Podcast Summary: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil

Episode 364: “Powerfully Likable with Dr. Kate Mason”

Release Date: November 24, 2025
Host: Nicole Kalil
Guest: Dr. Kate Mason, Executive Communications Coach and Author

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the concept of being “powerfully likable,” especially for women navigating personal and professional environments. Nicole and Dr. Kate Mason discuss why women often feel forced to choose between being powerful or likable, and how to find an authentic space where both can coexist. The conversation dives into strategies for tapping into genuine personal power, improving communication, and breaking free from traditional molds and “supposed-tos,” ultimately encouraging listeners to shape their unique version of “woman’s work.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power-Likability Binary

Timestamps: 01:17 – 05:14

• Nicole frames the core issue: Women are often made to feel they must choose between being powerful (assertive, impactful) or likable (warm, agreeable).
  • Quote: “I could fill this whole episode with all the ways this feels like a double edged sword... All the times we've been told that we have to choose one or the other.” (01:16, Nicole)
• Many women tend to default to likability due to early socialization, while Nicole shares her own experience of power coming more naturally—sometimes at the expense of likability.
• Dr. Mason introduces the concept:
  • “The powerful and likable binary... does feel like this one way choice... Part of the project of the book is actually unraveling that and saying there are tons of ways between those two poles to be able to show up.” (04:03, Dr. Mason)
• The goal is to find an authentic, calm, “unruffled” space where communication feels both powerful and likable.

2. Authentic Power and Communication Styles

Timestamps: 05:14 – 09:40

• Nicole: “Sometimes we think powerful looks one way and likable looks one way. And what I'm hearing... is there are lots of ways to be both of those things.”
• Dr. Mason: Emphasizes that power and likability are subjective and that people can find power in collaborative, empathetic, or rapport-building qualities—not just stereotypical leadership traits.
  • Quote: “Instead of ‘you're all doing it wrong and here are three things you need to do’... Where are you currently actually powerful?” (05:33, Dr. Mason)
• The journey is individual: Identify where you already thrive and double down on those strengths instead of forcing a prescribed model.

3. Techniques for Finding a Calm, Comfortable Place to Communicate

Timestamps: 06:56 – 09:40

• Dr. Mason advises clients to map when and where they feel powerful and comfortable—what conditions (environments, preparation levels) allow them to show up at their best.
  • Example: A client who prefers client meetings in casual environments to lower self-consciousness.
• “Calm” doesn’t mean unemotional but refers to being unruffled and steady—bringing stability into conversations for greater impact.

4. The Double-Edged Sword of Preparation

Timestamps: 09:40 – 12:58

• Women in particular tend to over-prepare as a defense mechanism; over-preparation can dampen creativity and flexibility.
  • Quote: “At some point in our career that starts to become unsustainable...so sometimes the downside of that preparation can actually be that we don't allow ourselves to show up in the best way we can in that interaction.” (10:03, Dr. Mason)
• Dr. Mason introduces the “15-minute framework” adapted from her debate background—light, time-bound preparation fosters agility and allows natural energy to shine through.
  • Quote: “Setting a time bound framework for yourself is one way to think about reducing that preparatory burden.” (12:10, Dr. Mason)

5. Managing Emotional Responses (“Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn”)

Timestamps: 14:01 – 17:06

• Dr. Mason discusses four threat responses in communication:
  • Fight: defensiveness or aggression.
  • Flight: avoidance.
  • Freeze: shutting down, “my brain and my mouth no longer coordinate.” (21:42, Nicole)
  • Fawn: minimizing oneself, disclaimers (“It'll just take a sec.”), self-undercutting.
• Quote: “We forget in the corporate context that we're actually animals... The thing that's setting us off is, you know, not a physical predator, but, you know, an email from someone called Greg.” (21:50, Dr. Mason)
• Recognizing your own and others’ patterns opens up better ways of self-regulation and de-escalation during high-stress moments.
  • Example script: “We need to come back with fresh eyes.” (15:09, Dr. Mason)

6. The Power of Customization and Authenticity

Timestamps: 25:03 – 28:53

• There’s no universal, three-step process; “communication is super complex and... custom to all of us” (25:46, Dr. Mason). The episode emphasizes mapping personal patterns—when you feel most powerful, when you’re triggered, and what helps you reset (hype songs, physical grounding, etc.).
• Dr. Mason warns against over-performing a role that doesn’t fit, sharing her own journey moving away from a hyper-masculine debating approach to a style that integrates warmth with incisiveness.
  • Quote: “The worst thing... is to perform a different persona that is not you... It's very, very exhausting and longer-term, unsustainable.” (25:46, Dr. Mason)

7. Redefining Confidence and Rejecting “Fake It Till You Make It”

Timestamps: 28:22 – 28:53

• Nicole: “It's going to be really hard to trust yourself if you practice your way into the belief... in order to do well, you have to be someone else.”
• Dr. Mason: “It's why I hate the fake it till you make it.” (28:42, Dr. Mason)
• Nicole’s reframing: “I've replaced it with choose it until you become it.” (28:46)

8. Lessons from Debate: The Power of Relational Persuasion

Timestamps: 29:23 – 34:05

• Debate is zero-sum, but the workplace requires long-term collaboration.
• Key shift: Instead of focusing on “winning” arguments, focus on “choosing your win” and considering what you need to achieve together.
  • Powerful questions: “Tell me more about what you're thinking... What would someone in my function be excelling at that would help your team?” (29:23, Dr. Mason)
• Build shared goals and explore the “win” for yourself, your counterpart, and the greater team or business.
  • Quote: “Even your most vitriolic enemy in the business—there's probably something that you share... a collective North Star for the business.” (33:00, Dr. Mason)

9. Impose vs. Imposter Syndrome and the First Next Step

Timestamps: 35:11 – 36:42

• Dr. Mason introduces “imposing syndrome”—the fear of making asks or being a burden (“They’re going to hate me if I…”).
  • Instead of disqualifying or downplaying, practice making clear, unadorned asks: “I've put in 30 minutes for us to catch up on this issue. Let me know if that time works for you.” (35:11, Dr. Mason)
• Nicole relates personally, noting she experiences imposing syndrome more than imposter syndrome.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Power doesn't have to mean harsh or arrogant. In fact, it probably doesn't. And likability doesn't have to mean small and self-sacrificing. In fact, it probably doesn't.” (37:54, Nicole)
• “Maybe the question isn't ‘can you be powerful and likable at the same time?’ The question is, ‘What is your version of powerfully likable?’” (38:14, Nicole)

Actionable Frameworks & Advice

• Personal Power Inventory: Regularly reflect on when and where you feel most powerful and most activated, mapping your patterns.
• Customized Regulation Tool: Find your body-and-mind reset strategy (music, exercise, fresh air, etc.) to bring your “unruffled” self to difficult situations.
• Authentic Scripts: Ditch unnecessary apologies/disclaimers; practice direct, confident asks.
• Focus on Shared Wins: Prioritize collaborative goals and relational data over unilateral “winning.”
• Preparation Framework: Limit prep time intentionally to increase agility and authenticity.

Useful Timestamps

• 01:17 – Power vs. likability intro (Nicole’s personal struggle)
• 04:03 – Dr. Mason explains “powerfully likable”
• 06:56 – Techniques to find a calm communication space
• 10:03 – The downside to over-preparation
• 14:01 – Fight, flight, freeze, fawn communication responses
• 21:50 – Animal brain triggers in work life
• 25:03 – Customizing communication and mapping patterns
• 28:46 – Replacing “fake it till you make it” with “choose it until you become it”
• 29:23 – What debate teaches about true persuasion
• 33:00 – Building shared goals with adversaries
• 35:11 – From imposter to imposing syndrome; shifting the ask

Final Thoughts

The episode is an empowering, nuanced exploration of how women can redefine both power and likability to serve their real selves—not a predetermined, performative role. Nicole and Dr. Mason encourage listeners to craft individualized approaches to confidence, communication, and influence—supported by practical reflection, self-awareness, and genuine connection.

For further strategies and frameworks, listeners are encouraged to read Dr. Mason’s book, Powerfully Likable.

For links and resources mentioned, check the show notes at Nicole Kalil’s site or search for “Powerfully Likable by Dr. Kate Mason.”