The Good Mother Myth with Nancy Reddy | 274

Summary

This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil
Episode: The Good Mother Myth with Nancy Reddy | 274
Release Date: January 22, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 274 of This Is Woman's Work, host Nicole Kalil engages in a candid and insightful conversation with author Nancy Reddy about the pervasive "Good Mother Myth." This episode delves deep into societal expectations of motherhood, challenging outdated stereotypes, and exploring the real-life implications these myths have on modern mothers.

Challenging the Supermom Ideal

Nicole Kalil begins the discussion by sharing her personal stance on motherhood, famously declaring, "I am not a great mom. I don't even aspire to be one" (01:24). This bold admission sets the tone for a frank exploration of unrealistic maternal expectations. Nancy Reddy echoes this sentiment, reflecting on her initial misconceptions: "I had this idea that I would just somehow be able to do everything... the myth of the super mom" (05:30). Both women highlight the intense pressure women face to juggle multiple roles flawlessly, a narrative deeply ingrained in societal norms.

Historical Context and Outdated Research

The conversation shifts to the roots of the Good Mother Myth, with Nancy Reddy unpacking historical research that continues to influence modern parenting ideals. She points out, "The research that I'm looking at is mostly post-war era, the 50s and the 60s... the ideas are still really with us" (07:28). Reddy criticizes studies from that period, such as those by Harry Harlow and Dr. Spock, for their flawed and often misogynistic perspectives, which erroneously positioned mothers as the sole essential caregivers.

Nicole adds a critical layer by addressing the romanticized view of historical motherhood: "Motherhood has almost carried, like this nostalgic thing... but women were doing a lot outside of caring for their children" (09:42). They both agree that past portrayals of mothers are often inaccurate, placing undue expectations on contemporary mothers to emulate an idealized, often unattainable, standard.

The Myth of Perfect Parenting

Nicole challenges the notion that perfect parenting can shield children from life's adversities: "The idea that if we do it right... our child will not face any pain or harm... I can remember things that I've told my mom, like, I, I, this really hurt me..." (10:46). Nancy concurs, emphasizing that such myths undermine children's autonomy and resilience: "It's really easy to get caught up in a kind of performance of motherhood that's about other people's expectations" (13:29).

Community Support in Parenting

A pivotal part of the episode focuses on the importance of community in dismantling the Good Mother Myth. Nancy shares personal anecdotes about the invaluable support she received from friends and extended family: "The people who would just come... hold the baby... what we do in their childhood is not usually what I intended them to remember" (25:28). Nicole reinforces this by highlighting the diverse influences in her child's upbringing, attributing her child's openness to language and critical skills to the broader community's involvement.

Mental Health and Motherhood

The discussion takes an essential turn towards mental health, with Nicole recounting her own struggles in the early days of motherhood: "I don't think I was meant to do this. I genuinely believed I had made a huge grand mistake" (30:45). Nancy emphasizes the critical need to recognize motherhood as a significant transformational phase that warrants adequate mental health support: "Maternal mental health... we don't really take seriously enough what an enormous transformation it is" (29:15). They advocate for greater awareness and resources to support mothers in navigating the emotional complexities of parenting.

Conclusion: Redefining Woman's Work

Nicole wraps up the episode by reiterating the central theme: motherhood—and by extension, all "woman's work"—is subjective and personal. She encourages listeners to define their roles authentically, free from societal pressures: "Being a good mom or a good human isn't about fitting into some outdated mold... It's about doing what works for you, your family and your life" (32:19). The episode concludes with a powerful message about modeling healthy, self-defined roles for the next generation, underscoring that genuine fulfillment comes from authenticity rather than conformity.

Notable Quotes

• Nicole Kalil (01:24): "I am not a great mom. I don't even aspire to be one."

• Nancy Reddy (05:30): "The myth of the super mom... who just knows what to do, can do it all."

• Nicole Kalil (09:42): "Motherhood has almost carried, like this nostalgic thing... women were doing a lot outside of caring for their children."

• Nancy Reddy (13:29): "If you have a community, if you have people who will just hang out with you, it's so much more valuable than the kind of experts and advice."

• Nicole Kalil (30:45): "I don't think I was meant to do this. I genuinely believed I had made a huge grand mistake."

Key Takeaways

1. Debunking Myths: The episode critically examines and dismantles the entrenched myths surrounding motherhood, particularly the unrealistic expectations of being a "supermom."

2. Historical Influence: Outdated and often flawed historical research continues to shape contemporary parenting norms, necessitating a reevaluation of these inherited beliefs.

3. Community Support: Building and relying on a supportive community is essential for realistic and fulfilling parenting, challenging the notion of solitary motherhood.

4. Mental Health Awareness: Recognizing and addressing the mental health challenges inherent in motherhood is crucial for the well-being of both mothers and their children.

5. Authentic Definition of Motherhood: Embracing a personalized and authentic approach to motherhood empowers women to prioritize their well-being and that of their families over societal expectations.

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For more insights and resources discussed in this episode, listeners are encouraged to explore Nancy Reddy's book, "The Good Mother Myth," available on Amazon and at local bookstores. Additionally, Nancy's Substack, Write More. Be Less Careful, offers further reflections and discussions on modern motherhood.

Transcript

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[Nicole Kahlil]

I am Nicole Kahlil and you're listening to the this Is womanswork podcast. And I've only said this out loud a few times, typically to a much smaller audience, but here goes. I am not a great mom. I don't even aspire to be one. And I know there were just a few gasps of horror, but I am serious. When I thought about having kids and whenever Jay and I talked about it, I always shared my concern that I might not have the stuff. You know, the stuff that makes a great moment. I mean, on a scale of 1 to 10 for patients, I'm a solid zero. I don't enjoy cooking, let alone cooking separate meals for tiny humans and cutting sandwiches into cute little shapes. Not happening. Let's also be clear, I was never going to make my own baby food. I love and need my sleep, and without it, I'm less pleasant than an overtired toddler. And I've always been unapologetically career oriented. Stay at home mom. Not for me. Or as I like to call it, a work inside the home mom. Because let's be honest, that job seems infinitely harder than what I do for a living. And when I would say things like I'm not sure I want kids or when I was pregnant that I'd be going back to work after maternity leave. People would kind of give me this look, like that mix of pity and judgment, like they felt bad for my unborn child or for me because they thought I'd miraculously change into another human once my child was born. And they'd inevitably say something like, well, you never know. And it took every ounce of my non existent patience to not scream, I fucking know. Because between Jay and I, if anyone was gonna stay home, it wasn't gonna be me. But neither of us considered that option because we both love our careers and we figured we'd just somehow make it work. So I entered motherhood not aiming to be a perfect or even great mom, but just hoping to be a good enough one. No Pinterest worthy moments, no parenting books completed, no dreams of my child being my entire world. Because, side note, that always felt like way too much pressure to put on one tiny little human. My kid is loved by her parents and a small village. She's safe and she's cared for. She sees and experiences her parents working, failing, playing, participating and prioritizing. And for me, that's good enough. Again, I know there's been lots of gasping and horror going on because motherhood, above all things, is the space where insecurity and judgment thrive. We're all scared that we're messing up, yet somehow convinced we know how to parent someone else's kid better than they do. And in my opinion, the biggest screw up of all is the pressure we put on ourselves, on each other, and that we let society pile on top of us. So on this episode of this is Woman's Work, we're going to dive into the myth of the good mother. Our guest, Nancy Reddy wrote a book about it and knows from personal experience as well. When Nancy became a mom, she found herself face to face with the ideal of the perfect mother. Endlessly patient, always available, and fully invested in her child to the exclusion of everything else. Sound familiar? In her book, the Good Mother Myth, Nancy dives into mid 20th century research that has shaped our modern ideas of parenting. Research that was often flawed, misogynistic, downright absurd, and completely outdated. She hilariously and heartbreakingly debunks these myths, exposing how we're all still haunted by the bad science of men. Like Harry Harlow, who claimed that he somehow discovered love with lab monkeys. And Dr. Spock, whose bestselling parenting book included just one drawing of a dad interacting with his kids. So, Nancy, thank you for being our guest, and I'm going to Dive right in by asking you to share some of the myths that you challenge and debunk about motherhood in your book.

[Unknown]

Thank you for having me. I should say, like, I was nowhere near as clear eyed as it sounds like you were about the kind of work that I was taking on when I became a mother or what I was capable of. And before, before my first son was born, I had this idea that I would just somehow be able to do everything. This kind of myth of the, of the super mom, you know, who just knows what to do, can do it all, knows how to soothe her baby and doesn't mind because she just loves her kid so much. And I mean, like you, I always worked, I wanted to work. I grew up with a working mother. And so I somehow thought that I could both be this, you know, kind of good mother and also be a working mother. And I. It's a really complicated set of ideals, I think.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Yeah, well, it's two full time jobs. And I will also add that I had the advantage of going last, meaning I had kids later or had my daughter later than most of my friends had their kids. And I also have a few really honest friends. So that was really helpful. I think it kind of dismantled a lot of that for me. And I, and I do think it's been a little bit of my saving grace that I don't aspire to be this like, great, do it all mom. It's relieved, I think, some of that, that pressure. Okay, so you mentioned the myth of doing it all and doing it perfectly. I know a lot of your book is based on old and outdated research. What are some of the things that we're still operating under or living as today that are just either ridiculous or have been proven to be outdated or not work?

[Unknown]

I mean, it's fascinating to me because this research that I'm looking at is mostly it's the post war era, so it's like the 50s and the 60s, which is a long time ago now. But the ideas are still really with us, I think. And the biggest one, I think is this idea that what a baby needs most is like an undivided, uninterrupted relationship with a single primary caregiver. And I'll say, like these researchers, sometimes they say caregiver, but what they really mean is mom, right? They mean the person who gave birth to this baby better be there every minute. And you know, if she goes out with friends, if she has a job, if she has other interests, that she is damaging her baby's physical and mental Health for the rest of his life. And I think that's still. I mean, I think that's still really with us in ways that are sneaky. Like, for me, I don't think before I had my kids that I would have been able to articulate as clearly as I do in the book or as we've been talking about, like, what my ideals were. I just thought that's what it was like to be a mom like, that I would just be kind of magically become this other person who could do it all and had this. This image that I had ingested, that I think a lot of us had ingested. That comes in some ways from these. From these researchers and from, as you say, like, research on monkeys, not human babies.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Right. Well, I also think that. I don't know if I'm gonna say this right, but motherhood has almost carried, like, this nostalgic thing, right? Like this idea that moms in history were somehow more committed or doing it better. But it's really quite fascinating when I've done, and clearly not as much research as you have, but when I've looked back historically, women may not have worked, like, in a profession or a job, but they were fricking working like they were doing a lot of things outside of caring for their children. It's not quite this picture that I think we're being presented. Any thoughts or pushback on that?

[Unknown]

I mean, no, absolutely. I think when you and, like, time use studies bear that out, that even working mothers today spend more time, like one on one, interacting with their children than stay at home mothers of, like, the 50s and the 60s. I mean, I think about, you know, my grandmother, who I write about in the book, was a literal 50s housewife. I am fairly confident she never, like, sat on the floor and like, built train tracks with her daughters. I don't think that she was playing dolls with them. And, you know, I think, like, her kids grew up fine. And so I think that we put a lot. We have this inaccurate historical idea of what moms used to be like and what moms should be like. And so we put all of that pressure on ourselves. And oftentimes we are, you know, employed out of the home in a way that those women that we imagine weren't as well. And so it's really an impossible and inaccurate set of expectations that we bring oftentimes to motherhood.

[Nicole Kahlil]

I don't know if this is a myth, but I think it's something that permeates motherhood as well as so many other things. It's this idea that if we do it right, right, if we make all the right decisions, say all the right things, do all the best, and that somehow everything will be okay, that our child will not face any pain or harm or hurt or as if that's even a good life, or, you know, that they will be successful and smart and all the things that we, we want. And again, this is like, not my area of expertise, but the way I see it is like, I don't care what you do or how you do it, you're going to fuck up your kid in some way, even if that way is by trying to be perfect all the time, because then they're going to think that's the goal and then they're going to try to be perfect all the time, and then they're going to fall short and that's how you're going to fuck them up. Like, we're all screwing up our children in some ways, even sometimes by doing things right, because we have no control over what translates in their brain. Like, I can remember things that I've told my mom, like, I, I, this really hurt me, or I didn't, and she'd be like, that's not what happened, like, or that. And it's just, again, kind of crazy. So long winded way of asking, is one of these myths, this idea that we can do it right, or that we can somehow impact that our kids will have only happiness and joy and success?

[Unknown]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's the idea. One of the things. John Bowlby, who's one of the founders of attachment theory, who I write about a lot, had this idea that a mother's love is like vitamins. So we kind of like stock our kids up and insulate them. Like, what we do in their childhood is going to insulate them from any harm later on in their life. And I think that's in addition to being impossible. Like, that's not actually. I also, as you say, I don't think that's the goal. And I think it gives our kids really too little credit for being autonomous and interesting people on their own. And I mean, as you say, right, like, we don't know what our kids are gonna take away. There's this like, Instagram thing that I see sometimes. The idea of, like, you're gonna, like, I'm creating core memories for my kid, I think, like, hey, that's not how that, like, the stuff that my kids remember is not usually what I intended them to remember for good or for bad. And it's A long game. I think if you try to make either an afternoon or a childhood perfect, you're kind of doomed to fail.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Couldn't agree more. I always want to be careful because one of the things that is clear in this podcast is how we define woman's work is up to the individual. Like I always say, you're the decider. Whatever brings you joy lights you up from the inside. Whatever makes you feel the sun. That is what your definition of woman's work is and to do it authentically. So I know that there are women who find mostly joy. I don't know that anybody finds 100% joy. You could not convince me otherwise. But mostly joy in some of these more traditional mother roles or that they decide with their partner, you're going to work and I'm going to be responsible for home. And everybody has that opportunity to make that decision. But I struggle a little bit with the idea of, okay, let's just say in that traditional role, husband goes and works and woman stays home and cares for the house. It's like, okay, but then the working hours are from 7:30 to 5:30 or whatever and the parenting hours begin at 5:30 and go till 7:30. And that is a joint, it was a joint decision. Most likely. It's a joint effort. It's joint participation. And that does not mean everybody does the same thing equally all the time. But I just, I don't find it cute anymore when fathers don't know how to basically care for their children. And I find it even less cute when mothers enable that behavior.

[Unknown]

I mean, I've had a couple of conversations with like some of the, some of the women in my life, not close friends, but like, you know, moms from my kids school who, you know, so sometimes. And again, I don't know, I don't want to get into this place where we're like blaming women for things. But I do think there's a narrative, right, that's really easy to hook yourself into about, oh, what men can't do, they don't know how to do this, blah, blah. And I think in some ways it's because like, motherhood is a path to power for a women in a culture that like doesn't give us a lot of power, right? It is a way to feel like I am good, I am competent, I am doing what I'm supposed to do. So I don't want to totally dismiss that. But I have definitely had conversations with like women. My kids are in fourth and sixth grade now, so, you know, have kids about My kids ages be like, oh, my husband can't do that. He can't. You know, I had to blah, blah, blah. I was going to go out of town overnight and I had to do all this stuff to get him ready. And I'd be like, did you marry a child? Like why? Like that is not, that's not someone I would stay married to, I don't think. And so it's a very tricky like how do you shift those responsibilities if you're unhappy with it. But maybe, maybe some of those women are actually happy to be to have control over the house and the domain and to feel like they know. So hey, if that's working for you, live it up. But I don't love it.

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[Nicole Kahlil]

So I'm so glad you said it that way because, yes, that would not work for me. I would not stay in that situation. But that is a me deciding for me situation. And everybody gets to decide for themselves. And you're right, there definitely are some women who that is their choice and that's what brings them joy and happiness and more power to you as long as that's the case. And I'm so glad that you said that because I get frustrated. Clearly you can probably hear it because I think we as women are doing a lot of harm to each other in this space. There is so much judgment. I know. I feel it directed towards me and I also feel it with other moms. Like, it's. It's this weird thing that I'm like trying to stop doing. And my intention is not to blame women and to understand that a lot of this was determined for us, but not by us. And we're kind of playing these roles that have been forced in our general direction. And for those of us who choose that role willingly and with joy, great. But I'm more trying to speak to the people who don't or don't want to choose it.

[Unknown]

I mean, I think it's important to keep in mind that we have all of these structures that make not just motherhood, but family life incredibly hard in America. Like, we have this culture that says we're pro family and we love moms and we think we're doing the most important job in the world, but we don't have paid leave. Childcare is incredibly expensive, if you can. If you can even find it in a lot of places. And I know that accessibility of childcare has gotten so much worse since the pandemic. The school day, like, even once your kids get to school, that school day ends at 3:00. There's random half days, there's breaks. Our culture and our actual just like structures of the workday and the school day and everything else are not set up for people to be able to easily work and raise a family. And I don't know, in some ways, like, maybe that's the real enemy. It's not like kind of working moms versus stay at home moms or like moms versus dads. It's like these bigger structures that make our lives so hard.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Yes. Yeah. They aren't designed. So much has changed and evolved. Lots of progress has been made, but not necessarily in the systems and the structures that would support a dual working household or a single parent or. Yeah, it's really tough. So one of the things I noticed that you had said that I just wanted to talk a little bit more about is the institution of motherhood is kind of a scam. But getting to be a mom can be pretty amazing. There's that duality or that paradox. Let's talk a little bit about that. What do you mean?

[Unknown]

I just. I mean, I think so. When I'm talking about the institution of motherhood, I'm thinking about, like, all of these pressures that you articulated so clearly. Right. Which are almost always so much more about what we think things should look like. The kind of performance of, you know, like, look at my kids cute lunchbox. Look at our matching Christmas jammies. The stuff that we feel like oftentimes we're supposed to do in order to be good. And a lot of that stuff, I don't know, is super stressful, is expensive, is time consuming, and, like, doesn't actually bring people joy. I mean, if matching Christmas jammies bring you joy, like, live it up. But I think that it's really easy to get caught up in a kind of performance of motherhood that's about other people's expectations. I did make my own baby food with my first. And now I'm like, what were you doing? Although hilariously, I had these little molds that I would freeze the purees in with the organic apples from the farmer's market. My goodness.

[Nicole Kahlil]

And I have to say, I have a couple friends who lovingly and joyfully made their kids baby food. And again, I think what you're saying more articulately than I am is if it brings you joy, great.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Nicole Kahlil]

If it's coming from a place of pressure, performing what it looks like to others, not great.

[Unknown]

Yes. Like needing to learn to listen to our own inner voice. And I think it was fine. Although I will say, like, those little ice cube trays are great for cocktails now. Thought about that. I was like, well, hey, here we are, you know, 11 years later, still using it. But I think the thing, the thing that I have really discovered and that I think sometimes gets lost in conversations about motherhood once we start talking, like, kind of being honest about how hard it is, because that's true. And I'm glad that people are being really honest in a lot of ways about the particular hardships is also, like, the real joy, like, I have experienced, experienced daily, like, joy and get so much meaning out of my relationships with my kids. And that has nothing to do with like, did they eat a whole rainbow of fruits and vegetables? Like, you know, someone on Instagram said they were supposed to, you know, are they participating in an appropriate array of, you know, after school curriculars? Like all of those things that I think were supposed post to do or that feel like we're supposed to, like, that's, that's not what brings me joy. It's like my particular weird, interesting kids, like getting to know them and getting to see them know me. Like, that is an incredible source of meaning in my life.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I think focusing on the stuff in the institution really makes it hard.

[Nicole Kahlil]

To experience that my version of that is my child is one of my top two favorite humans on the planet and she's not my whole world. Yes, it's this both and it can feel paradoxical, but I think that's a distinction that's really important for me. Now. I cannot let you go without talking about this one thing that does sort of fall under this nostalgic category or historical category, but I think we've forgotten about it. And that's this idea of community in parenting. If you look back in history, all sorts of history, there is more of this women and community and family and friends coming together and sort of this concept of the village. Right. Whereas I think somehow it's evolved into, as you said earlier, this solo adventure where we might delegate a little bit here or there. But it's this idea that I'm supposed to be the end all, be all. Where does community play a part in dismantling the good mother myth?

[Unknown]

I love that question. In my own life, especially as a young mother in the first year or two of my kids lives, the friends who would come to hang out with us, and we were kind of the opposite of you. We were the first of our friends to have kids, which was hard in some ways, but it was also really convenient in other ways because it meant that we had lots of friends who had free time who could just kind of hang out, which is amazing because they didn't have their own kids to be home and take care of. And those are the people who saved my life. The people who would just come, like hold the baby. I mean, we had a good friend who is a man, still doesn't have kids, but is the most engaged kind of uncle to lots of kids in his life. And he came over when my son was probably like, I don't know, five, six days old, maybe a Little bit older than that, but at a stage where he was just crying all the time, and he was like, well, I don't really know what to do with that baby, but I can bring over. He brought over, like, a flank steak and grilled it and then held the baby so that I could eat. And that, I think, is what we. I mean, that's above and beyond, but I think it's that kind of people who will hang out with you is so much more valuable than the kind of experts and advice and the right way to do it that I think a lot of us spend our time looking for. Because if you have a community, if you have people who will just hang out with you, it's messy and it's vulnerable. And, like, who knows what I looked like or what I was even saying at that point. But that's, I think, how you really. That's the kind of support, I think, that a lot of new parents really need. And then I'll say also, it was really hard to build. I mean, we were in a uniquely lucky spot when our kids were born. We had a lot of good friends. I was in grad school. We knew a lot of people who had pretty flexible work schedules. We lived in a small city where it was really easy. Easy to get to someone else's house. And I think that is not true for a lot of families in America. Right. A lot of us work really long days. A lot of us have long commutes. A lot of us have moved for work and don't have friends nearby. So I think finding that community can be really hard. But if you're willing to show up in person and be vulnerable, that, I think, is where parenting can also get a lot more joyful.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Couldn't agree more, both as a mom and also, I would add, for my child, because there is something to be said for all the unique, different things that JJ has learned from the village. Like, we had a nanny for a couple years who spoke to her in Spanish. She doesn't speak Spanish today, but she is way more open to languages. And, you know, all that we. You know, I am 100% sure that Daniel Tiger taught my child potty training. Like, it was not me. It was Daniel Tiger. My mom taught her ABCs before I even thought that was a possibility. Like, there's just so much to sharing that there are different ways and different styles and different skills and different things that relieves the burden that we have to do and know it all. One last thing I want to throw out there again, kind of in this weird thing that we do about romanticizing motherhood of old. Back in the day, moms had all sorts of mental health issues that weren't being talked about. And even today, I think that this idea of pressure and performative experience and all the things that we put on ourselves, anxiety as moms are contributing and playing a part in our mental health. So how important is it to dismantle this good mother myth for our mental and emotional well being?

[Unknown]

I mean, I think it's really essential. I think that the mythology we have around motherhood makes it really hard to reach out for help, and it makes it really hard to understand what kind of help you might want. I mean, not to end on a downer note, but, like, I really thought in the first couple of weeks and months of motherhood, like, my problem was I just was just bad at it. Like, I was just a bad mom. I shouldn't have had kids. Like, I needed to get my act together and, like, figure it out. And now I'm like, man, like, you gotta use some therapy, girl. Like, that would have really, you know, I don't know. And I had been to therapy. Right. This is the thing that's crazy. I think about maternal mental health in particular is that we don't really take seriously enough what an enormous transformation it is. I mean, the things that happen in your body and in your brain as a result of pregnancy and giving birth are amazing. It's like a second adolescence in a lot of ways. And even if you didn't give birth, like, the actual labor of caregiving changes your brain. And I think that we don't take that, like, developmental stage for moms and new parents generally nearly seriously enough. I mean, the idea that you, like, you give birth to a tiny person and then you go home and they're like, good luck, you know, they just. I don't know, maybe everybody needs. Needs like a therapist in the first, you know, or whatever kind of mental health support, or at the very least.

[Nicole Kahlil]

An awareness of what a big transition it is and how much variety of support we might need and all the things we might be feeling. I mean, I can't tell you how much I relate. I can vividly remember JJ being only a couple weeks old and sobbing, like, not crying, full body sobbing in my mom's arms, saying, I don't think I was meant to do this. I genuinely believed I had made a huge grand mistake. Like, that I was not equipped. And, God, that was like the worst feeling in the whole world. And I wouldn't wish that on anybody. And yet I think it's a pretty common experience and that breaks my heart. And we have a lot of work to do about that. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Okay. I could talk to you forever, Nancy, but I think, and if you're still with us, if I haven't pissed you off, and please don't blame, blame Nancy for my very aggressive comments. But absolutely get your hands on her book, the Good Mother Myth, available on Amazon or go to your local bookstore. Let's keep them in business. And if you want to get even more of Nancy and her work, you can visit her substack, which is write more. Be less careful. We'll put the links to all of those things in show notes. And Nancy, thank you so much for your time and your openness and patience with me, just blurting out whatever is going on in my mind.

[Unknown]

Thank you so much. This is a great conversation.

[Nicole Kahlil]

Pleasure. All right, friends, here's the deal. There is no one size fits all when it comes to motherhood or anything else for that matter. If you want to be the Pinterest mom who bakes organic gluten free muffins in the shape of woodland creatures, amazing. As long as that's your desire and it brings you moments of joy. Not because you feel pressured by the shoulds or because you're trying to keep up with some other mom on Instagram. For example, you want to be the mom who orders takeout three nights in a row because you're too tired to cook. That's fabulous too. You don't want to be a mom at all. Also fantastic, because the truth is, being a good mom or a good human isn't about fitting into some outdated mold or meeting anyone else's expectations. It's about doing what works for you, your family and your life. Whether you're rocking career goals, mom goals, or just trying to keep your head above water, you get to decide. And if anyone has a problem with how you do that, well, that sounds like a them problem to me, not a you problem. I know you want the best for your kids. So a loving reminder that all humans learn best by experience and observation. So are your kids experiencing parenthood in a way that you'd want them to emulate if they decide to have kids? Because they will emulate. So how about we don't pass on the pressure, perfection, expectations, guilt and shame to our sons and our daughters. Let's model something instead that feels good and that brings joy. At least most of the time. Because when you define what works for you, when you decide your own rules. When you prioritize what really matters most, you're not just doing woman's work, you're modeling it. And all of that sounds like woman's work to me.

[Nancy Reddy]

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