D (4:01)

Absolutely. Nicole, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's definitely not easy and it definitely never stops. I remember one time I was going to this audition in New York and I saw one of my friends who's very award acclaimed, Tony Award, acclaimed actress. She has been nominated three times, she's won once. And I saw her also on the same street. And so I said, hey, what are you doing? She goes, oh, I'm going to an audition. And I just said, really? Like, you know, and it just, it was that reminder of it never, you never have to. Nobody ever just sometimes you get offered the job. Like, look, sometimes that happens, but a lot of times it doesn't and you have to go for it and you have to put yourself out there. You have to face a lot of rejection, but there's just something inside of you that says, yes, and that you can do it and kind of propels you forward, you know, When I first moved to New York, after I did the tour with Bette Midler, my mom gave me a book, and it had a Pablo Neruda poem and translated. It said, traveler, there is no trail. The path is made by walking. And that really resonated with me because so much of my life has been watching other people. Like, the beginning of my life at 19, 20, you feel like, oh, my gosh, I've lived so much life. And now that I'm 46, you realize, like, wow, I had so much to learn, and I knew nothing. Nothing really, except that I wanted certain things. Things. But when I was a kid, you know, I loved to sing all the time. And I had a grandmother who loved show tunes. And I was the only grandchild that really sang back with her for those show tunes. She loved torch singers like Judy Garland, Edie Gourmet and Ethel Merman. And she babysat us a lot. And she told my parents that Mandy has talented. And we have to figure out what to do because we have to get her into lessons because she's going to hurt herself. She's too loud. And little did she know that that loud voice would one day help me in my projection on Broadway and everywhere else. But it was really her seeing something that was special in me and putting that out there that made me feel so special and that I could do. Do anything. And she was really the one that went to. You know, in those days, there was no Internet, and so she had to go to the paper and see where there were opportunities that I could perform at. And there was a dinner theater down the street from her house called the Showboat Dinner Theater. And we would go there because it had all, you can eat pickles. And we had to take my brother, and we both liked pickles because we're a year apart, and my brother is not a performer at all. But he had to go with me to everything. And so we went and we saw man of La Mancha there. And my grandmother went up to Aldonza after the performance and said, my granddaughter can sing and she needs lessons. Do you teach? And da, da, da. And she said, yes, I do. And that became my first singing teacher. So I think that dream of performing and wanting to pursue this creative life for a living started with her and her encouragement of, well, you can do it. Every family get together, I would sing, I would be. My grandmother would put me up there and say, mandy, sing. And everybody would have to sit down, including my brother, and listen to me. So for some reason, it made me feel really, really special. And it wasn't Until I was 15, you know, I had done a lot of, you know, different lessons, a lot of performing around town, because I'm from Los Angeles with a group called Rock Theater. It was a performing group. But it wasn't until I was 15 that my singing teacher told me about a performing arts camp in Florida where there were Broadway professionals that were teaching. And I went to that camp and that's where I. I realized that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. Because all of a sudden, you're no longer the best one in the room. You're with all these other kids that are the best ones in their community. And they all had so much information. You know, all of them were deciding, well, I'm going to go to this school for college. I'm going to go to this school for college. I'm going to go here, here, here. So I thought I came back from that and I told my mom and I said, well, I guess I have to go to these schools in order to, to get where I want to go. So I have to, you know, apply for these schools, apply for this school, apply for this school. And there were some schools that I just, I didn't get in, and there were some schools that I auditioned for that I got to the next step. But it was a school that was just way out of our league financially. And I couldn't even fathom thinking about going to that school. And I remember thinking, well, that's it, you know, I didn't go to these schools that everybody else went to, so I'm not going to be able to do this. So. But there was still something in me, this fire that burnt. And so I said, well, I think what I'll do is I'll go to school, close a school that had accepted me, that was close to home, CalArts. And I went there for my first year, my only year of college, and they didn't have a musical theater program. It was just theater. But that was really great for me. And I lived at home and I went to school. And then somebody had called me through all my lessons, through all the work that I'd done, you know, growing up. They called and said that there were. Was an open call to audition for Bette Midler. And I thought, well, that sounds kind of cool. And that's when it, you know, I said yes. And I waited in line with hundreds of people to have my Five minutes in front of that creative team. And that's where it really started for me, that saying, yes, but there are those moments why I say that Pablo and Eruda thing, because there are those moments where you think, well, I can't do it because of this and this and this and this. I meet so many people on a daily basis that that will tell me that, like, I want to do this, but I'm already this age, or I'm doing this, but, you know, I have this responsibility, so I can't pursue that. And I just say to all of that, I really feel like there's no time like the present. And if you really want to do something, you just have to say yes and go for it. And that's enough to start, because it's hard enough to just put yourself out there, and that's. That's enough. But that's a first step. It's about taking that first step towards your dream. And that doesn't mean that your dream is going to look exactly how you thought it was going to look. You know, when I moved to New York, I set a goal for myself and I said, I'm going to be on Broadway in six months. Like, that was my goal. And I moved to New York and I lived in Brooklyn, and I was going out for all these open calls. I bagged wealthy people's groceries in the mornings, and then at night I worked at a restaurant doing coat check. And during the day, I went through the papers and I went to every open call that I fit into. And at six months, I did not get a job on Broadway, but I got a job off Broadway. And that job off Broadway completely changed my life, because it was a show called Eli's Coming, and it was directed by Diane Paulus, and Judy Kuhn was in the cast. Anika Noni Rose, who was also just starting, Wilson Jermaine Heredia, who I had loved from Rent, and Ronell Bay, a famous jazz singer. And it completely changed my life, because that's where a lot of people from the Broadway community, from the New York community came to the Vineyard Theater, this prestigious theater, to see that show. And from there, I got offered to be a standby for Princess Amneris and Aida. And that was another moment where I had somebody tell me, like, you shouldn't be a standby. You know, the standby is like an understudy. It's. You're just. But you're just there for this one part. You're kind of off stage the whole time. And they said, you shouldn't do that because that'll ruin your career. And you know, that's. You'll never do anything else but that. So I thought about it and I really wanted to do it because it sounded really cool and I'd never done a Broadway show. And. And then I remember sitting with Judy Kuhn in the dressing room and she said, well, I've been a standby and this is a woman who was the original Cosette in Les Miserables. Like, she's done beyond that, like everything. And I said yes. And that started my Broadway career. So it didn't start at the six month mark, but it definitely started soon after that.

C (13:14)

Okay, so I'm gonna pull out a handful of things that you said that I have found to be true from most people that I know that have accomplished big things. And that is first, there's often somebody who sees something in us that we don't yet see ourselves or believe, whether that is a family member or a mentor or a coach or someone along the way sees something in us. Then we have the opportunity and the challenge that we all face where, you know, you get serious about something and you're being put alongside other people who do what you want to do. And that can either. That challenge can either motivate us or it can knock us out of the game altogether. And those people who succeed tend to be the ones that get motivated. People are going to say no. In fact, you'll probably get a lot more no's than yeses. And there are going to be people who don't see your dream. And that doesn't change the fact that it's still your dream. Keep showing up. Opportunity creates opportunity. Right? Like you were saying, because of the experiences. That's how somebody told you about the Bet Midler opportunity. Most people have some sort of work that supports the chase, right? Whether it's bagging wealthy people's groceries or something like that. Most people do something that pays the bills while they're doing the chase. And then finally this idea of trusting yourself over other people's opinions. Your path is your path. So whether it's being an understudy when somebody says you shouldn't be or some version of that, you kind of have to listen to people, but listen to yourself more than anything and anyone else. Because as you said, the path is made by walking, not by overthinking or, you know, all the other things.

D (15:03)

So that happens too, though?

C (15:05)

Yeah, of course.

D (15:06)

Always like part of it, you know, and that was another experience for me. Anxiety and learning how to live with it and you know, the overthinking of it all and not catastrophizing and learning how to live in the moment. I mean, that's definitely for somebody like me with such an imagination, overthinking can definitely get you into trouble. But if you accept it, it's just, it's just a thought.

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C (16:24)

I want to talk about some of the failures and the no's and the obstacles and the challenges we'll all inevitably face when we're chasing a dream. I think sometimes we think those obstacles and challenges are going to be within the dream we're chasing, but sometimes they can be outside of it. The example that comes to mind, knowing a little bit about your story, is being diagnosed with breast cancer.

D (16:50)

Mm.

C (16:51)

That wasn't a challenge of somebody saying no to you in an audition or auditioning for the right parts, what or things like that. That was something outside of your dream that impacted your dream. So how did you navigate the challenge of having breast cancer going through chemotherapy while still showing up eight days a week to perform on stage with Hamilton?

D (17:17)

Yeah, it's definitely something I don't recommend for everybody or anybody, but for me, I think it really saved me during that time because it was something that cancer couldn't take. I when I was diagnosed, I said, okay, well cancer can be part of my life, but it can't be all of my life. And I had so many people tell me that, well, you can't perform or you can't do this. During that you just have to sit and sometimes you can't But I had a doctor, my oncologist, who said that, you can do it. I know you can do it. And I think there's something about the way that I grew up and the show must go on kind of mentality that I always knew that was familiar and really allowed me to fight through that. And it wasn't until the pandemic happened that Broadway shut down. And then all I had to do was go to chemotherapy and get treatment and deal with my family and all of those kind of things that I realized how much I needed to stop, how much I needed to take a minute to figure out who I was now. And the healing process of going through a cancer battle, you know, I wasn't prepared for any of it. And I remember how much when I was performing, how much it saved me to sing, because I always feel like singing is the closest that I. I come and I get to God, because it just really allows me to feel free, you know, of everything. I don't have to think about anything. It's just something that I. It's such a gift that I've been given and to give to other people. It allowed me to let go of my worry about cancer, my worry about what could happen. You know, talking about anxiety, I mean, it was deep. But then when I did have to stop because of pandemic, I learned so much about myself. I think we all learned so much about ourselves, like, during pandemic. And I finished my treatment, and then I looked at my husband, and I said, well, now what am I going to do? You know, I have to sing. I have to do something. But nobody was, you know, allowing you to come into the room or you couldn't work. It was just. It was so difficult. And so my husband and I put together in our back room a whole set where I would do concerts online for people. We came up with those concerts. We met somebody that did that kind of thing online where they could put those concerts out to people. And I started to get hired. I started to, you know, put that out there that I was doing concerts. People started to come, and then I. I started to get hired by different companies who were no longer doing their retreats for their customers or this and that because of the pandemic. So I think that I'm just that kind of personality. It doesn't matter what I'm going through. I need to create, and I need to. To do what I do, and I will find a way to do it, to express myself. And for me, when I'm doing that is when I feel most alive.

C (21:03)

Right. Yeah. I think that there's something to this idea. When you have a big dream and there is all kinds of dreams. Right. But when you have a dream that isn't so much something you want as it is who you are, you sort of can't not do it. Like the idea of not doing it is more painful than the rejection and the fear and the anxiety and all the things that come along with it. And you know, I think it's worth reiterating this sort of mentality that you have of the show must go on.

D (21:38)

Yeah. And you know, I have. I grew up with a dad who, you know, both my parents are great and amazing, but my dad used to sing in a band when he was. When he was younger and then he got drafted to Vietnam and when he came back from the war, he decided that he wasn't going to sing anymore. I don't know that why, but that was it. And he sold his microphone, he sold his amps that he had from the band. But my father played music all the time in the house, both my parents did. And he would play the drums on the steering wheel and introduced me to so much music. And the first time I heard him sing was when he was going to be reunited with his band from high school. They were going to do, you know, this reunion concert. I went and I heard him sing for the first time and I was like, oh my gosh, like, he was so talented and I couldn't imagine having to hold all that talent in and not be able to do it. So I think there's also something in that because I do come from very hard working people, you know, blue collar, and they've had to hold their dreams to the side in order for us to survive. And I think that when I see those things, I go, well, I'm going to give it all because they're with. I feel like they're with me and along for the ride. So I don't know who sang before my father, but I knew that I wasn't going to keep it inside what I have to give. And so I think that if you have that, if you have that talent and you're thinking, well, I don't have the time, maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I don't have this. We'll never know if you don't go for it.

C (23:33)

Totally. Okay. I am curious your thoughts on Plan Bs. When we talk about chasing a dream, should we have a plan B? Is there a place for that? Is that A discouragement or an out. Like, what are your thoughts about having a plan B?

D (23:49)

I think you should never feel limited to be one thing in this life. And when I started, it was like, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be a singer. I'm gonna be on Broadway. I'm gonna be an actress. And that's what I'm gonna do. And then, as I've grown up, I go, well, I really like writing. I really like directing. I like doing this. There's no. To me, there's no such thing as a plan B. It's just life. And it's just another category of your life. You know, it's like your life is this big pie, and what you do is one part of it. This is another part of it. This is another part of it. And I think that it makes it so much, so much better. You know, when I meet with young people and they tell me, well, my. My parents don't think I can make a living in the arts, and so therefore, they don't want me to go and study it, and I say, well, first off, I don't think that's fair. I think that if you encourage your kid to pursue the arts all through their life, and then all of a sudden they want to do it for a living, and you go, well, no, now, we don't support any of that. I think that if that happens to you, and you do have to study something else, find the choir in your college, find a class that you can take, find a community theater nearby that might allow you that outlet to perform. So if you're facing that kind of roadblock, you just have to find other things to fill in the pie, because you don't have to be one thing. You know, I want to make a certain amount of money in my life, and I want to make sure that that's taken care of before I pursue this other dream that I have. Okay, that's cool. Take care of that and then do that as well.

C (25:36)

Right?

D (25:37)

Your life doesn't have to be, like, black and white. Like, there can be a gray, and it's okay to feel like you want to live in that a little bit.

C (25:45)

Well, what I'm hearing, and I think it's just really good advice, is there are so many ways that we can share our gift, and there are so many ways that we can chase our dreams. And so there is an element of. And I think sometimes we get caught in this as we get really rigid about how sharing our gift or chasing our dream is supposed to look like it's the. I need to be on Broadway in six months or I'm done. Right?

D (26:13)

Yeah.

C (26:14)

As opposed to I have a goal to be on Broadway in six months. And there are so many ways to share my gifts, and there's so many timelines that can get me there, and there's so many opportunities and so kind of that committed but open combination that can.

D (26:30)

Yeah, and there's. There's so many ways to be creative these days. It's like, you don't have to go on backstage and say, hey, I want to figure out how to. You know, I didn't have an agent when I moved to New York, and everybody was like, oh, you're going to New York with. Without an agent, you'll never make it. And it was like, well, okay. And I went anyway, and I. I followed my heart. And I think that's some of the best advice that I've been given, is follow your gut. It will never lead you astray. If something doesn't feel good to you, say no. If something feels really good, you'll always know that it was the right decision. If you followed, like, your intuition, you know, even if it doesn't turn out great, at least you followed, like, what you thought. And that's part of it, too. It's following your heart and letting go of what other people think about you.

C (27:23)

Right. And the added benefit of when you do that, you build your own confidence, because I am a firm believer that confidence is when you trust yourself firmly and boldly, and you're right. That doesn't mean that everything's gonna go perfectly or that, you know, there's gonna be. But there's something in trusting your gut that is confidence building, which then carries into the next opportunity, the next and the next. And I firmly believe going into any and every opportunity as confident as you can be, is a game changer.

D (27:54)

Also, fake it till you make it.

C (27:56)

Choose it until you become it. Choose confidence until the feeling catches up. That's like my twist on fake it till you make it. But I'm with you because it's like, hey, some.

D (28:05)

Some people ask me, what do you do? Like, I'm so nervous when I go on stage. I'm so nervous putting myself out there for an audition or just signing up for something, and I just say, well, that's okay. It's okay to be nervous. I'm nervous all the time. My hands shake all the time. My hands sweat all the time. It's about that thing of just accepting what it is. And sometimes you're just nervous, and it doesn't go away, and sometimes you can't just accept it, and you try to make it go away, and then it gets worse and all those kind of things. That's just life. And don't let that. Don't let fear stop you from being who you're meant to be.

C (28:44)

Yeah. Mandy, as we close out this episode, I meant to ask you this before we hit record, and it completely flew out of my brain, but I was going to ask if you'd be willing to sing something for us. Ideally something that maybe you sing to yourself as you're chasing a dream or going after an opportunity or feeling the nerves or something along those lines. Like, that is just sort of an uplifting thing for you that you can share with us.

D (29:14)

We begin fearless. We crawl, we walk, we run until we fall Begin again, begin again. We climb until the world puts up a wall.

C (29:25)

Perfect. Thank you.

D (29:27)

Yeah. Thank you.

C (29:29)

Oh, my gosh. Mandy, thank you for being our guest. And I know people are going to find and learn more about you. So, friends, the website is mandygonzalez.com, or you can find and follow her on Instagram. Mandy Gonzalez. Or if you find yourself in New York City, she is guest starring in the role of Norma Desmond on Broadway's upcoming Sunset Boulevard. And what that means when she's guest starring is that she is in that role on Tuesdays. So make sure if you're booking to book on Tuesdays so you can see Mandy Gonzalez live. Mandy, thank you.

D (30:03)

Thank you, Nicole. This is so great.

C (30:05)

This is my pleasure. All right, as we wrap up this episode on how to chase your dream, I want to share a quote that I found from Mandy, and that is to keep working, keep believing, and let your love for the craft guide you through every challenge. Because the journey is as beautiful as the dream itself itself. Dream chasing isn't about guarantees. It's about showing up, doing the work, and trusting yourself to figure it out as you go. It's about having the courage to go after what lights you up, even in those moments where it may feel impossible. So here's my challenge to you. Take one step toward your dream today, no matter how big or small. One action, one risk, one moment of saying yes to yourself. Because if there's anything I've learned, it's that dreams don't chase us. We get to chase them. And you know what I'm gonna say, don't you? Dream chasing is abso fucking lutely woman's work.

A (31:05)

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