#578 - Ben Affleck

Summary

This Past Weekend #578 - Ben Affleck

Host: Theo Von
Guest: Ben Affleck
Release Date: April 24, 2025
Podcast Description: What happened this past weekend. And sometimes what happened on other days.

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1. Vanity and Aging in Hollywood

Theo Von opens the conversation by questioning whether celebrities lose their vanity as they age, prompting Ben Affleck to reflect on societal pressures related to appearance.

• Theo Von [01:12]: “Do you lose vanity as you get a little bit older?”
• Ben Affleck [02:17]: “Nobody wants to get older. Right. Because what it Means is like, you're gonna die, and nobody wants to really face that.”

Affleck discusses the challenges of aging, emphasizing the inevitability of physical changes and the importance of becoming comfortable with oneself.

• Ben Affleck [03:11]: “I'm lucky because I don't feel like, 'Oh, shit, I better look young.' I am who I am, and I'm all right with that.”

2. The Dichotomy of Hollywood Life

Exploring the dual nature of life in Hollywood, Affleck shares his love for filmmaking juxtaposed with his desire for a private family life.

• Theo Von [03:31]: “It's hard to know if you seem like a guy who likes being in Hollywood or doesn't like being in Hollywood.”
• Ben Affleck [03:38]: “There are things I really like about it and things I really don't like. I wish they didn't have to be together, but they are.”

Affleck expresses his preference for privacy and his reluctance to engage in large social events, emphasizing the importance of family over public scrutiny.

• Ben Affleck [03:56]: “I like my family, my kids, and my life. I wish that were more private.”

3. Impact of Paparazzi and Media on the Actor's Persona

The conversation shifts to the invasive nature of paparazzi and its effects on actors' personal lives and performances.

• Ben Affleck [05:23]: “The look on your face is kind of like... every time they take a picture of somebody, they're going to look pissed off.”
• Theo Von [06:24]: “It's Black Mirror-ish, man.”

Affleck elaborates on how constant media exposure can undermine an actor's ability to create believable on-screen personas.

• Ben Affleck [07:25]: “It's really hard work to create the illusion that this person is a real person in a real circumstance.”

4. Transition from Acting to Directing

Affleck discusses his motivations for directing, highlighting a desire for creative control and personal fulfillment beyond acting roles.

• Theo Von [20:28]: “Do you think you wanted to start directing because it gave you even more of a sense of accomplishment?”
• Ben Affleck [20:36]: “I'd rather fail on my own terms or succeed on my own terms.”

He underscores the challenges of Hollywood's competitive nature and the lack of job security, which fueled his transition to directing.

• Ben Affleck [22:32]: “There's no seniority, there's no tenure, there's no retirement, no gold watch.”

5. Discussing "The Accountant 2"

The dialogue turns to Affleck's latest film, "The Accountant 2," featuring John Bernthal. Affleck shares his enthusiasm and confidence in the movie's quality.

• Theo Von [28:43]: “Go out and see it, and it's great.”
• Ben Affleck [29:10]: “It's a movie that anybody can see... it's smart and it's not like, 'Only young people like this or only old people like this.'”

He praises John Bernthal's performance and their collaborative chemistry, describing their on-screen relationship as a "two-hander" akin to brothers.

• Ben Affleck [29:07]: “He's amazing in the movie and he plays your brother.”

6. Directing Process: Collaboration and Iteration

Affleck delves into his directing philosophy, emphasizing the importance of collaboration, iterative editing, and aligning with the cast's creative instincts.

• Ben Affleck [38:11]: “Some people really get how to have a good time. I wish I did.”

He advises on the collaborative nature of filmmaking, highlighting the necessity of clear communication between directors and editors to achieve the desired comedic effect.

• Ben Affleck [41:04]: “You have to listen to feedback. It's not personal.”

7. Parenting and Teaching Resilience

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Affleck's approach to parenting, particularly fostering resilience and emotional strength in his children.

• Ben Affleck [48:17]: “Some of the best lessons I ever learned in life were from failure.”
• Theo Von [48:59]: “You'd have no experience.”

Affleck shares his dedication to ensuring his children develop resilience by allowing them to face and overcome obstacles, rather than shielding them from all hardships.

• Ben Affleck [51:04]: “These things are not going to kill you. They actually do make you stronger.”

8. Relationship with Family and Sibling

Ben Affleck talks about his close relationship with his brother, highlighting their collaborative work in the film industry and mutual respect.

• Ben Affleck [61:21]: “We are close. We’ve worked together a lot, and he’s a brilliant, funny, amazing guy.”
• Theo Von [61:37]: “Being uncle's fun.”

The discussion underscores the importance of familial bonds and how they enrich both personal and professional lives.

9. Future Directing Plans

Affleck reveals his intentions to continue directing, especially as his children grow older, allowing him to balance his professional ambitions with family life.

• Ben Affleck [73:50]: “I may even direct another movie next year... I want to spend my life happy, I gotta have fun.”

He acknowledges the demanding nature of directing but expresses a commitment to pursue it while ensuring quality time with his family.

10. Reflections on Hollywood's Evolution

The conversation concludes with reflections on the changing landscape of Hollywood, including filming incentives in different states and the shift towards streaming platforms.

• Ben Affleck [76:12]: “Georgia's got a huge incentive program. They get all Marvel movie shoots down there.”
• Theo Von [77:58]: “It's like, me and Ben, you're talking about fires and Dunkin Donuts.”

Affleck comments on the strategic decisions behind filming locations and the economic implications, emphasizing his preference to stay in California for personal and professional reasons.

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Notable Quotes

• Theo Von [01:12]: “Do you lose vanity as you get a little bit older?”
• Ben Affleck [02:17]: “Nobody wants to get older. Right. Because what it Means is like, you're gonna die, and nobody wants to really face that.”
• Ben Affleck [03:38]: “There are things I really like about it and things I really don't like. I wish they didn't have to be together, but they are.”
• Ben Affleck [05:23]: “The look on your face is kind of like... every time they take a picture of somebody, they're going to look pissed off.”
• Ben Affleck [20:36]: “I'd rather fail on my own terms or succeed on my own terms.”
• Ben Affleck [29:07]: “He's amazing in the movie and he plays your brother.”
• Ben Affleck [48:17]: “Some of the best lessons I ever learned in life were from failure.”
• Ben Affleck [51:04]: “These things are not going to kill you. They actually do make you stronger.”
• Ben Affleck [54:42]: “I truly don't want to come off as...”
• Ben Affleck [61:21]: “We are close. We’ve worked together a lot, and he’s a brilliant, funny, amazing guy.”

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This episode delves deep into Ben Affleck's perspectives on aging, the complexities of life in Hollywood, the challenges faced by actors in maintaining their persona, his journey from acting to directing, and his heartfelt reflections on parenting and family. Affleck offers candid insights into the balancing act between public life and personal fulfillment, making this a compelling listen for fans and aspiring filmmakers alike.

Transcript

[Ben Affleck]

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[Ben Affleck]

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[Theo Von]

Today's guest is an actor, a writer, a director. He's won an Oscar award. You know his movies like Good Will Hunting, Gone Girl, Batman, the list goes on. He has a new film, the Accountant 2. It's in theaters this Friday with John Bernthal. You may have seen the first one. I had a great time getting to know him. Today's guest is Mr. Ben Affleck.

[Ben Affleck]

You find a song I've been singing?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I lost my. I wonder if you lose vanity as you get a little bit older. Like, not you, but like do pe. Do. What does that.

[Ben Affleck]

I don't know. I see some people, like, I don't know, it's hard to tell cuz, you know, you see some people like doing crazy looking things and you think like, that looks crazy. Why are you trying to look 18 years old? You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

Oh, like he's on Celebrity Big Brother right now. Who's that guy? He kind of looks like Jack Sparrow.

[Ben Affleck]

I don't know. I don't know you're talking about, but I can imagine. You know what I mean? You kind of can like a lo. I think you can go one of two ways. Like if you see yourself all the time and especially if like the way you make a living is by kind of in part the way you look or whatever it feels like, you know, people can get like obsessed with it. You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's kind of who I was thinking of. Mickey Rourke, I think.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

No, no judgment against him, but he trusts. You know, it's like you can. It's definitely an active. Yeah, some people it's like an active thing. And then you're in a real kind of like conundrum with yourself because you have to get old. So then you, you would constantly be feeling like afraid to get older, I guess, or you'd be in like in.

[Ben Affleck]

A. Yeah, I think it's a tricky thing, right? Like, you know, nobody wants to get older. Right. Because what it Means is like, you're gonna die, and nobody wants to really face that. And also, you just find out, like, you know, I, I, you know, it's 50, man. You'll. When you get there, you'll see, like, just regular. That used to be normal hurts, like, moving around. You're like, damn, what happened to me today? You're like, oh, why is my back hurt? Oh, because I got up and then I sat back down. You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I petted a small dog.

[Ben Affleck]

Creates, like, small injuries all the time, you know. And so you start to get a little bit that, that can kind of affect you. And I think if you. I think part of it's. You gotta just get comfortable with the fact that, you know. And I guess I'm lucky. Cause I'm. I don't feel like, oh, shit, I better look young and, you know, kind of am who I am and, And I'm all right with that. And also, kind of what I, what I like, what I'm interested in more and more is stuff that doesn't necessarily involve, like, how I look like that pressure. I think, like, for women, I. For anybody who's sees himself all the time, it's like, I think that can turn into, like, a vicious cycle of trying to look at shit and fix it or look younger or something. Whereas, like, you don't have to look any kind of way to direct movies, you know what I mean? Or, or have a business, you know? So I'm. I'm. I guess I'm lucky in that way.

[Theo Von]

Do you. It's hard to know if you. It would seem like you seem like a guy who likes being in Hollywood or doesn't like being in Hollywood.

[Ben Affleck]

I guess there's things I really like about it and things I really don't like. Right. And I wish they didn't have to be together, but they are. Right. Like, this kind of life is. There's. You got to take the good with the bad. I don't really like to, like, do big social events or go out much. I'm kind of shy. I don't really want to be on. Certainly when I'm, like, in my regular life and I'm walking around in my, you know, whatever, underwear and T shirts. I don't want people looking at me. I like my family, my kids and my life. I, I wish that were more private. I don't, I don't know how many people really want to be sort of scrutinized in that way. But I, I really like making movies, and I like Telling those stories. And so look, the truth is I always knew that was kind of a part of it. And so, you know, I deal with it. I don't. There's things I, I don't love about this business, a lot of them. You know, it can make you kind of crazy. You know, it can record. And there's stuff that's just no fun for me. Like, you know, events and shows and stuff like that. I don't. Some people really know how to have a good time. I wish I did. I wish I was out there. Like, great, we're going to hit it and I'm going to. You know what I mean? Like, as if I had that attitude. I'd probably be happier about it. Yeah. You know, I mean.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, dude. I'm always trapped inside of myself. There's always like a lot of. Just like somebody like, you don't like being in a crowd. I'm like, I have a crowd inside of me right now.

[Ben Affleck]

The crowd in my head is busy enough, right?

[Theo Von]

30 people in here and we're out of order. So I, I got enough problems on the interior right now, so I can tell. Dude, I can totally. Oh, I can totally relate to that. And every time there is a. An. And then we'll get off this. I want to talk. I know you. I want to talk to you about directing and acting. But. Because, yeah, I was just. I was like, this bit is so. Because they always get pictures of you where you seem like you're like the, the, the dwarf that like, is kind of like the backup dwarf, you know, like you're on the side, you're smoking.

[Ben Affleck]

You'Re like, what is that guy? I didn't. I don't know that character. Like, is he pissed? He's a little pissed, yeah.

[Theo Von]

He's understudy.

[Ben Affleck]

He's the understudy dwarf. Okay.

[Theo Von]

And not dwarf. Like you're a regular headed guy. But it's like. But I, And I shouldn't have said dwarf. I shouldn't say anything. But it was like, I don't know, they all. And it's like they only put this chronology out of you that makes you seem like you're kind of bummed.

[Ben Affleck]

Well, here's the thing. If the only time, like when somebody's taking a picture of me, I'm bummed because usually I'm with my kids, I'm trying to go somewhere, and then there's four guys. We're like. And I'm like, hey, man, every time. Can you give me some time? I'm trying to Be with my kids, I'm sure. Do you mind? Can you. You know what I mean? So the look on your face is kind of like. And then they go away, not taking the picture. You go inside and you're having a good time. But it's this selective experience of like, take a picture of somebody, every time they're feeling irritated, they're going to look.

[Theo Von]

Irritated, especially if you're the one irritating them.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, it's like, I'll come piss you off and then take your picture and then put. And then be like, look how pissed off. Right.

[Theo Von]

That's exactly what. That's exactly what that whole system is, really.

[Ben Affleck]

Right. But. And it's like useful because that's why, like, you sure, you've seen on all the stuff, like the, you know, that's kind of the idea is like, follow somebody around, antagonize them, and then hopefully they'll have like a nervous breakdown and go crazy on you and then your video be worth more money, you know.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's. It's such a.

[Ben Affleck]

It's.

[Theo Von]

That whole thing gets really. Black mirror ish, man. You know, it really gets kind of like.

[Ben Affleck]

Like I can remember I. A long time ago, you know, years and years ago. Like, I really had a lot of empathy for Britney Spears because I remember that it seemed like. And it's not somebody that I. I knew or hung out with, but I just like everybody else, you see all this that comes through and I. But having had my own experiences myself, I knew like, these are. People are following her around in a time where she may or may not have been having difficulty. I don't know, because I don't know her. But I do know that the. The cycle of having people harangue you and yell at you and hassle you and follow you, it kind of seemed like that itself was kind of whipping up the whole thing into a tizzy. So it's. It's like they're not helping. Well, yeah. And they're kind of poking a stick at it. Look. Look at it. And that's where it felt kind of like that's the first time I thought this is kind of a. A weird kind of unintentional, I think culturally, but kind of collective cruelty where what's taken out of the image that you see are the people around, you know, waving the stick at the tiger or poking on it or whatever. And all you see is the. The growling animal or what is. But like that a part of that is because somebody come around and, you know, hitting on it or whatever. To make it get active. And that's where you think, okay, well, this isn't really news. It's not even real. It's not what would be happening if this effect wasn't taking place. And. And that's where I thought, okay, you know, the sort of wise thing to do is to just sort of, like, maintain one's perspective and try to remove yourself a little bit. It does, which is what I would like to do. I think there's this sense that. That, like, if you see someone's picture all the time, they must want you to be seeing it. Right. Which is not the case at all for me. I'm self conscious. I don't really want you to be seeing that. I don't see any reason for it. As an actor, it's no good for you. Because I don't really want people, if they watch a movie to be like, that's not him. Because I saw him yesterday eating lunch, and I know he's who he really is. It gets in the way of you being able to create the illusion. It's really hard work to create the illusion that this person, like the character in the account and two, for example, is a real person in a real circumstance. In order to get the audience to care about it, to laugh, to find it exciting, and empathize with the character, they have to suspend disbelief. That's harder if you're constantly being shown something else. So I think it gets in the way. It makes it harder to be an actor. And it's also just. It's also not good for you. People start to resent you if they see you too much, no matter whether or not you're trying to be. So you go, no, no, I don't want to do this. And nonetheless, like, I remember 20 years ago going through an experience where I was like, it feels to the world like I'm trying to shove myself in their face. And nobody likes that. Right. Nobody wants to be the, like the. The camera hog. The guy who's trying to.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Get him a new Ben Affleck shoes or whatever.

[Ben Affleck]

I'm like, man, just leave me alone. And I'd be. I would be much happier. So in a way, it also can damage your career. Although I think it's. I don't pretend to understand the nuances and the. Of social media and how to manage that as celebrities who. I don't do it. Some people do it really well. And I think there is a difference now because, like, it's like if you have 100 million followers, that's actually valuable and meaningful in a different way. I still. I'm kind of old school, I guess, in a way of seeing medium school. I think I'm middle school. Yes, exactly. I am a seventh grader.

[Theo Von]

Oh, dude.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I don't even think. I don't know if I graduated that when some of them. They let you skip. I guess if you're, you know, depending on what county you're in, they hold you back. They hold you back, dude, bro. The scariest thing was when, like, the dumb bully kid got held back, and.

[Ben Affleck]

You'Re like, you had to stick around in your grade. And, dude, they were like, bro.

[Theo Von]

I remember we got work, kid.

[Ben Affleck]

Six, ten, and. And, like, sixth grade, dude.

[Theo Von]

We got word that Damien had gotten held back, and people were like, oh, hell, no, dude. We cannot do Damien again.

[Ben Affleck]

Hold me back, too.

[Theo Von]

We cannot do Damien again. Like, Damien has to go out to pasture. Wherever they put these kids that leave sixth grade, and they're like, damian's coming back.

[Ben Affleck]

Finish their education.

[Theo Von]

Shut him down, dude. Tase him or something, you know, put a tire spike when he's leaving out of his driveway in the morning, but Damien cannot come back. But, yeah, it is interesting, and it is kind of a sickness. I think a lot of people see that stuff as a sickness these days. But I do think it's fascinating about the suspension of disbelief and that that was something that used to be amazing about celebrities, is like, you never got to see them, right? And so you only got to see them and actors, and you only got to see them on screen in this way. And so you really envision them that way. I mean, you would almost be shocked if saw a celebrity in person or an actor in person who didn't like. Like Indiana Jones, if he didn't have his hand.

[Ben Affleck]

Just gonna say that is that. When I was a kid, I kind of thought Harrison Ford was that guy. You know what I mean? Like, and it. That's Harrison Ford. I think he's probably the biggest, you know, movie star of my childhood. And whether it was like, you know, Indian Jones or. Or Star wars, like, he was the guy. And I kind of thought he was that guy. And so it's a little weird to see that guy just, like, you know, in his sneakers and his kind of raincoat walking around Brentwood, it's sort of like, of course it's disappointing or it's disillusioning or something, because you. You have this thing in your mind that's People went to a. You know, Steven Spielberg and George Lucas went to A whole, you know, use all their talent. Went to a bunch of work to make this dude look like Indiana Jones and Han Solo. And I, I think what I've seen now is like, I actually don't even want to see, like, the actors that I really like. I don't want to go on your social because I don't want to know what you had for lunch because it just makes it harder for me to get into, like, what, you know, what you're doing.

[Theo Von]

I love that. And that's. I think that is a real directorial way to think. I think. I mean, I can see that in your brain. I mean, I'm just a judge. I'm just a guy judging you. They just met in a room somewhere. But. But I never thought about that, that that's how it is. That. Yeah, you don't want. You want them kind of, you want to. Hollywood has almost bitten its own tail in that way because there's this underlying, like, valueless current really, that's kind of like a very cheap currency.

[Ben Affleck]

It's Hollywood. It's. It's Hollywood sort of adjacent side of media. That's what culture that. That profits from and circles. And there's a symbiotic relationship between Hollywood and obviously, like, here I am promoting my movie and running around, and now I don't want to go on like a tabloid and do that or whatever it is, but that, that becomes part of that culture too. And. And then you have like any interview show or all these. And you're right, in a sense, it is Hollywood, because if you do a movie at Universal, you know, you'll see that person's doing all NBC, Comcast owned, you know, talk shows and appearances, right? Like, it's not a coincidence because when they do their presentation in the boardroom for Comcast to their shareholders, they go, look, we make these movies, we spend a lot of money, and then we get the stars and we plug them into all of our other shows that we also own. And there's a lot of synergy, so on and so forth. The. The idea, though, is like, okay, there's. That's a kind of a tax that you end up sort of paying on your sort of life and the one. And on this thing that you're trying to build, which is something that connects with people and moves them and that they want to go out to a movie theater and pay good money to see. And it makes it a little bit harder then to have to kind of go around and do all that other stuff and be like, okay, well, that's not who I really am. And that's. And, and. And to try to sort of be interesting and relevant in some other way that isn't really what you kind of even wanted to do. And so, so you're right. It's sort of part Hollywood and also kind of Hollywood adjacent.

[Theo Von]

Eating.

[Ben Affleck]

It's.

[Theo Von]

It does eat its tail in a way because it's. Because the acting in the creation, it's like a watch looking at the beauty of a lake. Right. It's like this is picturesque and this is like how they meant the waves to look. And there's a current here and there's an inflow and outflow and something landed in the water over here and left a ripple and something el. This is the B story and there's a ripple. But then it's this under. It's this. All this stuff under it and it's almost starting to like kind of drain its own lake in a way.

[Ben Affleck]

It's a good metaphor. Yeah. Like the, the movie as the kind of lake and the underneath of what's both what goes into it and what happens behind the scenes. And also what's. And it does kind of like. It's interesting. Like. Yeah. Is it. If you over tax it, it lowers the lake and all of a sudden it doesn't look like a beautiful lake. It starts to look like. Like the. The low country marsh and it pulls down. You start to see all black mud around the edges and the muck and. And that's. Yeah. I don't know how to kind of balance that. But as a. As a director, you know, you're right. Like I would say that's the way. The principal way. I've always kind of looked at this stuff. So it used to be that you. You had an actor and you had people knew less about them. And now a part of even casting for me is what do people think or of and expect this person to do and. Or be. And how can I. Both. I have to rely on that and use that. But I also have the opportunity to kind of subvert that in a way. And. And so you have to be mindful not just of the story you're telling, but what does the audience bring into the theater with them or. Or when they turn on television, you know, expect that's.

[Theo Von]

Dude, that's. Yeah. I think that's advanced thinking to be honest with you. I really do.

[Ben Affleck]

But it's just learned by lived experience mostly. You know, find out like I even often make mistakes. You know, like if I sometimes have found If I sort of. I did a movie where I had, like, a very blonde wig that was like a medieval flair or something, I. I wish I was Ric Flair. That would be spectacular. I'd love to play. It was actually a good movie. I really liked. It was called the Last Duel, the Point. And it was great. Director, Ridley Scott, and he had this idea for it.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, really? Scott.

[Ben Affleck]

And yeah, there's the thing there, you see? And. And I liked the. If that. If no one had, I think, had ever seen me or whatever. I thought that was really. Yeah. Interesting. The problem is that people.

[Theo Von]

I think what it was, Aaron Carter.

[Ben Affleck]

Created noise around, you know, look at this hair. Is this different. And we know it's a wig. And so now you look at it and you go, but I know he doesn't look like that. And so it causes you to kind of think it's false. As an example of kind of probably not being able to go that far away from myself and still have people go, okay, I can sit aside what I know and just watch this story and. And like it and believe in it.

[Theo Von]

Dude, that's fast. That's insider baseball, man. Now, I could. It makes total sense. It makes total sense that. That, that. That would start to affect how we see things. You know, there's something that's happening where it's hard to get people to believe in some of these movies, you know, and people's attention spans have changed. It's gotten interesting.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, a bunch of things. The. The fact that, like, even. Even the online world, for example, you see now that, like, shorter and shorter and shorter, like, clips or what. Even my son, who's constantly showing me clips of you, by the way. You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

So is he a nice kid?

[Ben Affleck]

He's a great kid. Yeah, he's a fabulous kid. And he's. And he's. He. Now when I watch him, like, scroll, it's like he doesn't even get through the six seconds. Right. You know what I mean? He's like, you know, and he'll, Like, a long period of time for him is four or five seconds, and it's. And then I'm like, hey, man, you know, let's watch this show or watch this movie. And it's like he gets bored fast. He got to really love something to sit through it. And then he, you know, binges, like, all the episodes, like, we just sat through, like, and watched, you know, Invincible, this animated show, you know, and then it's like, let's keep going. It's so. It's this weird dichotomy of. On the one hand, it's like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Okay, then plug in and like mainline this one thing and eat it all up till it's gone. And yeah, so it's, it has really changed. You didn't used to be able to, to like pause and select or even have that much to choose from. Yeah, like that many choices is overwhelming to the, to the mind. Like we weren't made. I don't believe evolutionarily and as human beings to like, you know, we're supposed to be living in like a village and see about 100 people in our lifetimes. Right. That's the vast majority of human history. That's how we did it. And I still feel like in a way that's how we're socialized. It's why, for example, if you're feel left out of a group, it's very painful because like in, you know, thousand years ago, if you got left out of the, the, the village, the group, whatever, and then take you to hunt, you died. Right. Those people to live.

[Theo Von]

And so it hits something really limbic inside.

[Ben Affleck]

And even social media, for example, you're looking at stuff and you go, damn, why is everybody else's life so good? And I'm seeing the life you're advertising looks so fucking cool. And my inside life feels like shit. That also is like a, like a basic primal thing. And I think that's what, you know, this stuff kind of touches. But, but the amount of information now that comes in because really now everybody's a celebrity, right? Everybody is a celebrity. Everybody is followed, everybody is out there.

[Theo Von]

And there's newborns, there's four months old and 1100 followers.

[Ben Affleck]

And it's really like 1100 followers is kind of. It's just a. It's not any different from celebrities, just a matter of degree.

[Theo Von]

But this is a four month. He can't even open both of his eyes at the same time.

[Ben Affleck]

And it's. Yeah, exactly. And. And that's kind of become the. That as the currency of man that looks great, you know that like the currency of like fame in and of itself as a desirable thing. Like people go, man, I want to be rich and famous. Like, take rich.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

You know what I mean? You know, famous is not, not gonna make you happy. Yeah, it seems like it will because it's like, oh, people like me and know my name and kind of know who I am and I'll feel like I've done something. I think a lot of times what happens is if it doesn't come with a real sense of, like, achievement or accomplishment.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

Actually feels hollow and empty and like, and. And undeserved.

[Theo Von]

Do you think you wanted to start directing because it gave you even more of a sense of accomplishment? Yeah, I wanted to get a weird question, but does that make any sense?

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, it does make sense. I wanted to. I really, I didn't. I wanted to fail on my own terms because I had gone through some movies that. Where I was like, I don't like this. I don't agree with this, but you move, you know, you got to do how it's like being a playing football team, whatever. You got to run the plays that the coach sets up. You know what I mean? They're to, you know, run a draw play, you know, get the ball and, you know, turn around and run a sweep. Right. Because they're not blocking that way. You know what I mean? It's just. That's. That's not going to work. Right. So you. That's how the. That whole art form is sort of structured, by and large. And what I found was, you know, I had a real strong sense of the way I wanted to do it. And when it, when it didn't work, when it worked, I. I didn't feel great because it wasn't me that had that feel, you know, I didn't feel like. I didn't feel proud of it. And when it didn't work, I just felt pissed off, like I couldn't wanna do it. God damn. I. I didn't want to, you know, I, I said, or. Anyway, and that's a terrible feeling. So I'd rather fail on my own terms or succeed on my own terms. And I. And that's where I kind of got into to directing. And I always. I want to do, even when I was younger and I, like, I just didn't have the confidence and the certain point, I kind of had nothing to lose. And that was really what kind of gave me the courage to take that.

[Theo Von]

Leap in the directing, you mean?

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, like, as an actor, I sort of got real cold and, like, had a couple of movies that didn't work. And then, you know, all of a sudden it can be kind of over for you. That's why it's a tough, really, business. Yeah, man. Like, there's no, like, seniority. There's no tenure. There's no, you know, retirement, no gold watch. If. If your show doesn't work or doesn't work and nobody wants to hire you, like, they're just gonna hire Someone else. You know, it's. There's 130,000 people in SAG and there's only 30,000 people that work every year. Right. And then there's a. Even smaller amount of those roles where, you know, you have more than two lines. So it's a very. It's very tough, right? And so if you're not. People aren't watching, they're not coming, or it's not interesting. See you later.

[Theo Von]

And now it's different because I think the movie theater, you know, it's like it's a new attack. I think it takes novel thinking these days. I think it takes. I think that movies themselves, long form. I think it's. They're gonna have to find some new. Unless it is, like, great or new or so novel. They're gonna have to find some new ways to either present it or edit it. I'm not sure what it is, but to me, just as a viewer, it feels like we're in this shift because so quickly have people gotten into these quick moments. And it's not even that their attention span is short, their commitment. It's like they don't want. It's like. Like, I'm not committing to all the.

[Ben Affleck]

Other options that you have.

[Theo Von]

Totally. You're sitting here, computer. You have.

[Ben Affleck]

I was a kid and we went out. There wasn't else. There was three channels or nothing on tv, and it wasn't. And if you didn't go see the movie in the theater, you had to wait, you know, a year for it to come out on, like, VHS or DVD or whatever it was, or cable. And so you were kind of rumor.

[Theo Von]

You just had to wait for it to come out. A diorama. Like it was bad.

[Ben Affleck]

Exactly. The cave painting and how long it's gonna take you to paint this on my cave.

[Theo Von]

Or a tattoo. A guy came through with a tattoo, and it told a story.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah. And so you had to, like, it.

[Theo Von]

Looked like a domestic dispute a lot, but you're like, hey, you know, there's every. There's a story for everything. But, dude, even like this, like, Danny McBride gave me this, like, two, like, a month ago or something. This light, it's like a flashlight or something. Well, this side just like a flashlight. Right. But the other side is like a wiener light. Like, you can put, like, a wiener on something. It has like a. But I'm just saying, like, everything has, like, two, like, seven things now.

[Ben Affleck]

Right.

[Theo Von]

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[Ben Affleck]

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[Theo Von]

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[Ben Affleck]

You know, and I think you're right. You want to get people to go to the theaters. Movies either got to be really good. Like, you can't just used to be like, okay, let's go to three movies in the theater every weekend. People are going to go to one of them. Now you gotta have a reason to want to go out and see it where I'm lucky because, you know, the reason why I'm really confident about this movie, the account 2 is actually plays great. It's a really good movie. People love it. I've been, you know, but I was the one where I was like, let's make. Let's test this movie. Let's take it out there. And I'm like, okay, this movie belongs out there theatrically. And there's still. It's still more difficult. In the old days, this movie would have a home run, easy, obvious. I'm like, the movie's great. It works great. It's a big smash hit. Now you have to like, okay, work hard to get it out because. Because ahead of time, you screen it for people, you see what they say, and the reaction's pretty consistent. Interestingly so. But now it's like, you know, I think your point about what you have to do, like the Minecraft movie or Barbie or, you know, it almost has to become like a cultural event, like where people are going, acting the scenes out. Like, there's a whole reason to go do it kind of, you know, really, really good. And that's really what I really believe in this. This movie is. Listen, I've, you know. Absolutely.

[Theo Von]

Would you come out and say it was good if it wasn't?

[Ben Affleck]

Not like that. Yeah, I would sort of talk around it or talk about. Well, there's some things I like about it. But now I wouldn't even want a movie to go out theatrically. I didn't think it was gonna work the. Actually, because it's. It. You know, I think both, you know, there's people that will watch this on streaming because I do think the bar is lower. And I think that different kinds of movies work on streaming and, you know, great movies work on streaming too. But I would say I would choose to do that. This was one that was supposed to be. I wasn't, you know, it wasn't like, we're gonna go out theatrical. It was when the movie came together and worked as well as it did. You know, we thought, this is definitely a theatrical movie. And it's. It's. I think it's really good. I'm really proud of it. I love it. John Bernthal's great. It's funny. Yeah. My brother. He's great.

[Theo Von]

He's your brother?

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, that's to me. And it's. We're like a two hander. Yeah, yeah. Y'all are brothers in the movie. He's not my real brother, but yeah, yeah, he's. He. And he's amazing in the movie and he plays your.

[Theo Von]

So wait, so who is the accountant? Or you can't tell.

[Ben Affleck]

No, it's me. Right. I'm this guy's accountant who's got. Who's.

[Theo Von]

Are you a cpa?

[Ben Affleck]

I'm a cpa, but it's sort of one of these things where it's gonna sound a little bit far fetched when I tell you, but it's actually very plugged, which is we grew up to obviously together as we're brothers. And we had this father that was very tough on us, like Heavy Duty Military Guy. This is in the first movie, right when we were kids, you see flashbacks and he kind of was, you know, trained us movie. You've seen the first movie, right? This is the second. You saw the first one? Me and John came out like eight years ago. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

So this is the second one, the sequel.

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I didn't sor. I didn't put it together and it.

[Ben Affleck]

But I think this. This actually, you know, which is rare, and I definitely wouldn't say this if it weren't true, is it's better than the first movie. It's funny, it's got more kind of heart. It's. It's more broadly accessible. Action's better. And I really like the first movie, so.

[Theo Von]

And you directed this one too?

[Ben Affleck]

No, I acted. A guy named Gavin O'Connor directed this movie who's a really good director, who directed the first one.

[Theo Von]

And how do you decide who is a good director? Because you are a good director yourself.

[Ben Affleck]

Thank you. But I guess the way you decide that, honestly, is by watching their movies.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Ben Affleck]

You look at it and you go kind of, you know, and, and. And if it's something that you do, you sort of watch it and you can tell. Even movies where there's instances where it's like, might not be my kind of movie, or it might, you know, my. My taste, but you can still say, okay, well, this somebody who really understands this is like a master. This is somebody who's very competent, or it really is to. To my taste. And I'm like, this is amazing. Yeah. But, you know, it's hard to get good at. So, you know, there aren't very many great directors and that's that's one of the really tricky things about, about making movies. I'm really. This is the third time I've worked with this director, Gavin, and I really like the guy. He did Miracle. He did movie Warrior. Warrior is with the boxer and no Charlotte. Why am I forgetting his name? The dude from Venom, Tom Hardy. Oh, and Nick.

[Theo Von]

No, people love him.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah. And there was. And he did Miracle, which is about the Olympic hockey team.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. Against Canada. America versus Canada, I think, or something. Russia.

[Ben Affleck]

All right.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, Russia. The original. Oh no, Russia's like dirty Canada.

[Ben Affleck]

What's right. Exactly.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's kind of like.

[Ben Affleck]

And that's.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, no offense to anybody's Russian, but also, you know it. So it's not like we're keeping secrets.

[Ben Affleck]

From him advertising that.

[Theo Von]

So is it? Would you go work on it? So if you and John Bernthal, you guys are buddies, you get along well.

[Ben Affleck]

I love the guy. Yeah, I knew him, I liked him. So that makes really close with him on this movie. Yeah, we just hit it off really well. And it's like, I. I'm sure you experienced this like in your line of work. Like some people you kind of just hit it off with. It works. It's great. Like, oh my God, you don't even know kind of how it happens. And sometimes the chemistry is just not there.

[Theo Von]

You know Tim Dylan. Have you ever met. Seen Tim Dillon?

[Ben Affleck]

No. What about.

[Theo Von]

Oh, you just gotta watch him, dude. He's so funny. He's just one of the funniest guys he ever made. He just made me think like he's somebody that's really funny. Shane Gillis.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, Shane Gills is funny. But I mean, so. But I'm saying, like for you personally, right, like you might find that like you sitting down talking to somebody works, even if somebody's great, they might come in and you guys just don't hit it off or they might be great together. In this case, I really felt like with John, like, we got really lucky and we both kind of. It's like a two hander. It's like a kind of odd couple sort of brother, because I'm very reserved, very straight. He's very tough and ballsy and so like it. You know what I mean? And so we're. We're kind of opposites, but we love each other, but we're kind of brothers. We drive each other crazy and we're frustrated with each other. And there's kind of those things really, those kind of relationships, dynamics and stories really depend on the chemistry you have. And John's a just amazing actor. But also it was great to work with him and I love the guy. I respect him. He's a good man. He's a great father, he works hard. He's just everything I, I, you know.

[Theo Von]

I've heard a lot of, I've heard a lot of neat things about him because he podcasts as well, you know, I think or he has. You might have to take breaks from it if he's acting a lot. Not how long does like how long are you shooting something like that. And then are there phases during a movie shoot where it's like, it starts off, you know, it's like. And you just kind of get burnt. Like is there a way to kind of.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, because the way they set it up is like, you know, and I don't think this is like optimal necessarily, but because of it how you gotta get everybody together and, you know, build the sets and do all this and all at once, you know, it gets, you end up working like, you know, 14, 16 hour days. You know, there is, you know, it's a function of just the some inefficiencies in the way it works and sometimes just what you have to do. So you, you're constantly working on sort of all you're thinking about morning, night, and then you go home, go to sleep, wake up, go back to work. So you can get burnt out on it, but you can also like with account two, it was like it started to just work better and better than I thought. And so every day I was thrilled to go to work. You know what I mean? As I get older, I'm like, I want to work with people that I really like. Yeah, that make. Cause like so much your life is spent at work, work that becomes kind of what like obviously, you know, I have my family. That's the number one thing in my life. And I just make the time for that. I have my kids, I'm divorced. I have them, you know, half the time, so I got half the week. Then I'm like with them. The other part of my life I'm gonna spend at work. And that's. So I've realized like, if you want my life to be happy, I gotta have fun. Then I want to be working with people that I really like and respect. I enjoy being around.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

And it's not always easy to choose that. Not everybody, Ken. You get lucky, you know. And so I was with. This was really lucky. I love John do.

[Theo Von]

Have you ever made. Yeah, because David Spade and I wrote a movie that we just shot A couple months ago.

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, really?

[Theo Von]

Yeah. So it was fascinating. I've just kind of learned about how to do it. Like, we've been friends for how long?

[Ben Affleck]

How long did you shoot for?

[Theo Von]

4 years. We shot for 23 days. And we got pretty quick. It was. It was quick. We got pushed by the fire, so everything kind of got messed up. And we kind of. Not everything got messed up, but we got, like, sandwiched in a moment where it was like, everybody's here. The winds are 40 miles an hour today. We have to. There's no. We paid for it ourselves. So it was like, we have to find out.

[Ben Affleck]

When people leave your own money on something, all of a sudden it's like, okay, we're gonna do this. Like, people have a whole different attitude. That's something I've found.

[Theo Von]

They're like, oh, we need a Dalmatian. I'm like, we don't have a Dalmatian. We'll shave that sheep and staple some.

[Ben Affleck]

Tattoo some spots on this and shoot.

[Theo Von]

And with removable glue, glue some Oreos to it and get that bastard out there, you know, teach it to bark. We have 40 minutes. Get on YouTube and teach that thing to bark. Have you ever made a movie that you. That you didn't put out or that wasn't put out?

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, yeah. Early on, I made, you know, a bunch of movies that were, like, independent movies that, you know, they didn't have, like, distribution. They have, like, a studio that said, okay, we're paying for this, and when it's finished, we're going to put a bunch of money in advertising, because you got to spend a bunch more money to advertise a movie after you make it.

[Theo Von]

Right?

[Ben Affleck]

And. Or at least, you know, and that. That's one of the big things that's changing now. People are like, okay, how can we do this in a more intelligent way? Because all that money spent on television commercials, just a wasted now, that's. That's why I'm here. Like, this is more effective way to do it. You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, dude. It seems exciting. Well, here's the thing. I think when you tell me that it's good, I honestly think that I believe you, that it's going to be good.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, I'm telling the truth. The movie's really good. I wouldn't be like, if you had a movie that wasn't good, you kind of do a few. The basic things. And because, look, this is going to turn out like, you know, you're gonna. It's gonna be a bell curve One way or the other, the better you are, you're gonna move your bell curve a little bit further down and have a better chunk of movies. But I got about, like, 12 movies that I really love and I'm proud of, and about 25 that are like, I like this. I didn't like that. You know, and about 10 or 12, whatever, that are like, that's terrible. I hate this. I can't watch it. It was awful. And when I did independent movies, you. They would. Sometimes they just didn't get distribution. Like, no one wanted to put it out or. I went to a film festival. I haven't had movies that were so. Like, just something so terrible happened when the studio already was making it that it wasn't put out. But, you know, you have, like. They change their plan. You can kind of see, oh, now we're gonna shift to this or that. Now you can put something on streaming. And it. You don't used to be, like, you were gonna go out theatrical, so you kind of were like, naked. You just had your. You know what I mean? And if it didn't work, everybody knew because they're saying, look, movie made 10 cents this weekend. And, you know, you'd want them to take the billboard down. You drive past the billboard like. Like, the bomb. The movie's bomb.

[Theo Von]

You know, you're up there at night in your Batman costume, just painting over it. Big one of those big paint reachers, dude. Did you ever see Family Man? Did you see that movie? Yeah, I love that movie. That's like, oh, yeah, Family Man. I liked really a lot. Dunkirk I liked.

[Ben Affleck]

I thought was cool. A brilliant, brilliant guy. Tell me about your movie with David Spade. Who do you play? Like, what is. Is it comedy?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's just bus boys. It's like, he's like a guy. He's just like. We're just two kind of dumb guys or whatever. We just got the first edit through, so it's like I'm watching it right now.

[Ben Affleck]

Let me tell you. Like, that first cut of the movie. Like, when I see the first cut of my own movie, I want to kill myself, really. So, like, you should not go crazy seeing the first cut and not liking it. I almost have never. Like, now I have a company, and we make a bunch of movies, and, you know, the first cut, it's. This is one of the only movies where the first cut came in. I was like, it's great.

[Theo Von]

Really?

[Ben Affleck]

90% of the time you're like, okay, we got a long way to go. It's a Very iterative process. They get better and more work is done after you finish shooting to make it good.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's what I'm doing. So I'm meeting with an editor next week.

[Ben Affleck]

Sit down.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

And be like, this is what's supposed to be funny about this scene. Like, and explain it to them what you think is funny and is good. Because they. It may seem obvious to you and it probably doesn't to that person. Like, you can lose track of. You go, look, the reason it's funny is because you think, we're going to do this. We. We know this about us from the first, you know, whatever scene. And when it come in, it's that take where I, like, yelled at the guy. That should be a surprise. Like, you'd be surprised how often it's hard to put a cut. Go in and tell them.

[Theo Von]

Tough, because I've been spending my nights, like, watch. And now I feel shitty, too.

[Ben Affleck]

To put your. All that work into it and look at it go, what the is this? Right. It's the worst feeling in the world.

[Theo Von]

It feels horrible because it's like, I'm very particular about, like, what I create. Like you said in the beginning, it's like, I like to make things. I know what I want. You know, it's like, I know intuition. And if I fail on my intuition, then that's exactly where I want to fail. Because that's pure to me. Right? Like, that's okay.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah. And like, that's what you want to do. Great. Right. But it's a very tricky thing for other people to know that you.

[Theo Von]

Yes.

[Ben Affleck]

And to know. You know what I mean? Your sense of humor, your worldview is all obvious to you. Right. But it's just not to people. So a lot of times you have to spend, like, more time than you would have thought, literally going, here's what should be funny. If you can explain the joke. Like, you're super funny guy, funny comedian. You understand comedy very well. So you can sit and break it down to him and go, like, you gotta know this about it. What's funny is that, you know, we didn't expect me to do this, right? That's a callback to this other moment or the. The whole thing that when I did it, what I thought was funny is this take where I did that. Like. Because on the set, I'm sure, you know, you're. If you're doing a comedy and you shot it, you had moments where you were like, that's funny, right? That I think that's funny. I think that's good. Yeah. Sometimes it's literally about going back into the dailies and saying, look, okay, go find the close up or find this two shot. The thing where I said to David and David looked at me like this, and that was the one where I left and thought, yeah, that works. Like, there's no mystery or magic to why they're doing it a different way. They oftentimes just need feedback. It's. It is. This is not like sculpting or writing a novel. It's not a single person. You know, it's collaborative. It has to be collaborative, Right. If I'm directing a movie with you in it, and it obviously is going to have your comic sensibility. Like, I got to know, get what's funny to you, or I'm not the guy, right? And. And I'm going to need help along the way. Any direct character is going, like, so how come? What. What do you imagine about this? Or what do you think? You know what I mean? Like, that's why you have to explain it, sort of talk about it. Because that person's got to understand all those things that made you be funny in the first place and start going, oh, people are laughing when I say, oh, these are funny. You know what I mean? And yeah, and you've put it together and professionalized it, but like, you gotta share that with them. Otherwise, really. And then this is also where people sometimes get into fights, of course, because people's ego gets in the way. But ego will kill you. You have to be able to hear. I don't care what you do, you have to be able to hear. Like, this doesn't work. This is dog. Because the audience will tell you. You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

That's the thing. And it's like, I'm so particular. I'm not particular, but I just know what kind of has worked, you know.

[Ben Affleck]

That'S valuable because not everybody does. So what you have, right, is that awareness. You don't think about it, you don't have. You feel it, right? You're like, that feels funny. Or when you see something, you're like, this feels wrong. Like, makes you uncomfortable. Right? You see?

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

So that is a thing that's unique to you, right? So you need to, like, give them access to that and get it. And when you, you know, and if somebody's gonna, like, take it personally, it's not personal. Like, it's your, you know, and what David thought was funny, like, okay, like, you have to be connected in that way and you have to understand that it's not about like, okay, you guys, now I'm gonna go make my vision of this thing. No, that's a disaster.

[Theo Von]

No, no, no. I just think like, yeah, like, this is why this was written this way and this is why it's funny. And so this is the first time that we're like more hands on. On with it.

[Ben Affleck]

Then you should definitely be hands on because by the way, no one's gonna do it for you, right?

[Theo Von]

Oh, I agree with that.

[Ben Affleck]

On its own, man. It's gonna get better if you get in and work on it. And by the way, you're gonna see it again and you're gonna have to go, okay, closer. Now let's try this, let's try that. And then again, the way movies that get better really is iterative. It's like, it's like, it's like coats of paint. You know what I mean? You got to keep on going. It's like a good paint job on a car is like 12 coats of paint. That's why it looks good.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

You know what I mean? That's.

[Theo Von]

Do movies. Do movies take a long time to edit sometimes?

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah. 26 weeks is the post production schedule for most movies, Right. That includes music. Yeah. And it's. It's longer than the production. You're trying to grab everything you can during production. It's more expensive every day to shoot editing is. You rent the editing room, the facilities.

[Theo Von]

We needed an owl. One day we had an owl, right? This. It was eleven hundred dollars an hour for now. Yeah, it was like semi endangered. I don't want to say endangered, whatever, but it was like, do they charge.

[Ben Affleck]

More if it's like, you know what I mean? Like, if you can get a chicken, they're not in danger. You can kill that, just cut his head off. That's $10 for the owl.

[Theo Von]

You can get a tall chicken.

[Ben Affleck]

No one's gonna know the difference. You can take the chicken, break his neck and he's turned around.

[Theo Von]

You can get a tall, curious chicken.

[Ben Affleck]

We'll give you that. And so I think maybe that's just like one of those things where it's like, what's the rate for owls? You just get to make it up.

[Theo Von]

If you sell owls, it's just so. It's like, God, you get into there and there's just all this animal entrapment. I. What else was I thinking about? Would you let your children. Well, let's. I want to talk to you a little bit more about directing, so. Because Argo, you directed, right? And did you care about the Middle East. How much were like a Middle east guy. I know you. I've read some.

[Ben Affleck]

Not really. I did, I, I did study the Middle east in school and so I understood about it. I wouldn't make a movie that I didn't. It'd be like making a movie with you and not getting your humor right. Like, it would just be crazy. Like you if as the director, you got to care more, be more interested in that movie than everybody else. Everyone else is going to be bored of it, right. And you got to love it it the whole time through. So the big key is like, this is going to be interesting to me. There was a lot of things that were interesting to me about that movie. One was a real story. The CIA age and who had done it. The, the, the guy, the people that I met and talked to at the CIA. The actual nature of like intelligence work versus, you know, what you have seen with a, like, you know, you know, like super spy. That's not really realistic. And this story was really interesting to me. And also I thought it was like the fact that they had had this like bizarre connection to Hollywood and this Hollywood makeup artist and that we're trying to bridge those two worlds was, Was really interesting to me. But it was a scary, challenging movie because the director's main job is tone, right? Like, that's the main dress of the director is going to really create is like, what's the tone of this? Like, what's the vibe? What's. Are we. Is this serious? What are we interested in? Like, what do we consider funny? What do we, you know, all those things that, that, you know, go into all the choices we make in life from the car. You get the closure by all that kind of what is your taste? And not everybody's gonna like it, right? Some people, it's just not going to be their taste. You got at least make it as good as you can to your own taste, like you said, your own instincts.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, you gotta find that tone that matches. Because people want to believe they're going to expect a certain tone from you as well, I think. You know, and when you don't work.

[Ben Affleck]

You'Re like, this is kind of craz. Jesus. You know what I mean? Corny. It's like, it's, it seems silly or whatever. And it's like, because you're asking someone to take something seriously that they can't take seriously or, or think is funny, that they don't think is funny. And, and that's where it's a, It's A tricky kind of nebulous job. But that, that's the most interesting to me important thing about it. And that's. Yeah. You know.

[Theo Von]

Do you, would you let your children act, do you think?

[Ben Affleck]

Well, I wouldn't let him act professionally while they were children. No. But I would, would let you know if they want to do plays and, and make their own kind of stuff with their friends, that's fine. Me, I, I don't, I don't, I don't think it would be, I don't know, judgment against people that do it. I've done playing movies with, you know, child actors and stuff and that's fine from my experience acting as a kid. And what I, and what I want for my children is not, is, is not that. But also you got to understand that then they, you know, I got a 19 year old, I got 116, I got 1 13.

[Theo Von]

Oh wow.

[Ben Affleck]

They make their own choices. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh yeah, that's true. Right. As a dad you just like that. Is that, is that gotta be tough for a. When you're a dad, like you kind of have already lived some life so you were like, ah. And not even about acting, it's about anything. And then your kid is kind of like making it like is that. And you don't want to like probably push them too or like because then you're pressure some dude. That's got to be a real like walking a police line or something.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, I mean that's the whole job of life. It's like for me, before I had kids, you know, I didn't really realize what my life was about. And then this becomes the central challenge of your life and, and if you have a. Everybody has complications and tricky in their life and that's part of being a parent is managing that with what kind of life am I bringing my kids into making a good life for my children? How do you know? And that, that's part of that is my kids are growing up out here in la. I didn't grow up in la. I didn't. I never met a famous person or actor or anything that just seemed like a million miles away to me. And totally for sure, if you're in.

[Theo Von]

The rest of the world, it feels so far away. And then you forget after you hear for a while how far away it seems to other people. Like if you meet and you know like just anybody who was in and it just like that's like. It was a little.

[Ben Affleck]

I remember I was 12 years old in Boston and I saw Christopher Lloyd who played the dude on Back to the Future, you know?

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

And I saw him walking down the street. I think he was doing a play. Yeah, exactly. I followed the guy for like six blocks. Like now I'd be like, there's this 12 year old kid following me.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Ben Affleck]

You know what I mean? Like, I stalked him like I couldn't believe it, that it was the guy from Back to the Future. I lost my mind.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

And it was the only, you know, celebrity, famous, whatever person I'd ever seen or know. And, and so my kids are. Now, they're seeing different stuff. Some of it's useful for them because it disabuses them of some illusions that I think are worth being disabused of. And also. But I'm also like, I, I don't. Look, they're going to, if you, if you, their kids are going to kind of be. And do what, who they are, what they want to do, which your job is to let them know that they're loved, that they're, keep them safe, you know, provide them opportunities. And also not, you know, you got to resist the temptation to, to try to get everything out of the way for them because you're not gonna learn anything or develop any grid or, or resilience if shit's just easy.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's crazy. I never even thought about that. It's like you're watching them walk and there's something kind of in their path and if you take it away completely, then they're not going to learn how to deal with an obstacle. But if you leave it there, then you're gonna have to watch them go through an obstacle. That's gotta be crazy.

[Ben Affleck]

And it's hard watching your kids, like even trying to climb over something. Your instinct is pick them up, take them over. But you have to like, yes, you don't want them put their finger in a socket, you know what I mean? Or drove a cliff and. But that doesn't mean life has to be hard. Yeah, it has to be difficult in some ways. It doesn't have to be. Shouldn't be traumatic, shouldn't be, you know, awful or painful. But things have to be hard for you to learn to do hard things. Yeah. And this world, like it or not, is going to demand that you do hard if you want to have anything, you know, if you want to be able to provide for your own family, have your own dreams, have, you know, the things that you want to have. Because if you don't do it, the guy next to you is going to do it better. Or, you know, or the woman over here is going to do it better and you're going to lose out.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

And also, you know, I don't want my kids to have that first big tough experience in life and like, kind of fall apart, you know. You got it. Like, some of the best lessons I ever learned in life were from failure. In fact, for sure, I didn't learn much from success. I learned a lot from failure. You know what I mean? But the most important thing you learn is that you can survive it. You can be okay.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

They can knock you the down and you, you know, you. It's like getting like. When I was a kid where I grew up, I mean, we used to get fights all the time.

[Theo Von]

You found out that beat the out.

[Ben Affleck]

Punching the face and get your ass kicked. And that's not. And you'd be like, yeah, he kicked your ass. And you go like. And you get up and you come to school next day and you know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

It's kind of like a tough day. Dude, that first day was so tough.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah. You're like, damn, Randy. I know. It's worse that you have to hear about it then, like, just getting hit five times, it's like, yeah, you kind of get your bell rung. You know what I mean? And. But it's the like, that's kind of going back to that thing about, like, embarrassment. Like, kids will suffer more from being humiliated than physically hurt, for example. Like, that's the. That really is painful. But now I don't. I don't wish to be clear that on my kid, like, you don't need to be fighting and all the time. But it's, you know, it is valuable to know that you can fail or have something difficult happen really painful or get your heart broken. Have some girl be like, you know, be like, I don't like, you know what I mean? Embarrass you, whatever. Yeah, you're gonna be okay. These things are not going to kill you. In fact, they actually do make you stronger. If you kind of go like, okay. That was if I didn't have some of the resilience that I picked up by, you know, my early life trying to, you know, I would have just kind of given up or collapsed or had bad. I'd be like, oh, you know, and I'd fall down and never get up again.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, you'd have no experience. And you also. It sharpens your intuition. You start to. It all learns. It's all it is. If you can see yourself as a tool sometimes it's definitely harder when you're younger because some of those feelings are new and it hurts so much. You know, here's the thing.

[Ben Affleck]

Getting better at anything really never feels good. Like, if you're building resilience, it's. It's not a time that you're liking. You know what I mean? It doesn't feel good. Like, so that's what. Okay, I don't like this. This feels like. But because it's hard because I can't lift these weights anymore, because I can't. These other. You know, I'm exhausted, and the other kids are still, you know, running sprints or whatever. The. You know. But, like, th. Those are the moments, for what it's worth, where you're getting better.

[Theo Von]

You know, what is. What's something that you admire about each of your children? One day they can look back and. And, you know, I mean, the thing I really.

[Ben Affleck]

That I care most about, and it's. It's true of all three of my kids, is that all of them have, like, an innate, like, goodness of character, like a kindness. They don't. They're not trying to go out and hurt other people. They. They. And they have empathy. Like, they care about and respect other people. Doesn't mean, you know, that obviously they don't make mistakes or they're perfect or whatever. But that basic thing about them is. It is really, really important. I think it's. It's definitely also credit to their mom, who's. Who's amazing and who's spectacular, and it's great. Like, we're divorced, but we. We, I think, do pretty good together, raising the kids, going back and forth and all that stuff. And they're. I mean, they're all looked, I think, you know, like any parent. You're gonna be like, my kid's so.

[Theo Von]

Cool, and my, like, something you admire, like, individually about them, that's maybe unique, I think.

[Ben Affleck]

No, not at all. Listen, I think truly, there's so much that I don't want. I just don't want to come off. And I know my kids will be like, dad, don't go on there and talk about me. You know what I mean? My son especially is like, dude, he's right now watching this. Like, oh, no, no, no. But here's the truth. My. My oldest one has got a beautiful, like, commitment and sense of, like, wanting to make the world truly a. A better place. And she'll put her money where her mouth is. Like, she doesn't want to. To do something. She's not asking other people to do. She makes personal sacrifices. She has that kind of integrity. You know, my middle child is really. Is this incredible like feels things deeply like artist, you know, kind of is. Is brilliant and so funny. And my son has got like this incredible like joy of life and magnetism and sweetness and goodness to him. And like that's the stuff where it's like whether you can like dunk a basketball or write a great paper, like great. And I'm not, you know, but like that, that's the. That to me is more important that like kind of internal character stuff.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's cool, dude. That's nice, man. Yeah, it's nice to hear dads talk about their kids. You know, I think sometimes you just don't hear it enough sometimes. You know.

[Ben Affleck]

I agree. I think it's. It's so important. Like oh yeah. Most important thing in the world.

[Theo Von]

There's not as many male leaders and as many male teachers as there were. There's not as many. Like there's, there's a space where we're missing a gap of mentorship from male to male. Cuz a lot of people will. Some people were pedophiles, whatever. But outside of those people, it's like there's not as many.

[Ben Affleck]

Let's rule those out.

[Theo Von]

Well, also anybody paparazzi who's driving around taking pictures of kids. Anybody else would be arrested for taking a photo of a kid in public.

[Ben Affleck]

But, but, and I think absolutely boys need. And so do girls. Like you need to see that there's good men. You need to understand man, good men are accountable and tell the truth. They can say they're sorry when they make mistake. They're strong. You can rely on them. They're funny like that. They can show you strength and love and, and, and all this stuff that is good and beautiful and what you, the people you want to be drawn to in your future life about masculinity. You want to know and see that modeled and if you don't, first of all in your their children who are expecting because we're as children expecting to have that before don't it you up. And if you don't see see what that looks like, you don't know kind of what to look for.

[Theo Von]

Oh yeah, dude. Did you have a fun like do you have a memory of your dad that was like fun with for you? I'm trying to think of one. My dad would. Dude, my dad was like I'm trying. My dad was really old when I was born and so my dad was 70 when he. When I was born, right? He was born in 1910.

[Ben Affleck]

That was a serious guy.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I wish he had some money, which was crazy because usually if a woman's hooking up with an older guy.

[Ben Affleck]

He'S got, he's got some money. What did your dad have going for him?

[Theo Von]

It was not.

[Ben Affleck]

It must have been charming.

[Theo Von]

He didn't have a bank. He was very charming. My dad was very, very charming. But he would like take me to the, like, he would like go sometimes have a beer by like this bar at the railroad tracks. And he would like let me walk on the bar. He'd like. And they had like these little bowl of chocolates or whatever. And if the bartender, I remember if I danced good, she would like give me some, some of the chocolates or whatever. And he'd be like, go wiggle for chocolates or whatever. And I remember. So I just remember, I think you.

[Ben Affleck]

Like when my dad pimped me out, that was a good time.

[Theo Von]

Well, he was just a, he was just pimping me for confections, you know, or sugars, you know, it was kind of an outtake from that movie Chuck a lot if you've ever seen that. But, but yeah, he would be like, go wiggle for chocolates. And I just remember that was one thing that I remember. Anyway, sorry I made that about me.

[Ben Affleck]

But it was nice to, to take that walk down memory lane.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's fun. Well, like this, there's things I remember about it like the bowls of peanuts and just like being at a bar like at like 5pm because my dad was older, he would go to rest. He would rest, rest pretty early.

[Ben Affleck]

But I remember that's funny because I was gonna say, oh, I don't have that, that kind of memories of my dad really. But the truth is like, you know, after he, he got out of the house, you know, as a kid, he, we. He worked at bars. And so that's where I'd go see him up at the bars. And he was like bookie and you know, taking bets on the side.

[Theo Von]

Oh really?

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, a little bit. And, and he was. But that, that's what he did. He was, was bartender. And then for, for, for that, for that period of life when I was kind of 8, 9, 10, 11.

[Theo Von]

Jukebox in there or anything.

[Ben Affleck]

Jukebox. And he'd be like, oh, go get the cigarette machine. I went in the bar. It was cool to visit him in there.

[Theo Von]

Remember the cigarette machine? They had that pull out, pull on them.

[Ben Affleck]

And by those days when they'd be like tell you the kid that go to store and get me some cigarettes. You walk in 8 years old, buy cigarettes. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, and also we were. Me, my brother and that. That those are. There was some. I do have some kind of fond memories of, of. Of that. I wish I had more of them. Which is one of the reasons why, like, it's important for me in my life to make sure I don't fuck, you know, that I create those for my own children.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I think it's something that we probably learn, I think as we go along. This episode is brought to you by Shopify.

[Ben Affleck]

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[Theo Von]

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[Ben Affleck]

Not at all. You know, I guess, yeah, a little bit. Like in the sense that he was in goodwill hunting with me and Matt and he was brilliant in it and then. But, you know, like anybody, like, and Matt's like, who's like, you know, my best friend as a kid. Stuff like Matt Damon, you know, you had, like. And he got more famous up. Good one thing. And then my brother, you know, so you kind of. And you know, people, if you really like, try to map it out, like those sort of how famous are you? Which is kind of a weird and a hard thing.

[Theo Von]

Right? I agree.

[Ben Affleck]

It kind of moves around. But my brother was always a working actor and then he became, Came, you know, he, he, he really established, of course won the Oscar for acting and, and kind of established himself as a great actor and had a more steady.

[Theo Von]

Kind of Pittsburgh number with Michelle.

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, yeah, you're talking about.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

Manchester by the Sea. Yeah, yeah. That's what he, what he won the Oscar for. He's amazing in that movie. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

God, it was so good. Is it? Yeah, I did something.

[Ben Affleck]

Great actor, my brother.

[Theo Von]

Is it? Yeah. Are you guys pretty close?

[Ben Affleck]

We are. You know, we're, we're close. We. He's got great kids. I love his kids and he's a great guy. And you know, you, you know, I.

[Theo Von]

Guess you get through phases in life too where you're kind of like people are. You're kind of doing the same thing or you're just in different spaces.

[Ben Affleck]

Well, that's what happens when you kind of really like get a little older. And then we were like up to 30 or whatever. I was just like hanging out with guys all the time. You know what I mean? We were going out we're doing this or whatever. And that was. Was kind of life, most of it. And so you see all your friends all the time, and my brother's one of the. You know, we'd all hang out and then you have kids, you have family, and then it's kind of like, okay, I'm gonna have Friday at 5 or whatever from 7 or. And. And then you kind of have to. You lose a little bit of that bigger network of like, who. Who are the. Like, I know who 10 of these guys are. Who are the other six. You know, that starts to kind of go away and. And you kind of have to be more selective. But, you know, my brother's is. Is a brilliant, funny, amazing guy. And his kids are. It's a joy to see his kids grow up and be, you know.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Being uncle's fun.

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, it's the best. Because then you don't really. You can kind of just like let them do, you know, you don't have to be really the dad. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know, I'll tell you this. So there was. I live in Nashville, so I moved there about four years ago. And there was. So the other night, there's like tornadoes or something. And I didn't know, like. And I live in, like, it's a nice area, but it's nothing crazy. It's not like, rich enough where you're away from tornadoes, you know, I.

[Ben Affleck]

You better be pretty. How rich you have to be to get away from tornadoes, I don't know.

[Theo Von]

I'm still the wind district, you know. So there's a freaking tornado warning. There's sirens going off over town. I didn't even know we had sirens. So I'm texting my nephew. Thank God. I called him twice. And then finally I text him. I was like, dude, I was like, bro, tornado warning. What do I do? And he's in middle school or whatever, and thank God he's like, get under your desk. That's what he says at 4am and I was like, dude, I don't have a desk. You know what I'm saying? And he goes, don't curse at me over text. And I'm like, this kid does not know how to support a family member.

[Ben Affleck]

It's just like, that's hilarious.

[Theo Von]

Anyway, I don't even know what I told you that story about. Were we talking about weather?

[Ben Affleck]

I don't know.

[Theo Von]

Family members.

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, yeah.

[Theo Von]

And what it's like to be an uncle. Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I get to see my nieces, and they're coming for Easter tomorrow, so I'M excited about that. But yeah. Yeah. Being an uncle.

[Ben Affleck]

How many, like, nieces and nephews you got?

[Theo Von]

I got five total. One of them just went to prom, so I got to be there when she took pictures. I was in Baton Rouge for that. That. It's fun. Yeah. And you kind of get to be like a little bit of the confidant. Like, you're kind of like on the.

[Ben Affleck]

Edge of day because they'll tell you stuff that's kind of like you can't talk to your parents about, like, whatever, you know, something. But you can kind of let. You know the uncle kind of know and you. So you can be kind of on the side a little bit. A little cooler even if you're really not that much going to, like, don't try to play it off like that. But you kind of get away with it a little bit. And you know, you gotta like, you can't. You can't push it. You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

But it's like. And you got to know when to snitch, too, on them too. And tell the dad what's going on.

[Ben Affleck]

Exactly.

[Theo Von]

Did you let me think about a movie thing? Oh, did you get to keep your Batman outfit?

[Ben Affleck]

I did, Yeah, I did. In fact, that's at our office. And it's. It's one of those things people like. It's like. It's one of those things that sort of like. I don't know, people like to see it. It kind of reminds me a little bit of like Planet Hollywood a little bit. So I'm always like, oh, we get this bats. Rubber batsuit here. It's just. Yeah, but it's like, Like, I don't know, it's hard to tell. Like, look, I get it. That's a kind of a cool movie souvenir. Sometimes I feel like if you put a grapefruit on, like, TV every week, you know what I mean? And then you just put it to the mall, people go by and be like, oh, there's that grapefruit from tv. You know what I mean? So it's sometimes hard to tell whether something's interesting because it's interesting or because. But. But I can see how that is kind of interesting. The most interesting about it when people see it is like, damn, how do you wear this? And it's true. It is like, of all the. Those type of the roles and stuff, like the superhero thing, the. The outfits make it a lot harder to do your job because you're kind of constrained and they're real hot. It's like, you know, when. Like, wrestlers, like, when I was a kid, used to run around with, like, trash bags to lose weight because you just dump all the water. You know what I mean? Like, that's sort of what those outfits do.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. You'd see, like, some guy just with his. Yeah, you see some guy in your neighborhood who's on the wrestling team or whatever. I.

[Ben Affleck]

Wrestlers. Yeah, exactly.

[Theo Von]

Had a wrestling team, and then he's running down the street. California lose.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, exactly. £15 in 10 minutes. You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

He's just spitting on his family members and he's just cursing because they say cursing helps you burn calories or whatever. Yeah, that's kind of interesting. But you would. But you never, like, put it back on for anything fun or to surprise family.

[Ben Affleck]

I did it for my kid's birthday when he was. Yeah, my son's birthday, and he was like. He was a little young, but I. It was fun. I got the pictures now. Now he's like, I guess that was cool you did that. At the time, I didn't know what the. You were doing. And I'm like, but it was cool, though. Do I get credit for it? Now he's like, I guess he barely. But. But I. I had fun. And that. That was the whole reason I did it. Like, let me be Batman. My son. Like, how cool is it your dad's Batman? My son was like, you know, three, and. And so he was, like, scared of the movie, but. But. But, you know, since then, it's like he'd be. It's become kind of, in retrospect, I think, kind of cool. It's hard to tell what your kids think is cool because most time they're kind of like, huh.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. They don't really tell you kind of, because it's almost like you're like, yeah, I don't know. I just watch my brother have nephews. Like, I want to get a wife and children. I don't have a wife yet, but. Yeah, you all look like your parents.

[Ben Affleck]

Are never going to be, like. Because, like, part of the thing is, like, you don't. You can't. Like, you need to separate from your parents. Right. You need to, like, move away, get out of the house, that whole thing. Like, move on, become your own. Your own man and all that stuff. And if you're too wrapped up in, like, your folks and, you know, know you can. You know, it gets in the way of that. Yeah. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You got to start to slowly separate in those ways that kids do.

[Ben Affleck]

So there's part of it where they're like, you know, and it comes off like, well, I'm like, hey, you guys want to play some games? I'll close the door. Yeah, get out of my room. Close. I'm like, just. So just leave.

[Theo Von]

And then there's that moment. It's the first time you kind of close the door. And there's that moment where the dad's just by the door and he's kind of sad, but he's in the hall. But then he goes in his room, he takes three steps, and he's like, oh, good, I got some free time. Actually, there is that moment.

[Ben Affleck]

It is. Yeah, absolutely. And they come back around. You know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

Do you think I auditioned for a Project Greenlight movie that you guys had years ago?

[Ben Affleck]

Really?

[Theo Von]

Yeah. It was one where there was, like, a guy in a wheelchair and there were, like, dangerous people were coming in. Like you were trapped in a bar or something.

[Ben Affleck]

Beast, maybe the horror movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

I just remembered that. That's crazy.

[Ben Affleck]

Audition for it. Really?

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Oh, I was not any good.

[Ben Affleck]

Wow.

[Theo Von]

I'm not a good at. I would not. I think it's a bad idea to do that. I. I just, um. But anyway, I just remember that it popped in my head. Do you still have Project Green Light?

[Ben Affleck]

It's. No, it's not. I mean, it's not currently. We did it with the company. We haven't. But we. We are not doing it now. And it. We took it. We had it on for a while back then and then brought it back. And it's interesting. I really liked it. And I thought it was interesting that, like. Because it's. Because that's what I do. And I know, okay, that's tricky. Like, it's hard. You get all this drama that comes up on a movie. But when we had, like, a million dollars to make the movie and everybody. Like, a million dollars, like, that's like nothing. And now it's almost setting people up. It would kind of just be like. Then you'd just be doing a show about people getting in arguments and smashing things and having a breakdown, because you can't really even do it for a million dollars.

[Theo Von]

Like, tons of change, unions and wages.

[Ben Affleck]

And all that stuff. Like, you're. You know, so. But I. I really liked that idea of that show and. And what we were able. Because to me, it was about, like. Like also creating opportunities for people that are outside Hollywood, you know, who could come in and be like, look, I know what I'm doing. I want to do something. And Then you got to like, okay, well, let's see what you can do.

[Theo Von]

What do you think Tom Brady's good as an announcer?

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, I think Tom's good as an announcer. I think he's.

[Theo Von]

Look, me too, dude.

[Ben Affleck]

I think he's really smart, obviously, about football. I think that, like, it's a. It's a people kind of you. And you're the, like, the greatest quarterback who ever lived. They think, okay, now he's going to come in and change broadcasting for good. And. And like just being a normal human being, it seems kind of like. But I. I mean, who do you want to listen to, analyze something. Like, if I want to, like, somebody tell me about, like a, you know, a concert. Like, I want to hear from, you know, some great musician. You know, if I'm. If you're. You figure, well, nobody's going to have better or wiser. Analysis. Analysis that Tom is maybe not about, like, telling jokes or whatever. That's something different.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, but.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, I think so.

[Theo Von]

But he's a surgeon. He seemed like a surgeon. When he's talking about it, and the way he breaks down certain moments and how long it takes to do certain things, he's like, well, they got about this many yards. They're gonna have to move about this many. This many yards a second. Like, he's definitely. You start to see who he really is.

[Ben Affleck]

Like, how much analysis went into that. I still think one of his, like, real, like one of the things that really separated him because, you know, everybody knows about how, like, you know, he, you know, he was like, drafted late and all this stuff. Like. And his, you know, his. His, like, combine numbers weren't like, you know, stuff people weren't just like, this guy's gonna be amazing. I feel like one of the things that he has that people don't really talk about is like. And this is so important is like, I feel like he. He has this thing where he doesn't get tight. He just doesn't get nervous. Like, I think that. That the. There is a huge advantage. Imagine, like, you're in super bowl and it's like, you know, 4th and 8 and you got, you know, whatever, and.

[Theo Von]

You win, you're good.

[Ben Affleck]

Everyone else's heart rate is banging their head. Adrenaline.

[Theo Von]

I think it's what makes actors good, too.

[Ben Affleck]

Good actors at certain moments, you getting relaxed. The ability to relax in tense situations where other people get tense because tension and stress, it locks you up. You know, you panic. It's like everything. It's all bad.

[Theo Von]

Oh, it's horrible. That's when. Yeah, dude, it's definitely. There's moments, the first time I'd ever audition, I was like, open the windows. Open the windows. And like, there's not a lot of windows. Windows in here and they're like, they're already open. I remember I was kept blacking out, and then I had to, like, do some scene that I didn't even care about. What are we doing here? Why are we doing that? I'm sorry. That was not a plan. Oh, yeah, dude, I want to tell you about. Do you ever see that Dunkin Donuts commercial? Because I know you did a commercial with them.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You ever see the one where they shut down that one? And is it boy, Showboy.

[Ben Affleck]

What is it?

[Theo Von]

Smoke Duncan.

[Ben Affleck]

Duncan's closed by 5.

[Theo Von]

A coffee shop in Shamokin is closed.

[Ben Affleck]

Following an arson over the weekend.

[Theo Von]

Police say a teenager is responsible for all that damage. Newswatch 16's Nikki Kries joins us live.

[Ben Affleck]

From the central Pennsylvania newsroom with more tonight.

[Theo Von]

Nikki, Julie. A lot of people in Shamokin are.

[Ben Affleck]

Upset that Dunkin Donuts is closed because.

[Theo Von]

They didn't have anywhere else to go for coffee and donuts. Today we also learned new information, information.

[Ben Affleck]

About the teenage girl police charged with.

[Theo Von]

Setting the place on fire. Setting the fire is currently at a juvenile detention center.

[Ben Affleck]

Many people who live in Shamokin are upset that Dunkin Donuts is closed.

[Theo Von]

Now I have to rely on myself to go to maybe a Turkey Hill or something where I don't like their donuts. I rather the donuts at Dunkin Donuts, and I'm kind of dealing with it, but I really miss Dunkin Donuts Donuts. I go there every day. I get a chicken baker croissant or.

[Ben Affleck]

I get some coffee Powerade.

[Theo Von]

If I'm dehydrated. I sit there all the time.

[Ben Affleck]

If I have any, like, legal work that I need to do, I go there, I meet with my attorneys there.

[Theo Von]

I'm gonna miss that place that don't open up.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, a lot of my friends go.

[Theo Von]

In there, get the cold coffee. Well, iced coffee, I guess it's called. People miss their local hangout and hope Duncan don't way. That's just that when that one closed down, man, it was just like a real. People kind of went bananas on the Internet.

[Ben Affleck]

Because it turns out, guys, the legal clinic got shut down too.

[Theo Von]

I sit there with my.

[Ben Affleck]

My legal work, my, you know, my probation officer meets me in there. I usually deal out of that place. Like, all right, yeah, you just, you.

[Theo Von]

Don'T know When a Dunkin Donuts closes down, you don't realize how many lives.

[Ben Affleck]

Intersect in that community is paralyzed. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

What's something else that you want to direct, man? Where is there something, what about you directing Timothy Shalam? That'd be so dope.

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, he's terrific actor, man. I, I, he's great. You know, and I think, and that, that's really what you kind of like. No matter what you do, a big part of it is, you know, 90% of it is, is as they say, is like picking the, the right actors because you, there's really nothing you can do. You, you're, you're kind of like, okay, now go ahead. And you can, you know, get about 10% calibration. But the right people for the right role is, is, is so much a part of, of what goes into directing is what I was talking about, like kind of understanding what people sort of think about or assumptions they have about actors that they are going to watch. There's a lot of actors that I would love to work with. I haven't worked and I've, I'm lucky to have worked some great ones so far. And I have, I have a movie that I've just finished shooting called Animals. That's your own movie out on Netflix that I directed.

[Theo Von]

Oh, congrats, dude.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah. And I got, and I, I may even direct another movie next year, which is actually pretty quick. But it's not, not all set up yet. But it's something that I really love doing and I'm, I will do it. Like, especially like as I got one kid that's, you know, in college now and the other two, like, by the time my son who's, who's 13 goes college, then I plan on kind of just directing all the time. But like I said, it takes so much focus and energy that one of the regrets I have even about movies that I really like and I'm proud of is like what periods of time that I miss with my kids because that, that just doesn't come back.

[Theo Von]

You know, you almost have to plan ahead. Like, okay, maybe they're going to be on a semester abroad or this is.

[Ben Affleck]

I'm like, I do them in la. You know what I mean? So I'm not travel so can be home for dinner and come, you know, and just make that a, make that the priority. But it's, it's, it's a part of what, why I slow down a bunch from directing because it just in order to do it in a way that I understood that it required like it just requires almost total commitment and concentration.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, man. Because we, yeah, we gotta keep telling good stories because it's important. That's how people learn things and that's how you remember things and they become part of like, you know, history. They really kind of tell history a lot of times. Yeah, it's definitely interesting about. Oh, you said something about. Oh yeah, the shooting in Hollywood's become so tough, huh? But it's supposed to, it's supposed to be getting easier.

[Ben Affleck]

Well, you know, it's tricky because what happened, one of the things that's happened is that like first of all, movies just used to be made here. Like, you know, country music was made everywhere. Like that's how it was. And then you had other states and countries that started kind of offering incentives because they felt like, you know, if we bring this business here and like it stimulates all our other businesses because there's this huge kind of trickle down effect of from the restaurants, the dry cleaners, the, you know, drivers to blah, blah, blah, all this money into the economy. And you know, LA or California didn't really, I think, whatever, I'm not sure respond or try to compete. They have a small incentive now and they've actually broadened it some and I think they, they're aware of it but, but it's, it's tricky. Whereas other states, and they're kind of controversial, some states have, have felt like they worked out for them and they're happy. Georgia's got a huge incentive program. They get all, I mean, you know, Marvel movie shoot down there. I got a place in Georgia and I, you know, that's, that's, I filmed in Georgia. It's, it's in fact the count was we filmed in Georgia and that's why, right. They start offering these sentence, obviously been.

[Theo Von]

Successful for California has ego about it in some weird way. It's hard to figure out.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, I'm not, I don't really know enough about the politics of it to know. It seems to me like, I think it's like, well, we've always had it here. We don't have to give the incentives. Like that's what's pulling people, right, People.

[Theo Von]

But it's like, but now everybody's moved.

[Ben Affleck]

And moving away and moving around and if you can't make a movie without the, the crew is what's going to make or break your movie.

[Theo Von]

Now you have 3,000 people flying to like Tibet or whatever to shoot for.

[Ben Affleck]

You know, like the uk they give out, they do these big re. So like Harry Potter movies and all the, like, DZ movie, all these. This stuff goes and shoots, like, out of the country, you know, look, it's. I obviously, selfishly, like, this is where my kids are, so this is where I want to be. But also the best technicians I believe in the world, by and large, are here. And they're really artists, too, and.

[Theo Von]

And they're ready to work, too.

[Ben Affleck]

A lot of them, they've been working. Look, you have these fires, all this stuff. It's like. But look, it's hard all over. And I get it. I don't begrudge anybody anything. I. I would like to. To preserve. Like, look, it's a big business for this country, right? Like show business. There's something that we make that everybody buys all over the world. We buy a lot of. From other countries, right? Like, this is something that people want to buy from us.

[Theo Von]

Well, I'm amazed that I was talking about this with somebody. And it may have been. Damn, I can't remember. My brain's off on the weekend. But. But we're talking about how California hasn't really done a great job of like, kind of museuming some of the. All. A lot of great parts about that were in movies. And like, you know, Sydney Porier, this is where he lived for 20 years. Or, you know, this is the Bad News Bears park where they play, like, Brady Bunch house. Right? There's some of it, but. And it's like bits and pieces on the Internet, but it doesn't seem as preserved. Like, when you get here, you almost think it would seem like more of a museum in itself, because at the.

[Ben Affleck]

Time, I think people just didn't think about it or somebody's house. They rented whatever it was. But, yeah, they haven't really. I mean, you know, you can do some of these tours and stuff, but it's kind of like, I think California. I'm not. I still feel like, even though I'm a resident now, like, that I'm from somewhere else, you know, from Boston for sure.

[Theo Von]

Massachusetts.

[Ben Affleck]

California is like. Is felt, I think, in a way. Like, hey, people come here. You know what I mean? So we don't need to bring people here. But, like, times are changing. Movies, like you say, is changing. It's theatrical business change. It's all, you know, the. The number you're looking at. The thing that people. One thing that people watch more than anything else is fires and Dunkin Donuts. YouTube. Yeah, exactly.

[Theo Von]

But account two is in.

[Ben Affleck]

Account two's out theaters on Friday and this Friday. Yes.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, go out and see it, and it's great. Do I take a date? Do I take my cousin?

[Ben Affleck]

Who do I take your whole family? Everybody. You know, actually, the truth is, is a movie that anybody can see, like, kids can see real accountants better. Like, that's the core. If accountants don't like it, we're still. I mean, you know what I'm saying?

[Theo Von]

You're balanced.

[Ben Affleck]

If you're gonna call the movie, the waiter and waiters don't go. You think anyone else is coming? But it's. Yeah, man. It's. Is a movie that I think honestly, like, works for, you know, it's. It's smart and it's not like, oh, well, only young people like this or only old people like this. It's got everything. It's. It's hard to make a movie that I think strikes this chord and kind of works for a broad audience, and it is better seen it in the theater, so. And I. It's one that I'll be willing to leverage my kind of personal word and credibility. I'm like, go see it. You won't regret it. It's really, really good.

[Theo Von]

You heard that Ben Affleck. Thanks, man. Thanks for coming in and just sharing and thinking with me and just having.

[Ben Affleck]

A good time, man. This is cool.

[Theo Von]

We're excited. I promise that I'll go see it. And thank you. And I think a lot of people will.

[Ben Affleck]

I hope so. Listen. A lot of people listen to your show, so I appreciate it very, very much.

[Theo Von]

Tell your son I said hello.

[Ben Affleck]

I will, dude. That's. That's right there. That's the whole reason for coming, right there. I got that makes me cool right.

[Theo Von]

Breeze and I feel I'm falling like.

[Ben Affleck]

These leaves I must be cornerstone oh but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones.

[Theo Von]

But it's going to take.