How To Be Yourself At Work: Authentic Presence Over Executive Presence with Claude Silver | 366

Summary

Podcast Summary: How To Be Yourself At Work: Authentic Presence Over Executive Presence

Podcast: This Is Woman’s Work with Nicole Kalil
Episode: 366
Guest: Claude Silver, Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX
Release Date: December 1, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode redefines what it means to "bring your whole self" to work, contrasting outdated notions of "executive presence" with a new standard: “authentic presence.” Nicole Kalil hosts Claude Silver—world’s first Chief Heart Officer and author of Be Yourself at Work—to unpack the challenges and nuances of showing up authentically in professional environments, and how doing so can revolutionize leadership, teamwork, and personal well-being.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Distinguishing Authenticity from Confidence

• Nicole (03:00): Explains that workplaces demand authenticity but rarely embrace it in practice, leading to discomfort when individuals show up as their full selves.
• Nicole (04:14):

  “Confidence is trusting yourself. Authenticity is being yourself. And in an ideal world, those two things would overlap...but we filter our authenticity through other people’s comfort, approval, and expectations.”

• Insight: Confidence is inward-facing (trusting yourself); authenticity is outward-facing (bringing your real self).

---

2. What Does Authenticity Really Mean at Work?

• Claude (05:15):

  "Showing up to me is the same exact thing as authenticity. That is stepping forward...in the being of who you are, not the doing of what you do, but the being."

• Authenticity at work is not about “saying or doing whatever you feel”; it’s about self-awareness and emotional regulation.
• Claude (06:32):

  “You don’t need to put armor up or box your emotions away. I don’t think that’s going to work anymore...the workplace is changing.”

• Metaphor: Carrying the weight of “not showing up” is like adding more to a heavy backpack each day—eventually it drags you down (07:00).

---

3. The Trap of “That’s Just Who I Am”

• Nicole (08:47): Explores the difference between genuine authenticity and using authenticity as an excuse for unkind or careless behavior.

• Claude (09:46):

  “You just said the magic word, consistent...If you’re grounded today and freaking out tomorrow, why would people trust who you are? ... Someone saying, ‘Here I am, take it or leave it,’ is coming from a fearful place, not a mature or self-aware place.”

• Consistency is the foundation of both authentic and executive presence.

• Memorable Moment:
  Nicole:

  “It falls into the category of things that only dicks say. Don’t be a dick. Don’t be a Richard.” (11:47)

---

4. From Executive Presence to Authentic Presence

• Nicole (12:22): Introduces Claude’s concept of “authentic presence” as a healthier, more sustainable path than “faking” executive presence.
• Claude (12:52):

  “Who are you when you’re brushing your teeth?...that is the authentic you. Not perfect, but present.”

• Claude (14:27): Suggests that authentic presence means being known for who you are at your core, not a performed version of yourself. Consistency matters.

---

5. Perfectionism as a Barrier

• Nicole (16:20):

  “Perfectionism actually creates a distance...setting an expectation no one can live up to—even yourself.”

• The goal is not to replace polish with oversharing, but to find honest places where you can let your guard down with people who relate to your experience.

• Claude (19:15):

  “Then I come to work...and it’s still with me because I refuse to put that part of my life and compartmentalize that over there in Albuquerque. That’s not fair to me.”

• Find your tribe at work (ERG groups, shared interests) for safe spaces to be real.

---

6. Bringing Imperfection Into the Workplace

• Nicole (21:00):

  “Letting people know when you’ve messed up or when something didn’t go according to plan...this is where we grow and learn.”

• They discuss how authenticity also involves accountability—owning mistakes without succumbing to imposter syndrome.

• Claude (21:50):

  “There are places in the workspace you will find you can be real real...I’m not suggesting you go into your CEO’s office and get real real today, unless you already have that connection. But you can find people similar to you.”

• Avoid veering into gossip or cynicism—keep authenticity constructive.

---

7. Navigating Power Dynamics & Challenging Moments

• Nicole (25:10): Shares her personal struggle with authenticity when faced with comments that trigger discomfort, especially from someone in authority.

• Claude (25:54): Offers a framework:

  • Option 1: Protect your energy—ignore and avoid engaging if it feels unsafe.
  • Option 2: Address privately if you feel safe—name what was said and its impact (“Hey, you said X, and it didn’t sit well with me”).
  • Option 3: Escalate if needed—to a manager or HR if boundaries are repeatedly crossed.

• Claude (27:35):

  “You have to figure out where you feel safe enough to state your truth...that you can still hug yourself afterwards and say, ‘You know what? Good job, I’m proud of you.’”

• Nicole (28:21): Measures her actions by self-pride:

  “Did I feel proud of myself on the other side of it?”

---

8. When Authenticity Feels Impossible

• Nicole (29:45):

  “If you cannot be yourself, you cannot be authentic in your workplace, then there also is the decision to go find someplace else to work.”

• Claude (31:05):

  “As long as it’s not going into your values and complete...if you need to, change clients, change teams, or decide when enough is enough. You won’t know unless you try.”
  “When we look at someone as though they had positive intent...it’s easier to accept that, forgive that, and move on.”

---

9. The Business Case for Authenticity

• Nicole (31:50): Challenges Claude to articulate the real, practical cost of not supporting authenticity at work.
• Claude (31:50):

  “Eventually you will quit, or we will let you go. The cost is attrition...less collaboration, less innovation, less creativity...You build walls, not bridges.”

  • Work is like a relationship; intimacy (emotional closeness, not just romantic) is vital. If you can’t let others authentically connect, relationships—personal or professional—suffer. (32:40)

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Nicole: “Confidence is trusting yourself. Authenticity is being yourself.” (04:14)
• Claude: “You don’t need to put armor up or box your emotions away. That’s archaic.” (06:32)
• Claude: “Consistency is the magic word. That’s what leadership and authentic presence are about.” (09:46)
• Nicole: “Don’t be a Richard.” (11:47)
• Claude: “Who are you when you’re brushing your teeth? That’s your authentic you.” (12:52)
• Nicole: “Perfectionism creates distance—from others and from yourself.” (16:20)
• Claude: “I refuse to put that part of my life...over there in Albuquerque. That’s not fair to me.” (19:15)
• Claude: “Test and learn—you won’t know unless you try.” (29:45)
• Claude: “The cost is enormous—to you and the company. You build walls, not bridges.” (31:50)

---

Actionable Takeaways

• Self-Awareness First: Invest in understanding your triggers, preferences, and authentic style before you try to “show up” as your best self.
• Consistency Over Perfection: Be consistently yourself; this builds trust far more than polished perfection.
• Find Your Tribes: Seek out workplace sub-communities (ERGs or affinity groups) for spaces to safely connect and practice authenticity.
• Handle Triggers Thoughtfully: If others’ behavior crosses your boundaries, evaluate your safety/comfort to choose between ignoring, privately addressing, or escalating.
• Give & Assume Permission: For organizations to foster authenticity, both leaders and team members must allow for others’ imperfections and “messiness.”
• Be Adaptive: It’s not about unfiltered honesty, but about alignment—private and public selves consistently matching.

---

Closing Reflection

The episode argues that authentic presence is not naive or risky—it’s brave, human, and, crucially, productive. It’s not about ignoring professionalism or using “being yourself” as an excuse for poor behavior. Instead, it's about genuinely aligning your inner and outer selves, building workplaces where all can truly belong, and leading with both heart and courage.

Final Words (Nicole, 33:55):

“The goal of authenticity isn’t to stay the same. It’s to stay true as you get better. Work is designed to support and test all of that. ... Your only real job is to keep bringing you into the room—even when it’s uncomfortable and imperfect. ... It’s brave. It’s human. It’s productive, and it’s woman’s work.”

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

Toast the holidays in a new way and raise a glass of Rumchata, a delicious creamy blend of horchata with rum. Enjoy it over ice or in your coffee. Rumchata. Your holiday cocktails just got sweeter. Tap or click the banner for more. Drink responsibly. Caribbean Rum with real dairy cream Natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof. Copyright 2025 Agave Loco Brands, Pojoaquee, Wisconsin. All rights reserved.

[State Farm Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm Listening to this podcast Smart move. Being financially savvy.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Smart move.

[State Farm Advertiser]

Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Claude Silver]

Foreign.

[Nicole Kahlil]

I am Nicole Kahlil and you're listening to the this Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. We're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today with you as the decider. Whatever feels true and real and right for you. That's how you do woman's Work. Which sounds beautifully simple, right? Know yourself, be yourself. Do what feels true. Except try doing that at work. Try showing up as your full, messy, evolving human self in a place where authenticity is one of those words that looks great on a company values poster but rarely feels as valued. In practice. We say we want people to bring their whole selves to work, but the second someone actually does, everyone gets real uncomfortable real fast. If you're too emotional, too direct, too honest, or too you, someone inevitably will tell you to read the room or tone it down. Or my personal favorite anti authenticity catchphrase, fake it till you make it. But maybe there is a little truth in all of that. Because, let's be honest, we can't and shouldn't just say or do whatever we feel like in any given moment at work, in a meeting or with a client, when your paycheck, promotion or reputation depends on other people's perception of you, or authenticity starts to feel like a luxury. And as you know, I've done a lot of work on confidence, which is often associated with and even interchanged with authenticity. So let's separate the two real quick. Confidence is when you trust yourself firmly and boldly. Authenticity is the quality of being real or true. And yes, I Just looked that up. So let me say that all another way. Confidence is trusting yourself. Authenticity is being yourself. And in an ideal world, those two things would overlap so much that they'd just be one big circle. But here's the problem. We live in a world that teaches us to look everywhere but within. For both, we tie our confidence to how we look, what we achieve, how successful people think we are. We filter our authenticity through other people's comfort, approval, and expectations. We outsource what can only come from the inside and then wonder why we don't feel real or rooted in who we are. And while this shows up in a lot of areas, I found that work is one of the hardest places to get it right. How do we walk that thin line between authenticity and professionalism, confidence and perception? How do we show up as our full, real selves, not the polished, filtered, executive presence version, while still being taken seriously? How do we bring our heart into a workplace that's still obsessed with our hustle? Well, our guest today has built her career answering those exact questions. Claude Silver is the world's first chief heart officer at vaynerx. Yes, that's a real title. And she's on a mission to revolutionize leadership, talent, and workplace culture. She's worked alongside Gary Vee to redefine what success looks like from the inside out. She's earned Adweek's Changing the game award and captivated audiences everywhere, from Google to the US Armed forces. Her new book, be yourself at the groundbreaking power of showing up, standing out, and leading from the heart, explores how authenticity, courage, and connection can change not just the way we lead, but but the way we live. So, Claude, thank you for being here today, and I have so many questions. I want to start with what I think is maybe the root of the entire conversation, which is how do you define authenticity? And very specifically, how do we do that at work when we are faced with things like professionalism, expectations, and other people's perceptions? So let's start with what is authenticity? And then, like, how do we do that at work?

[Claude Silver]

Amazing. Well, thank you again for having me, Nicole. That was a beautiful introduction. And so I almost named the book, you know, showing up with your messy self. That's really what I wanted to name the book. And then I realized a lot of people might not pick it up if it says messy, but it does say messy internally. Showing up to me is the same exact thing as authenticity. That is stepping forward, as you said, be in the being of who you are, not the doing of what you of what you do, but the being. And so it doesn't take. I'm not saying that it takes confidence. I'm saying that it takes self awareness and self assurance that you can walk forward just as you are and be accepted just as you are. Very, very difficult to get our brain around that because we think that people are looking at us all the time and judging us and criticizing us internally or externally. Even if they are, it's not our business. What is our business is to show up as the best we possibly can. And the best we possibly can sometimes is going to be a little hectic because we had a frantic morning with the kids. You missed your workout, you got into a fight with your partner, I don't know, you got engaged the weekend before, all kinds of things. And then we have to show up at work and we do our best to, to not silence everything, but to put everything in a little box until we can open it up again. And what I'm suggesting is you don't need to do that. You don't need to put armor up or box your emotions away. I don't think that's going to work anymore. I think that's an archaic way of working and living. However, I do realize that what I'm asking people to do is do a little bit of tippy toeing into the water. I'm not saying you need to go take the plunge, there's no cannonball here. But what I am saying is through your own self awareness, spending time with yourself, understanding how you can emotionally regulate, understanding your triggers, where you tic, where you talk, those types of things, understanding your communication style, that's the genesis of all of this. Otherwise, if you don't know who you are, you will show up. Hey, you know, hey, I'm here and I'm everywhere and that's gonna be too much for people, right? You take the time to figure yourself out. And that's what the book, that's how the book actually starts. Which is what is the benefit of showing up and what are you costing yourself when you don't show up. And that's a hard one. Unless you get very present with what you're costing yourself. Meaning every day when you show up at work and you put more and more stuff into your backpack, that's just more weight, you're carrying more weight, emotional weight, more indecision, more uncertainty, more ambiguity. And then you have all of that to deal with at work as well. In a very volatile climate that we're in. That's the cost. The cost is that you are going to be hunched over metaphorically, maybe in real life too, from carrying all of this stuff that you don't need to carry. The workplace is changing. We have Gen Z in the house. We've got Gen Alpha coming up. They are not going to take what you and I took as Gen Xers. They're just not. They're not going to take what millennials took either. Right. They are going to demand. They are demanding something very, very different. And if we want to retain them, we must change with the times.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Okay. There was a lot in there and I kind of want to pull a few things out first. When you were talking about being our best selves and knowing who we are, I think sometimes we confuse authenticity with just doing or saying whatever we feel like in the moment versus how you're defining authenticity is knowing who we are and bringing our best version of that to the table. So any thoughts on like this? I don't know if paradox is the right word, but where people are like, oh, that's just who I am, like, and they use it to dismiss bad behavior versus the version of authenticity that we're talking about here, which is bringing your best growing, evolving, messy self, but still best of who you are and being rooted in who that is on a consistent basis. Is my question making any sense?

[Claude Silver]

It is. And you, you just said the magic word, consistent. That is the magic word. You cannot show up as yourself, grounded today as I am, and then tomorrow freak out. Then why would people trust who I am? They need to see a consistent Claude, a consistent Nicole. And that's what, by the way, I think that's what leadership is about. And I also think that's what executive presence is about. There's a consistency that we don't talk about a lot. The difference that you're, that you brought up is I do not think someone that says, well, here I am, take it or leave it is coming from a mature place or a self aware place. I think that's a fearful place. I think that's a place of, nah, I haven't, you know, working on myself is just too tough or I don't have money for therapy or whatever the answers are. And so just take it as it is. Not fair.

[Nicole Kahlil]

That's not fair.

[Claude Silver]

The people at work, the energy at work, the culture at work doesn't just have to take it as it is. I do think it's a two way street. The person I just interviewed for three months, you interviewed your hiring managers. I just am. You came here, you were consistently Nicole As I see her now and then day three, you're like, well, take it as it is. Well, then some. We can either we didn't catch anything or. Or you really pulled a fast one over us in order to show up in the way I'm talking about, as you said, so clearly, it is about showing up and standing out as who you are knowing yourself. Or at least on the journey to knowing yourself. You know, it'll be a lifelong journey for most of us. Right. So that's really what I'm saying. When you come in, I'm just like, well, this is who I am. Take it or leave it. There's no self awareness there.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Right.

[Claude Silver]

There is just a mess, a puddle that you are expecting people to either jump in and have fun with your personality or step over and ignore you. And that's not gonna work for you. Yeah.

[Nicole Kahlil]

I often feel like when people say that, it's a masking, it's a insecurity that they're trying to cover with some sort of arrogance or ego or something like that. It falls into the category of things that only dicks say. Don't be a dick. Don't be a Richard.

[Claude Silver]

Right, Exactly. It's. It's totally laced in fear. It's totally laced in fear and it comes across in sarcasm. To your point or just like this, who I am. And it's like, no, that's not really who you are. Yeah.

[Nicole Kahlil]

And who you are sucks. Yeah.

[Claude Silver]

No, don't want to hang with you.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Exactly. Okay. So I hear the term executive presence a lot. I think because I work in the space of confidence, people bring it up like, how do I present myself confidently is basically what they're trying to say. You coined the term authentic presence, which I love, because yes, we can probably teach people to fake confidence for a period of time, but it's not going to be consistent and it's not sustainable. So what is authentic presence and how do we create and achieve that for ourselves?

[Claude Silver]

I'm glad you brought that up. So I first came about that phrase. It landed on me when maybe seven years ago or so when I was just thinking about writing the book. But what I was saying to people when they would come in the room and I would do this, High performance coaching is one of the first things I would say to them. Whomever is, who are you when you're brushing your teeth? Who are you when you're just in the morning woken up, you haven't spoken to anyone, you're just brushing your teeth. To me, that is the authentic you to me, that is it. You probably have got a song in your head. You're probably thinking about what you're going to wear. You're going to. That, to me is very, very real. And so that's how it started, which is who are you when you're just chilling out? And I don't mean chilling out on the sofa eating Fritos, I mean chilling out in preparation to start your day. So authentic presence to me is all about again, knowing who I am, being at least semi comfortable in it. Because I'm learning and showing up that way, being present that way, which is not going to be perfect. It's not because I'm not perfect. No one is. I think the term executive presence calls for something that might not be as valid as it once was in the way that I think about the workplace today. But authentic presence I think is this is who you are. And sometimes you're funny and sometimes you're goofy and sometimes you're really serious. And I know that because you're consistently showing up like that or you're consistently showing up as a jerk. So that is if that's your authentic presence. No, thank you. It's not going to work here.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Right?

[Claude Silver]

So it is the actual you when you are you. When I am driving to work in the day and I'm listening to music or listening to a book on Audible or something, that's just who I am. I'm chill. That's who I am. Some other people are road raging and frantic. That's just who they are.

[Coca Cola Advertiser]

Coca Cola for the big, for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers. Risk takers for the optimists, pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.

[Disney Plus/Hulu Advertiser]

Tis the season for all your holiday favorites like a very Jonah's Christmas movie and Home Alone on Disney.

[Capella University Advertiser]

Did I burn down the toy?

[Claude Silver]

I don't think so.

[Disney Plus/Hulu Advertiser]

Then Hulu has National Lampoon's Christmas vacation. We're all in for a very big Christmas treat. All them of movies and more streaming this holiday season. And right now save big with our special Black Friday offer. Bundle Disney plus and Hulu for just 4.99amonth for one year savings compared to current regular monthly price. Ends 121 offer for ad supported Disney Plus Hulu bundle only then $12.99 a month or then current regular monthly price.

[Capella University Advertiser]

18 plus terms apply at Capella University Learning Online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, like your enrollment specialist, who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program. Plus, career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Edu.

[Nicole Kahlil]

So you said the word perfect, and I think that's ultimately what I hear when people ask about executive presence or speak confidently. It's like, how do I show up perfectly in. In my research? I call perfectionism one of the confidence derailers. It chips away and does damage. And one of the things that I sort of realized for myself is perfectionism does the opposite of what we want it to do. We think if we show up perfectly, then everybody will like us, accept us, appreciate us, want to be around us, that we'll be happy and everything will work out the way we want it to. When the reality is perfectionism actually creates a distance from the people in our lives, people we work with, and from ourselves. We're setting an expectation that everyone knows they can never live up to. It's too hard, it's too unreal. And so we end up creating distance. So let's talk about this messy, flawed, imperfect version of ourselves at work. What are some ways that we might be real about that without tipping over into imposter syndrome or sounding like we're discounting ourselves all the time, or getting into information that people don't really need.

[Claude Silver]

To have, saying inappropriate things.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Right?

[Claude Silver]

Yeah. Well, this is the. The beautiful thing about work is you are going to meet enormous amounts of people that are going to have some similarity with you, some identical similarities with you, and then nothing at all. I would say if you are talking to another mom that has a kid under seven, there's probably a lot you can relate to. So my kids made a mess. There's syrup all over the counter today. They yelled at me. They said they hated me last night. Whatever. Something that this person can probably relate to. Why? Because you've talked to them? You're Both parents of 7 year olds or 6 and 5 year olds, right? You have that connection already. You've established that the first day you met this person, you may not have said, my kids told me they hated me last night. Or you may have thinking that you're talking to another mom, right? Or another parent. But that's what this is all about, which is forging those Connections where you can find not only safety, but belonging. Meaning I can breathe here, my hair down here. I don't have to be perfect. There's nothing I can tell you for sure that I had syrup all over my hands today, and then the dog had an accident on the floor. That is my life. And then I come to work, then I open my laptop, and it's still with me because I refuse to put that away. I refuse to put that part of my life and compartmentalize that over there in Albuquerque. Right. That's not fair to me. Then I'm leaving parts of myself behind me. I'm leaving. I'm keeping myself away from me, and thus I'm keeping myself away from you.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Right.

[Claude Silver]

Shielding you in some way. So the way I think that you can find, you know, opportunities to just share the authentic you is with people that have similarities that you've already met or join an erg. It's called parenting erg, women's erg, LGBTQ erg. There's all of these ergs in most of our workplaces now, where you can find almost subsets of the culture that you best fit into, that you identify with. And that's a wonderful place to get real. What was it like when you first came out? My parents didn't talk to me. They still don't talk to me. Whatever it is. This is one of the things that I learned a long time ago, and I recognize that it is not everyone's journey to learn. There are so many similarities between us. The only difference is the lived experience, but the similarities of emotion are very, very real. Right. You and I both are empathetic people. We might express empathy a slightly different way, but we both know that empathy is an emotion, and the output, the outpouring, is kindness and compassion. You and I both can agree on that. Right? Okay. So we have some commonalities right there. And then we can talk about whatever it is, our kids or that meeting or. Gosh, I felt like that meeting just went way over my head. I was like talking to a PhD person. Oh, my God. You know, same thing here. We have to get real. We have to. I don't think we can afford not to be anymore. I think this society and this culture is burning us out too quickly now.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Right.

[Claude Silver]

It's not sustainable for us, and it's certainly not sustainable for the generations that are coming up, and it's not fair.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Yeah. And as you're talking, I think that there is a huge component of this, of bringing our full selves into the workplace. And feeling that we belong there, like who we are both inside and outside the workplace. I'll also add, too, under the umbrella of perfectionism, I think one of the things that we can also do is within the workplace is letting people know when we've messed up or when something didn't go according to plan, or like, oop, we tested that out. That didn't work. Or, you know, I hit these goals, but I didn't hit this one. And here's what I'm learning from it. This idea that we don't trade polished, proving perfection for real, authentic, growing learning. And that's the presence that I'm hearing. When you talk about authentic presence versus.

[Claude Silver]

Executive presence, that is exactly it. You. You absolutely nailed it. It is the real real. It's the real real. And there are places in the workplace workspace that you will find you can be real real. I'm not suggesting you. You go into your CEO's office and get real real today, unless you already have established that wonderful connection. But what I am suggesting is you find people similar to you. You find commonalities, and that's how you make friends. We made friends on the playground a long time ago. And by the way, what you brought up is so important, which is it's not only just to share the fact that there was syrup all over my hair. It's to share. Like, I really had a hard time with my review today, and I need to talk to someone about it, and I don't want to go to hr and I don't want to go to my manager. Now, the caveat there that I'll say is that what I would advise people not to do is go down the road of cynicism and gossip. I would try to take the higher road on that one, because you don't want to all of a sudden create toxicity where there doesn't need to be. So it's just real, real. And that I think as parents, we are trying to do more and more of. And I know as. As. As women, we are having harder and harder conversations in the workplace. Whether or not it's miscarriage, whether or not it's infertility, whether or not it's peri or menopause, we're having these conversations. Thank God. Doesn't have to be such a secret, because those secrets cause shame. Yeah.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Okay. I don't know if this is universally true. This might have just been my lived experience, but I found it a little bit easier the more positional authority I had to be truer to who I Am. I felt like once I sort of moved up to the ranks or was in more of a leadership position, then I felt a little more comfortable to be myself. Not thoroughly comfortable, but more comfortable. Any advice? And you kind of gave some already, but any advice for those people who aren't in a leadership role or maybe new to a team, of how to be consistently authentic when you're still sort of navigating the waters a little bit?

[Claude Silver]

Well, exactly. I think you said it. It is literally trying different things out, and it is dipping your toe in the water. So what do we all love to talk about? Music. What do we all love to talk about? Shows. We're binging on, tv, what do we all love to talk about? Where we went to college. All that stuff. So there. Right. There is three things that you can talk about. What else? Where I interned. Like, there are so many commonalities. Oh, I do. I am a creator on the side, and I take fashion photography. Oh, cool. I'm a model, whatever it is. And I don't mean to be coy about that, but you never know unless you try. And if you don't try, then you are missing out on sharing parts of you and you are missing out on learning about other people. And we spend so much time in this workplace, whether or not it's on Zoom or in the room, I do think that we owe it to ourselves to forge connection, to find a way to enjoy the eight, nine hours that we're at work. Yeah, right.

[Nicole Kahlil]

One of the places I've always found it the most challenging to hold onto my authenticity, especially in the workplace, is when you find yourself in an environment where somebody says something that feels so contrary to who you are, it's so the antithesis of what you believe or your lived experience. And especially if there's a power dynamic, like a client says something that you just fundamentally don't believe in, or a, you know, somebody you report to makes a joke that doesn't feel like a joke. Any tips for how to hold on to your authenticity? How to be true to yourself and be consistently yourself in those challenging moments?

[Claude Silver]

Yeah, because you're right. We are. We have them, and we are going to continue to have them. Even if you are in the C Suite, you will have something, someone will say something, and it will jar you. And you were talking about it, and you could see my body. I was like this, you know, no, no, that's. Get away. So there's a couple things you can do. One, ignore it. Keep yourself safe. You don't need to Engage. Just know that mayday, that might not be the person that you want to go out for coffee with. That's one thing you can do, and I don't think there's harm in that. I think that's called self preservation. Doesn't mean you're going to ignore the person. You just don't want to be around that person when they're talking about whatever topic it is that triggered you. It's a trigger. Right? That's the first thing. The second thing you can do is not in public, in private. You can say if you feel like it. Hey, you mind if I just share something with you? Sure, go ahead. You know, when you just said X about that person's body, it really, it. It didn't sit well with me. And I don't know what it is like, I don't know, I guess it was a joke, but it just didn't sit well with me. And can. Is it something that you think you can work on? Okay, that person might be like, you gotta be crazy, or, oh my God, I didn't realize I said that. Or you can take that to your manager and say, this person continues to talk about my body in a way that is disparaging and it's embarrassing and I don't want to be in that. So there's choices here. You have to know yourself and your limits. And what I mean by that is, I know where I begin and end and this is my space. And you have your own space. When you come into my space and I didn't invite you, that is when I'm going to say, mayday, you came too close. Whatever I need to say. So. And I remember saying this, even as a C suite person. I said this to someone else on the C suite seven, eight years ago. I said, can you please stop interrupting me within a group room? And the person said, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize I was doing that. And I'll tell you, it's never happened since then. You have to figure out where you feel safe enough to state your truth. And I'm not saying, go hang yourself out there to dry. That's not safe. But where you feel safe enough that you can still hug yourself afterwards and say, you know what? Good job, I'm proud of you. Way to go.

[Nicole Kahlil]

You know, that's often the measurement that I use is did I feel proud of myself on the other side of it? And you know, sometimes the answer is no. And you. Then I learn and try to figure that out. I'll also say that, you know, there is a testing that I think happens for ourselves. Like, when something happens, I'm going to test handling it this way and see how I feel. I'll see what the response is. You know, there's that. But what I have found is, and I don't have data on this, I'm making up percentages, but I'm going to say, like, 70% of the time, if you give people the benefit of the doubt.

[Claude Silver]

Yeah.

[Nicole Kahlil]

And you bring like, hey, I'm not sure if you're aware, or I don't think this was your intention, or I want to bring this up because I want to be a team player and help us all be better or whatever it is that people are often open. They often are like, oh, my God, I didn't know, or I didn't think, or, you're right, or I'll do better. And then there's the 30% of the time that people get defensive or aren't open or refuse to. And then you've got some decisions to make about how you interact with that person or what you say or don't say, or I think the ultimate decision is if through testing and over time, you cannot be yourself, you cannot be authentic in your workplace, then there also is the decision to go find someplace else to work.

[Claude Silver]

That's. That's absolutely right. You need to know your limits. And hopefully you're, as a human being, you're able to stretch a bit. As long as it's not going into your values and complete. As long as you're not with someone that is completely saying something that is against your values. And you need to sit there night after night at client dinner saying that I would definitely then say, you know what, I need to. I need to change clients because I don't believe in this. And this is the person's talk track every time we go to dinner or, you know, okay, I'm willing to sit there. I'm not going to debate. I'm going to ignore it. But you said something really great, which is test and learn. You're not going to know unless you try. And you can't take that advice from. You can't say, okay, well, Sally, what did you do? You have to know what's right for Claude. You have to know what's right for Nicole. And you said something that I think is completely awesome, which is when we look at someone as though they had positive intent, they didn't mean to hurt us. They were just saying what was on their mind. They had a busy morning, too at home, whatever happened, when you can say, you know what? I know that person isn't a jerk, then, you know, it's easier to accept that. It's easier to forgive that. It's easier to say, I get it, that person probably had a bad morning.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Well, if we want to value authenticity and messiness and imperfection and learning as we go, we need to not just give ourselves permission, but other people permission as well. We have to allow it, which can be challenging for sure. But I think that there is something to that. You said this earlier, and I just want to circle back on it. There is a cost to not bringing yourself into the workplace. And I think sometimes people think of this as like, woo, woo, or like, oh, that sounds good. But let's be practical. What is the business case? What is the cost to ourselves and to the, you know, workplace that we're in if we aren't ourselves or if we're not allowed to be ourselves?

[Claude Silver]

Well, eventually you will quit, or eventually we will let you go. There will be some disconnect there at some point. The cost is attrition. The cost is it costs more and more and more to recruit after someone leaves 33%, if not more, just to. Just to backfill you with the recruiter. You know, the cost is absolutely, I would say, less collaboration, less innovation, creativity, all of those things. Why would I want to sit and share my deck with that person when I don't like that person or I've already put a wall between me and that person rather than a bridge? So the cost is enormous to a company and the cost is enormous to you. And I liken it to a relationship. Work is a relationship that we're having, and obviously we're building relationships with the people in them. We often, most of us find a partner and forge a relationship with them. That takes something called intimacy. I'm not talking about sexual intimacy. I'm talking about the intimacy of connecting with another person. And we've all, myself included, have kept people at bay, whether or not that is in a romantic relationship or whether that is at work. You're too close. I don't want to get close to you. You don't know me. You've crossed my boundaries. That's what I'm saying internally, right? Or in a romantic relationship. It's like I'm scared. So I'm going to keep myself at a distance. And you know what? You're going to end up feeling that. And if I'm not able to find my way to share that with you, the Relationship might be over. Right. And vice versa. Right.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Claude, thank you. Such an important topic, and I appreciate you being here to talk about it for our listener. I wanna make sure you know and get your hands on the book. It's called Be Yourself at Work. It's available wherever you buy books. But let's keep our local bookstores in business, and we'll put every other way to find and follow Claude in show notes. Thank you for being here today.

[Claude Silver]

Thank you.

[Nicole Kahlil]

All right, friend. Authenticity isn't a permission slip to ignore basic professionalism, dump your unfiltered thoughts on your clients, or turn your Monday meeting into a therapy session. It's about alignment. It's about who you are privately, matching who you are publicly, consistently. It's about trusting yourself enough to stop performing, improving, and start showing up in ways that are real. And while being confident and authentic matters, so does being in motion, growing, stretching, challenging yourself. That's how you become more of who you are. Because the real you isn't static. She evolves. She experiments. She screws up and learns and tries again. What I'm trying to say is that the goal of authenticity isn't to stay the same. It's to stay true as you get better. Work is designed to support and test all of that. But if the goal is to belong rather than to fit in, to lead rather than to please, then your only real job is to keep bringing you into the room. Even when it's uncomfortable and even when it's imperfect. Because being yourself at work isn't naive, risky or reckless. It's brave. It's human. It's productive, and it's woman's work.