Podcast Summary
This is History: History’s Greatest Fails
Episode: How, exactly, does a woman ‘slip’ out of history?
Date: April 21, 2026
Hosts: Dan Jones & Elizabeth Day
Episode Overview
In this episode, Dan Jones and Elizabeth Day confront the enduring question of how women are written out, overlooked, or deliberately erased from history. Focusing on institutional, cultural, and narrative failures, they explore why female figures often vanish from the historical record, who is responsible, and what contemporary historians can—and can’t—do to recover these lost stories. Through lively, humorous debate, they delve into the fascinating stories of three overlooked women: Hatshepsut, Joanna Ferrer, and Ada Lovelace. Alongside, they reflect on the mechanisms of remembrance, the biases embedded in records, and the pitfalls of reading modern values into the past.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Why Are Women Forgotten in History? (01:18–07:13)
- Dan and Elizabeth debate whether the scarcity of women in history stems from the biases of male historians or from patriarchal societies themselves.
- Dan’s view: Two main schools—either historians are sexist, or most societies have excluded women from spheres where "history" is made (military, political). Suggests both factors contribute.
- Elizabeth’s rebuttal: Challenges the undervaluing of the domestic sphere, arguing that shaping households and raising future generations is profoundly influential.
- Quote: "The way that you have framed those arguments is gendered... the female influence in what you term the domestic sphere is incredibly important because that is often shaping future humans." (03:42, Elizabeth)
- Consensus: The failure is both systemic and archival—a product of past societies and the structures of historical remembrance.
2. The Case of Hatshepsut – The Forgotten Pharaoh (07:15–16:59)
- Elizabeth introduces Hatshepsut: Eighteenth Dynasty Egyptian pharaoh who presented herself as male for legitimacy, presided over a prosperous reign, and was later erased by her stepson.
- Her reign was rediscovered only after hieroglyphs were decoded in the 19th century.
- Quote: "She became the repository of kingship... by claiming that her mother had intimate relations with the sun God, Amon Ra... a direct claim not only to legitimacy, but to divinity." (08:45, Elizabeth)
- Discussion on gendered power: Even trailblazing women had to perform masculinity or cloak their authority in male imagery.
- Dan draws parallels with medieval chroniclers and the idiom of women "putting on male garb" when usurping power (12:00–13:46).
- The true failure: Not Hatshepsut’s leadership, but the system’s unwillingness to remember or acknowledge her achievements.
- Quote: "In a way, the failure is the failure of the system to acknowledge that she was a great ruler." (14:43, Elizabeth)
- Memorable tangent: Hatshepsut’s architect, speculation about their relationship, and the digression into ancient Egyptian hummus—showcasing the hosts' playful dynamic (16:12–16:44).
3. Women and the Peasants’ Revolt: Joanna Ferrer’s Fleeting Moment (17:06–28:22)
- Historical context: 1381, major English revolt, led by Wat Tyler and John Ball, with chroniclers and records overwhelmingly male-dominated.
- Joanna Ferrer, a rare female name in the chronicles, played a pivotal role by identifying fleeing royal officials, leading to their execution.
- Quote: "A woman called Joanna Ferrer who says, look, that's the royal officials trying to get away and they're captured and then they are Gordon beheaded." (20:49, Dan)
- Importance: Her intervention is remembered in a gendered, sometimes negative way—recorded almost as a cautionary tale of chaos.
- Systemic erasure: The very destruction of records by rebels, including women, ironically contributes to their own disappearance from history.
- Quote: "[Joanna was] destroying something that then became the tool of her own disappearance." (24:50, Elizabeth)
- Caution about hindsight: Both agree on the danger of retroactively assigning modern feminism to medieval actors.
- Quote: "We can't wish progressive thinking on the past." (25:43, Dan)
- Dan points out that chroniclers’ hostility toward women involved in such events is supercharged—her actions portrayed as aberrant and threatening to both social and gender order.
- Quote: "To have a woman... being the catalyzing force for what amounts to murder in a kangaroo court, is just like one more example of how depraved these... this whole rebellion is..." (27:37, Dan)
4. Ada Lovelace: A Pioneer Rediscovered (30:17–34:13)
- Ada Lovelace, mathematician, daughter of Lord Byron, collaborator with Charles Babbage; her visionary work on algorithms and early computers was ignored in her lifetime and for a century after.
- Her contributions only gained recognition in the 20th century, championed by figures like Alan Turing.
- Gendered double standards: Her late-life struggles with addiction and gambling were harshly judged, “pathetic old drunk,” while her father’s excesses were celebrated.
- Quote: "Her work was way ahead of its time and the machines had not yet been invented that could put into practice her theoretical, dazzling genius." (32:21, Elizabeth)
- Dan notes her rise as an icon is timely, intersecting modern interest in women in STEM and challenging of gender binaries.
5. Reflections on Historical Judgement and Intersectionality (34:21–38:45)
- Elizabeth emphasizes: Recognizing historic patriarchy does not mean excusing it today; awareness of gender intersects with race, class, ethnicity, and other biases.
- Quote: "...so important...to remember those women who were not only disadvantaged in the historical record by their gender, but also by lots of other intersections..." (34:51, Elizabeth)
- Dan and Elizabeth discuss the blurry line between historical analysis and modern moralizing. Both caution against simple finger-wagging at the past (35:34–36:33).
- Elizabeth champions the approach of anthropologist Clifford Geertz, advocating understanding history "from the ground up" through cultural context.
6. Conclusion: Types of Failure Discussed (38:45–39:12)
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Elizabeth’s summary: Three categories of historical failure:
- Failure of memory (e.g., Hatshepsut’s erasure)
- Failure embedded in structural power (e.g., Joanna Ferrer)
- Failure of contemporary imagination to recognize visionary ideas (e.g., Ada Lovelace’s delayed recognition)
-
Parting note: “People will catch up with us eventually.” (38:45, Dan)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On the nature of domestic roles in history
"The way that you have framed those arguments is gendered... the female influence in what you term the domestic sphere is incredibly important because that is often shaping future humans."
—Elizabeth Day (03:42)
On Hatshepsut’s legitimacy
"...there was this idea that being a pharaoh was almost like occupying the White House, that there was a sort of power repository, and you were the symbol of that on earth."
—Elizabeth Day (09:38)
On the erasure of women
"In a way, the failure is the failure of the system to acknowledge that she was a great ruler."
—Elizabeth Day (14:43)
On retroactive feminism
"We can't wish progressive thinking on the past."
—Dan Jones (25:43)
On intersectionality in historical erasure
"...so important when we're talking about this topic, to remember those women who were not only disadvantaged in the historical record by their gender, but also by lots of other intersections..."
—Elizabeth Day (34:51)
On how history is judged
"...it's impossible as human beings to remove our reaction towards the morality of those times. And it would be sort of deranged and demented not to pass comment on it."
—Dan Jones (35:30)
Timestamps for Major Segments
- 01:18 — Opening debate: why are women left out of history?
- 07:15 — Introduction to Hatshepsut and her story
- 13:46 — The gendered memory of female power (and digression on hummus)
- 17:06 — Introduction to the Peasants' Revolt and Joanna Ferrer
- 24:50 — The paradox of record destruction and self-erasure
- 28:22 — Joan, the Fair Maid of Kent: sexism in medieval chronicles
- 30:18 — Ada Lovelace’s life and delayed acclaim
- 34:21 — Intersectionality and the limits of historical judgment
- 38:45 — Three types of historical failure summarized
- 39:12 — Teaser for the next episode
Final Thoughts
Through three vivid case studies and spirited debate, Dan and Elizabeth illustrate the deep-rooted mechanisms by which women's stories slip out of history—sometimes deliberately, sometimes by accident, often by a mix of both. They urge listeners to recognize both the progress made and the challenges remaining, while resisting the urge to flatten the past into modern terms. This episode is both a call to recognize structural failures in remembrance and a celebration of the rediscovery of history’s forgotten women.