Amanda Kuda (3:50)

Absolutely. And you know, Nicole, I would love to say that I have like this really tumultuous relationship with alcohol that made it so obvious that I needed to quit drinking, but I didn't. And that actually made it really difficult for me to come to this place in my life where I had to, wanted to, decided to make a, make a decision for my own mental, physical, spiritual and emotional health. And my decision came, you know, quite a bit earlier than, I think, a lot of people who choose to renegotiate their relationship with alcohol. And I know that because, because I work with those women. And typically you're making that decision in your mid-30s, 40s, or 50s. And I started to get this inkling when I was in my late 20s. Something just wasn't stacking up for me. Nicole. I had the glitzy job. I was written up in one of like the posh society magazines as one of the 20 under 30 young professionals to watch. I was speaking on stages, I owned a home and was rubbing elbows in the prominent social circles. I had a, you know, advanced degree. All of these things that I had worked so hard for but that, you know, really were this American dream. And I felt so dissatisfied. I felt so lost. I felt so underwhelmed with the life that I had built for myself. And on top of that, I felt kind of like an asshole for feeling underwhelmed because I had so much more. I was a first generation college student. You know, my family grew up on food stamps. So I felt like, so, wow, I should be so feel so privileged and so, you know, in adoration of my life. And I didn't. And something felt Off. And so I kind of started going on this soul searching journey of how can I get to that feeling that I want? And I was introduced to new Age spirituality and personal development right around my 28th birthday. And I dove into it headfirst. And I really was doing everything that I could gather up to optimize my life. I was going to yoga and working out and tracking, you know, my meals. I was meditating, I was praying, I was journaling, I was going on retreats. I was doing all of the things that would have technically shifted my life. I had enrolled in therapy and nothing was moving the needle. And so finally I started to look at my life a little more critically. And I looked at, okay, well, Monday through Friday I'm doing all these amazing mindful things. But then Friday at 5:30, I switched into work hard, play hard. And my weekend was completely mindless. And while that was only, you know, 72 hours of my week, I didn't realize the damage I was doing, the setback that I was creating for myself to get back into the groove on Monday morning. And when I looked at that as a young professional single woman, that really was a harsh wake up call because I did not want to quit drinking. I was a social drinker. I didn't have a problem with alcohol. And yet all roads led to, this is the thing that's holding you back. And so, you know, I tried my darndest to figure out moderation and just to cut back on alcohol. And I'm sure we'll talk about this a little bit, but at the end of the day, that just took up too much of my brain power and was too much effort. So finally in 2017, I decided I was just going to quit and try and experiment. And that experiment changed my entire life. And that is why I am here doing the work that I do today.

Nicole Khalil (7:03)

You know, I kind of love that your story wasn't maybe what we might expect. Right. Like you had this severe problem and you hit rock bottom and it was destroying your life, but rather curiosity and exploration of how to be and feel your best self again. I'm probably going to say this so many times, I just love the making the best choice for you. Especially when I'm sure in your 20s might not have been the most popular decision with other people or might have made things harder in some ways or made you feel different. I don't know. We'll get into that. Before we do, I would love if you would make the distinction between sober and sober Curious.

Amanda Kuda (7:54)

Sure. And you know, I think that you get to choose words that make the most sense for you. But the like it or not, the branding of the word sober and sobriety is addiction and recovery. AA kind of put their claim on, you know, stuck their claim on that word and, and intentionally. And that's great for that community. Who needs that nomenclature specifically? But for me, the word sober was really intimidating because it indicated that I had a problem and wanted, wanted to, needed to, had to be in this specific group because I was powerless over alcohol. And guess what? If that's your path, that's okay. But I didn't feel congruent going into those spaces because that wasn't my story. And so here I am left with, well, then I guess I just have to figure alcohol out because I don't want to be sober. I can't say I'm sober. I can't say I'm powerless over alcohol. And that was really confusing for me. And just around that same time, one of my colleagues, a gal named Ruby Warrington, had started toying around with this phrasing of sober curious. Someone who is, you know, wanting to maybe dabble in sobriety, but, you know, doesn't want to say that they're sober, doesn't want to make any sort of specific commitments. They just want to learn a little bit more about it. And I think that what she did was really brilliant because it helped shift the trajectory of our ability to think differently or open up to a possibility just because there was a slightly different name tag we got to wear. And that was really helpful for me because I didn't feel like I had the permission to say I was sober. But sober curious was something I could play around with. And I think that a lot of people feel that way. We just need a permission slip to explore something that before was off limits unless you met specific criteria.

Nicole Khalil (9:32)

Makes perfect sense. And kind of on that topic of. And I'm just going to put in air quotes, permission, that feeling that we often feel like we need that. I would imagine for many people, one of the challenges is thinking about how to be sober, Sober, curious in certain situations or with certain people. Mostly social, mostly celebratory, mostly large groups. Talk to us a little bit about sort of maneuvering your way through that for our listeners who are considering.

Amanda Kuda (10:06)

Oh, for sure. And that was, I have to tell you, Nicole, my biggest fear when I first started out and most people's biggest fear, that there'll be a social outcast, that they'll be rejected by their existing friends, and then there will be no one else out there, because of course, everyone drinks, and if you don't, then you're probably just a fuddy duddy. And I had that perception, of course. I thought that I would get, you know, excommunicated from all of my friend groups, and then who would I be? No one. And by the way, I just moved to a new city. I just moved to Austin when I decided to quit drinking. I'd invested a year in making new friends, and now I was like, great, well, now I'm going to get kicked out of that group, so I have to start all over again. And in some way, that was empowering for me because I already knew that I could do it. But even if I wouldn't have moved, what I can tell you now with certainty is that if you approach this decision as something you are doing for yourself, that you desire to do that, it's an opportunity for you. And we can talk about how you can shift your mindset into that way of thinking, but if you approach it in that way, people are going to react and respond to you differently. If you act like an eeyore and act like, oh, I'm such a pain, I'm such a drag because I don't drink, people will respond to you as such. But I decided in my, you know, however, I made this decision that I was just going to do it as a positive thing. And so I didn't give my friends in my social circle the opportunity to criticize me for it. I just went in with this brazen confidence that this is what I'm doing right now, and come hell or high water, I'm going to make it through. And I will say that there were certain occasions where I felt a little awkward because it so many things so much revolve around alcohol. It really feels like when you do X, Y, Z, that you have to. You're supposed to drink. And of course, when you go to a happy hour, that is the central activity. So I think the big thing that we have to realize is that, yes, your life is going to need to probably make some shifts because you're not going to feel comfortable at some of those events, like happy hours or big boozy brunches or whatever, if you're not drinking. And I want to encourage you that you might still enjoy it, but the reality is it's an opportunity for you to figure out what does Amanda, what does Nicole, what does whoever you are, what do you like? What do you enjoy? And can't you just spend your time doing more of that instead of trying to Figure out how to do these events that you actually probably don't enjoy.

Nicole Khalil (12:24)

Right? Yeah. I mean, I know plenty of people have fomo. I have Jomo. Right. Like, the joy of missing out. So having reasons to not go to some of those things is actually exciting for me. But I guess from your personal experience and all the work that you do in coaching, do you find that people more often than not, continue to go to these things and they just figure out their way of doing that, whether that's having fun anyway or mocktails or whatever the case may be? Do you find they tend to avoid those types of things or sort of somewhere in the middle where they figure out their rhythm? Like, what are people typically doing when they make this decision?

Amanda Kuda (13:09)

Yes. Well, I always encourage you to explore and go out and experiment, because so many of us, you know, it's sometimes part of our jobs to network, and we have to go out to some of these activities and some of these events, and we just have to figure it out. And the reality is, I imagine a lot of your audience are mothers, and you figured it out when you were caring for someone else inside of your body. So why can't you figure it out for yourself inside of your own body? That's, you know, one piece of it. And so I find that if we go, if we approach it knowing, hey, sometimes I just have to grin and bear it. And guess what? Sometimes I can have a really great time if I focus my energy on that. But I work with a lot of women who also identify as highly sensitive and maybe a lot of people who are neurodivergent in some way. And when you are a little more sensitive and attuned to the environment around you, sometimes what alcohol actually did to you or did for you is numb your mind out so that you're not getting overstimulated. And when you go into those environments, what you realize is, number one, you're overstimulated from the sound and the chaos and all of that. And number two, because you are very sensitive, you're wired. You're re. You're really wired for deep connection. And it's very difficult to have deep connection and authentic, vulnerable conversations in those environments. And so what I find is that you start to be dissatisfied with it because it's taking more than it's giving. And so more often than not, I find that, yes, we have a, you know, a certain amount of events and. And obligations that we want to learn to stomach and want and can learn to have fun. Like hell I've gone to music festivals and still had an amazing time because I like that activity. But there's other things that I realized, wow, that's overstimulating and under fulfilling because I don't get to connect and so I choose not to participate or to really limit my participation. And that actually feels like a superpower because I get to gain time back by not doing things I actually don't enjoy. And wow, what a wake up call that was for me.

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Nicole Khalil (17:04)

Code space80@talkspace.com okay, so then I liked what you said earlier about when you approach this decision from a place of, this is what's best for me. And there is a confidence about it that people will respond accordingly. I believe that to be true. And I also know there are some jerks and some people who are completely disconnected or don't think in the moment. And it's almost inevitable that somebody's gonna be like, come on, or why or whatever in those moments. Any tips for either language to use or ways to deal with people having opinions about your choices?

Amanda Kuda (17:46)

Yeah, for sure. So when you are sharing this with anyone, the first thing is, yeah, your energy. Are you coming off with confidence? And the second is your language. And, you know, I think that having a little miniature script or a little formula to go off of is really helpful. So I always set people up with a formula that's something like this, I am not drinking. And then add a time frame. And so it's definite. I'm not drinking, period. Boom. And then add a time frame right now for the next 90 days through the end of the year, for the next 30 days, because. And then add something that is a feeling based and internal thing that people cannot argue with. It is an inarguable truth. I don't like the way that it makes me feel. And I want to see how I feel without it. And I want to give it a solid chance to see how I feel without it. Boom. The end. Because if you do something, you know, I was having this conversation with a client yesterday and she was like, ah, I'll tell them I'm driving. And I'm like, nope, you won't. Because even if you are driving, that's a problem for them to solve. Because guess what? Oh, just have one. You can get an Uber if someone tries to argue with how you feel internally and that you want to feel better and that you've noticed from your own intuitive standpoint that alcohol does not help you do that. That is a person you're not mixing with for a minute. Okay, they don't. Maybe it's just their bedside manner is not the best. But also maybe they don't have your best. Your best int. Intentions at heart. And so I like setting it up with a definite statement, a time frame, and an inarguable internal reason. And if we can do it like that, people are much less likely to go against you. And if they do, I would honestly just kind of close off the conversation and walk away and say, hey, it's not up for discussion. I really hope that you can choose to support me in this and. Whoa, What a power move. A scary power move. But it is a power move to make, to say, hey, this is how it is, and you can choose. I really hope that you choose to support me. And usually that will shut people up. I. I think it's very rare that we encounter a true bully, and. And I hope that no one has that experience.

Nicole Khalil (19:45)

Yeah. So phenomenal formula. Also, great plan B, right? If somebody's not respecting the formula. And I think that can be applied to literally any choice we make that people might question or challenge or whatever. It's just such a solid approach. I will also add, only because it's happened to me a few times where I won't be drinking or I'll have, you know, like a glass of bubbly water in my hand or whatever. Ladies, we need to stop doing this to each other. And it's typically women who do it to women. It's like, ooh, why aren't you drinking? Do you have something to tell us? For fuck's sake. If they wanted you to know that they were pregnant, they would have fricking told you. They wouldn't have done some Jedi mind trick about what they're drinking. So, yeah, let's stop doing that altogether. That was my little side note.

Amanda Kuda (20:33)

Anyway, I agree 100% ridiculous.

Nicole Khalil (20:36)

Okay, so let's talk about why. We've talked about a few things personally, but generally speaking, why are people starting to choose life of sobriety, and what are all the benefits?

Amanda Kuda (20:50)

So some of the reasons that you might choose on the surface, and some of the benefits that are really obvious. I mean, if you are on a health wellness optimization journey of any kind, alcohol reeks havoc on your body. It disrupts all of your vital organs at the cellular level. It changes the way your entire body functions because essentially it's fighting off alcohol as a toxin. And I don't like to go down to, like, the doom and gloom path, but it is what it is. And unfortunately, it just completely corrupts your entire system. No matter how much or how little you drink, unless you're drinking, like something in a tincture and it's like less than a tablespoon, your body has to fight it off. And so if you want better sleep, clearer skin, more effective workouts, and body optimization, if you want to have a clear, more clear and consistent high emotions, you know, if you struggle with depression and anxiety, often we use this substance as a kind of cure all for that. Doesn't work. If you want to live an optimized life, one of the fastest ways of doing so is to remove alcohol from the picture and see what that does. And the benefits that you'll see there are tremendous. But I think that the bigger benefits that I like to go for are some of the things that are intangible. So when I quit drinking and a lot of the women who I work with are like this, like, sure, of course they want to feel better, they want to sleep better, they want to save money, all of those things. But they sense that they are meant for something more, something bigger, something more magnificent in their lives. And they're feeling discontent, they're feeling off track, they're feeling stuck. Even though, like me, I was successful and I was going to make my dreams happen come hell or high water. But let me tell you what my dreams in the last. I've not drank in eight years. It took me five years for all but one really of my biggest dreams to come true. And that's Oprah. And I know we're getting close, girl, but every one of my wildest dreams came true in such a short period of time once I got alcohol out of the way. And so I really want to speak to that, you know, woman who feels like something's holding her back. She's doing pretty good, but she's feeling still really stuck and discontent. And she knows that there's something bigger and better and more wonderful out there for her. And I think that if you approach it from that person, I know that if you approach it from that perspective, you're going to get a much easier journey because you're doing it for that someday win goal that, yeah, it's intangible, but you're going to get there so much more quickly if you don't have the barrier of alcohol in the way.

Nicole Khalil (23:13)

So Amanda, you're the expert. I'm going to just throw this out there to get your experience and expertise on it. But is there some element too of. I think as women we tend to carry around a lot more guilt and shame like just anyway in our normal day to day lives. And you add in the feelings sometimes you have the morning after drinking or the what did I say? Or did I represent myself the best? Like, is there any element of wanting to release and let go some of those not so great feelings that tend to come along with drinking or drinking too much?

Amanda Kuda (23:54)

Oh, absolutely. You know, I, the kids call it hangxiety. They make it sound so cute and it's not cute. I've. I had that feeling no matter how little I drank, there was just this like internal niggling that something was going amiss and that I had done something wrong or things were crumbling. And I did not like that feeling. It does not feel good to go through your day feeling like something is off kilter. And so there's that after feeling of, you know, shame, remorse, guilt, you know, maybe even just on a deeper level, that feeling of, wow, now I've made it so difficult to be my biggest me, my fullest me, my most present and centered and creative me. And that sometimes creates a sense of longing that, you know, you can't be the you that you are meant to be when you're feeling a little sluggish. And so, yeah. What would your life be like if you could completely. Well, you know, not completely because there's still, there's still some inner work to do, but the inner work is easier to do when you're not operating at half capacity. What would your life be like if you didn't waste all those hours sulking and feeling anxious and feeling hungover and feeling that anxiety feeling. Let me tell you, as someone who's been feeling it for eight years or not feeling it for eight years, it's pretty miraculous. And I feel so good and so on point that I wouldn't trade that feeling for anything.

Nicole Khalil (25:14)

Yeah. So I want to dive a little deeper into something we actually started talking about before we hit record. And you just mentioned a little bit, there is this wasted time. You know, I have yet to meet a woman who's like, I couldn't use an extra hour in a day or, you know, what I wouldn't do with a few hours a week. Where does being sober impact time and energy?

Amanda Kuda (25:38)

Yeah, you know, I have all of my clients and students do this activity, and it's one that I mention in my book, which is where you take a rough guess at how many hours you, you, you spend in your week planning to drink, you know, figuring out the social schedule, drinking and recovering from drinking. And when you look at just that broad number, it's going to be pretty staggering. But then what I'm able to do is I, I have the gift of, you know, I can look in the rearview mirror and realize that when I was going out drinking, I actually wasn't feeling back at a hundred percent. After my hangover was gone, I wasn't feeling in, you know, I was a weekend warrior, so let's say Friday, Saturday, Sunday, but I wasn't feeling percent until kind of Thursday. So then what? I have a good day and a half before I'm back at it again. I didn't Know how sluggish and foggy and uncreative and unmotivated I was because I was just one of those push through and get done kind of gals. But I didn't realize how much faster the synapses could be firing and how much more like, vibrant and energetic I would, could and would feel until I got some space from alcohol. So I can tell you now that, yeah, I was operating at that dismal capacity for a lot of the week. And that is really shocking. But then I think the other thing that's really shocking, Nicole, is when I started trying to like, renegotiate my relationship with alcohol. And this is because of my personal personality type. I don't know if you ever talk about, like, different archetypes like Myers Briggs or Enneagram, and I know people are obsessed with those. So there's two really simple archetypes that a podcaster and author, Gretchen Rubin introduced in their moderators and abstainers. And moderators typically find their resolve if they get to have personal choice. And a lot of people really covet the Persona of a moderator because they think that that's the holy grail, that you just have the best of both worlds. You, you know, it's balance, it's whatever, it's really glamorized. But when I learned about these two archetypes, what I realized is I'm an abstainer. I'm someone who actually does better with all or nothing goals because then I don't have to spend my brain power trying to figure out how to moderate. And if you're investing a lot of brain power, which I was trying to figure out, moderation, that it might just be that you are someone who is better served because you are most authentically an abstainer. And when I that clicked for me and I realized, wow, I've really been spinning my wheels trying to figure out this alcohol thing. I could free up all that time by just saying no. It's a no for me. And again, that was a hard decision. That was a tough, bold decision to make. But it freed up an infinite amount of time, space and mental energy that I was able to spend on pursuing my dreams and pursuing my life. And wow, it was just really miraculous.

Nicole Khalil (28:21)

Lots of things to chew on there. I love the distinction between moderators and abstainers. Is that what you call them?

Amanda Kuda (28:28)

Yeah, exactly.

Nicole Khalil (28:30)

I always think there is a measure of self awareness that is so important when we make big decisions for ourselves. So what would you recommend as first steps or next steps? So I would imagine if somebody's decided to be sober at this point, they're already working on it, right? So somebody's sober, curious. And you mentioned this earlier, like a timeframe. What would you recommend as a way to explore that curiosity?

Amanda Kuda (28:58)

For sure. Taking a consistent consecutive break from alcohol. And a lot of people will start with this 30 day. You know, I think that you were going to air this in January, so you might be doing dry January or maybe you're doing another dry month where you decided to take a 30 day consecutive break. That's a great place to dip your toe in the water. But I really want to encourage you that you're not going to see the full benefits overnight. And really you're not going to see them in 30 days because your body is still recalibrating. And especially for women of our age where our hormones are starting to change and do some other fun, exciting things, you really want to give your body at minimum 90 to 100 days to start seeing the really, the really important results. Now again, you're not going to have like unicorns and butterflies, you know, shooting out your behind at this time, but you are fabulous. That would, and you know, maybe consult your doctor if that does happen. But it takes some video for sure. But yeah, you have to realize that this is a, probably for most of us, decade, two or three decade long habit and influence on your body. So you have to give your body some time to recalibrate. There is a half life there. But if you have it in you, and I think that most of you do, and because most of you are go getters, you have something big you want to accomplish, wouldn't it behoove you to give yourself 90 minimum days just to see what it's like and how you could, how good you could feel and reevaluate from there? And that is what I would want. For anyone who is, you know, you're kind of following this language that you feel like you were put on the planet for something bigger. You haven't quite touched into it yet. Give yourself something that's reasonable but challenging and start with 90 days. Really start, get in there and see what happens.

Nicole Khalil (30:37)

Okay. And then over those 90 to 100 days, any suggestions of how to tune in and pay attention and track some of the benefits. I think sometimes, you know, we're so busy and often not paying attention or numb to some of these things and that might be a byproduct of alcohol. Right? So in there, is it a journaling? Is it every day tracking how you feel? What are some Tips and tricks to get the most out of these 90 to 100 days to optimize them.

Amanda Kuda (31:10)

Yes, thank you for asking that because I should have just like gone ahead and covered that that you can't just abstain for 90 days. And that's great. Not drinking for 90 days is amazing. But you have to also realize that alcohol has been a band aid for something in your life. It has probably been some sort of emotional or social, you know, crutch. And so you have to give yourself new tools to replace alcohol or else you're just going to be going into the world with a lack of skills and open wounds and that's not going to feel good for you. And so first of all, yeah, absolutely. I recommend a journaling practice to kind of get mindful about what you're experiencing and how you're feeling and how your mood is shifting and becoming a little more broad in the, in the things that you're able to feel. But you know, I give some exercises inside of my book and then I also want to share a free challenge with your community that offers some reflective exercises because the best thing that you can do is really get curious about how do I feel and what's changing, where are my skills maybe lacking and doing the work to start to add increase those skills in your life. So these are basic life skills that are emotional regulation, spiritual check ins, things that you can do to learn to actually solve the problems that alcohol was shortcutting you or through or delaying. And if you can get really clear about what was I using alcohol for, how can I get at those things myself without alcohol? You're going to leave that 90 days in with a superpower that cannot be matched and that will be incredibly powerful. So absolutely journaling. I'm happy to give you some exercises to reflect on if anyone wants to participate in this challenge that we'll talk about. But really, yeah, doing some introspection during that time. So it's not just an exercise in abstinence.

Nicole Khalil (32:54)

Perfect. Okay, tell us where we can find the challenge and then I'll tell people where to find and follow you from there for sure.

Amanda Kuda (33:01)

So the challenge is@amandacuda.com challenge and typically I ask that you buy the book to get the challenge for free. But I just want your listeners to be able to jump right in and dip their toes in the water. So if they use the code I think we did decided tiww it will bypass that and let you write in. So I would love for anyone who's wanting to explore this and have some of those introspective moments to go ahead and join in.

Nicole Khalil (33:25)

And if you're looking for a little extra support, you can follow Amanda on Instagram amandakutta and of course get the book Unbottled Potential available on Amazon or wherever you buy books. Let's support our local bookstores. Amanda, thank you so much for your incredible work, for the impact I know you're having on so many women, and for challenging us to rethink our relationship with alcohol. Thank you so much.

Amanda Kuda (33:51)

Absolutely. Thanks Nicole.

Nicole Khalil (33:52)

All right friends, as we wrap up, I'd ask us all to take some time to reflect and be intentional about our choices. Whether it's rethinking your relationship with alcohol, setting boundaries, or breaking up with habits that no longer serve you, the message is always the same. You are the decider and moving away from anything that doesn't align with your values or support the life you want may not be easy, but it is always a great, bold and brave move. Honoring yourself, trusting your instincts and making choices that feel good for you without explanations or apology. That, my friends, is absolutely worth cheersing. So a big bubbly water filled cheers to you because creating a life and making choices that serve you is the ultimate form of self respect and confidence and that that is always woman's work.

Amanda Kuda (34:44)

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