Am I Being a B**ch? (…or Just Finally in My Power) with Megan Walrod | 349

Summary

Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
Episode: “Am I Being a B**ch? (…or Just Finally in My Power)” with Megan Walrod | #349
Air Date: October 1, 2025

Host Nicole Kalil and guest Megan Walrod, a women’s empowerment coach and author, unpack the gendered slur “bitch”—examining whether women’s self-advocacy is misperceived as negativity and how to tell the difference between genuine assertiveness and destructive behavior. Together, they challenge the “good girl” conditioning so many women have inherited, offering tools to claim personal power, set boundaries, and reframe negative self-talk. The discussion blends candid personal anecdotes, practical strategies, and a strong encouragement to reclaim one’s own narrative and power.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Reclaiming Power from “Good Girl” Conditioning

[02:25–05:07]

• Opening Reflection: Nicole discusses how her upbringing and societal expectations taught her to be polite, accommodating, and nurturing—and how, when she advocates for herself, she questions, “Am I being a bitch?”
• She notes the internal tug of war: wanting to be bold and direct versus fearing negative perception.
• Quote—Nicole:

  “More often than not, I’m not actually being a bitch. I’m just not being what the world still expects women to be: sugar and spice and everything nice. Because that’s not me.” [03:44]

Megan Walrod’s Wake-Up Call: Advocating Without Apology

[05:07–07:36]

• Megan recounts a pivotal moment negotiating the terms for her debut novel’s contract. After advocating for her needs and pushing back, she felt intense anxiety and self-doubt.
• She describes the internal crossroads: Should she apologize and retreat, or stand firm?
• Quote—Megan:

  “I was seeing assertive communication through the lens of that good girl training and cultural conditioning that says, girlfriend, you’re doing something wrong.” [07:04]

Distortion vs. Authenticity: How to Tell the Difference

[07:36–12:46]

• Body Cues: Megan emphasizes tuning into physical sensations (nausea, contraction, short breath) as indicators of internalized stories.
  • She notes that discomfort doesn’t necessarily mean you’re wrong—it could be growing pains from breaking old patterns.
• Nicole discusses how, for her, unpleasant physical sensations (like a sick stomach) can signal both courage and regret; time and reflection help her discern the difference.
• Practice Makes Clarity: Both agree that only through repeated, conscious practice can women distinguish between genuine self-empowerment and old habits of self-doubt or shame.
• Quote—Megan:

  “Look for the cues in our bodies and look for the thought or the story in the mind. Because often the story is based on these invisible, unwritten rules that we've learned as women as part of our good girl training.” [09:19]

Generative vs. Destructive Assertiveness

[12:46–15:04]

• Megan introduces the concept of the “generative bitch” (someone who is bold, clear, and upholds boundaries) versus the “destructive bitch” (hostile, reactive).
  • Gives practical example: Staying firm but respectful when interrupted in meetings.
• Nicole raises concerns about the gendered nature of “bitch” and suggests “asshole” as a more universal term, prompting debate on reclaiming language.
• Quote—Megan:

  “If using [‘bitch’] gives you a sense of power, taps you into something that other time is stifled, go for it... The truth is, we rock the status quo when we are in our power.” [16:07]

Choice as the Root of Power

[18:12–19:43]

• Nicole and Megan agree that standing in power is about making conscious choices, not following scripts.
• Megan suggests playful daily experiments like asking, “How can I be a generative bitch today?” to practice boundary-setting and self-advocacy.

Managing “Head Trash” and the Inner Critic

[19:43–26:03]

• Nicole identifies self-critical thoughts (the “head trash”) as a huge confidence derailer.
  • She encourages listeners to treat these inner voices with curiosity, not hostility.
• Megan: Instead of fighting the inner critic, name it (“the doubting diva”) and approach it compassionately; recognize it as a protective—if misguided—mechanism.
• Shift from fighting the critic to asking: “Is there another way to see this?”
• Quote—Nicole:

  “We say shit about ourselves that we would never say out loud to anyone that we love. And yet... I can’t even imagine turning to my daughter and be like, are you being a bitch?” [19:56]

Creating New Patterns: Mindset Shifts & Neuroplasticity

[26:03–27:35]

• Megan uses the “snake in the dark room” metaphor—seeing threats where there are none, and how challenging those perceptions helps rewire the brain.
• Every time a new, empowering perspective is chosen, it carves healthier neural pathways.

Self-Awareness vs. Overthinking—How to Find Your Line

[27:35–33:17]

• Nicole wonders about people who seem genuinely difficult versus those misunderstood as assertive.
• Megan advises releasing the myth of a perfect “middle line.” The solution is practice and play: swing the pendulum to test boundaries both ways, learn what feels authentic, and give yourself permission to repair when you go too far.
• Quote—Megan:

  “I needed to swing [the pendulum] so far to find the middle ground. So permission to let your voice say all the things, permission to feel it in your body, explore it in safe places first… to then play with, so now how do I want to handle that with that person?” [29:29]

Signs You’re Not Swinging Far Enough—Cultural and Embodied Consequences

[33:17–36:18]

• Megan shares a personal story about her mother’s rheumatoid arthritis and the link between suppressed expression and women’s health.
• Offers practical exercises:
  • Reflect and Plan: After you “didn’t say the thing”—use it as motivation for next time.
  • The “Fuck You Walk:” Move your body and loudly vent all repressed frustration in a private space to reclaim your power.
• Quote—Megan:

  “When we take ourselves on these fuck you walks, we let it all get said... we move it through our body. We stop suppressing and we find our way to our power.” [35:30]

Closing Reflections: Redefining Woman’s Work

[36:53–37:18]

• Nicole closes with a rallying cry: Standing up for yourself isn’t bad behavior—it’s integrity, it’s confidence, it’s power.
• Quote—Nicole:

  “If somebody calls you a bitch, it might just be because you’re out there on your fuck you walk. And it’s definitely because you’re out there doing woman’s work.” [37:18]

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “More often than not, I’m not actually being a bitch. I’m just not being what the world still expects women to be: sugar and spice and everything nice. Because that’s not me.”
  —Nicole Kalil [03:44]

• “I was seeing assertive communication through the lens of that good girl training and cultural conditioning that says, girlfriend, you’re doing something wrong.”
  —Megan Walrod [07:04]

• “Look for the cues in our bodies and look for the thought or the story in the mind...”
  —Megan Walrod [09:19]

• “If using [‘bitch’] gives you a sense of power... go for it. The truth is we rock the status quo when we are in our power.”
  —Megan Walrod [16:07]

• “We say shit about ourselves that we would never say out loud to anyone that we love.”
  —Nicole Kalil [19:56]

• “I needed to swing [the pendulum] so far to find the middle ground. So permission to let your voice say all the things...”
  —Megan Walrod [29:29]

• “When we take ourselves on these fuck you walks... we stop suppressing... and we find our way to our power.”
  —Megan Walrod [35:30]

• “If standing up for yourself makes you a bitch… then let’s be bitches. Because being honest, direct, and self-respecting – that’s not bad behavior. That’s integrity. It’s confidence.”
  —Nicole Kalil [36:53]

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Key Takeaways

• Self-advocacy for women is often misinterpreted as negative—challenge this story by tuning into your body and asking new questions.
• Make space for experimentation—swing the pendulum, get comfortable with discomfort, and learn to repair when you go too far.
• Redefine “bitch” (or substitute language) on your own terms—your word, your power.
• Compassion towards your inner critic fosters true growth; name it, acknowledge it, and then choose your narrative.
• Physical embodiment and expressive exercises (like the ‘fuck you walk’) help move emotions and reclaim strength.

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Additional Resources

• Megan Walrod’s website: MeganWalrod.com
• Her novel: It's Always Been Me

For more, see the episode show notes for links to Megan’s work and confidence-building resources.

Transcript

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[Co-host or Interviewer]

Foreign I am Nicole Kahlil, and on.

[Podcast Host Nicole Kahlil]

This episode of this Is Woman's Work podcast, we're diving into a question that I'm guessing most of us ask ourselves on a fairly regular basis. Or maybe I ask it often enough to cover all of us. And that is, am I being a bitch? Because like so many women, I was socialized to be others, focused to be polite, nurturing, accommodating, maybe even sweet or nice. Though if I'm being honest, I don't think anyone has ever used those words to describe me, not once in my entire life. Which has made me wonder more than once if I must be the opposite. Like when I speak up about my own wants or needs, when I set or stick to a boundary, when I stand up for myself, hold someone accountable, refuse to excuse bad behavior or call someone out for being a total dick, My brain still whispers that old familiar question, am I being a bitch? And in fairness, there are times I have been a bitch, and it'd be awfully presumptuous to assume that I've peaked just yet. I'm sure there will be more bitchy moments in my future. I'm also sure that I've been called one in rooms that I'm not in. Maybe because people don't have the guts to say it to my face. But hopefully I've grown enough over the years to handle conflict with a little bit more grace, empathy, and maturity. I mean, not always. Sometimes I still let rage and sarcasm take the wheel. But my point is that more often than not, I'm not actually being a. I'm just not being what the world still expects women to be. Sugar and spice and everything nice. Because that's not me. It never has been, nor do I want it to be. I'm more salty than sweet, and I've learned to own that. I've learned to like that. So maybe the better question is how do we know where the line is? How do we stop asking ourselves if we're being a bitch when the real issue isn't our behavior, it's how it's perceived when we show up strong, confident, or bold. Here to help us explore all of that is Megan Walrod, a woman's empowerment coach, published author, and founder of Live youe Yes. She spent the last 16 years helping women break free from their good girl training and live unapologetically. She's also the author of a debut novel that I devoured as part of an early readers group, and it's called It's Always Been Me, a story about a woman coming home to herself after sacrificing herself for her husband's dreams and success. It's honest, raw, and features one of my favorite storylines, when the woman saves herself. So, Megan, let's get right into this. Am I being a bitch? Unpack that for us. I'm sure there is A story here. So what was the situation that had you first wondering this?

[Megan Walrod]

I love that. And I love how you said, there are so many times that this question interrupts our flow, right? Like, am I being a bitch? It makes us pause. So the moment that is most vivid for me, that comes to mind, where it was really an opportunity for a wake up call, was I'd just gotten off the call with my potential publisher. They had offered me a book contract for my debut novel. And I'd had other colleagues say, oh, I just accepted it as it was and went with it. But I hired a lawyer because I wanted to understand what I was agreeing to. And my business model was different from the other authors. I wanted to make sure I had rights that they might not care about. So I'd gotten off a call where I'd been pushing back on some details of the contract. And after hanging up the phone, I started to feel nauseous, like, oh my gosh, am I being a bitch? Are they going to deem me a bitch, high maintenance, a diva, and pull the contract? And I started to freak out, like, this was my baby. What if they pulled the contract? What would happen with my novel? If they don't want to work with me, who would? And the moment I watched that contraction happen, like, this is the crossroads, right? I saw the question, am I being a bitch? And my self awareness, thank God, was like, hold on just a minute, Bessie. Like, let's look at this storyline happening here. And it was at that moment that I was at one of those crosswords where crossroads, where I realized I could buy the story that I was being a bitch, contracted myself even more, maybe even send a follow up email and say, I'm so sorry, you know what, I thought about it and let's just let it ride, it's fine. Or I could choose a different path where I could actually stick to my guns, so to say, and question this story of maybe I'm not really being a bitch. And so it was in that moment that I had one of those Cher in Moonstruck with Nicolas Cage moments where I literally was like, snap out of it. Like, wake the fuck up from that trance, girlfriend, you are not being a bitch. You are advocating for yourself. And that right there was that distortion that I've heard you talk about on this podcast before of where I was seeing assertive communication through the lens of that good girl training and cultural conditioning that says, girlfriend, you're doing something wrong.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So I love the word distortion because that's really what it is. So how do you tell the difference for yourself of when it's a distortion or when it's something real to consider? Because in full transparency, there are times where I have been. I don't know if a bitch is the right term, but I have been difficult or I have been in a bad mood, or I have thought about things and been like, oh, God, I did not handle that well. Right. So when is it a distortion and when is it an opportunity for self reflection?

[Megan Walrod]

I love this question. And there are two levels to it that I want to unpack with you. So the first level is, how do we know when it's a distortion? For me, my body, and for most of us women, our bodies speak loudly, and it's learning how to interpret those signs, those cues. So for me, I was feeling nauseous and I was feeling contracted. Like, I literally was starting to feel my whole upper body frame contract in major contraction. My breath was shorter, and my head was spinning with a story. So for me, I've come to recognize that this sign, this is not me being me in my power, in my confidence, in the ease and joy that I usually am. So the distortion is. And for each of us, it may be some version of that. It may be different. Maybe you get a twitch in your left eye and it just starts going, or you start clearing your throat because you're like, oh, I'm not actually speaking the truth here. So the distortions look for the cues in our bodies and look for the thought or the story in the mind. Because often the story is based on these invisible, unwritten rules that we've learned as women as part of our good girl training. I should be agreeable. I should be nice. I shouldn't push back. So those are two ways to recognize if it's a distortion, body cues, and the story. And it takes time to be able to recognize a story because it's kind of like the water that we live in is this. Well, that's just the way it is. That's true and right. So it's starting to question that story.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I think body cues is phenomenal. I couldn't be in more agreement. And I think it takes a little bit of practice and in order to figure out what your specific body cues are. There are times where, like, I have an initial body cue, but it takes me some time to recognize the difference between when I did something that I feel proud of myself for versus when I did something that I don't feel proud of myself for. But that initial reaction might be the same. The like kind of Sick feeling in my stomach that I often get when I'm brave and courageous, but I also often get when I'm stupid. The initial reaction might be the same. It's. For me, it's what happens with a little bit of time and space. And a lot of it is how I feel about myself after the reaction versus how I feel when I'm thinking about what other people must think of me.

[Megan Walrod]

That's a subtlety, right? Like, I presented it as a black and white. Like, it's usually this or that you're raising up the subtlety of. Often when we as women are making a different choice from what our conditioning and our conditioned mind and our inner critic want us to do, we feel completely uncomfortable. Oh, shit, they're gonna think I'm a bitch. Oh, no, I've done something wrong. Cause I'm making waves and I've been told not to rock the boat. So there is. There's a practice, There's a tuning into what story am I believing, what story am I buying here? And, oh, that's the shame that's arising because I'm doing something really different here. Or that's the guilt that's arising because conditioning tells me, be a hard worker. Don't enjoy pleasure. You know, so it's.

[Podcast Host Nicole Kahlil]

It's.

[Megan Walrod]

There are really subtle cues, and yet the body. There's so much wisdom that lives there. So it's getting to know that and recognize that through practice, through time. Absolutely.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And I love. And I'll just reiterate the through practice part I think is so important, because as you said, doing this is likely to feel uncomfortable because of our conditioning, because of people's perceptions or reactions. I've found it still to feel uncomfortable when I'm doing it. And being able to distinguish between discomfort and inauthenticity as an example or discomfort and shame. Right. And the only way I think we begin to tell the difference for ourselves.

[Podcast Host Nicole Kahlil]

And to be able to distinguish those.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Body cues is through practice. Okay, then you said there's a second part, so let's talk about that.

[Megan Walrod]

Yes, yes. So I'm all about. Let's reclaim the term bitch. Like. And I had a teacher once, a coach I worked with for a while, who gave such a great discernment of there is a generative bitch and there is a destructive bitch like you were talking about earlier. Sometimes I'm like, oh, I could have handled that better, or I was angry or I was hangry, and there could be more of that destructive bitch. And then there's the generative who can be like, I am fierce and brave and wise, and I am willing to stand up for my rights and values. And, like, one example of how that could look for, you know, a woman who's in a meeting and who keeps getting interrupted and talked over. Like, the destructive bitch could be like, shut up. I was talking. And. Or take on the practice of interrupting others repeatedly. Because there's that opinion of, well, they're interrupting me. I'm going to interrupt those. Them that can be that destructive bitch, the generative bitch who's talking and someone interrupts her could say, excuse me, I was talking. Let me finish making my point. And then I'll pause. If you have something to add. And keeps talking while someone is trying to talk over her, we've been told, be quiet, back up. Let them have their peace. I might come forward later. And so it's owning the power that comes in that generative bitch who's willing to uphold boundaries, speak our truth, even when it feels really uncomfortable.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay. I'm genuinely thinking out loud here. I don't know how I feel about this, but the word bitch has a gender component to it.

[Megan Walrod]

Mm.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I've, in, like, in the last several years, turned to the term asshole, because we all have one. It's not a gender thing. Right. Like, anyone can be an asshole. And we know when somebody's being an asshole. We know when we're being an asshole. I like the idea of reclaiming the word bitch. And there's a part of me that's like, it's so gendered. Is it better to be reclaimed? Is it better to be replaced? Is it better to be thrown out? And, like, do you see where I'm getting. Like, this is just me thinking out loud. What are your thoughts?

[Megan Walrod]

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm a total word geek, and so I love geeking out about specific words. I was. I was just sharing with someone the other day, like, instead of asking people to write a review on Amazon for your book, ask them to leave a review, because that just feels simpler. I'm just gonna leave a review instead of I've gotta write one. Total word geek. Okay, so for bitch. For me, honestly, this is one of those words that I use with one of my besties where we'll just joke around of, like, all right, bitches, time to pull up the big girl undies. And, like, get this shit done. You know? And it's like. It's a way of reclaiming power from it. So for me, I mean, ultimately. And I love that you're such an advocate of this too. Like it's your choice who's gonna lead this situation. It's your decision, who do you want to do that? Like your choices matter. And so for me it's like if in your own vocabulary you want to use asshole, don' be an asshole or oh, I'm being an asshole, use asshole. Yet if bitch encompasses, there's like an energy there, just like the C word. That's a four letter word that we were taught not to use because you know, hello, there's power there and there's we were taught it's dangerous. And the truth is we are the danger. We've been taught it's dangerous to be in our power to be a bitch. And the truth is we rock the status quo when we are in our power. So I'm a fan of personal choice and and whether it's gendered or not, if using it gives you a sense of power, taps you into something that other time is stifled, go for it. Go all in on fall with Abercrombie kids. Their newest drop of on trend outfits are ready for everything from the bus stop to family bonfires. And it wouldn't be fall without football. Gear up the the kids with officially licensed NFL tees and sweatshirts shop Abercrombie Kids this season in the app, online and in store. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com.

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[Co-host or Interviewer]

The nail on the head. This is about power and feeling powerful and choosing your own power. And I firmly believe that choice is the greatest power any of us have. And so it is a personal choice if if you want to reclaim the word bitch or and it's funny, I do use it in that term like we write it on bitches. Right? Like, but I think it's. It's about what makes you connect to and stand in your power that we're both talking about here.

[Megan Walrod]

Absolutely. Yep. Yep. And just like to riff on the choice piece too. We, and I know you talk about this, the moment to moment choices that we have throughout our day. That's a great way to practice right when we're questioning, am I being a bitch? What if the new question could be for fun, Cause I'm a big fan of taking on daily experiments to help myself get out of the limiting thinking is, how could I be a generative bitch for myself today? Like, how could I be a generative bitch? Where are some boundaries that require some upholding? Just like if I was a cowgirl. Where are some back fences that need to be visited and repaired? Let's fix those bitches. Like, let's just go on that journey today. How can I be a generative bitch for myself? I let that guide your choices.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Love that. Okay, so I think what we're ultimately talking about when the question pops up in our head, I'm gonna. There's no data on this, at least not that I know of, but I'm gonna guess like 80 to 90% of the time it's not an actual genuine question. It's what I call head trash or inner critic or negative thoughts or whatever we wanna call it. I call it head trash because I want it to sound as dirty and disgusting as it actually is. We say shit about ourselves that we would never say out loud to anyone that we love. And yet we, you know, like, I can't even imagine turning to my daughter and be like, are you being a bitch? You know, like, that would never happen. At least not the amount of times it happens in my own head. So all of that to say, how do we. I don't know if manage is the word. What are the mistakes that you're seeing women make when it comes to our head trash? When it comes to our inner critic? How do we overcome it in general and as it relates to this fear that we have of being perceived as a bitch?

[Megan Walrod]

Yeah, okay. I love this because I'm such a big fan of helping women learn how to different ways of working with the inner critic. Because one of the most common things, like, I love the term of head trash because that is what it is. And yet so many women make the mistake of saying, God, tell that bitch the inner critic to get lost. And like, we make the inner critic bad and wrong and. And we engage In a wrestling match with it. Stop being so mean. You're awful. You're an asshole. Like, shut up. So what does that do? It locks our energy in fighting a story that we're believing is true, but we're telling them it's wrong, and all of our energy just gets collapsed and contracted, and it's a waste of energy versus this. And there are a few different steps, but it starts with. And I've named. I've got, like, four different names of the inner critic because she's got different components. So one of them, for example, is the doubting Diva. So let's use her as an example. And if you don't have the names, it's okay, but you can just be like, hey, inner critic. Or like, hey, doubting diva. I see you. I see the story you're saying. What does that do? That immediately gets me out of a wrestling match and into observation. I'm now at choice with whether or not I buy that story. Second thing is, instead of, you're bad and wrong, but I secretly believe you're right, so I want you off my show instead. It's like recognizing this is my perspective on the inner critic. It's our conditioned mind. It's that young part of us who is trying to protect us. She's just doing what she think is. Thinks it's her job. She's over here being like, but we've been told we can't trust ourselves. And so I need to question your belief that you know what's right for you and need to tell you no. You have to listen to an outside authority. Otherwise you're going to be doomed and bad and wrong and rejected and all this thing. So when I turn to her with compassion, witnessing, I see you, babe. I know you're trying to protect me. I love you. I got this. That helps change the relationship, too. And then so many women stop there. I'm just gonna share one other thing with you that's so powerful in this practice. Most women spend the time there, but there's this whole hidden power over here. The hidden power beneath doubt is our intuition and our connection to our own knowing. So when we spend time being like God, the doubting diva is being really loud today. What are my practices for getting in touch with my intuition so I can really make a choice here that's rooted in what I know is true and correct for me, and that when we cultivate that intuition, oh, my God. The doubting diva starts to get quiet and doesn't become a thing because we're so rooted in that.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah. Everything you're saying aligns with everything I know to be true, both from personal experience, but mostly from my research and focus on confidence. You know, confidence is firm and bold. Trust and self. Head trash, or whatever we want to call it, is one of the biggest confidence derailers. It has us question ourselves. It has us speaking to ourselves in a way that we never would someone we love. And I often say that the antidote, the confidence builder that we can employ instead is giving ourselves grace. And I think the giving ourselves grace is important because as you said, the rest the wrestling match is what's not working. I like the way you said it. It's like I'm not going to believe this thing that I really believe, which is exactly what's happening. It's like we're trying to convince ourselves. I like the acknowledgment of calling it what it is. I think that's an important thing to name it whatever you want to call it so that it. You force yourself to distinguish it from the many other potential voices. Right. Like my intuition speaks all the time. But if I name that head trash, the. What did you call it? The dramatic diva.

[Megan Walrod]

The doubting diva is one of the inner critics. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

If I name it that, then in doing so, I distinguish it immediately from inner knowing or intuition or something like that. Calling it something, naming it, I think is really important. And then there's another step in there that you were talking about where it's. I always ask myself the question, is there another way to see it? Like, I'm not saying you're wrong. That's one way of seeing it. One way of seeing it is I'm a bitch. Is there another way to see it? Is there another more productive, more empowered way to see it? And enforcing myself to ask the question, I'm not wrestling or negating. I'm just like, is there another way? Is there a different angle? And it becomes a little bit more curiosity focused or playful or, you know, and I've found more often than not, there are a bazillion other ways to see it. And there is another version that feels just as true that leaves me in a much better position. What are your thoughts or reactions to? I just said a lot.

[Megan Walrod]

I love this so much. It reminds me of that story of how I walk into the dark room and I see a snake in the corner. Oh, no. Fear contraction. What am I going to do? It's going to come after me. That's our conditioned mind that both has all Those limiting stories of what a woman should be or shouldn't be. And it also is wired to protect us. It's wired to look for the potential threats. I turn on the light. Oh, it's just a hose curled up in the corner, right? And that, to me, gets at that question. So there's the am I being a bitch? It's a snake. Something bad and wrong is here. It's a threat. I've ruptured the relationship potentially. They're going to kick me out of the tribe. I'm going to be abandoned. Like domino effect versus the question, is there another way to see this? What's another way of seeing this? I've turned on the light and I'm looking at things differently. So it's absolutely empowering and it helps us. Like the neurosciences, the am I a bitch? The rightness of the doubting diva story, all of that. That's like a superhighway in our brain, in our literal gray matter. This question helps us start to pull out a machete and open up some new pathways of, oh, what if I wasn't being a bitch? What if I was actually advocating for myself? What if I'm actually doing the most empowering thing right here? Machete, machete, machete, machete. Opening up a new pathway. So it changes our brain science, which is super cool and also brings in that play that you're talking about. So, great question.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I'm gonna send us down potentially a rabbit hole, and it's my last big question, and I am struggling a little bit with how to word it, so I'm just gonna bleh. But basically, my perception is there are some people who are just bitches. There are people who are difficult. There are people who are, you know, or whatever we want to call them, at least from my perception. And I personally struggle with wanting to have a good amount of self awareness and wanting to also not care too much about other people's opinions. And, you know, I think I said in the intro is sort of like a when have we crossed the line? But maybe the question is more, how do we know where the line is for ourselves? Where do we decide that? Or, you know, sometimes it's. We can lie to ourselves and be like, oh, no, I was just being empowered. And it's like, no, you weren't. You were being a bitch.

[Megan Walrod]

You know, like, totally, totally.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Like, how do we. And I'm a bit of an overthinker. That is one of my default confidence derailers, which might be at play right now. But I'M just struggling with that. You know, I see some people and I'm like, you're being a real asshole. Are they missing self awareness or are they, you know, being bold and not caring about my opinion as they should?

[Podcast Host Nicole Kahlil]

Or like, do you see what I'm talking about?

[Megan Walrod]

Yeah, I totally get what you're talking about. Absolutely. And this is where practice and play are two of the most important things for us as women in exploring this. And what I'd invite in is the mindset shift of letting go, of thinking there's some line. Cause that can get the inner perfectionist involved. Of like, I've gotta get this generative bitch versus destructive bitch, right? And there's a really narrow line and something's right or wrong. I say, let's let her go see when she's at play. Love you very much, but I only need you when I'm editing. You know, like, we'll pull you out when it's time to editing and deploy your skills. Then in this case, it's really practicing and playing. Play with. Going over the line, so to say, play with. Even if you have like a trusted friend or, you know, a bestie or a partner who's supportive of this, like, do some role playing. Like, maybe you've got an important meeting or an interview coming up. Do some or a situation with an employee or employer that you often feel like, God, I just want to be a bitch and let them know everything I have to say. Like, I'm a big fan of journaling or role playing and using the voice. Say all the things. Say all the things you want to say. Feel what it feels like in your body. Cause I know in the beginning, when I first started to set boundaries and be really discerning about my time, I swung the pendulum really far. And I put a lot. Like, I created some ruptures with some people in my life where it was like I was not available anymore for the things they wanted me to be available for. I needed to swing it so far to find the middle ground. So permission to let your voice say all the things, permission to feel it in your body, explore it in safe places first in a journal with a friend in front of the mirror to then play with. So now how do I want to handle that with that person? And give yourself permission to mess it up. That's the thing too. Because as long as we're willing to clean it up with ourselves and the other person, that's the only way that ultimately we're going to have the authenticity, the intimacy that we Desire with ourselves, with other people. And I know that might not be what listeners want to hear. Like, they want kind of a formula of like, I can check it off. This is going to require getting out of the overthinking, which. Same, same. I can do that too, because we're used to living here and into the body that has so much to say. And there can be a while where it feels really messy. And there's so much of our power wrapped up in that though, too, and we're really willing to let it come out.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Megan, I love your answer. So many good things in there. Yes, there is that tendency, perfectionist overthinking. That's my one, two punch. So, like, not surprising that showed up. I love the getting it out, right? Whether it's journaling or writing what you want to say or whatever. I've found that to be so important is to get it out or a venting partner or whatever, and then giving yourself a little time and space to figure out what you really want to say purposefully. I think that is a phenomenal tip. The pendulum swing. I think we all think that there is some step by step magic middle that we just fall into. And the only way we find our middle is by playing with both sides, right? And so we are gonna push too far on occasions and as you said, clean it up with ourselves and the other person, apologize when needed, have ownership. So, so important in learning and in finding our own middle for ourselves. And the last thing is swinging the pendulum too far for sure. But also, I think, not enough sometimes, too. I think sometimes our fear of being perceived as a bitch has us holding ourselves back so much. And that doesn't feel good in our body either. Our body communicates just as much on that side of the pendulum as it does on the other side of the. Any last thoughts on how, you know, if maybe you're not swinging hard enough?

[Megan Walrod]

Yes, yes, absolutely. And I'm just reminded of this may get really personal fast, yet it also feels really relatable. My mom had rheumatoid arthritis and she was someone who had the conditioning and the training to be the good girl and the martyr. And there were a lot of things I know that she never expressed with her voice, with her emotions that she was taught. Stuff it, stifle it. And they found 80% of autoimmune diseases are women. And they found a connection with that and emotional suppression and repression. So there's that connection there between if one of the common things women can do is a situation unfolds and Afterwards, they beat themselves up. I didn't say what I wanted to say. I wasn't willing to swing the pendulum. So they're like beating themselves up. And instead of, here's a practice, two practices I want to share. One practice is when you notice, like, bring this into your daily life. Where could I swing the pendulum a little bit more today? If you have a moment where you didn't swing it, instead of judging yourself, beating yourself up, be like, all right, I'm going to learn from this. If I was being my own best friend here, my own advocate, how do I want to do it differently next time? So this is part of that play and permission to explore. How can you be more purposeful the next time? So all those moments when you didn't swing the pendulum can now become kind of like that bolster, give you some courage of the next time I'm going to do it. And maybe you go into that situation telling a coach or your bestie, I'm going to say the thing I haven't said now to help you say the thing that you haven't said that's built up over a decade or two or three, the practice that I'm going to recommend that all you listeners do. Take yourself out in nature where you can have some privacy, or in the hallways in your home when no one's home, and take yourself on what I call a fuck you walk and move your body power walker style, and just be like you for saying nothing. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. And it can be the most simple, it can be the most personal things. Collective, national, international, cosmic, intergenerational trauma. The thing that the barista did or didn't do with your coffee order this morning, like, let it all out. Because what I found personally and with my clients is that when we take ourselves on these fucky walks, we let it all get said. We move it through our body. We stop suppressing, repressing, and we kind of exhaust that and find our way to our power and find our way to this grace, you used that word earlier. And this place that is genuine gratitude for, oh, my God, I'm so grateful that I learned the fucky walk. Oh, my God, I'm so grateful that I learned this. And when we can mix the gratitude with that potency, we can show up to those hard conversations with more embodiment, confidence and generative bitch.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So glad we had this conversation. I could ask you 1 million more questions. But I want to make sure our listeners first go and get this book. It's always been me Megan wrote this beautiful book where the hero is her own damn self and I'm here for all of it. Megan's website is MeganWellRod.com we're gon put all of the links and all the ways to find and follow Megan in show notes. Megan, thank you for an incredible conversation.

[Megan Walrod]

Nicole, my total pleasure. Thank you for this and oh such a joy to be in this conversation with you.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, for me too.

[Podcast Host Nicole Kahlil]

And let me end with this. Here is where I land if standing up for yourself makes you a bitch, if setting boundaries makes you a if not tolerating someone's bad behavior and doing it with confidence, clarity and maybe just a touch of sarcasm makes you a bitch bitch, then let's be bitches. Because being honest, direct and self respecting, that's not bad behavior. That's integrity. It's confidence.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

It's power.

[Podcast Host Nicole Kahlil]

And around here we know that if somebody calls you a bitch, it might just be because you're out there on your fuck you walk. And it's definitely because you're out there doing woman's work.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hey JJ Virgin here on my podcast well beyond 40, we ditch the idea of aging gracefully and go all in on aging powerfully. Every week I host powerful experts who can give you powerful insights on building muscle, boosting your energy and feeling amazing. No matter what your age. This is your one life. And trust me, being smarter and and stronger are superpowers that can turn lifespan into strength span. Listen to well beyond 40 wherever you get your podcasts. Hi listeners, it's Jack Bishop. I'm the ingredients guy on America's Test Kitchen's public television show and the host of our award winning podcast. Proof. Proof combines history, science and culture to tell unexpected stories. Stories about food. Every episode is filled with aha moments that you'll want to share at your next dinner party. New episodes drop every Thursday. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and you might never look at food the same way again.