Podcast Summary: This Is Woman's Work with Nicole Kalil

Episode: Unlearning Bad Sex Ed: Gen Z, Sex, and Power with Carter Sherman | 352
Date: October 13, 2025
Host: Nicole Kalil
Guest: Carter Sherman

Overview

In this episode, Nicole Kalil is joined by award-winning journalist and author Carter Sherman. Together they explore how Gen Z is navigating sex, identity, and power amidst outdated sex education, shifting cultural norms, and expanding online communities. The discussion traverses the impacts of abstinence-only education, the role of the Internet in sex ed, the connection between sex and power, evolving LGBTQ+ visibility, critiques of the sex positivity movement, and the fight for agency and autonomy in sexual health and relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Redefining "Woman's Work" and Sexual Agency

• Nicole opens by reinforcing that "woman’s work" means owning one’s choices, body, and pleasure.
• She contextualizes today’s sexual climate: “Sexual freedoms are being chipped away under the guise of protection... Young people are so anxious about the cultural and political climate that they’re afraid to date, afraid to explore, afraid to know themselves.” (01:17)
• She frames the episode as examining “the second coming of the sexual revolution... unfolding on campuses, at school boards, in courtrooms and in bedrooms.” (02:07)

The Impact of Internet and Miseducation

[03:13]

• Carter: “It is basically impossible to understate the impact that the Internet has had on the ways that young people do and view sex. The Internet is sort of like this mass social experiment.”
  • The Internet provides both misinformation and critical community, especially for LGBTQ+ youth.
  • Pornography is a “huge provider of sex education,” while social media affects body image and self-objectification.
  • It's not all negative: “Sometimes the Internet can be a real place of community and connection, particularly for young LGBTQ folks.” (03:39)

Limits and Dangers of Abstinence-Only Sex Ed

[04:59]

• Carter: Schools are a crucial venue for sex education, but abstinence-only education often dominates, fuelled by "an explosion of federal funding" since 2000.
• "The thing about abstinence-only sex ed is that it doesn't necessarily tend to work... people who undergo [it]... tend to be less likely to use things like condoms."
• “You can create a perfect storm where you’re not actually creating a system where people are having sex less and you’re potentially making the sex more risky.” (05:53)
• The lack of trusted adult guidance pushes young people to rely on the unreliable randomness of Internet searches.

Shifting Marriage Trends and the “Sex Recession”

[07:20]

• There’s a misconception that the “sex recession” means young people are having less sex by choice; it’s more linked to "a relationship recession" due to later marriages and changing norms.
• “The age of marriage actually has quite a bit to do with the way that people approach sex and relationships right now.” (07:22)
  • Marriage ages have risen, partner sex is less frequent among the unpartnered.
  • "We have this idea that single people have a lot more sex. In fact, it is people who are partnered." (09:12)

Sex, Power, and Gender Politics

[10:20]

• Nicole: “It feels a little bit like this isn't about sex at all. It's about something else... power... It feels very anti-women.”
• Carter: Agrees, introduces the idea of "sexual conservatism"—a movement intended to control sex (favoring straight, married, potentially procreative sex) and reinforce traditional gender roles.
  • “Everything is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.” (10:47)

LGBTQ+ Visibility and Shifting Identity Narratives

[11:52]

• Gen Z is coming out in record numbers: “Somewhere between like a third and a fifth of members of Gen Z have come out as some variation on LGBTQ.”
• The Internet enables discovery and self-acceptance: "All of them Googled 'am I gay?'" (12:40)
• Location is less relevant—searches peak even in conservative ("red") states.
• Carter highlights a culture war between "sexual progressivism" (expansion and rethinking of rights and roles) and "sexual conservatism."

Identity, Fluidity, and Labels

[14:07]

• It's easier and safer for young people to explore their identities.
  • Middle schoolers now test out pronouns or labels, sometimes reverting later.
  • "Being young has always been a time when people try on identities and cast them off.... What has really happened is being LGBTQ is now a part of that iterative process." (14:38)
• Older generations argued their identities were innate for survival, but Gen Z embraces ambiguity and fluidity: “It’s okay to be fluid, it’s okay to be ambiguous.” (15:19)

Personal Discovery, Labels, and Experience

[17:29]

• Nicole: "Most humans learn best via experience..."
• Carter: “Many of the folks that I interviewed had sort of gone through a number of different labels before they settled on something that felt right—or before they settled on I don’t actually want to be labeled... labels are supposed to be useful for you. If they’re not useful, you can discard them.” (18:18)

Critiquing Sex Positivity and Mediocre Sex

[19:01]

• Carter critiques past sex-positivity messaging: "There was an idea that to be sex positive meant having as much sex as possible, and the quality of the sex didn't really matter so much."
• This led to “a lot of really bad sex” (Nicole, 20:46).
• Studies: Women had very low rates of orgasm in college hookups, men often indifferent to their partners’ pleasure.
• “At its best [sex positivity] advocates for comprehensive sex ed, for a real understanding of consent... But we can get lost in the sort of rah-rah sex... in a way that obscures the true political aims or ideals.” (20:27)

Memorable Quote:

"I was having sex for this idea of who I wanted to be as a feminist. And then that made me not understand what feminism even was, because the sex was bad."
— Carter Sherman (20:52)

Navigating Influences, Finding What Works for You

[22:07]

• Carter: Healing starts by acknowledging that "politics have set the terms of our sex lives"—from abstinence-only sex ed to social media images to porn.
• “We can’t really begin to heal... until we acknowledge that they’re there and that these influences are out there... you have to be able to see influences for what they are and sort them out yourself.” (22:36)

Self-Discovery and Mutual Acceptance

[24:13]

• Carter encourages moving from "living by a script" to curiosity and self-determination, emphasizing that scripts should be personal, and respecting that others’ scripts may differ: "Once you start to let go of that script within yourself, you also have to agree that, oh, other people don't have to live by the script that I've written for myself either." (24:34)
• Encourages delight and intrigue as drivers for a fulfilling sex life and society.

Where We Share Common Ground and Where We Diverge

[25:44]

• Carter discusses attending a National Pro Life Summit, finding that young conservatives and liberals alike seek "valuable relationships," love, and acceptance, and share similar insecurities, regardless of their sexual politics.
• "You're never going to achieve self-actualization, probably... we just have to accept that this is a lifelong journey and there aren't strict answers." (27:14)

Communicating About Sex in Relationships

[28:38]

• Carter advises openness and humor: “Sex is an inherently funny thing. It is at best inelegant, I would say. Approaching these conversations with an acknowledgement that all of us are going through it, and having a sense of humor is very key.”
• Shares personal anecdote about the anxieties of virginity and the unnecessary weight it carried due to lack of open conversation.
• “If you are able to treat [sexuality] as another element of your life, treat your sexuality maybe even as your hobby, that can be so profoundly freeing for people.” (29:54)

Fighting Back Against Control—Local Action

[30:53]

• Carter urges focusing on local politics—"so much of this policy is actually really set at this local level, and it is really being set in school boards and in state legislatures."
• Change—both positive and negative—often originates not in Washington, but in local activism and policy.

Notable Quotes

• “You are the decider. You're not the decider for everyone else, but you are for yourself.” — Nicole Kalil (01:11)
• “Sex is about power.” — Carter Sherman, citing Oscar Wilde (10:47)
• “All of them Googled 'am I gay?'” — Carter Sherman (12:40)
• “Once you start to let go of that script within yourself, you also have to agree—other people don’t have to live by the script that I’ve written for myself either.” — Carter Sherman (24:38)
• “If you are able to treat your sexuality maybe even as your hobby, that can be so profoundly freeing…” — Carter Sherman (29:54)
• Nicole closes: “Sex is not shameful or dirty... Sex is human. It's natural, and it's deeply personal... When we allow other people to make decisions for us about our bodies, our identities, and our relationships... we lose ourselves. You are the decider... This fight over sex isn't really about sex. It's about power. And reclaiming that power, your autonomy, your voice, your agency is now and will always be woman's work.” (32:21)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:41 — Nicole’s opening context: autonomy, redefining woman’s work
• 03:13 — Internet’s profound, double-edged impact on sex ed and community
• 04:59 — Abstinence-only sex ed’s failures and consequences
• 07:20 — Changing marriage norms, “sex recession,” and relationship trends
• 10:20 — Sex ed as power struggle—“sexual conservatism”
• 11:52 — LGBTQ+ Gen Z: coming out and searching for support online
• 14:07 — Identity exploration: safety, fluidity, generations
• 17:29 — Experience, identity labels, and self-discovery
• 19:01 — Sex positivity: what worked, what didn’t, and its blind spots
• 22:07 — Navigating media and influences—healing through critical awareness
• 24:13 — Self-discovery and mutual acceptance
• 25:44 — Shared desires and insecurities across ideological divides
• 28:38 — Advice on talking about sex and normalizing sexual conversations
• 30:53 — Fighting back: focus on local engagement and activism
• 32:21 — Nicole’s closing statement: reclaiming autonomy and defining your truth

Tone and Final Takeaways

This episode blends personal anecdotes, journalism, and cultural critique in an engaging, candid, and occasionally humorous tone. Both Nicole and Carter encourage agency, open exploration, self-acceptance, and curiosity—while warning against scripts imposed by outside forces. The message: "You are the decider," and safeguarding that autonomy is the crux of "woman’s work" in today’s world.

For listeners of any age, this conversation offers permission, insight, and call-to-action: challenge restrictive norms, insist on comprehensive sex education, value experience as a form of learning, honor personal and others’ identities, and engage both locally and personally to reclaim sexual agency.