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Jesse Tyler Ferguson
Hey, it's Jesse Tyler Ferguson, host of Dinners on Me. And I've got something very cool coming your way. I cannot wait for this. I sat down with none other than Ty Burrell, also known as my brother in law on Modern Family for 11 seasons and let me tell you, when we get together, it's impossible to stop laughing. You're gonna love this episode. And of course you're gonna love Ty because honestly, he's the best. And who doesn't love him? And thanks to Airbnb, we got to record in the coziest little apres ski cabin in Utah, complete with take from one of Ty's own restaurants, beer bar. So picture this. Two old friends, a crackling fire, some seriously good food, and a whole lot of tea spilling. Yes, I mean, meaning that we also we gossiped, but also we spilled our tea. Anyway, I can't wait for you to listen.
Luke Pepperer
Hi everyone.
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Just a reminder that after this episode, you can hear from me and Luke as we dive even deeper into the story over on this is history plus. To subscribe, just go to thisishistorypod.com or go to Apple Podcasts and click try free. Enjoy the episode.
Luke Pepperer
It's warm and a little dusty, but now and then comes a gentle breeze. The sun is shining brightly and the pyramids of Giza slice golden triangles in the clear blue sky. Smooth silver limestone covers much of their bases, producing a bright, dappled effect. There's the flap of pigeons wings as they settle on the stone blocks. Their soft cooing floats through the air. The Mali pilgrims, who are camped a few miles from the pyramids couldn't have asked for a better day. They're content, relieved and relaxed. Some of them catch up on some much needed sleep, while others chat and laugh from the shade of their tents. There's plenty of food and water and they snack, gulp or drench themselves to keep cool. The mood is good. They all know the worst of their journeys. Behind them, they need only pass through Cairo. Just a few hours journey, then it's an easy few days south and they'll be in Medina before they know it. What could possibly ruin things now? The earth rumbles, the pigeons scatter. Some of the pilgrims wake. They peer out their tents and along with the others, watch in surprise and horror as what appears to be a whirlwind charges towards them. As it nears, they hear the clatter of horses hooves and see in the clouds of dust, mounted men wearing turbans and robes and holding spears. The pilgrims murmur anxiously. Some rush to hide others to raise the alarm. Many grab their weapons. Officials burst into Musa's tent and bring him up to speed. The Mali emperor is a little taken aback. They're far enough from the desert not to encounter bandits. Who could these assailants be? Musa orders for the warriors in his camp to be gathered ready for battle. He calls for his bow and quiver and exits hastily with Fasekke, his chief advisor and best friend. They mount their horses and ride to the edge of the camp where the Mali soldiers are assembling. The enemy is nearly upon them, beating a drum. Faseke sings a rousing song praising the bravery of the Mali soldiers and the valor of their ancestors. He tells them they will not fall and that once they have won the battle, they will have made their forebears proud. The generals check their armour. The archers take their arrows. The infantry secure their shields. Musa gives the order to move out and rides ahead of his army into the enemy's path. The two forces move closer and closer. The closer they get, the faster they go. Musa's peaceful quest for redemption could be about to turn into the worst bloodbath his people have ever seen.
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Foreign.
Luke Pepperer
I'm Luke Pepperer and this is history. Presents Empire of Gold Episode 3 Trouble in Cairo.
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You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries, you wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.
Luke Pepperer
It's 1324 and we're in the city of Giza in Egypt. Musa and his merry band of Mali pilgrims have made it here after a grueling, nearly year long journey across the Sahara. They faced scorching heat, freezing nights, flea bites, discomfort, and the psychological beatdown of a changeless landscape. And beyond the simple hardships of their journey, Musa's people have been busy. Musa had ordered that wherever the pilgrims stopped on a Friday, which is the holiest day of the week for Muslims, a mosque should be built out of wood and camels. The Malians have left a trail of buildings marking their journey behind them. Throughout the year, it's unclear how many Malians have died or been left behind like those unlucky enough to catch the foot plague. Although some sources say that Musa left Mali with 60,000 men, others claim that he left with around 15,000 and that by the time they arrive in Egypt, there are only around 12,000. This could easily be chroniclers enjoying their exaggerations and not knowing their numbers. But it could mean Musa's forces suffer severe losses on the way. Whatever the case, Musa and his entourage are well overdue some RR before the final leg of their journey to Medina. That's when they come face to face with one of the worst dangers imaginable. A horde of Egyptian Mamluk soldiers. The Mamluks are tough and terrifying. You may recognize the name from this podcast. They're the group of soldier slaves that even Plantagenet bad boy Edward II couldn't face in battle. They inspired the Unsullied in Game of Thrones in the late 12th century. They'd begun as mainly Turkic slaves groomed for warfare, serving in the army of the Egyptian regime, the Ayyubid sultanate. In the mid 13th century, they overthrew their masters and defeated invading Mongol forces to cement their grip on Egypt and its conquered territories. In the process, they established a powerful Muslim empire that was the envy and scourge of the region. The Mamluks non noble military backgrounds meant they cared little for hereditary rule. Just because someone's father had been king didn't mean they automatically had to be too. Above all else, the Mamluks valued in their ruler the abilities to fight well, strategize and command effectively. Basically, they supported the best warrior amongst them as their next leader. And Nepo babies didn't get far. But this obsession with strength and conflict was a double edged sword. It meant that almost no Mamluk succession was bloodless. When a ruler died, or as was more often the case, was assassinated or killed in battle, the different factions of the Mamluk leadership plotted and Fought for supremacy. Let me put it this the Mamluk Sultanate existed until the early 16th century. In that entire time, some 300 years, 25 sons of previous sultans inherited the throne. Out of those 25, only one managed to rule longer than three years without being either permanently exiled or killed. Who is this extraordinary figure? His name is Al Nazir Muhammad and he's the Sultan of Egypt. When Musa arrives, Al Nazir is undoubtedly the hardest of Mamluk rulers. Not saying something, he is no stranger to the chaos and brutalities of the Mamluk court. In the early 1320s, the time of our story. He is about 40 years old and has been ruling for around 15 years. But this is actually the third time he's come to power. The first time was in 1293, after his brother was assassinated and by no less than his deceased father's allies. The second was in 1299, following a period of exile. And this third time was after he'd raised an army and defeated the Sultan who'd seized the throne. We'll go deeper into Al Nazir's rollercoaster of a reign in this week's subscriber episode where Dan and I will see if he wins the crown for most relentless ruler of the Middle Ages. The final time Al Nazir regained power, he was a jaded adult and no one was safe. His cleanup operation was ruthless. His enemies, mainly his father's allies and anyone who had even the remotest connection to them, was arrested and executed. Those promoted in their place were made to swear the utmost loyalty should they suffer the same fate. Anyone who threatens Al Nazir's rule in any way has to fear for their life. Once a chronicle tells us Al Nasir was ill and thought he was dying. So he named his friend and favourite advisor as his successor, who probably couldn't believe his luck. Unfortunately for him, Al Nazir got better and just to be safe, quickly had this poor advisor killed. Being named successor had given the advisor much more respect and admiration and he'd become a rival to the Sultan. Basically, this is all a way of telling you that the current big dog of Cairo is someone you really, really don't want to be on the wrong side of. And it's Al Nasir's army that's currently barrelling towards Musa. The Mamluks are more battle hardened than the Malians. They haven't had a year of hard travelling and they are the ones with a plan. Musa must have his heart in his throat as the army bears down on them. If he and his People are defeated, they can expect no mercy. They'll be disemboweled, beheaded or sold into slavery. Suddenly, though, the Mamluk advance draws to a halt. In turn, the Malians also slow down. A Mamluk messenger runs to the Malian side. Little else can be heard but the horses breaths and the jangle of the bits in their mouths. Fasekke near. Musa directs the envoy to come to him. The messenger delivers his master's proclamation. The Mamluk army's commander asks who these strangers are, why they're here and why there's so many of them. They should know that if they're an invading army, they will meet the full force of the Mamluk war machine, which has quelled even the marauding Mongols. Faseki states passionately that they are not invaders, but pilgrims who wish to get to Medina and Mecca via Cairo. The messenger sprints off eagerly, awaiting his news. His commander eyes him closely. The size of the Malians camp and army had astonished him. In all my life, I have never seen anything like this, he'd muttered. Why? This caravan competes in glittering glory with the African sun itself. It had given him pause and made him evaluate his usual strategy, which was to fight first, ask questions later. Jaw clenched and brow in a stealing frown, he listens. Can it be true they are pilgrims? Relief washes over him. He sends the messenger back, inviting Musa to stay in Cairo. Musa accepts and the pilgrims pack up camp and follow the Mamluks to their capital. Crisis averted for now, but the relief and celebrations of both sides is premature. The real conflict which threatens not only the pilgrims lives, but good relations between Mali and Egypt for the foreseeable future is yet to come.
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Luke Pepperer
Cairo is a beautiful city on par with Niani, the Malians capital. It is large, sprawling and awe inspiring. The domes, balconies and minarets of castles, Muslim schools and mosques dominate the skyline. Many areas are in shadow, but the air is thickly warm, slightly dusty and everything seems bathed in a lightly orange hue. The Cairenes wearing silk or cotton Robes, shawls and turbans wander through the paved streets or rest in the courtyards. Children play and dogs pant heavily in any shade they can find. Flowing through the stone archways of narrow alleys are the cries of traders from above. Floating down from the heavens, you can make out the frequent calls to prayer. The smells are intoxicating. There's the honey and tobacco like smell of saffron, the earth and orange like aroma of turmeric and a nose taste tingling hint of pepper. Various goods are on display in the bazaars, from silks every color of the rainbow to exquisitely painted glass, wood sculptures and metal tools. As the 60,000 Malians and their 100 camels loaded with gold trail into the city, they command everyone's attention. There are whispers and grunts of surprise and wonder. Patrolling guards almost drop their weapons. The children smile, shout and point. The dogs bark and turn in circles. The merchants jump back, stopping their sentences mid bargain. Even amongst the throng, it is Musa that draws the most attention. The emperor appeared amidst his companions, magnificently dressed and mounted and surrounded by more than 10,000 of his subjects, says one chronicler. He brought gifts and presents that amazed the eye with their beauty and splendor. The Mamluk commander tells Musa that he must take him to see the sultan, the ruthlessly competent Al Nazir. Muhammad Musa, trotting along and smiling and waving to the gathering crowd, doesn't respond. His expression barely changes. But he glances at Faseke and the commander detects uneasiness. The Mamluk repeats his request, adding that it's a protocol and that if he fails in it, he'll be dead. Musa furrows his brow. He opens his mouth, then closes it. He takes a breath. And then he says, I came for my pilgrimage to Mecca and nothing else. I do not wish to mix anything else with it. Musa is lying through his teeth. The actual reason he doesn't want to see the Sultan is much more pragmatic and arguably even petty. The commander becomes desperate, fidgeting slightly on his steed, his expression serious and beads of sweat gathering on his brow, and urges Musa again to come with him to the palace. Again Musa refuses. The commander tries once more. Musa says no. But this commander, faced with the prospect of displeasing Al Nasir, has and losing his head, won't let it go. He asks Musa again and again, please come meet Al Nazir. He looks to and tries to reason with for Seke and Musa's other officials. When they simply shrug or glance at Musa, the commander attempts another prod at the emperor. Musa may be feeling that the situation is becoming too awkward, or he doesn't want to get himself and his people or the commander into trouble with Al Nasir. Maybe he's just curious about the Mamluk sultan, who is evidently a great leader. Whatever the reason, Musa eventually relents and agrees reluctantly to an audience with the sultan. The commander can hardly hide his happiness. He directs Musa to the Saladin citadel, built by its namesake in the late 12th century. As you may recall, Saladin is the great rival of Richard the Lionheart during the Crusades.
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Luke Pepperer
Most of the Malians rest in the courtyards or browse exotic wares while Musa is led up a stone pathway to the palace fortress. On the hill, the citadel is imposing, a mass of giant towers, high walls and parapets, all made of mud brown stone. Archers can be seen strolling back and forth. There's no sound except the click of horseshoes on the ground and a word or two from either the commander or one of Musa's. Wondrous king though he is, Musa is impressed as he's guided through the outer defences into Al Nazir's audience chamber. From within comes the rich twang of ooze West Asian lutes. The chamber is vast. Marble columns support the vaulted ceiling. On the walls are paintings of Al Nazir and his officials. Before Musa, the Sultan sits cross legged on an exquisitely carved wooden throne draped in red silk. He wears a white turban and a black, red and yellow silk robe with swirling designs. His slippers are golden, about 40 years old. His clean shaven face is stern. Surrounding him are his ministers, guards and minstrels. Finally face to face with the accomplished Mamluk sultan. Musa stands stock still and doesn't say a word. Kiss the ground, the commander tells Musa, as per Mamluk court protocol, this is what everyone who visits the Sultan has to do. Musa had been afraid of something like this. He's making his pilgrimage to show off his and Mali's wealth, might and glory. How would it look if he was to bow before a ruler who is at the very most his equal? Now Musa makes the most dangerous choice of his life. Right in front of Al Nazir, who'd beheaded tens of people and killed in battle hundreds more in Al Nazir's own palace, in his own capital, in his own country. Musa refuses to bow. The commander is appalled. He peeks at the Sultan. Al Nazir is grim. The commander tries again and other Mamluks join the cry. Kiss the ground. Kiss the ground, they urge. But Musa declines, saying, how may this be. The guards reach for their hilts. The air feels stale. The Malians are worried. Ears hot and mouths dry, they look appealingly at their emperor. A couple even quietly advise him to submit. Among them is the advisor Fasekke. He has no desire to die in the crossfire between between the pride of two rulers. He looks at his old friend and emperor, who has the same stubborn glint in his eye that led his father to his death. Then he has an idea. An idea that can save their lives and avoid total war between Mali and Egypt. An idea I'll tell you next time on this is History presents Empire of Gold.
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Podcast Summary: This is History: A Dynasty to Die For
Episode: Empire of Gold | 3. Trouble in Cairo
Release Date: March 18, 2025
In "Empire of Gold | 3. Trouble in Cairo," host Luke Pepperer delves into the dramatic and perilous journey of Mansa Musa, the legendary emperor of Mali, as he leads a massive pilgrimage across Africa to Mecca. This episode intricately weaves historical narrative with vivid storytelling, highlighting the immense wealth and leadership of Musa, as well as the formidable challenges he faces, particularly in Cairo.
The episode opens with a serene depiction of the Mali pilgrims camped near the pyramids of Giza, basking in a rare moment of tranquility after their arduous year-long journey across the Sahara. Luke Pepperer sets the scene with rich detail:
"The pyramids of Giza slice golden triangles in the clear blue sky. The Mali pilgrims, who are camped a few miles from the pyramids couldn't have asked for a better day."
[01:07]
Musa's leadership is evident as he oversees the construction of mosques along their route every Friday, leaving a lasting architectural legacy despite the journey's hardships. The narrative underscores the sheer scale of Musa's entourage:
"Some sources say that Musa left Mali with 60,000 men, others claim that he left with around 15,000 and that by the time they arrive in Egypt, there are only around 12,000."
[05:34]
This discrepancy in numbers highlights the potential losses Musa's army faced, though the exact toll remains unclear. The pilgrims are nearing the final leg of their journey when disaster strikes.
As the pilgrims prepare to traverse Cairo, their peaceful respite is shattered by the sudden approach of a formidable Mamluk army. The Mamluks, renowned for their military prowess and ruthless leadership, pose a significant threat to Musa and his people.
Pepperer provides a detailed background on the Mamluks:
"They are the group of soldier slaves that even Plantagenet bad boy Edward II couldn't face in battle... They established a powerful Muslim empire that was the envy and scourge of the region."
[05:34]
At the heart of the Mamluk hierarchy is Sultan Al Nazir Muhammad, a relentless leader whose reign is marked by repeated power struggles and brutal enforcement of authority. The episode builds tension as Musa musters his warriors in anticipation of a devastating conflict:
"The Mamluks are more battle-hardened than the Malians... Musa must have his heart in his throat as the army bears down on them."
[05:34]
However, before bloodshed ensues, a critical moment of negotiation arises. A Mamluk messenger arrives with a proclamation, challenging the Malians' presence and demanding answers. Musa's chief advisor, Faseke, passionately defends their pilgrimage:
"They are not invaders, but pilgrims who wish to get to Medina and Mecca via Cairo."
[15:00]
The sheer display of Mamluk power initially threatens to escalate into violence, but strategic dialogue leads to a temporary truce, allowing Musa and his pilgrims to follow the Mamluks into Cairo. This uneasy peace, however, foreshadows deeper conflicts to come.
Upon entering Cairo, Musa and his entourage are met with a city that rivals their own majestic Niani. The description captures the vibrant and bustling atmosphere:
"The domes, balconies and minarets of castles, Muslim schools and mosques dominate the skyline... The smells are intoxicating... from silks to exquisitely painted glass."
[13:53]
Musa's presence commands attention, showcasing Mali's wealth and grandeur. The interaction with Sultan Al Nazir is a pivotal moment, filled with cultural and political tension. Musa is formally introduced to the Sultan in the opulent Saladin Citadel:
"From within comes the rich twang of West Asian lutes... Al Nazir sits cross-legged on an exquisitely carved wooden throne... His clean-shaven face is stern."
[17:55]
In a display of defiance and assertion of his own authority, Musa refuses to bow to Al Nazir, a gesture that defies Mamluk court protocol and threatens to ignite a full-scale conflict:
"Musa refuses to bow... How would it look if he was to bow before a ruler who is at the very most his equal?"
[17:55]
This critical stand sets the stage for a high-stakes negotiation, where the future of Mali-Egypt relations hangs in the balance.
As tensions escalate within the audience chamber, Musa's refusal to submit risks plunging both Mali and Egypt into war. The episode ends on a suspenseful note, promising further developments and resolutions in the next installment:
"Musa refuses to bow... The air feels stale... An idea that can save their lives and avoid total war between Mali and Egypt for the foreseeable future is yet to come."
[17:55]
Listeners are left eagerly anticipating the next episode, where Faseke's ingenious solution may avert disaster and redefine the legacy of Mansa Musa.
"Empire of Gold | 3. Trouble in Cairo" masterfully blends historical facts with dramatic storytelling to illuminate the complexities of Mansa Musa's pilgrimage and his encounter with the Mamluk Sultanate. Through rich descriptions, strategic character introductions, and suspenseful plot developments, Luke Pepperer offers an engaging and informative narrative that brings medieval African history to life.
For those intrigued by the unfolding drama and eager to learn more about the consequences of Musa's legacy, the episode sets the stage for an exciting continuation in future installments.
Notable Quotes:
Faseke on Malians' Intentions:
"They are not invaders, but pilgrims who wish to get to Medina and Mecca via Cairo."
[15:00]
Chronicle on Musa's Display of Wealth:
"The emperor appeared amidst his companions, magnificently dressed... he brought gifts and presents that amazed the eye with their beauty and splendor."
[17:55]
Musa's Defiance:
"I came for my pilgrimage to Mecca and nothing else. I do not wish to mix anything else with it."
[17:55]
Next Episode Teaser:
Faseke devises a crucial plan to prevent war and secure the safety of the Malians, setting the stage for transformative outcomes in Mali-Egypt relations. Tune in to the next episode of "This is History" to uncover this pivotal resolution.