← This Can't Be That Hard
This Can't Be That Hard
322 - How to Become the Most Valuable Person in the Room with Miles Witt Boyer
00:41:41
Loading summary
Transcript97 lines
- [00:00]
Annemie Tonkin
There are photographers, and I'm sure none of them are listening to this show, but who show up to a job, they take their photos, and they call it a day, Right? And no matter how amazing those photos might be, I promise you that those photographers struggle to stay in business. Then there are the photographers who are quietly running the show behind the scenes. They're calming nerves, calming toddlers reading the room. They are creating an experience that their clients won't just remember, but really feel when they're looking at their photos. Today's guest, Miles Whit Boyer, is one of those photographers. He's an internationally published wedding and commercial photographer. He's a Fujifilm ambassador, and he's the founder of the photographic collective. But what's special about Miles is more than that. It's the fact that he has built a career not just on beautiful images, but on doing everything he can to be the most valuable person in the room. In today's conversation, we talk about what it means to lead with service, how adding value before the shutter ever clicks can elevate your art and your pressing, and why being deeply present is the best marketing strategy that you've probably never tried. This episode is a masterclass in soft skills. It's a masterclass in big perspective, and it is so important for sustainable success. There's a little bit of tough love in here, There's a lot of wisdom, and there's more than a few moments that might make you put down your camera, take a breath, and really rethink the way that you show up. So, without further ado, let's get into it. Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. My name is Annemie Tonkin, and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable business businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it, and I can show you how. Myles Whit Boyer. Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. It's great to have you. How are you doing today?
- [02:15]
Miles Whit Boyer
Hey, I'm super good. It's. It's kind of cool to be here. This is fun. Am I allowed to say that I'm nervous? I shouldn't be nervous.
- [02:21]
Annemie Tonkin
You should not be nervous. You definitely should not be nervous. Not only do you know what you're doing, but I promise I don't bite. This is just me and you and a little chat in front of a whole bunch of other People, apparently.
- [02:34]
Miles Whit Boyer
In front of. Yeah, bajillions of humans.
- [02:37]
Annemie Tonkin
Oh, yeah, bajillions. Likewise.
- [02:40]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah. I mean, come on. I'm good. I. I feel. I feel like this is going to be a really cool one. And I've done. I have done this a lot, but I. I kind of adore your. Your angle, like your perspective. Can I tell you, you've got, like, a super cool voice for this.
- [02:57]
Annemie Tonkin
Oh, thank you. That's very nice of you to say. Having to listen to myself over and over and over again, especially in the beginning when I was doing all my own editing. I think I've tuned my voice a little bit, but thank you.
- [03:11]
Miles Whit Boyer
It's the pacing is what changes, isn't it?
- [03:14]
Annemie Tonkin
It is.
- [03:15]
Miles Whit Boyer
My first, like 15 episodes were painful. I don't know if they're less. Maybe I just stopped listening to myself, but they were painful. I was like, man, I'm so articulate and I'm like. I sound. I sound like an absolute idiot.
- [03:27]
Annemie Tonkin
Right. I suppose if any of us goes back ever in the Wayback Machine and looks at our original websites or anything like that, it's. It's much the same, right? There's. You have to be willing to be new at something.
- [03:38]
Miles Whit Boyer
God, thank God for progression.
- [03:40]
Annemie Tonkin
Indeed, indeed. Well, tell everybody a little bit about you and your story. I imagine especially our wedding listeners out there probably already know who you are, but there are a lot of portrait photographers in the audience who may not have come across you. No, no, no. But yeah, just give. Give everybody the sort of the 10,000 foot view.
- [04:02]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah, let's go. Okay. So, yeah, my name is Miles Whitboyer. I go by all three names because there's actually another photographer named Miles Boyer. So I'm a wedding. Predominantly a wedding and commercial photographer. I don't shoot a ton of portrait work these days, but. But I can speak to the portrait people. I've done a lot. You guys have done a lot. Based in Bentonville, Arkansas. I mean, over the course of the last, like 15, 16 years, I think we've done events in over 40 states now in like 14 countries. Um, so. And kind of kind of run the gamut. Done. Done sort of the cool, like, global sponsorship gig and lots of brand partnerships and won the awards and sort of done all of the stuff. These days, if I'm honest with you, I think probably the most humbling and exciting part of my career is that all. Not all of that is behind me, but so much of that, like, young man's, like, vanity game you is. I've checked it off, and I've realized it doesn't really change much. And so now I get to talk with sort of a level of calm to people and say, like, hey, let's focus on what matters. And actually, especially your portrait crowd. Like, I'm excited to dig into the conversations of, like, hey, how do. How do we get past our insecurities? How do we check, like, comparison complexes at the door? And how do we serve people really well? And then what does that mean for our work? Like, when we double down on that, what is. What does that do? Because I've seen, like, wild growth in my. In my career and honestly, just in my art since I started giving. Giving away more.
- [05:37]
Annemie Tonkin
Yeah, interesting. Okay. I love that angle that we're entering in on this, because there is an arc for sure, in. I. I'm sure it's true in any career and on any career path, but I don't know a creative out there who doesn't start off in some way feeling like they have to prove the worth of what they offer, probably ultimately to themselves. But certainly, you know, there's this kind of rat race out there of, you know, you gotta pay me for this, and here's why. It's worth what it's worth. I think you and I have been in business for a similar amount of time, and it is. It is funny how one day you kind of wake up and are like, oh, I'm not doing that anymore. Because somehow somewhere I got to a point where that didn't feel necessary. And I. I agree with you. I feel like it has more to do with your internal monologue than it does with anything that you have or have not proven out in the world. So with that, let's kind of dive right in. Before we started recording, we were talking about this concept of being the most valuable person at a wedding or in the. You know, in the commercial shoot that you're doing, whatever showing up in this capacity to serve. Talk to me a little bit about where that idea first took root for you.
- [06:59]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah, okay. Well, I can actually, like, pinpoint it. So I spent a couple years already well into my wedding career, but I spent a couple years as a college professor at a film school. If you've never done that, I could tell you, like, that's trial by fire. That's learning how to teach in. In the hot seat because you're. You're speaking to people that just inherently don' Care what you have to say. And it's sort of ironic because they're paying so much money to hear what you have to say. And so being an entertainer as a college professor is almost like crucial if you, if you want people to actually like absorb anything. And so I was having a conversation about how a successful photographer backs into their pricing. Like, where does that come from? And why are there so many different pricing models? And largely if you chase one of them for long enough, it will likely work. And so like, how do you, how do you decide that and where does all of that, that come from? And we started kind of going down this rabbit trail of the difference between value and worth, right? Like what's the difference between what something costs and what it's worth is? And a lot of that has to do with how grows over time, like what the return on that investment is. And this sentence sort of like flew out of my mouth. It was a moment of sort of like ironic clarity because I was just trying to keep these kids plugged in. But as soon as it, I said it, it was shocking to me. I was like, not only did I need to hear that, but I need to repeat that. That's something that needs to be on like a post it note, you know, on my mirror type of thing. But what I said was, if you want to be the most valuable person in the room, add the most value to the most people in the room. And I watched my students that I had not been able to like, some of them that I felt like I had not like really gotten through to. I watched those kids sit back and replay that sentence in their head. And then I got in the car after that class and I sat back and I replayed that sentence in my head and I was like, man, that, that's it. Like that is, is truly that. I don't know if I would call it the secret, but like, that's the answer is most of us want to feel valuable, but we're so scared to add value. But when everybody in a room is relying on you for your perspective or your voice or your calm or your pacing or your level of respect, and then for your art, you are just that the, the level of value is just, it's, it's unmatched. But as long as you're, you're niching down so much that the only thing that you're providing to people are these files that they download and then put, you know, put in a 1 inch at most a 1 inch by 1 inch square on their phone, right? You really just aren't all that valuable. And how can you increase your price if you don't increase your Value.
- [09:56]
Annemie Tonkin
Amazing. Yes. Okay, so this is, that's a, that's a big fun pot to dive into. Tell me. I'm just going to have you dive into it first. What does, so what does value look like beyond the images? Right. Can you give me examples of where you were adding value that maybe didn't even have anything to do with the photos that you were eventually going to be delivering for your clients? Is that emotional? Is it logistical? Like, how does that work?
- [10:29]
Miles Whit Boyer
I mean, I think all of those things. Yes, the answer is yes. I mean, more than 50% of our time now in the wedding world, more than 50% of my, of my hours allotted to my clients is in pre production. That's very unique. You know, a lot of people will call, here's, here's a hot take. But a lot of people will call me and ask about the, like the luxury wedding world and when I laugh at them, because that's not a word that people that are in that world use. And so like, why would you use a word to speak beneath your own clientele? That's absurd. But, but people will ask about that and they'll say like, you know, how do you breach into that market? And the answer is you pre produce, you get out ahead of all of the problems. You see everything before it happens. That doesn't mean that you provoke every movement. In fact, actually we still are about a 90% documentary based photography company. But being a documentary photographer doesn't give you a, like a, an endless level of excuses for why the work doesn't look good.
- [11:28]
Annemie Tonkin
Right?
- [11:29]
Miles Whit Boyer
Right. So you, you have to get out ahead of things. And so what that has meant for my career over the course of 600 weddings has been I know how to glue on and fix false eyelashes.
- [11:39]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [11:40]
Miles Whit Boyer
I put in almost every week. I'm the one that puts in the veil. I know how to fix and adjust Spanx. I can bustle any dress for any woman in any way. And then at the same time, I can put my arm around the bride's mom and give her space and say like, hey, instead of getting this, this moment clunky with a photo, let's make a memory like, why don't I give you a minute to take a breath and just soak this up and I can hold grandma's hand and help her into the family photos and then flirt with her and play with her and get her to actually smile.
- [12:16]
Annemie Tonkin
Right?
- [12:17]
Miles Whit Boyer
Right. And I think what happens in most of our industry these days, and this is really evident in, in the wedding world, but it is I mean, it's happening across, across the board to everyone holding a camera. We've been influenced by the influencers and we don't know it, right. And so there's a, there's a large swath of the industry now that are so self absorbed and, and, but it's not malicious. They're just so self absorbed that they're taking these photos and they're calling it content and they're not realizing that like that moment where you told all the bridesmaids to fake laugh, you stole the joy from the moment that was theirs and you made it yours and you did it for you. And in your mind you're thinking like, oh, they're gonna love this picture of them laughing. But you're not realizing that the return on the investment is a photo of them not laughing at anything real, right? And so once the vanity wears off, there's no appreciation to that moment. So being the person then that can walk in, that can add actual laughter, actual social tact to a moment. And that's really intimidating for a lot of people. And I listen to that's not lost on me. I feel very blessed to say, like, from a personality perspective, I've been able to work who I am into my career, but it's also not an excuse to not do that. Anyway, I would say, like, at this point, again, if we're going to add value, we have to add cohesive value. I have to be able to have a conversation with a lighting tech who is really passionate about his job and say, hey, you're doing a great job. However, right? I have an opportunity to sort of be a liaison and sort of a calm voice in the storm and then for my photos to be a byproduct of that calm. So I don't know if that answers your question or not.
- [14:03]
Annemie Tonkin
It totally does. I feel like there is so much more to your point. There is so much more to what we provide than just the images. And so much of it, especially in a situation like a wedding day, has to do with making sure that you are creating an environment in which you're able to do your best work, which often translates into adding to the enjoyment of the experience. I used to shoot weddings, you know, like in the first five years of my business. And sometimes I would second shoot for people. And one time I second shot for a photographer locally who the first dance was getting ready to happen and I'm getting, you know, ready to photograph it. And he was like, actually, instead of you photographing this, I'm just gonn Photograph it. I need you to go hold this light on the couple while they're dancing. And he hands me like a high powered flashlight, basically. And it was, it was not something that I would purchase at bh. It would be like you'd buy it at Home Depot. And he had me stand on the dance floor and like spotlight this couple while he photographed them. And I don't even care, honestly how the photos came out because I was so mortified.
- [15:15]
Miles Whit Boyer
It was bizarre to be part of that.
- [15:17]
Annemie Tonkin
And it was so obviously like I'm in their way and I'm, you know, and so it's, I think there is something to be said for not feeling like you need to completely fade into the woodwork. I mean, having conversations with people, participating in many ways I think can actually add to it. But there is that needle to thread where it's like, how can we serve them to both make the photos that we want to make and to also let them have their day?
- [15:43]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah, 100%. I mean, people that will, that have heard me on other podcasts are going to immediately recognize this, the sentence. But I say a lot. The strongest marketing goal for a great photographer, and I would say that this goes, you know, into, well, into portrait work as well, is for your clients to fall in love with the photographer before they see the photography. Because especially in the wedding world, I mean, maybe 90%, maybe more of the room won't see the gallery, right? But, but they are never going to forget you standing on the dance floor with, with the torch, you know, like, and the fact that they couldn't see the first dance, they're never going to forget that every time you step in front of the bride's parents during the ceremony, they're never going to forget it. The fact that you stood dead center in the aisle and blocked the ceremony for a third of the people the entire time out of a fear that that kiss was going to sneak up on you.
- [16:36]
Annemie Tonkin
Right?
- [16:36]
Miles Whit Boyer
They're never going to forget it. And I think that that goes so far down, down the rabbit hole, even into, you know, I mean, there were years in there where we shot, for instance, a lot of seniors, we did a lot of seniors. And what I realized was when, when this 17 year old kid steps out of the car and they're anxious and they're a little nervous and they're, they, maybe they're excited or maybe they're just doing this because mom told them to and I don't look like the type of person that they can relate to. I have completely justified all Their fears. I've brought all their insecurities to the top. But when they step out of the car and I'm somebody that they maybe not aspired to, to be like, but, but can. But can look up to and say, like, okay, cool. Like, you're actually.
- [17:15]
Annemie Tonkin
You.
- [17:16]
Miles Whit Boyer
You look like you're good at your job and you look like you're going to protect me in my insecurities, you know, when, when we have that air to us. Oh, my gosh. The, the work. I mean, this has to come back to, like, we're. We're photographers, right? So, like, we're not therapists. So at some point it has to come back.
- [17:31]
Annemie Tonkin
Sometimes it feels that way.
- [17:32]
Miles Whit Boyer
But, but, but if it doesn't empower. I guess my point is if it doesn't empower the photography, then it's wasted effort.
- [17:37]
Annemie Tonkin
Right?
- [17:38]
Miles Whit Boyer
So, like, you could be the most charming person in the room, but if it doesn't impact your photography, then what's the point? Right? And so I, I think that there's just so much, so much incredible value, to be honest, in just this conversation. And, and the irony is, like, this is the conversation that there isn't a platform on earth. Like, WPPI isn't going to bring me in to have this chat. You know, PPE won't. It won't let me stand on a platform and have this chat because it's not what sells. Like, what's sexy is if all of your lenses were a 1.2, all your problems would be solved.
- [18:14]
Annemie Tonkin
Right?
- [18:15]
Miles Whit Boyer
And the reality is, like, actually, if you would learn how to hold a camera in one hand and a scotch in the other and let everybody have fun around you, then your problems will solve themselves.
- [18:25]
Annemie Tonkin
Yeah. I say this a lot. Probably not anyone, but a lot of people can learn how to operate a camera. Technically, it's not that complicated. This can't be that hard. And the much harder and much.
- [18:40]
Miles Whit Boyer
I see what you did there.
- [18:41]
Annemie Tonkin
Yeah. You saw the longer arc of our sort of learning in this industry is really figuring out how to weave that personality piece into it. Because obviously we're all. We all are who we are. And anyone out there trying to be super funny, who's not super funny or trying to be. Yeah. Right. We all fall into that at times where we. We try and put on our chameleon suit, but working with what we have in terms of our personality and interacting with people in a way that puts them at ease and makes them genuinely smile or relax or, you know, just sort of assume like, oh, she's Got this or he's got this. I don't have to micromanage them with a list of like, we're going to take this shot and this shot and this shot. And have you gotten it from this angle yet? Like, if they're thinking that way, you're not doing your job. And it takes a while to kind of get to that level of comfort with who you are, no matter who it is that you're serving. Because of course the people that you work with, whether you're photographing a wedding or a family or in a commercial setting or anything else that's going to vary from job to job, it always looks a little bit different.
- [19:55]
Miles Whit Boyer
I mean, I, I think that the answer is always going to come back to are you putting in more work for your couples or your clients or your, you know, commercial gigs? Are you putting in more effort before than you are into your own insecurities? So like, are you, are you spending more hours doom scrolling other people's work that you wish your work looked like than you are in actually changing the way that your work looks? Because I think the answer there is like, when was the last time that you rolled up for a portrait session 90 minutes early to just walk the entire set? Go ahead and take. I've seen so many photographers with so many creative ideas on how they do this and I've seen photographers that like their first 15 shots on the card are the locations they want to go to so they can scroll back through the beginning images and say like, oh yeah, that's right. I was inspired by the light here. I wanted to touch this or, or whatever. Or photographers that'll just have like a notes app that's on their, you know, their Apple Watch that they can just scroll through for ideas or, or whatever. But the reality is like that time is, is not wasted time ever. But when we build our businesses based on the fact that it's like, well, you're going to pay me for this one hour and then the editing time for this one hour, it's really short sighted. And if we want to increase our hourly value, we have to first increase our hours. And so like go put in the extra effort. And so you know what that means in, in a practical stance, I guess for me at this point is, is we, we chuckling as a company. This last Saturday we finally had the most like beautiful bluebird day. But it was the first wedding of the year for us and we shoot large like very high end weddings. It was the first wedding of the year that it hadn't rained.
- [21:42]
Annemie Tonkin
Oh, wow.
- [21:43]
Miles Whit Boyer
Every single wedding day has been a rain day for all of 2025.
- [21:48]
Annemie Tonkin
Yeah.
- [21:48]
Miles Whit Boyer
And y' all, that's the type of thing that like, derail brides and often photographers.
- [21:54]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [21:55]
Miles Whit Boyer
Because they haven't spent any time whatsoever thinking through, like, the what ifs and because we have literal diagrams, like drawn out diagrams of where we're going to go, how we're going to solve for things if the rain shifts, if the wind shows up, if it's too hot or too cold. What, like, what's the game plan? So that as long as we operate inside that structure, there's complete freedom. And the way that, that looks tangibly is so beautiful. And it's, it's something as simple as looking at a, you know, a bride that's getting dressed and saying like, hey, you have to put on your earrings anyway. Why don't you go put on your earrings next to that big, beautiful window? That's it. This isn't like, you know, overproduction, but if you don't ever take the time to find the big beautiful window and to move the earrings, then you're just reacting to the fact that she's like, getting dressed in a closet.
- [22:45]
Annemie Tonkin
Under the overhead lights.
- [22:47]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah. Yes. Underneath can lights with fluorescent sconces.
- [22:50]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [22:50]
Miles Whit Boyer
And, and, and so, you know, again, like, I don't know, maybe we're talking in circles here, but I think that there's just so much freedom in encouraging photographers to like, set the camera down and visualize what is it that you want out of this and what is it that's going to make your clients so happy and where do those things, those parallels, where, where do they connect? That's why I mentioned earlier us being like a 90% documentary company, because the way that we communicate with our clients is we're going to invest so heavily in the 10% that my soul is completely fed off the creativity and the art in that 10% and the other 90%, I'm locked in, I'm plugged in, I'm going. But in that 10%, we're going to create art together collaboratively. That's so beautiful that you'll be able to tell that I just put hours and hours of thought into how that was going to happen. And I mean, there's the value right there.
- [23:48]
Annemie Tonkin
Yeah. So I feel like that's kind of the perfect bridge. I always like to bring things back from, to the, like, business side of things.
- [23:57]
Miles Whit Boyer
Because you're good at this.
- [23:58]
Annemie Tonkin
It's. Well, it's apparently just the way that my Brain is wired. But thank you. All of these things. If someone's listening and they don't, if they're not nodding along, if instead they're sort of writing this down and they're like, how does this make sense in my business? My guess is that that is someone who is earlier in business and it has just not started to recognize those puzzle pieces fitting together. Because I think that for some people it's intentional and for other people it happens over time kind of unintentionally. But from a business standpoint, let's talk a little bit about how focusing on having that high value presence and creating that high value experience has shaped your business. Right. So referrals, pricing, client loyalty, those kinds of things over time.
- [24:49]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah, I mean, it is, it, it is my entire marketing strategy. The whole thing is client experience. That's the end of this whole story for me. Often you'll see like a cart before the horse in, in photo workshops, right, where they'll say, like, we're going to avatar your ideal client. Write down everything that you can possibly think about that person. And we're going to try and like visualize where is that person hanging out and how are we, how are we going to connect with them? And, and most of the time, if we're honest, what ends up happening is we actually downgrade that client to somebody that we have access to. And so instead of saying like, hey, I want, you know, the couple that can afford. I don't know if you, if you saw this this morning, which I know by the time we post this, this will be old, but Jose Villa posted a series of shots that were taken at a chateau in France this morning that he mentions in the caption. It was a 45 day build on this wedding. 45 day built on this thing nobody's writing down in their avatar. You know, I would like a couple who can drop $3.6 million on a chateau in France, spend a month and a half building out their wedding, and then fly me and my entire team in to shoot this thing on film. Nobody's doing that. Nobody's doing it. So what they're doing is they are, again, they're speaking beneath their ideal clientele and they're hoping that somehow this, like, map draws itself. And I think that the answer is, is first. Instead of like trying to figure out who your ideal clientele is, I think it's first trying to figure out who you are as an artist. Let's, let's use big names again. Maybe what everybody needs to hear is, and I can't remember which episode this was, but I, but I heard an interview at one point with FAIR or CD where he said that one of the most important things that ever happened in his career was actually charging less because he'd gotten into a clientele that wasn't creative anymore. They wanted him to, to create work that didn't feel like him.
- [26:46]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [26:48]
Miles Whit Boyer
But he had enough like, wherewithal as a creative, as an, as an artist to know I actually can charge less than I'm charging right now and the profit shift will be in my joy.
- [26:59]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [27:00]
Miles Whit Boyer
That is so cool.
- [27:02]
Annemie Tonkin
So I, I had a similar experience in terms of when I was navigating that like finding my specific spot in the market. When I started out, the whole concept was charge as much as possible, get these, you know, to use, to borrow your phrase, these luxury clients and provide this luxury experience, whatever. And so I was just sort of like aiming higher and higher and higher from a price point perspective. But I found at some point that I hit, and I live in North Carolina, there was this weird wall beyond which when I was charging these prices, I was getting clients. That wasn't the issue. But I didn't love hanging out with those clients.
- [27:45]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah.
- [27:46]
Annemie Tonkin
And I didn't love what they were doing with their photos. Like there were these, you know, giant framed prints of their family over the mantle. And I was like, that should probably just be a normal piece of art and that, you know, that's fine for somebody. But I, I found like, ah, this isn't really where I want to be spending my time. I ended up bringing my prices back down just a little bit to a point where I was getting the clients that I really enjoyed working with, where I would walk into their house and feel genuinely excited about, like, oh, my art is going to be interspersed in this house. Or like these people's friends are going to come over and then they're going to want to hire me. And that lit me up. And it, it's not always the tippy top of the market. It depends on who you are and the way that. So I love the fact that you're talking about leading with your own sort of preferences. And I don't want to say comfort zone because I feel like all of us have to push a little beyond our comfort zone, especially in the beginning.
- [28:43]
Miles Whit Boyer
Well, that's where the art falls. Right. Like I, I feel like art hides in friction. Like if anything is too easy, then, then it's. I have a hard time calling it art. Like you have to create from a stance of being a little bit off balance, like, that's an okay thing. I actually, like, that's a really beneficial thing. But again, I think like for the people that are curious, like, what does this look like in, in practicality, one of the best pieces of advice I can, I can give here, let's, let's back it out, out of the industry and give you like an analogy. So I also am a soccer coach. I coach both of my, both of my guys, my boys, and, and I was a fairly high level soccer player at one point in my life. And I tell those boys a lot that, you know, like, we train three days a week, two days a week, year round, but three days a week, sometimes up to four days a week during the season. Every single team that we play is training three days a week, all of them. That doesn't mean that the standard is three days a week. It means that the minimum is three days a week. If we want to win, if we want to succeed, if we want to grow as a team, we have to exceed the minimum. And our value as a team is, is not based on whether or not those three training sessions a week are like better than everybody else's. Our value is based on whether or not we win or lose when we play those other teams. So I think the way that that translates into us as business owners without being like hyper competitive is understanding that if you're getting the majority of your knowledge and your inspiration from someplace like Instagram where everybody else is getting their knowledge and their inspiration, or you're taking, and this isn't like a huge knock, but you're, you're taking the exact same educational classes from the exact same educators as everybody that you're competing against. All that you're doing is contributing to the minimum. You're not raising the standard of your work or of your career or your potential. And you're certainly not pushing that off onto your clients. You're, you're just contributing to the minimum. And that's a really harsh reality for a lot of people. But the, the truth is like, if what you're doing is going to the world's largest wedding summits and hoping that somehow you're going to be the cream of the crop in a room with 10,000, it's not, it's not going to happen. It's absolutely not going to happen. Those industries are built to commoditize artists and it's a race to the bottom. And if you want to be at the top, you're going to have to put in More than three sessions a week. Like, you're going to have to work a little harder.
- [31:23]
Annemie Tonkin
All right? And as we sort of wind this around, my only concern, when I start saying, you know, work harder, work harder, because I totally agree with you, like you do, you have to do something different. You have to kind of stake your claim or make your mark or whatever you want to call it. But at the same time, there are people out there who are spinning their wheels so hard. And you know, we all know so many creatives, photographers, whatever, who over deliver in a way that ultimately cannibalizes their business. So I would love to hear. You know, you wear a lot of hats, right? You're a photographer, an educator, a podcaster, a dad, like all these different things. So how do you balance that where you are going above and beyond put, you know, separating yourself from the crowd, adding all this value, while also making sure that you are protecting your own time, your own creative spark, all those kinds of things, because you've been in business for a long time. Burnout is a real thing. Where do you find that combination?
- [32:32]
Miles Whit Boyer
What an incredible question. Yeah. First, I don't want to portray as though I have all this worked out by any means. My wife will listen to this episode and she will chuckle at my answer it to, to this question like I was to those college kids. I'm speaking to myself here and just hoping that some wisdom rubs off. There's osmosis happening. I'm a huge believer in the fact that maybe especially for artists, multitasking is a cancer. That when we convince ourselves that we can do two or three or four things at once, we stop doing any of those things truly well, and we stop getting better at those things. So, so the first place to go with wearing multiple hats is only wearing one at a time. So when I'm in a podcast interview, I'm all in. Everything else is silenced, muted. I have time set aside to make a fresh cup of coffee, to. To do this right because it's the respectful thing to do for you and for your listeners. But also it's. It's putting my best foot forward where I don't feel off balance or shaken.
- [33:31]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [33:32]
Miles Whit Boyer
When I'm a dad, I need my phone pre programmed on a personal mode so that my clients can't reach me. I. My kids deserve that. Like they. They don't need a dad that was named one of the top wedding photographers in the world. They need a dad that will go roll around in the backyard and jump on the trampoline with them and they don't care how the mortgage gets paid. I do, obviously, but they don't. Now when I put on the hat that is me as an artist and as a business owner, I have to be just as plugged in on that and I have to understand that there is only two options. Like, there is no such thing as an artist that plateaus. It doesn't exist. The moment that you have plateaued in your creativity or in your business, you are on your way down because everything else is rising around you. Right? So if we take this whole like hustle and grind mentality and we wake up and we just kill ourselves all day long and we get to the end of every day and we collapse in a bed exhausted, how can we possibly create something we're proud of, you know, from, from that posture? And then at the same time, if we make every excuse that, you know, I just didn't feel it today, or, you know, my inbox is overwhelming, or, you know, I'll deal with taxes later, how can we possibly expect that our business is going to grow so.
- [34:53]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [34:53]
Miles Whit Boyer
I think that there just has to be an all in concept that allows for guardrails that like, if, if I'm all in, if I'm plugged in on my business at any given moment, the best thing that I can do is prioritize how I'm going to spend that time where I'm, where I'm going to start, and then check things. Literally just check things off the list. So here's, here's a hot take. I've heard several educators that I don't, I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with everything that they say, but I've heard several educators use things like, what are they maas money or. No, MMA is money making activities. Like always prioritize new, new clients to existing ones because it's, it's an opportunity to. And I laugh at that because I'm like, good lord, that means that you're just constantly bait and switching everybody that signs a contract.
- [35:42]
Annemie Tonkin
Yeah.
- [35:44]
Miles Whit Boyer
So client. So prioritize the ones that are waiting, like love on them.
- [35:50]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [35:50]
Miles Whit Boyer
A few years ago, one of the guys that worked for me for like nine years, brilliant guy, Brandon Buccheri, who's still a very good friend of mine, he suggested to me out of the blue, I have no ide where this came from. But he said, hey, open up your client or your contacts on your phone every day. Completely scroll randomly. I mean, we've got hundreds, all of us have hundreds of contacts, right? Scroll completely randomly on five different people. Drop those five people a text that says, like, hey, you just popped into my head. How are you doing? Catch me up on life. What's going on? If you did that five days a week, that's 25 new conversations at the end of every single week that you wouldn't have had without that practice. It takes five minutes, right? And I have had so many people over the course of the last several years of me doing that write me back and say, oh, my gosh, I was just thinking about you, or, how did you know my best friend just got engaged? It's just taking the opportunity to do, like, tiny little practices, little things where you just prioritize people and put the people first.
- [36:52]
Annemie Tonkin
There are so many great takeaways from. I'm sitting here, as I often do, as I start to wrap up a conversation. I'm thinking about recording my intro and I'm like, oh, where am I even gonna start? I'm gonna be like, then we talked about this.
- [37:04]
Miles Whit Boyer
And then you just told everybody that you record your intro afterwards.
- [37:10]
Annemie Tonkin
I know. Here, come on, behind the curtain. No, I do. Because of course I don't always know what we're going to talk about, and today is a perfect illustration of that. But I really appreciate your perspective on all of this. I think this will be one that not only do I go back and listen to, but I know people are going to listen to it more than once because there are. There are so many little bits and pie there that are worth considering. And just kind of sometimes it's not so much like, here's this action item I'm going to take. It's like, I'm going to put all this in my proverbial pipe and smoke it. Because it's like, I just need this to kind of percolate down. And, you know, even 15 plus years in business, I still need that from time to time. So thank you.
- [37:53]
Miles Whit Boyer
Oh, gosh, no, don't. We. We all do. I. Can I. Can I give you, or maybe all of your listeners a. Like an action item? How about that? Can I give everyone something that. It's like, if you only did this, it will change. I promise. It'll change your business.
- [38:07]
Annemie Tonkin
Yeah.
- [38:08]
Miles Whit Boyer
Go analog in as many ways as you can today. And start by just getting a notebook and a pen and stop convincing yourself that, like, when you digitize things, you're more organized. Or like that remarkable pad that you invested $600 in is a. Is a cool way to, like, stop making excuses. It's all bull. Write down a few things. That you need to commit to getting done today and then don't go to sleep until you do it.
- [38:37]
Annemie Tonkin
Yeah. And those kinds of commitments to yourself and saying, I'm going to get this done, I am going to finish this. When you, in my experience, make a practice of that and you actually get good at following through on the things that you say you're going to follow through on for yourself, it starts to show up, up for your clients, it starts to show up for your family and your friends. So I, I think that's a great.
- [39:04]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah.
- [39:05]
Annemie Tonkin
Way to get started. And I'm all about the real notebook.
- [39:08]
Miles Whit Boyer
Well, it's just like we, people, people are desperate to find things we can rely on. Yeah. Like, we're absolutely desperate for that. And, but we have a hard time kind of understanding where that comes from. And I think the, the truth of the matter is that most of us aren't all that reliable. We break promises to ourselves on a daily basis. Right.
- [39:27]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [39:27]
Miles Whit Boyer
Like, oh, I'm gonna get 10,000 steps a day. Well, tomorrow. Or like, I'm gonna start watching what I eat. But you know, like, within reason, like, we, we are so quick to make excuses in our own lives. And the way that, that plays out in our relationships with other people is direct. Like, we don't rely on ourselves and no one else can rely on us either.
- [39:49]
Annemie Tonkin
Right.
- [39:50]
Miles Whit Boyer
So just start making commitments to yourself and then like, follow through.
- [39:54]
Annemie Tonkin
So good. Let everybody know where they can connect with you, see your beautiful work and, and learn more.
- [40:02]
Miles Whit Boyer
Let's just do this. Let's get, let's just do Instagram. That's the easiest place to hit me. That's where everybody hangs out anyway. Just DM me at MilesWitBoyer. It's. There's no H&Witt. Witt and just DM me and give me an opportunity. I would love to meet your listeners. Like, I'd love to have an opportunity to connect and encourage and all of that stuff. And then also, this is exciting. Find us very soon over very, very soon. We're in final stages of this right now. But over in the profile shop as one of the like featured profiles with Imagine.
- [40:33]
Annemie Tonkin
Nice.
- [40:34]
Miles Whit Boyer
We have got such a cool process going on there. We hired an incredible, one of the top color scientists in my opinion in the world to back end our color process so that people can, can really utilize that, no matter the sensor or the camera or the lighting.
- [40:50]
Annemie Tonkin
For those of you who have not heard me or anybody else wax poetic, Imagine is an AI software for editing. It is an incredible tool if you haven't checked it out yet, you must.
- [41:04]
Miles Whit Boyer
Yeah, yeah. Please do. Please do.
- [41:06]
Annemie Tonkin
All right. Well, thank you so much. I hope you have a wonderful day.
- [41:10]
Miles Whit Boyer
Thank you. I appreciate you a lot. We'll do this again soon. Okay.
- [41:13]
Annemie Tonkin
Sounds fantastic. Bye. That's it for this week's episode of this Can't Be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. If you like the show, be sure to check out thiscan'tbethard.com to explore all the resources we have for photographers. And of course, it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review of the show on itunes or Spotify. As always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.