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- [00:00]
A
I don't know what the statistics are in the US or anywhere else in the world about the number of people who have pets, but I'd be willing to bet that that number is pretty high. And when we are thinking as photographers about how to market ourselves and how to differentiate ourselves in the marketplace, one glaring opportunity that I think gets overlooked a lot is that no matter what kind of photography we are providing, if we can find a way to intentionally incorporate our subjects, pets, into our, into our sessions and into our marketing for those sessions, we are going to start speaking to a large portion of the population that doesn't specifically get called out too often. So if you are a newborn photographer and all of your SEO and marketing materials focus only on newborns, you're going to reach the same people that every other newborn photographer in your area is reaching. And, you know, then it's just a matter of, do they like your photos, do your prices work, etc. Etc. But if you specifically work pets, let's say cats, dogs, you know, somebody has a parakeet into your newborn sessions, you don't have to stop being a newborn photographer, but all of a sudden you have an entire set of keywords and phrases and terms that you can incorporate that start to attract the large subset of your newborn population, including the people who have not just newborns, but also pets at home. And when they see like, oh, here's someone who's able to incorporate both parts of my new family, that speaks to them in a way that probably most other photographers aren't speaking to them. So this is something that I did without really thinking about it in my business for years, just because I was a pet owner, I was photographing in people's homes. I, you know, feel like my pets are part of my family. And I approached photographing families with that same mentality. If I showed up and they had the dog locked in a bedroom, at some point I would say, hey, why don't we, you know, bring Fido out and take some photos with Fido too? And oftentimes after the session, those photos would be the ones that went on their holiday cards or on their wall. And I, you know, started to incorporate more of those photos into my portfolio, which then attracted more people with pets. And the cycle went on. My guest today is Monica Adelsteensen, and she comes at that from the opposite direction. She started out photographing pets, but then started including their humans in her sessions and now exclusively photographs pets with their humans. She is coming on today to talk about how that really broadens your marketing potential and gives you so much more to connect with people over and talk to people about. And I love the way that she takes this sort of step by step approach to widening your reach in this way. So I think that whether you are already photographing both humans and animals, or if that's something that you have ever considered or would ever consider, today's episode is going to be a great one. Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. My name is Anna Mitonkin and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it and I can show you how. Monica, welcome back to this Can't Be that Hard. It is lovely to see your sweet face. How are you today?
- [04:10]
B
I am so good. I'm so excited to be back. Oh, my gosh. I just adore talking to you.
- [04:16]
A
Oh, the feeling is very mutual. I feel like you are one of those sort of standout stories among all the photographers that I have been fortunate to have to call students and to sort of get to know over time. It's. You have like taken the ball and run all the way, like way past the end zone and are just driving and doing such great things, not just in your own business, but sort of in the photography industry. And this is all over the course of what, two years?
- [04:45]
B
Two and a half years, yeah.
- [04:48]
A
Mind blowing. Amazing. Well, before I go gushing too much, why don't you, for anyone who doesn't know who you are, give everybody a little introduction about what you photograph and sort of what your journey has been in the photography industry.
- [05:03]
B
Yes. So I'm Monica Adelstinson. I run Pupp and Me Photography. I'm in Phoenix, Arizona, where it's quite lovely and sunny here. And I also. So I photograph full time and I. My goal with my photography is to photograph people and their dogs. Family photography, but with the dog. Right. And my goal with that is to document the unique relationship that we have with our dogs. So that is the entire purpose of my photography. It makes me so happy. I started, I went full time, gosh, in 2021 6. I think it was six months. No, not even that. Yeah, I think it was six months after I implemented simple sales system. I am obsess. So, yeah, I went full time. And in those two years, like, I've hit six figures, doing amazing. I'm so happy. And I also started making courses in that time. So I made the Pup plus me method and I also created the first ever force free certification, which is for pet photographers wanting to learn force free methods. So, yeah, that's what we've been doing. I've been busy.
- [06:07]
A
Yeah. Now I have followed all of your social media and everything about the force free method and this, that's not really what we're here to talk about today, but I would love for you to talk a little bit about what that is for anybody who may not be familiar, especially for the people who aren't pet photographers out there.
- [06:24]
B
Yes. Oh my gosh. It's. Yeah, because some of this verbiage, like if you're not like a pet guardian, like. Yes, very good point. So force free basically means like, take that literally. Right. Like we're not going to be forcing the dog to do anything. We're not going to be using forceful methods. So that means like no shot collars, prong collars, like making a commitment to saying, I'm not going to use these methods that could be harmful to the dog. And also respecting the dog's needs and paying attention to body language and also educating your clients on like the processes that you use and just making sure that like everyone's happy and safe and their needs are met. That's really the goal. Force free. Right, right. Very brief overview.
- [07:04]
A
So that's not in any way limited to like photography. That is just a, like a training methodology.
- [07:12]
B
Exactly.
- [07:13]
A
Ethos, I suppose. And then, and then you're implementing that. You're sort of committed to that as a photographer. I love that.
- [07:21]
B
Exactly. Yes. Yeah. There's lots of like force free certifications for trainers and veterinarians, vet techs. And I was like, hold on, why is there nothing like this for photographers? Because so many of us photograph dogs. It would be so lovely to have that kind of like certification so we can show our clients, like, hey, I've taken the extra steps to have the certification. You know, your pet's going to be in great hands with me. Yeah, right.
- [07:43]
A
Well, one of the things that I've talked about before is that based on my history as a labor and delivery and postpartum nurse, a lot of people when they hire me to photograph their newborns, you know, take that information and feel like they are more confident because I have, I mean, it's a different kind of a certification. It's a like a nursing license and experience, but it's, you know, it gives people that peace of mind. And I think that any sort of anything that we can point to on our, you know, resume. I know we don't send people a resume, but these are things that we get to talk about that does help set you apart. It helps give people confidence in your expertise, all those things. Thank you for being willing to go on this little side note journey with me. I am super excited to talk today about something that you and I have discussed in the past. Both of us photograph humans and animals. I market myself as a family photographer, but I would say more than 50% of my family sessions heavily involve pets. And I have had many family sessions that involve no children and just people and their pets. So it's not. I don't. You know, that's not typically the people who are reaching out to me because I don't market myself as a pet photographer, but they see my photos and they're like, great. My family includes two fur babies, or, you know, whatever you want to call them. So you kind of come to your business from the opposite side, where you do market yourself more as a pet photographer, but you're including people in, I think, all of your sessions.
- [09:19]
B
All of them, yeah.
- [09:21]
A
And, yeah. And we really. I think that that gives us a certain amount of flexibility, but also brings in more business. And I feel the people who aren't actively incorporating that are missing out. And I know you feel that way, too. So talk to me a little bit about how and why you started, because I know that back before you launched your. Or at least before you went full time, you were doing a ton of, like, you were photographing at rescues. So you were doing just the dogs.
- [09:53]
B
Yes. Yeah. So when I first started volunteering, like, I, like, was just photographing the dogs. Right. But then there was a moment where I was like, oh, let's get a volunteer in, like, because sometimes some dogs are, like, a little nervous, anxious babies, and they just need some human comfort. And I found that those photos, like, oh, I didn't want to stop taking them, just made my heart sing. So it became this business. Right. Like, it turned into something so much more because I just couldn't stop photographing people and their dogs. And it just shows, like, that lovely connection. And especially with rescue dogs, when you're photographing adoptables, it shows a potential family member. Like, this dog could look at me lovingly, like, in this photo. Right. Like, I want to be the human in that photo. Exactly. Yeah. That's exactly it.
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A
That's funny.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But through that, like, yeah, yeah, you.
- [10:43]
B
Could beat this person. Yeah. But, yeah, so through that, like, it just grew into, like, that was my unique specialty professionally when I launched my business full time, like, I only photograph people and their dogs. That's. It's been my favorite. I just can't get enough. But what I have found through that is talking to other photographers, people photographers and dog photographers is that they both, for the most part, dog photographers feel uncomfortable. Like, what to do with the humans. They're like, I don't know what to do with people. I don't want to deal with them. But then human photographers are like, oh, if a dog shows up, Like, I don't know what to do with them. Like, there's similar feelings. So, yeah, I just set out to try to educate people on, like, how we can incorporate pets into photography with the family photography. And it's been so much fun. It's. It's so much easier than you think.
- [11:37]
A
I'm trying to think if. When I. I mean, I've just always been a dog owner, and so I'm comfortable around dogs. I also used to have cats before I had a dog who did not deal with cats. I'm used to having animals around. I'm not intimidated by them. And I do understand that that's not true of everyone. So that, that is a different thing. But. So when I show up at somebody's house and because I photograph in a lot of people's homes, their pets are there. And I'm always like, yeah, bring them in. Maybe not for the whole session, but. But it is a part of your daily life. And so as someone who is trying to capture a true snapshot, so to speak of someone's world, that is just part of it. So it didn't. It was never like, a consciousness decision on my part. But as you and I have talked about this, I recognize that that's not universally true. Like, there are definitely a lot of photographers out there who are saying, like, no, it's just this, or it's just this. Yeah, tell me about the people who you have now started to coach and teach about this. Like, what is their. Where are they coming from on that? And, yeah, how do you help bridge that gap?
- [12:44]
B
Yeah, so I do. Like, yeah, you're right. I am coaching and I. Oh, my gosh. I so excited about it. So I am helping a lot of. Right now, I'm helping a lot of pet photographers because they're just kind of like, I don't even understand, like, what do I direct the humans? Like, how do I even do this? And I have found my. My biggest tips Are like education. Right? Like, and I'm sure you teach us a lot. Like, you're huge on client education. I feel like your simple sales system like really opened my eyes to like what client education can be, which is phenomenal. So I just kind of like added to that. Yeah. A big part of it is when you are going into a session with people in their, their pets, you want to set expectations of what to expect during that session. A lot of times clients feel that their dog has to be absolutely perfection and not even professional dog models are. They're not perfect, you guys. Like, they are not. No dog is perfect. They like, they smell amazing things, they want to go explore. Like they're excited to be in a new place, new people. It's going to be a party and just tell them like, we expect that. Right. Like it's not going to be perfect. They're going to have fun and just encourage like that in fun environment. Right. Like letting them be themselves. My number one tip when we're going into that is like educating the clients like thoroughly, like what it means to be force free. You know, should you bring treats, should you ask your dog to sit, all of those things. I educate so much because a lot of times clients, I'm sure you've had this too, where it's like they come in and their, their dog starts sniffing and they're like, oh no, they're sniffing. They're not looking at the camera and they yanking on the leash and it's like, oh no, just let them be. They'll eventually, you know, get their time. But right now they're having fun exploring and that's totally fine. Yeah.
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A
It's not unlike photographing people with toddlers. And the people are like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. They're, they're just blah, blah, blah. It's like, what do you, what, I don't expect you to be able to control a two year old.
- [14:41]
B
Yes. And that's just so it. So like you don't have to become like a, like a pet photographer like specifically or become a dog expert to do this. Right. Like treat it just the same as you would a family photography session. Like let the kids have fun, encourage them to be themselves and you'll get the most authentic, beautiful images that way.
- [15:01]
A
I love that. So you were talking about how a lot of the people that you're working with currently are pet photographers. How does that work in the other direction when it's like they know how to manage a dog in a session, but then people show up and, you know, and they want to maybe try and incorporate them. How does that work in reverse? Does that make sense?
- [15:20]
B
Yes. Yes. So I teach my clients or not my clients. Excuse me. Why did I say it that way? I teach my students.
- [15:29]
A
I used to. When I first started, I would refer to my clients as my patients because I was coming from nursing. So the nomenclature is tricky.
- [15:37]
B
That is so funny.
- [15:40]
A
Figure it out over time.
- [15:42]
B
So I definitely teach, like, my students, like, how to pose and give prompts to the humans. Right? Because a lot of times, like, we're. We don't have that practice and don't have that verbiage. Right? Like, we're like, I don't even know what to say. That's a lot of things that I hear from my students. Like, I don't even know what this. What are you gonna say? How do I tell people things? It's like you just give them directions. So I have like, scripts and like, all of that for people who are really struggling on how to communicate with humans. But yeah, we have posing prompts that encourage, like, natural connection with dogs. And also I include like a lovely little like, breakdown guide. Right. Like, like, do this prompt first. Take a break. Like, everyone, take a break. Go sniff, Go have fun. Go do whatever. Do another prompt. Like, we've got it laid out to help people photograph people so that way they don't feel, like, uncomfortable. Because I think that's a skill that a lot of people don't realize you need to have when you're photographing humans is like, you gotta be able to talk a little bit and give some direction. Right. You don't wann just be like, just go do whatever. So try to help give direction sometimes.
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A
Every once in a while, just go do whatever works. But most of the time you're going to need to, like, zhuzh it a little bit.
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B
Exactly. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
- [17:03]
A
So talk a little bit about. Somebody has decided, okay, I photograph all pets, but I want to start incorporating their people or I photograph all people. And now I want to start offering to have pets join in these family sessions. Talk a little bit about how that messaging goes, how you can start to sort of put the word out that that's something that you're doing. Maybe how you get some practice before you start doing that? Like, what are the steps?
- [17:31]
B
Yeah, so messaging. I market myself as a family dog photographer, and I feel like that has been working well with my SEO and Google. People are actually searching those things, which kind of surprises me. But definitely marketing yourself as a family Dog photograph, you could say family pet photographer and that way it's not just pet photographer. And because that kind of like, you know, makes it more singular. Right? So marketing yourself that way and just saying, like, we're going to include the entire family, right? We're going to include the humans and the dogs and we're just going to have a good time and just marketing that. And also as sad as it is, it is good to note that with family dog photography, the way you can market it is that dogs don't have a long time with us. Right. Unfortunately. It makes me so sad to even like bring it up. I'm like, oh, should I even talk about this? But it's true. It's very sad, but it's true. And so you can always let people know, like, hey, like we don't have as much time with dogs as we do with humans and you should really get photos with your family while they're still here and feeling good and happy. So that is one way to market. Maybe not solely, but definitely market like family dog photography. Right. And then as far as like getting practice in, oh my gosh, I have lots of ideas for this. So one is always like volunteering, right? I love volunteering at the local rescue. Or you could also like partner with dog trainers, that kind of stuff. If you're wanting to like have some guidance on dog behavior, dog language, body language. Working with a trainer and like taking their photos can help a lot too. I have learned every time we have a dog trainer, I'm like, yes, I love this so much because they notice everything. I love it.
- [19:25]
A
It's also good marketing after the fact. If you are able to get good photos for that person, they have lots of connections with potential clients.
- [19:32]
B
Exactly. Yes. It's all good stuff. And then yeah, I mean, just getting out there and just doing it right, like you just have to dive in. Sometimes, unfortunately, as scary as it feels like, just ripping that bandaid off and just going and doing it, the more you do it, the better you will get and the more comfortable you will become. And at this point, I remember when I first started like photographing just people and their dogs, I had a hand written list of my prompts and poses and shots I wanted to get. And I would pull that little piece of paper out during my session and be like, did I get that shot okay? And I don't even think about it anymore. Right. I don't even have like a flow. Like I know it's just embedded in my brain forever, hopefully. But yeah, the more you do it, the better you will get. Yeah.
- [20:22]
A
So when it comes to photograph how many of your clients? Because I have seen lots of your photos. Most of them are adults and dogs.
- [20:32]
B
Yes.
- [20:33]
A
Do you have many or any family clients where you're photographing like adults, kids and dogs? Because that does add an extra layer of chaos potential.
- [20:44]
B
It really does. Yeah. So I do, I just don't share it very often. I actually it's. It's kind of interesting. I kind of like at the very beginning was like, no kids. I don't want to photograph kids anymore because I had done it before and it was very frustrating. And it was only frustrating because I didn't do proper client education before. I would have quick little example. One of the sessions I did, like, gosh, it was probably five or six years ago. This couple showed up and they had toddlers, like little, like just learning how to walk, handed the leash over to the children and yeah, dogs are excited. Yeah. And so like dogs pulled, got loose in the parking lot. Kids face planted. I'm running around the parking lot trying to get these dogs and like total chaos. Right. Like, worst case scenario that happened. So I, you know, when I was quit full time, I was like, I'm not gonna deal with that. Like, it's too much. But now I know I just need to educate people. So I do photograph kids and dogs and all that, but we have rules around that. Right. So like, definitely meeting with the client first and talking to them, like seeing what the relationship is like between the dog and the kids. Because sometimes parents aren't even comfortable with, you know, the dog being on the leash with the kids, like that kind of stuff, which is fine. It's good to like, see how that goes. But again, just having that client education part, just like talking to them and seeing like, what are they comfortable with and what kind of shots are they hoping for? Hopefully that answers that.
- [22:16]
A
But yeah, yeah, no, it totally does. And I'm going to jump in and add a couple of my own things. I mean, first of all, or another point is that it depends on like the age of the kid, but also the size and demeanor of the dog. Right. I mean, if you've got like, it's a very different thing if you've got some little, you know, tiny schnauzer y type thing versus like a 90 pound pit bull. But you know, as. As people who have kids and pets, they're used to managing both. And it's like, we don't need to go outside the, the norms of what you do. As a family. In fact, by keeping like if you're holding the two year old and you have the dog on the leash, that's your normal state of being. Like those are. We can photograph that and it'll be both safer and more authentic.
- [23:06]
B
Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And that's another thing too is like, so we bring handlers to our session. My partner Evan comes with us. So like we're able to like give the family a little break. We could just do one on one photos and all that. And like Evan will just go and walk the pup and you know, do a little sniffari with them. It's very lovely.
- [23:30]
A
Yeah, that's very funny. And I have done the same. When I've got families who are bringing pets, making recommendations, I don't bring a handler, but I make recommendations that they have, you know, grandma come along or a, you know, like a dog sitter, babysitter who's just sort of along to be an extra pair of hands for either the dog or the kids or you know, whatever the case may be. And I think that that can be a huge, not only help to you but also like a weight off of your clients minds that they have that backup.
- [24:03]
B
Exactly. Oh my gosh. That's a really good point too. That's another thing for our family photos, like when we do full like the kids and everybody. I will ask like them to bring a kid wrangler.
- [24:13]
A
Yeah.
- [24:15]
B
Just because like I really love getting one on one photos with the dog and like kind of like a couple's photo situation with the dogs and like people don't think about that. Right. Like your relationship is so unique with each dog and human. So it's really important to document that.
- [24:32]
A
Amazing. I feel like you have given so many good little tidbits and this is such a, you know, especially in this season where I feel like there are a lot of people who are saying I'm having a hard time with inquiries or I'm having a hard time, you know, separating myself in the market. Everybody, you know, it's like it's just a price shopping bonanza out there, which is not true across the board. And Monica's a great example of how that's not true for everyone. But I feel like this could be a really legitimate avenue for people to explore. And if I'm correct, you've got a course to help people sort of down that path. So talk a little bit about how people can learn more.
- [25:15]
B
Yes. So we created the Pup plus me method and that is a course on how to. It's like start to finish. Right. It's the marketing materials, it's the client education. It's prompts and poses. It's everything you would need to dive into photographing people and their pets. So that's a course we created. You can find that on my website@papamiphoto.com education and with that, if you decide to go that route and learn that education or purchase the course, we'll do 50 off of the course if you purchase through this podcast episode. So yeah, hopefully I said that all correctly.
- [25:57]
A
Yeah, I will put a link to that in the show notes. Do they need to use any sort of code or anything or how does that.
- [26:05]
B
So definitely use the code onomy.
- [26:07]
A
I will put that in the show notes as well. So puppeteephotography.com education use code onomy A N N E M I e to get 50 off. That's so generous. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for coming on the show again. It's always so lovely to chat with you and hear how things are going out there in the wilds of Arizona.
- [26:28]
B
Yes, it's so nice chatting with you. Thank you so much. Wonderful.
- [26:33]
A
Have a great day.
- [26:35]
B
Thanks. You too.
- [26:36]
A
Well, that's it for this week's episode of this can't be that hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads@thiscantbethard.com learn. If you like the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review on itunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.