actually got it right or wrong. And what it did was in this brilliant way, once again, we are judging a human being, the umpire.

[Eric Glass]

So to show just how satisfying that can be for fans, this is a game in Cincinnati in March. It's the Reds versus the Boston Red Sox. This is only three days after they started doing these challenges. Ryan Watson is pitching for Boston, and this is actually his very first game pitching Major League Baseball. And then in the sixth inning, Boston is behind 5, 3. Cincinnati is a bat. Bases are loaded. They have two outs, a red at

[Various Interviewees]

every base with two down.

[Eric Glass]

A player named Eugenio Suarez is At bat, they're paying him to hit the

[Pablo Torres]

ball out of the ballpark.

[Various Interviewees]

This is certainly the moment of the

[Eric Glass]

game to this point.

[Various Interviewees]

Here comes the 1, 2.

[Eric Glass]

And in there, struck him out.

[Various Interviewees]

Now they're gonna challenge this.

[Pablo Torres]

Yeah. What you see is that the batter taps his helmet, which is the signal for I initiate a challenge. I am taking this to the court of appeals. And immediately on the Jumbotron, you see the strike zone and you see the electronic depiction of the ball. And we see that in fact, the batter was right.

[Eric Glass]

ABS Powered by T mobile, that's out of the zone. The ending continues.

[Pablo Torres]

This was not a strike. It was a ball. And the umpire, in other words, has messed up.

[Eric Glass]

And people love it. ABS could be a lot of fun, Lark.

[Pablo Torres]

I mean, this game becomes like this comedic channel chapter in the history of baseball because the very next pitch, another challenge. The batter says, you did it again, Jacuz. Again.

[Eric Glass]

Cold.

[Ira Glass]

Strike three.

[Eric Glass]

Tap the helmet again. Batter's challenging the pitch. Here we go.

[Pablo Torres]

Outside,

[Eric Glass]

the loudest cheers of the game. The Reds have hit two homers. Come out, backto back challenges.

[Pablo Torres]

And now it's just like you almost begin to feel bad for CB Buckner, the umpire, almost. Oh, wow.

[Eric Glass]

Oh, my God. People are standing, they're cheering.

[Emmanuel Berry]

People are so excited.

[Pablo Torres]

So it's so great. Look, in sports, you dream as a sports fan, you dream of stuff. Stuff like this.

[Eric Glass]

Eugenio Suarez then hit the ball and was tagged out of first. But the Reds won. And most eye opening, the umpire, CB Buckner, had six of his calls overturned by the robot umpire in that game. That had never happened before in the major leagues. Papa points out Major League Baseball could have gotten rid of the ump at the plate entirely. The way they got rid of line judges in tennis. They could have chosen perfect robot umpiring, perfect calls balls and strikes like a gas bagged about years ago. Instead, they understood that one of the pleasures of the game is yelling.

[Pablo Torres]

The fact is that there are few scenarios in American life or anywhere that I can imagine where you are, you're empowered. You're legally, contractually allowed to go fucking nuts on the authority figure. Imagine doing that to a judge. You don't get to do that except in sports.

[Eric Glass]

Yeah. There's a quote from the guy who was the chairman of the committee that decided how to roll this out, this guy named John Stanton. And he said that the system that they chose to do retains the human side of the game, adding a new fan. Friendly engagement moment.

[Pablo Torres]

Yeah. I mean, let's be honest about what that is. A fan friendly engagement moment is booing the shit out of umpires. That's what fan friendly engagement means. It means let's give the Coliseum some blood.

[Eric Glass]

Now, you and I are talking about this right now because I reached out to you and I said we're gonna do an episode to commemorate our country's 250th anniversary. And we thought it would be nice to just celebrate and commemorate things that seem very, very American. Like, especially American. How does this ABS challenge system fit the bill?

[Pablo Torres]

Because, America, if you're really cutting to the core of us, we want to be mad. As much as we want justice, we want to be able to express what's inside of us that feels like it's trapped there as much as we want to see each getting their own fair due. And in this ABS system, what our pastime, our oldest, stodgiest, dustiest pastime has given us is somehow the ability to maybe have both.

[Eric Glass]

Both meaning we want justice, but we also want to scream at somebody. Hard not to think about what's going on in national politics. He puts it that way today on our show for our July 4th semiquin centennial. And yes, I had to look that word up, which means 250th according to the Internet. Actually, an alternative word for this is sester centennial, but that just sounds like a very old nun. For our semi quincentennial commemorating what this country has been for 250 years, we thought that it would be fun to collect a bunch of things that just seem very particularly American, like changing the rules of our national pastime to allow for more screaming at figures of authority. Today on our show, we have the most American question. We have a trip to a Michigan sand dune with our own question. And we have so much more. From WBEZ Chicago, this is American Life. I'm Ira Glass. Stay with us.

[Ira Glass]

Foreign. This message comes from Capital One. Capital One offers checking accounts with no fees or minimums. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bankguy for details. Capital One NA member FDIC support for

[Producer/Announcer]

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[Guest Contributor/Expert]

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[Ira Glass]

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[Eric Glass]

This is American Life, our semiquincentennial episode. Boy, that really does not roll off the tongue. Act one A Most American Question so there definitely are a bunch of questions that Americans have asked over our 250 years that seem very characteristically American. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? Do you want fries with that? Where are you from? With this classic companion? Where are you really from? One of our contributors, Jai Yong Fan, has her pick for the most American question out there.

[Jai Young Fan]

The first time I heard someone ask the question Outside of an ESL class, I was 8 years old. Are you okay? I knew so few English words that part of the reason why it registered so distinctly must have been the shock of understanding. Are you okay? A young police officer was asking my mother the question. He had been called, as the police were often called, in our first days in America, to our basement apartment. My mother and I had recently reunited with my father after he'd left to study in America six years earlier, and it hadn't gone well. Doors were slammed, plates shattered, limbs pinned to the ground, ultimatums delivered. Usually I hid in bed, under the covers with palms pasted to my ears. But that day the apartment was quiet. My father had already left for good. Did my mother call because she was being harassed by my father's mistress or because we were being evicted from our basement studio? I no longer remember. I do remember that it was the first time I dared to look at an American police officer up close. Blue uniform, black boots, a belt, heavy and crowded. My mother and I did not look to be in the way of bodily harm. There was nothing more for an officer of the law to do. Are you okay, ma'?

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

Am?

[Jai Young Fan]

The man asked as he stood in the doorway. The question hung in the air as a procedural formality, as a way of wrapping up the visit. I had been in the country for less than a year. But I knew what the next words should be, the standard call and response, the same way that how are you? Had only one answer. Fine, thank you. How are you? But that day, kneeling on the floor, face covered in her own tears and snot, my mother responded with something else. No, she said. The officer lowered himself onto the floor next to the door jamb, then listened and nodded for an hour. I was astonished. My mother followed rules tirelessly and taught me to do the same, all part of adapting as seamlessly as possible. Why would she embarrass herself like that? I didn't understand enough English to follow the conversation, but as I watched my mother closely, I was certain I would never break the script like that. I spent the next several years irritated with Are you okay? Compelled to be okay with it in public while fuming to my diary in private. Here's an entry from when I was 12. October 26, 1996 Are you okay? Everything's going okay, right? Is everything okay? Those are the most common questions in America. I don't like them. Because they don't tell you anything about anything. Yes, of course. Great. Those are the most common answers. Isn't that so cheap? I think so. Those questions are so pointless that it is even a waste of words to me. As I saw it then, the question's hollowness had a distinctly American quality. Here, pleases, thank yous, excuse mes. Weren't they always uttered ad nauseam from mouths of people who had already muscled past you? Are you okay? Was a question supposedly. But how often was it really a mechanical reflex, an American tick announcing itself? Someone goes down hard in lacrosse practice, and the Are you okay? Arrives almost simultaneously with the impact. The question is a reflex, not an inquiry. In our 37 years together, my mother and I were often and unmistakably not okay. Still, it was not a question we often asked of each other, that sort of check in hit too close to the bone. Not Chinese, my mother would have certainly said, though I never pressed her on it. Also not Chinese. Lately, though, I've been thinking about the moment she told the police officer she wasn't okay. I thought she flubbed the obligatory call and response of the question, but now I wonder if it was something else. My mother is dead now, but the look on her face as she knelt and cried with a stranger still comes to me sometimes. It arrives most vividly, unbidden, when I'm with friends or mothers watching their kids on the neighborhood playground, a scrape on the knee or the elbow, the wound still red and angry. And someone, a mother, a friend, administers the question. And there on the child's open mouth and tear smeared face is my mother's shocked look. The child hears the question. It doesn't make the pain go away, but the question stays in the air. It becomes a pause, a door held open.

[Eric Glass]

Jai Young Fan She's a staff writer at the New Yorker. That story was produced by Diane Wu. Act two Sitting on a Hill of sand we here in the land of the free do not like to be told what to do. And additionally, and maybe especially, we don't like to be told what not to do. Aviv Der Kornfeld has a story about that very American quality as it plays out in one of our shared public spaces.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

I went to Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore to see the star attraction, the tallest dune in the park. It's 450ft high and slopes down at what looks like a 45 degree angle directly into Lake Michigan. If you can't picture 450ft, imagine a 34 story building. The grade is so steep that from the bottom of the dune you can't even see up to the top. It's just a wall of sand in front of you. Oh my gosh. Good luck.

[Eric Glass]

All right, let's get over here.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

Thank you so much. Take your time. People come from all over the Midwest to walk down this dune and then promptly turn around and trudge right back up. There's only a two foot wide strip of beach at the bottom, so turning around is about all there is to do. This climb is not for everyone. Dozens need assistance climbing out each summer, and because of that, the Park Service tries to discourage people from climbing the dune without prohibiting it outright. They've tried a bunch of different signs. The current one mentions the ecological damage of walking on the dune and says down is optional, which is intentionally soft language because their previous sign said that there'd be a $3,000 rescue fee, which Americans seem to take as a kind of personal challenge. And even more people attempt did the climb. Park rangers also patrol the top ridge asking visitors about their intentions with the dune. Here's Jen, the aggressively mild mannered ranger on the job today, talking with some prospective climbers. It's a lot harder than it looks,

[Pablo Torres]

I will tell you. Yes.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

And it's all sand. Yes. So it is a very challenging climb. Usually people on the bottom half are using all fours basically to get back up.

[Emmanuel Berry]

So it's very challenging.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

But yeah, I think the view's best at the top Approximately eight feet away from Jen sits Jim. He's part of the team of volunteers helping rangers deter people. My job up here is to try to save them from themselves, let them know. Jim's been volunteering for almost a decade. He sits on his chair wearing his bright orange volunteer vest, pimped out with various pins and patches he's earned over the years, including, proudly, a junior ranger badge. This is my 86th summer up here. Oh, my God. Just love it. Yeah. Wow. Jim's seen all kinds of ill advised behavior. People heading down without water, without shoes, without their inhaler, and worst of all, as far as Jim is concerned, running down the dune, we had a girl get badly hurt here. She ran down, she tripped, she bolted out, tried to stop herself. She dislocated both shoulders, broke a collarbone, wrenched her neck, hurt her back, and cut her head on a rock. Oh, my God. Standing on the ridge, you can see the slope filled with dozens of people, heads down slowly, silently trudging up the hill. Scores of people who were told not to do this and decided to try it anyway. How you feeling down here?

[Eric Glass]

I feel good. This is what we came for.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

At the very bottom of the hill, I met Michael and his daughter Kalea, who drove here from Georgia.

[Various Interviewees]

The lady at the place that you

[Eric Glass]

check in at, she suggested that you not do this. She said, I advise y' all against it.

[Various Interviewees]

All the park rangers say not to do it.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

And yet you guys thought, well, we

[Eric Glass]

drove a thousand miles to get here, so yes, we're going to do it.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

Yeah. And you. And you're not worried about going back up?

[Ira Glass]

No.

[Eric Glass]

She plays soccer and I train with

[Various Interviewees]

her, so we're ready to go.

[Eric Glass]

We're f a race back up.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

I think that's the subject of peer pressure. Half an hour later, I found Michael again, only about a third of the way up. How are you feeling?

[Eric Glass]

Lord, hopefully I make it slow and steady. I knew it was gonna be hard, but it's harder than I thought it would be.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

A little further up the hill, I spot another guy named Michael. He's wearing an oversized visor and has blue braces on his teeth. He was part of a whole crew wearing matching hats celebrating his 50th birthday. If you could call this celebrating. How are you feeling now?

[Producer/Announcer]

Tired?

[Eric Glass]

Yeah, humbling.

[Various Interviewees]

You know, every step you take up, you lose at least half of it going backwards, but yeah.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

One guy who had taken off his sand filled sneakers and slung them over his neck kept muttering to himself like a mantra. I should have listened to my wife I should have listened to my wife. The reason why you're not hearing that on tape is because it was so hard to move around the dune zigzagging from person to person.

[Eric Glass]

Oh my God.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

I don't think it's a stretch to say we are a country of people who have been told over and over that we are the exception. So many of our movies, so many of the stories we tell ourselves are about how the rules, the warnings, the statistics, those are for other people. When we hear that most people can't do something, we are trained to think, well, I'm not most people. But really, when we try to live out this pint sized American exceptionalism, we are just as likely to find ourselves face down in the sand, panting and humbled. Less city on a hill and more bear crawling up it. How are you feeling?

[Pablo Torres]

Like death.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

I notice that you are on your hands and knees.

[Eric Glass]

Yep.

[Pablo Torres]

Really rethinking life choices right now.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

I'm just tired. Are we halfway there yet?

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

I don't think we're halfway there yet.

[Eric Glass]

That's a bitch.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

Are you on vacation? Why would you spend your vacation doing something so punishing? Is your life not hard enough?

[Jai Young Fan]

Sucks.

[Eric Glass]

I work my ass off all the time.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

So yeah, it's just another day in the life. Yep, Kids seem to have a much easier time than adults. The top of the hill was full of children who because of their tiny body weight, scampered like water beetles on top of the sand up to the ridge. And then had the pleasure of watching the adults who usually boss them around, huff and puff. 300ft below them, I met an 11 year old and his little brother waiting for their parents. He's five. You're five and you went all the

[Eric Glass]

way to the bottom?

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

Yeah, we went to the water and then we go all the way to the top. And he's faster than our whole family.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

Wow.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

He doesn't even have capped knees yet. So what? Is that true? I thought you got knees when you were like could walk?

[Jai Young Fan]

No.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

You know your kneecaps? Yeah. You get them when you're 10.

[Jai Young Fan]

Makes it harder to climb.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

What, like this? Your kneecap? You get that when you're 10? Yeah, actually, yeah. Can I see your knees? They look the same. It's the inside kneecap.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

Huh.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

I walk over to Jim with my fully formed kneecaps and pick up our conversation. He started expounding on how he counsels people. Well, if I start to tell people about what it's like and eagle. A bald eagle flew overhead. We all turned and looked and there we stood, a bunch of Americans on a perfect summer day on a dune in a park, being destroyed by our actions and maintained by our tax dollars, watching our mascot soar through the sky, indifferent to our plight below.

[Eric Glass]

David Kornfeld is one of the producers of our program. That story was co produced by Molly Marcelo. Coming up, Americans thousands of miles away on tiny islands, recreating some very American things about home, whether they intend to or not. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

[Ira Glass]

This message comes from Capital One. Capital One offers checking accounts with no fees or minimums. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bankguy for details. Capital One NA member FDIC support for

[Producer/Announcer]

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[Ira Glass]

This message comes from NetSuite. They say that every day your business is late to AI, you fall two days behind. Fortunately, there's NetSuite NEXT. NetSuite NEXT is where your business meets AI. Because AI is built into everything you do, it automatically surfaces custom insights. Throughout your day, AI agents work alongside you to solve problems. It's just like you're having a conversation with a colleague. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, try NetSuite next for free. Go to NetSuite Aistory. This message comes from Capital One. With the Capital One Saver card, earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment. Capital One. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. [e-mail]

[Eric Glass]

it's this American Life from Ira Glass. Today's program Maximal Americanness. For our nation's 250th birthday, we have stories about things that seem very especially and particularly American. We arrived at Act 3 of our program, Act 3 Cooked Island. For this next act, I'm joined in the studio by our executive editor, Emmanuel Berry.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

Hello.

[Emmanuel Berry]

Hey there.

[Eric Glass]

And you are here because one a very American invention was television. And then we as a nation topped that by creating an even more American thing, which is reality tv. And you are here to tell us about the kind of cherry on top of all of that.

[Emmanuel Berry]

Yes, I'm going to present the most American season of reality tv.

[Eric Glass]

And I should say you watch a lot of reality tv. So what season is it?

[Emmanuel Berry]

All right, we are talking about season 13 of Survivor.

[Eric Glass]

And Survivor is the old school reality show where they stick a bunch of people on an island and divide them into teams and they compete in challenges and then people get voted off, right?

[Emmanuel Berry]

Yes, yes, yes. That's Survivor. Classic show. We all know it. And so the season of Survivor I want to talk about is what me other Survivor fans call the race war season. And we call it that because in this season, they divided the tribes up by race. So there's like an African American tribe, there's a white tribe, there's an Asian American tribe, there's a Latino tribe. I know that's not a race, but that's like how they divided the tribes.

[Eric Glass]

Okay, so that seems like an incredibly loaded and crazy thing to do. Why did they do this?

[Emmanuel Berry]

So basically, Survivor had gotten a lot of criticism because the casting just wasn't very diverse. And on top of that, a lot of times they would get to the end of the season and it would only be the white players left.

[Eric Glass]

Oh, the non white players could get voted off early.

[Emmanuel Berry]

Yes. So this was their response to that. They were like, okay, you guys want more diversity? Here is more diversity, which is a choice.

[Eric Glass]

You have to respect them for kind of doubling down. How did the contestants on the show feel about it?

[Emmanuel Berry]

So the contestants seem kind of confused by it. They're like, why did we make this about race?

[Eric Glass]

Different ethnic groups?

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

I mean, is that kosher?

[Eric Glass]

I honestly was stunned. I mean, this was crazy.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

I mean, I.

[Eric Glass]

You know, on one hand, I think

[Various Interviewees]

it's a great opportunity because I think

[Eric Glass]

it's wonderful that there's more minorities.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

At the same time, I'm a little

[Eric Glass]

bit worried that it might play out to caricatures the of stereotypes.

[Emmanuel Berry]

I remember watching the show and being really shocked when I first started the season because I was like, I can't believe that they did this, but honestly got over it really quick because basically something happened in the first scene that switched the way I was seeing it, and from there on it just kept happening.

[Eric Glass]

So what happened?

[Emmanuel Berry]

So they start the season in this really dramatic way. They're on a boat in the middle of the South Pacific, and the host, Jeff Probst, is telling all the contestants to gather supplies, you know, get on a raft and go to shore with your team.

[Eric Glass]

They've been given two minutes to salvage whatever they can off this boat.

[Emmanuel Berry]

And just like you have two minutes. Grab as much as you can.

[Eric Glass]

You need to catch that chicken. That is food you want.

[Emmanuel Berry]

So they grab as much as they can get to the island. And then this thing happens that really, it could happen on any season of Survivor, which is someone from one of the tribes steals chickens from the other tribe. But because this season is, you know, everyone's divided by race, it's like I kind of can't help but notice that it was the white tribe that stole the chicken from the Asian tribe. And so I'm watching this, and I'm thinking, that is so white.

[Eric Glass]

I see that.

[Emmanuel Berry]

But then I'm like, oh, why did I even think that? You know, like, looking at my own biases and thinking about how I'm thinking about race. Right.

[Eric Glass]

Oh, so you're having this thing where you're finding yourself asking over and over, is that race or is that me?

[Emmanuel Berry]

Yeah. So all that is happening in the first few episodes, and then the producers decide, you know what? Let's end the segregation thing. They're like, mix up the teams. Like, they completely abandon this initial premise of the season, and everybody is now on integrated teams, basically. But the thing is, because they started out segregated, the race thing is sort of still hanging over the whole thing. And then there's this twist that happens. It's right before a challenge, and the two tribes have gathered, and Jeff says, we're going to try something different here.

[Ira Glass]

I'm offering each of you the opportunity

[Emmanuel Berry]

to mutiny, which essentially means you can abandon your tribe and go and join the other tribe.

[Eric Glass]

And does this play out in a racially charged way?

[Emmanuel Berry]

Well, the only people who switch are two white players, so they go and join the other white players on the other tribe. And just to say they could have done it because they had close relationships with those people or lots of reasons that they could have done this. But it's hard not to think watching them walk across to the other side. Hmm. White flight. Because what it does is it totally creates these two lopsided tribes. One tribe of four left, the tribe they abandoned, which has four poc, and then the other tribe has now eight people, four white people, two Asian people, one black person, and one Hispanic person.

[Eric Glass]

And wait. And so one tribe is twice as big as the other, so that must give them an advantage, right?

[Emmanuel Berry]

It does in a lot of ways. I think they think, like, oh, we're about to, like, sweep this other tribe. There's no way they're gonna, like, win any challenges. And what happens actually is kind of the exact opposite. So the little tribe of four, which is the. They call them the i24, the little POC coalition. They basically go on, I would say, one of the greatest runs in Survivor history. So they win every single challenge from then on out, even though they're outnumbered, you know, 2 to 1. And again, as I'm watching this, it's kind of hard not to think, huh? Gotta be twice as good, right? It's all these people of color who are having to be smarter and work harder and do all of these things just to, like, stay on the even playing field to win, essentially.

[Eric Glass]

Yeah.

[Emmanuel Berry]

And, you know, each time they win, the other team has to go to tribal council, they kick off a person of color until finally it kind of becomes this very stark thing where it's down to four white people versus four people of color.

[Eric Glass]

At the end of the producers got what they wanted, kind of.

[Emmanuel Berry]

Yeah, Right. And then that tribe, that is the POC tribe, they keep winning, and then they vote all the white contestants off one by one.

[Eric Glass]

And so when you see how all of this played out by the end of the season, why do you think of this as the most American season of reality tv?

[Emmanuel Berry]

I mean, because in general, in this country, we don't want to talk about race. We don't want to have to think about race.

[Eric Glass]

No, we do not.

[Emmanuel Berry]

And then we are forced into these situations where we have no choice. We have to talk about it. It's come up again. You guys support prize.

[Eric Glass]

Yeah. Things happen.

[Emmanuel Berry]

And then. And then in this season, we have that experience over and over and over again. And to me, it is like such a quintessential part of the American experience, and it's all playing out in this game on a freaking island in the middle of the South Pacific.

[Eric Glass]

Emmanuel Berry is the executive editor of our program. Act four, the Most American School Book. So Roman Mars hosts the podcast 99% Invisible, and he recently started a new series with the BBC. It's called A History of the United States in 100 Objects. And one of the stories on his new show seemed very much in line with what we're talking about here today on our show. It is about a book that shaped education in this country for years. Here's Roman.

[Various Interviewees]

The book I'm going to tell you about was written by one very frustrated school teacher. This guy is teaching in 1783. The Revolutionary War is ending, the fighting on American soil finally tapering off. And in every part of regular life, people are trying to figure out, okay, now that we're not British anymore, what does it actually mean to be an American. This teacher, he's educating anywhere from 50 to 70 students in a one room schoolhouse. And these students range from 6 to 16 years old. It's the same in a lot of places around the country. A very small percentage of kids are getting an education and, and even if they do get into a classroom, there's no standard curriculum, no shared set of books or processes. The books these students are using are British teaching, British geography, British history, British ways of thinking. People are largely still spelling the word color with a U. And the schoolteacher, he looks around at all of this and decides this has to change. His name is Noah Webster.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

He's this person who takes on as an educator the problem of literacy.

[Various Interviewees]

That's Imani Perry, author and professor of African American studies at Harvard University.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

And he complains about the classrooms being crowded and noisy and chaotic. And he is also sort of interested in trying to find a way to standardize American learning.

[Various Interviewees]

So long before his dictionary made him a household name, Webster spends his own money to print a little blue book with an unwieldy title. It's called the first part of the Grammatical Institute of the English Language, a title so bad that nobody ever used it. They just started calling it the Blue Back Speller.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

So he really creates this book that is built for an autodidact. It's a way to self teach. It's not a dictionary. It really is like a guide to learning to read.

[Various Interviewees]

If it sounds kind of counterintuitive that you'd learn to read from a book that requires you to read, here's how that works. The book contains a bunch of exercises that kind of look like multiplication tables, but with words and letters that you'd memorize. First, you'd start by learning the Alphabet, A, B, C, D. And then you'd move to syllables like a, ba, ka, and da, until you finally learn simple words like bag, big, bog, bug. Eventually you'd form sentences, read paragraphs, and then you'd read these short stories, a collection of fables and moral parables. Webster uses the book to introduce simpler, more distinctly American spellings. He drops the U for from humor and labor. He once suggested that we start spelling the word daughter as D, a, W, T, E, r, which would have been nice, though that one didn't stick. But his larger idea does succeed. This book, the Blue Back Speller, becomes one of the most important books in early America. Entire generations grow up with it. At one point, the Blue Back Speller was second only to the Bible in copies, soldiers and it Also, it's kind of like a Bible. Like, could you describe its size and the relevance of its size?

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

Yeah, I mean, it's wonderful to hold one because you realize it's pocket size. I mean, it was small enough to fit into a jacket pocket or pants pocket. It was mobile.

[Various Interviewees]

Yeah. And it could be hidden.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

It could easily be hidden, which was really important.

[Various Interviewees]

Important because it means the book could be used secretly by people who weren't supposed to have it, enslaved people who were legally prohibited from learning to read. Webster probably never intended this book for black people at all. While he was against slavery, Webster's books were meant for Americans who were defined by Webster in his dictionary as descendants of Europeans, white people.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

And despite that fact, his blueback speller becomes something that is fundamental to African American struggles for literacy.

[Various Interviewees]

The blueback speller was everywhere, so common that some enslaved people managed to get their hands on it anyway. Even though teaching an enslaved person to read was actually against the law in

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

much of the south, having one of these spellers for someone who's enslaved could put you at enormous risk of maiming, of death, of being sold. Black literacy was seen as a threat.

[Various Interviewees]

One of the enslaved people who learned to read this way was Frederick Douglass. He'd go on to become one of the most influential writers and thinkers in American history, an advisor to Abraham Lincoln.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

He and countless other black people take on that blue back speller, insist upon becoming part of the literate American public. And one of the early ways we see this is, you know, black soldiers in the Civil War who become literate and immediately begin writing letters to Lincoln saying not only are they hopeful for land with their freedom, but there have to be schools.

[Various Interviewees]

The blue back speller found its way from shipyard to town square, from the schoolhouses of New England to the plantations of the South. And when I actually got my hands on it, if I'm being honest, the content of the book itself is kind of a joyless slog. If you asked me to teach someone to read using the blue back speller, it would be hard. And I can't imagine starting from a place of not being able to read at all and using it to navigate my way to literacy. It just throws you right into the deep end of the pool, swimming in pages of hard to navigate tables. And then there are the moral parables. They're not exactly compelling and more than a little condescending. If you were someone who didn't get a primary school education, this seems like exactly the kind of book that might put you off of reading forever. It takes real conviction to use the book.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

Yes.

[Various Interviewees]

It goes from basically, you know, pre kindergarten to college inside of a few hundred, like maybe 100 pages.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

Pages, let's see.

[Various Interviewees]

It is not something that you just pick up and all of a sudden you have mastery.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

No, it's Christ's work. And despite that fact, his blueback speller becomes something that is important, the same object. It's Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. du Bois for whom the blueback speller matters. There's something quintessentially American about the blueback speller. It becomes not only a way to learn to read, but actually a tool for entry into all kinds of arenas where they had not been contemplated.

[Various Interviewees]

The blue bag speller wasn't what it was because the genius of Noah Webster, it became what it became because of the people who read it, who made something of it.

[Eric Glass]

A version of the story originally aired on his new show, A History of the United States and 100 objects. It was originally produced by Priscilla Alaby and aired courtesy of BBC Studios Productions Limited 99% invisible and Sirius XM. You can find the series in the 99% invisible feed wherever you get your podcasts. Imani Perry tells the story of the blueback speller in her new book, Black and Blues. Which brings us to Act 5. Act 5, Jose. Can you see? So one of the areas where this country can really claim to have invented a lot of things is music. There's jazz, there's R and B, there's rock, there's country, there's hip hop, all created here and then exported around the world. But we do have some musical traditions that are very specific to this country and pretty much have stayed in this country. One of our producers, Emmanuel Joci, has a story about one like that.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

So when I first moved to the US As a kid, years before I became a citizen, I remember noticing this one very distinct thing, which is that every time I saw someone sing the national anthem, they put their own little twist on it, and they always seemed to do it in this one spot. It doesn't matter the genre the singer is from, And it doesn't matter if they sing the rest of the song fairly straight. Like, people will get to that last part of the song and do something completely different. Sometimes they scat or add their own words. They pull a Mariah Carey because, well, they are Mariah Carey. This happens so often. I think most Americans have sort of accepted it as a fact, but this sort of thing just doesn't go down like that in other countries. Like, if you take the uk where I was born, like that national anthem. I have no earthly idea why I would even begin to put my own spin on it. The ad libbing thing is not really something Brits do to God Save the King, right? Like you just kind of wish King Charles a happy, victorious life and you keep it pushing. But when I told some of my co workers at this American Life about this, this, they were incredulous. Like, surely other countries play around with the end of their national lap films. It's the end of a song, dude. Like, what else are you going to do? I heard all that and I took it personally. So I set out to prove them wrong. I spoke to five musicologists about this at places like Stanford, Berkeley, unc and they all agreed with me. What American singers do at the end of a national anthem is something you really don't see much in other countries. And there are a bunch of reasons for that. Like, for one, Francis Scott Key, who wrote the lyrics to the Star Spangled Banner, specifically chose a melody that's designed for showing off. This is very different from other national anthems, which are often marches or hymns. The tune Scott Key picked came from a musicians club in England and was basically the equivalent of one of those songs you use at a talent show to show your incredible range and voice. In fact, that's why the song is so hard for most of us to sing. The original tune has this kind of you can't sing with us energy. Besides, I'll instruct you like me to entwine the myrtle of Venus with a

[Eric Glass]

dark cast and vine.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

The other reason of except countries don't improvise the way we do on their anthem is they don't have our tradition of improvised music like we have jazz, blues, gospel, black music. Where it's built in that you don't always do what's on the page. There's, you know, freedom or whatever individuality. Duke Ellington did his own version in the 1940s. A newly moved to the US Igor Stravinsky did one too. And yet the first major recorded instance of vocalists got up at a sporting event and, and decided they were going to customize the Star Spangled Banner and sing it their own way is relatively recent. The consensus all points to one particular performance of the anthem in 1968.

[Eric Glass]

Ladies and gentlemen, your attention please. Please rise and join in the singing of our national anthem.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

It was game five of the World Series and the guy who sung Jose Feliciano was a big star. His cover of Light My Fire came out that year and Jose was Chosen to do the national anthem that night specifically because of who he was. A young Puerto Rican folk singer who could offer something different. Feliciano doesn't just alter that one line of the song. His version is a whole rethinking of it. It's almost like he's trying to do away with the grandeur of the song and do the opposite, make it int

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

and Bright Star feel the perilous sight for the ramparts.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

We watch a recording Feliciano did of this version was super successful. He opened his concerts with it. And then a year later, Jimi Hendrix goes even further at Woodstock. Then a whole raft of people take these big swings. There's Marvin Gaye's 1983 version at the NBA All Star Game, which sounds like it should come with a free waterbed.

[Eric Glass]

Broad stripes.

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

And. The inspiration for how everybody sings it now, that arrives in 1991. Whitney Houston the Super Bowl. She slows the song down, changes it from three full time to four full time, which gives her more space, and she sings it mostly straight until the end. And that last line, God, I miss Whitney Houston. But, yeah, that's how we get to today, a ritual where you as a vocalist, no matter what your race, what your genre of music, you clock in, do the job you were hired for, sing the song through like they wrote it, and you get, you know, two phrases at the end for some real personality. Now I just want to play you one last version because this weekend, the 250th anniversary of this country, it's probably one of the only appropriate settings for it. This one is the most on the nose general pattern in front of the American flag. These colors don't run if you ain't first, you're last. You can take this anthem from me out of my cold dead fingers rendition of the Star Spangled Banner I have yet heard because the occasion, I guess, called for it. It was the 100th birthday of the Statue of Liberty, 1986, and the singer was Sandy Patty. The national anthem normally runs about two minutes, but Sandy, she makes it last for almost six. She adds all these extra verses that were written for the occasion. And every time you think the song is about to end, there is more. I learnt about this version in high school in a music theory class because our teacher used it as the greatest example of key changes. We were still six months away from Beyonce's Love on Top. But anyways, Sandy Patty, she takes it higher and higher.

[Producer/Announcer]

Again

[Jim (Volunteer at Sleeping Bear Dunes)]

and again and again. It is totally ridiculous and yet kind of incredible.

[Eric Glass]

Emmanuel Joci.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

Yeah, Got to, got to make the world go round.

[Emmanuel Berry]

Got to make the world round.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

You may have a black blood or

[Eric Glass]

you may have the white blood.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

But we all are living on blood

[Emmanuel Berry]

so don't belong slipping to the mud

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

causing be the people left. You tell them got to make the world go round. Got to make the world well.

[Eric Glass]

The program was produced today by Emmanuel Jochi, Molly Marcelo and me. The people who put together today's show include Fia Bennett, Dana Chivas, Cassie Halle, Adrian Lilly, Seth Lynn, Meeki Meeks, Dylan Nelson, Robin Reed, Marissa Robertson, Texter Ryan Rummery, Alyssa Shipp, Christopher Sertala, our managing editor, Sara Abderrahman, our senior editors, David Kestenbaum. Special thanks today to Sean Conns, Anna Gret Fouster, Stephen Hinton, Nate Sloan, Nicholas Matthew, Mark Clegg, Jay Allison, Neil Drumming, Sage Miller, Angelica Bastian, Sierra Crane Murdoch, Ashley C. Ford, Annie Brown, Charlie Lannan, Bonnie Bastian, Laura Ann Johnson, Scott Tucker, Friends of Sleeping Bear Dunes, Michigan Public, Sal Lacero and Clotilde Johnson Beal. Thanks also today to this American Life partners Jonathan Teller and Becky Liebman. Who are these life partners I speak of? They are people who have signed up to pay a little bit of money to help us do something very basic, which is to continue making our show. If that is a goal you support, I hope you'll consider joining them. Join us. You get all kinds of perks as a thanks. Most notably, I think just the show continuing to exist. But also we've been experimenting with all sorts of stuff. I've been writing a weekly newsletter for two weeks now. We'll see how long it goes. Go to thisamericanlife.org LifeProm partners. That link is also in the show Notes. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by prx, the public radio Exchange. Thanks as always to our program's co founder, Mr. Tory Malatea. You know, recently he has learned what being ashy is and I don't know, it's embarrassing. He keeps going up to strangers and

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

asking, can I see your niece?

[Eric Glass]

I'm Eric Glass. Back next week with more stories of this American Life.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

This message comes from Midi health co founders Dr. Kathleen Jordan and CEO Joanna Strober discuss why they started a virtual care platform for women in perimenopause and menopause.

[Aviv Der Kornfeld]

The symptoms and experiences that women have in midlife, I think were underappreciated or possibly even trivialized. The changes of perimenopause and menopause create a broad spectrum of symptoms and can actually lead to long term health issues, but too few clinicians are trained in it.

[Guest Contributor/Expert]

I also want to add often the type of care that women are needing is very iterative. It requires trying different medications, learning about their body, and learning how to take care of themselves. And so what we've tried to do at MIDI Health is create a new type of care system that is responsive to women's needs and helps them take care of themselves and stay healthy instead of just treating disease. MIDI Health committed to helping women in midlife with perimenopause and menopause care accessible via telehealth [e-mail].