← This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
Digital Decluttering: How to Make Tech Your Assistant, Not Your Adversary with Amanda Jefferson | 312
00:34:16
Amanda Jefferson shares how to declutter your digital world and train your tech to act like a helpful assistant—so you can focus on the work that really matters.
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- [00:01]
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- [01:11]
Nicole Kahlil
I'm Nicole Kahlil and if you've been listening to this Is Woman's Work for a while, you know that cheese and coffee are my love. Languages and one size fits all solutions and technology are not. When it comes to tech in my business, I seem to have a magical talent for blowing things up. With just a few clicks I think I'm making a simple small tweak. And yet somehow the shit hits the fan and my team is emailing me in all caps. Not slacking mind you, because again, tech is not my friend and email is about all I can handle. Or somehow my podcast RSS feed disappears or Square has invoiced a client in pesos. I don't know how I do it. So I've just landed on the belief that technology hates me and it's not just about how to use tech that is the problem though. Again, my team would very much like me to stop touching things. It's about which tech to use. There are apps for everything. Apps to schedule, apps to sell, apps to track, to communicate, to automate, to remind, to make coffee. Probably. I don't know about that app, but if it exists, please let me know. Anyway, figuring out what tech will actually work for me and my business friend. At times that has felt like my full time job. Which is tragic because I absolutely suck at it. I often wish there was some magical tech guru who is up to speed on all the apps, all the platforms and all the payment processing systems, all the equipment, all the things that could just show up and tell me what I should be using. Set it all up for me, teach My team, whatever it is they need to know and slap little don't touch that stickies on every button that I should not be messing with. I would pay $1 million for that. Okay, maybe not that much, but a lot. But of course, when you're just getting started, you're lucky if you even have $100 to invest. So we end up cobbling it together with Google searches, duct tape and late night rage, scrolling through comparison blogs, and before you know it, your digital world looks like a cluttered mess of apps, tools and platforms you don't even remember downloading or paying for. But what if, and I mean, what if our tech could actually work for us? Like a free assistant that never takes a sick day, doesn't require one on ones, and doesn't send messages in all caps. What if there's a way to leverage technology without ending up as the digital equivalent of a hoarder? That's where today's guest comes in. Amanda Jefferson is a tech and productivity coach, TEDx speaker, one of the world's first Konmari consultants, and host of the top rated Good Enough Ish podcast. She has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Real Simple, Harper's Bazaar, and more, and was recently named a Top 50 Women speaker of 2024. Amanda helps busy women train their tech to work for them, not against them. Reducing the mental load and adding hours back in their days. And I could not be more excited. So, Amanda, welcome and please help. Can we start with where to start? Like if you're aware that you need a tool for your business or your life, any tips on how to it without again accumulating to the clutter of all the apps that we're using?
- [04:27]
Amanda Jefferson
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thanks so much for having me. That was an amazing introduction. I was having a hard time not cracking up in the middle of it. You know, when I think about our digital clutter, I usually think in sort of the big four. So the big four is emails, files, passwords and photos. And then there's sort of the fifth, which is just how to use our tech. You know, like just we get handed these thousand dollar machines and these beautiful white box with no user manual, no instructions. And it's just like good luck. It's intuitive, you'll figure it out. Right. So usually what I say to people is start where you're having the most pain. So think about it. Is it emails, is it passwords, is it files, is it photos? Is just figuring out and then start there. Right? So I have, you know, obviously a Million tips and tools that I can share for each of those different sections. But that's usually what I recommend is just figure out where you're going to start. So I'm curious for you, like which of those top four or that fifth one, which one rings the most stressful for you?
- [05:27]
Nicole Kahlil
I mean, let's be real, they all are stressful. But I would say probably emails and passwords top the list. Emailed from a quantity standpoint and knowing what to do with them. I kind of treat my emails like a weird to do list. So I have a very long inbox. And then passwords, it's just a function of remembering what, when and when they change and where you have the codes. Like it's just all of that.
- [05:55]
Amanda Jefferson
Yeah, yeah. So I, you know where I, like, I have a. Several clients that I work with. Most of the clients that I work with are small women. Are women, small business owners. And one of them, she says she has login issues. And I got to see her process of every time. She would try to log into the five sites that she accesses every day. Oh, that's not the password. Let me text my assistant. Okay. My assistant just got the code and this was what she was repeating all day long. So that was creating an enormous amount of friction. I think for a lot of us, it's. You have to invest a little, a lot in the front end to find a tool that works for you and then stay consistent with it. So, for example, for passwords, I recommend 1Password. Do you use a password manager at all or are they just kind of.
- [06:37]
Nicole Kahlil
Notes and yeah, we started using LastPass. Prior to that, it was exactly what you're talking about. And reaching out to 17 people trying to figure out who has what. I mean, we just had an issue a couple weeks ago where a QR code was going to the wrong place. And we realized somebody I had used three years ago who's no longer on the team had the, I mean, it was a mess. So that's, that's the kind of shit I create.
- [07:01]
Amanda Jefferson
Right, right. And especially when you're working with a team and everybody's trying to use the same password. So something like 1Password or LastPass is great. With my assistant, we have a whole vault that's shared between the two of us. So whenever I change a password, I'm very religious about making sure that I change it in there or she does the same. And it's very rare that I have password issues. So I think it may be that, you know, in the last pass, it's doing like a cleanup in there, just making sure that everything is right and. And all of that. So definitely recommend a password manager, but you have to kind of go through the suck to get to the. Because there is a learning cur, right, of figuring it out. And like Chrome wants to save your passwords and Apple wants to save your passwords and they're all fighting and it's very confusing. But if you can get to the other side of that, it can definitely be a huge time saver.
- [07:48]
Nicole Kahlil
Well, and let's be honest, it sucks anyway, right? Like, not having a system sucks. The pain of figuring out a system can suck, but at some point in time, at least on the other side of that, it stops sucking. So what about emails? And I'm not even gonna talk about my inbox. What about emails?
- [08:05]
Amanda Jefferson
So I'm a Gmail super. I'm an Apple super user and a Gmail super user. And I love Gmail email because it has this thing that you can do in your inbox that nobody knows about and it totally changes the game. So basically now when you go into your email, it's just kind of like a big blob. Like there's no distinction between what's important or what's not. And so you can actually change the inbox setting to something called priority inbox. And then it will magically create three and actually four sections where the top will be important and unread. And there's a function within Gmail where you can train it to know what's important and what's not. The second section will be starred, and I think of starred as like a bulletin board in your office. Like, oh, these are my theater tickets for this weekend. This is my flight confirmation. It's just like, I don't need to do anything with this, but I just want to be able to find it really easily. And then the next sort of default category that it creates is everything else, which is just like, here's the big blob that we don't necessarily think that you need to worry about, right? And then I have people create a third section in there which is your action needed category. So that's in your case, that's your little to do list, right? So as you're going through your email, you're adding things to the action needed so that every day we have this process. I think about it kind of like cleaning before you cook instead of just getting into your email and being like, okay, email number one, what are we going to do with this? Email number two, you Kind of go in, you do this sort of pre cooking process where you clean, get everything in the right section. This goes in starred, this goes in Action needed, this gets deleted, this gets archived and then you're just looking at your 10 action needed emails and then addressing those. So that's like my number one tip for email, especially if you have Gmail, is looking at Priority Inbox.
- [09:54]
Nicole Kahlil
Okay, well, I'm definitely checking out priority Inbox. A follow up question there is while you're doing your pre cooking routine. Right. Is that the time to forward anything that needs to be delegated? Like what do we do with the things that land in our inbox that are not meant for us to respond to that are better handled by somebody on your team?
- [10:16]
Amanda Jefferson
Yeah. So you could create a whole nother. It kind of depends on how your brain works. You could either forward as you go and just, you know, it's kind of like that trick where they say if it takes less than five minutes, just do it in the minute. So you could just forward as you go. You could. Or you could create a little label or a folder that's forward so that as you're processing, you can just drag and drop everything into there. And then when you get to the end, it's like, okay, here's the 10 emails that I need to forward. You just have to be careful with those labels and folders because they can become black holes where it's like, oh, right, I said I was going to forward these things last week and they're still in there. But exactly. That's a great point. Like just take that opportunity to just forward it. Right.
- [10:52]
Nicole Kahlil
Then what about the other two? Obviously emails and passwords are my shtick. Any tips for files and photos?
- [11:00]
Amanda Jefferson
Yes. So for files I definitely recommend finding first of all that everything's in the cloud. So. So that if you're. I can throw your laptop in the river and you'll be sad for five minutes, but then you feel confident that everything that you've had is saved in the cloud. So not on the desktop, not in the documents folder. And so for a lot of people it's first understanding like, well, kind of like, what is the cloud and where are my documents? So your documents might be on icloud, or they might be on OneDrive, or they might be in Dropbox, or they might be in Google Drive or they might not be in any of those things and you actually don't know. So first figuring out, based on your system, where things should live. I really like a more like agnostic tool Like Dropbox, where it doesn't matter if you have Windows or Apple or it just plays nice with everybody on the playground and just having really, really simple folders and naming conventions for the files so that you can easily find them. And then a lot of people don't know that how to use that sort of Quick Access or Favorites thing on the sidebar where you can drag and drop things that you use all the time. People are like going through layout layers and layers and layers of folders and files and trying to find things instead of pulling things out onto those files into the favorites.
- [12:19]
Nicole Kahlil
Okay. And photos are a bazillion photos.
- [12:23]
Amanda Jefferson
Yeah. So my favorite, and I haven't, I'm not an Android user, so I'm less well versed in that. But my favorite app for the iPhone is something called the Cleaner Kit app. And it's so great because you basically, you know, you just install it and then it will go into your photo library. It's kind of like, it lets you go wide before you go deep. So if you have 20,000 photos, you're not going to go like one by one by one by one, right? But it'll go in there and it'll say, okay, here's all the blurry photos. Can I delete those? Here's all the screenshots. Can I delete those? Here's all the duplicates. It'll even tell you similar photos. So like, if you took a picture of your kid in front of a tree and there's 15 of them, it'll be like, hey, we think this one is the best. The other thing that it will do, which is really nice, is that you can kind of go by month. So in, instead of staring at 15,000 photos, it'll be like, okay, January has 300 photos. And it's like, oh, I can handle that. And it has kind of like a Tinder thing to it where you can swipe left or right and say like, keep. No. Keep. No. Keep. No. And so that's just like I'm very much a fan of making anything bite size where it's like, I don't. I'm not going to deal with 18,000 photos, but I can deal with 300 photos in January. Right. And then so then when you go through and kind of get clear out all that junk, then you're left with so many less photos that you can actually look and see, like, oh, okay, like, which of these photos do I want to keep? And the other thing I say about photos too is like, what is your end game? Do you want like printable albums? Do you just want to be able to find a photo easily? Like, what it is that you're trying to achieve kind of dictates what you do to get there, if that makes sense.
- [14:11]
Susan Ettlinger
The PC gave us computing power at home, the Internet connected us, and mobile let us do it pretty much anywhere. Now generative AI lets us communicate with technology in our own language, using our own senses. But figuring it all out when you're living through it is a totally different story. Welcome to Leading the Shift, a new podcast for Microsoft Azure. I'm your host, Susan Ettlinger. In each episode, leaders will share what they're learning to help you navigate all this change with confidence. Please join us, listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
- [14:41]
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- [15:42]
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- [16:09]
Nicole Kahlil
I want to take this one step further and ask about some favorite tech tools for working women. The vast majority of our listeners are working women. Outside of the four, which are big ones that you just mentioned, are there any apps or tools that you're just raving fan of or that you know every working woman should know about?
- [16:30]
Amanda Jefferson
Yes, I think bookmarks, that is a number one. I think a lot of people really don't even know that exists. They don't even know that there is a bookmarks bar that is there. So they have 65 tabs open and they're not closing them because it's sort of like their little mental to do list. So definitely being a power user of the chromebookmark and just having a one stop shop for all of the things that you use daily and projects that you're working on. So like if you're planning a trip to Italy, you can have an Italy folder and have all of the websites related to that in there. You know, I host a live workshop every single month and so I have a folder for each one of those live workshops so that I have the checkout page and the sales page and everything that I need so that I'm not constantly looking for that. So that's a huge one that I don't think people use as much as they should. The other tool that I really encourage people to use is just like Siri. Like using Siri as your assistant. I have several lists in my reminders on my Apple, on my iPhone, that is Instagram ideas, email ideas, my shopping list so I can be driving along and say, you know, I don't want to say it right now, but hey Siri, you know, add bananas to the shopping list and it's going to do it. And not only is it going to do it, it's going to auto categorize it under the produce section. And it's a reminders list that's shared with my husband so that the next time he goes, yeah, she just added bananas to my shopping list.
- [18:05]
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- [18:07]
Amanda Jefferson
I do it all day long for remind me at 5 o' clock to so and so. Right. Or add this to the Instagram ideas list. So it's like this free assistant that you're just dictating stuff to. Right. So I think and it's something you can use easily on your Apple watch. So like just having Siri be this assistant that you're bossing around all day, I don't think people use it enough.
- [18:29]
Nicole Kahlil
Okay, so same Question. But maybe more for entrepreneurs or, you know, women in business. Are there any tools or tips or tricks that have been really helpful that you haven't already mentioned?
- [18:42]
Amanda Jefferson
I would say definitely a must have for someone in business is, you know, having a calendar scheduler. I have a lot of clients that are still sort of doing the old fashioned back and forth, like what about Tuesday at 1, what about Wednesday at 3? So using something like calendly or acuity I think is definitely a must have for business owners. I also really like to take my email a step further and I use a tool called Superhuman, which I do pay $40 a month for, but it's sort of email on steroids and it definitely makes my life a lot easier. So I really love that as well. And one of the tools that we love in my business is streak CRM. Have you ever heard of Streak CRM?
- [19:31]
Nicole Kahlil
I have not, no.
- [19:32]
Amanda Jefferson
So it's basically an add on to Gmail and it's a CRM inside of your Gmail so that you can track all of your different sort of pitches. So within that we have several different pipelines. We have, this is where we track my speaking pitches, my podcast pitches, press pitches, one on one leads. And it's really. I've tried a lot of different CRMs and this one is very visual how you can move people through the pipeline. And so my assistant and I do that together and that has been really a game changer.
- [20:06]
Nicole Kahlil
Well, I'll tell you too, on the receiving end of a lot of pitches, there is nothing more annoying than if somebody has no concept of who they pitched at. Like the amount of times where like we already responded to your pitch and it's, it wastes my team and I's time and it's, it's super frustrating. It's like, get your shit together, lady. Like put something in place. So that would be super helpful. I think on both sides. It, it'll help your credibility and perception for the person you're pitching to and for those of us that are doing a lot of pitching or a lot of outreach, being able to categorize it in a simple and easy way, it would be super helpful. So again, something I'm going to look into.
- [20:45]
Amanda Jefferson
Yeah, no, it's fantastic. And I think I have adhd. I was diagnosed about a year ago and like I said, I've tried lots of different CRMs, but for me having things be really visual is really key. And so, you know, for, I pitched your podcast and so it's like we moved through the whole process of, you know, pitched follow up one, follow up two, interested, scheduled, booked post, you know, and it just kind of tells you exactly what to do instead of having to reinvent the wheel. And it's great for speaking pitches and things like that. The other thing that I actually recommend a lot for executives that speak. Have you ever heard of Talk A dot?
- [21:25]
Nicole Kahlil
Yes.
- [21:26]
Amanda Jefferson
Yeah. So it's very cool. So you. It's basically a QR code at the end of your talk and people can in real time take their phones out, scan that QR code and answer some very, very brief questions about your talk, both with you. You know, was it relatable, was it valuable? And they can kind of one through five and then they can also share comments. And it's amazing because you step off of that stage and then you pick up your phone and you have 250 response, real time responses of how your talk went that you're. Because your event organizer is going to find out how your talk went two weeks later when they get all the surveys back. And it's probably going to be very high level. This is in the moment when people are touched and inspired and motivated. And then you have basically this report that you can share and then you also have sort of an aggregated report where somebody can get a sense of you as a speaker in general and the type of feedback that you get in general. So I love that as a tool for speakers.
- [22:26]
Nicole Kahlil
Amazing.
- [22:26]
Amanda Jefferson
Yeah.
- [22:27]
Nicole Kahlil
My next question is around a little bit of the process when we approach a new app or a new system or technology because I find, because I'm not confident in this space, I probably overthink over research, over compare and I'm like worrying. Like the best example I can give you is credit card processing platforms. The amount of time I spent researching all the different ones and blah, blah, blah. And mind you, I use it in the most simple, basic way and didn't need all the bells and whistles and I don't know the 5 cent difference between one platform and the other. I cost myself way more than that in the amount of time and energy I spent trying to figure it all out. Yeah. My question is when do we fall in the trap of overthinking or over processing and how do we prevent ourselves from doing that by looking at a few different options and just sort of deciding what's best for us at the time we're in.
- [23:30]
Amanda Jefferson
Right. What's good enough. Ish.
- [23:32]
Nicole Kahlil
Yes, exactly.
- [23:35]
Amanda Jefferson
Yeah. I mean, a lot of times I will outsource a lot of that research to my assistant so that's a really nice thing that if you have somebody else on your team to be like, okay, listen, you know, because for example, we just moved our, our community from. I have a club called the get it done Club. And we just moved it off of Facebook and onto. And we wanted to move it onto some other non Facebook community. So it was like Circle or Heartbeat or Mighty Networks. And so I just had her kind of do a lot of research and figure out the best option. And then you just kind of go all in on that. Yeah, just kind of doing a bare minimum effective dose of and then going all in. But I still get FOMO or Grass is Greener. Like for example, my checkout software is Thrive Cart. But then I hear all these people talking about Sam Card and it's really the best and but the switching costs of these things is enormous. So I usually find that, you know, as long as it's good enough ish, then I'm going to, you know, kind of stay there. But I think in my eight years of being an entrepreneur I've switched a lot of these big platforms like moved from Kajabi to thrivecarden. It's a big mental load to do those switches.
- [24:46]
Nicole Kahlil
Yeah, I find that too as I've gotten caught up in the idea that there is a significantly better option. And the amount of time we spend switching more often than not is more costly than whatever perceived benefit there are. We switched over from mailchimp over to flodesk for our emails and that has been a much better thing. And the transition period was really, really easy. Not that mailchimp was bad and flodesk is better. It was just what was better for us.
- [25:18]
Amanda Jefferson
Right.
- [25:19]
Nicole Kahlil
But back to the amount of time I spent making that decision wasn't worth it. So anyway, is your recommendation to have a few tools that you leverage at a higher level or several tools that you leverage, you know, just for what you need them for? Because as you were talking as an example, I use Google, but I'm probably only using it maybe 20% of its capacity. And then, you know, maybe I use another tool for something that Google actually can do or, you know. So what is your recommendation? That we get more familiar with a few tools or that we just specifically find tools for exactly what we need.
- [26:02]
Amanda Jefferson
I tend to err on the side of picking a tool that does a specific thing really well. So like a 1Password, for example, like they are experts at helping you share like manage your passwords versus yeah, iCloud keychain and Google Chrome has a password manager. But they're really, really bare bones. Right. So I. And because Google does 6,000 things, it's not going to do password management really well.
- [26:32]
State Farm Sponsor
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- [26:34]
Amanda Jefferson
So I do tend to err on the side of more tools that do things well, really specifically. But I do think there's a huge opportunity. Like the things that Google can do and the things that Apple can do. For example, like we're just scratching the 10% surface. Like in your Gmail, there's probably 10 different things that you could implement in there that would drastically improve your email that you just don't even know about. Or like Google Chrome bookmarks or things like that. Or people just not even really understanding things like, oh, what are my different Google profiles? And how do they interact with each other? So it's a little bit of both.
- [27:12]
Nicole Kahlil
Okay. You had mentioned earlier about using technology as sort of our free assistance. Right. Any other ways that we can be doing this outside of Siri and Alexa, you know?
- [27:28]
Amanda Jefferson
Mm. So I think email is such a great example of how you can do it. Like, I think of us a lot of times like we're goalies and like, you know, in a soccer game and the score is like a thousand to zero. Like, they're. The emails just keep coming and coming and coming, and we're just kind of standing there frozen, you know, watching all of the. The emails come in. And so, because basically it's like we've hired. If you think about Gmail, like this really smart, eager intern that's like, I can help, I can help. And it's like, I don't have time to train you. And you just let them keep coming in. Right. But like, little things, like those importance flags that you have in Gmail, that's an opportunity to tell Gmail, kind of do your future self a favor and say, this is important, this is not important. Things like setting up rules and filters so that, for example, like, say we were talking about, when you delegate, is there an email that always comes in that's never going to be for you, that you're always going to want to forward? Can you have a rule or filter set up so that it will automatically forward it, for example, or at the very minimum, put it in a folder that's called Delegate, and then, you know, to push it out? Right. So I think in our email alone, that's an enormous opportunity to train it and have it act like an assistant.
- [28:49]
Nicole Kahlil
Can you come do it for me?
- [28:51]
Amanda Jefferson
This is usually the part in the podcast interview there where they're like, and I'm going to Share my screen and let's just get started.
- [28:58]
Nicole Kahlil
Pretty much. Amanda, is there anything I didn't ask that I should have? When you think of, you know, being a busy, overwhelmed, working woman with, you know, a ton of shit on her plate and digital clutter and free assistance and tech tools, what didn't I ask that I should have known to?
- [29:19]
Amanda Jefferson
Well, I think the thing that I want people to know is that I have tons of resources available that teach people how to do all of these things. So I actually have a course that. That is how to make tech your free assistant. And it's my top 10 hacks, which are a lot of what we talked about today. And so if you go to my website, Indigo organizing.com, you'll see all of those there. And I even have a little course about Gmail and a little course about bookmarks and things like that. So I think, you know, it's really just about, like I said, making things bite size, figuring out what is your kind of the. The problem that's giving you the most friction, but really understanding that, like, yeah, some of the tools, like 1Password, they might have some investment in time. But like I said, literally we could sit here right now and spend 10 minutes in your Gmail and it would be like a miracle compared to what you're trying to deal with now. So I think people just understanding that there are little tricks that they can learn.
- [30:11]
Nicole Kahlil
Amazing. So we'll put Amanda's website in show notes, but again, it's Indigo organizing.com and also you can follow her on instagram @ hey, Amandaj. Amanda, thank you again. I do wish I could teleport you through my computer and help me with all of this stuff, but I love that you have these resources and mini courses to help us figure out how to, because it feels daunting and overwhelming, especially for somebody like me who's decided they're not very tech savvy. So having videos, having something you can watch and implement makes all of the difference in the world. So.
- [30:46]
Amanda Jefferson
And I'll just say, you know, I work with clients one on one. So I literally, you know, we work over Zoom and they share their screen and I have a remote control and we do get in there. So for some people that are out there that are like, yeah, I'm not watching a course about Gmail, just help me. That's an option too.
- [30:59]
Nicole Kahlil
Amazing. All right, well, thank you for the work you're doing and for being here today. My brain is spinning, but I have some action items, which feels good. Thank you.
- [31:11]
Amanda Jefferson
Amazing.
- [31:11]
Nicole Kahlil
All right, friend. The goal here isn't to become perfectly organized or to have a color coded digital life with 47 folders and 0 notifications. The goal is to make space for more ease, more clarity, and more time doing the work that actually matters. Because we didn't start our businesses or our jobs to become full time app testers or unpaid tech support, right? You have important work to do, the kind that changes lives. And that work deserves systems that support it, not slow it down. Your tech should be your assistant, not your adversary. Let your tech rise to meet you, not the other way around, because that is woman's work.