← This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
ADHD in Women, Nervous System Regulation & Getting Out of Fight-or-Flight with Jenna Free | 396
00:39:33
ADHD counselor Jenna Free joins Nicole Kalil to explore ADHD in women, nervous system regulation, and why traditional productivity advice often fails neurodivergent brains — offering a new approach to focus, balance, and sustainable success.
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- [00:01]
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- [00:28]
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- [00:55]
Nicole Khalil
only offer quick pause. We expanded to YouTube because we keep hearing I needed this 20 years ago and the next generation shouldn't have to wait. So tell the young women in your world who are scrolling and watching to subscribe to this is woman's work on YouTube. I am Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the this Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. We're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And if there's one thing we're not doing here, it's pretending that everybody or every brain works the same way. I'm so sick of everyone being put in a box of one size fits all solutions, of accepting that there's some right or wrong way to do or be anything. I could go on for days about how this happens with our bodies, but today we're talking about our brains. Because somewhere along the line we decided that there was a right way to think or to focus, to work, to organize, to be productive, sit still, follow the system, use the planner, be more disciplined, and just for the love of God, focus. And when those things don't work, the assumption isn't that the system might be flawed. The assumption is that you are. But over the last few years, I've noticed something interesting. A lot of incredibly successful women leaders, creators, entrepreneurs have been sharing that they have adhd. And while any diagnosis can come with fear questions and what does this mean for me now, I've also heard something else. Relief. Relief that there is an explanation for why some things feel harder than they should. Relief that maybe the problem wasn't a lack of discipline or capability. Relief that maybe, maybe those one size fits all solutions, things like the perfectly color coded planners, the endless productivity hacks, the advice to get organized, were never designed for their brains in the first place. And that matters because when the narrative is that success requires doing things in a very specific way, anyone who operates differently is left thinking that they're the problem. So today we're challenging that idea because whether you've been diagnosed with adhd, suspect you might have it, love someone who does, or simply want to understand different ways that our brains operate. This conversation is for you. Our guest is Jenna Free, a counselor for ADHD with adhd. And she helps people understand why their brains get stuck in chronic fight or flight and how to regulate their nervous system so life doesn't feel so overwhelming. She's the creator of ADHD regulation groups and the ADHD regulation method and the author of the Simple Guide to adhd, the secret to finding balance, getting things done and enjoying your life. Jenna, thank you so much for being here. And I'd love to start with what probably is the basic of basics. What does it actually mean to have adhd? Because I think it's a term we hear a lot, people throw it around a lot. What might actually be happening or what does it feel like to have adhd?
- [04:21]
Jenna Free
Absolutely. So in science's understanding right now we call ADHD a brain difference. So it's not a disease. It's. I know the name Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder has disorder in it. But we really are seeing that this is a brain difference. So we're different. Nothing's wrong. You know, this is, it's is different than mental illness. So that is really important to know is, oh, I just think differently than the typical. But what I have seen is that that difference has pushed us into fight or flight, which is creating a lot of the symptoms and debilitating symptoms we're seeing from ADHD years. And to have ADHD right now means you have enough symptoms that match what's in the DSM 5. So it's a very prescriptive model. But we'll also hear that ADHD language, like you said of oh, I feel so adhd or just if someone can't focus, we're using that term, which of course is not a diagnosis. So there's a lot of stereotypes about adhd, the little boy running around the classroom. And I'm sure lots of the listeners know this too, that that is growing. We know this is a lot of girls and women who. It's mostly internal. It's internal frantic energy. The symptoms are inside, not necessarily on the outside. It's not necessarily inconveniencing anyone else or bothering anyone else. Too bad. So we're not flagged as easily as those hyperactive external people.
- [05:51]
Nicole Khalil
So I'm so glad that you said that. I think that's really fascinating. I also wanna hone in on a couple key things. Brain difference, super important. And you said the term right now several times, which leads me to believe that this is an ever evolving, constantly learning and that things have changed from what we thought it was even maybe three to five years ago. Is that fair?
- [06:18]
Jenna Free
Absolutely. And I, my, my approach is slightly counterculture, a little controversial maybe. I do believe it's going to continue to change because as I've seen working with thousands of ADHDers and doing this work on myself is that I think the field currently has conflated ADHD and dysregulation. They've put it in one package and called it adhd. Assuming that dysregulation is inevitable, there's nothing we can do about it. The fact that you have ADHD brings about you in fight or flight. Too bad, so sad. All we can do is cope. But I have not seen that to be the case working with so many people and myself. We can get out of fight or flight even with the ADHD brain and in doing so those symptoms are going to be much lower. Stress is going to go down, anxiety is going to go down, executive functioning goes up, and executive functioning is kind of the main complaint of adhd. Not able to plan, prioritize, think clearly, that all goes up. So I do suspect as we move forward in the field that we are going to start getting more conversation around, oh, do we actually have a clear picture of adhd? Because we've, we've confused these two things.
- [07:31]
Nicole Khalil
So I'm not sure I will ask this question very well, but how do we then distinguish between the two? I would imagine they're interconnected, but you're saying they're different. So can you help? I don't know, maybe some examples help us to not conflate the two.
- [07:49]
Jenna Free
As someone who's talked with so many ADHDers, I do have a theory that every single ADHDER isn't fight or flight unless you've actively worked on it. So you probably can assume some of your symptoms are from being disregulated. And the only way to tell the difference is to get regulated. So this is why I always recommend that work first and foremost. So my dream would be in the future when someone get that gets that diagnosis. Okay, first thing we're going to do, get you out of fight or flight. Then we can see what we're left with. Because I still, I still have adhd. I still feel it, I still see it, but my gosh, it is probably 20% of the struggle that it used to be.
- [08:27]
Nicole Khalil
Okay, so if somebody were to receive an ADHD diagnosis, I have questions about that, but based on what you're saying is one of maybe the primary or initial things to focus on is regulation and getting out of that fight or flight so you can then go on to the next stage or phase of that?
- [08:50]
Jenna Free
Yeah, absolutely. Because if we don't. So if we get that ADHD diagnosis and carry on as it, if. Okay, this is just how it is. The symptoms are what they are. This is the brain I have. We are going to play whack a mole for the rest of our lives. The symptoms are going to come up. Oh, how do I deal with this instance of being frozen? How do I deal with this instance of procrastination? How do I do deal with this moment of overwhelm instead of my. This approach of regulation as a focus and a foundation is let's get in that machine and rewire it so the moles aren't popping up every five seconds. That is a much more effective approach than the tips, the tricks, the strategies and the hacks to try to keep ourselves afloat.
- [09:35]
Nicole Khalil
Okay, so we've had a couple guests on talking about nervous system regulation and, and things that we can do there. I'm curious, not my area of expertise, how do we regulate? How do we, I don't know, break the cycle of dysregulation maybe, is what I'm trying to ask.
- [09:56]
Jenna Free
Yeah, absolutely. So regulation's a tricky word because people assume they know what I'm talking about when I talk about regulation. For ADHDers, we think deep breaths, we think tapping, we think yoga meditation. But that is a very small part of it. And I would say that's a bit more of spot treatment or whack a mole in itself of, oh, I gotta go to a yoga class because I'm so dysregulated. So I'm getting very dysregulated and trying to help myself instead of working on it more consistently over time in smaller ways to get that system out of fight or flight. So when I talk about regulation instead of even Safety as the main focus, because that's what it is. It's a system that feels unsafe, your nervous system. So it's in this kind of fight orf flight scared mode. And that's very exhausting and increases our ADHD symptoms to regulate means to find the rate or speed at WI which we function best. So it's actually about finding balance. So for people out there who maybe think, oh, yeah, I've heard it all before, do the deep breaths. It hasn't worked. Instead of thinking of calming your body down, we want to think of getting out of the extremes. So for ADHDers, that's gonna be all or nothing thinking. That's gonna be the frantic crash cycle. Cause for ADHD years, often the rhythm is, I do everything one day and I collapse and do nothing the next. And then I'll work up and do three weeks of work in six hours and collapse and do nothing the next. So that's where we see our dysregulation is in those extremes. And we're working towards finding balance, which is going to calm the nervous system down. And you can live in that space, which is gonna be a lot more effective.
- [11:44]
Nicole Khalil
Okay, first, I love that you said that, you know, we kind of think we know what we're talking about, and you gave some examples. And I will tell you, my own personal experience, especially when I'm feeling dysregulated, is the last thing I need is more shit to do, right? Like, okay, you know, you can tell me to go meditate, do yoga. Breathe deeply till you're blue in the face. I'm, like, barely hanging on here, right? Like I'm about to be underwater. I don't have time or space for that. That's. That's what my reaction is. So I love this focus on balance and safety. And I wonder, because all of our brains are different, there is no one size fits all solution that might look a little bit different for each of us. The way we feel balanced, the way we feel safe. Is that a fair statement? And can you give us some maybe unique examples of how people do create balance and safety for themselves?
- [12:46]
Jenna Free
Yeah, absolutely. So I do have three different layers to the work that I do. There's nervous system regulation. We still do need that. You can't be running around like a chicken with your head cut off and expect your body to feel calm and safe and balanced. Um, but then there's thought and belief regulation and behavior regulation. So I'll give a little example of each one. So nervous system regulation. You're exactly Right. People give the advice of go meditate, I am drowning. I can barely survive the day as it is. You want me to do something else? In theory, it would be helpful. In practice doesn't work. So I recommend in the moment nervous system regulation. Meaning, and this is, I'll just give a one tiny snippet so it's not overwhelming. Rushing is a sign of dysregulation. If you become someone who practices catching yourself, rushing and slowing down as much as possible, that is going to be more helpful than a daily meditation session. Because when we are rushing, you are telling your body, there's a bear here, you're about to get eaten, we gotta run. So it's keeping you, it's fueling the fire. When we interrupt that and slow down. Even if you're late, there's gonna be a lot of reasons why your brain thinks rushing is justified. Even if you're late, when you're running to the car, oh, I'm dysregulated and I walk. If you can do that even a little bit here and there and it'll grow with time, that would be really valuable and is much more accessible to somebody. More so than like a daily yoga class or meditation session.
- [14:19]
Nicole Khalil
Yeah. Okay, that resonates. I will be upfront that I don't have adhd, or at least I don't think I do. And that still completely resonates because, yes, that feeling of rushed panic, I mean, I've never been chased by a bear, but I understand that our brains can't quite distinguish between them and it is an awful feeling.
- [14:43]
Jenna Free
This work is relevant for every single brain. So even though I work with ADHDers specifically, that's just because it. I have found that every ADHD is in fight or flight and for them to get out of fight or flight will save their lives. But this regulation would work for anybody that's dysregulated. So it's still relevant.
- [15:00]
Nicole Khalil
Great. So thoughts, right? So you just did nervous system. Let's talk about thoughts.
- [15:05]
Jenna Free
Yeah. So the thought and belief regulation is one that I rarely hear about when people talk about regulation. But it is, dare I say, the richest, thickest, most complicated part. Because if you live with a nervous system that feels in fear, that has formed the way we think, that has formed our belief systems, and if we keep thinking the same way and don't start questioning it, it's just going to re trigger that dysregulation again and again and again. So one thing would to notice would be, am I fighting with reality? If we are fighting with reality, you are going to be dysregulated. So that might look like should statements, oh, I should really be doing work. But the reality is you're not. But I should be doing work, but you're not. So you're just fighting with reality. And that gets the system in a panic and can put you in a freeze. It can put you into avoidance. So we want to observe that. It might be beliefs like there's not enough time in the day, but the reality is there is the time. There is. There's not enough time. There's not enough time. Instantly my nervous system is triggered back into rushing and off we go. And then the number one belief that's dysregulating and fighting with reality that I see from ADHD years is, I'm behind, I need to catch up. If you are trying to slow down physically while also believing I'm behind, I need to catch up. It is going to be an internal tug of war where you don't get anywhere because no sane person would think, oh, I'm behind. Say you're in a race, I'm behind. Everyone's ahead of me, let me slow down.
- [16:40]
Nicole Khalil
Right.
- [16:42]
Jenna Free
That doesn't make any sense. So when we believe that thought I'm behind, I need to catch up. Instant panic, instant tension, instant pressure. Now I'm rushing. I'm back where I started. So we're not able to make any headway if we don't work on those beliefs as well.
- [16:59]
Nicole Khalil
Again, makes perfect sense. And I can relate. And I've experienced all of those. So let's talk about then behavior regulation.
- [17:09]
Jenna Free
So the behavior is where we find those extremes in what we do. So all or nothing thinking, which turns into all or nothing doing, would be one of those. So I either clean my whole house, wipe the baseboards, and clean out all the closets, or I'm not even going to pick my jacket up off the floor. I'm either going to throw myself into work and stay late and get hammer this stuff out, or I'm so disengaged I can't even send an email. So that happens a lot for ADHD years, which keeps us in this flinging from one extreme to the other, which is dysregulation. Right. If you have a dysregulated heart rate, it's all over the place. It's not steady and sustainable. So for that, we want to look at practicing flexible thinking. So all or nothing thinking is rigid, it's rules, it's extreme. Flexible thinking is freedom. Flexibility, obviously. So an example of that would be chipping away. So a lot of people don't want to start a task because they're envisioning, well, I have to do the whole thing in one sitting. I don't. That's a three hour task and I don't have three hours, so I'm not even going to start. So to challenge that, we want to practice chipping away. Well, let me work on this for 10 minutes. And that might sound like a really basic tip or trick, but we're actually retraining the nervous system that is safe to do little bits. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. You get collect a little evidence of, oh, that was kind of nice and kind of effective. Look at that. I just chipped away at this project and got it done over the week instead of needing to amp myself up and get it all done in one sitting. So that would be an example of purposefully doing the uncomfortable thing to retrain your nervous system. That the extremes are not where we need to live. That is not keeping us safe. And that's another way to find balance.
- [19:02]
Nicole Khalil
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- [20:22]
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- [21:23]
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- [21:53]
Nicole Khalil
this aligns so much with what I have learned about building confidence. I think a lot of times we think our actions need to be big, bold and meaningful in order for them to count. I put in air quotes and what we found is small incremental steps built up accumulated over time lead and yield. Big confidence. And so breaking it down into a 10 minute makes so much sense to me. All right now I said this earlier and I wonder how much this plays a part in dysregulation. We are all so freaking busy and if we're the busiest one day and then doing nothing the next day but then beating ourselves up for it. Is there anything we need to do to address our busyness so that we even have the opportunity to slow down or is that not part of this?
- [22:53]
Jenna Free
Absolutely. Something we can do is zoom out and go am I focused on getting as much done as possible today, or am I focused on being sustainable? If you think, okay, could I live this day every weekday for the next five years? If you can't, it's probably too much because that's what we think, well, I'll go hard today and I'll. I'll get over this hump. I'll just get over this crazy week. Then I can relax. That's an illusion. It's never going to come. And then your relax is a crash for eight each year. It's this frantic crash cycle. I'm going to push, push, push, push, push, push. Now I'm stuck on the couch for two days and back up we go. Push, push. So we really want to focus on zooming out and going, how am I functioning over the month? Not how much did I get done this afternoon? Cuz that's what gets us stuck in these traps of intensity and crash.
- [23:40]
Nicole Khalil
I love that perspective. I was thinking like just the could I live this day every day, this week? And how often I've put myself in the situation where the answer would be an emphatic no. I would just burn out. So, something to think about. There are a few things that you or your team sent that I used to prepare for our conversation that I am curious about. So one of them was visualizing our to do list from a linear place versus a vertical place. What does that mean?
- [24:14]
Jenna Free
Yes, absolutely. So when we are dysregulated, we do have that rushing sensation. The brain is hypervigilant so we can see everything at once. So big thing for adhders is it's either now or not now. And when everything feels important, if it's all now, I can't do everything now. I can only do things one at a time. So when I'm perceiving everything at once, I see it like a brick wall. If I'm staring at the brick wall, yeah, I'm gonna avoid the brick wall. I'm gonna freeze up. I'm going to productively procrastinate by doing everything except tackling that brick wall. So in our mind's eye, if you can lay the brick wall down as a brick path and accept that reality that, oh, things only ever happen one step at a time and life is more of a path than it is a wall. I cannot smash the wall, but I could walk down the path. What is one step I could take? And this is a little bit of that flexible thinking again. So if you have a project in front of you thinking, oh my God, I have so many steps, there's so much research I need to do. There's so many people I need to email, and now I'm getting overwhelmed. Seeing the wall. Okay, lay down as a path, what's one brick I could step on? Not what is the one most perfect, efficient. Right. First brick, but what is a brick I can step on? So then maybe that's. I haven't even opened up the email to figure out what this project's all about. Okay, let me come back down to reality and do that one small step. If we can live in that linear space and time and perceive it as that, oh, my gosh, we're going to get less frozen, less step stuck, less overwhelmed. But it's that mental regulation that we gotta work on.
- [25:54]
Nicole Khalil
Okay, and then what do you mean by the difference between living in potential versus reality?
- [26:01]
Jenna Free
Mm. So living in potential versus reality is a place where everyone lives in these two different places, but when we have adhd. I was just on with one of my groups today talking about this, and they said they feel they probably spend 90% of their time in potential. And what potential is, is. Is in our mind, all that world where I should be doing this, I could be doing that. What is the right thing to do? How can I make this the most efficient? It's all of the thinking, the judgments, the planning, the guilt, the shame, the negative self talk. It's this whole world that exists that no one else can see. Right. This is not a place where you could point to and say, look, right. Your friends can't see it. But that is a whole world where we can spend time. Reality is what is currently physically happening. Feet on the ground in the now. So if we are spending our time in potential, 90% of our time, like a lot of ADHDers say, we get zero fruit for that labor. It's hard work being up there.
- [27:00]
Nicole Khalil
Yeah.
- [27:00]
Jenna Free
All that mental energy is siphoning our energy, which ADHDers often complain about being exhausted all the time, even if we haven't gotten anything done, but that's energy. So we have a big hole in our energy bucket getting nothing from for it when we're in reality, which is just a part of that mental regulation and that practice of interrupting being in potential. Oh, the reality is I'm writing an email. Now what? I like to add a now what? Because acceptance and living in reality is not complacency. Right? Oh, the reality is I didn't do my workout. Okay, but now what? If you didn't do your workout now what, are you gonna go do it now? Because now and reality is the only place we have any power. It's the only place we can accomplish anything. And it's the place where we get a lot of fruit for our labor. Put the clothes in the wash, you get clean, clean clothes. Do that. Work assignment. The work is done for the weekend, so we just want to observe the two different places. First step is always awareness. And then second step for all the regulation tools is interruption. So if I notice I'm getting caught up in potential and I'm sitting at my desk going, oh, I should have done this work yesterday. Oh, I should have. I can't believe I didn't. Oh, I'm in potential. Okay. The reality is I haven't started this project. Now what?
- [28:22]
Nicole Khalil
I love everything about that. I do find very often that there's one step that we tend to add between the noticing and the now what? And that is beating ourselves up. Like noticing that I'm rushing and then I have the story like, oh, I'm such a bad mom. And then, then maybe I'll get to the now what? Any tips or ideas or advice around either minimizing or skipping not beating ourselves up step?
- [28:54]
Jenna Free
Yeah, that's such a good comment. Absolutely. That what we want to do is realize that's part of potential. Guilt and shame is potential. That's your system trying to motivate you negatively. And so when we're in a dysregulated state, the motivators are guilt, shame, urgency and fear. We don't want to use those because that just keeps us in this frantic cycle. It increases our symptoms and makes everything so much worse. So if you're aware you're in potential going, oh, I'm stuck in potential. I'm so bad for being stuck in potential. We can just be where, ah, I'm still up there. I haven't come back down to reality yet. Because that's living in the potential. Is that judgment? Morality, judgment. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, good, bad. So then we wanna observe. Oh, that's my brain's mechanism trying to keep me safe, trying to motivate me negatively to move and survive. But I'm, you know, I'm not falling for it. So if you can just observe it, it's not necessarily gonna go away today, but observe it for what it is. It gives you a little bit of distance from it instead of thinking, oh, if I feel guilt and shame for this, it's cuz I'm bad. And because it's true. No, you feel guilt and shame because your brain's trying to Protect you and get you to run from the bear. But there's no bear. So that is a really interesting part of regulation work, which to cultivate that I would recommend for everyone just to observe. Do I have a judgmental mentality right now or curious mindset? We want curiosity when it comes to regulation. Like, isn't that interesting? Look at what my brain is doing. So we want to feel like your brain is a science experiment and you are the scientist. We don't judge the results. We just go, hmm, very interesting. And then we can do something about it. And I think that's the biggest power of regulation work, is being able to notice something you wanna change without feeling guilt and shame that it's not the way you want it to be.
- [30:52]
Nicole Khalil
To me, that is so incredibly powerful. Powerful. This guilt, shame, all the things, those negative emotions. Yes. It's our brain trying to protect us. And it's what happens when we're in a dysregulated state. Curiosity is always a great sign to me that I am in a healthier place. And I love that you said that. So I have a couple more questions, the next one, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there are any gender components to adhd. But I do wonder if there are some differences or nuances in how women may be experiencing it or being treated with it, or people's opinions about it. Is there anything from a gender standpoint that we should be mindful of?
- [31:47]
Jenna Free
I do believe it's from socialization. So girls are taught to be quiet, you know, just be seen and not heard. A little different than boys. We kind of accept the rambunctiousness in boys. So I do believe women and girls get better at masking, meaning I'm hiding it on the outside, I'm dying on the inside. I'm just still drowning. I'm still having all the same hardship, but I'm able to fake it on the outside. That was definitely my experience. I was the goody goody in school. I was always looking at the teacher and nodding like, how can I mask that? You know, I'm confused or I'm behind or I didn't do the homework or whatever it is. So I think there's the socialization component that makes women better at hiding it, which is why so many women get diagnosed in 30s and up compared to many boys get diagnosed earlier. And then secondly, hormonally does affect dysregulation. So a lot of people say that ADHD gets worse during perimenopause. And menopause or ADHD gets worse during that time of the month, during our cycles. But what I have seen is actually lowered estrogen increases dysregulation. So it's, you're actually becoming more dysregulated during those times, not necessarily your ADHD getting worse. And I think that's really important because then we know, ah, okay, time for some regulation work. Because this is my dysregulation is getting bad, not my ADHD brain. Because your brain is what it is always. But of course if there's internal changes that's going to affect kind of the state we're in.
- [33:15]
Nicole Khalil
Again, another super powerful distinction that I think is so important. My last question is around, you know, this sort of evolving landscape and then there must still be traditional ADHD tools and advice. And I guess my question is where is the traditional stuff missing the mark?
- [33:39]
Jenna Free
I think the traditional ADHD advice, kind of what I've already said is assuming your struggle is because of the brain you have, there's nothing we can do about that. So I'm here to put a band aid on it. I'm here to do the whack a mole game and, and I really don't think that's the best way. And often some of the tools, because we are not seeing that we're also in fight or flight will exacerbate that. So you will see advice of create false urgency to get yourself motivated. You're just fueling your dysregulation. Set a timer and race against the clock. Don't do that, don't do that. That's making it so much worse. So the advice that's out there is so well meaning and it's not that none of it's effective. Right. Body doubling is a common thing that people advise for ADHD years. That's great, that's effective. But it's a band aid that's going to help you do your work for this 30 minutes. That's not going to make you more able to focus on your work long term. So use the band aids where you need them. Sometimes we need band aids to get through, but we also want to be doing the surgery, if you will, to heal the problem a little bit more profoundly so that we're not having to use so many band aids. And that would be, I think, the biggest thing that's missing in the mainstream ADHD narrative right now.
- [34:56]
Nicole Khalil
I know we're both agreed on there is no one size fits all solution for anything. But my question is where and when does medication Play a part. Where does it not. Any thoughts or advice around the medication component?
- [35:12]
Jenna Free
So one like, I've been there where I was crying to my husband after getting my diagnosis. I'm like, I'm drowning. Get me to that medication like it is a life preserver for so many people. And power to you. There's no don't. There's no right or wrong. So I don't want to bring any morality into it. It's like, oh, you shouldn't need that, or it's bad. You should do more holistic things. Like, that is not the case. And when you become aware of the dysregulation piece of adhd, you may find the medication to be more dysregulating than helpful. Eventually, maybe not at first. Maybe at first it's just keeping you afloat. Now I can do the regulation work. And eventually you may find it is a stimulant. Right? It can amp you up. And if you're already in that frantic state, yes, you're getting a lot done, but you're still crashing when that medication wears off. You're not necessarily healing anything and changing the. The trajectory of how things are going. So I do hear that a lot is. It's not enough for most people. For many people who go on, it to start is gonna give you a real hit at first, and that effect will fade over time, and it's meant to. So if it feels like the first day is like, this is the answer to everything, just be aware that that might fade, and that's okay. That's very normal, and you can go on and go off of it later. This is not like an SSRI where it's so particular. You have to wean so carefully. Some people take their ADHD medication in the work days and not the weekends. It's a very flexible medication where you can take it, you know, sporadically. So it's not something you have to be absolutely terrified to go on, because now you're stuck on it for 10 years, for example. So just to kind of take a little bit of the fear away from people. But also, I personally have never been on medication because I had a really difficult time at first when I got my diagnosis. But I was just finishing my grad school, and I know medications can have side effects, so I didn't want to rock the boat. I was like, okay, I'll just get through these next couple months, then I'll see how I'm feeling. And then my life was a little less hectic, having finished school. And then I found this regulation work, and I've never looked back, and I truly feel like I am a different person than I was three or four years ago because of this work. And I have not been on medication. So just to say there's tons of work we can do that can give you so much relief, that is not medication, but it always. It has its place for different people.
- [37:31]
Nicole Khalil
I appreciate you saying that, and I really appreciate you saying that. It's not a morality thing. Um, I think sometimes we get really caught in this, right or wrong, black or white, and then it triggers judgment of ourselves and others, which is generally not helpful and probably a sign of dysregulation, right?
- [37:48]
Jenna Free
Yes, it is.
- [37:49]
Nicole Khalil
I mean, I could ask you 1 million more questions. I am very appreciative for the people who are listening who either have ADHD or think they might or are struggling. I'm also incredibly grateful for those of us who don't because there was just such good advice, and I think we all struggle with some of these things in some form or another. This felt very universal, even though it's very designed to help those with adhd. So thank you. Thank you, listener. You can find more about Jenna and her work on social media or listen to our podcast or go to our website. All of it is at ADHD with Jenna free. And definitely go get her book, the Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation, available on Amazon or wherever you buy books. Let's keep our local bookstores in business. Again, Jenna, thank you for being our guest and for your incredibly important work.
- [38:49]
Jenna Free
Thank you so much.
- [38:50]
Nicole Khalil
All right, friends. For so many people with adhd, life can feel like a constant cycle of pushing harder, trying another system, downloading another planner, setting another reminder, all in the hope that something will finally fix you. But what if you were never the problem to begin with? What if the real shift isn't trying harder to force your brain into somebody else's system, but learning how your brain actually works and building a life that works with it instead of fighting or freezing against it. And listen, regulation is not about perfection. We're not talking about becoming the perfectly organized, always on top of things person who the world seems to reward. It's about you understanding your patterns, resetting when you're dysregulated, giving yourself tools that actually support you instead of shame you, and maybe most importantly, letting go of the belief that life is supposed to feel this hard. You deserve a life that works for you and learning to honor the way your brain works instead of apologizing for it. Well, that is woman's work. Lifelock.
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Jenna Free
How can I help? The IRS said I filed my return,
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What do I do?
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Jenna Free
My refund though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry, I can fix this.
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Jenna Free
I'm so relieved.
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Jenna Free
I'll be with you every step of the way.
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Jenna Free
slid into your DMs. Grab that boho. Look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling.
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Nicole Khalil
Ross.
- [40:47]
Jenna Free
Work your magic.
- [40:50]
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