← This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
Burnout 2.0: BurnBOLD with Cait Donovan | 331
00:37:22
Cait Donovan decodes why coffee and affirmations aren’t enough—and shows you how to rebuild emotional resilience and long‑term vitality. High performers, this one’s your no‑BS toolkit to ditch the ember life and reclaim your fire (the good kind).
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- [00:01]
Nicole Khalil
Close your eyes. Exhale.
- [00:03]
Kate Donovan
Feel your body relax and let go.
- [00:05]
Nicole Khalil
Of whatever you're carrying today.
- [00:08]
Kate Donovan
Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.
- [00:25]
Nicole Khalil
Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.
- [00:30]
Kate Donovan
Abercrombie Kids is bringing the ultimate first day energy back to school. It all starts with on trend outfits for that front door photo shoot. Plus the coolest tees, shorts and jeans to take them through the rest of the year. Get them ready for their close up and keep them comfy too.
- [00:48]
Nicole Khalil
Make this grade their best one yet.
- [00:50]
Kate Donovan
Shop all things back to school in.
- [00:53]
Nicole Khalil
Store, online and in the app.
- [01:10]
Kate Donovan
I am Nicole Khalil, and on this episode of this is Woman's Work. We're going to talk about burnout again. Because unfortunately, it's not going anywhere. It's not a season we're passing through or a buzzword that's on its way out. It's here. And. And it's very, very real. And if we keep pretending that burnout can be fixed with a bubble bath and a gratitude journal, we're going to keep going up in flames. It's time for us to understand burnout on a deeper level, biologically, holistically and honestly. Because there is a big difference between being on fire and being burnt out. Beyonce. She's on fire. Burnout feels more like scorched earth, pile of ash smoldering in silence kind of thing, right? But what if we didn't just burn out? What if we learned to burn bold? What if instead of collapsing under the weight of stress and pressure, we looked at the web of causation and actually used our biology, our brains and our boundaries to create something better? It's a revolutionary idea, right? Except, you know, it shouldn't be, because I'm not just talking theory here. I'm. I know burnout on a first name basis. And I'm sure you've met that crazy bitch, too. Three years ago, when I first had today's guest on the show, I was mid book launch, sprinting on fumes and so far past the line, I couldn't even see the line anymore. I wasn't just a little tired or feeling stretched or even exhausted. I was toast, burnt to the crisp. And Kate Donovan showed up and said all of the things that I needed to hear and very few of the things that I wanted to. Which is exactly why I love her, because telling it like it is, with some care and humor is my love language. So she's back today as one of the very few repeat guests we've had on the show. And I promise you this, she's even more insightful, more informed, and still just as lovingly direct as she was before. Kate blends biobehavioral sciences and Chinese medicine in a way that makes you rethink everything you thought you knew about burnout. She's the host of Fried the Burnout podcast, an incredible keynote speaker. Seriously, book her for your next event. And the author of the Bounce Back Ability Factor. And she's been helping high performers get honest with themselves for years. So whether you're on the verge of burnout, deep in the ashes, or just tired of pretending that coffee and affirmations are enough to solve this, then this episode is for you, really, it's for all of us. So, Kate, my friend, thank you for joining us to talk about burnout again. And when I reached out to you, I said, you know, I know you've learned a lot and grown and evolved a lot. And so my first question is, what is different and maybe not about burnout, but your understanding of burnout today than almost three years ago when you were first on the show?
- [04:09]
Nicole Khalil
So I was in the beginning of another degree when we did that episode.
- [04:15]
Kate Donovan
That's right.
- [04:16]
Nicole Khalil
Maybe. Maybe about halfway through.
- [04:17]
Kate Donovan
Yeah.
- [04:18]
Nicole Khalil
So I still had another year to go and the degree was in biobehavioral health and I already had a master's degree and I had gone backwards to get a bachelor's long story. And within that space, going back to school as like a full blown 40 year old woman was really helpful because at first I had to go through the oh my God, I haven't dealt with burnout in this part of my life yet idea, which I. We can get to in a moment. So I, I went right back into perfectionism as a student needing to get straight A's. So it was a really good way for me to understand that you can like, do burnout.
- [04:53]
Kate Donovan
Right?
- [04:53]
Nicole Khalil
Like, you can really deal with it as your life exists, but when your life changes, you kind of have to like, do it again, which was a huge learning. Like, all the lessons did not automatically transfer. So that was a really big thing. And then the more that I looked into it in the Bounce Back Ability factor, I do talk about trauma as a major Sort of under factor of burnout. But the thing that hit me the most during school was this idea of a web of causation. And when I started to dive into it and I started to pull together all of the different things that people had told me over the years that contributed to their burnout, that made them vulnerable to burnout, I just kept pulling them out of the ether and from podcast guests and from. I mean, I did. Before I started my burnout work, in my burnout book, I had done 30,000 acupuncture treatments worldwide. I have spoken to a lot of people who were in pain and suffering and uncomfortable in various ways in their lives. And I just kept pulling the information out and pulling the information out. And then I started to notice that I was getting really annoyed every time I saw something on LinkedIn or on Instagram, which is, I only really live in those two places. I don't really go a lot of other places on the interwebs. And I kept seeing these posts that are like, burnout is because you're not aligned. Like, period. And I was like, wait. Like, whoa, that is a really big statement for a really big problem. And I was like, that can't be true, can it? And then it was like, burnout is because of trauma. And I was like, well, there are protective factors during childhood trauma, too, so is that really true? And then you say, like, burnout is from overwork. They're working us too hard. And I'm like, well, here's the truth. All of those things are true together. And they are not the only three things that are true. There are hundreds of things that are true. Burnout is death by a thousand cuts and all of the things that happen over the course of your lifetime and intergener. Intergener generationally. I can speak. I promise.
- [07:08]
Kate Donovan
I have those days, too.
- [07:10]
Nicole Khalil
Right? And all the things that are happening in. In our culture and the things that are happening in your workplace and the things that are happening in your family, and the things. All of the things matter. But then I thought, well, that's real overwhelming. How do we use this information that people need to understand so that they are not driven toward a solution that's not going to actually solve the bigger problem and at the same time bring them a sense of relief? Like, how do I give them all this information and have that information be something that they can sort of sink into and be like, oh, I get it. Instead of like, oh, my God, now I have to fix the world? So that's what I spent the last three Years doing okay.
- [07:59]
Kate Donovan
And I want to talk about the web of causation and all the things that we need to know and understand. But before I do, I want to point out two things. First, I'm so glad that you said that. When our lives change, basically what I interpreted is what we think we know about burnout or what we think we know about our experience or how to prevent or protect it kind of goes by the wayside, and we're left with this whole new learning opportunity and situation. And in that I found in my work on confidence, we tend to default to certain things. So for me, I default to perfectionism and overthinking. So it is no surprise that no matter what I'm doing, when I do something new or try something different or I'm not paying attention, that perfectionism and overthinking are big contributors to my experience of burnout. So let me just pause there. Any thoughts or reactions to this idea of that? We have defaults that show up.
- [09:03]
Nicole Khalil
Yeah. So the coping mechanisms that we create. Right. These defaults that you're talking, they're all coping mechanisms. Right. The coping mechanisms we create, we use and we continue to use throughout our lives because they're useful.
- [09:13]
Kate Donovan
Right.
- [09:13]
Nicole Khalil
If they didn't work on some level, we wouldn't use them.
- [09:16]
Kate Donovan
Yeah. That's what. We're not idiots.
- [09:18]
Nicole Khalil
Right.
- [09:19]
Kate Donovan
Like, it does. You know, perfectionism works. It worked for me. It supported me in my career and in certain things. And it's a strange. Yeah. Too far.
- [09:30]
Nicole Khalil
Yeah. It got you recognition, it got you advancements. It got. I mean, it got me almost a full scholarship to Boston University.
- [09:35]
Kate Donovan
Right.
- [09:35]
Nicole Khalil
That works.
- [09:36]
Kate Donovan
Yeah. Yes. Okay. And then the second thing that I noticed when you were talking is that we have the same pet peeve, is when somebody takes a really important word or concept and oversimplifies it and, like, makes it this one size fits all solution. It drives me fucking bonkers because it isn't that simple. It's not that easy. And then it makes me feel like there's something wrong with me or like I'm an idiot because I'm experiencing this thing that apparently has such an easy, direct selection solution. Any reactions there?
- [10:07]
Nicole Khalil
All day? How much time do we have? I mean, this is. There's nothing that irritates me more because, you know, you mentioned that my background is Chinese medicine, and Chinese medicine thinks about everything holistically. And so I don't understand how we can talk about things so simplistically and totally disregard privilege and circumstance and socioeconomic status and accessibility and, like, all of the isms. And, like, I mean, just shut up.
- [10:39]
Kate Donovan
Right?
- [10:40]
Nicole Khalil
Shut up. I read a post just last week that burnout was only about alignment. And if you. It's the thing that's irrit. Most irritating about it is it's not untrue.
- [10:50]
Kate Donovan
Right.
- [10:53]
Nicole Khalil
And it's incomplete at the same time. So if you understand it really, really deeply, you can say that understanding all the layers that are underneath the thing that you're saying. But if you don't understand it really deeply, you are skipping over those things, and you're not able to give the people that you're saying those things to the tools that they need. Like the. The questions that come up when I read this post, and she's like, well, if you're not aligned, then you're going to burn out. But if you're aligned, then everything feels good. First of all, no, Tina. Like, no. Like, I have such a good life, and not every day feels good.
- [11:31]
Kate Donovan
Right?
- [11:31]
Nicole Khalil
Because I'm human and sometimes I have diarrhea. Like, what are you talking about? That's not a lack of alignment. It's some crappy Mexican food that I had last night. Like, get over it. And when I have. If I had crappy food yesterday that led to diarrhea today, my emotional regulation is not going to be on point today, and that's going to set me off. And now we're just talking about one small aspect of one small thing. I'm not going to be in alignment that day, because alignment, for me, that day is laying down.
- [12:00]
Kate Donovan
Mm.
- [12:00]
Nicole Khalil
And the chances that I'm gonna take a full day to lay down and drink electrolytes because I had diarrhea in the morning are slim to none. So when I read a post like that, I'm thinking about automatically. Okay, but do you understand why someone is out of alignment and why someone might think they're in alignment when they're not? And why someone might be working in their passion and still be out of alignment. And why that alignment requires wholeness and integrity and boundaries and not just liking the thing you like and doing it right.
- [12:33]
Kate Donovan
Okay, so let's talk about this web of causation. All the different things. The sort of more holistic way of looking at burnout. What should we be thinking about? What should we be considering? What matters.
- [12:46]
Nicole Khalil
Yeah. So there's six buckets. The first one is workplace. That one has been studied to hell and back. They keep coming up with the same six factors. You can find them anywhere on the Internet. Like that. That's. That's been Done. It's been done over and over. Everyone that talks about burnout talks about the same things. We all use the same three researchers that do that same work. So the workplace is a bucket. Values, alignments and good managers and, and proper workload, all of those things have an ultimate effect on your burnout vulnerability. I want people to pay attention to the fact that I'm not saying causing your burnout burnout. I'm not saying burnout causes causes. I'm saying that these things accumulate to increase your overall vulnerability. So if I gave you a list of all six buckets and all the things and you checked off a majority of them, well, you're pretty vulnerable to burnout. But you still might not burn out because there's a whole list of opposing factors. We call these BPFs. It's like SPF, but for burnout. There's all these buckets of burnout protection factors, too. So if you're crossing out everything on both pages, you might be okay. But if you're crossing out everything on the risk factor page and not too much on the protective factor page, the mismatch of things is going to be what takes you under, right? So one bucket is workplace, another bucket is culture. This is all the isms, all the, the value. Like, you know, the Americans, especially in this particular country that we both live in, two of our top ten values are hard work and individualism. Like, it's supposed to be hard and you're supposed to do it by yourself. Like, that's not real helpful on the way to burnout. So cool. But. And that's baked in. You're not going to change that. You can change whether or not you engage with it. But if you did it for 40 years without noticing, like, that's not your fault, right? Another bucket is family. So your family of origin and your current family, your family of origin will bring up all sorts of different types of adverse childhood experiences. Maybe parentification, where you had to take care of a parent because they were an addict or sick or whatever, intergenerational trauma. So things that your grandmother went through that you don't even know about that adjusted your genetics and how you respond to stress, again, these are things that the epigenetic change. You can shift with meditation. But a lot of these things you're going to be unaware of, right? You're not going to know whether or not they're true. Like some, some things you'll know because you lived in your life as a child. But so you have this family bucket that's all of the things that you lived through before and all of the things that you're living through now. Did you enter your household and take on the role of caregiver and martyr? If you did repeat that pattern from your previous household, you're going to be more vulnerable to burnout today. So there are some things you can affect, some things you can't. So we have the work bucket, we have the culture bucket, we have the family bucket. The next bucket is personality traits, self. So these have also been really highly studied. And this is where we get into all the coping mechanisms that are really, really useful a lot of the times and throw us over the bridge. The other, you know, part, and that's perfectionism and people pleasing and lack of boundaries and inability to ask for help and hyper independence. And, and, and this is the bucket that most coaches work on, right? Which makes sense because this is the bucket where we can affect the most change. So that wasn't a diss when I said that that's where most people work. We work there because that's where we have the most influence. And when we work there, this is the good part of the web of causation. When you work in one of the buckets, it affects the other buckets too, so you don't have to do all the work. So we have workplace culture, family, self. Then we have health, which I put in a separate category from self because a lot of times we're talking about health things that you didn't cause. So mental health disorders, neurodiversities, chronic health illnesses, you know, any, any of those things that make it so that the world of work wasn't exactly designed for you to succeed, going to make you more vulnerable to burnout. The last bucket is environment. And this is someone that not too many people talk about. But how much access to green space and, or blue and. Or desert, I don't care. Nature. Green space means nature, not necessarily green, even though green are green and blue have been shown to have really high effects. But access and use of green space. So if you have access to green space but you're not using it, burnout risk factor. Whether or not you sit in an office that has fluorescent lighting all day, whether or not you like the art on your walls and the color of paint in your home, and if your pans stick and if you love the mug that you drink coffee out of, and if you have the best, like most comfortable blankets on your couch, and if the lighting is right, and if you shut off your light at night before bed and all of those environmental things, folks, beauty matters.
- [17:49]
Kate Donovan
On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat, or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
- [18:18]
Nicole Khalil
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- [18:54]
Kate Donovan
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- [19:10]
Nicole Khalil
Fast, fast. Free delivery. It's on Prime.
- [19:18]
Kate Donovan
Yeah. And that it's beautiful to you. I think sometimes we think a lot about what's beautiful to other people. Like if somebody comes to my house versus how you're experiencing it, living in it day in, day out.
- [19:30]
Nicole Khalil
Yes.
- [19:31]
Kate Donovan
You said this earlier and I just want to reiterate it for for understanding. You said that these six things do not cause burnout, they increase your vulnerability to it. And it's about whether or not you have these balance of these BPFs that might contribute to how you're actually feeling or experiencing burnout in any given moment. So saying it another way, we hear things like, you know, if you're overworked, you're going to experience burn burnout. Well, everybody has a different definition of overwork and some people actually really love and enjoy their work and might actually feel filled up with the exact same level of work as another person might feel overwhelmed by. Exactly so important, I think to make the distinction that most things are increasing or decreasing your vulnerability to burnout, not necessarily causing it or not causing it directly. Am I understanding that right that is exactly correct.
- [20:29]
Nicole Khalil
Like someone in the. In our Facebook group for the podcast, somebody wrote recently, like, I'm burnt out because of my boss. And I was like, you're not your boss Contributed to your burnout, made you more vulnerable to burnout. And all of the cultural and familial and personal persuasions that made it so that you chose to stay in a job where a boss was abusing you in some way, shape or form also contributed to your burnout, which doesn't make it your fault, because you don't know that those things are happening. Right. Like, you don't know. You. You get taught that loyalty matters. You get taught that sticking through, like, sticking to things matters, not quitting matters. You get taught. You get taught all of these lessons, and you take them as rules, and then you carry them with you, which is just human. But it's not just your boss. If you have a really, really terrible boss and you are not looking for an out at your job, that's a problem.
- [21:28]
Kate Donovan
Yeah.
- [21:28]
Nicole Khalil
So we have to explore why you're not looking for an out.
- [21:31]
Kate Donovan
You're, again, speaking directly to a personal experience. I stayed in a job for at least years, if not potentially a decade too long, because the pattern felt unconsciously familiar to me in that I wasn't getting what I wanted. I wasn't getting my needs met. I was constantly having to prove. But my pattern of growing up was seeing my parents stay committed. And commitment was valued at the highest level. It's still one of my core values, but they were committed to a relationship that didn't work for either of them. And I just kind of thought that's what you did. You stayed committed even though the relationship wasn't working for either person. I did that in dating. I did it in work. And I appreciate you said it several times. It's not your fault.
- [22:22]
Nicole Khalil
Fault.
- [22:22]
Kate Donovan
So the point being, I think, not to blame ourselves or beat ourselves up or kick ourselves when our d. When we're down. It's more of an observational thing. And then determining what to do from there is that.
- [22:36]
Nicole Khalil
That's exactly it. And this is where we came to over time. This is where I came to with the web of causation and how it should bring people relief is that gathering all this information should allow you to look and say, there's no way burnout is my fault. When you look at all of those things and take into consideration all of these different factors that had to lay on top of one another to create this overall vulnerability, you didn't have control over like 85% of them. You can have control over probably 50 or 60% of those, but you didn't know you could have control over them before.
- [23:17]
Kate Donovan
That's not your fault. Right.
- [23:20]
Nicole Khalil
And so this, to me, is the relief. This is where, like, the main goal when we started Fried the Burnout podcast was to eliminate shame, blame, guilt, and judgment. And we said that in a. In one that sort of. It came, became one word, almost shame, blame, guilt, and judgment. And the. The. The web of causation should do the.
- [23:37]
Kate Donovan
Same and I think create an opportunity where we can then make decisions and choices for from there.
- [23:46]
Nicole Khalil
So first we look at the BPF list and we think, oh, my God, I actually did have a secure attachment with my parent. Like, yay, me. I've got that one. I don't have to work at that. I don't have to go to therapy for it. I don't have to that. That one is done. Or I had one person in my childhood that showed up for me so hard that it counteracts. So there's really clear research around adverse childhood react, adverse childhood experiences and positive childhood experiences. And positive childhood experiences buffer the effects of trauma of adverse childhood experiences. And one of the most intense and important positive childhood experiences is having one person that you know has always got your back. It might be a grandmother, it might be a neighbor, it might be a teacher. It might be. And we all know this story. This kid that came from nothing, that had every problem in the world, parents that weren't around, et cetera, et cetera, this teacher or this grandmother that believed in them and held them and showed them the way, and they are uber successful. It can buffer so much more than we realize to have some of these good things in place. So before you start deciding what you're gonna do, you look over the last list of BPFs and you start, like, highlighting the things that you've already got. I go to bed at a regular time. I had a really cool grandmother. I have this support in this area. My family is a really good network for me. I love my community. I have this, I have that, I have this. So let's first look at all the things you have without working, without changing, without fixing, without shifting, and take a moment to understand that you have them. And then you go in and you have a choice. You either choose the easiest BPF to up, the one that seems super simple to you, or you look at the BPFs and you decide which one of these can I influence the fastest that will make the biggest difference in My world. And then you just go through the list like that. But the thing about a web is that if you look at a spider's web, if you pull on one part of it, the whole thing moves. You are never going to have to go through every single section, because if you focus on one or two or three things over the course of a year, a lot of the other things will move without you working. They will shift without you even realizing that they're happening. So you pick the things that are easy and accessible, implementable, actionable. You don't pick the hardest thing on the list. You pick the easiest thing on the list, and you start from there.
- [26:15]
Kate Donovan
Again, I felt relief when you were saying this wasn't my fault, that burnout isn't our fault. And as you were going through that, I did, I felt a sense of relief. But even more so now, this idea of focusing on what already exists and. And starting with what's easy and accessible. Because, I mean, fuck, if we're already burnt out, like, doing something big and hard, daunting, it's like, oh, God, I can't handle one more thing, right? So starting with what's easy and accessible and understanding that these things are all interlinked. I loved the visual of the web and that, you know, when we work on, or maybe not even work on, but when we acknowledge one, play with one, shift around with one, that it can impact all the others. Yeah. Super inspiring. Okay. I know part of your work is in the biology of it all. I've heard you say that there is a big missing piece to nearly every conversation that's happening as it relates to burnout out there today. Did we cover that, or is it something that I haven't asked you about?
- [27:24]
Nicole Khalil
No, I think the big missing piece is the fact that there is biology related to it. Like, everyone, it seems, man, maybe it's not everyone. Maybe there's conversations that I'm missing. Quite often the conversations are about burnout are put into the mental health category. But when you're burnt out, your gut bacteria is in bad proportions. So you have more bad gut bacteria and less good gut bacteria. Your brain has shrunk in various areas because of chronic stress. Your muscles have atrophied, which is why you feel so fatigued when you're exercising. You know, like, and that's just the beginning. You are more higher at higher risk for diabetes, stroke, heart attack, heart disease, and more because of. And cancer because of burnout. So if we keep talking about burnout like a mental health problem, which I. Mental Health issues are important and serious, so I'm not trying to diminish them. And burnout affects every single part of your life. It is a whole health disease. And if we keep thinking about it as a mental health issue, we keep telling employees and people that are experiencing it to change their minds, to shift their mindset. Well, you can shift your mindset all day, but if you're. The front of your brain has shrunk, that's not going to change the shape of your brain.
- [28:43]
Kate Donovan
Right.
- [28:43]
Nicole Khalil
So I think we need to really take that into consideration. Always when we're having this conversation.
- [28:50]
Kate Donovan
Yeah. I mean, I again, feel another sense of relief because that is actually how I experience it when I'm in it. It doesn't feel like it's just happening in my head. It is a whole body experience. Like, when I think back to when we first recorded our first episode together, it was during book launch. And I have never experienced burnout like that. I got to a point where I hit a wall and I said, cancel everything. And I took every possible thing I could off of my calendar for three months. And. And I wasn't sure I was ever coming back. Like. And it was, yes, fatigue, sick to my stomach, didn't have any interest, let alone motivation. I mean, it was just. It is a full body thing. And. And I think, as you said, neither one, one of us would ever dismiss mental health. And I think sometimes when we put it in the mental health category, we unconsciously end up dismissing it, which is a whole different problem.
- [29:56]
Nicole Khalil
So, yes, we're not going to solve all the problems of the world today here, folks. We'll try.
- [30:03]
Kate Donovan
Well, Kate, you blasted my mind the first time we talked. It was very uncomfortable, but you did blast my mind. And this is again, one of my favorite episodes in all of the six years I've been doing this. I know. I will listen to it multiple times. Kate, is there a way. You've mentioned all the different factors. Is there a way we can, like, look at these on your website or go through and say, yes, I have this. No, I don't have that. How does that work?
- [30:31]
Nicole Khalil
So there's a. I think a freebie that we sent over the link to your podcast people, so it'll be in the show notes, but it's kate donovan.comfreebie-web and it will bring you through when I want people to understand that it is actually nearly impossible to write every single thing that fits under every single bucket because this document would have to be 900 pages long. So understand that each Bucket is an umbrella. And if the thing that's exactly what you're experiencing isn't written, feel free to jot it in and understand that. I understand that there's space for lots of different experiences and lots of different people and lives and all of the things. This is supposed to be a guide, but there are two fulls. There's lots of sheets in this worksheet, but one of them is here's the main BRFs in these six categories. The next one are here, the main BPFs in these six categories. And it allows you to just sort of work through and say, okay, here's the things I've got going for me. Here's the things that might need some adjusting. Which of these things that need some adjusting I can influence the easiest? Do I want to up my BPFs before I look at my BRFs? Maybe sometimes it's much easier to do the protection factors than it is the risk factors. Go for it. You will buffer yourself into a better place. So there's no perfect way to do it. It is left open for you to decide. You do have to understand that there are some things on the list that you cannot influence or change. Your only influence over your boss is leaving. Right. You're not going to change the way your boss functions. Like, you're going to have to. You have to be really honest with yourself about what expectation you have when you're taking something on. And the things you can't change, they just become a knowledge bucket. Like, here's things that make me vulnerable to burnout that I don't have influence over. So what else is in these other buckets that I do have influence over so I can increase my overall BPF and keep myself safer. Last thing I'll say is, understand that the amount of BPF's you need is has nothing to do with any level of morality. Like, I'm the Irishest Irish girl from Boston and my SPF factor when I'm outside in the summer has got to be 50 plus because I will fry like a lobster. That's just the way it is. It says nothing about me as a person. It says nothing about my value. It's not a moral judgment. The number of BPFs you need is also not a moral judgment.
- [33:05]
Kate Donovan
Okay, I'm so glad you said that. I know. I'm running to your website again. We'll put the link in, show notes and let me give a quick plug. Also for Fried the Burnout podcast, Kate's podcast, an incredible resource if you want to continue to hear more of Kate, which I know we all do. And, you know, get some support on your burnout journey. Kate, thank you so much.
- [33:26]
Nicole Khalil
Nicole, I adore you. Thank you so much.
- [33:28]
Kate Donovan
Same. Okay, friend. Let me remind you that burnout does not just show up overnight. I know we know this. And yet we still continue to buckle under the weight of the expectations we place on ourselves, the roles we feel obligated to play. And that I'll rest when it's done. Lies that we keep telling ourselves. But here's the truth, and we know this, too. It's never all done. And pushing through isn't strength. It's survival. What Kate reminded me, and hopefully reminded you too, today, is that we can do more than just white knuckle our way through. We can understand burnout so that we can actually do something about it. Start with looking at what you already have. Start with what's easy and accessible. You can use your biology, your boundaries, and that beautiful, badass brain of yours to build a life that doesn't drain the life out of you. You deserve to feel lit up, not lit on fire. More moments of joy, less burning out so badly. You're basically a human smoke signal. Burn bold, my friend, because that is woman's.