The Snow White Effect: The Homemaking Myth That’s Keeping You Exhausted with Faith Roberson | 402

Summary

Podcast Summary: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil

Episode 402: The Snow White Effect—The Homemaking Myth That’s Keeping You Exhausted
Guest: Faith Roberson
Date: April 8, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Nicole Kalil is joined by Faith Roberson—certified life coach, professional organizer, and author of What Stays and What Goes. Together, they interrogate and redefine the concept of "woman's work," focusing specifically on homemaking and the historical, cultural, and personal pressures that shape it. They explore the roots and impacts of what Faith calls "The Snow White Effect," encourage listeners to approach homemaking as intentional, soulful work, and provide practical, values-driven strategies for redefining roles at home.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining “Woman’s Work” and Homemaking Expectations

• Nicole opens by reframing "woman's work" as whatever feels true, real, and right to you, rejecting prescriptive definitions. She highlights how homemaking is undervalued, invisible, and never-ending—yet still loaded with unrealistic expectations shaped by idealized images of perfect households.

  “...the goal was never and will never be to diminish or exclude anyone who chooses those roles. Because choice is the whole point here.” — Nicole (04:10)

• Homemaking Myth: Nicole and Faith discuss the media-driven fantasy of the spotless home and tireless, joyful homemaker—a myth that leaves women exhausted and unseen.

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2. The Socio-Political History of Homemaking & “The Snow White Effect”

[06:04 - 15:20]

• Faith describes the real-life inspiration for her lens on homemaking: seeing powerful, professional women lose agency at home, overwhelmed by expectations they’re “supposed” to meet.

• "The Snow White Effect"—the cultural narrative (originating with Disney’s Snow White in the 1930s) that glorifies cheerful, solitary domestic labor as a woman’s natural domain, masking its isolating, demanding reality.

  “Hollywood has always played a big part in putting women back into their place... You’re either the working woman or the woman who loves to keep house. You can't be both.” — Faith (14:00)

• Historical Context: During crises like the Great Depression, media reinforced homemaking as women’s “proper” place just as they found purpose in public work.

• Media representations often show domestic work as cheerful, organized-by-color, and infantilized, never capturing the actual invisible labor or emotional toll.

• Key Insight: Homemaking is isolating and time-consuming. It’s rarely depicted as “soul work,” nor are women given permission to ask, "What do I want? Does this serve me?"

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3. Homemaking as Soul Work and Expression of Self

[16:10 - 21:21]

• Faith reframes decluttering and organizing: The goal is not to possess less to be happy; rather, happiness and self-knowledge fuel the capacity to create supportive spaces.

  “Clutter isn’t a discipline issue. It’s an emotional processing glitch... Decluttering can be a way to grieve, to hope, to love, to empower ourselves and process who we are now.” — Faith (16:30)

• The “Inside Out” Approach: Organizing should stem from self-awareness and values—not the pursuit of outward perfection.

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4. Personal & Client Stories: The Emotional Weight of Stuff

[21:41 - 25:58]

• Faith shares a story of a wealthy client downsizing, realizing her possessions affirmed an identity that no longer fit. Faith herself experienced regret and loss when she let go of old belongings, underscoring how deeply our things are tied to our sense of self.

  “You have to know who you are to eliminate what you're not.” — Faith (25:39)

• “Our things are receipts of our lives; they’re tools for shaping our lives, not just stuff to get rid of.”

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5. Tangible Steps for Using Space as Self-Expression

[27:28 - 29:10]

• Principles Faith offers:
  1. Keep what you can care for—if it’s too much, let it go.
  2. Awareness—of self, spirit, and space.
  3. Boundaries—set and hold spatial and emotional boundaries (often the hardest work for women).
  4. Adjustments—be flexible; organizing needs to evolve as you do.

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6. Partnership, Boundaries & Delegation

[29:10 - 32:40]

• Addressing imbalance: Women often over-function—catching every dropped ball instead of allowing partners to feel consequences and grow.

  “Let it drop. The discomfort illuminates the things that must change.” — Faith (30:15)

• Letting go of control: Partners will do things differently, and that’s okay. Set boundaries and let responsibilities truly transfer.

  “Perhaps you don’t know where it is because you don’t do enough.” — Faith (32:13)

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7. Resisting the Pressure to Perform Perfection

[35:52 - 36:46]

• Nicole shares her own struggle to prepare the home for guests—ultimately realizing she was striving to impress people whose judgment didn’t matter to her.
• Men don’t face these pressures: The Snow White Effect is gendered, and women can learn from men’s relative ease around “imperfection.”

  “Men can lay up and say, ‘Nobody cares.’ Because they’re not affected by the Snow White effect...That propaganda is not for them.” — Faith (35:55)

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8. Invisible Labor and Getting Help

[36:52 - 40:45]

• Invisible help: The picture-perfect homes on social media often depend on unacknowledged, paid help.

• Hiring support is valid: If you can, budget for help and recognize that distributing work is healthy and supportive—not a failure to meet expectations.

  “You are also helping the woman that’s helping you. When you’re employing women to do this domestic work, you are giving them work.” — Faith (39:26)

• Challenge guilt: Flip the script—hiring help is collaborative and community-building, not selfish.

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9. Reclaiming Time and Conscious Choice

[42:23 - 43:00]

• Time is a limited resource: We don’t “manage time” so much as manage choices. Ask whether an hour of domestic work is the best use of your life—and don’t be afraid to choose differently.

  “When we think about the choice of what am I going to do with this hour of my life...There are a lot of things that are much more productive, much more impactful, or just simply much more desirable.” — Nicole (42:41)

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10. Faith’s Three-Step Activity for Re-centering Homemaking Around Values

[43:22 - 45:19]

1. Acknowledgment: Name a value (e.g., simplicity) important to you.
2. Action: Identify a domestic action supporting that value (e.g., decluttering what complicates life).
3. Alignment: Create a mantra combining the two as you work (e.g., “I align with simplicity by releasing thoughts, behaviors, and objects that unnecessarily complicate my life.”)

“Now my homemaking becomes about my values—practicing my values in my own home, letting them be amplified by the way I keep house.” — Faith (44:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Homemaking as Soul Work:
  “Clutter isn’t a discipline issue… Decluttering can be a way to grieve, to hope, to love, to empower ourselves and process who we are now.” — Faith (16:30)

• Confidence, Choices & Identity:
  “I define confidence as when you know who you are, own who you’re not, and choose to embrace it, all of it.” — Nicole (25:58)

• Delegation and Boundaries in Partnership:
  “Let it drop. The discomfort illuminates the things that must change.” — Faith (30:15)

• The Hidden Workforce Behind Perfection:
  “All of these homes we’re seeing...these women have help, and you don’t see the help. That’s why it’s called invisible labor.” — Faith (36:54)

• Re-centering Around Values:
  “I align with simplicity by releasing thoughts, behaviors, and objects that unnecessarily complicate my life.” — Faith (44:24)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [06:04] — The origin of "The Snow White Effect"
• [12:59] — Historical shaping of the homemaker image
• [16:10] — Homemaking as soul work and emotional processing
• [21:41] — Personal and client stories about soul work and decluttering
• [27:28] — Starting principles for organizing authentically
• [29:10] — On partnership, delegation, and boundaries
• [35:52] — Resisting perfection and learning from men’s attitudes
• [36:54] — The reality of invisible domestic help
• [39:16] — Dealing with guilt about hiring help
• [43:22] — Faith's three-step values activity

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Tone and Language

• Warm, honest, and practical: Both Nicole and Faith use personal anecdotes and gentle humor, never shying from vulnerability.
• Empowering and values-driven: The episode consistently centers autonomy, compassion, and permission to choose.

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Actionable Takeaways

• Redefine “woman’s work” as your work—done your way, by your values.
• Challenge the myth of the joyful, solitary homemaker; recognize invisible labor and isolate less.
• Approach organizing from the inside out; process your needs, desires, and attachments to stuff.
• Use Faith’s three-step system (acknowledgment, action, alignment) to let your values drive what stays and what goes.
• Share responsibility at home, set clear boundaries, and embrace help without guilt.

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For more, follow Faith Roberson at Organize with Faith and check out her book What Stays and What Goes (available at local bookstores and Amazon).

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“Because living isn’t about having the perfect home. It’s about creating a life that actually feels like yours, that’s aligned, not assigned. And that is and will always be woman’s work.” — Nicole (46:10)

Transcript

[A]

There are parts of running a business that I care deeply about and feel like I'm pretty good at. And then there are parts that I just know I will never excel at. Things like payroll, HR forms, tax filings. Really anything that involves important paperwork that can't be ignored but somehow I can never seem to figure out. And that's where Gusto comes in. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and incredibly easy to use so you can pay, hire, onboard and support your team from anywhere. It handles things like automatic payroll, tax filing, direct deposits, benefits, all the details that can get messy real fast. And it saves time with built in tools like onboarding docs and offer letters. So the things you're not great at still get done right. Try gusto [e-mail] tiww and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free [e-mail] tiwww or one more time gusto.com tiww as an entrepreneur, one of my biggest learnings has been this. There is no magical unicorn person out there who can do everything. And also I don't want a huge team of people to manage. Which puts me in a bit of a pickle because my business spans operations, strategy and analytics, marketing and a wide variety of tech. And no one person is great at all of it. Which is exactly why I've leaned into hiring freelancers. Upwork is a one step platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers. So instead of trying to force one person to do everything, or worse, doing it all myself, I can bring in the exact expertise I need when I need it. Upwork helps grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories so you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without without committing to full time headcount. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's upwork.com upwork.com if you love the show, the best way to keep it going is simple. Share it, rate it, and support the sponsors who support us. I am Nicole Khalil and you're listening to the this Is Woman's Work podcast where together we're redefining what it means, what it looks and feels like to be doing woman's work in the world today. And in case you're new here, we define woman's work as whatever feels true and real and right for you. If we stand behind anything here, it's that you are always the decider. So when I chose the title for this podcast, this is Woman's Work, it was meant to be a little tongue in cheek. Or more accurately, a smirk with a middle finger behind it. Because for far too long, woman's work has held a very narrow definition. Caring for others, raising children, and managing a home, all of which, let me be clear, are valuable. But for me personally, not so much aligned with my desires, my talents or my energy. But in pushing back on that old definition, the goal was never and will never be to diminish or exclude anyone who chooses chooses those roles. Because choice is the whole point here. And here's what I know for sure. For something that takes up so much time, energy and mental space for so many women, homemaking is wildly undervalued. It's often invisible, expected unpaid work, and somehow still never ending and never enough. Because somewhere along the way it got packaged into a very specific, very polished, very perfect version of reality. You know the one. The spotless house, the smiling woman, the perfectly behaved children eating their organic, homemade, Michelin star worthy meals three times a day in between carpools and perfectly fluffed couch pillows. Because that's the whole job, right? Taking care of everyone and everything else. Meanwhile, whether you work outside the home or not, the expectation remains. Women carry the weight of maintaining it all. And we've accepted that, often without question. But what if homemaking isn't something to escape or resent or romanticize into something it's not, but something that we get to redefine? What if it could be an intentional, values driven expression of how we want to live, rather than a standard we're trying to live up to? And let me be really clear here. When I say we, I mean all of us, all genders. Because valuing the work also means sharing the work. So we're approaching this from both sides. The cultural and the practical. The stories we've been told about homemaking, the systems underneath those stories. And yes, the real life, day to day stuff too. The clutter, the overwhelm, the questions of what stays, what goes and why. Our guest is Faith Roberson, a certified life coach, professional organizer, and founder of Organize with Faith. She approaches organization from a deeper, more holistic lens, what she calls soul work, helping people create spaces that reflect who they actually are, not who they've been told to be. Her work blends practical tools with emotional awareness. And her book, what Stays and what goes challenges us to see decluttering not just as cleaning up, but as a way of realigning our space, our values, and our lives. So, Faith, welcome to the show. And I want to start here because I think it's going to reframe the entire conversation For a lot of us. You talk about the socio political history of homemaking and what you call the Snow White effect. So what is all of that? How does it shape who and how we're expected to do this work?

[B]

First of all, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Nicole, that introduction had me in tears. It was so good. It was spot. Oh, yay. Thank you. I literally had to grab a hanky. I was like, let me. Adam. It was so great.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. That makes me so happy when I, you know, I obviously put some effort into the introductions, and, like, you never know if you've. I mean, this is your work I'm setting up. So I appreciate that.

[B]

You nailed it. That is it. It was everything. Everything that I, when I was sitting down writing this book, like, everything I felt inside you just, like, tapped the spirit of that, and I'm grateful. So I'll start off with the little story I had before I had really taken on Organize with Faith as my business. I was a private cook, and I was cooking for this woman that I just admired. She just had it all. I was a waitress before, and she used to come into the restaurant, and she had her husband and her kids, and she was like a professional. She worked, I think, in an investing firm or something like that. And I always just admired her. And she would tell me, oh, my God, my house, my house is a mess. And, you know, we're all filthy animals. And she would tease about it, and I never believed her. And then one day, she invited me over to start cooking for her family. And that's actually how I transitioned, because I did kitchen maintenance and it was a whole thing. But when I walked into her home, it was. She had all of these boxes. It was as if she was, like, moving, but she wasn't quite moving, and she was just timid in her home. And she was. It was like all of her power and agency was gone in that space. It wasn't the situation where she was the overachiever in her home. It was a situation where she was overwhelmed and had, like, shut down. And so eventually she invited me into her bedroom, and it was kind of like, just inundated with clutter. And she said, it didn't used to be this way. My Husband expects me to make all these decisions. I don't know why. Like, I'm overwhelmed by it. I don't want to do it. And it was the first time where I realized, oh, this is interesting. She has an idea of the way she should do it. Like, the happy homemaker way. Right. Like, I'm not that woman. I wasn't born that way. I don't. Like, like. And she couldn't understand that you don't have to be that woman to do the work. Right. And to also delegate and collaborate. Like, you don't have to do it all. And so that's kind of what triggered that Snow White effect thing. And then I was talking to a girlfriend, and we were. I was wondering why Marie Kondo's effect was so powerful across America. And I was like, well, she's not saying anything new. Like, this whole happy spark, joy, magic, like, ting. Like, that whole thing that we're often sold is so familiar. Why are we enamored by it? Right. Like, why do we get inspired by that? And then I thought, well, it kind of reminds me of Snow White. It's that whistle while you work. It's that, you know, I just love tidying up. And it's exciting, and it's my work. It's what I do. It's where I find my passion. It's where I find my drive and my ambition. It's all in this house. So as I was writing the book, I wondered, what are the repercussions of us believing, right. These characteristics, these narratives, these ideas about women? And why is it that that's all we ever see? When we talk about home, it's very. When we see it in the media, it's like, infantile. Right. It's kind of like Lisa Frank. It's organizing by color, and it's always very cheery and happy. And it's really not that in real life.

[A]

Yeah. Where's the rage? Cleaning. Right, Right.

[B]

Like, and also, where is the woman who's single and doing it for her herself?

[A]

Yeah. And where's the guy? I've actually seen a few.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Commercials recently, and I could have wept. It was, you know, a guy mopping. And I'm like, thank you.

[B]

Finally. Right? All of these trad wives are doing it by themselves. On. That's, like, the most important factor, right. Is when you see these women on social media doing the work, they're always alone. And what's fascinating about that is domestic labor. Domesticity. Homemaking is very isolating. And instead we try to flip it and make it like it's joyful and fun. And the reality is it's time consuming. It takes a wild amount of effort. It's isolating. It keeps us from our families or communicating with our girlfriends. And it's exhausting work. And we never see it that way. But more importantly, domestic work, homemaking, all that stuff. When we think about the work that we do in our homes, it's also soul work, right? It's an opportunity for us to look at ourselves. And that is never, ever, ever the highlight, right? Or the permission that we get to actually ask ourselves, what do I want? Who am I? How have I changed? Does this make me happy? Not the things like, does this work make me happy? Is it too much for me to bear? Like, that's never the impetus when we're seeing this stuff on social. It's always about the things and how happy they make us.

[A]

Comical, when I say really is comical. And my sister for a time was a professional organizer, and she injured herself, so she had to stop that work. But she loves, like, and I mean loves organizing. And you can tell, I don't think she loves all aspects of homemaking, but that particular. And so what I'm hearing you say, faith is to really check in with ourselves as we're doing this work and asking what feels right. So I'm not even gonna say what makes us happy. Cause some of the work doesn't make us happy. We don't get to always do things that make us happy all the time. But what are. What are we okay with? Where can we align with who we are, what we want? That type of thing. But you said something I wanna circle back on. It's often done alone. And I don't think that was always the case. I think back in the day, domestic work was very community. We often had lots of members of family living together. It was collaborative. It was collaborative. And I think, I'm guessing 1950s is when he started getting the image of the woman happily doing it all on her own earlier the 30s.

[B]

I mean, Snow White came out in the 30s and she was cleaning up after seven grown men, right? But that's when grown. And that. Let's do an emphasis on that. These men were grown and they couldn't keep their own house.

[A]

They had full beards, right?

[B]

They were out there mining. And she came in and when you think about the evil queen, right? This malicious, conniving, single woman, independent, owning her own home. And she's jealous of this helpless, homeless, pretty Snow White, like, who's having a housekeep to even matter. It's insane. So when you think about the 30s, you think about the Great Depression, and all of a sudden all these men are losing their jobs. It was like 14 million men out of work. And women, predominantly middle class women, start going into work. They're flooding in and America's panicking. The panic is, who's gonna do the housework? Who's gonna take care of these kids? The men don't wanna step up. And the women are stepping up, mind you, and they're finding purpose. It's not necessarily like, when you think about the psychology of it, it's now becoming kind of equal. Women are starting to feel like, oh, my God, I have this newfound purpose. I could work, I could go out, I can make my own money. And so here comes Disney with this, okay, we gotta figure out how we're gonna readjust this. And so here comes Snow White. So it actually happens around the 30s that we start to see this depiction of this woman who is happy whistling while she works, doing domestic labor. And so it's kind of an invitation for women to get back in the house and for men to start working again. So Hollywood has always played a big part in putting women back into their place, which is interesting because I love domesticity. There's always this idea that you have to choose. You're either the working woman or the woman who loves to keep house. You can't be both. The challenge is, is that when you're the woman that loves to keep house, that's as if that's all you can be. And if you're the working woman, that's all you can be. Yes, that we can't be at all.

[A]

And that if those are the ends of the spectrum, we get to choose where on the spectrum we want to fall. There are definitely parts of homemaking that, like, I cannot cook, and I don't enjoy the scrubbing of bathrooms or anything like that. But I very much like the organization. I'm an extreme homebody. So I want things to be clean and put away. And I like kind of this simple. But I want my spaces to feel like me. I want to walk into them and want to live and be comfortable in them. Not, oh, it's too perfect, I can't touch it or I can't sit there. Okay. So I want to go to this concept of soul work. Talk to us about how soul work and things like organization and decluttering, how do they work together?

[B]

When you talk about decluttering, Right. It's always, okay, I got to get rid of. I got to get rid of. I got to get rid of, right? If I don't have a lot of stuff, I'll be happier. If I contain it and organize it, I'll be happier. If I only keep the things around me that spark joy, I'll be happier. The reality is, when you're happier, right, then you have the fuel to do these things. It's the other way around. It's not that these things make you happy. It's that when you find happiness, you have the capacity to do these things. You have the bandwidth to do these things. So soul work is the invitation to figure out, who am I? What have I come. You know, where have I come from? What are my passions? What's my history? It's to hold space for you, to process your feelings. Because clutter isn't a discipline issue. Like, you have the lack of discipline to do these things. It's a emotional processing glitch. Like, I don't have the time to hold the space for myself, to understand why I'm even keeping these things right. So I want women, particularly women, and I wrote this truly for us, to allow ourselves the space to grieve, to hope, to love, to have compassion towards ourselves, to feel empowered, to find our voices, to know and understand not who necessarily we were, but who we are today. And that's what decluttering can do for you, especially when it comes on the heels of, like, a rite of passage. You get married, you get divorced, someone passes away, you get a new job, you retire. Of these massive moments in our lives, our relationship to our space changes in that as we change our relationship to our things. And what matters also comes into view. And so the soul work is about. And in the book, there's so many questions that we can ask ourselves, but about understanding our attachment to things and also understanding that we're changing. And, like, what does that change look like? And how do we shift our atmosphere to support that change?

[A]

Friend. I am only great at a very small handful of things in my business. And in my experience, the faster you figure out what isn't your lane, the better off you are. Which is why I pay attention to what smart people around me are using. Like a great friend of mine who runs a highly successful recruiting firm. So somebody who's deep in hiring HR and all of that, she recommended Gusto, and that was enough for me. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly, and incredibly easy to use. So you can pay Hire onboard and support your team from anywhere. You also get access to HR experts when you need them. So even if it's not your zone of genius, it's handled. Try gusto [e-mail] tiww and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free [e-mail] tiwww one more time gusto.com tiww I'm gonna say something that might make you feel better or worse, but either way it's true. And that's Nobody knows what they're doing when they start a business, but some people start anyway. Because the difference isn't readiness. It's getting into action before you feel ready and having the right tools to support you while you're figuring it all out. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from brands just getting started to household names, it helps you tackle everything in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics so you're not juggling a dozen different platforms trying to force them to all somehow work together. You can build your store with ready to use templates, use AI tools to streamline your product pages, and get support anytime with their 24. 7 customer service. It's time to turn all of your what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com tiww go to shopify.com tiww one more time. That's shopify.com tiww so many things going through my head first, you know, I feel like you're lovingly reminding us that change, evolution, growth, these are important parts of life that we all go through. So this idea that everything should stay the same is sort of silly. I also feel like you are explaining this in a way that makes sense, but it's so different than the way it's being messaged out there all the time. Your positioning is an inside out. Yes, I always say that.

[B]

Organizing from the inside out. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so can you give us an example, either from your life or a client to really help drive this home? Because I am really latching onto this conceptually, but it is different than the way we hear about it. So if you could give a story or an example that might help latch on a little harder.

[B]

Okay. So I will say one that's parallel to my life. So I had this client and y' all bear with me on this one because it is a bit wild, but she called me in to Help her organize her new home. And when I walked into her apartment, it was empty. There was nothing in it but two chairs. And it was like, early in the morning in New York City. And I thought, oh, Lord, like, is this my ending? Is this woman gonna pop me over the head and take me out? Because there was nothing there. I was like, what am I gonna do?

[A]

But what I'm organizing. Two chairs.

[B]

Yeah. And it's just kind of like since the beginning of, like, a Lifetime movie. But the reality was she was saying, faith, I need you to coach me through my relationship to my Steph, because I'm going to move. She was in an apartment building. I'm moving up two floors into a smaller space. And so before I bring anything in, like, I need you to help me understand what I'm bringing in and why. So we started to talk, and she said to me she was a very wealthy woman. And she says, you know, I was on my boat. It was like a yacht. And I had this life that was really big. I had all these people, and I had staff, and, you know, I had everything that you could ever imagine wanting. And. And I realized when I was on the boat, I was on the boat, but I wasn't really on the boat. Like, I was there on my boat, but I wasn't really there. And it hit me like, this life that I have created isn't for me. And so at the same time, I was kind of going through something similar in my own life. I was in this little apartment that I'd lived in for 10 years, and I had all these roommates. And I decided now that I was successful, that I was gonna move on up into my own little fancy apartment. And I'd gotten rid of all of this stuff before I moved in. And I got in there and I looked around, and I didn't have a lot of the stuff that I had had with me prior. And I was scared, and I had all of this regret about what I had let go of. Right now I'm an organizer, and I'm dealing with, like, this feeling of, what did I do? Who am I? I feel I felt like a foreigner in my own life. And that's when it hit me that, oh, my God, I feel like I've died. Like a part of myself has died. I let go of these things that were affirmin my identity. And now that they're not here, who am I? And so I realized, like, okay, if that's the case, things are powerful and they do matter, but they matter because they're they're a. They're a receipt of our lives. And I need to go through and give myself grace to, like, understand what that meant for me, but also hope for my future of what I create. And so I started using things as a tool. A tool to shape my life, right? Not a tool for me to like, keep inundating myself with stuff, but more so like, what am I creating? What am I. How am I nurturing my needs with this stuff? And can I be an active participant in my life? And so that is the thing that we forget sometimes. We're organizing from the outside in, which is what we see in the media, how beautiful the space is, how gorgeous our pantry looks, how neat and tidy, right? And like perfect the pillow is on the couch. That doesn't necessarily scratch the itch. And the itch is purpose. The itch is like self care, compassion, love, peace, so that we can go out and truly evolve, but evolve mindfully. It's not something that's happening to us, but it's something that we're make. You know, we're making it happen. So I don't know if that helped, but it's just. It's just the idea that stuff isn't something we just have to abandon, but it's something that we can use to shape our lives. Right? I always say you have to know who you are to eliminate what you're not.

[A]

Oh my gosh. So this is really funny. I define confidence as when you know who you are, own who you're not, and choose to embrace it, all of it. To me, that's what confidence looks and feels like. And as you were talking, I feel like so much of this is transferable to our bodies, to what we wear, to confidence, to how we present ourselves out in the world. And I do think we have become obsessed about how it looks to other people, right? So I remember my sister being like, I'm not gonna do a guest room in my house. Why would I take so much space for something that gets used five days out of the year or whatever. So she did a mur bed in an office. So it has its primary purpose of their day to day lives. Or my mom saying to me, I was looking at a piece of art and I was like, I don't know where it will go. It wouldn't match. I put in air quotes. And she's like, get art that you love that speaks to you. And then it should go in your house because your house should be something you love and it speaks to you, right? Like yeah. So all of that to say, how do we begin to think about our space as an expression of who we are? If we've been spending our lives thinking about it outside in, and we want to start thinking about it the other way, what are some of the things we could ask ourselves? Is it about what feels good? Is it about color? Is it. Does this spark joy? What is it that we can be thinking about?

[B]

Oh, I have so many things, but one is keep what you can care for. Right. If it's too much to manage is too much to have, if it's overwhelming, even after you delegate, even after you're depending on if you, you know, share space with people. But if it's too much for you, if you're constantly in friction with this stuff, let it go. Right. So that's number one. I do have principles. The first one is awareness. It's understanding yourself, your spirit, even the spatial awareness, all of that. The second one is boundaries. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. If that is not a word that women is like, the T of what women have to deal in practice are boundaries, spatial boundaries, emotional boundaries, ethical boundaries. Know your boundaries. And the boundaries aren't for other people. They're for you. You gotta hold them. And so if you feel like my space is uncomfortable. Right. It's often a lack of boundaries or broken boundaries. So you want to think of organizing as setting up boundaries and holding those for yourself. Sometimes it's uncomfortable work to do, but it's necessary. And then the third one are adjustments. We have to be flexible. We have to be able to see the change, understand it, know it, accept it, and let it be. Being flexible is. Is integral to organizing. Sometimes we think it's gonna be permanent, and it's. It's not. It changes. Right.

[A]

As we change. So I wanna circle back on boundaries, especially for those of us who choose to be in partnership. Any advice or tips or things that you've seen work or things to avoid when re. Establishing or establishing boundaries with a partner? When it comes to space, organization, decluttering, when you might not always see eye to eye, or you're re. You know, re establishing a new boundary that may have gotten loosey goosey over. Over time?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yes. One is be careful who you pick as your partner.

[A]

Number one in the first place. Yes.

[B]

I remember I was with this woman, her husband was hoarding, and I was like, girl, I don't know what to tell you because I'd be gone. This is. It's too much. So. That is very true. Be mindful about the partner you choose, right? Go to their house, check out how they're living. Because the reality is there's a good chance they're going to be living that way with you. So that's number one. But number two, oftentimes women will step in, just overextend, overexert. No one can do it better than I could do it. You're not going to do it, right? So just forget it. I'll do it. You're not going to remember. I'll take over. The drop of the ball. Women are ready to catch it, let it drop. Like, let it drop, and then deal with what that feels like. Like, the discomfort of that sometimes we're trying to intercept. But the reality is that discomfort illuminates the things that must change. And sometimes that changes, okay, I've got to step away. Or sometimes that changes. If this isn't working for me and it's not working for you, and you're not willing to compromise, that's the conversation we really need to be having. And so ultimately, if you set a boundary in place and if you say, okay, this is your responsibility, you have to let that be their responsibility. And it may not get done the way you would want it to get done or the way you would do it, but let it be and be ready for those conversations that ultimately are about your choice. If this is truly working for you and it's nuanced, right? Like, it's not. My. My husband, Nicole, if he asks me one more time where something is that's

[A]

right in front of his face, I know nothing about this, by the way. Like, it is literally right where it always is, or right, it's always there.

[B]

He asks me finally. I was like, enough. I've had enough. My girlfriend told me. I just say, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where your helmet is. I don't know where the spoons are. I don't know where the toilet paper. I don't know. She was like, if you want to survive this marriage, you just, I don't know. And now he starts to look right. But before, I used to be running around telling him where everything was. Like, I was his personal assistant. I had to remind him, you live here, too. You have lived here as long as I've lived there. And perhaps you don't know where it is because you don't do enough. So maybe you need to do a little bit more around this house so you know where things are.

[A]

There are pieces in my wardrobe that I wear and pieces that I live in. Right now. It's my Quince trench coat. I bought it because I'm heading to Europe for three months and needed something that could handle real life. The packing, travel, walking all day, getting tossed over cafe chairs and somehow still look good when I go out to dinner. And this coat does all of that. No wrinkles, great fit. And it costs way less. Like friend, I'm Talking more than 50% less than anything else I was considering. And that's kind of Quince's thing. Even their accessories, like their leather bags, look way more expensive than they are because they cut out the middleman and work directly with ethical factories. So we're getting the quality without the markup. And now I have more dollars left over to spend on coffee, cheese and baguettes because I will be doing Europe right. Refresh your spring wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com tiww for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to Quinc for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com tiww I'm gonna share something that a business coach once told me or really called me out on because let's be real, sometimes you gotta knock me over the head when it comes to asking for help. She basically said you're not overwhelmed because you have too much to do. You're overwhelmed because you're trying to do too much of it yourself. And that's where Upwork comes in. Because one of the biggest growth hacks is realizing that you shouldn't do it all yourself. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across web and software development, data and analytics, marketing, business operations and more. So instead of spending weeks trying to figure something out, you can bring in somebody who already knows exactly what they're doing. And if you want the best of the best with Business plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. And with AI powered shortlisting, you'll get matched to the right freelancer in under 66 hours. No endless searching required. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's up. W O R k.com upwork.com so I have a version where I created my own problems where my husband Jay would invite people over like, you know, another couple or somebody from work or whatever, and I would be running around like a crazy person. Yes, cleaning, polishing, fluffing, and I'd get upset with him, and he'd be like, nobody cares. And I'd be like, yes, they do. And then, you know, I care. And then I, like, finally got to the point where I was like, the people who care care because they're being judgmental, and those aren't my people. And I don't care that much. Like, I don't want it to be a disaster, but it doesn't need to be this perfect thing.

[B]

And that's the Snow White effect. Men can lay up and be like, nobody cares because they're not affected by the Snow White effect. They don't have the pressure to be perfect. It's not that. Propaganda is not for them. And so there's a lot of ease. And so the reality is we can learn a lot from men.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

In this space. Right. Like, the issue is not them necessarily. It's us believing that we have to do it all, and we have to do it a particular way, and it has to look a particular way. So if he's cool with it, it's kind of like, well, why am I stressing myself out about everything in this house and how it looks? And I'm cleaning also get help. I started to be. I was Right.

[A]

So when you first said it, I was thinking, like, therapy. But also the. I think the way you meant it

[B]

was like, yes, hire somebody. No, no, no. I mean, that's true.

[A]

Either way. Either way.

[B]

Get all of that out mentally. But also domestic labor. All of these homes we're seeing, these women have help, and you don't see the help. Right. It's why it's called invisible labor. But there are tons of people that are working. Some of them have staff that are doing all of that for them. They're not doing it. They show it like they're doing it, but they're not. And we don't know that. We don't think about that. The reality is, Snow White probably had help too. And we think, okay, it's my responsibility. Hire the handyman. If you keep asking your partner to do something and he's not doing it, hire the housekeeper to come to relieve you if it's too much to bear. And sometimes people will feel like, well, I don't have the money to do that. Budget it. Like, maybe, okay, so if your husband likes to buy shoes and likes to fix his motorcycle, discuss putting some of that money aside so that you have support at home. Because the truth is, we can't do it all. And particularly when we're sharing home with Others.

[A]

Yeah. If I remember correctly, Snow White had birds and squirrels and people who helped. Right. Or things that helped.

[B]

Yes, those raccoons.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm so glad you addressed the. Because I think the first default is I can't afford it. And I understand that that is true in some cases. I don't think it's as. In many cases, as we allow ourselves to think, I think it's a little bit of a default. We can't afford it as opposed to no. If we repositioned or, you know, did some things that brought us joy, we might have more energy for. I don't know. There's lots of ways to look at it. Any thoughts for the person who's like, okay, but I feel really guilty or gosh, what a jerk am I to hire somebody else to do? We have a woman who comes and cleans our house. She is my favorite human on the planet. Like, I love my husband and my daughter more than her, but I like her the best. I treat her and pay her as well as I can. Like more than she asks for. Because I do sometimes have to fight with that guilty feeling of maybe the Snow White effect of I'm supposed to do it myself. But also like, gosh, does this make me an asshole? Thoughts?

[B]

The first thing that comes to mind is isolation, right? Oftentimes, even in the home and garden industry, when we're watching those shows, the men are always working with a lot of men, right? They're doing the construction and there's, they're talking to the architects and the landscapers and they come in droves. There's all sorts of men helping. And the women would be one woman fluffing a pillow, putting the vase on the shelf, doing the things. And we only see her looking beautiful, mind you. And so a lot of that guilt comes from not seeing, seeing the companionship, the camaraderie, the, the support, the, the think tanks, the, the helping hands, women helping women. You are also helping the woman that's helping you. When you're employing women to do this domestic work, you are giving them work. And so sometimes if you just flip your perception of it, that I'm actually supporting a woman owned business, I'm actually right. When you drop off your laundry, I'm supporting a small business. The resources that you have that you share are helping you. And maybe you feel guilty about that. But if you look at it though, like I'm helping too, then it's a win win for all women.

[A]

Yeah, it's interesting. You're dead on. And I Was just thinking we recently hired an electrician, a woman. I chose to have a woman handyman or handy person. And I have zero guilt about that. I think, I just, I think there are a lot of socio political implications of inside the home. I'm quote unquote supposed to be doing that. I am supposed to be able to handle it all by myself.

[B]

Like it says something about you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If you don't.

[A]

Yes. And it doesn't say anything about my husband, by the way.

[B]

Right, right. So that's what we really have to tease out. And all women have to sit and have that kind of reckoning with themselves. Like, whoa, why am I buying into this? Because it is un realistic. And honestly, when you're watching all these women who are the examples, they're getting paid. It is a job, it is work, it's work for them. It's no different than what you're doing right now or what I do when I show up to people's homes. It's work. And so being able to outsource is so important. I mean, yeah, I could google maybe how to hem my own skirt. I don't. I drop it off to my tailor. Yes. I could cook all of my meals and do all the thing, but I don't. Sometimes I hire a nutritionist to help me with my recipe. Like help me with the things that I can't do on my own. And so, and not because I'm inadequate sometimes, it's just that I don't have the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And women don't have all the time in the world.

[A]

Right. And because our time is limited resource, I think that what we choose to do with that time, I think that expression time management is a misnomer because we're not managing time, we're managing, managing the choices that we make with the time that we have. And so when we think about the choice of what am I going to do with this hour of my life, There are a lot of things that are much more productive, much more impactful, or just simply much more desirable.

[B]

You are spot on. Yeah, that's it.

[A]

And that's okay. We gotta let that be okay. Faith, I could talk to you all day, but I have to ask one last question. I know you have a three step activity for recentering values with homemaking. Talk to us about acknowledgment, action and alignment.

[B]

Well, I got, I kind of got this idea because I thought our homes, sometimes we say the homes are a reflection of who we are.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I understand that, but I also actually Think that home is a reflection of our values, what we value. And so I wanted to create something that puts our values at the fore and is actually what motivates us to do the decluttering, to do the soul work, to do the organizing from a more intentional space. So the first step is acknowledgement. And that means, okay, what is a value that's important to me? I acknowledge that simplicity is important to me. Keep it simple. That's me. Step two, then, if that's my value, is an action. Give an example of a domestic action that supports or exercises that value. So decluttering things that get in the way or make my life unnecessarily complicated is an action.

[A]

Right?

[B]

The third one is alignment. Giving yourself like a mantra. So while you're doing the work, you can constantly say this to yourself to affirm the reasons why you're doing the work. So the simple statement combining the first two steps would be, I align with simplicity by releasing thoughts, behaviors, and objects that unnecessarily complicate my life. Right. That's what I'm saying to myself as I'm doing this work. Like, I am aligning with this. This is not fueling me. This is not meeting my needs. Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity. And so now my homemaking becomes about my values. Practicing my values in my own home, letting them be just amplified by the way that I keep house.

[A]

What a great example. And that really resonated with me. I think simplicity is something I've evolved into or I'm evolving toward. And just when you said removing things that complicate, I think something inside my body felt like an exhale. I heard something I needed to hear. So, Faith, thank you for writing this book, for doing this work. I know our listener is going to want to find and follow you. So, friend, you can find and follow Faith on her website or on socials at Organize with Faith. We'll put all the links in show notes and absolutely make sure to order her book, what Stays and what Goes, available on Amazon. But let's keep our local bookstores in business. Faith, thank you. It was an absolute honor to have you on the show.

[B]

Thank you for having me. I had a blast, Faith.

[A]

Me, too. All right, let's close out with this. Homemaking was never just about the home. It's been shaped by history, by culture, by expectations that most of us didn't consciously choose but have absolutely felt the weight of. And the goal here isn't to do it better or more perfectly or more like whatever version we've been shown the goal is to decide intentionally what stays, what goes and why. Not just in your closets or your cabinets, but in your roles, your relationships, your identity, and the expectations that you've been carrying. To create spaces that reflect your values, not somebody else's standards. To recognize that this work has value and to expect that value to be shared, not silently carried. And to let go of anything physical, emotional, or inherited that no longer aligns with who you are. Because living isn't about having the perfect home. It's about creating a life that actually feels like yours, that's aligned, not a sign. And that is and will always be woman's work. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure right now. Get up to 45% off with minimum purchase plus get a free professional [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply. Hi, I'm Mike Troy, host of the American Revolution Podcast on the Airwave Media Network. This podcast is the origin story of the United States. How we went from colonies ruled by a king to the democratic republic that we have today. The American Revolution podcast tells the story of the revolution from beginning to end. Please subscribe for free. We're available on all major podcast platforms. I hope you will join me today on the American Revolution Podcast.