Invite the Tiger to Tea: How to Turn Stress Into Strength with Dr. Rebecca Heiss | 340

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
Episode: Invite the Tiger to Tea: How to Turn Stress Into Strength with Dr. Rebecca Heiss | 340
Date: September 1, 2025
Host: Nicole Kalil
Guest: Dr. Rebecca Heiss, Stress Physiologist, Speaker, and Author

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Overview

This episode challenges the conventional wisdom that stress is inherently bad and should be eradicated. Nicole Kalil and Dr. Rebecca Heiss invite listeners, especially women, to radically reframe stress: not as a sign of weakness, failure, or something to be managed away, but as a source of energy, motivation, and meaning. Dr. Heiss brings science, humor, and actionable tools to the conversation, exploring how to “invite the tiger to tea”—that is, make peace with stress and turn it into strength.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The "Effortless Overwhelm Paradox" and Stress as a Badge (00:53–03:41)

• Nicole sets the stage by highlighting how women often juggle countless tasks and feel compelled to handle stress without showing it—a phenomenon she calls the "effortless overwhelm paradox."
  • “The more stressed we are, the more we try to look calm, collected and glowy. Like we just stepped out of a meditation retreat.” —Nicole (01:26)
• The culture of "busyness" and pretending to have it all together increases the pressure and stigma around stress.

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Flipping the Script: Stress as Energy, Not the Enemy (03:41–05:27)

• Dr. Heiss explains her view of stress as energy, comparing it to oxygen: necessary, sometimes harmful, but essential for survival.
  • “Stress isn't good. It isn't bad. It just is energy. It's our body preparing us to meet a moment and with the right mindset we have the opportunity to use it differently rather than to fight against it.” —Dr. Rebecca Heiss (04:00)
• Fighting stress only worsens it and perpetuates the “self-help paradox.”
• “My job, I like to think of myself as a PR agent for stress.” —Dr. Rebecca Heiss (04:19)

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The 3-Step Approach: “Invite the Tiger to Tea” (06:22–17:30)

Step 1: Allow 3 Minutes of Full Stress (“Screaming Terror”) (06:22–08:49)

• Inspired by Robert Sapolsky’s research, honor your biological stress response by letting yourself fully acknowledge and feel the stress for three minutes.
• Techniques: journaling, movement, calling a friend, expressing the emotion.
• “Invite the tiger in for tea. Have a cup of tea with it.” —Dr. Rebecca Heiss (07:27)
• “You can't actually control how heightened you get. That is outside of your control.” —Dr. Heiss (10:13)

Step 2: Reframe with Curiosity—“Choose It Until You Become It” (09:08–13:20)

• After releasing the initial energy, consciously choose how to interpret your stress: excitement, opportunity, adventure.
  • “Curiosity and fear cannot coexist.” —Dr. Heiss (13:20)
• Use your body (e.g., posture, smiling) to signal to your brain that the stress is excitement rather than fear.
  • “We smile because we're happy? Nope. We actually get happy when we smile.” —Dr. Heiss (11:10)
• “Choose it till you become it.” —Nicole (12:33)

Step 3: Take Action—Move Towards the Stressor & Seek Community (13:21–18:17)

• Don’t avoid stress, take a small step towards what’s causing it (“toward the roar”). Like bison running directly into a snowstorm.
• Service to others—not self-care rituals—is shown to be the most effective intervention for stress reduction.
  • “The only intervention that actually helps mitigate our stress in that trajectory is service to others. Full stop.” —Dr. Heiss (17:01)
• Community, connection, and “well-made people” (emotionally supportive) are crucial to healthy stress navigation.

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The Paradox: Women, Service, and Stress (18:58–23:03)

• Nicole raises a concern: Women are socialized to be others-focused, often to their detriment. How can “helping others” be a solution if it’s also a source of toxic stress?
• Dr. Heiss clarifies:
  • The most meaningful lives are highly correlated with high levels of stress—past, present, and even future worries.
    • “The number one correlate to a meaningful, purposeful life is stress.” —Dr. Heiss (20:07)
  • The important distinction: act “in alignment with what matters most to you.” Service or action should feel authentic, not obligatory.
    • “This is not me asking you to give more. I want you to give to yourself in a meaningful and purposeful way.” —Dr. Heiss (22:04)

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Playing Sick: The Cost of Inaction & Regret (23:14–25:27)

• Dr. Heiss shares her childhood experience of “playing sick” to avoid performance anxiety—an allegory for how women often hold themselves back to control outcomes and avoid disappointment.
  • “Most of us spend most of our lives, if we're not careful, playing sick because we're trying to control the outcome.” —Dr. Heiss (24:07)
• The real cost is not in trying and failing, but in not trying—regrets for what we didn’t do.

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The Stress Mindset Study: Beliefs Shape Outcomes (25:33–27:58)

• Dr. Heiss cites a study of 30,000 Americans: high-stress individuals who believed stress was bad had 43% higher mortality. Those with high stress but a positive (or neutral) view of stress had the lowest mortality—even lower than those with no stress.
  • “People with that same very high level of stress who believed that stress wasn't bad for their health had the lowest mortality rates of the entire study.” —Dr. Heiss (27:33)
• The message: Our beliefs about stress are often more dangerous than stress itself.

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Practical Application & “Starting Small” (28:21–30:03)

• Catch yourself in the “I’m so stressed out” moment and pause—ask, “What does this mean? Can I use it differently?”
• Use small, self-serving actions to move energy in a positive direction. Self-care sets you up to serve others better.
  • “Just recognizing that when you catch yourself saying, ugh, I'm so stressed out, go pause. What does that mean? Can I use it differently?” —Dr. Heiss (29:24)
• Use your body and choose your narrative, then get into supportive action.

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The Contagion of Energy & Importance of Community (30:03–33:16)

• “Humans are contagious—energetically contagious, emotionally contagious... When I see you and you look at me and you're smiling… I get your energy and I get this excitement from you.” —Dr. Heiss (30:32)
• Who you surround yourself with deeply matters; community is central to stress transformation, and may be a “competitive advantage” for women.
• Supportive environments—whether a basketball league, a friend group, or family—offer space to both release and reframe stress.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Stress isn't the villain, but a misunderstood character in our story—the one that, when used properly, helps us get shit done.” —Nicole (02:40)
• “You can't survive without oxygen. It is the reason we age… but you need it. And the same thing is true about stress.” —Dr. Heiss (04:00)
• “Curiosity and fear cannot coexist.” —Dr. Heiss (13:20)
• “The only people who have no stress are dead people.” —Nicole paraphrasing Dr. Heiss (25:27)
• “Pressure is privilege. Stress is privilege.” —Dr. Heiss, quoting Billie Jean King (26:03)
• “Invite the tiger in for tea. Have a cup of tea with it.” —Dr. Heiss (07:27)
• “Just recognizing that when you catch yourself saying, ugh, I'm so stressed out, go pause. What does that mean? Can I use it differently?” —Dr. Heiss (29:24)
• “Your story is my story…we may not be having the same stressors, but when we help one another…we actually heal ourselves.” —Dr. Heiss (17:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:53] — The paradox of “effortless overwhelm” & introduction to stress as a topic
• [03:41] — Dr. Heiss on why fighting stress backfires; stress as energy
• [06:22] — The “invite the tiger to tea” method: 3-minute full stress
• [09:08] — Step 2: Reframing with curiosity and embodiment
• [13:20] — The science of curiosity vs. fear and taking small action
• [17:01] — Service to others as the only statistically-supported intervention
• [20:07] — The correlation between a meaningful life and high stress
• [23:14] — “Playing sick”: The cost of inaction
• [25:33] — Stress mindset study: beliefs shape mortality outcomes
• [28:21] — Practical advice: start small, pause, and reinterpret stress
• [30:03] — Contagion of emotion, the role of community
• [33:16] — Importance of women’s community organizations and support

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Conclusion

This episode reframes stress as an intrinsic, meaningful part of life that can be leveraged for growth and purpose when acknowledged, reframed, and channeled into action—especially within community. Dr. Heiss’s three-step method (“invite the tiger to tea,” reframe, act toward what matters) is both practical and science-backed. For women facing societal and self-imposed pressures, the invitation is clear: Embrace stress as a signal of caring and an opening for connection—not an enemy to be vanquished.

Final thought:
“Maybe, just maybe, stress is trying to serve us, to show us what matters, what we care about and what we're capable of. It's not about eliminating stress. It's about transforming it from enemy to energy, from too much to handle to exactly what I was built for.” —Nicole (33:53)

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[B]

I'm Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the this Is Woman's Work podcast. We're together. We're redefining what it what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And friend, let's be honest here. We can't really talk about woman's work without talking about stress. It's practically in the job description at this point. Multitasking, overachieving, expectation, juggling stress. The kind that has you answering emails while stirring dinner and managing an emotional crisis. Yours, your child, your partners, your bosses, or most likely, all of the above. We've all got stress, like taxes, menopause, and unsolicited advice. It's practically guaranteed. And we often wear our stress like a badge of honor. I'm so busy. It's just been nonstop. I haven't slept in days. But heaven forbid we actually look stressed. We're living in what I like to call the effortless overwhelm paradox. The more stressed we are, the more we try to look calm, collected and glowy. Like we just stepped out of a meditation retreat. And like we didn't just cry in the car for the last 10 minutes or eat my feelings in a pint of ice cream using a car key as my spoon. But to be fair, I've only done that once. It's a weird little game that we're playing, right? But here's the question that's been buzzing in my brain since we recorded episode 294, where Dr. Sharon Berquist introduced us to what she calls the stress paradox. And and here's the question. What if stress isn't the problem? What if stress isn't something to be eradicated or eliminated or breathed away? What if stress, and it's hard for me to say this is actually the secret sauce. What if we've been trying to get rid of the very thing that could lead us to our best ideas, our peak performance, and our most purposeful work, what if stress isn't the villain, but a misunderstood character in our story? The one that, when used properly, is helps us get shit done. So our guest today is here to turn our understanding of stress completely on its head, or at least put it back into our biology where it belongs. Dr. Rebecca Heiss is a stressed physiologist, researcher, speaker, and the author of Springboard. Transform stress to work for you. She's also the creator of the Fearless Stress Formula and is on a mission to help us turn fear into fuel and stress into strength. She's been recognized by the National Science foundation for her transformative research, and she's bringing that science along with a whole lot of energy, insight and humor straight to us today. So, Rebecca, your work is focused on stress and fear, and yet you seem to be happy and healthy, or at least you don't look like you've been recently in your car crying. So how do you do that?

[A]

I don't know your description of eating a pint of ice cream with a car key. I was like, oh, I've been there. Yeah, that's a horrible whole thing. I. Let me, let me start with that because I love that description. I think it's so powerful because we keep telling women, right, well, if you just, if you just meditate, if you just go on the yoga retreat, if you just do this, then you'll find peace. And what's happening is we're actually beginning to stress out even more trying to get rid of our stress. And it's this like, that is literally, that's what our 2024 research shows. It's insanity.

[B]

But that makes sense to me, right?

[A]

We all get this. We're like, oh my God, I have to get rid of my stress. Get rid of my stress. And this is an awes, awful cycle that we put ourselves in. And then when we don't get rid of our stress because we're trying to fight it, we actually feel worse about ourselves. We feel like we're broken. We feel like there's something wrong with us and it exacerbates this awful self help paradox that you were describing. That is just like such a broken record for us. So my job, I like to think of myself as a PR agent for stress. Right? Stress isn't good. It isn't bad. It just is energy. It's our body preparing us to meet a moment and with the right mindset we have the opportunity to use it differently rather than to fight against it, which is honestly, it's just a losing battle. Right. You're never gonna get rid of stress. It's like trying to get rid of oxygen. Like, oxygen is one of the most toxic molecules out there. But we need it, right. You can't survive without oxygen. It is the reason that we age. It's the reason we ultimately die. Most of us. Right. Oxidative damage, but you need it. And the same thing is true about stress. Like, stress isn't bad, it's just energy and we need it. And when we use it properly, when we have the right mindset about it, it actually can be enhancing. So, yeah, that's what I'm here to do.

[B]

So as you were talking, the phrase what you resist persists popped in my head. It's that trying to make it, or what we often do is we make it bad, then we try to resist it. And then as you said, we're stressed about our stress or we're stressed about managing our stress, which.

[A]

All of the above. Yeah. Yeah, all of the above.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Ye.

[B]

So I said this before we hit record. This is one of those topics where I feel like my brain is working overtime to catch up. Because I have almost 50 years of thinking about stress one way or experiencing it one way. And I believe you, and I believe your research and like my brain is working overtime assisting it to catch up. Yeah. And like really trying. So if stress is, and I love this phrase, preparing us to meet a moment, how do we interact with it in a way that is, I don't know, neutral or helpful or.

[A]

Great question, great question. So let me start by framing this because I think one of the shifts that I had was looking at Olympic athletes who break world records. Right. Not at practice, but when the pressure and the stress is at the highest. And that for me was a helpful thing. Oh, this is a reframe. So for us, instead of resisting it, I call it inviting the tiger in for tea. Right. Our stress response is built for a tiger. It's built for running away from this life threatening thing. And in the modern environment, our stress might be a t, it might be life threatening, but 99% of the time it's not. Right? It's the emails, it's the angry child, it's the managing of all the things that you just described. Right. And so instead of resisting it and trying to like push it away, which leads to worse outcomes, we invite the tiger in for tea. And what that looks like is three Minutes of screaming terror. We absolutely invite it. And just like, I can't believe this is happening. And maybe we call a friend, maybe we journal for three minutes. Maybe we punch a punching bag, maybe we do jumping jacks. But for three minutes, we allow ourselves to feel the stress. Don't deny it. Validate the feeling. Right. It's real. And when the timer dings, that's when we take a breath and we begin to transfer the energy. Okay. We begin to recognize. So we can pause there, but stop trying to avoid it. Invite the tiger for tea. Have a cup of tea with it.

[B]

Is there some reason for three minutes?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm assuming you didn't just pull that out of your ass.

[A]

So I actually steal that from Robert Sapolsky, who's a famous stress physiologist, as famous as any of us get, right? He wrote, why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. And the idea here is really, our stress response is built for three minutes of screaming terror across the savannah, right when you're getting chased by lions. And if you survive those three minutes, what zebras do is they go back to eating grass. What the lion does, if he doesn't catch. Or if she doesn't catch the. It's always a shade. Let's be clear. If she doesn't catch the prey, she doesn't lay there and go, oh, my gosh, I'm a terrible lion. I can't believe I just suck. I fail at everything. No, no, no. Only humans do that. She takes a nap. So this three minutes of screaming terror is really what our. What our stress response is built for, after which, it's our minds that continue the stress. Right? So this is a break point in our biology where we can go, okay, it's out. I've invited it in. Now what do I want to cognitively do with this?

[B]

Okay, again, brain is working overtime. So what I'm hearing is the three minutes of stress is acknowledging our biology, our natural reaction to something that feels. That we're afraid of, whether we.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Feels dangerous, but it might not be actually physically dangerous. We might not actually die. But I've heard you say this before. Our brain kind of doesn't know the difference.

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah. Our brain is totally freaked out. Yep.

[B]

So then the three minutes is natural. It's what we do after the three minutes that we're fucking up.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And most of us, right? Most of us, when we're in these moments, we do this terrible thing. We try and calm down, right? We try. We're like, okay, we're going to take some deep breaths. We're going to try and calm down. And we usually do that even before the three minutes of screaming terror. We're just like, calm down, buddy. Calm down. And I don't know if you've ever had this experience where you've told somebody that you're really stressed out about something, they look at you and they're like, oh, calm down. Like, what do you want to do to that person? Yeah, like, if you want to punch for them. Acceptable. That is exactly what we feel. And yet that's the advice we're telling ourselves. And. And here's what's so important to hear. You physiologically can't do that. It is outside of your control. I never in my life have I talked to my adrenal glands and I'm like, hey, I'll do me a favor. Don't release adrenaline. Like, they don't. It doesn't. It doesn't.

[B]

They're not interested.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you can't actually control how heightened you get. That is outside of your control. That's fine. Okay, so let go of trying to calm down. What you do get to control, and this is where the transfer of the energy comes in. You don't get to control this. This Y axis, this activation. What you do get to control is what it means. So there's something called emotional valence. Is it positive or is it negative? Is it good? Is it bad? And I really hate the label of good and bad or positive, negative. But essentially, what you're choosing here is what this means. Is it excitement? Is it anxiety? Is it anger? All of those are high emotional states. Calm is not. You don't get to choose calm. Right. But you can choose something other than stressed, anxious, fearful. You can decide, and this is important. When you decide that you're excited, that doesn't mean you switch, like, your whole brain because you're lying to yourself. Right. Your whole brain is all like, yeah, I'm just excited now. Everything's great. No, no, no, no. You're still going to feel that anxiety, and that's okay. The difference is you're going to present your body differently. And this is key because our brain is looking to our body for what all of these signals mean. So we think that we smile because we're happy. Nope. We actually get happy when we smile. When we do this, we release chemicals. We release all kinds of dopamine and happy hormones that go to our brain. And so when we throw our shoulders back and we put a smile on our face, and we open our body up to be in a space of, oh, this is an adventure. I'm excited. Our brain is looking to our body and going, oh, my gosh. Okay. This signal, I thought was fear, I thought was stressful. Maybe we're excited about something and that begins to feed that reinforcement of what you're telling your brain. Again, it does not eliminate the anxiety. This is just step two. Okay. We're just working through it. But it's really important to hear that because so often people will tell me, oh, you just get excited about everything. I'm like, no, I'm terrified all the time. All the time. But I lie to myself. I open myself up. I create this. Acting as if we're not faking till we make it. We're acting as if we're going to have an adventure and then we can move to the next step. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I call it choose it till you become it.

[A]

Oh, I love that.

[B]

Right. So instead of fake it till you make it, choose it till you become it. Because sometimes we need to do it second by second, minute by minute, until the feeling catches up. But I think so often we wait for the feeling and it doesn't work that way.

[A]

That's right. Yeah, it doesn't.

[B]

I also have to reference that there's a meme out there that says something like, never in the history of calm down has anybody ever calmed down by being told to be calmed down.

[A]

That's right. I love it. I love it. This never works out well.

[B]

Okay, so I want to gauge that I'm understanding this correctly. First is the three minute of terror. Allowing for it. Second step then is to. I'm going to just call it, reframe it, or a new narrative and use your body to help support that new narrative.

[A]

Yeah. And I'll add one more piece of that. Becoming curious about the feeling. So that's part of the openness. One of the most interesting things I think about our brain is that curiosity and fear cannot coexist. Now, I know I've said this before to people. Like, this is so important though, because, you know, for 200,000 plus years, if you had a tiger charging you, if you actually were in a life and death situation, nobody pauses to get curious. Nobody pauses and is like counting stripes. I wonder how many stripes there are. You know, I wonder how fast it's coming. So we didn't develop the ability to be curious when we're under fear. So if we can be curious, if we can begin asking questions like, what's the best thing that can happen. What will I learn? How will I grow? When we get into that mode, we're also opening not just our body, but our mind to the possibilities. And step three, Step three is really about action. So most of us try to avoid our stressors, right? We run the opposite direction. We're trying to, like, push them back. You know, we're fight, we're resisting, and therefore, it will persist. Um, instead, what I like to ask people to do is become buffaloes or become bison, right? What bison do? The number one thing that kills bison outside of humans is snowstorms. And instead of running away from the snowstorm, they run directly at it. Because the snowstorm's gonna catch you, right? Whatever that stressor is, it's going to catch you. So what's the smallest step you can take? Toward the roar, toward the tiger, towards that stressor, to get through it faster on the other side with more resources, more ability to move through it. And so the action piece is so important because we believe in this learned helplessness. And I have a whole thing I have to talk about with learned helplessness, because learned helplessness isn't learned. First of all, this is 50 years of data that show it's our innate response, our innate response to feeling like we're out of control, which is really what stress is about. And anxiety. We're out of control. We don't have agency in this moment. Our innate response is to shut down, and we go into inaction. What we can do is learn hope. And what that looks like is taking a small step to regain your agency. So what is the action that you can take? What power do you have in the moment? And how can you move in some small direction? And listen, this doesn't guarantee the outcome, but it's setting a trajectory. It's giving you an actionable thing that you can do in the moment, whatever small thing it is to move you in a direction forward. So the really interesting thing about this step is it's not about you. And this is where people get it wrong. They're like, okay, well, I'm gonna go meditate. I'm gonna go get a massage. And listen, y', all, I'm not saying don't do those things. Those are wonderful things, but they're not actually going to mitigate your stress. So this is research done on hundreds of Thousands of people. 90 different stress interventions. 0 of them work. And trust me, I was rooting hard for massage, but it didn't. It turned out not to work. The only intervention that actually helps mitigate our Stress in that trajectory is service to others. Full stop. Full stop. Especially as women who are told constantly just give to others, give to others, give to others. This can feel really threatening, I think. And when we make it less about ourselves, when the stress, when we recognize that your story is my story and my story is your story, and we may not be having the same stressors, but when we help one another, when we build together, when we allow ourselves to like reach out and help one another, we actually heal ourselves. And I think especially for women, the power of community is so important and so necessary for this. So the the last thing I'll say, and I promise I'll shut up here, but this is so exciting to me. We talk about cortisol all the time, right? Your main stress hormone, the second major stress hormone is oxytocin and that's the hormone, that's the cuddle hormone, the love hormone, the community hormone, which begs of you to get help and begs of you to help. And so your stress response is really asking you to seek community. And when we do, when we begin to do that, we take steps in a direction that allows us to heal. Lowes knows you've got a job to do and we help get it done. With the Mylo's Pro Rewards program, eligible members save more with volume discounts on quarters qualifying orders through a quote of $2,000 or more. Join for free today. Lowes we help you save offer can't be combined with any other discount contract and or special pricing exclusions. More terms and restrictions apply. [e-mail] Terms subject to change. The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know.

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I love this and everything about it feels true in my body and it also feels a little contradictory or paradoxical. So I want to dive into this a little more because I get a little afraid. For us as women, we already have a tendency to be so others focused. We often create stress in our lives by putting Everybody else's wants and needs above our own, by people pleasing and things like that. And yet you're saying the most productive thing when we're stressed is to lean into being others focused and giving. So how do we distinguish between the being others focus that creates what ultimately feels like bad stress and the being others focused that actually helps mitigate stress?

[A]

It's. That's such a good question. And I want to, I think this goes back to framing stress as good, bad. Right, Those labels. And so I want to, I want to offer another study that I think is, is paramount to this. And I promise that I'll come back to answer this question. But I have to give you this first. So, you know, in a moment of existential crisis, as I'm aging, I'm looking for meaning and purpose. And I come across this study because I'm looking like, what, what, what is a meaningful, purposeful life? What does that look like? How do I get that? Because ultimately I feel like that's what most of us are looking to achieve. And it turns out the number one correlate to a meaningful, purposeful life is stress. It's past stressful events, it's current levels of stress, it's even future worry and anxiety. So good news, women. We all have really meaningful, purposeful lives now. Full stop. That's because we are way more stressed out than, than men, like significantly. So we've got the data to back it. And guys, I'm not trying to like, throw you out of the equation. You have a lot of stress too. It's just this is. These are the gender differences that we see. So I was struggling with that. Cause I was like, well, I, I feel like I could live a meaningful, purposeful life and juggle my stress better. So I'm going to ask you all the same question that I asked during this research because I was so curious about understanding this better. And this question is this. I want you to think about a project or an accomplishment that you're most proud of. Now go back in time to when you were in the middle of that project. What was your stress level? On a scale of zero to a hundred, how stressed were you? And you know, I mean, you all know, you're sitting there going, 5842, you know, like, don't limit me to 100. And that's, of course, that's what the data show. You know, most people are, are really stressed out of their gourds when they're doing their most meaningful, purposeful work. And so I think the reframe here is not, oh my gosh, I can't take on more and give more. Women have been asked to give and give and give and give and give. So this is not me asking you to give more. I want to be really clear of that. I want you to give to yourself in a meaningful and purposeful way. And I need you to figure out what that looks like for you, because this is really individual, right. And to begin to recognize that that stress is really a barometer for how much you care. And the problem is we're only recognizing it in retrospect when we look back and we go, yeah, that was, that was important work I was doing that was really meaningful. And so my ask is in the moment. Can we invite the tiger in? Can we sit it down? Can we get curious? Can we smile with it? And then can we realign and point it and say, good, this is the small action I'm gonna take right now. And it is actually for me. And here's how it's for me. But getting, getting clarity there and making sure that that is actually in alignment for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Does that help?

[B]

It does. The phrase one step towards what matters most kept going through my brain because I think that that's at least. And I hear you about labeling it bad or good. I'm more talking about like a pattern of experience for myself. This feels unhealthy, this feels bad. And it's usually when I'm others focused, but not in a way that matters most.

[A]

There it is.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That's huge. That's such a good, important distinction.

[B]

So you also talk about a term playing sick. What is that?

[A]

So I gotta take you back to me being eight years old here. When I was eight, I loved the theater, right? And so I tried to be in every spotlight I could. I'd won. I was in like my 4H and I'd won my city, which was not a big deal because I was like the only competitor, really small city, got to go on to county, won at county. I was feeling really good, but I was nervous, right? I was scared because state finals, I was going to state finals as an eight year old. And rather than show up with the potential to win or the potential to lose, I played sick. So I never showed up. I just pretended like I was sick and didn't, didn't show up to that. And my fear is most of us, I would say most of us spend most of our lives, if we're not careful, playing sick because we're trying to control the outcome. We're Trying to control the thing that we can control. And the thing that we can control is by sitting back and not taking action. Because it's really easy to measure the cost of our actions. Right. Like, I might fail. I might look like a fool. I might screw up. It might be bad. And women in particular, we get into this space where we're like, I'll just. I'll play sick. I'll just hold back. Yeah.

[B]

Wait until I'm ready.

[A]

That's right. Which is never. It's never. We're never ready. I've been waiting to be an adult my whole life. I'm waiting for that to come. And so this idea of playing sick is, how can you stop playing sick? How can you go all in, even in a small, brave step forward? Right. In this. In this small moment of courage to run at that stressor that is going to bring you meaning and purpose and recognize that. And look, it's going to be scary. It's supposed to be scary. Totally. But the scariest thing, I would argue the scariest thing is that cost of inaction that we forget to measure. It's the regrets that fester that we lay on our deathbeds going, why didn't I, Why didn't I? Why didn't I?

[B]

Yeah. And I think unconsciously, the. What will I regret most? Doing the thing or not doing the thing? And the research is pretty clear that what we regret most is that what we don't do.

[A]

Right, of course, yeah. The research is clear, but it's also really clear that we are most fearful of doing the thing. Right. So it's this weird, contradictory thing where we're like, yeah, I know the costs of. Of this. And that unknown is what prevents us from.

[B]

From going, yeah, you say something along the lines of the only people who have no stress are dead people or something like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, so what do we tell ourselves in the face of all the messaging of de Stress? No stress. Eliminate stress. Like, how do we internally. You know, I, like, I just was thinking when I go to the doctor, they always ask about my stress level.

[A]

How stressed are you?

[B]

How stressed are you? Yeah, And I'm like, well, it depends, like, comparatively.

[A]

I think like a 5.

[B]

How it feels in my body. Like a 52.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, honor that. I think. Here's what I'll say. I. I love. I'll quote Billie Jean King. I love her quote. Pressure is privilege. Pressure is privileged. Stress is a privilege, and for me, one of the most. And since you mentioned the Dr. I think this is a really important study for us all to recognize. And I'm not trying to scare anybody into this mindset, but, you know, fear's a good motivator. So let me share with you this really formative study for me where 2013, we looked at 30,000Americans across eight years time. And the things that we were measuring, this is the amount of stress. And the most important factor was, do you believe stress is harmful to you? So people with very high levels of stress. This is the bad news first, y'. All. High level stress people I'm looking at all of you out there, right, who believed that stress was bad for their health died at very high rates, 43% higher mortality rate. Hmm. Okay. So that may not be surprising to any of us. Cause we're like, yeah, well, stress is bad. Here's the flip side. People with that same very high level of stress who believed that stress wasn't bad for their health had the lowest mortality rates of the entire study. Lower, in fact, than people who said they had very little stress in their life. So, again, this isn't about stress is killing us. This is about like 182,000 people died from that study in the course of that study, not because of high levels of stress, but because of the beliefs that stress was bad for them. And that is powerful. Right? So again, not trying to use fear as a motivator there, but think about how powerful your beliefs are and what would happen if you began to use that and say, okay, this is the signal that my body is getting. This is energy that is enabling my body. I have the privilege to use this. That's a competitive advantage.

[B]

Right? Okay. So you gave us three steps, and I would imagine just like anything worth doing, it requires practice to get good at it, right?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Any tips in ways to apply. How do we put ourselves in the category where we, regardless of how much stress we're experiencing, we don't perceive it as just start. Okay?

[A]

That's my advice, is just start. So. So for me today, I mean, I've had, like, all of you. I've had 60,000 things that felt like tigers already. And it's 11:30 this morning. And so throughout the day, my. My line to myself constantly is, it's not a tiger. It's not a tiger. This is not going to kill me. You in the next three minutes. What good can come to this? How do I use this energy differently? Where do I want to point this? What's important to me right now? Right. How do I point this trajectory and look, this is often. And to your point, this is often self serving first. When I do this, I then get to serve my people better. Right. I'm ready to talk. Like, I need to get this talked on. It's stressing me out. Okay. It's not a tiger. I'm gonna get curious with it. Good. I have the opportunity to serve people by doing this for myself in a way that's powerful. Right. You show up if you're a mom, if you're a parent, you show up better for your kid by taking care of you. So I think starting small, just. Just recognizing that when you catch yourself saying, ugh, I'm so stressed out, go pause. What does that mean? Can I use it differently? Can I treat this stress? Not as an enemy that I have to fight?

[B]

Yeah. I often ask myself the question, is there a different, more productive, more empowered way to see it? And I'm just like, same set of facts. Right? And just the acknowledgement that we are making up what it means. You said that earlier. So if we're making up what it means, then we have the opportunity to make up that it means something else. But what I really, really love is the sending the message not to just to your mind, but from your body to your mind and then getting into action to support the new interpretation.

[A]

Yeah. And not only that, but like, if you're around people, which I am all the time, like, we're doing this interview right now, and you said at the very start, man, you don't look stressed. I was crying in the shower, like 10 minutes before this started. I'm just gonna be really honest with you. Like, I was sobbing. You're like, you don't even look stressed. You know why? Because I put on. I put on a smile, I threw my shoulders back. And then here's what happens. Because humans are contagious. Like, energetically contagious, emotionally contagious. When I see you and you look at me and you're smiling and you're like, oh, she's. You're open. I'm open. Now I actually get your energy and I get this excitement from you, and I'm like, oh, it's not that I'm stressed. I actually am excited. And I become more excited as a result. So when you show up acting as if others interpret that and they feed it back to you. And that's really powerful. I mean, if you've ever sat next to somebody. I travel on planes a lot. I'm not a nervous flyer. But if I sit next to a nervous flyer, Immediately, I'm a nervous flyer because every little jump I'm like, oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. And that's how contagious, you know, human energy is and emotion is. So, yeah, well.

[B]

And I'm an extreme introvert. And I even need to acknowledge without a shadow of a doubt that people are often the cure. I always say, well made people, because I do think who you choose to surround yourself with really matters. Especially when you might, you know, have just cried in the shower or the car, used your car keys and spoon or whatever. Like, whatever you might, like, be selective about who you surround yourself with. But people and energy, it's contagious. And it really is truly the answer. And I do think you. You tell me if I'm wrong, that that might be a little bit of our competitive advantage as women, because we do tend to leverage each other more naturally.

[A]

We are much better at community.

[B]

Community. Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, no, absolutely. We're much better at community. We seek people out under stress way more than men. And actually, this is an invitation to mention, um, any. Any of. Any of you that identify as men, please. This is one of the ways that you can mitigate your stress. The best is find that level of emotional connectivity to other people in your life. It is so powerful and so important. And, you know, kudos to us women for, for holding that sacred space for each other. You know, your story is my story. We're not. We're not sharing the same stress. But I'll tell you right now when I. When I tell people, like, here's what I'm going through and shoot. We set up a nonprofit during one of the most stressful periods of my life. And there was so much going on, and I was like, why are we doing this nonprofit? And the reason was all of these other women were coming in and it was. It's. It's a basketball. Like, we're playing basketball. This is not a serious nonprofit. Right. It's a. It's a space way to hold space for women to show up. And all of these women kept coming in, and it was like somebody was going through a divorce. Somebody was taking care of aging parents. Somebody had a teenager that was acting out. And it became so much more. It wasn't about basketball. It was about this outlet for all of these women who had different stressors, different points in their life. But we were all coming together, moving our bodies and sharing in this discomfort together in ways that was really productive. So, yeah. Find your tribe. Find your tribe.

[B]

I love that. I love that on that very important note. Thank you, Rebecca, for being here again and for your incredibly important work. I'm just gonna remind you, the listener. Go get your hand on Rebecca's book. It's springboard. Go to bookshop.org, order on Amazon or go to your local bookstore. Let's keep them in business, but definitely get your hands on this book. I think it's the Bible we all need, right? We're all experiencing stress. Let's have it work with and for us. And of course, her website is rebeccaheist.com we'll put all the links in. Show notes, Rebecca.

[A]

Thank you, Nicole. It's been a pleasure. Thank you all so much.

[B]

All right, friends, so maybe stress isn't the thing we need to silence, sideline or numbness. Maybe we don't need to disguise it with deep breathing and a fake smile. A real one, though. Maybe, just maybe, stress is trying to serve us, to show us what matters, what we care about and what we're capable of. It's not about eliminating stress. It's about transforming it from enemy to energy, from too much to handle to exactly what I was built for. Stress has been misunderstood for so long, labeled as weakness, as dysfunction, as something to hide or fix, just like woman's work. But when we actually look beneath the surface, both are powerful, essential, and worth embracing on our own terms. Because it turns out the thing we've been avoiding might be the very thing that helps us do our most meaningful, impactful, and aligned work. Because stress, your stress, is preparing you to meet your moment. And if that's not woman's work, then friend, I don't know what is.