Love, Money & Aging Parents: How to Plan Care (Before the Crisis) with Beth Pinsker | 359

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
Episode: Love, Money & Aging Parents: How to Plan Care (Before the Crisis) with Beth Pinsker | 359
Date: November 5, 2025
Guest: Beth Pinsker, Certified Financial Planner, MarketWatch columnist, and author of My Mother's Money: A Guide to Financial Caregiving

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Main Theme

This episode delves into how women often find themselves at the center of caring for aging parents, managing family finances, and navigating the emotional, legal, and relational complexities of elder care. Host Nicole Khalil and guest Beth Pinsker share personal stories and practical guidance for planning financial care before a crisis hits. The conversation emphasizes proactive communication, setting expectations, legal preparedness, and the importance of preserving dignity and peace within families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Emotional Realities of Caregiving

(02:18–05:08)

• Nicole shares her personal story of caring for her father with dementia, laying out the emotional weight, family conflicts, and how preparation made a difference.
• “Nothing brings out family dysfunction faster than money and mortality. Add illness or dementia into the mix, and it’s like a marathon of emotional endurance you never signed up for.” — Nicole Khalil (02:30)

2. Why Women Shoulder Most Caregiving

(08:40–09:14)

• Beth confirms that caregiving typically falls to women, affecting them at peak career and earning years.
• “The majority of family caregivers are women. It hits women in their peak earning, peak career years. 51 is the average age… 60 to 70% of them are women.” — Beth Pinsker (09:16)

3. Financial Fallout of Caregiving

(09:16–12:13)

• Many families are financially unprepared for hiring caregivers, and the emotional load is significant and ongoing.
• “The caregiving work is a mental load too... sometimes it just starts by listening, and you have to be available for that.” — Beth Pinsker (11:00)

4. Cultural Gaps in Elder Care

(12:13–14:25)

• Nicole and Beth underscore the lack of societal structures for elder care, placing more pressure on families, especially daughters.
• The all-consuming nature of caregiving is discussed, along with feelings of guilt and overwhelm.

5. The Importance (and Limits) of Financial Preparation

(14:25–17:16)

• While financial resources can pay for direct care, families are still legally responsible for managing finances and making decisions.
• “You can pay for a lot of the care. But this financial stuff, because it’s so legal related… you can’t really buy your way out of it.” — Beth Pinsker (14:25)
• Trust and legal paperwork are critical; if absent, family members will face significant legal and bureaucratic hurdles.

6. Practical Steps for Preparation

(18:08–22:32)

• Identify Your List: Know and clearly communicate who will take care of you or your loved ones.
• Share Documents: Ensure power of attorney, healthcare proxies, wills, and (if needed) trusts are prepared and copies are shared with responsible parties.
• Lack of these documents can lead to lengthy, expensive court battles.
• “If you don’t have the free power of attorney and you need it, you’re going to court, you’re going to need to hire a lawyer. It’s going to cost you $18,000 and a year of your life.” — Beth Pinsker (19:46)

7. Overcoming Resistance to Planning

(27:15–30:11)

• Nicole brings up common excuses for delaying estate planning (“We don’t agree”, “I’m not sure yet”), to which Beth responds:
• “Figure it out… because if you don’t, someone else is gonna figure it out for you, and that person’s gonna be a judge.” — Beth Pinsker (27:44)
• Real-life stories highlight the risks of indecision or lack of documentation.

8. What Documents & Decisions Are Needed?

(30:11–32:40)

• Not everyone needs a trust, but everyone over 18 should have a healthcare proxy and power of attorney.
• Wills are crucial for families with children; trusts are often necessary for those with property, blended families, or special circumstances.

9. Having the Hard Conversations

(32:40–36:18)

• Both emotional and logistical boundaries must be discussed. Caregiving preferences (e.g., not wanting to enter a nursing home) require honest family negotiation, not just written declarations.
• “You cannot by legal fiat put in your will: I don’t ever want to go in a nursing home… this is all a discussion, that’s all a negotiation.” — Beth Pinsker (33:47)

10. Preparing the Non-Financial Spouse / Partner

(36:31–39:56)

• Spouses must ensure both partners know where accounts, passwords, and bills are located—even if only one handles day-to-day finances.
• Automate bills when possible, organize all documentation, and schedule regular check-ins.
• “It’s the person who is doing the money management… it’s their responsibility to make sure that they leave a path that can be followed.” — Beth Pinsker (37:09)

11. Empowerment & Responsibility

(39:56–41:32)

• Women often abdicate financial awareness to partners; Nicole and Beth stress the need for everyone to stay informed and proactive.
• “I don’t think we can any longer say, oh, I don’t need to know. I trust you… It is still both of our responsibilities to connect once a month or once a quarter and talk through our finances.” — Nicole Khalil (39:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sometimes love looks like spreadsheets, signatures, and the courage to talk about things that nobody wants to face.” — Nicole Khalil (41:50)
• “If it’s not in writing, it doesn’t mean anything, right? It doesn’t count.” — Beth Pinsker (26:38)
• “Caregiving is everyone’s work, because caring for the people we love while still honoring ourselves might be some of the hardest and holiest work we’ll ever do.” — Nicole Khalil (42:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Caregiving Personal Stories: 02:18–05:15
• Why It’s Women: 08:40–09:16
• Financial/Legal Realities: 14:25–17:16 | 18:08–22:32
• Steps to Prepare: 18:29–22:32
• Overcoming Excuses: 27:15–30:11
• What Documents Are Needed When: 30:11–32:40
• Boundaries/Hard Conversations: 32:40–36:18
• Spouse/Partner Preparation: 36:31–39:56
• Final Takeaways: 41:44–42:51

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Advice & Actionable Tips

• Have the Conversations Early: Don’t wait for a crisis—initiate open and honest discussions with family members.
• Get Essential Documents in Order: Power of attorney, healthcare proxy, wills, trusts as needed.
• Share and Store Documents Accessibly: Make sure the right people have copies.
• Set Boundaries & Expectations: Be clear about what you can/will do as a caregiver.
• Educate and Connect Couples: Regularly review finances and important information together.
• Acknowledge the Emotional Load: Prepare for guilt, overwhelm, and seek support when needed.

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Resources & Follow-up

• My Mother's Money by Beth Pinsker — available on Amazon and local bookstores.
• BethPinsker.com for more info and resources.

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Conclusion: The Deeper Meaning of “Woman’s Work”

Nicole closes by reframing caregiving: it isn’t strictly women’s work—it’s everyone’s work. True love and responsibility involve difficult conversations, preparation, and mutual respect, ensuring dignity and clarity for those we love—and for ourselves.

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Transcript

[Nicole Khalil]

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[Nicole Khalil]

I am Nicole Khalil, and you're listening to the this Is Woman's Work podcast, where together we're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And sometimes that work looks like leading teams, building businesses or chasing dreams. And sometimes it looks like sitting across from your aging parent, trying to untangle.

[Podcast Host]

Decades of financial decisions, family dynamics, and.

[Nicole Khalil]

Denial, all while keeping your sanity, your family, your career, and your life intact.

[Podcast Host]

Here's the thing.

[Nicole Khalil]

Nothing brings out family dysfunction faster than money and mortality. Add illness or dementia into the mix and it's like a marathon of emotional endurance you never signed up for. And if history and research are any guide, it's probably you, the daughter, the.

[Podcast Host]

Sister, the wife who will end up managing it all.

[Nicole Khalil]

Because when caregiving calls, it's still women who pick up the phone. I've seen this all firsthand from my previous career in finance, how unprepared families get crushed by the financial fallout of death or disability. And it's not just the bills. It's the resentment, the confusion, the relationships that don't recover. And I know it personally, too. My sister and I are living this now, navigating how to care for our dad, who's losing pieces of himself to what we believe is dementia. Some days he's kind, but most days he's angry, paranoid, and convinced that we're stealing from him.

[Podcast Host]

It's heartbreaking and exhausting trying to protect.

[Nicole Khalil]

Him while being treated like the enemy. And as brutal as it has been, I can't imagine what it would be like if we hadn't had the conversations.

[Podcast Host]

The financial plan, the living trust, the.

[Nicole Khalil]

Clarity of what he wanted before things got bad. Because that's the only thing keeping this from completely breaking us. So I'll say what most people don't.

[Podcast Host]

You need to have these conversations.

[Nicole Khalil]

I don't care about your discomfort or theirs. Get over it. Because trust me, you're trading discomfort now for unbelievable pain later. Have the conversations with your parents, with your partner, with your kids. Hell, even with your best friends. I've told mine exactly what I want so they can back my people up and tell any outsider with an opinion to go fuck off if needed. Because this isn't just about money. It's about love, respect, and protecting the people who will have to care for and clean up after us. Our guest today knows all this better than most.

[Podcast Host]

Beth Pinsker is a financial planning columnist at MarketWatch, a certified financial planner, and.

[Nicole Khalil]

The author of My Mother's A Guide to Financial Caregiving. After caring for her own mother, Beth turned her personal experience and a mountain of expert advice into a compassionate, practical.

[Podcast Host]

Guide for navigating end of life financial decisions.

[Nicole Khalil]

She's here to help us do what most families avoid until it's too late.

[Podcast Host]

Talk about the hard stuff before it becomes impossible.

[Nicole Khalil]

So, Beth, thank you for being our guest. And I want to make sure to give our listeners practical, actionable tips. But I'd like to start by asking.

[Podcast Host]

You to share a bit about your story of being both a financial planner.

[Nicole Khalil]

And having to care for your own mom.

[Beth Pinsker]

Hi. Thank you for having me here today. It's great to be here. My mom was 76 when she went in for back surgery. And she was a fully competent, successful human being at that point. She ran her own life. I didn't have anything to do with it. And she was the person I called for advice on any topic because she always knew how to do everything. And all of a sudden she needed help and I had to go there and do it. You know, you get that phone call, everybody gets one of them. If you're on the list as their person, you're gonna get a call in emergency. So my mom had this surgery coming up and she called me and she said, hey, you know, I'm gonna need some help. Can you come and do whatever it is that needs to be done? And we both thought that this was going to be very temporary. She had never needed that kind of help before. I wasn't sure I could live up to her standards. And, you know, I went down there just not knowing what to expect. And what I got was, you know, a nine month roller coaster of complication after complication and hospital stay and rehab stay and, you know, finally hospice. And then she passed away and. And I ended up taking on full control of her financial life, her daily life, her medical decisions, all the things that you have to do except the daily physical caregiving, because we had people that we hired to do that. And, you know, that was my task, along with a full time job, two teenagers, a dog, a boyfriend, you know, and all the rest of the things that come with life.

[Podcast Host]

And Beth, do you have siblings or was this all on you?

[Beth Pinsker]

I have an older brother who is a very wonderful and competent human being who's very private and doesn't like to be talked about. His 4k was dealing with the doctors. I hated the doctors. I hated dealing with the whole medical establishment. And he was much better at that than I was. And I dealt with the bills because that's my forte. I'm the person in the family, besides my financial training, I'm just the person that gets stuff done. And most of this stuff is not hardcore financial knowledge. It's just being organized and being willing to make the phone calls. And that's what I was able to do the best. But on those eight months, we had to divvy up the labor because, you know, we had no idea what kind of timeframe we were in for. It could have been 10 years for all we knew. And so we both have kids the same age, we both have full time jobs, and we couldn't both be there at the Same time, all the time. So what we did was established a sort of leapfrogging system. He would go for a week, I would go for a week, then he would go back for a week, then I would go for a week, then I would go for two weeks, then he would come. You know, like, we just went back and forth according to who could get off. I'm divorced, and I have every other week custody schedule. And so it was really hard for me to go down there for more than a week because I would miss my time with my kids. And so I would go in between that and my, you know, like, my brother would go when he could.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So correct me if I'm wrong. I'm operating under the assumption. It sounds like your brother was very involved, and that's amazing. I am operating under the assumption, though, that in a lot of cases, in most cases, the caregiving work often falls to the daughters or the sisters or the wives. It's almost always the woman in their relationship who kind of steps up. And maybe it's because that we're used to getting things done or we have the reputation for being able to handle it all. Who knows?

[Nicole Khalil]

But is that actually the case?

[Podcast Host]

Is that what's happening?

[Beth Pinsker]

Absolutely. The majority of family caregivers are women. It hits women in their peak earning, peak career years. 51 is the average age of the family caregiver. And I think 60 to 70% of them are women, according to, like, the AARP study that comes out every year. And, you know, altogether, family caregivers are about 63 million people in the United States. It's not a little group. I mean, every. Almost every one of us is out there doing something. And the scarier number is that 70% of us as human beings are going to face a caregiving situation for ourselves at some point. So already 63 million people are caring for somebody else. 70% of us are gonna need care at some point for us. And the same time that you have to figure out how you're going to care for your parent or an aunt or a friend, you have to figure out who's going to care for you. And that's the situation my mom was in. My mom cared for my grandparents. My mom cared for my father. And, you know, he was sick for four years before he died. I didn't have to do very much in that circumstance because she was there. When my mom had to hire caregivers to help with my dad, it blew up their budget. Like, she didn't know how long that situation would last. Either. And they had to pay out of pocket for that because my dad didn't have any insurance of any kind that would cover that. And she got scared and she needed to talk to somebody about it. And, you know, the caregiving work is a mental load too. And so that's where my caregiving journey started. It was just listening to my mother. Somebody had to be there for her to talk to and know that she was doing the right thing at all of those, at the points along the way with my dad. And so part of it is sometimes it just starts by listening and you have to be available for that. And I have done this myself and I've seen people do it. You get that call, you're busy, it's in the middle of your day and the phone rings and you look at who it is and it's mom or dad, and you're like, oh God. And you have to kind of be on duty for that for a long time and be aware of it to know when it shifts. You have to know when the tone of voice starts to change, when the calls come one after the other asking the same thing and the person doesn't remember that they called before. You know, you have to be watching out for some of that stuff. I would look for little clues. My mom's big tell when she started to get sick was that she didn't want to talk. I would call and she would tell me she was busy, even though I knew she wasn't busy. And, you know, I had to figure out, you know, what was going on, what was she trying not to tell us.

[Podcast Host]

There are a lot of things that are rolling through my mind, one of them, and I don't think we can tackle this, at least not in a few minutes. But you know how frustrating it is that we as a culture and a society don't do a great job taking care of our elderly citizens. And we don't have a lot of support in place. And so it does fall onto us, the children, the relatives, to not just manage but also often provide the care. And that was something my parents and I talked about as they wanted us to be in a position where we could manage the care and not have to provide it. And so long term care insurance came into play. Savings things, you know, having a plan that was always very important to them. And I could not be any more appreciative of that because I don't think any of us wanted to be changing diapers or having to quit jobs or leave families in order to, to provide care. I will also tell you one of the things.

[Nicole Khalil]

I knew it because I'd heard other.

[Podcast Host]

People say it, but I didn't know it at the level until I experienced it myself.

[Nicole Khalil]

How all consuming this can be.

[Podcast Host]

We're talking about a. You know, sometimes minute by minute in your day, it can impact your career, your relationship with your chosen family, with your siblings. With it can. You know, sometimes, like you mentioned, the phone calls I've gotten to the point where I don't answer because I don't know which version I'm going to get. And so I wait to hear the voicemail to have an idea of what I'm walking into. The burden feels all consuming and then.

[Nicole Khalil]

I have a ton of guilt about.

[Podcast Host]

How I consider it an obligation because I my desire is to care for my parents. My desire is for them to lead the best lives they can for as long as they can. You know, there is a desire element.

[Nicole Khalil]

But in it, when you're in it.

[Podcast Host]

In the day to day, I feel a ton of guilt and a ton of overwhelm about how all consuming it is and can be. And it really does impact everything and it does feel like a burden a lot of the time. Any thoughts or reactions there other than I sound like a jerk?

[Beth Pinsker]

We were in the same boat as you and the thing that I the reason I wanted to write this book was because you can pay for a lot of the care. But this financial stuff, because it's so legal related and you have to have a trusted person doing the money stuff that you can't really buy your way out of it and you know, you could be the most wealthy person in the world and if your mother is sick, you still have to be her power of attorney. You know, if, if you're. And if your parents die, you know you're going to be named as the executor on the estate. You may be able to pay for some help to assist you, but at the end of the day, you're the one that's going to have to call the credit card company and, and close the account because your name is on the paperwork as their trusted person. And you can't just hire the same person who changes your mom's diaper, cannot have her ATM card to go to the ATM machine and get her cash. Like those have to be two separate people and the person with the ATM code, you know it for the most part. They have to be either a close family friend or some kind of family member who you trust. And, and not all family members are trustworthy. So you don't want to use them exclusively. And you can hire some trust managers, but those are complicated relationships and you have complicated payment structures, and they're really cumbersome for real people to use. And the people who end up using them are the people who are going to be solo agers who really don't have any family left, but still have affairs that they need to manage. And those people need to hire some sort of company that has, like a longevity to it. Because if you're going to set that up, you know, 20 years before you might be dying, you want to make sure that that person who you hire is still going to be there in 20 years. I think, you know, if you look at like a situation like Gene Hackman, I think Gene Hackman outlasted all of his, you know, lawyers and financial advisors, and they were down to like, third successor trustees on that case. Like, you don't know who's going to go first. And this is why solo agers have such a hard time of it. You know, if you're 65 and all your friends are 65, who's going to manage your affairs? Like, which one of you is going to go first? You don't know. Impossible to know that sort of thing. And so family is going to get stuck with these caregiving tasks. And they're not intuitive. If they were, if they were, if you were able to know how to do this stuff, it would be in a book that I learned in financial planning class. And none of this stuff was in any of the two years of coursework that I encountered in financial planning land.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, okay. So one side thought that popped up when you were talking is if you're working with a financial advisor on your estate planning or succession plan or whatever you want to call it, to ask the question, what's their succession plan? Because most of the time we work with financial advisors or attorneys or CPAs who are our age or older. And so making sure that there are actually going to be people in place who can execute on and follow through on, facilitate the things you put in place, I think is hugely important. So I want to get a little practical and tactical because I kind of got a little snippy at the intro and I said, you know, I don't care how uncomfortable these conversations are, you need to have them. And I acknowledge that they're uncomfortable and hard to have. So what are some of the tips? What are some things that we need.

[Nicole Khalil]

To be talking about?

[Podcast Host]

What are things that we need to kind of check the boxes on to put Ourselves. There is no like, good situation, I don't think, to find ourselves in, like you said, where it's all intuitive and perfectly mapped out and everything goes according to plan. But there are some things that we should be talking about well in advance. What are those things?

[Beth Pinsker]

Who's on your list? Who do you want to take care of you and take care of things for you? And do you have that written down? And if I'm that person, I need a copy of it. And the thing I suggest to people is very simple. Send out an email if you, you know, like I know that I personally, me as a human being am on the list to take care of a whole number of people who aren't actually related to me and some that are related to me. And I don't know where all of those people are with their paperwork. You know, I have a bunch of friends who are aging, who are not married. I have relatives, I have, you know, other people who count on me. And if there's an emergency and I'm going to get that phone call, I need to know, you know, do you have a power of attorney? Do you have a healthcare proxy? Do you have a will or trust or some kind of statement that covers your affairs after you die? And if I'm that person, please send me a copy of it. If you want me to be that person and you don't have any of that paperwork, then here's a link. Download the forms, get them notarized and send me a copy, please. Like that simple. Like it's one email that you can blast out to everybody on your list. Your adult children, your next door neighbor who that you've taken a shine to and counts on you, your single friends, your aunt, your uncle, your parents, you know, whoever it needs to be. If you're going to get that phone call and they don't have those things, you're in a world of pain. Like, the difference is very stark. If you can get those documents, they're generally free. Or you might. For a simple will, for a simple power of attorney and healthcare proxy, you shouldn't be paying more than like 90 to $100 for a will, a couple hundred dollars for a trust, you know, a couple thousand dollars. And if you don't have those things, so take the free power of attorney. If you don't have the free power of attorney and you need it, you're going to court, you're going to need to hire a lawyer. It's going to cost you $18,000 and a year of your life, right if you don't have a law and a.

[Podcast Host]

Lot of pain and friction in relationships and. Yeah, all the things.

[Beth Pinsker]

Yeah, all the things. It's bad you don't like. I've read the cases. You don't want to go to probate court. If you don't have a will and you die without a will, your family is going to have to hire a lawyer after you're dead. That's going to cost way more than it would cost before you die. And they're going to be in probate court for up to. For starting at three years and up to 10 years. It could take a really long time if there are any fights.

[Nicole Khalil]

You.

[Beth Pinsker]

If you get a trust and you spend, you know, four or five thousand dollars on the trust, you escape all the costs of, you know, probating a will after. After you're gone. And those are costs that are not just upfront costs, Right? Like, it's not just the cost for the lawyer to administer the will. It's the fact that you inherited a house from your mom, and you can't sell that house until you have the legal authority to sell that house, which means you have the will in probate court. You have to wait for the letters of administration. Then you have to wait for probate to clear, and that could be a year. You have to pay the mortgage, the taxes, the upkeep, the heat and electric. You know, you have to pay. You have to carry that house until it's legally yours. And that is a lot of money in some cases that people don't have on hand because the estate hasn't settled. And that's even worse if. If you don't have any paperwork at all and you're tied up in court for five years and this property is sitting fallow with nothing you can do about it. And a lot of families end up in that situation because 70% of people in this country do not have a will.

[Nicole Khalil]

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[Podcast Host]

And I just want to reiterate something that you said is it is so important that we have these conversations, but equally as important that it gets put in writing.

[Beth Pinsker]

If it's not in writing, it doesn't mean anything, right?

[Podcast Host]

It doesn't count. Or you can be like, you know, this sibling was like, oh, we had this conversation and another sibling says something different. And then it's like the he said, she said. My opinion, it's again, super convoluted. And just to reiterate up front, most of this stuff is easy and inexpensive or free and somewhat simple.

[Nicole Khalil]

Sure, there are some things that are.

[Podcast Host]

A bit more complicated, a little bit.

[Nicole Khalil]

More costly, but if you need those.

[Podcast Host]

Things, no matter how you slice it, it's all going to be more costly in the back end versus setting it up right in the beginning.

[Nicole Khalil]

Now what would you say?

[Podcast Host]

I've heard this back in the day when I would ask people if they'd had their trust done or their wills or whatever they they would often the reason that they gave for not having done it was because there wasn't agreement on certain things.

[Nicole Khalil]

We don't agree.

[Podcast Host]

Who would take the kids?

[Nicole Khalil]

We don't agree.

[Podcast Host]

You know, spouses might not agree who gets what or what have you. What is your response when somebody says.

[Nicole Khalil]

Well, I don't have it all figured.

[Podcast Host]

Out and that's why I'm delaying putting it all in writing.

[Beth Pinsker]

Figure it out.

[Nicole Khalil]

You said put something.

[Beth Pinsker]

The hard truth is you have to figure it out. Because if you don't figure it out, somebody else is gonna figure it out for you and that person's gonna be a judge and the judge has a rule book, and that rulebook is unflinching. So my husband and I, when we were married and my kids were young, decided that we wanted our friend to be the guardian of our children. But we never put that in writing. Cause we never got around to having to doing our will while we were married. And if something would have happened to both of us, a judge would have decided where my children would have gone to live. And it would not have been with the friend that we had intended, because she's nowhere on the list that goes in front of a judge. Somebody would have said, oh, Beth wanted her kids to go to this person. And the judge would have been like, that person's not a direct blood relative. Not happening. It wasn't until I got divorced. And I was walking home one night on a very icy night, and I thought, if I fall and hit my head, what happens to all my money? And it would go to my children, but it would go to my children in the care of my ex husband. And I didn't like the way he handled money. And so I said, there has to be some way to fix that. And yes, there is indeed. It's a trust. You set up a trust for your kids. And I named my mom as the executor. And so if anything were to happen to me, my money would be there, protected by my mother for my children. And that's why you need to sort of think about these and have some sort of epiphany. And my goal with this book was to live through all of these hard thoughts for people so that they don't actually have to live through that bad situation. Like, I had that scary bad thought coming home one night, I'm gonna tell you about it, and then you don't have to have that scary bad thought. You could just do something. And I'll say that like, I've gone and gotten a trust done. My mom went and got a trust done. It's really no harder than filling out the form when you go to a new doctor. Like, it's really not. You're not writing a trust. You don't have to learn anything about it. You don't have to know how to do brain surgery. Before you go in for an operation, you fill out some forms and the lawyer does it. That's why you hire them. That's why it costs a couple thousand dollars, because it's specialized knowledge. But you don't have to do anything.

[Podcast Host]

And not all of us need trusts.

[Nicole Khalil]

Right?

[Podcast Host]

There is sort of a. I don't know if there's a line of demarcation or whatever. But like in this situation, you might need to trust if you have a certain amount of assets or a certain really complex situation.

[Beth Pinsker]

Yeah, I go through all this in the book, there's a chart, you know, to figure out, like when you need certain things. Like 18 year olds don't need a trust, but an 18 year old absolutely needs a healthcare proxy and a power of attorney. I had to use one the other day just to make a doctor's appointment for my 19 year old. I got them on the phone, he's away college, and I was like, oh, I need to make him a doctor's appointment for winter break. And I call up and they're like, oh, you need a healthcare proxy in order to make an appointment for him. And I'm like, really? Like that must stop a lot of people. Of course I have one because that's who I am. But you need this stuff. That's what you need for an 18 year old or anybody 18 plus, when you have kids, you need to have a will that names a guardian for them that you know aligns with your wishes. If you have a house, you need to either name, you know, you can put it in a will. A trust is more efficient in most states. Some states have what's called a transfer on death deed of some sort. So you could just basically name a beneficiary for the house. But states like California and community property states in general, a trust really helps with the house. Otherwise probate just the courts are so backed up and probate's expensive and you end up just locked up for a really long time. If you want to leave money with any sort of condition on it, say for instance, somebody in your family has an addiction problem or a mental health problem or has a special need of some sort, you need to have a trust for those kind of people. And the evil step parent trope, if you have any sort of blended family, you need a trust because then you have the situation that automatically almost always leads to bad feelings. Right? There are divorces and remarriages and money that you think is intended for the children of the first marriage ends up going to the children of the second marriage. Or the stepmother gets the house sold out from under them and they have to move even though they're 80. You know, every evil step parent scenario that you can come up with could be solved with a simple trust.

[Nicole Khalil]

Right?

[Podcast Host]

Okay, so those are some of the like, legal paperwork, financial things, any other things that you talk about in the book specifically for the person who would be providing the care. Are there things that we should know or have our ducks in a row that, you know, we decide or that we have to communicate? So for example, I think of, you know, you'd said earlier, deciding who you want to care for you. Well, if my mom says, well, I want Nicole to care for me, it's not an automatic yes, I love my mom, I will make sure that she's cared for. I would want to be with her and spend time with her.

[Nicole Khalil]

And I have a full time career.

[Podcast Host]

I have a daughter, I have a family. And so it, it isn't just this automatic. This person gets to decide. Or like this person says, oh, I.

[Nicole Khalil]

Want to live like this. It's like, okay, but the reality is.

[Podcast Host]

You have the finances to live like that.

[Nicole Khalil]

So as the person who's going to.

[Podcast Host]

Be providing the care or managing the.

[Nicole Khalil]

Finances, what are some things that we.

[Podcast Host]

Need to get our ducks in a row on or communicate in order to set ourselves up?

[Beth Pinsker]

Well, yeah, I think that that's where the family conversation comes in. Because you have to know what your boundaries are. And yeah, you cannot by legal fiat put in your will. I don't ever want to go in a nursing home. And your children have to abide by that. Like, this is all a discussion, that's all a negotiation. And so that's where you need to know what your parent really wants. For my mom, the real key was she had very strong feelings about her end of life trajectory. And those are hard conversations to have too. And you know, you have people with different religious beliefs in the same family and different political beliefs. And not everybody's on the same page about, about that kind of stuff. But my mom did not, you know, she wanted a dnr. She wanted do not intubate. She wanted go on hospice care. Like, she wanted control over those sorts of decisions while she had her faculties. And you have to have family members who are willing to allow those decisions to happen. And you know, that takes some convincing. Sometimes that's a sensitive topic. And I would say that when we came to face those decisions, there were a lot of people on hand who were helpful at that stage. Counselors, hospice workers. The whole hospital administration system was set up to sort of help people through that. The estate lawyer. There are people on hand who can help families mediate that last discussion to have. But it's always better to know it ahead of time. Because I think one of the greatest things that gave me peace of mind throughout my whole journey with my mom is that I always knew exactly what she wanted. She was absolutely clear. And I didn't have to feel any of those, like, hard feelings, like, oh my God, I'm killing her. Oh my God, I'm doing the wrong thing. I'm not providing enough care. I'm not doing what she wants. Like, that guilty feeling is awful. She absolved me of that because she was so clear her whole life about what she wanted. You know, we would talk about this when my grandmother was sick and she'd be like, don't do that to me. I don't want what she had. And when my father got sick, she would be like, I'm doing this for him, but don't do that for me. And she made her wishes known and that relieved me of a lot of responsibility for it. And that was psychologically very helpful.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I can attest to that as well. My last question is related, but kind of a little bit of an offshoot. In most marriages or committed long term.

[Nicole Khalil]

Relationships, there's more often than not one.

[Podcast Host]

Person who sort of manages the money or handles the finances.

[Nicole Khalil]

And so I'm going more down the.

[Podcast Host]

Road if in a marriage or in a long term relationship, if one spouse, the spouse who manages all the finances and all that passes away or becomes unable to manage anymore. Any advice of for the other spouse.

[Nicole Khalil]

What are the financial pieces of information we need to know or we need.

[Podcast Host]

To be part of whether or not we're managing the finances. Like, I just don't think we can abdicate the money any longer.

[Beth Pinsker]

I'm watching that one hold in real time right now with a relative. And, you know, it's hard. My mom was the financial manager and of the whole family for her whole life. And so she didn't have any problem with that part of it. But I'm watching this happen now with relatives and the mother in the family is having a hard time with it. The father got sick and was sick for three weeks and that crossed over a bill cycle and bills didn't get paid. They got past due notices and she didn't know where anything was or how anything got paid or where any of the money was. And so, you know, her son had to step in and the purse, it's on the person who is doing the money management. It's their responsibility to make sure that they leave a path that can be followed. You need to leave a breadcrumb trail. You need to make things easy for other people. And if you think you're starting to have trouble with it, you know, ask somebody for Help or make sure that it's all at least automated in the sense that, like, all of my bills are automated. If something happened to me, life would just go on forever. Like, the lights would stay on and everything would function as normal and my affairs would be very easy to follow. But not a lot of people do it that way. And there are accounts hidden here or there and bills that they pay manually. Older people are very fond of writing a check and putting it in the mail. I have no idea why. But you have to make it so that somebody can step in and take care of you. You know, one bank account that you pay from, one credit card that you use. Write down the passwords if you can, have your phone available so that they can two factor, authenticate if they need to. You know, have your statements organized in a folder. Have your life insurance in a folder marked life insurance, for God's sake. You need to make it easy for somebody to find stuff.

[Podcast Host]

I'll also add, I agree with everything that you said. And I will also add that it's all of our responsibility to stay connected and aware. So I manage the household finances for our family, which is ironic because my husband's a financial advisor, but I manage the day to day and where all the accounts are. We always joke around that he doesn't even know where we bank. That's not true. But like, it's, you know, I couldn't cook for myself if something happened to him and he couldn't pay the bills if something happened to me. A joke, but we kind of divide and conquer. But my point being is that it is still both of our responsibility to connect once a month or once a quarter and talk through our finances, that we make big financial decisions together, that he knows where those things are. I don't think we can any longer say, oh, I don't need to know.

[Nicole Khalil]

I trust you, or I don't care or whatever.

[Podcast Host]

Like, Jay said that to me once. He's like, I trust you.

[Nicole Khalil]

And I'm like, great.

[Podcast Host]

And you still need to be involved. Like that doesn't. I appreciate it. And there are certain things that we need to talk about and be connected with and decide together. And I say that mostly because I think in a lot of cases it's women who do the, oh, I don't need to know, or I trust you, or I'm not involved in and I don't know where everything is.

[Nicole Khalil]

And it's like, stop, yes, have the conversations.

[Beth Pinsker]

I'm a divorced lady. I don't trust anybody.

[Nicole Khalil]

I don't like people.

[Podcast Host]

So I don't trust anybody. So we're on the same page.

[Beth Pinsker]

And my executor now and the person who's responsible for me if something happens to me is 19. So, you know, I need to make sure that he understands stuff and that he knows where to go for help because, you know, I have a significant other. But we're not married. And so my 19 year old is currently responsible for me in a worst case scenario. And to me that's terrifying. And I hope nothing ever happens to me. But I'm working on getting him prepared to be an adult and handle stuff like that.

[Podcast Host]

Right. Beth, I have 1 million questions and we could talk about this all day, but I want to make sure people know where to get their hands on your book. So the book is my mother's money. You can order it on Amazon or.

[Nicole Khalil]

Go to your local bookstore.

[Podcast Host]

Let's keep them in business. And Beth's website is bethpinsker.com we'll put.

[Nicole Khalil]

All the links and all the ways.

[Podcast Host]

To find and follow Beth in show notes.

[Nicole Khalil]

Thank you for writing this book, for.

[Podcast Host]

Turning what I imagine was just challenging and hard and all the things into something practical and helpful for all of us. And thank you for being here today.

[Beth Pinsker]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Podcast Host]

My pleasure.

[Nicole Khalil]

All right, here's what I hope you.

[Podcast Host]

Take away from this conversation.

[Nicole Khalil]

Love isn't just phone calls, memories, and.

[Podcast Host]

Showing up for birthdays.

[Nicole Khalil]

Sometimes love looks like spreadsheets, signatures, and.

[Podcast Host]

The courage to talk about things that nobody wants to face.

[Nicole Khalil]

Avoidance doesn't protect you or them.

[Podcast Host]

It just defers and compounds the pain.

[Nicole Khalil]

Yours and the people you care most about. So have the conversations, make the plans, get the paperwork in order. Don't wait for the emergency or the diagnosis or the someday that turns into too late. Because this is what real care looks like. It's hard, it's messy, and it's deeply human. But it's also one of the greatest gifts you can give. Choice, clarity, and dignity for the people.

[Podcast Host]

You love and their legacy.

[Nicole Khalil]

And let me be clear, you will never catch me saying that caregiving is woman's work. We get that message far too often already.

[Podcast Host]

Caregiving is everyone's work because caring for.

[Nicole Khalil]

The people we love while still honoring.

[Podcast Host]

Ourselves might be be some of the.

[Nicole Khalil]

Hardest and holiest work we'll ever do.

[Podcast Host]

And that is woman's work.

[Bloomberg Advertiser]

You know the words that dominate our news cycle?

[Beth Pinsker]

Private equity keeps investing capital gains tax on.

[Podcast Host]

Individual stocks.

[Bloomberg Advertiser]

But do you truly understand how they impact your world and your wallet? In a world that skims the what? Understand the why. Because context changes everything. Subscribe to Learn [e-mail] the global benchmark for business news.