Podcast Summary: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil

Episode 341: High-Functioning Codependency: When Being “The Strong One” Is Slowly Killing You
Guest: Terri Cole, Licensed Psychotherapist & Author
Date: September 3, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Nicole Kalil welcomes psychotherapist and author Terri Cole to explore the concept of "high-functioning codependency." The conversation dives deep into the hidden challenges faced by women who are celebrated for their competence, strength, and ability to "do it all"—but whose capacity and drive often masks a destructive pattern of self-abandonment, control, and exhaustion. Together, Nicole and Terri redefine codependency, highlight telltale behaviors of high-functioning codependents (HFCs), and share practical strategies for reclaiming personal peace, boundaries, and authenticity in relationships and life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Codependency & the Emergence of "High-Functioning Codependency"

[00:41]–[06:49]

• Nicole opens by challenging the stereotype of codependency as weakness or passivity, noting:

  "For a lot of us, especially the high achieving, hyper capable get shit done...types, codependency doesn’t look like codependency. It looks like competence." (Nicole, [01:22])

• Terri defines "high-functioning codependency" as a flavor of codependency that thrives among accomplished women—those who fix, manage, and control, often to their own detriment:

  "The irony is, the more capable you are, the less codependency looks like codependency, but it is still codependency. So we’re still burnt out, we’re still exhausted, we’re still resentful." (Terri, [04:49])

• The term was coined after Terri recognized her clients rejected the label "codependent" as it didn't fit their self-image:

  "They did not see themselves as codependent... 'Everyone’s dependent on me. I’m making all the moves...What are you talking about?’" (Terri, [03:58])

2. How to Recognize High-Functioning Codependency

[06:49]–[09:09]

• Terri’s definition:

  "It means you are overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes...of the people in your life to the detriment of your own internal peace, to the detriment of your emotional well-being." (Terri, [07:27])

• The critical difference between caring and codependency is when support for others becomes self-neglect and steers toward control:

  "The foundation of that behavior is an overt or covert bid, desire, attempt to control other people’s outcomes." (Terri, [08:23])

3. Root Causes, Control, and the "Hero Complex"

[09:09]–[14:10]

• Nicole and Terri examine the roots of the compulsion to control—including discomfort with others’ pain and the need for harmony.
• Terri’s personal story about her sister illustrates the transformation from rescuer to supporter:

  "My therapist said, ‘What makes you think you know what Jenna needs to learn in this lifetime and how she needs to learn it?’...By inserting myself...as the solution, what we’re really doing is centering ourselves." (Terri, [10:17]–[13:40])

• The true power lies in being present rather than fixing:

  "The real flex when it comes to love is...being able to be in the foxhole during the dark night of the soul. And instead of fixing, witnessing compassionately..." (Terri, [13:25])

4. Why It’s Difficult to Change & HFC Traits

[14:10]–[17:17]

• Conditioning and societal expectations push women toward self-sacrifice and over-giving.
• Key traits include:
  • Hyper-independence ("I got it, I got it, I got it")
  • Reluctance to ask for help
  • Mantras like "It has to be me"
• This dynamic breeds resentment and prevents true intimacy:

  "What is the fallout for living in this overfunctioning way for decades is...nobody knows you because a lot of times you’re saying yes when you wanna say no." (Terri, [15:33])

• Memorable quote:

  "If you need it all done your way, you’ll end up...doing it all and doing it all yourself." (Terri quoting her mother, [16:10])

5. Auto Advice-Giving and the Arrogance of "Knowing Best"

[18:38]–[22:28]

• Nicole asks if arrogance is hidden in these patterns—a resounding yes, says Terri:

  "There’s a hypervigilance that goes along with these behaviors...you can’t do that and have like real relationships too." (Terri, [18:53])

• The top HFC traits:
  • Auto advice-giving (often unsolicited)
  • Feeling responsible to fix others’ problems
  • Over-giving and over-functioning
• Practical tool: replace advice with the question—

  "Tell me what you think you should do, and just stop talking." (Terri, [20:48])

• The subtext of chronic advice-giving is, unconsciously, "I don’t think you’re going to figure this out," which is subtly dehumanizing and undermining.

6. Compulsive Accommodation and Existential Crisis

[22:28]–[25:52]

• Auto-accommodation (“I’ll move,” “I’ll help!” without being asked) is driven by compulsion, not simple kindness.
• The danger is relentless box-checking and compliance with others’ expectations, leading to a loss of self:

  "You built your life checking boxes that other people constructed, taking one for the team, saying yes when you want to say no, being overly self-sacrificing to the point where you didn't even know who you are." (Terri, [24:30])

7. Resentment as a Red Flag and GPS

[25:52]–[29:53]

• Resentment is both an alarm and a map—it signals where boundaries are needed.
• Terri walks through a "resentment inventory" exercise:

  "Take a quick resentment inventory because this acts as a very accurate GPS as to what relationships probably need your attention." (Terri, [26:21])

• Action involves identifying your part in the pattern and planning honest conversations.
• Prolonged neglect leads to bitterness, burnout, and existential discontent.

8. From ‘Self-Care’ to ‘Self-Consideration’

[30:12]–[33:20]

• Terri introduces "self-consideration":

  "In every decision you're making, you are considering yourself first. So what you think, how you feel, and what you want has to matter...to you more than what anyone else wants, thinks or feels." (Terri, [30:38])

• Prioritizing your own needs is not selfish—it enables conscious, authentic, and reciprocal giving.
• Over-offering and over-giving create their own cycle of resentment:

  "Takers are gonna take and you are this consummate giver and you’re mad she’s taking you up on it. How about stop offering?" (Terri, [31:44])

• The practice is about honesty with the self and recognizing self-abandonment as a source of relationship distance.

9. Allowing, Surrender, and Mel Robbins’ ‘Let Them’ Theory

[33:32]–[38:42]

• Terri sees recovery from HFC as ongoing, requiring active surrender—letting others handle their lives instead of intervening.
• Questioning and expanding, not defaulting to advice, change relationship dynamics:

  "When you start asking expansive questions instead of auto advice giving...you’re already going to be deepening your real closeness with others." (Terri, [34:13])

• The "let them" idea is helpful but oversimplified; Terri prefers the "put it down" metaphor:

  "When you realize what you’re carrying is not yours, put it down." (Terri, [36:25])

• Surrender means relinquishing the illusion of control and acknowledging others’ right to succeed and fail.

10. The Gift of Discomfort and Personal Growth

[38:42]–[39:50]

• Failure, struggle, and discomfort are essential for learning—robbing others of these experiences is neither loving nor effective:

  "The best things, my purpose has all come through flailing and failing and pain...That’s where my most discovery or awareness has come from." (Nicole, [38:55])

• The healthiest message we can give loved ones is:

  "You got this, and I got you." (Terri, [39:48])

Notable Quotes

• Terri Cole, on having boundaries:

  "Allowing my sister to be the hero of her own story, instead of her baby sister being the hero, she got everything that comes with that, the self esteem.... What we’re really doing is centering ourselves rather than tolerating the way someone that we love in pain is making us feel." – [13:01]

• Nicole Kalil, on self-reflection:

  "If the resentment is creeping in, if you’re exhausted and the weight of carrying it all feels too damn heavy, if you’re tired of being the emotional first responder in every relationship, I hope this is your invitation to pause, to question, to reclaim your energy, your boundaries, and your worth outside of what you do and who you are for everyone else." – [40:43]

• Terri Cole, on letting go:

  "We have to learn to let the chips fall where they may, when they’re not our mother chips, as I like to say. And we think all the fucking chips are our chips when we’re HFCs, but they’re really not." – [34:28]

Practical Tools & Takeaways

• Resentment Inventory: Use resentment as a guide—identify, acknowledge your role, and plan necessary conversations or boundaries.
• Pause & Choose: Distinguish between acting on auto-pilot versus making conscious, authentic choices.
• Shift from Advice to Inquiry: Ask, "What do you think you should do?" before dispensing advice, even if solicited.
• Practice Self-Consideration: Make your own wants, needs, and peace a priority in every decision.
• Embrace Discomfort: Allow yourself and others to flail and fail—growth happens in the struggle.

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |------------------------------------------------------ |:----------:| | Introduction, Redefinition of Codependency | 00:41–06:49 | | How to Recognize High-Functioning Codependency | 06:49–09:09 | | Control, "Hero Complex," and Personal Story | 09:09–14:10 | | Socialization, HFC Traits, and Intimacy | 14:10–17:17 | | Arrogance and Advice-Giving Patterns | 18:38–22:28 | | Auto-Accommodating and Existential Lostness | 22:28–25:52 | | Resentment as a GPS for Boundaries | 25:52–29:53 | | The Shift to Self-Consideration | 30:12–33:20 | | On Surrender, "Let Them," and Letting Go | 33:32–38:42 | | Discomfort and Healthy Relationships | 38:42–39:50 | | Closing Reflections and Resources | 40:04–41:59 |

Resources Mentioned

• Terri Cole’s latest book: Too Much: A Guide to Breaking the Cycle of High Functioning Codependency
• Free HFC Toolkit: terricole.com/hfc — includes "Simplify and Do Less" video/PDF and meditations

Final Reflections

This episode is a call for "the strong ones"—the women celebrated for their endless capacity—to pause and reclaim their right to inner peace, authentic relationships, and self-recognition beyond their usefulness to others. Through stories, practical advice, and a compassionate yet unflinching look at how competence can mask codependency, Terri Cole and Nicole Kalil invite listeners to consider new ways of being strong: with boundaries, self-consideration, and genuine presence for both themselves and those they love.