Podcast Summary: "Borrowed & Returned" on Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States

Podcast: This Guy Sucked (from Multitude)
Episode: A Show We Love: Borrowed & Returned
Date: February 3, 2026
Theme: How Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States changed the way history is taught, discussed, and understood in America, and its ongoing impact on educators, scholarship, and the politics of history.

Episode Overview

This episode of "Borrowed & Returned" explores the profound influence and controversy generated by Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States. Host Adjwa Adouseh and Virginia Marshall, along with historians and educators including Don Dumas, Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz, Nick Witham, and Gayathri Patnaik, examine the origins, methodology, backlash, and legacy of Zinn’s work. The episode also highlights how Zinn inspired a new wave of revisionist and inclusive historical scholarship, particularly for marginalized communities.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Transformative Power of Zinn's Book

Segment: [00:02–04:18]

• Don Dumas shares his personal journey: Discovering the book while working at a law firm, he is "absolutely enthralled" and inspired to become a history teacher.
• A People’s History reveals the interests and struggles of the working class and encourages solidarity.
  • Quote (Don Dumas at 00:47):
    “And in this book, A People's History, what it revealed to me was that there are powerful interest groups that keep people poor or keep the system operating as it does. … It really changed the trajectory of my life because I realized then that I wanted to be a history teacher.”
• Dumas still teaches the book, focusing on marginalized perspectives.
  • Quote (Don Dumas at 02:05):
    "It's a book that tells the story of the United States from the perspective of the people, from the workers, the women, and those with marginalized identities."
• Rising scrutiny and political pushback in history education:
  • Quote (Don Dumas at 02:55):
    “We see a lot of people fighting to control what is taught in our history classes… history has the power to teach people, to teach students how to resist, how to fight for their rights…”

2. Zinn’s Background and Influences

Segment: [05:02–07:17]

• Zinn’s working-class Brooklyn roots and experiences in WWII deeply shaped his outlook.
  • Quote (Nick Witham at 05:43):
    “He then served as an airman in World War II, was really committed to the fight against fascism… but became quite disillusioned with what the war stood for.”
• Early involvement as a professor at Spelman College (a historically Black women’s university), active in the civil rights movement; taught students like Alice Walker and Marian Wright Edelman.
• A People’s History was commissioned in response to a new generation questioning traditional American narratives.

3. The Book’s Radical Approach and Immediate Impact

Segment: [07:30–08:49]

• Historian Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz recalls the shock among colleagues at Zinn’s candid storytelling.
  • Quote (Ortiz at 08:03):
    “They thought it was too radical. I mean, they weren't that conservative, but they thought it was too radical. And they hadn't even read it.”
• Zinn’s opening chapter famously reframes the “discovery” of America from the perspective of the indigenous Arawak people, not Columbus.

4. Zinn’s Historical Method: “History from Below”

Segment: [09:04–10:23]

• Zinn centers the voices of the oppressed and marginalized, with the express intent to challenge dominant, heroic national narratives.
  • Quote (Nick Higgins, reading Zinn at 09:18):
    “The quiet acceptance of conquest and murder in the name of progress is only one aspect of a certain approach to history in which the past is told from the point of view of governments, conquerors, diplomats, leaders… I prefer to tell the story … from the point of view of the Arawaks, of the Constitution, from the standpoint of the slaves…”
• Acknowledgment that Zinn built on work of native historians like Vine Deloria and Jack Forbes, but his mass-market approach brought these ideas to wide audiences.

5. Pop Culture and Political Backlash

Segment: [10:37–12:17]

• The book became a pop culture touchstone (referenced in The Sopranos, The Simpsons, Good Will Hunting).
  • Quote (film reference at 10:58):
    “Read Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States. That book will fucking knock you on your ass.”
• Conservative critics saw the work as a threat to American historical orthodoxy; Thomas Sowell’s 1987 critique and political efforts (e.g., Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels’ attempted ban).
  • Quote (Nick Witham at 11:31):
    “He basically says, if you're taking your kids to a college campus, what you really need to do is try and go to the campus bookstore and see if Howard Zinn's book's in that bookstore…”
  • Quote (Witham at 12:17):
    “…people think that he thought People's History should be a kind of new bible… But that's not the case… if we're going to have a truly kind of educated group of young people, they need to understand that history is about the multiple different perspectives we can take on the past.”

6. Legacy: Inspiring the Revisioning of History

Segment: [13:10–17:31]

• Zinn always encouraged others to write their own histories; Ortiz describes discussing the gaps in Zinn’s account of Native history with him.
  • Quote (Ortiz at 14:17):
    “I said, well, then they killed them all off and then they popped up at Alcatraz—what were they doing in between? And he said, you have to write that book, Crocus, because I don't know.”
• Beacon Press’s Revisioning History series, initiated by Gayathri Patnaik, continues Zinn’s spirit, aiming for accessible, inclusive history for and by marginalized communities.
  • Quote (Patnaik at 14:49):
    “I wanted people from historically marginalized groups… to find themselves in this history, which is to say, a great deal of history depicts marginalized communities as passive.”
• Ortiz's An Indigenous People's History of the United States (2015) found huge success with young people, teachers, and spurred a range of similar works across identities (Queer, Disability, African American/Latinx histories, etc.).
  • Quote (Patnaik at 16:22):
    “It continues to be, every week, one of our best-selling titles at Beacon. We're well over half a million copies at this point.”

7. Modern Relevance and the Fight for Honest History

Segment: [17:31–18:34]

• Many of today's most challenged or banned books carry Zinn’s influence (1619 Project, works by Ibram X Kendi, etc.).
• Dumas remarks on the courage required to teach honest, challenging history in today’s political climate.
  • Quote (Don Dumas at 18:34):
    “…Are we going to capitulate? Are we going to just bow down without any sort of resistance because of our personal… interest? And that's one of the things that makes the people so heroic… All we're asking you to do is share a book. We should be able to do that.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Don Dumas on Zinn’s impact:
  “It really changed the trajectory of my life because I realized then that I wanted to be a history teacher.” (00:47)
• Nick Higgins (voicing Zinn’s principle):
  “To emphasize the heroism of culture, Columbus and its successors as navigators and discoverers, and to de emphasize their genocide is not a technical necessity, but an ideological choice.” (09:18)
• Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz on academia’s reaction:
  “They thought it was too radical. I mean, they weren’t that conservative, but they thought it was too radical. And they hadn’t even read it.” (08:03)
• On critical teaching today (Dumas):
  “We are in a moment now where we have to decide, right, Are we going to capitulate? … All we’re asking you to do is share a book. We should be able to do that.” (18:34)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02: Don Dumas intro & personal story
• 02:55: Dumas on resistance, teaching “dangerous” history
• 05:02–05:43: Zinn’s Brooklyn background and WWII disillusionment
• 08:49: Zinn’s reframing of American origins
• 11:20: Conservative campus backlash
• 13:33: Ortiz on pushing Zinn for deeper Native history, Zinn’s encouragement to others
• 14:49: Beacon Press’s vision for Revisioning History series
• 16:22: Success and impact of Ortiz’s An Indigenous People's History
• 18:34: Dumas’s challenge to teachers in the current climate

Flow & Tone

The episode maintains a balanced, conversational tone—respectful yet critical, featuring personal stories, academic analysis, and a spirit of advocacy for honest, inclusive history. Zinn’s critics and supporters alike are given voice, while the hosts and guests foreground the book’s influence with warmth and urgency.

Conclusion

This episode offers an engaging and in-depth look at how A People’s History of the United States reshaped the field of American history—its methodology, its political battles, and its inspiration for an entire revisionist movement. The podcast celebrates Zinn’s commitment to democratizing history, even as his legacy endures new waves of political resistance and educational controversy. Listeners are left with a call to courage and resistance for teachers and students committed to understanding and telling the full story of America.