Podcast Summary: "QUALIFIED: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work with Shari Dunn" | Episode 284

Podcast Information:

• Title: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
• Host: Nicole Kalil, Bleav
• Episode: QUALIFIED: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work with Shari Dunn
• Release Date: February 26, 2025
• Description: In this episode, host Nicole Kalil delves into the intricate dynamics of what it truly means to be "qualified" in today's workplace. Featuring Shari Dunn, an accomplished journalist and author, the conversation explores how competency checking intersects with race, creating systemic barriers for women and people of color.

Introduction to the Topic

Nicole Kahlil opens the episode by posing a critical question about the true meaning of being "qualified" in professional settings. She challenges the conventional use of the term, suggesting that it often serves to maintain the status quo and exclude certain groups.

"Too often, qualified becomes code for maintaining the status quo, for creating more of the same, and for keeping certain people out while ushering others in."
— Nicole Kahlil [01:12]

Guest Introduction: Shari Dunn

Nicole introduces Shari Dunn, an accomplished journalist, former attorney, CEO, university professor, and author of "How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work." Dunn's work focuses on deconstructing the myths surrounding qualifications and exposing the systemic barriers that prevent equitable workplace advancement.

Historical Context of Qualifications

Shari Dunn provides a historical perspective on how the concept of qualifications has evolved to exclude marginalized groups. She highlights that initial entry into elite institutions was based on socio-economic status rather than merit.

"If we look at higher education in the United States, especially elite universities, initially, in order to be qualified to attend those institutions, you just had to be rich, white and Protestant."
— Shari Dunn [04:11]

Dunn explains that as outgroup members (e.g., Jewish individuals in the 1920s) sought entry into these institutions, the standards shifted to incorporate tests and additional requirements, thereby increasing barriers to entry.

Competency Checking Defined

The conversation shifts to the core concept of competency checking—a term coined by Dunn to describe how evaluations of competency are disproportionately stringent for underrepresented groups.

"Competency checking is the ways in which black other people of color and women are checked repeatedly for their competency, knowledge, and skills and being held to a higher, more complex standard for hiring or advancement and retention."
— Shari Dunn [11:44]

Dunn emphasizes that this practice doesn't necessarily assess actual skills but serves as a mechanism to maintain existing power structures.

Impact on the Talent Pipeline

When Nicole inquires about the commonly cited "broken talent pipeline," Dunn clarifies that the issue isn't a lack of talent but the presence of blockages within the pipeline itself.

"The pipeline is blocked. It's not broken."
— Shari Dunn [10:11]

She uses the metaphor of a fine wire mesh exerting extruding force, preventing diverse talent from passing through, thereby creating the illusion of a depleted pipeline.

Personal Experiences and Competency Checking

Nicole shares her personal experience of feeling the need to continuously prove herself, contrasting it with her male counterparts who seemingly advance based on perceived potential without similar scrutiny.

"I can remember very first frequently feeling like my male counterparts were often identified, promoted, and given opportunities based on perceived potential. Whereas I felt like I was constantly needing to prove myself over and over and over again."
— Nicole Kahlil [15:27]

Shari Dunn confirms that such experiences are quintessential examples of competency checking, where individuals from marginalized groups must consistently validate their competence to gain the same opportunities afforded to others.

"You are in a situation where some people are given the benefit of the doubt... people who are being held to a higher standard have way less wiggle room to failure."
— Shari Dunn [16:05]

Strategies to Remove Blockages

The podcast delves into actionable strategies to dismantle competency checking and other systemic barriers:

1. Self-Auditing and Process Evaluation:

   • Dunn advises leaders to audit their hiring and promotion processes to identify patterns of bias.
   • "People need to audit themselves. They need to audit their processes and their instruments."
     — Shari Dunn [19:20]

2. Inclusive Job Descriptions:

   • Involving multiple stakeholders, especially those performing the roles, to ensure that qualifications listed are genuinely necessary.
   • "Can we look at all of our job descriptions or the qualifications that we look for and pull in multiple people, especially the people who are actually doing the job?"
     — Nicole Kahlil [23:21]

3. Reducing Reliance on Referral-Based Hiring:

   • Recognizing that referral systems often favor existing demographics and creating more equitable hiring practices.
   • "The referral based system tends to favor white people because it's just a numbers game."
     — Shari Dunn [19:20]

4. Awareness and Collective Action:

   • Encouraging collective efforts to challenge and change the underlying systems rather than placing the onus solely on individuals.
   • "We can engage in collective action to fix it."
     — Shari Dunn [32:12]

Reframing Imposter Syndrome

The discussion transitions to imposter syndrome, where Shari Dunn argues that what is often labeled as imposter syndrome is a misidentification of systemic issues.

"Imposter syndrome is just patriarchy and white supremacy repackaged."
— Shari Dunn [27:10]

She contends that feelings attributed to imposter syndrome are actually responses to being in hostile environments not designed for inclusion.

"The problem is not that your insecurity is what's making you feel like an imposter. What's making you feel like an imposter is being in spaces that are hostile, that are not designed for you and that don't want you."
— Shari Dunn [27:10]

Dunn advocates for shifting the conversation from individual self-improvement to systemic change, emphasizing collective action to create inclusive environments.

Conclusion and Call to Action

In her concluding remarks, Nicole Kahlil reinforces the key messages of the episode:

"The talent pipeline isn't broken. It's the assumptions we make about who belongs in the pipeline that need fixing. Competency checking. It's not about ensuring people are qualified. It's about creating barriers for those who already are."
— Nicole Kahlil [34:23]

She urges leaders and organizations to critically evaluate their hiring and promotion practices to foster truly equitable workplaces.

Final Takeaways

• Qualification Standards: Qualifications have historically been manipulated to exclude marginalized groups rather than objectively assess skill and competency.
• Competency Checking: A systemic barrier where underrepresented groups are held to higher standards, hindering their advancement.
• Imposter Syndrome: Often a misattribution, where systemic hostility induces feelings typically labeled as imposter syndrome.
• Actionable Solutions: Auditing processes, inclusive job descriptions, reducing referral biases, and fostering collective action are essential to dismantle these barriers.
• Collective Responsibility: Everyone, including those from marginalized groups, plays a role in recognizing and addressing systemic biases to create inclusive environments.

Resources Mentioned:

• Shari Dunn's Book: Qualified: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work – Available at thesherrydunne.com
• Shari Dunn's Website: thesherrydunne.com

Note: This summary excludes the advertisements and non-content sections present in the transcript to maintain focus on the substantive discussions between Nicole Kalil and Shari Dunn.