Podcast Summary: PATREON PREVIEW Cesare Lombroso with Dr. Matt Lauder

Podcast Information:

• Title: This Guy Sucked
• Host: Dr. Claire Aubin
• Guest: Dr. Matt Lauder
• Release Date: April 24, 2025
• Episode: PATREON PREVIEW Cesare Lombroso with Dr. Matt Lauder

Introduction

In this Patreon preview episode of This Guy Sucked, historian Dr. Claire Aubin welcomes Dr. Matt Lauder, a senior lecturer in Art History and Theory at the University of Essex and the host of the tattoo history podcast Beneath the Skin. The episode sets the stage for an in-depth discussion on Cesare Lombroso, a prominent yet controversial figure in the field of criminology.

Notable Quote:

• Dr. Claire Aubin [00:00]: "...a show that proves no matter how long you've been dead, it's never too late to have haters."

Guest Introduction and Banter

Dr. Aubin introduces Dr. Lauder, highlighting his academic credentials and his contributions to the study of tattoo history. The hosts engage in playful banter about their mutual colleague, Tom Omani, showcasing the camaraderie and light-heartedness that underpins their professional relationship.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Matt Lauder [01:28]: "Oh, thank you. I'm glad I'm not the guy that sucks."
• Dr. Claire Aubin [02:54]: "He did also threaten to edit, to edit out anything mean that we said about him."

Introduction to Cesare Lombroso

The conversation transitions to the episode's main subject, Cesare Lombroso, often hailed as the "father of criminology." Dr. Lauder explains Lombroso's pivotal role in establishing criminology as a modern scientific discipline, blending psychology, psychiatry, and sociology to understand criminal behavior.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Matt Lauder [04:04]: "...he kind of determines the questions I get asked by journalists quite frequently, even more than a century since he died in 1909."
• Dr. Claire Aubin [05:32]: "So much so that his, I think his brain, his head. His brain or his head is literally in the museum of Criminology and Psychiatry in Italy."

Lombroso's Theories and Methods

Dr. Lauder delves into Lombroso's most famous work, The Criminal Man, published in the 1870s. He discusses Lombroso's method of measuring skulls to link physical characteristics with criminal tendencies, a practice rooted in phrenology and physiognomy. This approach aimed to scientifically categorize individuals based on their anatomy, an idea now discredited and viewed as inherently racist and prejudiced.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Claire Aubin [06:34]: "So Lombroso is a phrenologist, which is, or a sort of proponent of phrenology..."
• Dr. Matt Lauder [07:28]: "...Imagine that, to be totally fair on my criminological colleagues, most modern criminology has understood that the Lombrosian skull measuring stuff is not actually the way to figure out what causes crime."

The Enduring Influence and Modern Reinterpretations

Despite the flaws in Lombroso's methods, his ideas have shown remarkable persistence. Dr. Lauder references a 2017 paper by Elisabetta Sigilvani, which argues that contemporary behavioral genetics and neuroscience have, in some ways, resurrected Lombroso's notions by exploring genetic and biological correlates of criminality. This resurgence impacts legal proceedings worldwide, highlighting the troubling legacy of Lombroso's theories.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Matt Lauder [09:12]: "...these ideas are sticky and, you know, they have a huge kind of complicated intermix of prejudice and data and poor methods..."
• Dr. Claire Aubin [11:50]: "Oh, my God."

Lombroso's Personal and Professional Journey

Dr. Aubin provides a biographical overview of Lombroso, tracing his career from medical training in Verona to his tenure as an army surgeon and later as the head of an insane asylum in Pesaro. His rise to prominence in Turin as a professor of forensic medicine marked the peak of his influence, during which he authored Criminal Woman, expanding his theories to include female criminality—a move that intertwined his views on biology, evolution, and gender.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Claire Aubin [14:52]: "...because it’s, it's just something we use to say for someone being essentially racist."
• Dr. Matt Lauder [14:52]: "...his basic theory is that criminals are a sort of lesser subspecies of human being."

Contradictions and Criticisms

The discussion highlights the inherent contradictions in Lombroso's theories, particularly his views on gender. While Lombroso posited that certain physical traits indicated criminality, he simultaneously regarded women as a "lower form of life" yet observed that they committed crimes less frequently than men. This inconsistency underscores the flawed and prejudiced foundations of his work.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Matt Lauder [14:52]: "...he can't quite deal with it."

Conclusion

The episode offers a critical examination of Cesare Lombroso, illustrating how his work laid foundational yet deeply problematic aspects of criminology. Dr. Lauder and Dr. Aubin underscore the importance of scrutinizing historical figures to understand the evolution of academic disciplines and to recognize the lingering shadows of biased theories in contemporary practices.

Final Thoughts: This episode of This Guy Sucked provides a thorough and engaging exploration of Cesare Lombroso's contributions and controversies in criminology. Through expert insights and critical analysis, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of how Lombroso's flawed methodologies and prejudiced assumptions have had enduring impacts on the field.

Support the Podcast: For full access to this conversation and more exclusive content, visit patreon.com/thisguysucked.