Podcast Summary: "The Genius Myth with Helen Lewis | 319"
This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
Host: Nicole Kalil
Guest: Helen Lewis, Staff Writer at The Atlantic, Author of The Genius: A Curious History of a Dangerous Idea and Difficult Women, Host of the BBC's Helen Lewis has Left the Chat and New Gurus
Release Date: June 18, 2025
Introduction: Preserving Meaning in Language
Nicole Kalil opens the episode by expressing her passion for maintaining the integrity of significant words, particularly focusing on the term "genius." She laments how the word has been diluted over time, likening it to the indiscriminate use of participation trophies.
“When we dilute them, when we throw them around like participation trophies, they lose their power. And genius might be one of the biggest casualties.”
— Nicole Kalil [01:32]
Historical Evolution of the Concept of Genius
Helen Lewis delves into the origins of the term "genius," tracing its lineage from ancient Greek and Roman beliefs to its modern interpretation. She explains that originally, genius was seen as a divine spirit or a poetic muse that enabled individuals to create extraordinary works.
“The Greeks and Romans had, I think, a much healthier idea about what genius was, which was they saw it as a kind of spirit that visited you for poeticus or for divinus...”
— Helen Lewis [03:53]
Lewis highlights how the Renaissance period began to mythologize geniuses like Michelangelo, transforming them into almost mythical figures. This trend continued into the Romantic era, where geniuses were often portrayed as tortured or eccentric individuals.
“We slap it on tech moguls, tortured artists, startup bros who've managed to disrupt something nobody asked or needed to be disrupted.”
— Nicole Kalil [01:32]
Genius and Gender Bias
A significant portion of the discussion centers around the gender disparities in the recognition of genius. Lewis points out that historically, men have been more likely to be labeled as geniuses, while women, despite their achievements, often receive titles like "brilliant" instead.
“They [women] are much less likely to be called brilliant as a word and also genius.”
— Helen Lewis [07:05]
Kalil adds that even prominent female geniuses like Marie Curie are not lionized to the same extent as their male counterparts.
“Marie Curie, brilliant scientist. She didn't even get a professorship in Paris, her adopted home, until her husband died...”
— Nicole Kalil [07:22]
The Dangers of the Genius Myth
Lewis discusses the implications of the genius myth, emphasizing that it often does not correlate with actual achievement and can lead to toxic perceptions. She uses Elon Musk as a prime example of a self-proclaimed genius whose behavior and actions have sparked significant controversy.
“Elon Musk is probably fathering some pretty smart kids, but he's not, as he seems to believe, fathering a race of kind of ubermensch...”
— Helen Lewis [20:36]
The conversation explores how labeling someone a genius can sometimes excuse poor behavior or create unrealistic expectations.
“Genius shouldn't be a free pass. It shouldn't excuse cruelty, abuse, or just being a dick.”
— Nicole Kalil [40:26]
Self-Proclaimed Geniuses and Public Perception
Lewis warns against individuals who self-identify as geniuses, suggesting that such declarations are often tied to egocentric behavior and a desire for public validation.
“If anyone says, by the way, I just need you to all to know that I'm a G. Because it's... PR, isn't it really?”
— Helen Lewis [08:42]
Kalil reflects on the personal pressure that comes with such labels, even hypothetically, recognizing how it can stifle creativity and impose undue stress.
“I would get so caught up in wanting something to be genius level all the time that I think it would limit my creativity...”
— Nicole Kalil [09:57]
Support Systems and the Cultivation of Genius
A critical theme discussed is the role of support systems, particularly the often-overlooked contributions of women, in the achievements of recognized geniuses. Lewis underscores how many legendary men had wives or partners who played significant roles in managing their domestic lives, allowing them the space to excel.
“Having a wife is like having, you know, a secretary and, you know, a personal assistant... These women really enjoyed these relationships or felt, in Sofia's case, she sort of hated it...”
— Helen Lewis [23:40]
Kalil agrees, emphasizing that societal structures have historically favored men in gaining genius status by providing them with the necessary support to focus solely on their work.
“Having a support system in place allows for that to even exist or happen. And throughout history, so few women have been afforded that same opportunity...”
— Nicole Kalil [27:32]
Balancing Genius and Imperfection
The discussion shifts to how society manages the duality of recognizing genius while acknowledging personal flaws. Using Michael Jackson as a case study, Lewis illustrates the struggle between celebrating artistic brilliance and confronting personal misconduct.
“I'm afraid I thought, no, I'm actually on the side of the press here. Like, obviously, as a journalist, I have a kind of stake in this...”
— Helen Lewis [33:11]
Kalil shares her personal journey of idolizing Jackson’s music and later distancing herself upon learning about his abusive behavior, highlighting the internal conflict between appreciating genius and rejecting personal immorality.
“I can acknowledge that he was a genius when it came to music... This is not a person who I would want to know or who I would want anybody to emulate...”
— Nicole Kalil [36:07]
Redefining Genius: From Individual to Collective
In concluding the conversation, Kalil and Lewis advocate for a shift in how society perceives genius. They suggest moving away from idolizing solitary figures to recognizing the collective efforts and collaborative nature of true brilliance.
“Maybe genius looks more like collaboration than isolation. Maybe more like curiosity than certainty.”
— Nicole Kalil [40:26]
Lewis expands on this by emphasizing the importance of community and collective support in fostering exceptional achievements, contrasting it with the flawed notion of the lone genius.
“We're dividuals. We only exist really in relation to other people... It’s much better to think of yourself as somebody who's been given something and you have to make the best use of it.”
— Helen Lewis [38:47]
Conclusion: Challenging the Genius Myth
Nicole Kalil wraps up the episode by urging listeners to critically evaluate who is labeled as a genius and to recognize the broader societal and cultural factors that contribute to these designations. She calls for a more nuanced understanding that separates genuine brilliance from superficial acclaim, ensuring that the term "genius" retains its meaningful impact without serving as a blanket excuse for undesirable behavior.
“Maybe it's time we stop obsessing over the genius and start recognizing the value in the collective brilliance all around us. Redefining genius and acknowledging our own. Well, that is woman's work.”
— Nicole Kalil [40:26]
Key Takeaways
- Historical Context: Understanding how the concept of genius has evolved helps in appreciating its current misuse.
- Gender Disparities: Women have historically been underrepresented in genius narratives, often overshadowed by their male counterparts.
- Cultural Impact: The myth of the genius shapes societal values, often placing undue emphasis on individual achievements while neglecting collective contributions.
- Personal Accountability: Labeling someone a genius should not overshadow their personal flaws or excuse their negative behaviors.
- Redefining Genius: Emphasizing collaboration, community, and collective effort over the solitary genius model fosters a healthier and more inclusive recognition of excellence.
Further Resources
- Helen Lewis' Book: The Genius: A Curious History of a Dangerous Idea
- Helen Lewis' Substack: [Link provided in show notes]
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Note: This summary excludes promotional content and advertisements interspersed within the transcript, focusing solely on the substantive discussion between Nicole Kalil and Helen Lewis.