891: The Test Case

Summary

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Podcast Summary: This American Life – Episode 891: The Test Case

Date: July 12, 2026
Host: Ira Glass
Producer & Primary Reporter: Zoe Chase

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Overview of Main Theme

This episode documents a landmark criminal trial in Texas, where activists—accused of forming an “Antifa terrorist cell” and launching an armed attack on an ICE detention center—face charges of “material support to terrorism.” The episode follows the lead-up to the trial, the courtroom drama, and its aftermath, all set against a polarized national debate about whether Antifa exists as a terror group or simply as a loose ideology. Through on-the-ground reporting and interviews—especially with a key cooperator, Lynette Sharp—the episode explores the human stories behind the headlines, interrogates how the justice system handles political cases in the current climate, and questions what “terrorism” means in contemporary America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Incident – July 4, 2025

• Setting: Prairieland Detention Center, Alvarado, Texas (outside Dallas), ICE facility.
• Event: Protesters assembled outside, set off fireworks, and called out messages of hope (“Esperanza, hope you are not forgotten”) to detainees.
• Escalation: A police officer, Lt. Thomas Gross, was shot in the shoulder by a masked protester (Ben Song). The shooter fled into nearby sunflower fields; chaos ensued with police responding, searching, and arresting multiple individuals—many dressed in black, some with tactical gear and firearms.

  "He jumps out of the car, drawing his gun in one hand, walkie talkie in the other, and this next thing happens almost immediately, just six seconds after he gets out of the car. I'm hit." – Ira Glass (01:49)

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2. The Trial – Setting the Stage

• Political Stakes: The event is seized upon by the administration as proof of a tangible, organized Antifa terror network. The case becomes both a prosecution and a national test of the Antifa label as real, organized threat vs. amorphous ideology.

  "This Texas case with these defendants was a chance for the administration to lay out their best that Antifa is in fact a terror group operating here and now in the United States." – Ira Glass (04:03)

• Government Narrative: High-level officials (FBI, Fox News, Trump aides) frame incident as coordinated terrorism.
• Jury Selection: Contentious; many potential jurors excluded for strong opinions on ICE, protesters, or Antifa.
• Early Drama: Day one mistrial over a defense attorney’s shirt; later a cramped, more tense courtroom.

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3. Courtroom Evidence & Strategies

3.1 Prosecution Argument

• Physical Evidence: Cartloads of firearms, body armor, trauma kits—displayed in court.
• Prosecutorial Frame: Presents group as coordinated, militarized cell; portrays actions as terroristic assault.
• Officer Reactions Included: Police bodycam footage of officers referencing a “coordinated terror attack.”

  "Bro. This is like a straight coordinated terror attack on Prairie Land." – Officer Bodycam (12:20)

3.2 Defense Argument

• Downplaying of “Cell”: Defense insists it was a protest (even if poorly planned); guns were to defend from armed counter-protesters, and never left the van.

  “These are all legal guns. And these people have guns for a reason. When out protesting, the lawyers argue, these guys encounter counter protesters on the right who are armed. So they're armed. They often bring them. Most importantly, they point out the guns in that van. They never left the van.” – Zoe Chase (12:56)

• “Just a Protest Gone Wrong”: Argue that this is just another noisy anti-ICE demonstration gone sideways, not terrorism.

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4. The “Antifa Expert” Debate (Act 2 – “The Expert”)

• Prosecution’s Key Witness: Kyle Scheidler, Center for Security Policy, testifies that Antifa is real and structured via affinity groups, “black bloc” tactics, and encrypted comms; points to anarchist book clubs, red-and-black flags as evidence.

  "Antifa is not a typical terrorist organization with leaders or membership lists...they operate as affinity groups." — Paraphrase of Scheidler’s testimony (21:24)

• Defense Cross-Examination: Led by Patrick McClain, assisted by terrorism researcher Anne Speckard (not ultimately called); they press the lack of real leadership, membership lists, or evidence of coordinated planning—mock the “evidence” of ideology (stickers, zines, a horticulture book).
• Judicial Skepticism: Judge quizzes the expert pointedly:

  "Just because I own a Copy of Mein Kampf doesn't make me a fascist or a Nazi, does it?" – Judge Pittman (26:15)
  "Not unless it's consistent with your other behavior." – Kyle Scheidler

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5. Turning Point: Cooperator Testimony (Act 3 – "The Cooperator")

• Plea Deals: Seven co-defendants plead guilty to reduced charges; some agree that what happened was an Antifa act (in exchange for lighter sentences). Five testify for prosecution.
• Key Interview – Lynette Sharp: Not at the event itself but helped the shooter evade authorities afterwards. Her life story is traced: childhood trauma, church community, later LGBT and activist engagement.
  • On Motivation: Drawn to inclusion, group belonging, and purpose—first in religion, then in activist circles.
  • On Antifa Identity: Refuses to endorse prosecution’s language describing the group as Antifa per se.

    “I am anti fascist. I said, there's no group called Antifa.” – Lynette Sharp (53:38)

  • On the Protesters: Describes collective as loosely organized, more like a friend group/book club, some “playing dress up.”
  • On Family: Her family’s suffering convinced her to cooperate for a lighter sentence.
• Plea Deal Language: Eventually agreed only to say she “adhered to an anti-fascist, anti-ICE, anti-government ideology, which the government classifies as antifa.”
• Cooperator Testimony Undercuts Prosecution: Even witnesses for the prosecution emphasize that no one planned violence; shooter’s reaction post-shooting read as shock, not premeditation.

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6. The Verdict & Aftermath (Act 4 – “The Verdict”)

• Defense Confident: Opt not to call any witnesses, seeing government case as weak after expert and cooperator testimony.
• Jury Deliberation: After a day and a half, eight of nine defendants are convicted of material support to terrorism and related charges (including fireworks counted as explosives); shooter (Ben Song) found guilty on firearm and attempted murder charges.

  “It was like an icy wind blew down the hall. The verdict is in. All the defendants families hustled into the courtroom.” – Zoe Chase (62:39)

• Reactions:
  • Defense Attorney Brian Buffard: “What does [a guilty verdict] mean? Well, it means the government is going to be emboldened to continue to use the law in this way, which is a danger to everybody, as everybody ought to know.” (65:05)
  • Family Members: Express devastation, shock at severity of sentencing.
  • Friends Split: Tensions rise between those who cooperated (“snitches”) and those who did not.
• Sentencing: Staggeringly long. Most get 50–70 years; the shooter receives a 100-year sentence; one non-violent co-defendant (helped hide evidence) gets 30 years.
• Legal Note: The law used (material support to terrorism) requires “more than $1,000 in damage” and intent to break the law—doesn’t require proving “Antifa” as an organization.

  “The entire antifa portion of the trial… wasn’t necessary to prove their case.” – Zoe Chase (66:48)

• National Consequence: Sets precedent; similar cases now cropping up in other states, using “Antifa” language in indictments regardless of group structure.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the use of terrorism laws for protest:

  “It's a prime example to him, the DOJ becoming a tool for punishing people who disagree with the President.” – Zoe Chase, summarizing Buffard’s view (29:08)

• On Antifa’s existence:

  “Are these defendants Antifa? Are not actually the questions that were put in front of the jurors… The entire antifa portion of the trial that wasn't necessary to prove their case.” – Zoe Chase (66:48)

• Judge’s skepticism toward ideology as proof:

  “Just because I own a Copy of Mein Kampf doesn't make me a fascist or a Nazi, does it?” – Judge Pittman (26:15)

• Lynette on belonging:

  “It felt amazing to know that there were other people that actually cared about something other than themselves that were willing to, you know, help other people for free.” – Lynette Sharp (44:35)

• On family impact and plea deal:

  “All of this affected my family a lot more than I thought it would. We'd all been so distant for so long. I kind of felt like I was, you know, they wouldn't miss me much. That turned out not to be true.” – Lynette Sharp (52:24)

• On the meaninglessness of “antifa” label in court:

  “If you look closely at this case… what was actually in the charges, at what was said in court… it doesn't prove anything about antifa at all.” – Zoe Chase (69:50)

• Scene at sentencing:

  “It was like an icy wind blew down the hall.” – Zoe Chase (62:39) “God bless America. It's hot out here. What do you think of, you know, everybody's guilty of terrorism?” – Post-verdict, defense attorney Brian Buffard (64:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:31 - 02:42] - 911 call, initial police confrontation, officer shot
• [04:30 - 07:50] - Media and government framing of Antifa, national politics
• [08:40 - 12:56] - Inside the trial: jury selection, evidence, courtroom drama
• [15:31 - 21:24] - Introducing the experts, prepping to combat government Antifa narrative
• [21:24 - 28:37] - “Antifa expert” testimony and defense cross
• [33:44 - 45:22] - Cooperator Lynette Sharp’s story: from church lady to “alleged terrorist”
• [45:55 - 51:13] - Lynette’s activist group, emotional testimony, helping shooter evade police
• [53:38 - 55:15] - Lynette on plea negotiation and her refusal to use “Antifa cell” language
• [56:09 - 57:45] - Lynette’s courtroom testimony and relationships to co-defendants
• [59:05 - 65:36] - Verdict announced; reactions from defense, families, community
• [66:48 - 69:53] - Discussion of the narrow legal standard, irrelevance of “Antifa” to convictions, sentencing

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Flow and Takeaways

The episode weaves the procedural details and high-political stakes of the trial with deeply personal storytelling: the activists’ biographies are as important as the legal contest over “Antifa.” Zoe Chase’s reporting brings both the absurdities and the emotional costs of such a charged prosecution into sharp relief. Judges, lawyers, and jurors are depicted in all their quirks and contradictions. Ultimately, jurors don’t need to believe Antifa exists for the prosecution to prevail—broad terrorism laws and harsh sentencing do the rest.

The story underscores the power—and danger—of labels in law and politics, the murkiness of intent and ideology, and how justice can hinge on much more than the facts of a single chaotic night.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

• Expect: Investigative storytelling that grounds American cultural battles over protest, terrorism, and ideology in human drama.
• You’ll hear: Courtroom blow-by-blows, cross-examinations, family heartbreak, the slipperiness of “terrorist” labels, and what happens when ordinary activists are tried as America’s domestic villains.
• The episode’s answer: Even at “the test case,” the system does not settle the biggest political questions—it just passes the costs on down to the accused.

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Transcript

[Ira Glass]

Support for this NPR podcast and the following message come from Carvana. Selling your car. Carvana has offers so good they're almost inexplicable. Sell your car 100% online in minutes. Visit Carvana.com today. From WBC Chicago, to some American Life, I'm Ira Glass.

[Brian Buffard]

Yes, we need the police to come out to Perryland Detention Center. I don't know what's going on outside. They just told me to call.

[Zoe Chase]

Okay, you don't know what's going on?

[Brian Buffard]

No, sir. I think they're doing fireworks.

[Ira Glass]

There's a 911 call on the 4th of July, a year ago, around 11pm Alvarado, Texas, about an hour outside of Dallas. The woman calling works at the Prairieland Detention Center. She had the front desk there, and she's calling because a bunch of people have suddenly shown up outside wearing black, some in masks, lined up on the other side of this long barbed wire fence. They're setting off fireworks. It's really loud. This facility is a detention center for ice full of people being held on immigration charges. Somebody in the crowd outside has a megaphone, starts calling out to the detainees inside. Esperanza, hope you are not forgotten. More fireworks go up.

[Brian Buffard]

Oh, somebody's trying to get in. Can you hurry up and send somebody? Yes, ma'. Am.

[Ira Glass]

Someone's trying to get in.

[Brian Buffard]

They outside walking the perimeter? I don't know, sir.

[Ira Glass]

Okay.

[Zoe Chase]

All right, we got him en route.

[Brian Buffard]

Okay. Call us back if anything changes. Okay, Bye. Bye. Bye.

[Ira Glass]

A police officer rushes out to the facility. Lt. Thomas Gross from the Alvarado PD. As soon as he switches on his siren, the dash cam activates in his car and his body cam turns on. He turns into the Prairie Line parking lot. Under the car headlights, you can see somebody has sprayed buck ice on a guard shack. Then as he pulls up, he sees somebody running in front of his car.

[Brian Buffard]

Hey. Stop.

[Ira Glass]

He jumps out of the car, drawing his gun in one hand, walkie talkie in the other, and this next thing happens almost immediately, just six seconds after he gets out of the car. I'm hit. He yells. He shot in the upper shoulder by his neck. He fires back three times. Shooter runs off and hides in a field. Sunflower Field, actually. They're all around the detention center. Then cops of all sorts arrive. Local police, sheriff's office, Texas Rangers. And they start arresting people. Some are on the streets, walking nonchalantly away as if they just happen to be here. They are not involved. They have backpacks, which the cops try to search.

[Zoe Chase]

Take out the goddamn backpack.

[Brian Buffard]

Cummings Down.

[Ira Glass]

If you move, you will be shot.

[Brian Buffard]

Do you understand me?

[Ira Glass]

I am taking off your backpack. Everybody's on edge because an officer's been shot. The police officer, it turned out he was not badly hurt. The bullet entered his shoulder, came out his back just below his neck. He was released from the hospital later that night. The guy who shot the cop and disappeared into the Sunflower Field, he hid there for a whole day. Eventually, some friends snuck him out. They were all caught. What happened that night on the 4th of July, one year ago, it all ended up in court. It became this major trial where two very different stories were told. The defendants say this was a protest gone wrong. Nobody was supposed to get shot. In other words, this was like tons of other anti ICE protests that had been happening all over the country outside ICE facilities where people gather and make noise to communicate with detainees. But the FBI director, Kash Patel, had a different view. Here he is talking to Fox News host Larry Kudlow. This was a coordinated planned attack by dozens of individuals to murder police officers. And Larry, a police officer was actually shot in the neck. These guys came and staged a scene at a detention center using fireworks, then brought in long guns and rifles. They were kitted out in bulletproof vests and masks and opened fire at law enforcement. Patel is confident who is behind this. This is breaking news. Larry. Just hours ago, a grand jury indicted two members of an Antifa affiliated cell. Twenty individuals have been charged so far. But the key here is for the first time, we have charged these two individuals with material support to terrorism for their involvement in Antifa. And yes, Antifa exists. It's a terrorist organization. Darian Code of the Fox host interviewing him, that made a lot of sense. So let's just. Just one more moment on that. People on the left and the far left say that Antifa doesn't exist.

[Zoe Chase]

It's a state of mind, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Ira Glass]

I mean, if they're not real, then how come two people were ignited? They have to be real. It's not a state of mind. Soon, 13 more people were charged with material support to terrorists. The indictment in this case saying this was the work of a North Texas antifa cell. This came out a month after Charlie Kirk's assassination. You may remember in that shooting, a bullet casing was etched with the words hey Fascist catch. And a big part of the administration's response back then was to target Antifa as a domestic terror group in a national security memo setting policy for the entire federal government. This Texas case with these defendants was a chance for the administration to lay out their best that Antifa is in fact a terror group operating here and now in the United States. And okay, just stepping back for a second. Right now in America, whether you believe or not that Antifa even exists is tied to a whole other set of beliefs. And just to generalize here for a second, Blue America says Antifa does not exist as an actual functioning organization. Lots of reporting backs this up and going into this trial, the administration has not been able to point to any leaders or infrastructure or any of the normal things that a terror group has. Meanwhile, Red America and right wing media say of course Antifa exists. Just look at all these activists around the country dressed in black, vandalizing stuff, wreaking havoc. How could that not be a thing? This trial in Texas, this was going to be the place where we're going to finally fight this one out in public and figure out is Antifa real? So how'd the government make the case? Was it convincing? The trial was not recorded, but that did not stop our producer Zoe Chase, who's never one to shy away from a fool's errand. She was there for three weeks in the courtroom writing down everything that happened in notebooks as the government tried to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, she got to know one of these supposed terrorists who is a hard to describe mix of being a longtime church lady married to a guy who loved Dungeons and Dragons. Her nom de guerre was candied dynamite. We heard the arguments, we heard the counter arguments. We heard the verdicts all this hour. Stay with us. Support for this American Life comes from Schwab. Self Directed Investing, Trading, Full Service Wealth Management, Automated Investing, Financial Planning, Thematic Investing, Retirement planning. And to think that's just a small taste of what Schwab offers. Because Schwab knows that when it comes to your finances, choice matters. No matter your goals, investing style, life, stage or experience, Schwab has everything you need all in one place so you can invest your way. Visit schwab.com to learn more support for this podcast and the following message come from Strawberry Me.

[Zoe Chase]

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[Ira Glass]

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[Ira Glass]

this is American Life. Act one, the trial. Okay, so from the start, this trial was pretty unusual. For starters, they had a hard time convening a jury. Lots of potential jurors either had strong opinions about ICE or about protesters or about antifa. And on day one, the judge, who's a bit of an intense character, called a mistrial because of a shirt that one of the defense attorneys was wearing. So they had to start the entire thing over, this time without giving attorneys a chance to question potential jurors. We did a little story about this on our show a couple months ago. And the judge also decided to move the trial upstairs into his courtroom, the courtroom he's accustomed to, a much smaller room. I'll let Zoe take things from here. Here's Zoe Chase.

[Zoe Chase]

The courtroom was packed. Nine defendants, each with, like two lawyers. So a lot of lawyers, plus the prosecution, plus everyone else, reporters and family members and law students and interested observers all jostling a little fighting. The court sketch artist sat basically on my right knee on the first day with his huge easel spread out in front of us like a sail. Judge Pittman likes to open trial days with little homilies. He says, I urge you all to remember the saying from General Patton, this will be our watchword for the trial. You cannot be disciplined in the great things and undisciplined in the small things. The judge wants things done a certain way. Once you find your seat, he says, stay in it. So we begin. The prosecutors make their opening statement saying this was an antifa attack. They are career government prosecutors in the Northern District of Texas. They are matter of fact and colorless. And then the defense gets to make their opening arguments. And they're all showmen to one degree or another. They make their case over and over because nine defendants. This was just a protest, they said, that went off the rails. The prosecution starts rolling out its evidence the next day in pretty dramatic fashion. They wheel in a cart full of boxes like an Amazon delivery. The boxes were tall and skinny, looked like someone had ordered a bunch of curtains. I didn't know what was in them. They bring in a parade of law enforcement to walk through everything they found that night. Each item entered into evidence. The officers walked through body camera footage and dash camera footage of the defendants being arrested. And searched, and the cops finding a lot on them. Take this one minivan. They'd stop this van not long after the shooting. The side windows down, gun on the ground. There's a pistol on the floor of the car. The driver, Megan Morris, has her hand on the steering wheel. She looks miserable. She's dressed all in black, long gray hair and glasses. She also has a loaded mag in her pocket.

[Ira Glass]

Is there any other guns in the car?

[Zoe Chase]

There's some in the back seat. In the back seat. In the back seat, we see an AR15.

[Brian Buffard]

What the.

[Zoe Chase]

They're clearing the guns of ammo and piling them up on the hood of the car, one on top of the other. There's body armor, loaded magazines, another AR15 in the trunk. I just hang out right here. This is just like a straight coordinated terror attack on the ICE detention facility. We got like six people, trauma kids, plates, ars, all sorts of stuff.

[Brian Buffard]

So just hang out. Bro. What the.

[Ira Glass]

Dude, this is crazy.

[Brian Buffard]

Bro. This is like a straight coordinated terror

[Zoe Chase]

attack on Prairie Land. I know, dude. This recording where the officers are like, bro, this is a terrorist attack. It was a point of contention in the trial. The defense tried to get it excluded, arguing the officer's comments could bias the jury. That's just their random opinion that this was terrorism. The judge was like, well, what they genuinely thought in the moment, seeing what they were seeing is relevant. I'll allow it. So this is what the boxes were. Every time the officers had to introduce a new piece of evidence, they shook a gun out of a cardboard box. Guns started to pile up around the small courtroom. Semiautomatic rifles and pistols and Glocks alongside body armor, trauma kits and mags. In the top margin above my notes, I just have a star and the words, all these guns, it looks bad for the defense. I also have notes on family members looking freaked out and upset. One of the sisters of a defendant keeps whispering, what's going on? Like, why isn't the defense doing more to object to all this stuff? A few stickers make it into evidence, too. Make America not exist again, one of them says. The defense gets up, and the way one of the lawyers explains the guns is like, come on, this is Texas. We all have these. These are all legal guns. And these people have guns for a reason. When out protesting, the lawyers argue, these guys encounter counter protesters on the right who are armed. So they're armed. They often bring them. Most importantly, they point out the guns in that van. They never left the van. Now they are forced to say this while standing In a courtroom sort of ridiculously filled with firearms and ammunition, even in Texas, this has got to be a little much. It's like an armory. One of the defense attorneys later said to me, yeah, would it have been better if they just had bells and whistles? If their intent was just to make noise, would it have been better if they weren't dressed like they were storming the Bastille? Yes, it would have. This brings me to Act 2. I'm going to call Act 2, the expert. So one of the main ways the prosecution was going to try to show this was an antifa terrorist cell was by calling an antifa expert to the stand. There's going to be a key moment in the trial. I reached out to the antifa expert to talk and the prosecutors bringing him on and neither got back to me. But some of the defense attorneys did. They love to talk about this case, especially as it turns out, the guy who was going to lead the cross examination of the antifa expert, Patrick McLean. McLean and I meet up most days after court at the hotel bar. The day he was going over his prep for the antifa expert, we were at a nicer place, the Fort Worth Club downtown. It's members only. You have to ring a doorbell to get in. McClain's not a member. He just has a friend who is. I find them in the back corner.

[Brian Buffard]

Y' all need anything else?

[Zoe Chase]

I'm gonna keep picking, but no, I don't. Well, you know what? I'll have another Guinness. Another Guinness. I'll have another Guinness. He says. Patrick McLean is as Irish Chicagoan looking as his name. Big and burly, 67 years old. He looks like the Marine that he is. His text messages are set to auto sign off. Semper fi, Patrick. He's a former Republican, a devout Catholic. He has 10 kids. He's a regular at the March for life every year. Tonight he's also brought along his own terrorism expert, someone he plans to bring as a witness. A woman named Ann Speckart. He and Speckart are going to hammer out the best way to do discredit the government's antifa guy. Ann Speckard stands out here a bit. She's definitely the only person in the Fort Worth club with a flowery hair clip, almost counterculture looking. She's a terrorism scholar. She studied ISIS and Al Qaeda and other groups. She's worked with the UN and NATO and other international organizations. So are you going to take the stands? Are you just helping him prep? Okay, yeah. There's a 95% chance she'll take the stand. Only reason she wouldn't take the stand is if he was just totally so horrible that. Yeah, wouldn't need you.

[Brian Buffard]

Yeah.

[Zoe Chase]

If the government's antifa expert is so terrible that he needs no rebuttal, there'll be no need for Ann to take the stand. They don't expect that. Just while we wait for our drinks here, I'll explain who the government antifa expert is. His name is Kyle Scheidler. Bald and quite literally eggheaded. He sits with the prosecution every day. He works for the center for Security Policy, a think tank in D.C. that truthfully is most known for advocating conspiracy theories about Muslims. Or I guess if you believe those theories, then as brave truth tellers. Scheidler has advocated for the government to treat antifa as a terrorist group. And in the last six years, Scheidler's trained cops all over the country in what he calls the antifa threat. He's also testified before Congress. So the question is, how are they going to deal with this guy when he takes the stand?

[Brian Buffard]

So where are we going with this?

[Zoe Chase]

Ann Speckard has a bunch of questions they can ask him on the stand, which he's written out, like, how does one join Antifa? Is there a membership list? Are there dues? Is there a leadership structure? An oath? The basic stuff terrorist groups have.

[Brian Buffard]

Because if you join ISIS back in

[Zoe Chase]

the time of when they had their caliphate, and even now, you hold your

[Brian Buffard]

hand up and you give your bayah, your pledge of allegiance, to whoever the

[Zoe Chase]

caliph is, if you're joining a group, she says, you probably know you're joining. Group. There's no group here.

[Brian Buffard]

Can you show me the antifa groups? I mean, if he asks me about Hamas, I can tell him how you get into Hamas, what you do when you're in Hamas, where the Hamas website is, that actually says Hamas, but with Antifa, he just talks amorphously, like these autonomous groups. But there's all kinds of autonomous groups.

[Zoe Chase]

Groups. The US Government disagrees, of course, that antifa does not meet the definition of a terrorist group. Patrick McLean announces he's going to mulch on all this and go get some shut eye. He says he's been sleeping in his Dallas office lately, As though they're building the hype. The government saves their antifa expert. For the last few days of the trial, everyone watching has been waiting for him to take the stand. Finally, Kyle Scheidler takes his place in the witness box. So what is Antifa? The prosecutor asks. Scheidler really begins at the beginning, the word antifa is actually a contraction of sorts, he says. An abbreviated contraction, which is a common German phenomenon. Stands for anti fascist action and it stems from the Weimar Republic in Germany. This goes on for quite a while. In the middle of a section about the history of fighting with the police over the autonomous squats of West Germany, the judge tries to hurry him along. No offense to the professor, he says, but this isn't the place for a lecture. Scheidler, who's not a professor, seems incapable of following the judge's instruction not to lecture. I fill a notebook with Antifa's post war rise. Basically. Finally we get into the present day and these defendants. Scheidler ticks through the classic hallmarks that show this group is what he calls antifa. He talks about how before that night everyone communicated over signal, an example of operational security opsec. And that night they all went out dressed in black. Another common tactic of Antifa, he says, called black block, originally known as der Schwartze block. He says the idea is if everyone dresses in black, the police can't tell who's who or who did what after an operation. The antifa tactic is to take off the black clothing and blend back in, he says. The prosecutor mentions that one defendant had tied his long sleeved black shirt around his waist when he was arrested a few miles away. And that's an example of de blocking, if you will? He asks. Yes, says Scheidler, that's. That's what I would expect to see. Then there's the book club. Scheidler spends some time on this book club that some of the defendants were in, the Emma Goldman Book Club. Emma Goldman was a famous anarchist from the early 1900s, he says. This is sort of an antifa front, the above ground part of the organization. Scheidler says anytime you're a clandestine organization, that is an organization that cannot recruit openly. Like maybe they don't admit they exist. You have to find a way to recruit other people with which you have a shared ideology. Shidler lists off some of these zines. The book club was reading classics of an anarchist library like I don't bash back, I shoot first and Destroying White Nationalism. And what about these red and black flags found rolled up in one of the garages? The prosecutor asks. When they introduced the flags as evidence, an FBI agent stood up with the flags to demonstrate how they'd be hung if they'd been hung, which they weren't. He waved them wildly at the jury like it was the finish line at nascar. Scheidler explains yes, that's an antifa flag. The red and black is iconography related to the Spanish Civil War, when the anarchists were engaged in direct action against the fascists. Finally, it's Patrick Maclean's moment. Time for cross examination. McLean approaches, asks some questions about Scheidler's credentials for this, pointing out he's never held a position at a college or a university. He's never published a peer reviewed paper. Then he gets to this. McLean, there is no national leadership of Antifa, is there? Scheidler? It would be inconsistent with their ideology. Is that a no? It would be inconsistent with their ideology. So they do not. No. Okay. They don't have membership roles. It would be inconsistent with their ideology. So no. Just for the sake of efficiency, if there is a yes or no answer, could you lead with that? Sure. Okay. Thank you. And no dues or hierarchy in anything that you would call antifa, right? No, they're opposed to it. If I were to summarize how Scheidler's seeing this, I think he's saying Antifa is not a typical terrorist organization with leaders or membership lists or headquarters because it's anarchist. They don't like organizations. They operate as affinity groups. McClain points out, however, that none of the defendants ever refer to themselves as antifa in their own private signal chats. Scheidler says they don't think about groups and organizations. That's what's counter to their ideology. From McClain's point of view, that's crazy. Scheidler's saying the fact that they don't say they are antifa is the proof that they're antifa. And if there really was a plan to shoot police officers, as the government says, a plan to destroy government property with fireworks, if this plan really existed, why isn't that in the signal chats? Did anybody talk about harming another person? McClain asks. Scheidler says, I would expect the discussions of that type of to take place person to person and not necessarily appear in an encrypted chat. Then another defense attorney comes up and circles back to some of the other zines and stickers that have come up like Be Gay, Do Crime and acab. All Cops are Bastards. Typical antifa. Scheidler says there was also a zine on horticulture. That attorney points out foraging in Horticulture. Yes, says Scheidler, so what? Gardening is part of the antifa platform? Not as such, Shidler says, but it's consistent with a community defense approach. The judge speaks up. He sounds mad again. Just because I own a Copy of Mein Kampf doesn't make me a fascist or a Nazi, does it? Not unless it's consistent with your other behavior. Scheidler says, what if I own a copy of Das Kapital? Does that make me a communist? Not unless it's consistent with your other behavior. What about a copy of the Vantage Point by Lyndon Johnson? Does that make me a Democrat? No, sir. Not unless it's consistent with your other behavior. If I own antifa literature, that doesn't make me an anti fascist necessarily, does it? I hope not, sir. I have quite a bit of it myself. The judge's impatience made Scheidler's testimony play sort of ridiculous in the room. Sometimes, I thought. Every so often I look at the jury. It's a pretty mixed group, old and young, white and Hispanic, men and women, mostly expressionless, sometimes sleepy. One day, one of them came in in a Darth Vader sweatshirt. Why? Who knows? I never can read them. Outside this courtroom, the Trump administration is making all sorts of big claims about Antifa. The national security memo that instructs government agencies to treat Antifa as a domestic terror group, a major national security priority. Claims Antifa is this big organized network with institutional funds. This violence, it says, does not emerge organically. Presidential aide Stephen Miller has said, it is structured, it is sophisticated, it is well funded, it is well planned. So it's fascinating to see that once they got to court, they dropped all that. Shidler and the government never tried to present any evidence showing some kind of national coordination or structure or planning or funding. Scheidler did point to a crowdfunding link tree at one point. Instead, what the government argues is that the defendants all do things that come from a sort of anarchist playbook. Wearing dark clothes, reading anarchist literature. And that's what makes the Antifa. The people within the group don't have to join a group or say they're in a group or maybe even know that they're in a group at all to be in Antifa. I walked outside. It was a beautiful Texas spring day, and people are in a good mood. Across from the courthouse, there's a little demonstration in support of the defendants every day, mostly sympathetic activists and friends. A hand painted banner that says Show Trial is draped across the trees, and there are little tables of zines and free vegan food.

[Brian Buffard]

Free zines.

[Zoe Chase]

When court's over, the families spill across the street to talk about what happened inside. Sometimes they feel like talking to us, sometimes they don't. Today, Antifa Expert Day. They feel great. Some lawyers also felt great they'd actually been on a high for a few days.

[Brian Buffard]

Now we have half the government's case in and we've been basically kicking their ass.

[Zoe Chase]

This is Brian Buffard. He's co counsel to Patrick McClain on this case. You guys are pretty confident right now.

[Brian Buffard]

I can't even say we're. Because nobody knows what a jury's gonna do. Right. But my feeling is the government has made a lot of mistakes. Their witnesses have made a lot of mistakes. And the way that that has come out I think is pretty favorable.

[Zoe Chase]

Brian Buffard's a former Navy jag. He defended someone accused of terrorism before, a prisoner at Guantanamo who'd been tortured for years at CIA black sites. He is deeply suspicious of the government and this trial really bothers him. It's a prime example to him, the DOJ becoming a tool for punishing people who disagree with the President.

[Brian Buffard]

I've got a lot tied up in this for me. I find the corruption of the justice system to be just, just horribly, psychologically painful to see going on.

[Zoe Chase]

That you're so freaked out by what's happening to the Justice Department. Freaked out is not the word.

[Brian Buffard]

Furious is the word. What is going on right now with the Justice Department is unspeakable in my view.

[Zoe Chase]

That's why he wants to win this case so badly. Now, the antifa expert, that part went well. He thought for his side. So well, in fact, that they end up not calling up their own expert at all. They never put their terrorism scholar Ann Speckart from the bar on the stand. But the government had another, maybe more powerful argument for the existence of antifa, which I'll tell you about when we come back.

[Ira Glass]

Zoe Chase. Coming up after the break, we hear from an alleged member of this alleged terror cell. And she seems very different from what the government says she is. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues. Support for this American Life comes from Schwab. Self Directed Investing, Trading, Full Service Wealth Management, Automated Investing, Financial Planning, Finance, Thematic Investing, Retirement Planning. And to think that's just a small taste of what Schwab offers. Because Schwab knows that when it comes to your finances, choice matters. No matter your goals, investing style, life stage or experience, Schwab has everything you need all in one place so you can invest your way. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

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[Ira Glass]

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[Ira Glass]

this is American Life from Hourglass. Today's program the Test Case. We're devoting the whole hour to this first of its kind trial of people that the government says are part of an antifa cell on charges that could send them to prison for decades. We've arrived at act three of our show, act three, the cooperator. Okay, so originally 16 people were charged in this case. Nine of them went on trial and the other seven they pled guilty to material support to terrorists. They admitted this in the documents that are part of their plea agreements. Some of them signed statements agreeing that what happened outside the detention center was an act of terrorism carried out by an antifa cell. And the people involved that night adhered to an anarchist antifa ideology. That of course seemed good for the government's case. Also, five of them appeared in court to testify for the prosecution. One of the five in particular stood out to Zoe. This was a woman named Lynette Sharp. She was older than a lot of the others, 57 years old. And just to say what her involvement was in all this, she was not at the detention center that night. She had planned to go, but then she couldn't make it. But remember how the guy who shot the cop hid in a sunflower field the whole night and then eventually got snuck out by a couple friends? That was Lynette. She fished him out of the field and then hid him from the cops. The authorities tracked her down a few days later, arrested her. She's been locked up since and she agreed to talk to Zoe again. Here's Zoe Chase.

[Zoe Chase]

When the cooperators appeared in court, they were brought in in prison stripes. They mostly seemed to be in some degree of anguish over what they were doing testifying against their friends. It was Hard to sit through. There was something about Lynette, though. She was chatty. It seemed like she couldn't help it. Kind of. She knew so much about these people's lives. At one point, she had said that three of the defendants were in a throuple. Not a word I expected to hear in the Northern District of Texas, I guess. But then also when the prosecutor had her id, the defendants, one by one, she broke down in tears. They were lined up right in front of her. I love them, she said to the prosecutor. So I went to talk to her. I wanted to know what this group might have looked like on the inside. And I wanted to know how she'd gotten to this point in her life. Pleading guilty to a terrorism charge. I drove out there with her lawyer, Aaron. You go through a bunch of nothing. And then there's the jail. Long, low buildings, barbed wire around a couple Texas flags flying. And Erin takes me inside.

[Ira Glass]

Hello.

[Brian Buffard]

Can I help you all?

[Zoe Chase]

I am here for an attorney Visit to see Ms. Lynette Sharp. And she's with me. They lead us into a small room. There's a big clear plastic divider cutting it down the middle. A guard opens the door on the other side of the divider and brings Lynette in. She's in the orange and white prison stripes. There was a small speaker stuck into the plastic that we talked through. Hey.

[Brian Buffard]

Hi.

[Zoe Chase]

I want to ask how you are.

[Brian Buffard]

You know I can't complain. If I did, who would listen? Well, I'm asking. I'm okay.

[Zoe Chase]

Yeah, I had my mic pointed at the wrong part of the speaker. It'll get better later. Sorry about that. When Lynette was arrested, she had spiky pink hair. Now it's a gray ponytail. She has glasses and hearing aids. I have to say, I talk to people a lot about their politics for my job. Why do you believe the things you do? It's never simple. It's built over their lifetime. There's not one thing that leads you to it. I feel like I need to do something a little unusual here, which is tell you Lynette's story from the beginning. So I want to start this part of the story here. Alleged antifa cell terrorist at age 5. Lynette grew up outside Fort Worth in the early 70s. She was a tomboy. Played dirt clad wars in the streets. She rode bikes and the neighbors horses. She liked being out of the house because the situation in the house wasn't good. Her parents fought a lot, drank a lot. They even tried to kill each other. A couple of times. Her mom shot her dad twice. He survived.

[Brian Buffard]

She tried to poison him several times, too. My parents were fighters, and that's where I get my fighting spirit, I think. Wow.

[Zoe Chase]

And so how did she try to poison him? And how did you even know that happened?

[Brian Buffard]

My mother never hid anything from us. She used Miracle Grove and put it in his beer. Didn't work. And I don't remember what she used the other time.

[Zoe Chase]

Lynette didn't want to stick around.

[Ira Glass]

She.

[Zoe Chase]

She got together with this guy and moved out of state, and they had a kid together. But it was a similar relationship to her mom and dad's. As much as she thought she was nothing like them. She was feeling sort of Miracle grow in his beer herself. It scared her. She moved back with her parents, moved out again, and eventually left that guy. At this point, she gets really into church. Something about it really appealed to her being part of a group, maybe because she says she just never felt a part of her family at all. And Lynette is a people person. This is the first big group that she dives into, the church.

[Brian Buffard]

I went to church constantly. I found a church and was there every time the doors were open and just really immersed myself in that.

[Zoe Chase]

It was Pentecostal, but women could wear pants, which she liked. Things calmed. She met another guy, a clean, non abusive, nice guy named Marshall. Nerdy, Played Dungeons and Dragons and video games. They got married, and at first, she says it was great. But slowly, even though this was a really different relationship from her first one, it also began to feel like a trap to Lynette. She already had one kid. Then her husband's kids came to live with them, and she got pregnant. And right then, her husband kind of disappeared into his computer.

[Brian Buffard]

And that's when it got to be too much. I started really having a hard time with everything.

[Zoe Chase]

She called the pastor's wife for advice.

[Brian Buffard]

She did tell me. When I told her what was going on, she said, why are you doing all of this? Because I was doing everything. She said, why aren't they doing this and that? They can do their own laundry, they can make their own lunches. And I'm like, I just thought that's what I was supposed to be doing. And she said, no.

[Zoe Chase]

Like, that's what the housewife does kind of thing.

[Brian Buffard]

Yes. And so she kind of gave me permission to say, hey, I'm not doing this anymore.

[Zoe Chase]

After that, she says, they started living separate lives side by side. There are many more dramatic chapters of Lynette's life lived in these bright Intense strokes. Her daughter gets pregnant. At 16, she figures out that one of her step kids is abusing her daughters. Eventually, her stepson is arrested. She ends up taking in a kid who's severely autistic and raising them. And Lynette and her husband come together to deal with these crises and then grow apart again. They get close for a while when they join a new group of all things. It's a motorcycle club. This is another turning point. Lynette gets really into the motorcycle club. It was a motorcycle club of Marines. Her husband served in the Marines and he got really into it too. Kind of got him out of his

[Brian Buffard]

depression and it helped him a lot. Made him want to be a more functioning person for them and for me. And then for the X rated portion of our show, we found out that we liked different sex than we'd been having.

[Zoe Chase]

You found that out together?

[Brian Buffard]

It was kind of a. It was a weird thing. A lady in the club posted something on Facebook about something about a sexual thing. And I commented on it and Marshall texted me immediately and said, did you mean that? And I said yes. And so we started talking and that made us realize we'd been having sex wrong the whole time.

[Zoe Chase]

I mean, I want to ask, like, what you mean, but you don't have to get into it.

[Brian Buffard]

We liked sex that wasn't vanilla.

[Zoe Chase]

Uh huh.

[Ira Glass]

Right.

[Zoe Chase]

You liked more hardcore things.

[Brian Buffard]

Yeah.

[Zoe Chase]

And you found that out because this woman posted something and you commented and he texted you.

[Brian Buffard]

Yes. Wow. Facebook.

[Zoe Chase]

Lynette was still going to church, but now in her Sons of Anarchy T shirt. They didn't know what to make of her and Lynette's next chapter of self realization. Maybe you saw this coming. She's watching Amber Heard in this movie, the Rum Diary, and realizes actually she's always liked girls. And she gives Marshall an ultimatum.

[Brian Buffard]

Either I can smoke weed in the garage or we're having an open relationship. One of those. Cause I'm losing my mind here. I need relief. I need, like, fun.

[Zoe Chase]

He wasn't happy with either option at first, but then he got what she was asking.

[Brian Buffard]

Really? I want to explore having sex with women. I've never been able to explore my sexuality in that way. And he said, oh, well, that's fine, because men. Because men, yeah. And so then we would go out on dates and look at women together.

[Zoe Chase]

That was a high point. Lynette is a person who goes all the way when she's into something. But however hot Amber heard is in the Rum Diary, in Lynette's mind, Lynette is still a church lady in suburban Texas. She's a conservative at this point in Lynette's story, it's 2011, 2012, and she's paying more attention to the news now more than she. She used to. And Barack Obama is running for office again.

[Brian Buffard]

I remember when Obama was elected for the second time, I cried. I thought we were all going to be under Shariah law anytime. Like that's what our that so many people in my life felt that way. And the pizza gate stuff was going on then.

[Zoe Chase]

And did you believe in that?

[Brian Buffard]

I did.

[Zoe Chase]

Lynette didn't like Trump either, though. Things like that grabbed them by the pussytape. No, thank you. And it wasn't long before basically, presidential politics kind of caught up to her personal politics, which is true for a lot of people. Right. National politics became intertwined with people's actual identities. The MeToo movement was a thing for her. Oh, and also around then, I went to college.

[Brian Buffard]

Forgot that part.

[Zoe Chase]

Then there's the repeal of Roe v. Wade that happened. She was fighting with her friends and family over it.

[Brian Buffard]

Right. When Roe v. Wade, they were going to get rid of Roe v. Wade. And I knew it and I knew it was coming. And then I'm like, this is bad. And people were like, you're just blowing it all up out of proportion.

[Zoe Chase]

But you were starting to find yourself on a little bit of a different planet than the people around you.

[Brian Buffard]

Yes.

[Zoe Chase]

In 2022, she started going to protests for the first time. There's something very only in America about Lynette's life. I think how fast it moved, how many eras she went through embodying each one. I kept thinking of this old article from Ms. Magazine from 1972 by Jane O'Reilly. It was called Click the Housewife's Moment of Truth about all these realizations women were having about things they didn't actually have to do. We are all housewives. We'd prefer to be persons. The article said. A year before Roe, Lynette was that housewife.

[Brian Buffard]

Click.

[Zoe Chase]

Decades later, here she is on her own motorcycle checking out girls with her husband. And then Roe is struck down. And it feels personal. Lynette has come to truly hate the idea of men controlling women. That's how she saw it. It's around this time when she finds her last club. It's a group of people in the Dallas Fort Worth area. She meets them through a local LGBT center. They do self defense classes. Some of them are in a book club, the Emma Goldman Book Club, where they Read radical literature and zines. Many of them are part of a local gun club, the Socialist Rifle association, where they do target practice and learn about gun safety. Soon she was spending most of her time with them. How did that happen that they became your closest friends?

[Brian Buffard]

Well, they were the ones that, you know in person life. I mean, I didn't have a job. A lot of these people didn't have jobs. We don't love capitalism. And a lot of them are so very neurodivergent that they just couldn't work. A lot of them were younger. And, yeah, it felt like. It felt amazing to know that there were other people that actually cared about something other than themselves that were willing to, you know, help other people for free. I mean, they gave their time. We met the homeless. We helped disabled people. I would lead meditations because I love meditation. And they taught me how to eat vegan food that wasn't horrible.

[Zoe Chase]

This, of course, is the alleged antifa cell that's on trial. There were so many ways to be in a group in this group, and Lynette loves groups like that gun club, for instance. A few people in the group were transgender. There was a sort of ethos around, like, if people who hate us have guns, we're going to have guns. Lynette got super into that, joined the member welfare committee. Lynette also joined a writing group. They called themselves the Resistance writers. They had a lot of potlucks, obviously, and karaoke nights. What did you sing?

[Brian Buffard]

It was the best times we had. I sang everything. I sang so many things I love Pink Wild hearts can't be broken. I told them that used to be. I think a lot of people think of that. And I used to as a song from like in a personal relationship. But to me, it was like my love song to the world that we are going to. We're not going to be broken, that we're going to keep fighting. And if you look at the lyrics, it's just. It's a great song.

[Zoe Chase]

It was like she was having a sort of love affair, but with a bunch of ideas. One person in particular she grew really close to was Bet, whom everyone called Champagne Song. Champagne went by any all pronouns with this group of people. During the trial, most people used he him, including his lawyer, and I'll do the same in this group. A lot of people looked up to him. He was really into self defense. He taught martial arts to many of them. He taught gun safety to many of them. With the Socialist Rifle association. He. He went to a lot of protests. He'd been in the Marines. He was soft spoken, but very confident. Song was the one that night who would fire the shot that hit the police officer. What was your relationship like with Ben with champagne?

[Brian Buffard]

It was very close. I remember telling him that, you know, he was my best friend and all this shit that we were going through, really. I know that I wasn't his best friend, but I don't know, I just felt very close to him. I admired him. I respected him a lot. It wasn't a perfect person going to their house. It was a mess. You know, these kids are. And I do think of those kids a lot. I don't mean to. I don't mean to, you know, denigrate them or anything, but they were. I learned so much from them. But at the same time, they're so young and sometimes their lives weren't working very well. And so it just, you know, it's a lot easier sometimes to focus on the world's problems than your own.

[Zoe Chase]

Yeah.

[Brian Buffard]

And so I did that a lot. I think a lot of us did.

[Zoe Chase]

Lynette was investing so much in this group of people and pulling away from the family stuff that frustrated her, like finding services for her autistic kid for. For instance. She tried and tried, and it kept not working. She stopped trying. She and her husband were back to living separate lives.

[Brian Buffard]

I remember I was on the way home from something, like at 2 in the morning one night, and I was thinking about what I was doing the next day, some other thing we were going to do. And I was like, I. For the first time in my life, I'm doing what I want to do with my time. I'd never really been free like that before. And it didn't last long, did it?

[Zoe Chase]

Now we are at that night, July 4, 2025, when everything happened. Lynette had been in some of the signal chats where people were making plans. But that night, her husband and her daughter were fighting some kind of a breakdown. Felt like she needed to be at home. She was awake when people started messaging, trying to figure out what had happened. She heard people had gotten arrested. She heard a cop had been shot.

[Brian Buffard]

On one hand, I must have known, but I didn't know. Like, I think I'd already read the reports that were out saying there'd been a. But I just didn't believe it.

[Zoe Chase]

An officer involved shooting.

[Brian Buffard]

Yeah. I just thought and I didn't know. I just knew I needed to go. So if I could help anyone, I wanted to go help.

[Zoe Chase]

I guess I just have a hard time Understanding why it was so unbelievable if, like, he did have a gun there. Like, isn't that sort of, like it is believable that he would shoot someone if he had a gun? Right.

[Brian Buffard]

If he did, it was because of something had happened. Either it was, like, unavoidable, you know, I didn't know. I just knew that I couldn't imagine that happening for no reason. Like, there had to have been something that went wrong.

[Zoe Chase]

Then the next day, Lynette gets a message from Song. He was still hiding in the sunflower fields near the detention facility. Could she help get him out? He had his phone in a Faraday bag, which blocks your cell phone signal so you can't be tracked. A lot of defendants brought those that night, which was more evidence the prosecution pointed to, that they were a terrorist cell. Ben kept taking his phone out to message Lynette, which I have to say, does defeat the point of the bag.

[Brian Buffard]

I did. I knew. And he told me, I've done a very dangerous thing. And I said, I know. I love you, friend.

[Zoe Chase]

Why do you think he messaged you in particular?

[Brian Buffard]

I don't know. I think because he knew that I would be there for him, that I felt kind of unanchored in my own life, that I was, you know, pretty much lived for the cause or for my friends, and that I would. I would help him.

[Zoe Chase]

Lynette and this other guy pick up Song at the side of the road. He's dirty, he's hungry, dehydrated, freaked out, doesn't know where to go. Lynette and some others helped get him set up in an apartment someone was cat sitting in.

[Brian Buffard]

I mean, of course, at that point, we knew we were doing something very, very dangerous and very wrong. I don't know why we thought we could get away with it. But then I went home after that, and for the next four days, I don't think I did much of anything. I just laid in bed and I don't remember.

[Zoe Chase]

Did you know in those four days, like, oh, my time, this community, this chapter, this era is over?

[Brian Buffard]

I don't know. I really, really wasn't thinking. I know that sounds crazy, but I just think I disassociated for most of the four days.

[Zoe Chase]

Eventually, they came. Law enforcement raided her house, arrested her. It was dramatic. She says they rolled a big tank like thing up onto her lawn. Lynette was charged with providing material support to terrorists. In jail, she faced a big decision. Should she cooperate, plead guilty, and help the government, that would give her the best chance of a shorter Sentence, of course, that would go against everything. She and her activist friends were all about to talk to the feds. But of course, there was another huge consideration, one that actually surprised her after she got arrested.

[Brian Buffard]

All of this affected my family a lot more than I thought it would. We'd all been so distant for so long. I kind of felt like I was, you know, they wouldn't miss me much. That turned out not to be true.

[Zoe Chase]

Lynette's family both needed and wanted her back. Her husband, Marshall, was devastated. Her daughter was suicidal. Her autistic kid, Marshall, was moved to Austin to live with her other daughter.

[Brian Buffard]

They were fighting, and it was just really chaos at home.

[Zoe Chase]

She was despondent over what to do.

[Brian Buffard]

And I just was in my cell just going over, I can't do this. I can't talk, I can't plead. I can't like that. I'd be a snitch. I'd be a traitor. My family was begging me to do it.

[Zoe Chase]

She tried to channel in her head what song would say. And where she finally ended up is that she thought he would understand what she had to do. She had to get out of as much trouble as she could. So Lynette's lawyer started to talk with the government about a plea deal. And Lynette was fine with talking about all the details of that night, everything she had done. But there was one sticking point. At what point did they start talking to you about Antifa and what did you make of that?

[Brian Buffard]

Right away, and I'm like, I am anti fascist. I said, there's no group called Antifa. I said, but I am anti fascist. I said, I don't like fascists. And if you do. Well, I think that's when Aaron interrupted me. I was about to call him a fascist.

[Zoe Chase]

Aaron, Lynette's lawyer, was there. During all these little talks, the government seemed fixated on getting her to say she'd been part of an antifa cell. They proposed the following language. Lynette Reed Sharp adhered to an antifa revolutionary, anarchist or autonomous Marxist ideology that is anti law enforcement, anti immigration enforcement, and calls for the overthrow of the US Government, law enforcement authorities, and system of law. Antifa is a militant enterprise. One cooperator did agree to that, and in fact, read it out loud in the courtroom. Lynette was like, no way. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna perjure myself.

[Brian Buffard]

We weren't a terrorist group. It was really just a protest. It was a noise demonstration, which I told them from the very beginning that there's no antifa group that we're just a group of friends that were going to a protest.

[Zoe Chase]

Yes, they read anarchist zines and philosophy and went to a shooting range and they were serious about it. But at the same time, Lynette says there was some element of playing dress up to the whole thing with all the accoutrements that went along with it. The government proposed new language about antifa cells. Lynette and her lawyer again said no. Here's the language they finally ended up with. Lynette Sharpe adhered to an anti fascist, anti ice. Anti government ideology. She was fine with that part, quote, which the government classifies as antifa. So she's not saying there was an antifa or that she was part of it, but she agrees that the government thinks there is no other. Cooperator's plea agreement is so pointed. As part of the deal, she'd get a maximum of 15 years in prison and wouldn't be charged with anything other than material support. She could maybe get a lower sentence recommendation from. From the government to the judge, depending on how helpful her testimony was to their case. The day she was taken into court to testify, Lynette was completely on her own. The bailiff let her in with a chain around her waist. What was it like to walk into the courtroom and see them?

[Brian Buffard]

Oh, it was hard. I mean, I couldn't see them very well when they were seated. Yeah, I could see song immediately. And I could tell from his face that he just didn't hate me. His face. I felt like he was. He was definitely trying to convey to me that he was. He didn't hate me. He was very open faced, very smiling, very, you know, and no one else had any emotion. And then I got emotional, of course. And then the prosecutor asked, you know, you're getting emotional. Why is that? I'm like, because I love them. And he said, they're your friends. And I said, yes. And if I'd have been quick on my feet, I would have said, probably not anymore. I didn't think about that until after. But it was emotional. It was hard.

[Zoe Chase]

Why? What was the hard part about it?

[Brian Buffard]

Just because I do love them and I am afraid that they are angry at me for talking. And I guess I had hoped to see a little bit of warmness or something that I didn't see from anyone other than the song.

[Zoe Chase]

When Lynette spoke, even though she was a witness for the prosecution, I have to say a lot of what she said. It really seemed to support the defense's narrative of what Happened. This was just a book club. This was just a protest. She said, quote, they think we are an organization, I guess, called antifa. We are not.

[Brian Buffard]

I thought, I can't really help Song anymore, but I thought I could help the rest of them.

[Zoe Chase]

The other cooperators, all in their own ways, to varying degrees, undermined the idea that this was an antifa plot. They testified they were surprised someone got shot. They testified the plan had had been to set off fireworks. One of them testified that right after Ben Song shot the cop, Song raced past him in the dark holding his rifle, yelling, oh shit. Oh fuck. Oh shit. Oh fuck. And then he ditched the rifle and ran off, which seemed like something you might yell if you had not meant to shoot a cop. None of it seemed great for the prosecution's case. Which brings us to. To the last act. Act four, the verdict. So here we are at the end and the defense team that I've been hanging out with is psyched. After the cooperators testified and the antifa expert, who they think maybe isn't an expert, they felt very confident that the government did not prove their case. They were so confident after the prosecution rested, the defense rested too. They didn't put on a case at all. As usual. I was hanging out with Patrick at the end of that day.

[Ira Glass]

So what'd you think of today, my friend?

[Zoe Chase]

Y' all did it. You rested, didn't call a single witness, Right?

[Ira Glass]

That is.

[Brian Buffard]

That is a factual statement.

[Zoe Chase]

I was looking for something more analytical and incisive. I mean, it's either brilliant or it's a colossal mistake, right? I don't know which it is. By deciding to rest, they were sending a signal to the jury about how weak the government's case was. All the defense lawyers agreed to the move. Things had gone so well for them, there was nothing to add. And bringing their own case risked opening the defendants up to new lines of attack from the government. Closing statements happen the next day. The prosecution repeats what they've been saying for weeks. At one point they put up their own Venn diagram. Antifa. The Emma Goldman Book Club, the Socialist Rifle association, all overlapping at the words direct militant action. The delivery is dry and emotionless. The defense is the opposite. They're at a high Atticus Finch Inherit the Wind level. It was exciting to watch. It was like watching the climactic scene of a movie over and over, written by different authors. Fireworks on the Fourth of July. Brian Buffard begins, McClain's co counsel. Was all this was ever intended to be. Noise, lights and a message of hope to the foreigner who resides in our land. One notable moment came from Ben Song's attorney, the shooter's attorney, who made the case that Song did not intend to hit the police officer. He had fired his gun as, quote, suppressive fire. Song, who served in the Marines, saw Lt. Gross jump out of the car with his gun drawn and pointed at someone running away. And so, his attorney said, he fired his gun to force the police officer to take cover. Song's attorney showed a video to the jury of bullets hitting the ground, forcing little puffs of smoke into the air. The bullet that hit the officer, he said, was a ricochet. And then it's over. The defense attorneys are in such a good mood, a handful of them head over to the Fort Worth club down the street street, the exclusive members only spot. I know my way around there. It's off the record, but I can say the feeling around the club chairs is relief. I happened to be waiting around in the courtroom hallway when the verdict came in one and a half days later. Remember, there's no recording in there, so I don't have tape of it, I can tell you. It was like an icy wind blew down the hall. The verdict is in. All the defendants families hustled into the courtroom. And the reporters, the jurors filed in. One of the jurors was crying. The judge read the verdicts. Eight of the nine defendants had been charged with material support for terrorists. Every single one of them was found guilty. In fact, they were found guilty of almost everything. They were charged with riot using explosives. Fireworks count as explosives. And then there were the attempted murder and firearms charges that went with that. Only Bensong, the actual shooter, was found guilty of those. Everyone was facing very long prison sentences. I run out of the courthouse into the street so I could start taping. One of the dads is out here. Ed Kent, a used car salesman from around Dallas, talked to him a bunch during the trial. His daughter, who was 24 years old, had taken a plea deal. She testified for the prosecution. He'd come to court almost every day. A reporter asked him, what's the reaction in there? It's horrible for the parents, shaking and trembling and, you know, realizing their child's going to be in jail for a long time. Yeah, terrible. It's just terrible for the parents. He'd already been through these emotions of realizing his daughter wasn't coming home for years. I'd be crying if I was in their situation. I've cried over my daughter's situation a number of times, you know, by myself.

[Brian Buffard]

But you know, it's like, like just say that, you know, it was a travesty of justice.

[Zoe Chase]

Is not maybe true either because they all were foolish.

[Brian Buffard]

Fuck your daughter.

[Zoe Chase]

Fuck your daughter. That's a friend of the defendants screaming at Kent because his daughter was a cooperating witness or a snitch as they saw it. I spotted Brian Buffard, the defense attorney, headed toward his car. He was carrying a white button down shirt on a hanger, a shirt he'd brought for his client to wear in court.

[Brian Buffard]

That was rough.

[Zoe Chase]

What do you, what do you think?

[Brian Buffard]

I mean, I think they got it wrong. I think that they did not parse through reasonable doubt the way that the law was have them do it. I certainly don't dispute that that is their verdict.

[Ira Glass]

But.

[Brian Buffard]

Yeah, it's just hard to. Hard to take right now. Yeah.

[Zoe Chase]

He hangs up the shirt in his car. The sun is blazing down on our heads.

[Brian Buffard]

God bless America.

[Zoe Chase]

It's hot out here. What do you, what do you think of, you know, everybody's guilty of terrorism.

[Brian Buffard]

Yeah.

[Zoe Chase]

Or some material support.

[Brian Buffard]

The material support, what does that mean? Well, it means the government is going to be emboldened to continue to use the law in this way, which is a danger to everybody, as everybody ought to know. So.

[Zoe Chase]

And how are you?

[Brian Buffard]

Pretty rough. Not so good.

[Zoe Chase]

Later he told me it was one of the worst days of his life, losing this case. Every defense attorney is appealing this verdict, but they're kind of in a weird situation in a way I didn't fully understand until the end of the trial. The main questions of this trial, is Antifa a terrorist organization? Are these defendants Antifa? Are not actually the questions that were put in front of the jurors. The jury actually had to answer a much simpler set of questions. Providing material support to terrorists. It's 18 US Code Section 2339A. It's a law that expanded dramatically after 9 11. And strictly speaking, you can be charged with it if you do something as simple as do more than $1,000 worth of damage to a federal building intending to violate the law. That's it. That's all you need. The prosecution argued they did that. The graffiti, the slashed tires in the parking lot, the broken security camera. The prosecution also argued two other things that would cross qualify. But the graffiti, tires and camera damage on their own would be enough, which is to say the entire antifa portion of the trial that wasn't necessary to prove their case. The judge actually pointed this out toward the end of the trial after sitting through day after day of the government storytelling about antifa flags and symbols and zines and book clubs and clothing in signal chats. The judge asked the prosecutors a question. Is it necessary to prove this stuff about antifa? He said, whether it's antifa or the Methodist Women's Auxiliary of Weatherford. Why does it matter? It doesn't. The jury doesn't have to believe the antifa part at all in order to convict them of material support to terrorists. So all of that was in March. Sentences in the Prairie Land case came down a couple weeks ago for everyone who was accused of material support to terrorists. Six of them got 50 years, one of them got 70 years. The one defendant who wasn't accused of material support, he got 30 years. His crimes? He moved a box of zines and other stuff after the night at Prairieland and was convicted of conspiracy to conceal documents. He was not at the actual night of the fireworks. None of them had a prior criminal record. Ben Song, who shot the officer, got 100 years. The material support to terrorist charge can jump you to pretty large sentencing numbers. One defense attorney at Sentencing Police pointed out that 30 years is what you give murderers or cartel members for comparison, the highest sentence any of the January 6th rioters got before they were all pardoned and released was 22 years. Most of them got a lot less than that. None of them were charged with material support to terrorists or anything terrorism related. But the severity of these sentences, that was the judge's decision. There were two sentencing judges. sentencing, they talked about deterrence, sending a message to anyone else with a similar ideology. One former federal prosecutor told me the government probably sees this case as validating their antifa narrative. It can exist in a courtroom even if they weren't actually convicted of being antifa. There's already another case like it in another state. The charging documents are filled with claims, the defense or part of antifa, using some of the same language that was used in Texas. But if you look closely at this case, the Prairie Land case, at what was actually in the charges, at what was said in court, at the way the plea deals were written in the end, and at what the defendants were convicted of, it doesn't prove anything about antifa at all.

[Ira Glass]

Zoe Chase, by the way, Lynette Sharpe, who Zoe interviewed in jail, who pled guilty as part of her plea deal, was sentenced a couple weeks ago. She got nine years. At her sentencing, she apologized to Lieutenant Thomas Gross, the police officer who was shot, and she apologized to her family. To be human is to make mistakes, she said, Sometimes terrible ones. And dead. Was produced today by Zoe Chase and edited by David Kestenbaum. People put together today's show include Adrian Lilly, Molly Marcelo, Katherine Raymondo, Stone Nelson, Ruth Petito, Nadia Raymond, Ryan Rumry, Lara Stocheski, Francis Swanson, Christopher Sertala, Nancy Updike, Julie Whitaker and Diane Wu. Our managing editor is Sara Abderrahman. Our executive editor is Emmanuel Berry. Special thanks today to Tolowani Osi Bamawo, Kim Pascal, Thomas Brzozowski, Chris Cofer, James Lester, Marquita Clayton, Brett Sauer, Javier de Hanon, lydia Cosa, Luis A.C. the DFW Support Committee, Young, Yong McLean, Adam Fetterman, Amber Lowery, Kelsey Mittower, Jose Polieri, Janet Reitman, David Weiss, Lacey Crisler, Randy Ray and Dylan Duke. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by prx, the public radio Exchange. Thanks today to this American Life partners Helen Ingram, Scott Young and Daniel Williams to hear our many bonus episodes and get lots of other stuff, including lately this weekly newsletter that I've been writing where I tell you what's happening behind the scenes of the show and I recommend a movie or TV show to get that stuff. Become a this American Life partner. The main reason we hope you do that, that you become a life partner, is just to support the show and help us keep doing it and keep doing stories like you heard today, which I really think other people have not covered the same way. I hope you agree. You can [e-mail] LifePartners. That link is also in the show notes. Thanks as always to our program's co founder, Mr. Tory Malatea. You know from the start he has never called our program a radio show.

[Brian Buffard]

It was a noise demonstration, which I told them from the very beginning.

[Ira Glass]

I'm Eric Glass. Back next week with more stories of this American Life. Next week on the podcast this American Life, when a beloved tree was mysteriously cut down in a national park in Britain, people across the country were outraged. Called it slaughter.

[Zoe Chase]

They said things like, this feels like losing a close family member and rip beautiful tree. I wish I'd got to meet you.

[Ira Glass]

But the suspect could not care less. My understanding, he said, was it was just a tree. The very serious and entirely ridiculous criminal trial over a murdered tree. Next week on the podcast on your local public radio station, SA.