Podcast Summary: This Guy Sucked – Petrarch with David M. Perry

Podcast: This Guy Sucked
Host: Claire Aubin
Guest: David M. Perry (journalist & medieval historian)
Episode: Petrarch with David M. Perry
Released: November 27, 2025

Main Theme/Purpose

This episode takes a critical, irreverent look at Francesco Petrarch, often hailed as the “father of humanism” and a foundational figure of the Italian Renaissance. Host Claire Aubin and medieval historian David M. Perry explore why, despite Petrarch’s hallowed reputation, he “sucked” – both personally and for his long-lasting, problematic influence on historical narratives. The episode unpacks Petrarch’s construction of the “Dark Ages,” his self-serving mythmaking, and his legacy in shaping Western historical exceptionalism, while also injecting personal grievances, funny anecdotes, and commentary on how historians interact with the past.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historians in the Archives (00:47–06:47)

• David Perry’s “Weirdest Archive Moment”:
  • Tells stories of translating a Latin tale about relic thieves and being left alone with a priceless marble relief hidden between Venice’s San Marco church and the Palazzo Ducale.
    • “It was the most surreal moment... just totally alone with this piece of medieval art.” – David M. Perry (02:47)
  • Both Perry and Aubin reflect on the awe and ‘fakeness’ of handling artifacts connected to long-dead historical figures.
• Importance of Physical Place:
  • Perry: “You have to go live in the place that you’re studying... walk around those streets... it’s the same layout as it was by about 1350.” (07:51)
• Emotional Connection:
  • Being a historian often means standing in spaces once occupied by people you study – sometimes eerie when those people “sucked.”

2. Who Was Petrarch? (09:29–14:18)

• Short Biography:
  • Born 1304 in Arezzo, Tuscany to a notary family (“kind of like lawyers... professional legal people,” 14:34).
  • Educated in law in France and Bologna, then turned away from law after his father’s death.
  • Inspired by the elusive Laura – but Perry calls Petrarch “a goddamn liar,” doubting the veracity of his poetic origin story (17:53).
    • “When he writes down this biographical moment... I start with the belief that that is not what happened.” (18:15)
• Petrarch’s Reputation:
  • Famous poet who helped define the sonnet.
  • Considered founding figure of “humanism,” but his version synthesized Christian and classical ideals (not secular humanism).
  • Obsessed with classical antiquity.

3. Petrarch’s Self-Mythologizing & Arrogance (21:44–23:43)

• Self-Coronation as “Poet Laureate”
  • Organizes his own parade and crowning in Rome, supposedly inventing (or reviving) the poet laureate tradition for himself.
    • “He invents it kind of from whole cloth... then gets himself sort of elevated... Well, me, of course, says Petrarch.” – Perry (22:18)
• Living Through Crisis
  • Survived the Black Death; narrative of being a “great man” rising from catastrophe.

4. The Renaissance Was Bad, Actually (23:43–26:34)

• Reference to Ada Palmer’s Inventing the Renaissance: “Not only did this guy suck, but it sucked. It was a terrible time to be alive... The people in this era knew it was bad and were trying to have it be less bad.” – Perry (24:00)

5. The Beef: Why Petrarch Sucked

a) His Annoying, Intentionally Obscure Latin (26:53–32:18)

• Perry’s Personal Grudge:
  • Petrarch’s Latin prose is “the most annoying Latin to read and translate... and he did it on purpose.”
    • “If he had not ever invented the Dark Ages, I would still be mad at him.” (33:00)

b) Inventing the “Dark Ages” (33:05–41:29)

• Origin of the Term:
  • In a 14th-century letter (“Epistola Posteritati,” 1371/72), Petrarch writes: “Among the many subjects that have occupied my thoughts, I have long wondered why, after the bright light of the ancients, we have been enveloped or shrouded in such darkness of ignorance.” (36:41)
  • Perry, referencing Theodore Mommsen’s article, calls this the “first moment” someone describes the previous 1000 years as “darkness.”
    • “We’re stuck with this Dark Ages, and we’re absolutely still stuck with it.” – Perry (35:53)
    • “If you already know... that it was not the Dark Ages, you are in a tiny minority.” (36:16)
• Consequences:
  • Petrarch’s periodization became a cornerstone of Western “civilization” mythmaking and racist exceptionalism.
    • “This specific thing that he is at least the genesis of... is really underpinning a lot of bad shit right now.” – Perry (40:00)
    • Leads to dangerous narratives about white European superiority and Western exceptionalism, which underpin everything from classical architectures in the White House to Silicon Valley bros.
    • “That narrative... has a body count over centuries, including today...” (40:00)

c) Excluding Everything Outside Classical Rome (41:29–45:56)

• Narrow Lens:
  • Petrarch erases or sidelines Byzantine, Islamic, Jewish, African, and other intellectual traditions.
    • “Byzantine intellectual traditions: gone. Islamic intellectual traditions: gone. Jewish intellectual traditions: gone.” (44:56)
  • Even his epic poem ‘Africa’ is really about Roman North Africa, not the continent’s broader history.
• Legacy of Eurocentric Exceptionalism:
  • “He has to say... nothing exists geographically outside of me... also in terms of intellectual traditions these things don’t exist.” – Aubin (44:24)

d) Mythmaking and Lying (52:33–60:21)

• The Mountain Climbing Story:
  • Petrarch claimed he was the “first to climb a mountain just to see the view,” and staged a conversion experience on Mont Ventoux—likely apocryphal, self-promoting mythmaking.
    • “This is bullshit... This is a narrative. He might not even have climbed the damn mountain at all.” – Perry (55:42)
    • “He’s self-crafting a narrative... today he’d be on TikTok filming it.” (59:10)
• Comparisons to Modern Influencers:
  • “I’m 100% here for comparing Petrarch to influencers faking exertion.” – Perry (60:03)

e) General Academic Elitism & Legacy (60:45–62:54)

• Petrarch’s Influence on Academic Structures:
  • Helped codify Latin and Greek as “classics,” sidelining other important traditions (Persian, Arabic, etc), and contributing to a narrow definition of the humanities and academic hierarchy.
    • “The way that classics... is Latin and Greek as if those were the only two literate languages... I do think it traces to this kind of moment in ways that are problematic...” (61:41)
• Continued Effects:
  • “In the 19th century, Italian was invented as a language out of Tuscan. Why? Because of Dante and Petrarch.” (63:14)
  • Many regional Italians are still mad about the imposition of Tuscan as standard Italian.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Petrarch is a goddamn liar.” – David M. Perry (17:53)
• “If he had just written poetry about Laura, allegorical or not, we’d be fine... he’d be great.” – Perry (13:26)
• “I assure you, he sucked.” – Perry on Petrarch (27:04)
• “If you already know that it was not the Dark Ages, you are in a tiny minority.” – Perry (36:16)
• “This specific thing... is really underpinning a lot of bad shit right now.” – Perry (40:00)
• “I’m 100% here for comparing Petrarch to influencers faking exertion.” – Perry (60:03)
• “Everybody’s been a messy bitch.” – Aubin (58:48)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:47–06:47: Historians’ Archive Stories & Emotional Connection to Artifacts
• 09:29–14:18: Petrarch’s Life, Poetry, and Reputation
• 17:53–23:43: Doubting Petrarch’s Narratives, Self-Mythologizing, Poet Laureate Story
• 23:43–26:34: “The Renaissance Was Bad, Actually”
• 26:53–32:18: Perry’s Personal Beef: Petrarch’s Annoying Latin
• 33:05–41:29: Petrarch Invents the “Dark Ages” (with quote, 36:41)
• 41:29–45:56: Exclusion of Other Traditions, Africa, Eurocentric History
• 52:33–60:21: Mountain Climbing Myth, Petrarch the Influencer
• 60:45–62:54: Legacy in Academic Hierarchy & The Humanities
• 63:14–64:37: Linguistic Legacy & Italian Language Standardization

Tone & Style

• Highly informal, irreverent, sometimes profane (“He sucked. I assure you, he sucked.”)
• Mix of scholarly critique and personal beef (“Still pretty mad about it... it’s a personal grudge.”)
• Humor, light sarcasm, internet meme references (comparing Petrarch to a TikTok influencer)
• Earnest delight in making public historical criticism accessible and enjoyable

Conclusion

The episode dismantles Petrarch’s lauded reputation, showing how his personal mythmaking, self-importance, and “invention” of the Dark Ages created historical paradigms that still harm popular understanding today. Perry’s personal grudge against Petrarch’s terrible Latin is both funny and relatable, but the critique extends to real, ongoing issues about Eurocentrism, elitism, and narrative power in history. Aubin and Perry remind listeners: “People in the past were people and complicated... but that doesn't mean we have to like them.”

For more in-depth history “haters,” subscribe to This Guy Sucked and check out David M. Perry’s works, especially 'The Bright Ages'.