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- [00:00]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Whenever I'm chatting with a friend of mine who does not own a small business who's not self employed, they tend to make comments about, oh, I could never do that. I don't have enough discipline, I don't have enough drive, I'm not, you know, I don't stay on task, whatever, you know, kind of comments they make. And for years I would nod my head and agree and say, yeah, it's sort of a, you know, I guess it's. It takes all types, right? Like, it takes all kinds. I definitely felt like maybe I had a set of personality traits that made me not uniquely qualified, but specifically qualified to be my own boss. The fact of the matter is, at this point, having been in business for 15 years and having met countless other small business owners, I have come to realize that it does take all types. And there are all types of people out there running successful small businesses. Which begs the question, what is it that makes some people want to start a business and then be successful at doing it? And what makes other people not either not start or not, you know, stick with it or whatever the case may be. I don't claim to have all the answers, but one of the insights that I have come to over the course of my time in business is that if nothing else, running a small business requires an extreme amount of self awareness. Because over time, it's not possible to run a successful business, certainly not in a sustainable way, without recognizing what your strengths are, what your shortcomings are, the things that you happily do, the tasks that we all have to do in our business, the things that you resist doing or avoid doing. If you are not self aware in that way, if you do not consciously recognize that there are parts of your business that you need help with, then you're probably not going to be in business forever. My conversation today is with Ellie McKinney, who is a fabulous wedding photographer based in Winston Salem here in North Carolina. So it turns out she's just, you know, an hour down the road from me, which is fun. We haven't met in person, but we have a great conversation to share with you today about the Enneagram. So I've talked sort of in sidebar language on this podcast about the Enneagram before, but the truth of the matter is I really love talking about it. And for years I have thought I need to do an episode about the Enneagram. Because if you haven't taken the Enneagram or read about the different personality types that are described in the Enneagram, I really think that it's worth your time doing. And if you happen to be listening to this around the time that it's dropping, it's the end of the year. You don't want to be, you know, building a system or doing anything else. Go take a personality test. Like, they're fun too. It's not all vegetables over here. You can have snacks and desserts every once in a while too. So the Enneagram was a test that I took several years ago, I'm gonna say four or five years ago. And it gave me such incredible insights about not just kind of my personality, but also the way that I tend to show up in some areas of my life, in my business, and kind of struggle in others. And so the conversation today is entertaining. You may find it insightful, but if nothing else, I hope that you take away from this that it's worth in this season of rest and reflection or as you enter what I hope will be a season of rest and reflection soon, that you take some time to consider where you are mentally, emotionally, spiritually in your business and in your life. Because these things are all related as we operate as self employed people. And I hope that that exercise helps you have a better year this coming year and then every year moving forward.
- [04:18]
Ellie McKinney
Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. My name is Anna Mi Tonkin and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it and I can show you how.
- [04:48]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Allie McKinney, welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. I'm so excited to have you on the show. How are you today?
- [04:53]
Ellie McKinney
I'm good. I'm thrilled to be here and to know that we actually live close, close to one another and we could have this conversation.
- [05:00]
Anna Mi Tonkin
If I had fancier equipment, we could be having this conversation in person. But I'm actually really set up to do this at a distance. I started the podcast in 2020. It was by necessity then and now it's just sort of by the limitations of my equipment.
- [05:15]
Ellie McKinney
No, absolutely. And that's when actually that's the same year I fell in love with our topic today. Oh, this is really fun.
- [05:22]
Anna Mi Tonkin
There we go. What a segue. I didn't even like plan that. So. Yeah. Well, I am super excited about chatting with you about Enneagram and I was saying to you before we hit record I have. I don't know exactly when it was that I first took the Enneagram, but it was one of those where I felt so overseen. Like, I felt so visible when I read the description of my Enneagram that I was. It was almost a little embarrassing. I was like, wow, I am that predictable, or, you know, whatever. And I had taken personality tests in the past and nothing had really been so spot on. So, of course, like a lot of people I know, I just got really into reading more about it and all that sort of thing. But I am by no means an Enneagram expert, and I was excited to bring you on the show today. I was honestly, like, doing research, trying to figure out somebody who had expertise with Enneagram, but also was, you know, in the photography world because I am just fascinated by how this impacts kind of all the. Or I shouldn't say it impacts, but our knowledge of an understanding of our own Enneagram type can impact the way we run our businesses, the way we operate in our daily lives. And so, yeah, I'm just, like, itching to dive in.
- [06:45]
Ellie McKinney
Oh, I'm excited. I feel like if it doesn't hurt, then it's probably not your Enneagram. Right. Because there's so many tests out there. And I remember reading mine and just reading the name of my Enneagram type. I wanted to hide under a rock. Like, nobody's supposed to know I'm that person. So it's just really funny that you said that because I have been so into all different. I mean, we have Myers, Briggs. There's so many things out there that you can help learn about yourself. But the Enneagram just hurt a little different. And I thought, wait a second. This is really going to change my life. I think so. I couldn't agree more.
- [07:17]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah, there's probably some truth when it. When it gets that close. Well, yeah, let's just kind of start there. Let's start with the story of how you came to, you know, know about the Enneagram and start to learn more about it.
- [07:32]
Ellie McKinney
Yes. So. Oh, this is always a fun story to tell because I never want to claim true expertise. I'm not a psychologist. I don't have a degree. I mean, I call it Enneagram obsessed. So everything that I do kind of evolves around this. And so whether it's my relationship with my husband, in our marriage, how I'm raising my little boy, my family and friends, the way that I bring on clients as a photographer, I stem all of my decisions around the Enneagram and so that's how obsessive I am. But my dad is a psychologist, and so ever since I can't remember, starting at the age of like two, I was taking different tests, going to his office. I had a really. I was just so intrigued by the results. So the questions were interesting, but once you get the results back, it was like, you know, I think I was like 10 and I was like, so what am I supposed to do with this? I already wanted to know, like, how to get better or what this would mean for my future. And then I realized, oh, that's also a part of my Enneagram type. So I am@enneagram3, which is the Achiever, which made me want to hide under a rock because no one's supposed to know I'm working that hard to achieve. Okay. It just was something that the Enneagram, like you said at the beginning of this conversation, it hit different. And I thought, if this is impacting me and giving me this self development and self growth that is making me into what I see as a better person, nobody should be missing out on this. We should be talking about this all the time. And so that's where the obsession started, was over. Covid. There was an app called Clubhouse where we would all go on there, and it was just an open conversation around anything you wanted to talk about with others while Covid was happening and we weren't allowed to leave our house. And so I just found myself talking about Enneagrams every day to the point where I decided to bring it into the education, photography education realm.
- [09:38]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. Amazing. I. I had almost completely forgotten about Clubhouse. It's so funny that you bring that up. Yeah. I was on there for like a minute and then was like, too much. Too much. Yeah. So I am also an enneagram3 and felt exactly the same way in terms of that. Oh, I'm. I'm an achiever. And. And actually, I want to take it a step further. It wasn't just that I wanted to hide under a rock. I was like, reading about the other Enneagrams, and I kept Enneagram crushes. I was like, oh, I wish I was this. I wish I was this. And I. It is. It has been like a journey back to. Okay, that's part of it. And you have to just sort of understand where you're coming from, what your motivations are, and. And work with those as opposed to trying to fight them. But it seems to me that a lot of people have that initial reaction when they read about their Enneagram and then read about the others. Is this sort of like wishful thinking of. Yeah, that's exactly like me. I wish I was something, you know, I wish there was some way that I could be this other thing. Do you find that?
- [10:44]
Ellie McKinney
Yes. And the biggest transition for me was whenever I realized, and this is nothing that's truly proven. This is how I've taken in the information of the Enneagram. But we're a mix of all of them. So it's almost like I saw myself in these other pieces and I was like, maybe I should let that part of myself shine more, you know what I mean? Or to take on these different personality types, depending on what I saw their strengths being. And then I had to backtrack and realize, oh yeah, that's my enneagram3 showing again. Like, I'm really trying to achieve here and be a part of all of this. But the Enneagram, I truly believe, is a mix of how we work as humans. And so while all of them are relatable, and I truly think we're made up of all of them, there are certain personality types that really shine through the most for us as individuals. And so whenever I think about, you know, I turn into an enneagram 8 in situations where I need to be that person. And so it's really nice that the Enneagram is truly meant for self discovery. And another hard part for me was to not start to like, tell other people what their Enneagram was like. Oh my gosh, such a four right now, you know, like, there's so many pieces of the Enneagram that are supposed to help with self growth. And so learning the healthiest ways to use the Enneagram for interactions and understanding was interesting. Interesting too.
- [12:07]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. Yeah, it definitely. And I do think there's an arc where it's like, you learn about it, you dive deeper into it if that is, you know, of interest to you. And then you do. You start looking around and being like, oh, she's a seven. You know, he's a. He's a one, whatever the case may be. And then there is. I find sort of the. That you start to reel that in as you start to see the. The way that it shows up in a more complex way. And it. One of my favorite things, and one of the things that I feel makes the Enneagram really helpful, not just sort of prescriptive, is when you start to read about how your type, your. Your number shows up differently in different circumstances. So when you are being Your best self, your most sort of, I don't know, enlightened self, then certain characteristics come through based on your type versus when you are stressed or under pressure or, you know, sort of deteriorating as we all do from time to time, and how you can tend to wield those same characteristics as a weapon rather than as a tool. And that's where, yeah, I feel like it's more than just entertainment, but really does become helpful.
- [13:28]
Ellie McKinney
Yeah, I think we can all relate to what you just said. And we feel it. We feel ourselves changing. We feel ourselves frustrated or how we act when we're super happy. And there are those little pieces that change. And the Enneagram helps us put words to those exact feelings and understand what is the trigger behind that. And so the Enneagram is really just a tool to a very complex, in depth rundown that we can go on this adventure with understanding ourselves. And so I think that's what made me fall in love with the Enneagram is it was such a good base where it's not just what career I should have, but how and why do I react to certain things the way that I do. So as a wedding photographer, there's always things that happen that we can't control. And so it changed me as a wedding photographer first. And that's when I was like, okay, let's dig in. Because I just think we all need to figure out how we can be the best photographers we can be through this. And obviously there's. There's changes every single day that I find within myself. And even this interview, before getting on, I was like, wait, I could change my questionnaire up a little bit to truly help me understand their personality types as clients without saying, what Enneagram are you? And so I added a few questions that I'm happy to share too.
- [14:48]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah.
- [14:48]
Ellie McKinney
Questionnaire.
- [14:49]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Oh, I love that. Everybody loves to. I feel like I'm constantly tweaking my questionnaire.
- [14:53]
Ellie McKinney
Oh, it's the best.
- [14:55]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Okay, so that is the perfect segue into kind of what I want to talk about now, which is how. Okay, so you. You found out what your Enneagram was. You kind of went down the rabbit hole. How did that start to show up in sort of practical ways in your business and as a wedding photographer?
- [15:17]
Ellie McKinney
Yes. It's that self development piece. So I would find myself. Okay, let's just be brutally honest here. I'd find myself super frustrated during the family photos. Like that list.
- [15:28]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah.
- [15:29]
Ellie McKinney
That you have to go through right after ceremony. And I would be thinking, I am so good at the rest of the day. Sorry, that's an enneagram3 thing for me to just be boastful. But that I really was like, I feel really good through this entire day, except for this one spot. And I get frustrated every time. And I realized it was because I couldn't make everybody happy. I couldn't make everybody feel like, this was amazing. We're taking family photos. And so I realized that my personality type can be so quick to get something done and not necessarily understand the pieces of how it's affecting individuals along the way. I was just so caught up in meeting my timeline that I didn't take a step back, back and realize, what are people feeling during this moment? What are ways that I could prepare differently? Is there another thing that my second photographer could be doing during this time to make it easier? And so I realized from digging into the Enneagram, there was that frustration point where I had to step out of the personality type I go into whenever I get stressed, which is like just a get it done mode. And realize that that's when I need to relate to people the most, to make them also feel special. That it's not just about a time. It's about the memories in these moments and really figuring out, you know, from a. From a perspective of. Not the true wedding timeline, but in my own timeline of how I navigate that moment could look very different if I were to just find these other pieces of my inner self to realize that the way I'm doing it right now is not the best way.
- [17:10]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. Yeah, That's a perfect example. Did you find once you had that realization that that made that portion of the day significantly easier, or was it more like an ex? I don't. I don't know if I'm asking that question clearly. I find that sometimes, even when I feel like I can intellectually understand something, it doesn't magically make my own personal stress or distaste for something disappear. But did it? Like, how? What was the. What was the trans. Formation over time? What was that process like?
- [17:49]
Ellie McKinney
So this is a bit wild, but not really. I guess it does make sense. But I started partnering and building my team around personality types who were a good balance to mine.
- [18:03]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yep.
- [18:03]
Ellie McKinney
I. Whenever I started, I wanted to find people who were just like me. I'm like, yes, this is the way we're gonna have the energy, the vibes. We're gonna be extra and everybody's gonna love it. But that's not the case.
- [18:14]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Right.
- [18:14]
Ellie McKinney
We love the energy, but there also needs to be A calming moment who's helping their mom switch the corsage on her wrist to be forward facing the camera to make her feel really good, to push that shoulder back so that she can look and feel more confident in her pose. And it's those interactions with family members. While I'm going through the list that once I tried it the first time I was, like, done. This second photographer doesn't need to necessarily be reading the list. This is from the new self growth that I've been working on recently. So this is a very new change for me. And I just realized that this. Any moment in the day or any moment in your session that either gives you a bit of anxiety or doesn't feel like you're the best at, there's always a way to work around it. And so that's where I started to build upon. Okay, I'm going to ask for a specific list of names. So I'm calling these family members by names. Not. Okay, let's find your uncle and get him in here. No, we understand who Joe is. We also love and appreciate Joe for being there. And so calling people by their name for those family photo interactions and then having the second photographer build their confidence makes it go so much smoother. And the smiles are way more genuine.
- [19:31]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. Yeah. That relates so directly to something that I talk about a lot when I'm talking about business and the process of running a business and how to sort of decide where you want to start with outsourcing and automation. And I always say, look for the friction points and the bottlenecks in your own business.
- [19:52]
Ellie McKinney
Yes.
- [19:53]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Not that the process isn't working smoothly because the process is broken. That's an easy thing to fix. But if you're chronically procrastinating on a particular task, it probably speaks to the fact that you, you know, don't like doing that or aren't good at that or whatever. And that can be a really good place to start. So I love that in your. In the, you know, workflow of a wedding, you identified that one spot and realized that that was, you know, and. And then used other people to help make that better and easier, not just for you, but for your clients as well. I mean, that's it. It comes down to the fact that it benefits both.
- [20:32]
Ellie McKinney
Definitely. That moment of the day, we all know, can just be a little intense, even if you've just attended a wedding so totally well.
- [20:40]
Anna Mi Tonkin
And it's such a. It's such a high. Like a heightened emotional moment, too. The ceremonies just happened. Everybody's all up on that. And then, yeah, when Joe disappears because he's like, you can't get him away from the cocktail bar. And. Yeah, it's a whole thing. Oh, man. So you spent some period of time where you had mentees. You were acting as a mentor in the wedding photography community, and you were working with a lot of different photographers who, among other things, you were talking about and delving into their enneagram and how that affected their business. I'm curious, since you and I happen to share an enneagram type, how you saw that play out for. I mean, and obviously, we don't have to go into all nine enneagram types, but. But I'd love just some different examples of how that shows up for other people, because, yeah, I can. I can very much relate to everything that you're saying, but I'm sure that there are people out there who are like, that's. That would not be my issue at all.
- [21:44]
Ellie McKinney
Right. No. And whenever it came. So I spent. Now that I think about it, I think it was probably four years that I spent, maybe longer. You know, like, you start as a photographer. I started with mentoring because somebody asked me, and I was like, let me try this out. Fell in love with it, continued it. And then I started an online platform called Psych Society. Because a lot of the things that I did were based on psychology, even though I'm not a psychologist. And I found that everybody who was coming to me for those first mentoring sessions that I did didn't have a problem with their true processes. It was something inside them that was stopping them from taking the next step to build upon those processes or to adapt to something, to change something about their mindset. It was a mindset challenge every single time they could find what platform to use, they could figure out their camera settings with practice, but what they were struggling with. And it was different based on the individual, but it had a lot to do with overcoming a fear or overcoming some sort of boundary that was holding them back. And so I started to try not to put people in categories, but I was like, wait, if I have an open conversation around their personality type, what would this mentoring session look like? And it changed everything. People immediately felt like they could take a deep breath. Sometimes we had tears. I'm an emotional girly outcry with you. It just was something that led to a better understanding of their inner self where they could continue that work and build upon it and truly take something that is a new, learned behavior to change and adjust the outcomes that they were looking to see.
- [23:33]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. And did you see? I feel like it's. It probably makes sense that in the greater entrepreneurial community and then the subset of entrepreneurs that are artists, you know, creative entrepreneurs, is like a very specific thing. I imagine that we tend to cluster around certain Enneagram types.
- [23:57]
Ellie McKinney
I was just gonna bring that up.
- [23:59]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Oh, good. Okay.
- [24:02]
Ellie McKinney
And what's funny is that led me to understanding those Enneagram types more than others. And that's why I don't claim to be a true expert. Expert of the Enneagram, because I do feel like my. The way that I've been guided has truly been around photographers. And we happen to be two, threes and fours, very, very frequently videographers. I see a lot of five and sixes in their personality types. And then we trickle in with sevens because just the. Especially with elopements and weddings and adventuring, those Enneagram types love just the unknown and being able to adventure with their couples. So I would say I probably just from my own personal path, had the most mentorships with Enneagram Twos. I would say twos were the ones who I saw the most, and that's the helper. And so it doesn't come as a total surprise that they are photographers.
- [24:58]
Anna Mi Tonkin
And what's the nickname for fours?
- [25:01]
Ellie McKinney
Individualist.
- [25:02]
Anna Mi Tonkin
The individualist. Okay.
- [25:03]
Ellie McKinney
This is a person who has, like, a color scheme for their life, right? You go to their feed and you're like, I know I personally want to be like them because I'm like, yes, I want my coffee to match my shoes and my earrings to match, like my Stella cover, but I'm not that person. But I love the fact that they are just so artsy in that way.
- [25:22]
Anna Mi Tonkin
And I remember when I first read about fours, thinking, oh, I. I imagine most photographers are fours because it's that sort of artist personality type. But I totally can see how the helper is, you know, as commoner, even potentially more common. Anyway, I. If you're listening to this and you're on my email list or you are in my Instagram world, like DM me or shoot me an email, I would love to hear what your example of this is or what your. You know, what your personality type is and how that shows up, because I am. I'm just totally fascinated. I think as a. As a three, it's like, to your point, before, I have this tendency to jump to like, okay, I figured this out. Now let's move on to the next thing. But Enneagram has been one of those things where the deeper I Go. The more, you know, interesting, like nooks and crannies, I find. So it's just a conversation that I really enjoy having. So let's take this out of the business realm and sort of put it into the bigger context of life. How have you seen sort of an exploration of this knowledge change or show up in the way that you operate at home and in your daily life?
- [26:40]
Ellie McKinney
It has absolutely changed my life, I think. I mean, whenever I first started digging into it as the person who's like, oh, this is. This is the change we need to see. This is the understanding. I was at family holiday functions making everyone take the test. Like, I was that girly. Yeah. My family members are like, what in the world? I'm like, I just understand you better. Don't even understand yourself. Like, it was just something that started out with so much passion. And then my husband, the way that we communicate it, he's somebody who just needs a breather, needs a break in between things. And I want to face it head on, Like, I want to get it done in the next five minutes, just like you mentioned, so that we can move on and we can find other things to conquer.
- [27:25]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Right.
- [27:25]
Ellie McKinney
That's not exhausting for other people. So realized is that I'm willing to change those behaviors to meet somebody halfway or 10 to 90, you know, whatever the day holds. And then I became a mom and I didn't even think of the enneagram. I promise you guys, I'm not crazy. Like, my son did not come out into this world and me be like, okay, what are you? What am I dealing with? But as he gets older, I could see the growth that he has. And having conversations in a healthy way to help him overcome his challenges based on his personality type has truly been beneficial to him. There are so many parts of his life that were just unexpected. And so as a parent, it's about adapting. And we could figure out the best ways to be ourselves. But without understanding our child or without understanding our partner or our best friend, we're really not doing our life justice because we are perceiving the world in a totally different way potentially than that person is. And so being able to have open conversations even with a seven year old has just really changed everything in the way that we interact. And it's led to so much happiness. And what I just don't know anything else I could want more in this life is happiness and understanding and for somebody to feel seen and heard. And so just being able to have that conversation and know how to word it Simply because of the Enneagram layout has just been very helpful.
- [29:02]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. Oh man, I wish that I had come across the Enneagram earlier in my parenting journey. My kids are now 18 and 15 and when I did learn, start to learn more about that, you know, my now 18 year old was in sort of the throes of the middle of his teenage years and it was super helpful for me. Not necessarily. I mean, eventually I was like, oh, you want to take this test? And he did. I don't know, you know, I, I think I remember reading when I had him take it that taking. Taking it or you know, trying to establish someone's enneagram prior to adulthood is probably premature, but absolutely, we got some, you know, some insights out of it a little bit. But more than anything it was just me understanding my need to problem solve for him all the time. Because of course teenagers relatable, like the parenting really stops being about like, oh, don't fall, don't do this. And it's more about helping them manage the, the life lessons that they are need to sort of take it in and process and all that sort of thing. And yeah, I was doing a lot of jumping to like, okay, here's the checklist of how we're going to fix it.
- [30:22]
Ellie McKinney
Here are three things exactly.
- [30:23]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Today it's what makes me a decent online course maker and podcaster. Like five fast ways to. But it's not the way that you want to parent your teenager. And, and that really did help me step back and make some space for just listening or it helped remind me. I mean, hopefully I wasn't completely skipping over that part, but. But it did, you know, it was like being aware and self aware in that way was really helpful. And I do think just to follow up on the fact that you're supposed to sort of wait until early adulthood. What's been interesting for me, the first personality test I ever took, I took in school in high school, which was the Myers Briggs.
- [31:07]
Ellie McKinney
Yes.
- [31:07]
Anna Mi Tonkin
And I remember, you know, being pretty excited and obsessed about that as well. Personality test. What more could you want in high school to learn all about yourself?
- [31:16]
Ellie McKinney
Yes.
- [31:17]
Anna Mi Tonkin
But I've retaken the Myers Briggs over time and my Myers Briggs has changed. In particular my extroversion introversion. It used to be like I was a super solid extrovert and I think that's pretty just markedly changed over, over time. But I have also read and can understand that Enneagram tends to be more stable over time. Is that, have you heard that or seen that?
- [31:44]
Ellie McKinney
Yes. And I probably should let you guys know that I did not make my 7 year old take this test. Let me preface it with that. I was like, wait, I really jumped ahead there. But I do ask him questions like, how do you feel when this happens? And so if the thing about. I almost don't believe in taking the test anymore. Because if you start to read the personality types, and I was joking about which one hurt the most, but whatever one hits the hardest, like, yeah, you don't need a test. You're telling yourself which one just really pulls on some of those personality type moments that you go to over and over and you feel very seen. And because I'm. I haven't done any research, it's really based on my own and based on my family members. They've. They've kind of always been those people, but I see them. It's almost like as we get older, we have this beautiful ability to define ourselves in certain ways in different situations. And I used to be so embarrassed that I was such a chameleon. Like, I just wanted to find myself and be that one person all the time. And then I realized, like, oh, no, that's like a little bit of the secret sauce of becoming, like early adulthood is that you're just. You're still building upon yourself. And now that I'm, you know, in my 30s, it's like, wait a second. This is. This is who I am and how I come across all the time. So you go through different phases through your life. But from my own personal Enneagram, I have always tried super hard to achieve, as much as I don't want to admit that, ever since I can remember.
- [33:18]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah, yeah, same 100%.
- [33:23]
Ellie McKinney
And so if you're listening and you haven't looked into the Enneagrams, definitely check it out. But let's say you're an Enneagram. One, you have a true definition of what's right and wrong, and you want to make sure to follow it. Or you're a four, and you're so sure of who you are and how you want to come off and the art that you want to create. Or you're a two, and you're always the person at the birthday party, like putting the extra trash in a trash bag or whatever that might look like for you. So there's. There's so many things that. I think this is why the Enneagram is just so substantial in my life. And I would love for as many people to touch on it as possible because there's so much to be learned about the way other people are perceiving us. And I think that's truly what the Enneagram helps us understand, is that this is how the world is seeing you.
- [34:12]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. Yeah. And this is the lens that you tend to look at the world through. We all know anybody listening to this podcast knows how different the world can look when you switch up your lens. So.
- [34:26]
Ellie McKinney
Yeah.
- [34:28]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. Well, it has been a true pleasure getting to geek out about this with you. I would love for you to share where everyone can find you, follow you. I know that you host workshops from time to time.
- [34:42]
Ellie McKinney
Yes. Come hang out. So feel free to DM me if you love Enneagrams too. I'm the same. I'm like, let's talk about this always. I. You can find me on Instagram, Ellie McKinney Photography. And then I also have Ellie McKinney Education, which is where I put a lot of my workshop information. But Ellie mckinney.com different ways to reach out. And I love conversations around Enneagram and business growth, so I'm here for it.
- [35:08]
Anna Mi Tonkin
So good. And you're right down the street from me, so.
- [35:11]
Ellie McKinney
Right down the street.
- [35:13]
Anna Mi Tonkin
So good. Well, I will look forward to talking to you again soon and maybe one of these days actually getting together for coffee.
- [35:20]
Ellie McKinney
Have a great day. Yes. Let's do it.
- [35:22]
Anna Mi Tonkin
Yeah. Thank you.
- [35:24]
Ellie McKinney
Well, that's it for this week's episode of this can't be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads@thiscantbethard.com learn. If you like the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review in itunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.