359 - Big, Bold Marketing Moves

Summary

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Podcast Summary: This Can’t Be That Hard

Episode 359: Big, Bold Marketing Moves

Host: Annemie Tonken (Guest host: Dana)
Date: March 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a practical, jam-packed “mashup” of some of the best advice previously shared on in-person (“rock”) marketing for photographers. Guest host Dana curates tactical, actionable ideas from experts for overcoming the vulnerability and challenges of marketing yourself face-to-face—including charity initiatives, client events, leveraging physical spaces, and intentional networking. The episode aims to help photographers fill in the 'rock' quadrant of their marketing ecosystem, with specific strategies, motivation, and reminders that you only need to make one bold move at a time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of In-Person (“Rock”) Marketing

• Dana introduces the “marketing ecosystem” concept, using the analogy of the March Madness bracket: social media (water), emails (sand), small nurturing touches (pebbles), and in-person ('rock') marketing.
• Many photographers avoid 'rock' marketing because it feels highly visible and vulnerable, but it’s essential for momentum and connection.

2. Pep Talk: The Value of Showing Up

• Angelica Pompey reframes networking:
  • “An invisible business doesn't get business. So, what are you doing to be visible? You want to be your backyard superhero at the end of the day… people remember, oh, you know, Angelica the photographer, they love you.” (03:39)
• Networking is about being present, making connections, and being recognized in the community.

3. Charitable Marketing Strategies (Nicole Begley)

• Silent Auctions
  • Charity silent auctions are a “triple win”—exposure for you, funds for charity, and value for the client.
  • Key Tip: Donate a product or wall art credit, not just a session fee with a small print. “You can start painting this picture of possibility for them right where the sky’s the limit.” (07:46)
  • Choose auctions thoughtfully; target organizations whose audiences align with your ideal client.
  • “7 out of my top 10 highest sales have been silent auctions over the years.” (08:25)
• Mini (“Micro”) Sessions
  • Short, streamlined sessions for awareness; can be more transactional but still profitable and community-building if structured well.
  • “The key there is make a difference, watch your time. So having things streamlined… automate as much as you can.” (16:49)
• Session Fee Fundraisers
  • Partner with smaller, passionate organizations for bigger impact.
  • Offer session specials that include a donation and a value-add for clients.
• Process and Profitability
  • Have your sales and fulfillment process clearly mapped before launching these strategies.
  • “It is important to make sure that your ducks are in a row on the back end... that's what you're doing when you get into these groups is hopefully starting to mushroom.” (21:46)

4. Hosting Your Own Gatherings (Michelle Franzetti)

• Why Live, In-Person Events Work
  • “You're a delight…people want to be around that too... Also, people are lonely. You're providing a service of being able to bring people together and give them a space to cultivate friendship.” (23:41 & 24:52)
  • In-person events as a non-salesy way to grow community, warmth, and trust.
• Event Examples
  • Galentine’s Day waffle bar, annual client parties, monthly themed gatherings (workshops, bingo, yoga)—crowdsourced and co-created.
• Building a Facebook Community
  • Groups can be more than a sales funnel—create a space that reflects your values and lets personality shine.
  • “We have all sorts of stuff, and it has become this little safe space on the Internet.” (33:17)

5. Leveraging Physical Spaces (Michelle McAfee)

• A studio is not just for taking photos; it’s a relationship and marketing engine.
• “Almost more important than the photos themselves, the way the clients feel about the experience of being photographed matters more.” (34:34)
• Creative Uses of Studio Spaces:
  • Rent to other photographers, host co-working days, workshops, book launches, and masterminds, expanding your impact and visibility.
  • Rebrand the space for community inclusion: “I took my pictures off the wall...it needed to happen.” (38:05)
  • “It's the rising tide in real life.” (42:12)

6. Intentional Networking: Getting Comfortable in the Room (Angelica Pompey)

• Setting Intentions
  • “Knowing what you're walking into… is it to bring brand visibility? Is it to get specific leads?...If you’re just going with no intention, you’re going to carry that energy.” (42:50)
• Starting Conversations
  • Approach the shyest person in the room; use open-ended questions (“How did you hear about the event?” “How did you get into this industry?”).
  • “That approach will be memorable to that person, that person's really going to remember you literally probably forever.” (44:20)
• Ask deeper questions to foster genuine connection: “What do you love—in business, in life?” (46:15)
  • “Try to tell people, talk about things that…are more about you as a person outside of a business owner. We're a wife, we're a daughter, we're a friend.” (47:00)
• The Power of the Personal Touch
  • Initial phone calls—or any warm touch point—can dramatically increase booking rates and strengthen client experience.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Angelica Pompey (03:39): “An invisible business doesn't get business.”
• Nicole Begley (07:46): “When you donate to silent auctions, 90% are my target client or more… 7 out of my top 10 highest sales have been silent auctions over the years.”
• Michelle Franzetti (23:41): “You're a delight… Also, people are lonely. You're providing a service of being able to bring people together.”
• Michelle Franzetti (33:17): “...it has become this little safe space on the Internet.”
• Michelle McAfee (34:34): “Almost more important than the photos themselves, the way the clients feel about the experience of being photographed matters more.”
• Angelica Pompey (44:20): “Go to the shyest person in the room…that person's really going to remember you literally probably forever.”
• Dana/Tonken (49:10): “Rock marketing…isn’t flashy, it’s just human.”
• Dana closing encouragement: “You don’t have to host the perfect event… But you do have to do something. One event, one partnership, one room you’re willing to walk into. Because marketing really is an ecosystem. And when all of your quadrants are filled, that is when things start to really accelerate.” (49:25)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Introduction & episode overview by Dana | | 03:01 | Pep talk: Angelica Pompey on visibility | | 04:17 | Charitable marketing: Nicole Begley’s deep-dive | | 07:46 | Key tips on structuring silent auction offers | | 14:06 | Micro/mini sessions for charity | | 17:06 | Session fee fundraisers explained | | 22:53 | “Creating the room”: Hosting your own gatherings | | 34:10 | Leveraging studio space: Michelle McAfee | | 42:35 | Practical networking advice: Angelica Pompey | | 44:20 | Conversation starters and networking hacks | | 49:10 | Final “ecosystem” reminder & motivational close |

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Actionable Takeaways

• Consider charitable marketing with carefully structured auction packages and targeted partner selection.
• Test small, fun, and frequent in-person client/community events; crowdsourcing ideas builds buy-in.
• Rethink how you (or others) can use your space—for brand-building, income, and connection.
• Set clear intentions before any networking event.
• Open conversations with curiosity and genuine, open-ended questions to form memorable connections.
• Remember: “Rock” marketing isn’t about instant wins, but about showing up in ways that add up over time.

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This episode is an encouraging and thoroughly practical playbook for any photographer who wants to get bolder—and more strategic—with their in-person marketing.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everybody, welcome back. It's Dana, your guest host for this month at this Can't Be that Hard. So last week, Anime and I talked about how marketing is an ecosystem, and we used the March Marketing Madness bracket as a metaphor. Say that five times fast. And if you remember, what I said was, if you want to win, you basically need a player in every quadrant, right? You need your water, that's your social media, you need your sand, that's your emails, you need your pebbles, those small, constant touch touches that are happening all the time to nurture people. You need the things that build authority and trust over time. But there's one quadrant that I think a lot of photographers avoid, and that is rock marketing. The in person stuff. You know what I'm talking about? I'm talking about fundraisers, client events, networking, things that feel highly visible and therefore also feel highly vulnerable. Because, look, as a photographer, I get it. Your work is really personal. Your business is personal. So when you walk into a room and you say, hi, I'm a photographer, like, this is what I do, it feels like a really big swing. And really big swings come with the possibility of really big misses. Right? So here's what I want to do. Today I went back through all of our past guests and scoured the archives for my most favorite, so smartest, most tactical and actionable ideas that I think have been shared on this podcast about in person marketing. And I pulled the best of the best. So this episode is a little bit long. It's a mashup style, but it's a very intentional one because I want this to be one that you save and come back to when you are planning your year and staring at your calendar and thinking like, okay, I really need to do something that moves the needle here. And as you're listening today, I want you to just let it wash over you and think about which of these ideas feels doable for you. You're going to hear very specific strategies around charitable marketing ideas. How to host gatherings, how to leverage physical spaces that you might have access to, and how to actually network intentionally. And you're also going to get permission to lower the bar from I need to get three clients out of this to to I just need to show up as my best self in this room or in this community. So without further ado, let's cue the music and get into it.

[B]

Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. My name is Anna Mi Tonkin, and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple Actionable strategies and systems that photographers at edge, every level of experience, can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it, and I can show you how.

[A]

Okay, you guys, I actually want to start this episode with a little pep talk before we get into all the strategy and logistics. So I'm kicking this off with a little message from Angelica Pompey, who I really think is a networking genius. And she has such a grounded and really practical way of thinking about networking as just visibility and connection. And I think that what she has to say in this little clip is a perfect reminder of why being in the room matters in the first place.

[C]

Yeah, I, I, I'm like, while networking is scary, it is probably the most powerful tool to have in your back pocket, especially as a new business owner. I tell people, an invisible business doesn't get business. So, so, like, what are you doing to be visible? And you want to be your backyard superhero at the end of the day? So people know they might forget the niche that you're in, but they'll remember, oh, you know Angelica the photographer, they love you.

[D]

Yeah, I know, right?

[C]

I think that's what people forget, too, is like, you know, when you're in front of someone's face, you're constantly reminded, oh, this is Angelica the photographer. You don't even have to say anything. People recognize you, start to recognize you, your brand. And that's the beauty of networking and getting out there and people recognizing what you do.

[A]

So once you've decided you're going to be visible, the next question becomes, where? And one of the smartest ways to get in the room without having to create the room yourself is through charitable marketing. Nicole Begley has built her entire business around the strategy. And what I love about her approach is that it is not vague. It is incredibly specific. So get out your notebooks and. And let's hear it all from Nicole.

[E]

Oh, my gosh. I built my business with charitable marketing hands down, and it's such a fun way to do this. So you know when you're starting out and you're like, okay, I have this business. I have friends and family. Like, how the heck do I market this? And how can you market it in a way that really just feels good? So one of the first ways that I started was actually silent auction. So we can kind of dive into, like, all these little sections, but the main really three ways. Silent auction, donations. I did some, like, little, I called them micro sessions, like the 20 minute kind of fundraiser sessions. And then I've done all sorts of, like, I would call them session fee fundraisers. So we can start to dive into each one of those. We can.

[F]

I'd love to.

[D]

Yeah. Okay, so let's start with silent auctions. Because it sounds like that was maybe the very first timeline. That's where that started.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So easy. And with this, and with any of this charitable marketing, it's like a triple win. So you're going to win bikes, you're going to get a new great client, you're going to make money for the charity. So they win and then your client wins because they are not only helping the charity they love, but they're also receiving what they value and love, which is your services. So, like, everybody wins in this situation. So get out of your head and just get it out there and start making these connections. So silent auctions generally are charities events. Have these galas where they have a silent auction. They get all these donations from different businesses or people in the community and they auction it off. It can be a live auction or generally what I donate to is the silent auction where people are just like writing down their bid.

[D]

Yep.

[E]

People are outbidding each other. And then at the end of the night, whoever is going to pay the most money gets the item. So I've always done that. The one caveat, big mistake that I see a lot of photographers make is they will often donate a session fee in an 8 by 10. And I mean, there are different business models out there, but generally I don't think there's a lot of photographers out there that their goal for their session is to sell 18 by 10.

[D]

Right.

[E]

So I highly recommend if you're going to do a silent auction, that it is a product credit. And you know, it could be a product credit of like a. Your smallest wall piece. Or at the very least, maybe if you're 8 by 10 is $150, your product credit's $200.

[D]

Right.

[E]

So there's a little bit more on the table and psych with your psychology. It's a client psychology when you start to do that too. Like when they're buying a session and an 8 by 10 print, they're already thinking like, oh, I'm gonna go book the session and get an 8 by 10 print. Where.

[D]

And that's the whole thing. That's the enchilada.

[E]

Put that bow on it. We are done. That's gonna be great. I'm so excited. Where if it's a product credit you can start your conversation with how do you want to display your images? Most of my clients choose to do something for their wall and their album and this and that. And you can start painting this picture of possibility for them right where the sky's the limit. And in my experience when you donate to silent auctions, I'd say maybe 60% actually book it. Like and then of those 60% that actually follow through, man, 90% are my target client or more like reaching that whatever your average sale is. And I would say non scientifically not tracked. Just off the top of my head, 7 out of my top 10 highest sales have been silent auctions over the years.

[D]

Wow. So let me ask you this because I think one of the traps that I see people falling into with silent auctions, if they don't create a giveaway that is kind of it's an entire package like the session fee plus an 8 by 10 if they do something like a print credit or if when you do something like a print credit or what is your. How do you communicate at the auction before somebody's bid on it and then is like, oh, how much more do I have to spend? Oh, I'm not interested. How do you communicate that this is going to be a bigger investment overall beyond just saying like it's just a print credit or do you.

[E]

I've done that I think in numerous ways. So I choose my charities for my silent auctions very carefully. Definitely I'm not doing raffles where it's like here's a ticket, I drop it in. I'm not really invested in this. Right. Like my rule of thumb in my business is someone has to pay someone something somewhat significant to get in front of my lens. Like I don't photograph people for free because they're not valuing it at this point in my business. So one, some things I have none is I have put a little pricing like really pretty folded piece with just some basic like wallet pricing, album pricing out. I've also not and I didn't notice the difference at all in the result because I go through my client process. It's very education heavy. From the first time they come to my website, they see the artwork, the item that I'm displaying is a beautiful art piece. Like everything that they are seeing is luxury when they win. Yeah, when they win they get like this marathon press did it. I don't think they're doing it anymore but they have some amazing cool pieces. But it was like an eight fold little thing that it was like a present. They just Kept on wrapping and then they're certificate was in the middle. So it was like they knew this was going to be an experience from the very beginning. And I always had it too because I knew my numbers. I knew what my average sale would be. I knew that I could afford to. If someone were to come and just buy that lowest piece of wall art, like I could afford that $200 out of my business. It wouldn't, it wouldn't close my doors. So I was willing to have a higher amount that they would win. It was usually like a $500 wall art credit. So I took it further that it wasn't even a product credit, it was a wall art credit.

[D]

Right, nice.

[E]

This is what we're doing. We're doing wall art. And so yeah, they could take that 11 by 14. But through my process, when I'm asking them for what walls are you considering and we're going through and we're talking about the possibility and I'm showing them the different sizes and they're seeing their beautiful images and then we're talking about albums and like they've almost always added on. I think, I don't think in all my years anyone has ever taken just the freebie. I think the smallest has been, they've added on like $500. But I mean the largest was seven thousand dollar sale.

[D]

Right.

[E]

So I mean I love my silent auction client.

[D]

It's a good, it's a good spectrum. Yeah. I have done lots of auction sort of things over the years and I'm right there with you. Like the number one thing really is to choose your auctions wisely. And I think that part of that, and you kind of hinted at this is finding out what you, what your rights, if that's really the right phrase. But what they are willing like how the auction is going to work in terms of what you have access to. So I think it's really nice to have access to information. Sometimes you'll be able to get access not just to the winner, but anyone who bid on your, on your item and then you know, you can follow up with them and maybe make some sort of offer. I think that there are lots of ways to leverage that in a bigger way. That auction sort of space is so such a great way to not only show up and be like, you know, here I am, I'm donating something. People appreciate that you have a, like cause that you care about. And then yeah, people who are going to silent auctions have money to spend. So that's, it's a To your point, a win.

[E]

Win for sure. Yeah. It's usually a target rich environment and, and I encourage you to, to think about outside of your genre. So I'm a pet photographer, so people immediately are like, okay, the big rescue. Well, people that support the opera might also have dogs or the medical galas. Same thing if you're a family photographer. I know one of the best ones that I had was I was in Pittsburgh and it was a local hero hockey player that basically saved the Pittsburgh Penguins. There's Mary Lemieux, fundraiser for his little Austin's playroom. It was like a ladies luncheon. That was the best one year after year after year because it's, you know, these, these ladies that are supporting this, this great philanthropy, you know, and they're doing it at a lunch and it's a smaller group, but it was great. The other great one for high school senior photographers, or even as an equine photographer was the more expensive private schools when they would have their galas. I got a lot of equine high school senior clients that way. So. Yeah. So think outside of your specific little niche of, of galas and think about all the different events going on in your market.

[D]

So good. Love all of that. Okay, so step one is auctions, silent auctions, galas. Step two.

[E]

Yep. Step two. I just want to go kind of high level over this one because it is maybe not necessarily the easiest or the most financially viable, which is doing those mini session type things or the micro sessions, I like to call them. They are good if you are maybe earlier in your business and you're like, man, I just need to get some awareness marketing. I need to get my name out there. I need to have these businesses and the charity just kind of like marketing this for me and getting some people, you know, it is a little bit of a lower price point when you're doing a 20 minute session than when you're full, you know, full boutique experience. And it's a lot of work, but it can still be profitable. Yeah. So you need to kind of do the numbers and the pros and cons. But that is a great way to kind of start. It's also a good way to kind of dip your toe into like, just too much. Like, do I want to do these nice infinity session things? Yeah. Or is it like, oh, gosh, no, I don't want to do this. You know, so it's just a kind of a fun way to, to make some money. Test the waters.

[F]

Yeah.

[D]

And. And you're saying that in terms of Charitable marketing. Because when you were doing those, you were. There was like some portion of the proceeds went to.

[E]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So the way I had it set up was that the session fee or a portion of the session fee, which was like $35 per dog. So it was dog only. The keys here is I made sure it was different than my normal full session offerings. So like I was shooting on location with the dog and their family for my full sessions. This was dog only studio sessions, one dog per slot. If they had multiple dogs, they could just book multiple slots. $35 per dog. And that $35 was a donation to the Humane Society. So they would help and then they would purchase, you know, prints, digital files and some canvas. I had a couple like little collections, like199,499 and like 6.99 or something like that.

[F]

So yeah.

[E]

So it was a good day. And the key there is make a difference, watch your time. So having things streamlined. So like for a regular session, I'm doing a pre consultation call for these. No, you're getting an email with all the things. When you sign up, you're signing your contract, you're choosing your time, you're giving me your information all on a form. Like it's a lot more streamlined and automated. So I'm not spending the time. Like all the information about it is on that registration page. I don't need to be calling people building the value, talking about their dog, you know, to, to get them excited for the experience. It's like, here's what it is. Book it or not.

[D]

It's more transactional.

[E]

Yeah, yeah. So make it different than your regular sessions. Make sure your time is streamlined. Are really like the two big keys for those.

[D]

Absolutely. And then that brings us to the third.

[E]

Yeah. The session fee fundraiser, which this is essentially a way to get a handful of regular like signature session clients when you don't have the list to market to yet. So you are say, partnering with. Again, it could be any kind of event. Generally I'm a pet photographer, so I would be partnering with. I found actually smaller to medium sized rescues even more beneficial that beneficial than like the really big ones. Because my donation to them goes a lot further to their budget. Yeah. Whereas, you know, our big Western Pennsylvania Humane Society or Charlotte Mecklenburg county, like they have a huge budget. Right. So me donating 500 or $1,000, it's like, great, thanks. It's helpful. But to a small rescue, that's like really helpful. Yeah. So, yeah. And so I've also found the Supporters of the small to medium sized rescues are like rabidly in love with their hardcore. Yes.

[F]

Yeah.

[E]

So when you are then doing something for this, this rescue, oh my gosh, they love you. So it's a great way to again support the rescue. They make money, just build so much goodwill in the community and get some great clients. So win, win, win. So what this looks like is essentially you have your main public offer, you're going to take that main public offer and make something a little bit more enticing. It's not necessarily a sale. We can always have a value add instead of just like a Kohl's slash discount. And you're going to offer the special offer to their supporters and they're going to help you market it. So it's important that you come up with like the images and the marketing, like copy and just really hand them everything, like here's what you need, please help spread the word. Because they're all really busy, they don't have time to like write an email for you. You need to like write that stuff up of what you want them to share, then of course allow them to tweak it if they need be. But, but basically they're sharing that and then have some sort of urgency of an expiring, like you know, you have to book within the next seven days, whatever it is, or there's only a certain number people contact you and you basically just take them through your normal education process, your normal, your normal experience and they're just getting just a little bit of a better session fee offer. If you're doing a product credit, maybe it's a little bit extra product credit. Like it can look in so many different ways. It's just a little bit better of an offer than what it is, just a general publicly available offer. And I found those have brought in like my absolute target client. It reaches all of my session averages, all of my goals and it's just really fun and easy and you can literally rinse and repeat. Once you set this up, you can do a different rescue or a different organization each quarter, each month and you're getting your business out in front of all these different people and it's automatically building that connection with them. And then now you're building your business, you're getting the momentum in your business. Now you're going to start getting referrals for more and more people. Everyone in the market is going to say, oh, pet photography, oh, family photography. And like your name's going to come up to their, the top of mind because they've seen it in so many places.

[G]

Right.

[D]

And so what is the. When you partner with, you know, let's say this small to medium sized rescue is what is the benefit to them other than sort of being able to offer their people some kind of a deal? Is this something where the.

[E]

Yeah, some of the money goes to them.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

So that's what I usually do. A person, an amount, like if it's a $200 session fee to book, like either they get all of it or they get half of it, or the one that's worked really well for me was, I think at the time my regular session fee was 1:75 and it was just a straight session fee. And I think then at the time I made it as a, you know, a $99 session fee and it that became a full donation to the rescue. Plus then I think they got a, like a 200 product credit or something. So it was like a really good offer for them. And again, people look at that and they're like, Nicole, but weren't you worried that they were just gonna get whatever the lowest price was and like, you weren't gonna make any money? It's like, well, no, because I knew my numbers and I also was very confident in what my average sale was and knew that if I took people through the experience that I created that they would nine times out of ten, get pretty darn close to the that average sale. So.

[D]

And this is, I want to just like time out right there and underline what you're saying, which is that this strategy, these strategies that you're describing, these marketing strategies, are all dependent on you first having a process in place for both, like the sales process and then also that fulfillment process. Like, how are you going to deliver in such a way that you can, with relative accuracy, predict what you're going to end up with on the other end. And it's not going to just be like, oh, great, I just booked 15 new clients through this deal and now I don't really have any great way to take them through and make sure that this is going to be beneficial and profitable for me. So it is important to make sure that your ducks are in a row on the back end. Because also if you end up bringing those people in and they don't have a great experience, that's not going to end up turning into either repeat business or referral business, which is really, you know, what you're doing when you get into these groups is hopefully starting to mushroom. You know, the name of your business just like you were just.

[A]

Yeah, okay, so Nicole just showed you how to leverage rooms that already exist. But what if you created the room? What if instead of waiting for an invitation, you hosted the gathering yourself? Michelle Franzetti has leaned all the way into that strategy, and what she shares here is not just why gatherings work, but actually how to pull them off while still feeling authentic to yourself. Let's listen in.

[D]

Okay, so let's just talk about the why. Why do you think that live in person events have such a powerful impact when it comes to building your brand, connecting with ideal clients? You know, especially when we're talking about a service based business like photography.

[F]

Yeah, the, the happy side of it is because you're a delight. Because whoever you are listening to this right now, you're probably a delight because you are somebody running a business and you're somebody learning and growing. And I promise you, other people want to be around that too. The flip side of that, and a little like, sadder side of that is people are also lonely. I see it all the time. I'm in these groups online. Like we have one called Ladies of Lexington, and it's just a large girls group for the city that I live in. And I see friendship applications all the time. And I'm sure you've seen them online too, right? Hey, I'm this old, I have this many kids, and I just want a friend. And so I think inherently you're providing a service of being able to bring people together and give them a space to cultivate friendship. And on the other side of that, it means you get to offer something that's not necessarily selling. So if you're uncomfortable with the idea of in person events, maybe this will give you some comfort of. I know it's hard to get online and I think sometimes we feel like on, you know, Instagram or Facebook or TikTok, we're like, sell, sell, sell. Talk about myself, talk about myself. And it, it feels icky to some of us sometimes. And we could, we could unpack that on a different podcast.

[E]

Sure.

[F]

But this is an opportunity to just go do something good. Go have fun with it. Go provide an opportunity for people. We can talk about some opportunities in how that can work, but it's an opportunity to sell without feeling salesy, which is everyone's favorite way to sell.

[D]

Yes, absolutely. I have so many questions, but I feel like these questions are going to get less sort of vague and more specific once we're talking about actual events. Did you start out, I mean, it sounds like you kind of hit the Ground running in photography with this in person event mindset. But is there like an early example that you can bring forward and tell us how that, how that went?

[F]

Now, when I think back, the two earliest examples I can think of is one, Galentine's Day, which Galentine's Day is like huge now and everybody does it. But for all those listeners out there, I got there first. No, it was something that was actually.

[D]

I actually coined that frame.

[E]

Right.

[F]

That was me. Thank you. No, but so Galentine's Day was actually a big deal in the show Parks and recognition. And the lead character on that show loves waffles. And so I decided I'm gonna throw a Galentine's Day party and I'm gonna have a waffle bar. And like, pro tip, waffles are so cheap. And so if you need a party food, boxes of waffle mix are like 2 bucks and it makes like 40 waffles.

[D]

That is a yes.

[F]

And so we had a waffle bar. I rented out a little space above an ice cream shop here in my city and. And we had our first open Galentine's. You did not have to be a client of mine. I put it everywhere I could think of. It was an open invite for any woman who wants to come and hang out that night. And people showed up and they ate my very poorly decorated cookies. I thought I could do that myself. I can't. They ate my waffles, which I had to refine the process of how to contain the mix because, fun fact, the mix expands. So when I put it in containers, that didn't work. But they. They came to my imperfect event and they had fun and they had great feedback. And all of a sudden these people felt connected to me. And so it was more than just another cool person they met online. It was somebody that they had an actual memory with an actual touch point, an actual experience. And for me, as a boudoir photographer, there's really nothing more valuable than you feeling comfortable around me. That's my biggest problem I have to solve for my clients is their nervousness.

[D]

Sure.

[F]

And so for me, it was a no brainer. Another very early example. And I have to give credit where credit is due. I stole this one from Caitlin James. She does an annual get together for her clients and she had annual parties for her clients. So I started doing that around Christmas time. I had a holiday party. And anybody who had been a client or scheduled to be a client came could come to this Christmas party and just hang out and celebrate and meet other people. I have People from all different areas of my life, but there's like common threads between them.

[E]

Right.

[F]

Because they're all people who enjoy being around me. And so they also really enjoyed being around each other. And so it was this great meet and greet. And then from there it really took off. So those were the first two. Last year was kind of a fun up the game that I tried. Right. And what I did was I scheduled an in person event for every month of the year.

[D]

Wow.

[F]

There's a lot. I told you that was like the goal last year, Right. Was to do more in person things. And so the way I went about this is I have a Facebook community. It's called Franz with benefits.

[D]

And as a reminder, her last name is Franzetti.

[E]

Yes.

[F]

Yes. There are some questions on the content of the group sometimes. So I have to be very clear of what the goal of, I'm sure.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

So what I did was I put out a call and I said, hey, first of all, what kind of events do you want to see? And second of all, who has a skill to share? Who has something that they want to share with the group? And I assigned a person to each month. And so for example, one month I had a financial advisor who wanted to come in and offer a free class to help women be smarter investors. And so she came in and she offered that class and it was wildly well attended. It was so much fun. So that one's kind of serious. Right? You want to know my most requested event? I don't think anybody would ever guess it. It was bingo.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[F]

Because when I asked what people want it, like, what do you want to do with your free time? The overwhelming response was bingo.

[D]

That is hilarious. Did you give them this was like open, open ended question, not a multiple choice.

[F]

Yeah. So we're, we're always going to make like 20 pieces of content out of everything.

[E]

Right.

[F]

And so it started out an open ended question and then I took some of the top responses. Then it became possible choice.

[E]

Got it.

[F]

Then it became a sign up. You know, you took it step by step to make sure we get as much community involvement as possible. And again, that goes back to my Parks and Rec roots. I see this often. People do what I call plop decisions and they just like plop something out there.

[E]

Right.

[F]

They're just like, okay, here's this thing that I've decided you want it without really doing any research or any lead up to it. So that can be part of your in person event is like creating excitement

[D]

around what it's even going to be nice.

[F]

So we had a lot of fun. We had bingo, Had a person in the group who was a yoga instructor. So we did a yoga class one month. We had a movie night one month. All different stuff. We partnered with some other local businesses that also benefited from me bringing an audience to them. And then I benefited from the skill and service that they have to offer. And I think I should have added it up. I mean, I feel like I spent less than $200 on the whole year.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[F]

Of content and of opportunities for people to gather, because I use those relationships that you already have, like, whoever you are listening, you already have talented people in your life and you already have audience members who want to see you succeed and also want an opportunity to meet new friends. And so I think all those building blocks are already there. You just have to sit down. Pen and paper, iPad, whatever your jam is, you have to sit down and just think it through and get dates on the calendar. Because that's the hardest part, right? Is making time on our calendar. So get the dates and then we'll work on the details.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

Okay.

[D]

So this is all incredible. And there's so much to unpack, starting with having an event each month, which blows my mind. But I guess what I really want to know is back to this Facebook group that you're talking about. I'm assuming these are not just your clients. This is sort of an open ended thing. It sounds like it's all women. How did you start and nurture the growth of that Facebook group? I mean, it sounds like you're not sort of showing up there as a photographer so much as you are as a community member and like a relationship builder, which is cool. But yeah, tell me more.

[F]

I had a wonderful mentor at the time who urged me to start a group. And these VIP groups, I feel like that's what we call them most often. These VIP groups are especially prevalent in boudoir photography. For whatever reason, I think they could be equally as good in weddings and families and headshots and all that good stuff. But for whatever reason, boudoir photographers have really braced the idea of the VIP group. So she suggests that I start this group. And I'm like, I think not. I think no one on this planet needs another Facebook group. That does not appeal to me at all.

[E]

And she.

[F]

She stopped and she said, I think you do it differently, and I think you could create the space that you wanted. And the space that I wanted was somewhere to be silly and fun and weird and have a good time with it. Because that was me growing up, right? Like, I was the girl who wasn't the perfect, like, curly girl and never felt like I fit in. So I wanted to create the space that I would fit in. So we started it. And it has been one of the most unexpected and wonderful joys of business that I have. It has been such a treat. We. I mean, there's like a whole culture around it now. It's so goofy. We have different hashtags and stuff. Like, if you meet somebody that you've met out met from the group, if you meet them in real life, you take a picture and you post it with friends in the wild. If you have an anonymous question you want to ask, I do a hashtag asking for Franz. We have all sorts of stuff, and it has become this little safe space on the Internet. And as far as growing it and cultivating it, it was step by step. It was just showing up every day. And it depends on the time of year, too. I have different. I don't show up as a photographer in there constantly, but I do in chapters. And even though that doesn't sound like selling, and I'm not doing it because I want to increase my bottom line every step of the way, I'm showing people who I am. And then people can decide for themselves if that's a good fit for them for something as important as a wedding day or as intimate as a boudoir session.

[A]

I don't know about you guys, but I definitely want to be friends with Michelle. Friends with Michelle. But maybe as you were listening to her, you were thinking, okay, that all sounds amazing, but I don't even have a space where I could host things like that. And that is where this next piece gets really interesting. Because Michelle McAfee started thinking about her studio and as not just a place to take photos, but as a marketing engine, as a community space, and as a relationship builder. So let's hear her talk about how she thinks about leveraging physical spaces that you might have access to in a completely different way.

[G]

So I always knew I wanted to build, like, a studio. Like, I wanted, like, the dream studio. And I had the vision from pretty early on, and I kind of just kept, like, chipping away at it and saving for it. And randomly one day, the I was just driving, and I knew that I wanted to get out of the current studio I was in because it was too small. It's the one that was way too small. And I saw a sign for commercial space for sale. And I, like, drove by and I kind of Looked at it and I was like, well, this is interesting. And then like less than a month later, I bought it. Which was kind of wild that it happened all so fast. But I. I just, I've been thinking about it and planning it for it for years. So when the opportunity came up and it was an empty shell, so it was the opportunity for me to build it from the ground up exactly the way I wanted it. Which is the studio that I'm in now and my forever home. Yeah, but the studio now as it is, I still photograph in it a lot. But where I've really started to see the power of the studio is beyond photographing clients. It's allowed me to create this incredible experiential touch point for my clients whenever they come in, where I can design it exactly the way that I want them to feel about the photo shoot and about their photos. And I don't know if you would agree with this, but I have personally found that almost more important than the photo photos themselves, the way the clients feel about the experience of being photographed matters more. Like you could take two photographers, one whose work is incredible and amazing, but gives a terrible experience, and a photographer who has mediocre images but gives a very personalized high touch experience where the client feels so seen and, and I feel like this, the photographer who provides that over the top experience is the one that's going to continue to see the repeat clients, the word of mouth, exposure, everything like that. So experience has always been a big thing for me. But the other area of the studio that has been really cool to start to utilize and grow more is using it for marketing purposes, hosting like client appreciation events here. Creating content, just having a space to like be able to go in and create content has been huge. So there are so many other avenues that I've been able to kind of like open up with how I utilize this space outside of just while a client books me. A lot changed with COVID for obvious reasons. And I realized that I really kind of just wanted to use a studio for very particular, specific things. So if I was there for a client shoot, if I was hosting like a networking or vendor or client appreciation event, if I was, you know, recording marketing materials or content. And so the space was sitting empty and it felt like such a waste. And I started kind of thinking like beyond my uses for it and beyond also just my own personal need for it because I saw so many photographers, creative small business owners who I would like talk to and they would be like, yeah, I'd love to do that, But I don't know. A space. Yeah, I'd love to do that, but I don't have a space. And it kind of prompted this idea that like people need space and they need, in a sense almost like, like blank space that they can come into and transform into their needs. And so I really saw both an opportunity for my business to diversify its income, but also to answer a real need that was in my community of small business owners and photographers for space to actually start propelling their businesses forward. Because I had seen such growth and elevation in my business and even just in my brand. Kind of what we were talking about before, like kind of that legitimacy of it. Yeah, that I knew that other businesses could come into the space if I rebranded it properly outside of, you know, my name and my photos on the wall and allowed them to come in and have their clients have that sort of like high end luxury experience that I was offering. And so that's actually what I did with the studio was I ended up taking my name off of it. I got a new sign. It went from Michelle Lindsay photography to studio at 4:28. I took my pictures off the wall, which was like the hardest thing, I bet. Yeah, I was going to ask, but it needed, it needed, it needed to happen. It needed to happen. You know, it was a little slow going at first, but it's really started to pick up and it is been so cool to see not just photographers, but creatives and other small business owners coming into this space and finally doing things like they will say to me, oh my gosh, I have been wanting to do this thing forever and now I finally have a way to do it. So that's been really cool.

[D]

So talk a little bit about some examples of like, what are the things that people are using your studio for and kind of how does it work in this new life of the studio?

[G]

Yeah, so we obviously have a very like there is a very big pool of photographers that rent it and they use it for their own personal photo shoots and a lot of them use it for mini sessions because the space is pretty big. It's like 1100 square feet and it's got like this like really nice lounge area. So it's perfectly set up for bringing in, you know, multiple people and multiple shoots. So you can kind of have kind of clients over in the lounge area, like hanging out and waiting. And then it's got a shooting bay area with natural light and so you can be like photographing on that side while your clients are kind of waiting over there. So we have a lot of clients, photographers using it for mini sessions. And then I also in the holidays always will put up styled sets for the photographer so that way they don't have to worry about, you know, going out and buying all of that.

[E]

Setting it up. Yes.

[G]

You know, it's. They can just walk in and have a beautifully sized styled set and just be able to easily provide that to their client. All just for like a low price of renting a studio. So outside of photographers though, people have recorded podcasts here. I actually one photographer, she's using it. I love how she's using it. She has started doing co working days for her clients. So she is a brand photographer.

[D]

Yeah.

[G]

So she works, she works with a lot of small businesses so she, she wanted to start bringing them together. So she's been hosting like as kind of an appreciation to them where she'll host these co working days where they can come in and they can just kind of like talk and meet and it's great exposure for them. And then she'll usually do at the end just like this little extra thing where they'll all like create content together for their businesses. So I love that idea and how she's using that. We did a book launch here in the fall which was really, really cool. They did like their big book launch party, so. So that was really fun to see. I've had a couple of small businesses just do like, like client appreciation events, workshops, a lot of like different meetups and masterminds and things like that.

[D]

It must feel so good as the owner of this studio to see it serving so many people so well. I feel like, I think we all start out in our businesses because it's such an uphill climb to get to a place where we even have any breathing room to think about anybody but ourselves and our own businesses. It can be sort of hard to envision. But once you do get to that place of stability, you know, we all talk about this is kind of a lonely business and you're working by yourself other than the small amount of time, the small percentage of time that you actually spend with clients. And I feel like what you've done so beautifully over time with your studio is really sent like create a sense of community and shared. It's the, you know, it's the rising tide in real life. Like that's, it's worked exactly like that.

[A]

So whether you're walking into a fundraiser, hosting your own event, or leveraging a creative space strategically, at the end of the day you still have to know how to connect once you're actually in the room. And that is why I want to bring Angelica back. Because this is the part that really makes people freeze. Right.

[G]

What do I say?

[A]

Like, how do I start talking to people? And then like, okay, let's say I, I do, but then how do I follow up with people? So let's close this episode out with some very practical, very doable networking advice.

[C]

H so I think the first step before even getting in the room is really setting the intention. Knowing what you're walking into. Is the intention to meet someone that was like on the flyer, that's a speaker there. Is it to just bring brand visibility? Is it to get specific leads? Once you have that intention in mind, when you walk into the space, it becomes much easier on like how you're going to approach people. It's other if you're just going to go and you're like, I don't know why I'm here. You're gonna have that, you're gonna carry that energy. I don't know why I'm here. And it's gonna elude. When you start opening your mouth and start talking about your business, it's going to be like, I'm just here so I'm not fined. And you never want to show up in that caliber. And so once you know your intention, okay, I'm gonna try to just connect with people until talk about my business. I tell people this is my, my like the best hack. Go. If you're like one of those people that you're like, I don't know, I want to melt into floorboards. What do I do? What do I say? Go to the shyest person in the room. Go to the person that's in the corner on their phone and introduce yourself. Hey, I'm Angelica. Are you here for the event? Yes. How did you hear about the event? And I always love to lead conversation with open ended questions. I don't know about you, but it's awkward when you ask somebody a yes or no question. You're like, yeah, okay, let's see. Next question.

[E]

Right.

[D]

Which is the danger of approaching the shyest person in the room is that you do get those one word answers and then you feel like nobody wants

[E]

to talk to me.

[D]

But it may just be that they're as locked up as, you know, as you feel on the inside.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think when, when you do that approach that will be memorable to that person, that person's really going to remember you literally probably forever. Be like, oh my gosh, that woman Came up to me and she was so kind. And we both like approached a big crowd together. And sometimes you need like a counterpart to do that, feel a little bit more comfortable. And the more comfortable you get, you just start showing up by yourself, you know. But go to the shyest person room. And then the other piece is ask open ended questions. I have a free resource for those that are listening. It's literally breaking down how to craft your brand message or your message for your business, what questions to ask and how to set intentions. But one of the biggest things with open ended questions my first go to is like, how did you hear about the event?

[A]

Do you know the host?

[C]

Was it online? And it really kind of gets the wheels turning. And then my another question that I'd love to ask is, how did you get into this industry? How did you get into business? I feel like as entrepreneurs we don't share our story often. And that's when people light up. They're like, I've done this, this, that, and the third. And then I always love to follow up with tell me more. Explain further. Let, let them do a majority of the talking.

[D]

Okay, so we lead with an open ended question, but then that part of the conversation ends and they haven't started the keynote speaker or whatever's happening at that networking event yet. How do you kind of continue the conversation? I mean, I understand that some people are just naturally better at this than others. And at the same time, when you're walking up to a stranger, they may be really chatty or they may not be. Obviously if somebody is giving you the I don't want to talk signal, you can walk away, but if they're not, but they're not necessarily doing the heavy lifting with keeping the conversation going. What kinds of questions are you asking that you know, turn that small talk into more meaningful conversation?

[F]

Yes.

[C]

I love to ask people, you know, what do they love? Like, what do you love? And it could be in business, it can be in life. But like, dig deeper because I think we talk about so much surface level things, especially at conferences. You're talking to like literally hundreds of people, but it's like, what do you love? And that's gonna stand, that conversation is going to stand out versus the one that asks you, you know, what do you do? And how long you've been in business.

[E]

Sure.

[C]

And you feel like a robot, you know, asking those things. But what do you love? Like, I love that. Like, then try to see if there's a common denominator there. Or maybe it's like the complete opposite. Like, I met somebody at the conference and they were like, I love the mountains and I love like winter. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm a Florida girly. I could never, I'm not well in the snow. Like, what is snow? And like, I remember vividly what that person looked like, what they did. And like, just from that conversation of going deeper. So, yeah, I try to tell people talk about things that, like, that are more about you as a person outside of, like, outside of a business owner. We're other people, we're a wife, we're a daughter, we're a friend. Like, talk about that root of who you are.

[D]

Yeah. Which definitely, like, increases that personal connection which so often ends up leading to more business. I, at the beginning of this conversation, you were talking about how showing up in person really lets people get to know you as a person. And it's hilarious to me how much in the marketing world we talk about, you know, make sure you're showing yourself, like, show your face on your Instagram feed, talk about the things that you like and the things that are important to you outside of photography or whatever it is that you're offering. And that just happens so much more instantly and organically and without having to do, you know, get in front of the camera, all those kinds of things when you're just having a conversation with people. It's the same reason that I like having initial phone calls with inquiries, even though so much of my business is automated and, you know, pre written emails and all that sort of stuff, if I have that first conversation before somebody books me on the phone where they can hear my voice and we can have a back and forth conversation as opposed to me just sort of like dumping information in their lap. I just feel like my booking rate goes way up because it's more personal.

[C]

Yeah, 100%. I'm on the same wavelength as you. I don't book anybody until I get them on the phone. And once I get them on the phone, they're hooked. They're like, oh my God, Angelica, you're so fun. And I'm like, I'm smiling. They can feel my smile on the other side. I'm like, kiki, in with them and like, asking them the questions. And like, by the time my clients walk through the door, they're like, I feel like we know each other for so long because they follow me on social media. I'm showing up like you're saying, behind the scenes of life. And so like we built a rapport like Unlike really just naturally, how it just kind of unfolds for the client experience, and it makes the transaction easier for the client.

[A]

Oh, I really hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I had so much fun putting it together for you. Before we wrap it up, I just want to go back to our bracketing analogy for a second. If you're leaving your rock quadrant empty because it feels intimidating, you're basically just checking, choosing not to compete in a whole section of your marketing. And honestly, you guys, that just gives you fewer opportunities to win. Rock marketing, especially when it's layered on top of your pebbles and your sand and your water and all your authority, building content has the ability to create serious momentum in your business. And that's not because it's flashy. It's just because it's human. And here's the thing that I hope you take away from this episode. You don't have to win it in one shot or whatever appropriate basketball analogy should go here. You don't have to host the perfect event. You don't have to do the most magical thing that's ever been done in your city. Right? But you do have to do something. One event, one partnership, one room you're willing to walk into. Because marketing really is an ecosystem. And when all of your quadrants are filled, that is when things start to really accelerate. All right, you guys, that's what I've got for you today. Make sure you head over to thiscan't bethard.comdarkroom to grab your action items for this week, and I will see you next week.

[B]

Well, that's it for this week's episode of this Can't Be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode along along with all the relevant links, notes and [e-mail] learn. If you like the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review in itunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.