Podcast Summary: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil Episode 388: "Like A Wave, We Break: How Falling Apart Builds Confidence with Jane Chen" Guest: Jane Chen | Date: February 16, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores the transformative power of failure and the critical role that breaking apart—emotionally, professionally, or personally—plays in building genuine confidence and authenticity. Nicole Kalil and humanitarian entrepreneur Jane Chen discuss how setbacks are not just passages to endured but teachers that forge resilience, self-compassion, and a truer sense of self, especially in leadership and "woman's work" today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Confidence Through Failure and Recovery

• Nicole challenges conventional advice on confidence (“fake it till you make it”) and shares her realization: failure is a powerful builder, not a destroyer, of confidence (02:00–03:50).
  • “It’s not perfection that builds firm and bold trust in self. It’s the failure and the recovery.” — Nicole (03:20)
• Jane’s story: After dedicating a decade to Embrace Global—a life-saving social venture—Jane faced its closure, which forced a painful identity crisis and ultimately, a healing journey that redefined her self-worth and resilience (04:14–08:10).

2. When Your Worth Is Entangled with Achievement

• Many women unconsciously tie their worth to external achievements. Nicole and Jane dissect how to untangle self-worth from outcomes (08:10–10:44).
  • Jane emphasizes focusing on values over outcomes: “If I’m living my values day in and day out, that is success, not necessarily the outcome itself.” (08:54)
  • Social media’s amplifying effects on external validation is noted as especially fragile territory for self-worth.

3. Knowing When to Push and When to Pause

• The dilemma: When do you give yourself grace versus push through?
  • Jane recommends pausing and asking: “Is this coming from my heart, or is it coming from a fear that I’m not worthy?” (11:23)
  • She introduces the “whole body yes”: only pursue what aligns your head, heart, and gut (11:23–13:57).
  • “When we care for ourselves, that is not weakness. That is what allows us to create sustainable impact over the long term.” — Jane (13:40)

4. Building Self-Awareness & Recognizing Body Cues

• Both speakers share how somatic clues offer guidance:
  • Nicole’s signal: disconnection and numbness signal she’s pushing from a place of needing to prove herself (14:27–15:27).
  • Jane reassures that self-awareness develops with time and pausing to notice subtle cues (15:27–15:58).

5. The Nonlinear Path of Healing and Recovery

• Healing from loss, change, or trauma is “not a linear process” (19:53).
  • Parts Work/Internal Family Systems: Jane describes how befriending all inner “parts” (the achiever, inner critic, wounded child) leads to compassion and self-acceptance (19:53–22:18).
  • “The goal is not to shame or banish these parts, but to relate to them with love and compassion.” — Jane (21:14)

6. Therapeutic & Transformative Modalities

• Jane goes on an “around-the-world” journey to explore healing modalities:
  • The necessity of pausing to actually feel difficult emotions, rather than intellectualize or escape them (22:54–25:34).
  • Parts Work/IFS: Jane offers a free exercise on her website for trying this practice.
  • The role of psychedelic journeys (specifically, MDMA-assisted therapy) in processing trauma: “What it’s really done is just allow me to safely process some very difficult emotions and to have compassion—both for myself and for my family system.” (25:47–28:57)
• Key learning from “The Body Keeps the Score”—trauma is stored in our limbic system and affects us unless processed at that level (25:47–28:57).

7. The Power of Community & Empathetic Resonance

• Sharing difficult emotions and stories in safe, supportive relationships dissolves shame and accelerates healing (30:49–31:30).
  • “When we have that shame and we’re not expressing it, it grows... The power of community is one of the reasons I think chatbots can’t replace humans.” — Jane (30:49–31:11)
• Jane shares her experience working with Bessel van der Kolk (author of “The Body Keeps the Score”) and how empathetic resonance in therapy helped her access and process emotions more deeply (31:30–33:06).

8. Moving From Achievement to Authenticity, Especially at Work

• Authenticity creates psychological safety, the top indicator of high-functioning teams (34:02–35:56).
  • Jane recalls: “When I was vulnerable with my team, it gave them permission to be vulnerable too.”
  • Letting go of perfection and focusing on impact, not outcomes—a symbolic ritual of surrender: “I threw my only copy of the book in the ocean... letting the wave take this message to where it needs to go.” (35:57–36:54)

9. Advice for Those in the ‘Break’

• If you are in a breaking or low point now:
  • “Our biggest breaking points become the most beautiful breakthroughs. If we can ride the storm and treat ourself with compassion... you will find freedom on the other side.” — Jane (37:24–37:48)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “It’s not perfection that builds firm and bold trust in self. It’s the failure and the recovery.” — Nicole (03:20)
• “My whole identity was so wrapped up in my company and my achievements, that I really didn’t know who I was anymore.” — Jane (06:30)
• “If I’m living my values day in and day out, that is success, not necessarily the outcome itself.” — Jane (08:54)
• “When we care for ourselves, that is not weakness. That is what allows us to create sustainable impact over the long term.” — Jane (13:40)
• “The goal [of parts work] is not to shame or banish these parts, but to relate to them with love and compassion.” — Jane (21:14)
• “Achievement itself can be a trauma response... When we don’t feel enough, then we need to do more and prove more.” — Jane (26:32)
• "When I was vulnerable with my team, it gave them permission to be vulnerable too." — Jane (34:35)
• “Our biggest breaking points become the most beautiful breakthroughs.” — Jane (37:24)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:14 — Jane’s journey: building Embrace Global & losing it
• 08:54 — Self-worth and internal values
• 11:23 — How to discern between grace and grit (“whole body yes”)
• 19:53 — Nonlinear nature of healing; introduction to Parts Work/IFS
• 25:47 — Psychedelic-assisted therapy & understanding trauma
• 30:49 — Power of sharing shame and relying on community
• 34:02 — The importance of authenticity at work
• 37:24 — Advice to those in the middle of crisis or “break”

Memorable Moments

• Jane’s ritual: throwing her only pre-release book copy into the ocean as an act of surrender and letting go of outcomes. (35:57)
• The candid discussion of crying in a team meeting and how vulnerability as a leader cultivates trust and safety. (34:35)
• Reframing “breaking points” as sacred, necessary beginnings rather than evidence of inadequacy.

Resources Mentioned

• Jane’s memoir: Like a Wave We Break
• Website for resources and free Parts Work exercise: janemariechen.com
• Book: The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk

Final Takeaway

In a world that glorifies “holding it together,” this episode reframes breaking, failures, and emotional unraveling as essential, not shameful. It’s through these valleys—when self-compassion is cultivated, when authentic values override achievement, and when true connection is formed with ourselves and our communities—that lasting confidence, leadership, and healing emerge. As Nicole closes: “We don’t just ride the waves. We are the waves.”