← This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
How To Know When It’s Time to Quit with Goli Kalkhoran | 266
00:34:24
Join Nicole Kalil and life coach Goli Kalkhoran as they discuss how to know when it’s time to quit, why quitting can be a brave and smart move, and how to trust yourself to pivot toward a more fulfilling life and career.
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- [00:00]
A
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- [01:26]
C
I am Nicole Khalil and I bet there's something or someone in your life that you've been thinking about quitting. As is the case always, you are not alone. Because me too friend. Me too. I've already thought about quitting something today and it's only 8:50 in the morning as I write this introduction, so clearly I've either had too much or not nearly enough coffee. Hard to say which at this point. And I bet you, like me, have heard all of the never give up mantras like quitting is for losers, winners never quit if you quit once it becomes a habit, and blah blah blah. And while there's definitely some wisdom there, and times where that's great advice, it's not exactly gospel. Because sometimes quitting isn't just the right thing. It's the only thing that makes any kind of sense at all. There are absolutely times and situations where quitting is for winners, where you need to know when to throw in the towel, and where it's necessary to quit one thing to make space, time or opportunity for something else, something better, bigger or healthier. Which brings me to the question I bet we all struggle with. How do we know the difference? How do we know when it's time to quit instead of just try harder? How do we know if we're bailing too soon or clinging to something that's run its course in some cases for me, it can feel or seem obvious. If for frustration, sadness or disappointment are the norm and joy is just a rare bonus, then it's probably time to cut my losses. But there are also times, like today, when I catch myself wanting to quit something that I actually love, like this podcast. And that's when I know it's not really quitting time. It's more likely that I just need a fricking break or I've said yes to way too much and everything, yes, even the good stuff, even the stuff that I love starts to feel heavy. But mostly outside of maybe those obvious or extreme situations, it's all one big mindfuck. Right? Which is exactly why I invited Goli Kalkaran to be our guest on the show. Goli is a master certified life coach and former attorney who helps unfulfilled professionals create careers and lives they actually like. She's the host of the Lessons From a Quitter podcast where she destigmatizes quitting and gives people the tools and inspiration to pivot towards something more intentional, fulfilling, and aligned. Goalie, I can't wait to hear your thoughts and expertise on the topic. So I'm gonna kick us off by asking the question that I think we're all here for, and that is how do we know when it's time to quit versus when it's time to simply work harder or try to make something work?
- [04:13]
D
I love that question. And I think it's kind of the age, you know, I think it's the million dollar question. I know we always want, like, just the right answer and we want someone to tell us or we want to know. We want to have this, like, lightning bolt. Unfortunately, it's usually not that simple. But I will give you how I think about when it's time to quit, when it's time to quit, and how I want people to sort of shift how they think about it. I think what happens a lot right now when we're making a really, especially a big life decision, even small decisions, but when, especially if you're at a crossroads or you're going to do something that's going to have, you know, a lot of repercussions from it, you're going to leave a relationship, you're going to quit a job, you're going to do something that's going to, you know, cause some ripple effects in your life. What a lot of us get stuck in or what we try to figure out is like, how is it going to turn out? How Do I know which one's the right decision? How do I know if I'm going to be successful in this or if, you know, if I leave this relationship, I'm going to find a better one, or if I leave this job, the next one is going to be the right thing. And that's an impossible question to answer because none of us know how anything's going to turn out and none of us have the certainty of what's going to happen next. And so I think a lot of people end up staying stuck or staying longer when they should have quit a long time ago because they're sort of asking the wrong side of the equation. They're asking what happens afterwards. And not to say that you can't think about obviously like the long term plan or where you want to go. But I think we're waiting for that sort of quote unquote, right answer to show itself to know whether we should quit or not. What we can know is sort of what comes before the decision. And so to answer your question, how you know it's right, I always tell people, look at the reasons why you're quitting. That will tell you so much more. So if the reasons are, you know, or whether, let's say your reason to stay, maybe your reason to stay is simply because I don't want people to judge me. I don't want to leave this relationship. Cause I don't want everyone else to think that I, you know, I'm a failure or I don't want my, you know, everyone to be upset with me and I don't want. That might not be the best reason to stay in something that's making you miserable, you know, or if, let's say it's because you're scared, I'm scared of trying something new. And what if I fail and I don't want to fail and stuff again, maybe you're going after your growth and letting yourself fail and trying things and stuff. Maybe that is the best reason for you to go after this, you know, quit this job or quit the thing you don't want to do and try something else. Oftentimes when you look at like why you're doing it, what is driving you, like when you said, you know, with the podcast, obviously, like oftentimes when you realize the reason I want to quit right now is because I'm just exhausted. It's not because I don't love it. It's not because I don't want to grow it. It's not because I don't have this motivation anymore. I'm just tired. Okay? That may not be the best reason to quit something, right? It may be like, I need a nap. I need to give it a week of a break or something. And I think a lot of times when I see people quit, oftentimes when you, like, sort of reach a breaking point, we sort of put it off, put it off, put off. And then we quit because we're burned out. Or we quit because our imposter syndrome is so big, it's so uncomfortable that I'm like, I can't do this job anymore. This feels too scary, or, I don't want to be seen, so I'm going to quit. Those may not be the best reasons for you to quit. That's not actually something you don't want to do. It's just simply that it feels too uncomfortable or it's maybe too big for you or whatnot. And you got to figure out another way to deal with that, whether that's mindset work or, you know, whatever rest or whatever it might be when you get really in the weeds, when you really dig deep of, like, why am I doing this? What is my motivation for wanting to leave? This so much more becomes clear. Oftentimes it is. It becomes very clear of, like, no, I. This has just run its course. I'm leaving because there's no more growth for me here. There's nothing that I actually like here anymore. Like, that could be a great reason if you're like, I. I'm just, this chapter is done and I want something more, and I can't grow here anymore. And for my own growth and for my own, like, you know, betterment, I'm going to go on. So I know I just rambled on for a long time, but I always. Again, it isn't a simple answer because you have to kind of do that digging that self, you know, in the introspection that, like, mining within yourself of what is driving me to want to quit and do I like those reasons. I think about this every time. I quit things all the time. I'm telling you, I'm like a master quitter at this point, and I've gotten better at this. But I really want to know, like, you know, what is the thing that's driving me to do this? And once I get to know that, then it becomes so much easier for me to realize, like, oh, I'm just running away from myself, or I'm hiding from this thing I don't want to deal with, or like, no, we're complete. This is Good. We're ready to move on.
- [08:29]
C
So this may sound simple, but it is so powerful. Like, as you were talking, I mean, I've written down so many notes, my brain was going a mile a minute because there were so many good things in there. So first, I do think we often want that crystal ball, right? We want to know what is the best answer based on the outcome, as opposed to really understanding that the best answer is based on. On the current set of information, data, feelings, all that we have, because we cannot know what it's going to look like down the road. And as you said, that's not to say to not think ahead at all, but just this letting go of this idea that there is one right, best answer that has this perfect outcome and anything else is going to be devastating. So that is brilliant point number one. Anything to add to that before I go on to brilliant point number two?
- [09:25]
D
I think one of the biggest things that we as a society have to sort of work on and I. We've talked about, it's now getting talked about more. But society created the standard that, like, longevity is the only measure of success. So the longer you do something, the more success. It doesn't matter if you're miserable, it doesn't matter if you're depressed, it doesn't matter if you hate it. Like, you know, if you've been married for 25 years, that's a success. Even if you guys hate each other. Like, it's a really absurd standard that we've just randomly created. So whether it's with jobs or relationships or whatnot, and I think a lot of us, we sort of go after things thinking about again, like, the ultimate success. Like, if I get there, once I get there, I'll be happy once I. Is this job gonna be the thing that I'm going to get to? And one of the biggest things that I try to work on my. With my clients on is shifting away from this, like, destination addiction of like, I need to get there to be happy versus the journey, right? And I know it sounds so cliche, but it's like that is all life is, is going to be this journey. It's going to be ups and downs. And so when people even look for this crystal ball, like, it's so absurd when you think about it, you're like, it's so absurd. There's no one place where you're all of a sudden, like, everything's going to work out. You never have problems, there's no stress. You're going to love all aspects of it. Like, that just doesn't work in anything. And so when you learn to put that aside and you realize, like, it's going to be ups and downs, it's going to be failures and successes, like, which journey do I want to go on? How do I want to grow? You know, when I'm looking at this for this crystal ball instead, like, looking at, like, where is my biggest growth? What is the. The. What is going to be the funnest ride? Whatever. Like, when you look at more of the journey of, like, what am I going to experience? That need for this certainty of, like, getting to some destination that's going to all of a sudden, you know, be rainbows and butterflies that just doesn't exist, it becomes easier to even, like, see that prediction. Like, okay, I don't know how this job exactly is going to go, but I do know that I'm gonna learn a lot and I'm gonna grow a lot. I'm gonna get a lot of skills from this and I'm gonna make a lot of connections and I'm gonna know and like, so that is the right step for me, regardless of how it turns out.
- [11:20]
C
Beautifully said. It reminds me of when I was a kid. There was a book that I read where it was like, you got to pick at the end of each chapter something that took you to a different chapter. And I think a lot of times we operate in life as if we just make the right decision at the end of each chapter, we're somehow gonna create this only positive, as you said, butterflies and sunshine and rainbows experience. But that doesn't exist. There is no possibility for that. And part of the joy and part of purpose and part of passion, and all the things that make a life worth living stem from, come from the challenging, the hard, the trauma, the things we have overcome. It's so necessary, and yet we still spend so much time trying to avoid it. And it hurts my heart. And I know that it sucks when you're in it. So I'm not, like, trying to say we can make those things feel good, but it's just understanding that there is purpose for all of this. Now, I want to talk about brilliant point number two, because it's going to be, no matter what you say from this point forward, going to make this whole episode worth every second for me. Which is the asking yourself the reasons why you're even considering quitting. I mean, that's all the real information and probably best clues that we can get as you were going through it. Yes. Like using the I wanna quit. This podcast this morning as an example. I didn't even really entertain that for a hot second because I know I'm just tired, right? Like, I know I'm just on the tail end of, you know, saying yes to too many things. I know where that's coming from. But when you look at something and you go, the reason I'm thinking about quitting is because it's soul crushing. Because I don't like myself anymore when I'm doing it or when I'm with that person, or because it's been a fricking year since I've felt any sort of joy or happiness or because I hate doing it, or I've stopped feeling proud. Like, those are real compelling reasons to absolutely quit something or at the very least, seriously consider it.
- [13:36]
D
Yeah.
- [13:37]
C
Versus, oh, I'm going through a hard patch, or I'm a little tired, or that person pissed me off today, or I'm feeling reactive, or. I mean, there's so many millions of reasons.
- [13:48]
D
And I will say really quickly, too. Let me just interject with that is, like, also for women, one of the most, you know, powerful things that we can do, that we have to do, that we have to unlearn is, like, women have, for all of our existence, basically been denied any, like, desire or wants. Like, your wants don't matter, your needs don't matter, everybody else's do. And, like, you have to do the right thing, and you have to be everything to everybody. And so one of the most powerful reasons is. Might simply be because I want it. Because for so many of us, we never let ourselves want something. We never let ourselves, like, really tap in to be, like, maybe it's not the smartest decision, or, you know, everyone in my family doesn't want it, or, you know, not everyone's going to, whatever. But, like, even having the reason of, like, because I want to go after this, or I want to start this business, or I want to try, you know, this out. And I think, like, it doesn't necessarily always have to be something that makes sense to everybody. But even for. I think it's so important for women to learn to, like, admit to themselves what they want and, like, admit to themselves what their own desires are and let those come up. And so that might even be the reason that it's just simply that I desire this thing that I've suppressed for so long because I was told it's not realistic or it's not, you know, you can't do that or whatnot. And so I just say that, say, like, when you, when you start really going through these reasons, so much can come out of it. So much of like that you didn't even realize was within you because you've just been taught to suppress it for so long. And you learn so much just in that introspection of like looking at like, oh, I just want this because I'm allowed to want this.
- [15:23]
B
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- [16:24]
A
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- [16:36]
D
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- [17:10]
C
Thank you for saying that, because desire and passion are good enough reasons to do just about anything. And you're right. We've been socialized to be others focused and so sometimes it can be hard to even pay attention to our own desires and needs in the face of everyone else's. So I think one thing that is going to be dramatically important for anybody is to reframe quitting thinking about it in a different way. Because as you said earlier, a lot of us look at it as failure or giving up or not being good enough to make something work, or we have a tendency, I think, to put a pretty negative spin on it. So how do we think about it in a different way?
- [18:00]
D
Yeah, that's the reason I named the podcast that. Obviously it's tongue in cheek, but I really wanted to, like, change the connotation because I think it's so absurd that we have a negative connotation because the reality is everyone is constantly quitting things. Like, it's simply like just a decision tree. Once you decide one thing, you are quitting something else. Always. Right? And that's okay because that's the only way to make any progress. Like, you have to let something go. Some things go. And I think we are even mistaken to think, like, if I stick to something, that means I'm not. I'm sticking to it. I'm not quitting. Well, you're quitting a lot of other things. Like, if you're sticking in a job that you hate, you're quitting your dreams, you're quitting the possibility of a different life. Right? It's. There's always a give and take. And part of that we honestly do have to get better at the loss of, like, okay, that opportunity. Like, when I decide to become a mother, I quit the possibility of being a, you know, single motherless child that can travel the world whenever I want, let's say. Like, there's certain things I have to give up in order to take on something else. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that for some reason, we don't want to admit that to ourselves. And so we want to believe that, like, these decisions we're making, like, makes me a quote unquote winner. You can. I just choose to think of myself as a winner regardless of what I do. And so I think the idea, like, you know, even that saying, like, winners never quit, I think winners quit and they quit very quickly. They just quickly understand. Like, if you look at, let's look at like, really successful people, you look at, like entrepreneurs, you look at people in tech, in startups, all of startup culture is how quickly can you iterate? Which means how quickly can you quit? How quickly can you think, like, this isn't working, how do we change this? How do we add that? And as you keep doing it, you build something more and more powerful. I think of that, like, with your life. I think, like, for all of us, there is no, like, oh, everyone knows this is my one North Star and I'm gonna like you said, like a straight path up all of the way to, towards it. I think as your life continues and as you grow and as you change and as you evolve, you're constantly iterating. You're like, I'm gonna try this. Okay, this isn't exactly what I want. I wanna pivot a little bit. Like, I actually want. This fulfills me more and I keep quitting things and it slowly kind of takes me towards what is the most aligned for me, what is the most true for me, what I most love. And I will lastly say, like, it's so absurd for me to think that, like, we were taught that at 18, you pick something and you, you're never going to change. You're going to be the same person you are at 18 or 22, as you are in your 30s, as you are in your 40s, as you are in your 50s, regardless of everything you've gone in your life. Right? When you think about it, like, that's like, yes, society was set up like that because it, it benefited society for us to like, become an expert in one trade. But that doesn't mean that's how humans are naturally wired. You are supposed to change, you are supposed to grow, right? Like, hopefully you don't think and act the way you did in your 20s when you're in your 50s. Like, hopefully there's enough lives, right? Yeah, exactly. Like, imagine if we were like, no, you know, when you can only hang out with the people you hung out with when you were 18, you can only eat at the places that you like. You chose that. You got to stick with it for the rest of your life. It's like, it's an absurd thing. And so I think this whole concept of quitting is simply just. You can call it whatever you want, you can call it evolution, you can be evolving, pivoting. But I choose to call it quitting because I do want to change that. Because there's nothing wrong with saying like that no longer serves me. That chapter is done. I've now grown. Hopefully I can learn to change my mind sometimes instead of just digging my heels in and like, sticking with things just because I chose it at one point. And like, I'm now choosing something new and I'm gonna keep choosing something new. And so for me, honestly, learning to quit, and I was someone that stuck with things, even when I was miserable, even when it was very clear it wasn't for me, it has been the most liberating concept in my life because so much is possible in my life. I'M like, I'm gonna live for, you know, hopefully another 40, 50 years if I had to only do the things I'm doing right now. And I was never allowed to try anything else because I didn't wanna be a quitter. Like, how small of a life would that be for me, you know? Like, now it's like, there's so much open because I'm like, yeah, that was great. Chapter's over. We're ready to quit. Try something else. I think it just, like, can be a very liberating force when you take that word on in a different way.
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C
Absolutely. And, you know, it reminds me of somebody told me once, when you say yes to one thing, you're always saying no to something else.
- [22:14]
D
Always.
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C
Whether it's conscious or unconscious. And I have noticed a pattern we've talked about already. Sometimes I say yes to things, and the thing I unconsciously or inadvertently end up saying no to is something that matters to only me, whether it's my rest or my peace or my desire or my want. I think it's just so important to say that out loud. Often is. We are always quitting something. And more often than not, our opportunity isn't to not quit, it's to quit faster. Like, I think of a conversation I had with a younger woman who I work, who I coach, and she was talking about this relationship. It was kind of messing with her head, and, like, she was distracted, basically. And I was like, wait, time out. How long have you been dating this guy? Cause I'd never heard of her talk about him before. And she's like, it's been about nine weeks. And I'm not laughing because it's nine weeks. I'm laughing because, like, my response was, friend, you need to learn how to break up faster.
- [23:19]
D
Yeah, totally.
- [23:20]
C
Like, this isn't serving you nine weeks in. This isn't. Because she was like, how do I try to make this work? What sacrifices do? I'm like, no, making it work. No sacrifices. It's nine weeks. You should be feeling all the joy or just fricking move on.
- [23:35]
D
No, for sure. I think a lot of us need to learn how to cut our losses much faster.
- [23:39]
C
Agreed. And I think many of the reasons why we don't is because we worry about other people's opinions. We worry about what other people's opinions mean about us.
- [23:50]
D
Yep.
- [23:51]
C
So that leads me into this next question is how do we handle or overcome or ignore or let go of the people in our life who don't support us quitting or the. So let Me Start there. If you have people in your life who don't support your choice to quit. Any advice?
- [24:12]
D
Yes. So much advice. Oh, my God, this is my favorite topic. Here's the thing. Everybody, most people, even if they have judgments, people in your life, hopefully it does come from a place of love. They are also programmed in the same society that is very fearful, and they want to protect you. And they think their way of protecting you is, like, because they're scared if you're going to quit your job, you might regret it. Or if you're going to leave this relationship, you might regret it. They're putting their fears on you, okay. And you have to decide whether you want to take that on. And I think that my first piece of advice for a lot of people is, like, when you're talking to people, you have to sort of really. You have to be really clear of, like, what am I asking from them? Why am I talking to them about this? Is it because I want their support or is it because I want their permission? I want them to tell me it's okay. And oftentimes they're not going to be that person for you, and that's okay. You need to know that, like, I know when I wanted to start my podcast, I'd already started another business. I just had a baby. Wasn't like, on paper, it was not the right time to start a podcast and start a completely new business. I knew my husband wouldn't get it because it's not his dream. It wasn't. He didn't even. He wasn't on social media. He didn't even know what podcasting was. And when I was going to go, I talked to him a couple times. I felt it out, and I knew his response was going to be like, you have way too much on your plate. Like, why would you start that now?
- [25:21]
C
You know?
- [25:22]
D
And I had this calling to do this so deeply for so many years, and I was like, I. I feel like I'm going to burst if I don't start this podcast. And I remember when I had the conversation with him, I told him, I was like, listen, I'm going to tell you something. And I know you're afraid for me. I just need your support here. I don't need you to understand. I don't need you to, like, you know, explain to me. I know all of the pitfalls. I'm just telling you what I need from you. And he was like, okay, I'll support you, whatever you need. Like, as long as you know what you're Getting yourself into. So I say that in the sense of. I think a lot of times we go to people and then we get bummed because we want them to be like, oh, my God, this is so great. And they don't get it. They don't see the video vision. It's not their vision, it's yours. Right? And so you have to really understand, like, am I asking them for permission? Because I don't need their permission to do it. They can think that it's a bad idea. And I get to still decide because I'm the one that lives with the consequences of what I'm doing. They don't have to live with that. Right. So I think that's one. The other thing I will say is that whatever we get defensive or when we. When people give us their. What we're afraid of, the judgments of other people is because we also have that fear, that insecurity. Right? I give this example, like, if you went to your family or friends and they were like, I really think, Nicole, you should dye your hair blue. Like, I don't know why you keep this color. You should dye your hair blue. Like, you wouldn't be up in arms about that, because you've probably never had that thought that, like, I pro. I should have blue hair. You know, you'd be like, okay, thanks for the advice. No, like, I'm good. You know, because it's not an insecurity you have when you're trying to do something like quitting. Like, you already have the fear of, like, it might not work. Maybe I'm rushing into this. I might regret this. So then when someone else brings it up, it triggers your own defense because you're sort of trying to explain it. You're justifying it to yourself, which is the same reason you want their permission. Like, if they say it's okay, then you can feel a little bit better about it. So the secret here is not to get everybody to agree with you. It's to get you to understand why you're doing it. Right. The more you solidify your own beliefs and your own insecurities, like, deal with your own thoughts about what you want to do it, the more unflappable you become. When other people give their insecurities, you're like, yeah, I know it's dangerous. I know it might fail. I still going to do it. Like, this is still my growth, right? Then other people are going to put stuff. And it's so funny how their judgment doesn't matter as much. Like, the more I work on my own beliefs about what I want and why I'm doing it, the less I care what other people think. And I think for a lot of us, like, we go around trying to change what other people think, that's a fool's errand. You're never going to do that. So you. But you can change what you think about it. And so I would focus my energy there.
- [27:47]
C
I know I'm going to. I'm sure many of our listeners are going to rewind that and just listen to it several times. I feel like any time, because we do, we fish for unconsciously permission or support or validation for what it is that we know we want to do. And you're exactly right. They're poking into already existing fears or insecurities or it wouldn't bother us. Like, I often think when people give me feedback about something that doesn't feel true or real for me or isn't. Like, if somebody is like, you know what, you're a really big flake, I'd be like, thanks for your opinion. Move on. Because I'm like, totally one of the most committed people you're ever going to meet. Like, it's just not who I am. But if somebody pokes in on something, like, hey, you're too opinionated or you can be a real jerk sometimes. Yeah, it pokes something because it's are an already existing fear or insecurity. And I am the only person who gets to decide what to do from there and has to live with the consequences of it. And so it's taking the information in but not letting it own you or wearing it as if it's the end all, be all.
- [29:05]
D
Totally. And I think it's, again, it can be a really beautiful arrow. Like you said to your own insecurity. I feel the same way. It's like if somebody was like, oh, you're so, you know, you're such a wallflower. You're so quiet. Like, what are you talking? The loudest person here, right? They said you're too loud. Why do you talk so much? Like, yeah, I would likely be like, I do because I have that, like, maybe I'm being too much, you know? So I think, like, but when people say that and you feel something, it's a really good place to be. Like, huh, I have a big insecurity about this. And then I get to decide what I do with that. It's not to say that, like, you're always going to have insecurities. I know for me, a lot of the way that I deal with it is like, well, yeah, of course. Like, everybody has strengths and weaknesses. Everybody has things like blind spots. And, like, this might be one of mine. Like, I'm a flawed human just like everybody else. And so maybe I want to work on it. Maybe I just want to accept it. Like, I'm just going to be a loud person. Like, that's the person I am. And it's going to be annoying to some people. And I totally get that. And not everyone has to love me, but this is who I am. Right. I get to decide what I want to do with it. But I do think a lot of times I'm like, when I see someone's judgment and it stings, I'm always like, ooh, what's there? Like that. Yeah, I have that thought, too. This person kind of nailed something I didn't even know I had in me. And, like, that shows me where I need to work instead of, like, how dare they think that of me? Yeah.
- [30:17]
C
Well, and a quote for you and for me and for many of our listeners I'm sure that I'm literally staring at right now says, you will be too much for some people. Those aren't your people. Right. And it's just that reminder of we're not meant for all things and all people and all things and all people aren't meant for us. And to your earlier point, like, quitting things faster so that we can get closer to what really matters and what we're really meant for and who we're really meant for, I think is such a huge opportunity now. Goalie, this 30 minutes is going by way too fast. I have one question I have to ask you because it's the one area that I can think of where I do see people maybe quit too soon, and that's in entrepreneurship.
- [31:02]
D
Yeah.
- [31:03]
C
This idea that we want to build or create something on our own that didn't exist before, and it's hard and it's challenging, and you're figuring things out as you go and you fail often and you feel like you could feel like everything's a sign for you to stop. And yet I do think that some an area where we often let other people's opinions or we give up on what we want and our desires a little too quickly. Any thoughts about quitting and entrepreneurship?
- [31:37]
D
Yes. Not just entrepreneurship, but one of the things I do do whenever I set goals, like, and I do like our goals with my group, is that I do a lot of mindset work and I talk a lot. I help a lot of people with, like, the craziness that happens in your brain. And the thing is, is that like, your brain wants to keep you safe. So whenever you're doing something scary, it's going to be very loud for a long time. And so a lot of what I do is like, know the reasons why you want to start something, but then I always, like, give myself an amount of time where I have to stick to it. So if I start. When I started the podcast, I told myself, come hell or high water, you're doing this for a year, every week, you know, because I knew my brain, otherwise I would spend so much energy on like, is it working? Are people listening? I should probably quit. It's not, you know, whatever, all this stuff. And it's like, I won't even know. I don't have enough data. So, like, before I even start, I'm going to do this for a year. And this goes back to when I was talking about when you make a decision based on the journey. When I started got really clear of like, what I was going to gain. Regardless of that, the podcast never went anywhere after the year. I never made a dime from it or whatever. I knew like, how much I was going to grow, how much I was going to deal with my fear of being seen and people judging me and all this stuff. And so it became really clear, like, that's why I was doing it. And so it was like. And there was many times in that first year, I mean, there's been many times in the five years that I've wanted to quit it, you know, but it was like, no, we committed to this. So I do think there's a time, especially for entrepreneurship where you cannot make willy nilly decisions like every other day. I want to quit it all the time because it's so hard. You have to give yourself like a structure of like, I'm going to do this for a year and I'm going to go all in for a year and it's going to suck and there's going to be tons of failures and I'm going to learn a lot. And how, like, really, when you get to like, why is this the best journey for me? How am I going to grow from this? Regardless of if it's not the destination, it's not like it only works if I made a lot of money. I'm going to learn a lot and maybe, you know, that'll help me on my next business or whatnot. But I do think, like, not giving your brain the out all the time is a good thing. When you like, let yourself, like, in a short term goal of like six months, a year. I'm gonna, even if it's a new job, it's like, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna stay here and I'm gonna learn and I'm gonna network and I'm gonna. And then I can make that decision again. Because it is too hard to constantly be like, well, like, in this decision tree every day. Am I gonna do this? Am I not? Like, you're spending so much energy as opposed to just kind of being all in for the short term and then reevaluating and then reevaluating and doing it like that.
- [33:52]
C
Excellent advice. Speaks completely to my experience. I did the same thing, by the way, with my podcast. I'm going to do it for a year, see what happens, see if I love it, see if it brings me joy, you know, like, and I had certain things that would make it obvious decision for myself. What I would also add is I have made it a habit of communicating some of those time frames to people whose opinions matter to me or who I might likely go to on the hard days. Because entrepreneurship is hard, launching a podcast is hard. And there are shitty days where you're going to go to somebody and complain about those shitty days, and somebody who loves you, especially if they have a high amount of empathy, are going to be like, oh, this sounds really hard. Maybe you shouldn't put yourself through this or whatever. And it's like, I had to say to a few people, I'm committing to a year. I'm not quitting for a year. Do not let me quit for a year. Like, if I come to you, be my sounding board, whatever, but do not freaking let me quit.
- [34:50]
D
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, really with anything, but especially entrepreneurship, I think accountability in reaching any goal is important. Like, we typically do tend to keep our word to other people more than we do to ourselves. And so I think that, that when you can kind of learn, how am I going to set myself up to make sure I stick to it? That is one of the ways to do it. And not just entrepreneurship is so hard and it can be so lonely. Like, you really should be in community with other people that are doing it, that understand how hard it is that you can bounce ideas off that you can have your bad days with. So I love that. Like, to have, you know, kind of that out there and be like, listen, we all know it's going to happen, and when it does, do not let me quit.
- [35:29]
C
Yeah, Goalie. I'm actually upset that we're out of time.
- [35:34]
D
You and me both.
- [35:36]
C
But for the listener, if you want, and I know you do, more information about goalie's work. LessonsFromAquitter.com is the website. It's also the name of the podcast. And if you go on her website, there's a free masterclass on quitting, which I know I'm taking and I'm going to recommend for you too. So again, it's lessonsfromaquitter.com we'll put that link and all the others in show notes. Goalie, thank you for such an important and compelling conversation.
- [36:05]
D
Thank you so much, Nicole, for having me. This was such a blast.
- [36:08]
C
My pleasure. Okay, so here's what I hope you take away from today. Quitting is not the opposite of perseverance. It's the companion to clarity. Because sometimes the bravest thing you can do is throw in the towel. Not because you're weak, but because you're smart enough to say, stop pouring yourself into things that don't serve you. There is power in choosing to stop, reset and pivot. That's not losing. That's winning on your own terms. And look, life is complicated. Not every decision to quit or to stick it out is going to feel easy or obvious. Sometimes it'll be messy, and sometimes people won't understand. But here's the truth. You don't owe the peanut gallery an explanation for the choices that you make. This is about trusting yourself. Trusting yourself with your own time, energy and happiness. And the sooner we can trust ourselves with that, the sooner we prioritize having that kind of respect with and for ourselves, the closer we'll get to the life, the relationships, the career, and the experiences that we truly want. Quitting and staying both matter, but knowing when to do which. Well, that is woman's work.
- [37:25]
A
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