← This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
Lift Heavy, Live Long: Reclaiming Your Strength with Anne-Marie Chaker | 368
00:31:02
Women’s strength training = power, confidence, and longevity. Anne-Marie Chaker shows us how lifting heavy (without chasing “smaller”) helps us build bodies—and lives—that can carry what matters, on our terms..
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- [00:01]
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- [01:11]
Nicole Kahlil
I am Nicole Kahlil, and you're listening to the this Is Woman's Work podcast, where together we're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And today we're talking about a type of work that I've spent most of my life actively avoiding. Physical work. The sweaty exercise kind. The voluntary lifting heavy things and calling it fun kind. The running even though nothing is chasing you. The purposely pushing your body through pain even though you're not actually being tortured kind. Full disclosure, and you probably already figured this out. I hate exercising. I call myself a reluctant peloton rider because it's the only workout I've ever been able to tolerate consistently. But I still don't love it. I mean, every single time I get ready to work out, I secretly hope for an injury that will give me a legitimate reason not to do it. It's always the same cycle for me. I dread it, delay it, convince myself to just do five minutes of it, get into it, and then, surprise. I feel like a damn superhero when it's done. For about five minutes. Then I forget all about that feeling, start the process all over again the very next day. But lately, I've been doing something new. Strength training in an actual gym with a trainer I love to hate and other women who are also lifting heavy things on purpose. I sweat in public. And get this. I don't hate it. At least not the whole time. I leave that hour of Self induced torture. Feeling proud, powerful, and like I'm building something more than just muscle. And if I'm being totally honest, I've started feeling kind of addicted to it again. Not the exercise itself, but the way I feel after and in between. And friend, nobody is more shocked about it than me. But let me be clear. I'm not doing any of this to get smaller or to lose weight or to hit some arbitrary number. I'm doing it for health, strength and longevity. And in some cases, to have a healthy way to release some of my rage. Because I want to be strong for as long as I possibly can. Which brings us to today's conversation. Because maybe, just maybe, lifting or whatever workout you can tolerate isn't just about your body. Maybe lifting is a way to reclaim your power and transform your life. That's what our guest, Annmarie Checker, believes. She's a Wall Street Journal reporter turned professional bodybuilder and the author of Lift How Women Can Reclaim Their Physical Power and Transform Their Lives, a book that is part personal journey, part, part practical guide, and all about challenging the norms that have told women for far too long to take up less space. Annemarie, thank you for being here. And I'm guessing I'm probably one of the very few hosts who kicks off a conversation with a fitness enthusiast by admitting how much I hate working out, but here we are, right?
- [03:59]
Annemarie Checker
I love that. I love that so much. Because, you know, even today, there are so many days where I literally don't want to go to the gym. There's like umpteen other things that we feel like doing. You know, take a walk with the dog, you know, get a pedicure. Like there's a million other things to do. Right. And you have to force yourself. But it's like one of these things where I guarantee once you go, you're going to be so glad you went. Lifting weights is always invigorating to me. Yeah.
- [04:32]
Nicole Kahlil
The difference that I feel in my body and I actually like being a little bit sore after each time I go, it makes me aware that I've done something worth doing right. Why? Based on your experience, both in your life and in writing this book and interacting with so many different women, why do you think lifting or strength training is particularly important? Obviously, there are a ton of options out there for us and every person probably has their reason why their thing is the best thing. Why lifting and strength training for you?
- [05:04]
Annemarie Checker
You know, I think of my mom who lives just around the corner from me. She's 76 77. And, you know, she's at this point in her life now where, you know, I'll reach out to hug her, and I can feel the frailty. Like, my mom was never like a frail person. She was a tough woman, and she could change the oil on the car, she could change a tire, she could fix anything. But women of that generation weren't told to lift weights. Right? So it's the kind of thing that if we don't force ourselves to do it, we lose it over time. And so that's why we hit our 70s. We hit a certain age, and there's just. We're less able to climb the hills and carry the baby. And it sucks because we still have a lot of life ahead of us. So we have been conditioned as women to, from the moment we're born, to make less of ourselves. Right. Every message we get in society, in marketing, we go to the grocery store. Everything is thins, wheat thins, you know, Lean Cuisine. It's like skinny jeans. It's like the thing that we are supposed to covet. And it's only since I went down this bodybuilding and powerlifting rabbit hole did I realize how false and fictitious that ideal was that we function. I functioned the best when I entered this world of bodybuilders and powerlifters and coaches who taught me to eat more, eat more protein, lift the heavy weights, and think of my body as something to build and to make more of. And it was almost like magic. Once I started doing that, it was like within weeks, my life just got better. Everything got better. I worked better. I functioned better physically, but also mentally, I gained more confidence. I started. Started wearing lipstick again. I made a match.com profile. It was just so clear to me that this was the body I was meant to occupy that I wanted to research more about. Well, what the heck is this skinny thing? And why did. Why have we been forced to chase this false idol when this. This is the thing that we should be chasing, is the muscle?
- [07:18]
Nicole Kahlil
Yeah. There's a woman in the class that I take who's in her early 70s, and she is ripped. Like, she is so strong. And I am so, like, I admire her so much. She lifts way heavier weights than I did. Like, she's in such good shape. And you can tell she's enjoying her life. She's, you know, traveling. She's doing things with her grandkids. And there's something about that that is really attractive. I've drawn toward it. And I want to reiterate what you said that I think is so important to make more of our bodies. Like how contrary that is to all the messaging we've received so far. But thinking about it, why wouldn't we want to make more of this gift that we have?
- [08:06]
Annemarie Checker
Well, so I asked myself that very question. And what I kind of came to, when I looked at the history, it seemed clear that this whole skinny fixation was really a product of the last hundred or so years. And really it's an ideal that has served men well. A patriarchy run by men. Well, for women to be small and childlike and more silent and hungry, you know, that serves men well to keep us quiet. So I became very enamored of the research of this University of Cambridge professor named Allison Murray, who looked at the bones of early women, Neolithic and Paleolithic women, and nobody had done this, but she compared those skeletons with those of a pool of modern women at Cambridge University. And she looked at, you know, athletic students, non athletic, more sedentary students, Mishpah. And she found that the skeletons of the early women, the early population, was most similar to the elite rowers, meaning they had broad shoulders and well developed upper bodies. And this blew my mind because it was like these women were athletes. They weren't. The idea that men were the hunters while women were the gatherers picking berries in the field was nonsense. These women were crushing it. They were an integral part of agriculture. They were lifting heavy things. And this spoke to me that this is the body that we are meant to inhabit. That no wonder I feel better as an athlete, as a woman lifting weights and eating lots of protein, because that's what my ancestors did. They weren't sitting around wondering how to lose 20 pounds or how to get thinner. So it, it became like, and it was just this kind of like, oh my God, why isn't everyone doing this? And like, how can I get this message out there?
- [10:07]
Nicole Kahlil
It's interesting. I can't remember who wrote the article, but I was reading an article that said something to the effect of how the attractive body type is evolving and changing and how men are a little bit more attracted now to the strong fit, thick body type. And I'm reading this article, like in my brain is going, who the fuck cares? Like, why are we so worried about what body type is most attractive to? Like, that is not the primary purpose that our bodies serve. Our body serves so many greater purposes than attracting the male gaze.
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Ad Host
Right?
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Annemarie Checker
Yeah.
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Nicole Kahlil
And so what, what I'm hearing over and over again as you're talking is it's what makes you feel Good. What makes you feel strong? What makes you feel like, God, this is the way my body is meant to work and to feel. And finding that out for ourselves is really the greatest opportunity, along with longevity, with becoming more strong. Am I hearing you correctly?
- [11:11]
Annemarie Checker
Yeah. No. It's interesting, Nicole, when you were talking about this idea of, like, who cares what we look like to the male gaze? And I thought of myself, you know, in my 20s, when back in the day when I cared very much about this. And it's normal. We, like, I have a teenage daughter now, and she cares about how she presents herself. She just got a phone and she. Now she's looking at TikTok and social media and she cares about this. And I think about me at that age and her and, you know, on the one hand, there's nothing I could do, right? She's going to care about what boys think. But I also think, you know, for all the nonsense of social media, the thing that we're seeing, when I look at what she's scrolling through, sometimes, you know, I'll look over her shoulder and there's a lot of, like, young girls at the gym, right? And they're lifting weights. And I. I look at the strength training at the gym these days. Compared to when I started bodybuilding, what, five, six years ago, there were, like, no women. I was one of very, very few women in the weight room, Honestly, I could say. And now I would say a good half of them are lifting weights and they know what they're doing. They're in there, they're young and they are with it, and they know exactly what they're doing. So maybe that's a good thing. I mean, I'm not gonna say it's like, oh, we've all been cured of this. No, like, I think in a lot of ways it's worse because now it's like there is a skinn fixation. There is GLP1s and OIC and everybody's going on this stuff. But there's also this added pressure to have a layer of musculature on top of the skinny. And I know as a pro bodybuilder that you need fat to build muscle. You cannot build muscle on a calorie deficit. So I have all these complicated feelings about all of this, because it's like, yes, well, maybe we're turning a corner on one hand, and it's good that there's young women going to the gym on the other hand, like the whole GLP1 thing. And I'm sure you saw the news about Serena Advertising GLP1s. And it really made me feel a certain way because I always looked at her body as a great example of, you know, just this superhero physique. And, you know, there's so been so much written about, like, well, on the one hand, it's her choice, her body, her choice. And like, what. But what better example of, you know, a body that, that shows the potential of what is possible when you build it rather than like diminish it. So anyway, none of this is articulate. I'm sorry, Nicole.
- [13:39]
Nicole Kahlil
No, no, no. Well, I think the word that I keep coming back to is complicated, because it is very complicated. You can look at the same thing from so many different angles. And I have a 12 year old daughter who, you know, is really starting to pay attention and like, Sephora is all the rage. And yes, you know, I'm like, oh God. And I also cared far too much in my 20s and I shrunk and lifted and sucked in and did everything that I possibly could.
- [14:10]
Annemarie Checker
Yeah.
- [14:11]
Nicole Kahlil
What I have come to, and I'm not saying this is the answer or that it's not still complicated, but what I've come to is, and we, I talked to my daughter about this a little bit. Like we're starting to get in these conversations of really connecting to the why and why am I doing this? What matters about this for me? And is my why healthy and productive? Is it empowered? Right. You know, so for me, going to the gym and lifting to be strong, to be able to continue to do the things that I want to do for a very long time, to keep up with potential future grandchildren, if that happens to feel good in my body to avoid injury, those feel like very healthy, empowered, productive choices for me. The minute I start going into, oh, I can wear tighter clothes or look better when we go out with other people.
- [15:15]
Annemarie Checker
Yes.
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Nicole Kahlil
For me, I know that when I go into that realm, I'm poking at old insecurities.
- [15:23]
Annemarie Checker
Yes.
- [15:23]
Nicole Kahlil
And that doesn't mean that that would be a sign of insecurity for someone else. It's just being aware of where I'm coming from, a healthy place, and when I'm tipping over into old default settings or social norms or caring far too much about what everybody else thinks or that type of thing. And I'm trying to help my daughter figure that out for herself. And then that leads me to this. My second thought is, everyone else's bodies are none of my business. My body is my business and my body is nobody else's business. And that is so much easier to say than it is to put into practice, because it is really hard to not feel reactionary to, especially the things that are put out there on social media or the people we admire or follow, or that we've thought one thing and then learn another. It can be really hard to hold onto that belief, but those are my two guiding principles. For me right now, when it comes to my body, good sex isn't chemistry, it's competence.
- [16:24]
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- [16:54]
Nicole Kahlil
Of things in between.
- [16:55]
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- [18:03]
Nicole Kahlil
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- [18:05]
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- [18:34]
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- [19:05]
Annemarie Checker
This is profound stuff, Nicole. This is very profound and complicated, multi layered. I will say we are human beings and we have eyes, right? And we have heroes and we like for instance, the woman that I met at the gym who kind of started me on my like I got started on this whole journey because I loved her body. I in my 40s, fell in love with the idea of muscle and I inhabited this world where like the look of muscle on a body was infinitely more interesting to me than a thin one. And, and I wanted to emulate that. Now I will say in this crazy sport of bodybuilding, dieting is a part of it. And in the weeks ahead of competition, we cut pretty dramatically in order to showcase all of this muscle that we have built that we have put on my body. And our bodies are judged for symmetry, for how the muscle bellies look and how so I know what goes into leaning out and putting on a stage. Ready? I put this in quotes or stage perfect in quotes, bikini body. And let me tell you, it's not pretty. It's really not fun to have to give up pizza and date nights and wine and all of the yum of life is not how I wanna live. It's not meant. It's a body that is meant for a moment on stage and it's not meant for long term. I say this, that really this weirdo sport has really helped me understand nutrition on a very micro level. And the pros and cons that come with attention to fastidious attention to diet and cutting and leaning out and the cost that has like I would much rather inhabit a body that's like 15 pounds up from that physique and one in which I'm not exhausted and miserable and enjoying, you know, restaurants with my partner and eating the birthday cake without a second thought. Like that is the quote Unquote, cost. And is. Is it one that you're willing to. In my case, yes. It's so, you know, everything comes with trade offs. And when you see these bodies on a fitness magazine, on the COVID of a fitness magazine. And I want girls, like schoolgirls to understand, like, when they see like a magazine called, I don't know, fit or Shape, and they see like these incredible abs on a bikini, but they've dieted hard in order to gain that physique. And it is not meant to be a physique that you live on. It's just not present, it's not a healthy one. And it drives me, like, knowing what goes into that. It drives me nuts that people think that that is a healthy body. It's not.
- [22:17]
Nicole Kahlil
Yeah. Or that anybody's body looks like that. For the long term, can. I am wildly curious about bodybuilding because I do have. I know a few women who have gotten so into lifting that they, you know, went into professional bodybuilding competitions, things like that. Now, I think this goes without saying, there's zero chance in hell I would ever go that route because again, it's just my passion. I'm not that into it. And at least my understanding with bodybuilding is there is, of course, a competitive aspect. There is a showing of all of the work that you've put in. There are rules. There are.
- [22:58]
Ad Host
So I'm just wildly curious.
- [23:01]
Nicole Kahlil
What about bodybuilding do you think sucks people in? Is it like the same thing as somebody going the professional route of any sport? Or do you find that there is anything different being in that world? What are the differences or the things that attract people that go in that more professional direction? Is my question making any sense?
- [23:21]
Annemarie Checker
Oh, total sense. And it is like a world that I would have never in a million years expected I would have ever gone into. I was a journalist, a newspaper reporter. I worked at the Wall Street Journal and inhabited a very staid, gray kind of professional decorum, newsroom demeanor, and entering this world. I, well, I remember when I started working with this coach and we started working on, you know, the eating more and the lifting heavy weights. And at some point she was like, you put on muscle really easily. You should consider competing. And I remember thinking, like, there is no chance in hell. Like, you know, I'd seen pictures of this and the fake tans and the sparkly bikinis and the big hair and like, the muscles and the posing on stage. I was like, is no way. My mom lives around the corner and is, like, very involved. Like, I was like, if mom ever found out I did this, she would be, like. She would lose her mind. Like. Like, there's a way. But then, like, I was kind of also flattered that she said that. And I thought, well, why not? Like, I'll do it as a lark, and, you know, I'll write about it, and maybe I'll get a story out of it for the Journal, and it'll be this lark, and, you know, I'll never have to do it again, but I'll get a kick out of it. So then, like, I kind of entered this rabbit hole of women who were also really interested in muscle, and they would. We were in this closed Facebook group, and each week they would take, like, a Flex Friday photo and, like, you know, look at the. Look at my bicep, dude. And they'd be, you know, look at my quad. It's getting bigger. And, like, I initially thought this because I didn't know these women, but, like, I was kind of fascinated by the. It wasn't like, here's me having lost 10 pounds. It was like, here's me with, like, more stuff on, you know? And so I kind of, like, got a hoot. Like, this was a hoot. And I enjoyed these. Women kind of became my friends. And the world of competition was so different than the world of journalism. Like, it was kind of blingy and trashy and, like, you know, fake tans and big hair and fake nails and muscles, and I loved it. I loved being part of this cast of characters and the showmanship of it, and it was just so different. I just really enjoyed it. Yeah, I know that sounds really crazy.
- [25:44]
Nicole Kahlil
No, it's a good reminder to never say never and to be open to new things. You just truly never know.
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Annemarie Checker
I made friends that I would have never expected to meet otherwise, and it was just. It was really cool. Yeah.
- [25:56]
Nicole Kahlil
One of the things you talk about in your book are what you call lift principles and how they can be applied into our daily lives. So what are some of these lift principles that impact our day to day?
- [26:10]
Annemarie Checker
All right, so one is taking time for yourself. I think as women, we are so engineered to care for everyone else and put our needs last. And, you know, I was just talking about this with someone earlier today that, you know, we almost have this, like, sort of sense of guilt if we take time for ourselves. I mean, there was a period where, like, I kind of notice the extent to which I am guilty of this, not even being able to sit through an entire movie or something without having to get up and, like, clear the counter or something. We have to stop this punishing ourselves because we're not doing stuff all the time. So for me like the hour I take to go to the gym is just, it's a non negotiable. Motivation is a fleeting thing. I don't think of it, don't look for motivation cause it's not gonna happen most of the time. I really don't want to do this. I don't even know how to explain it. It's just like the habit I have every day. I'm going to do it like probably after we talk. Nicole, I'm going to go to the gym and really wouldn't rather not, but I'm going to, you know, because that is who I am, that is what I do. So another piece of this is thinking of self care. Not we have such a commercial view of what self care is. Oh it's like Calgon, take me away or you know, getting a massage massage or getting a m. Self care isn't necessarily feel good. It's this is a different kind of feel good. It is like move your butt, get to a place where you are going to put in an investment to yourself. Only takes 30 minutes, doesn't have to take all day. Give yourself 30 minutes, lift some heavy shit and like you'll be so much better for it. And I guarantee you, guarantee you, you will come back to your desk or whatever thing is waiting for you and you will feel so much. The thing that always blows my mind is like after I come home from lifting, I don't feel this way about any. Like you can't bottle this stuff. I will be a brand new person. I will be, I'll have a more positive outlook. It might be like the thing that has been sitting around that I've been procrastinating about. I'll attack it or I'll have like a wave of new ideas but I come back from that lift a remarkably better person. It is something that will give you compounded dividends not just for the long term, but also just for the immediate term too.
- [28:34]
Nicole Kahlil
Yeah, so that's what was going through my mind too is you know, I hate self care. The silliness that it's taken on and the short term fix that it's become go get a manicure or whatever. And I'm not. If you want to go get a manicure, go get one.
- [28:48]
Annemarie Checker
Like no. Right.
- [28:49]
Nicole Kahlil
You know, but redefining self care to think about these compounding dividends. Right. Or the, the thing about exercise is it helps us mentally Emotionally, physically, now, end a day throughout time for the long haul. Like it really, there's so many boxes that it checks for taking care of ourselves. And to reiterate the carving out time for our health, and I do mine in the middle of my workday. Really. I had taken 8:45 or a 9:45 class. And for a long time it was like, oh, I can't do that. I have too many things to do. And what I found is that it has made me better in the work time that I'm. That I have. Even though I'm technically carving hours out of my workday, I've been more productive. And then I just want to reiterate what you said too, is we have to stop waiting for motivation. Yes, when it comes to exercise, but really with everything else, motivation isn't something that comes. It's something that we create. And we create by getting an action toward it. I always love the universe listens to action. When we take action towards something, it responds. And I have found that to be true in my journey as well. So, Annemarie, thank you for an incredible conversation today. For encouraging us to be more, to make more of our bodies and to lift heavy things. For those of you listening, make sure you find Annemarie substack. It's called Lyft. Her book is also available on Amazon or wherever you buy books. Let's keep our local bookstores in business. Again, the book is called Lift. We'll put all of the links in show notes. Anne Marie, thank you so much for your time today.
- [30:27]
Annemarie Checker
Such a pleasure. Nicole, thank you.
- [30:29]
Nicole Kahlil
My pleasure. All right, friend. We have been told for far too long to shrink, to take up less space, to be small in our bodies, our voices, and our lives. But what if the real flex is in building, Building strength, building confidence, building a body that supports the life you want to live for the long haul. You don't have to love working out. God knows I don't. But I do hope that you find something, anything, that helps you be strong in your own body. Because let's be honest, you probably already are lifting heavy things in your life, in your work, family, expectations and emotions and strength. The real kind helps you carry it all when you need to and put it down when you don't. Stronger is better than smaller because it's for you. It's not about how you look. It's about who you're becoming. So lift, build and grow. Because all of that is woman's work.
- [31:31]
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