Episode Overview

Podcast: This Guy Sucked
Host: Dr. Claire Aubin
Guest: Dr. Shaily Patel, Assistant Professor of Early Christianity, Virginia Tech
Episode Theme: A critical, scholarly, and thoroughly unvarnished examination of Paul the Apostle—his historical context, influence on Christianity, and the divisive impact of his writings and legacy.

This episode, a preview of a Patreon exclusive, brings together historian Claire Aubin and early Christianity scholar Shaily Patel to “drag” Paul of Tarsus. They examine how Paul’s outsized influence shapes Christianity, why so many find him problematic, and unravel the myth of early Christian unity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Challenge of Public Scholarship & Misconceptions about Christian Origins

• Scholars often face backlash even for sharing standard academic views on religious figures, due to public misunderstanding and emotional attachment.

  • [03:17] Dr. Patel on public reaction:

    “I put out this public facing piece and then it just sort of becomes a kind of lightning rod... a lot of the stuff that I say is pretty mainstream, scholarship wise, and then it just takes on a life of its own.”

• Most people’s understanding of Christianity is culturally absorbed, not textually grounded.

  • [05:08] Dr. Aubin:

    “So much of what people think they know about Christianity has just been absorbed culturally and has no real textual basis... there’s a level of, like, assumed knowledge that is not really, like, based in reality or based in Scripture.”

• The New Testament texts were written amidst fierce early debates and are not records of a harmonious, unified faith.

  • [07:34] Dr. Patel:

    “Christians have been fighting about what Christianity is ever since Christianity started.”

The Myth of a "Pure" Christianity and Human Messiness

• The idea of a pure, original Christianity is a modern myth; early Christians were constantly in disagreement and debate.

  • [10:29] Dr. Aubin:

    “Why are you having to write letters to the Galatians, to Romans, to the Corinthians... if there is an agreed upon pure Christianity?”

• Human nature has always included disagreement, pettiness, and contrarianism—even among the so-called saints.

  • [11:34] Dr. Patel:

    “Yeah. Human beings, we are messy bitches, right?... That makes humans really wonderful and beautiful, but it also makes us messy bitches.”

• Reading religious texts historically, rather than devotionally, opens richer understandings.

  • [12:44] Dr. Patel’s appeal:

    “We learn so much if we can just read these texts as ancient texts.”

Religious Studies Is Not Faith Formation

• Religious studies scholars don’t seek to undermine faith, but to investigate religion as a cultural and historical phenomenon.

  • [13:16] Dr. Aubin:

    “Religious studies is not about teaching people to be religious.”

  • [14:01] Dr. Patel:

    “No, I don’t hate Christianity. Nobody gets a PhD in a thing if they hate it.”

Enter Paul of Tarsus—The "Messy Bitch" of Early Christianity

• Paul is an extremely influential architect of Christian orthodoxy—potentially even more than Jesus.

  • [15:58] Dr. Patel:

    “Paul is probably one of the most influential figures, if not the most influential figure we have from the era of Christian origins... There are scholars who would say that Paul invented Christianity... what we know of as Christianity... that can be traced to Paul.”

• The worship of Jesus (rather than just his teachings or prophecies) and justification by faith are Pauline contributions.

  • [17:08] Dr. Patel:

    “Justification by faith... if you believe that Christ died for your sins, that is massive.”

• Paul’s letters, among the earliest Christian texts, are foundational but also include problematic legacies—such as anti-Semitic tropes.

  • [17:54] Dr. Patel:

    “So many of what we call anti-Semitism, so many of those tropes, we see them in Paul as early as Paul... some of the anti-Semitic tropes get hardwired into Christian orthodoxy as well.”

• The story that “the Jews killed Jesus” is a misreading; Paul’s own texts and their reception contributed to entrenched, damaging myths.

  • [18:05] Dr. Patel:

    “Like this idea that Jews killed Jesus. No, the Roman Empire executed Jesus. Like this is what they do. Rome doesn’t need a lot of excuses to crucify people.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Patel, on academic backlash [03:17]:

  “A lot of the stuff that I say is pretty mainstream, scholarship wise, and then it just takes on a life of its own.”

• Dr. Aubin, on text vs. tradition [05:08]:

  “So much of what people think they know about Christianity has just been absorbed culturally and has no real textual basis.”

• Dr. Patel, on the diversity of belief [06:05]:

  “Meaning is not inherent. We interpret texts and apply them, and that means that there’s, like, different forms of Christianity.”

• Dr. Aubin, challenging the "real Christian" argument [09:01]:

  “When you say someone is not a real Christian if they do something... what you’re doing is reinscribing the idea that there is a singular Christianity and there’s not and there never has been.”

• Dr. Patel, reality check on early Christian unity [10:29]:

  “If there’s some sort of self evident, like, pure form of Christianity, you would think everybody would have signed on... but we do [have disagreements].”

• Dr. Patel, perfect summary of humanity in religion [11:34]:

  “Yeah. Human beings, we are messy bitches, right?... we exceed labels and rules and all of those things that are placed upon us.”

• Dr. Patel, the historian’s approach [12:44]:

  “We learn so much if we can just read these texts as ancient texts.”

• Dr. Aubin, on why scholars don’t hate the subject [14:01]:

  “No, I don’t hate Christianity. Nobody gets a PhD in a thing if they hate it.”

• Dr. Patel, introducing the subject of the day [15:00]:

  “Okay, so we’re talking about Paul of Tarsus... and I have so much beef with Paul. I have had so much beef with Paul throughout my entire career.”

• Dr. Patel, on Paul’s centrality [15:58]:

  “Paul is probably one of the most influential figures, if not the most influential figure we have from the era of Christian origins.”

• Dr. Patel, on problematic legacies [17:54]:

  "So many of what we call anti-Semitism... we see them in Paul as early as Paul. And Paul is writing in the 50s... some of the anti-Semitic tropes get hardwired into Christian orthodoxy as well."

Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:31 – Shaily Patel says she’d study Dracula if not Christian heresy (“Dracula studies. There is a journal of Dracula studies.”)
• 03:17 – Public and scholarly reception of “Jesus as magician” scholarship
• 05:08 – Discussion about how most people's knowledge about Christianity is culturally absorbed, not textual
• 07:34 – Claire and Shaily discuss historical Christian disputes and contemporary schisms
• 10:29 – On the myth of a “pure” Christianity and why Paul’s letters are proof of disagreement
• 11:34 – Discussion on human messiness in religious and historical contexts
• 12:44 – The importance of reading the New Testament as ancient texts
• 14:01 – Clarifying misconceptions about religious studies and scholarship
• 15:00 – Dr. Patel introduces Paul as the “messy bitch” historical figure of the episode
• 15:58–17:54 – Breakdown of Paul’s influence: inventing Christianity, “justification by faith”, and his legacy of problematic doctrine

Episode Tone & Style

Lively, incisive, and irreverent, with a strong “pull no punches” approach to historical analysis. Both host and guest bring humor and biting honesty, stripping down hagiographic myths to focus on the very human, often problematic realities of Paul of Tarsus and his impact on Christianity.

This is a preview of a Patreon exclusive episode. To hear more, visit patreon.com/thisguysucked.