#579 - Mark Zuckerberg

Summary

Podcast Summary: This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
Episode #579 - Mark Zuckerberg
Release Date: April 28, 2025

Hosts:

• Theo Von: Comedian and host of "This Past Weekend."
• Mark Zuckerberg: Co-founder and CEO of Meta (formerly Facebook), entrepreneur, inventor, and philanthropist.

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1. Morning Habits and Personal Wellness

Discussion Highlights: Mark Zuckerberg shares his unique approach to maintaining equilibrium and managing stress. Unlike many who rely on caffeine, Mark abstains from regular coffee consumption, preferring physical activities like jiu-jitsu to start his day.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Zuckerberg [02:07]: "I wake up and I fight people."
• Theo Von [03:04]: "It's almost like your coffee in the morning sometimes. Like rolling. Like rolling Jiu jitsu, kind of."

Insights:

• Jiu Jitsu as Meditation: Mark uses jiu-jitsu not just for physical fitness but as a method to center himself mentally, allowing him to tackle daily challenges more effectively.
• Alternative Health Practices: Emphasizes the importance of finding non-chemical ways to maintain mental and physical balance.

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2. Family Life and Parenting

Discussion Highlights: Mark delves into his role as a father to three daughters, balancing his demanding career with family time. He discusses his parenting style, the activities he engages in with his children, and the challenges of staying connected with kids of different ages.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Zuckerberg [08:08]: "I just think it's important to take time each week. You know, Wednesday night, we really try to have a date night."
• Theo Von [50:00]: "They're just two."

Insights:

• Quality Over Quantity: Despite his busy schedule, Mark prioritizes spending meaningful time with each child, tailoring activities to their individual personalities and interests.
• Educational Engagement: Encourages his daughters to engage with technology and creativity, fostering skills like coding and 3D printing from a young age.

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3. Education, College, and Mentorship

Discussion Highlights: The conversation shifts to the relevance of college education in today's rapidly evolving technological landscape. Mark reflects on his own experience of dropping out of Harvard to pursue Facebook and discusses the broader implications for future generations.

Notable Quotes:

• Theo Von [27:18]: "Do you think people still need college?"
• Mark Zuckerberg [28:02]: "I think there's a big issue with how college is preparing people for the jobs they need today."

Insights:

• Shift in Educational Value: Marks questions the traditional college model, suggesting that interpersonal connections and practical skills may outweigh formal education.
• Future of Learning: Advocates for mentorship and real-world problem-solving over conventional classroom settings, especially as technology continues to advance.

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4. Social Media and Its Impact

Discussion Highlights: Mark provides his perspective on the role of social media in modern society, addressing concerns about its potential negative effects versus the benefits of enhanced connectivity and relationship building.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Zuckerberg [71:16]: "Interacting with people to the extent that that's helping you build good relationships is one of the things that correlates the most strongly with positive well-being."
• Theo Von [70:37]: "Do you think social media is bad?"

Insights:

• Balanced Viewpoint: Acknowledges both the positive aspects of social media, such as relationship building, and the criticisms it faces regarding mental health and misinformation.
• User Autonomy: Emphasizes that the impact of social media largely depends on how individuals choose to use it, advocating for personal responsibility and informed usage.

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5. Future of Technology and AI

Discussion Highlights: The dialogue explores the future trajectory of technology, especially artificial intelligence and augmented reality. Mark envisions AI-enhanced glasses that integrate seamlessly into daily life, blending the physical and digital worlds through holograms and personalized experiences.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Zuckerberg [88:21]: "AI is just going to be super powerful for both of those. It's a tool to facilitate your transactions, not a source of financial advice."
• Theo Von [90:43]: "So it's not as much a conviction as much as it is a space of choice."

Insights:

• Augmented Reality: Predicts the widespread adoption of AI-integrated glasses that project holograms, reducing the reliance on physical screens.
• Empowerment through AI: Believes that AI will democratize creativity and productivity, offering individuals powerful tools to enhance their personal and professional lives.
• Ethical Considerations: Touches on the importance of responsible AI development to ensure it benefits society as a whole.

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6. Personal Anecdotes and Experiences

Discussion Highlights: Throughout the episode, Mark shares personal stories, including his time at Harvard, interactions with family members, and experiences with technology both personally and professionally. These anecdotes provide deeper insights into his character and leadership style.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Zuckerberg [12:11]: "It was not a very romantic situation... just funny."
• Theo Von [52:44]: "Oreo Zuckerberg, dude, that's when you take the food industry."

Insights:

• Humility and Relatability: Despite his immense success, Mark showcases humility and a down-to-earth perspective, making his experiences relatable.
• Creative Endeavors: Highlights his passion for creativity, whether through programming early projects or collaborating with artists to create personal sculptures.

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7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Discussion Highlights: In the closing sections, Mark reflects on humanity's relationship with technology, the potential of AI, and the importance of fostering creativity and well-being in an increasingly digital world.

Notable Quotes:

• Mark Zuckerberg [94:33]: "I think the best way to look at the world is that individual people are very powerful and have a lot of autonomy and ability to go in the direction they think is right."
• Theo Von [97:13]: "We got into a lot of technological stuff... it's important to... keep working on it."

Insights:

• Optimism for the Future: Maintains a hopeful outlook on how technology, especially AI, can empower individuals and enhance societal progress.
• Continuous Innovation: Emphasizes the need for ongoing innovation while balancing technological advancement with human-centric values.

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Overall Summary: In this engaging episode of "This Past Weekend," Theo Von converses with Mark Zuckerberg, delving into topics ranging from personal wellness and family life to the future of education and the profound impact of technology and AI on society. Mark offers a candid look into his routines, parenting philosophies, and visionary ideas for integrating augmented reality and artificial intelligence into everyday life. The discussion underscores the balance between technological advancement and maintaining human connections, highlighting Mark's belief in individual autonomy and the empowering potential of AI. Through personal anecdotes and thoughtful insights, the episode provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of Mark Zuckerberg's perspectives on navigating the complexities of the modern digital landscape.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Mark Zuckerberg [02:07]: "I wake up and I fight people."
• Mark Zuckerberg [08:08]: "I just think it's important to take time each week. You know, Wednesday night, we really try to have a date night."
• Mark Zuckerberg [28:02]: "I think there's a big issue with how college is preparing people for the jobs they need today."
• Mark Zuckerberg [71:16]: "Interacting with people to the extent that that's helping you build good relationships is one of the things that correlates the most strongly with positive well-being."
• Mark Zuckerberg [88:21]: "AI is just going to be super powerful for both of those. It's a tool to facilitate your transactions, not a source of financial advice."
• Mark Zuckerberg [94:33]: "I think the best way to look at the world is that individual people are very powerful and have a lot of autonomy and ability to go in the direction they think is right."

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Final Note: This summary captures the essence of the conversation between Theo Von and Mark Zuckerberg, highlighting key discussions and insights while excluding promotional segments and non-content sections.

Transcript

[Theo Von]

I have some tour dates to tell you about. Miami, Florida, on May 10. Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19. St. Paul, Minnesota on June 20. Fargo, North Dakota on June 21. Rapid City, South Dakota on June 22. Winnipeg and Calgary in the Canada. All [e-mail] T O U R please go through those links so you get accurate pricing. And I appreciate your support for the Return of the Rat tour. Today's guest is an entrepreneur. He's an inventor, he's a philanthropist. He is one of the richest men in the world. And it's, you know, And a consensus of wealth and power exists in only so few people. He co founded Facebook in 2004 when he was 19 years old. The company that turned into Meta, which is where we are today, in their headquarters. I'm thankful to spend time and get to know Mr. Mark Zuckerberg. You drink coffee, man, or no.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Nah.

[Theo Von]

Really?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I mean, you've had it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I have. Sometimes on vacation, I'll drink it recreationally. It's like every once in a while.

[Theo Von]

Just like a. Yeah, it's like. Like a celebration.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. No, I. I just, like, hate anything that messes with. Like, I don't. I don't like any kind of chemicals or anything like that.

[Theo Von]

Oh, really? So you like to keep everything, the equilibrium? Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

My sister gives me such a hard time about this. She's like, you're just sitting there raw, dogging reality.

[Theo Von]

Wow. It's kind of true. Like, so you. But have you. You've had it before? Yeah. But you just like it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I don't like it.

[Theo Von]

So when you get up in the morning, that's not your thing? Like, is there something you do?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, no, no. Yeah. I mean, I wake up and I fight people.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. No, I mean, I wake up in the morning and. Are. Are we going, by the way? I mean, we should. We should get this.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, we're going.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

All right.

[Theo Von]

Oh, you mean you wake up and do jiu jitsu? You mean.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So I probably wake up, like, I don't know, 7, 7:30, whenever, like, the kids start making noise around the house. It's like, all right, sleep is done.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And. And then, like, it's like I look at my phone and I'm just like, all these things that these people are doing. Like you did.

[Theo Von]

What?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Are you kidding me? It's like, I have to go deal with this.

[Theo Von]

It's like.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Like, it's like this, partner. Really? God damn it. All right, so. And then it's like I compose myself and go fight for two hours, like ReCenter myself. Then it's like, now I can go deal with this stuff. But no, it's.

[Theo Von]

So that helps. It's almost like your coffee in the morning sometimes. Like rolling. Like rolling Jiu jitsu, kind of. Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And I mean, right now I'm doing more striking, so I. That's really fun. I. I just. I think it's, like the greatest sport. I mean, it's. It's like neurologically stimulating. It's, you know, it's good cardio, good strength.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

A little bit of a threat, right? So it keeps you on, you know, it's not. Not like, just like, running. I used to, like, run around the neighborhood, but running is not that thrilling.

[Theo Von]

Running compared to Jiu Jitsu is for. Running is a. Running is not really neat once you can do Jiu jitsu. Because I think one cool thing about Jiu jitsu is just like, you can lose a match with somebody, right? You can lose, like. Like, they can get you.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But you'll learn something along the way, right? And they. A lot of times the guy submitting you also wants to help you learn, too. So it's like you can lose and win at the same time. I think that's what's kind of masterful about it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, totally. Do you. Do you do it?

[Theo Von]

I don't do it as much as I would like to, you know?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Striking. Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

No, I never got enough striking, but I would just kind of like. But I would just do Jiu jitsu on the mats, you know?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Oh, yeah. No, it's so fun. It's just, like, fun to do with friends.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. And some guy chokes you so hard, and then you're just like, God. You're like, it's a good day. It's. Yeah, it's just. Yeah. It's a cup of coffee.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

A big fella just squeezes. You can't handle it. It's a cup of coffee.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Better than caffeine for me.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't know. I. I'm. I'm just not into that stuff.

[Theo Von]

Is there a. Like a. Is there like a vitamin or some staple that you kind of keep in your diet if it's not caffeine? Is there some, like, I would.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I drink a very large amount of protein. I mean, creatine. Do you got that? I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Vitamin D, like all that stuff. Yeah, vitamins good. But. But, like.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's not your Thing?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, no, never been my thing.

[Theo Von]

I. Yeah. Where did I see. Oh, we saw each other at the ufc. And you and your wife were there, right?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. Which one was that?

[Theo Von]

I'm trying to think.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It wasn't 3:12, was that. That was Alex fighting Magomed.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I was sad about that, man.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Did your wife. I could see she could, like, really. It, like, she was, like, head in her hand sometimes.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, I think she. I think she would say she enjoys it, but I think she mostly goes to. To support me. Yeah, no, she's into it. I think, you know, it's tough. I mean, we've gotten to know a bunch of the fighters, and it's just like, when you see someone who, you know and, like, get hit or go down, that's like. That's tough, right? I mean, it's like, I. I've gotten to, like, train with Volk a few times, and, you know, we were there at 298 when he fought Ilya, and, like. Oh, yeah, that was like. And that was like. Really?

[Theo Von]

Did you get to walk out with him or no?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I mean, he asked me to. To walk out with him. I was like, all right, yeah, this will be a cool experience. And then I'm just, like, you know, standing there while they're walking. Did you see that whole meme where. Where they're, like, he's, like, passing off all his clothes, and I'm just, like, sitting there, like, useless. Yeah, no, there you go. That's. That was. That was a fun. That was a fun one.

[Theo Von]

Was that scary, like, Because I guess you feel like, yeah, what do I do now?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, I mean, this was a fun moment. But. But, I mean, but watching him get hit by Ilya. So, I mean, it was like, right. Cage shot. It was, like, three feet from us. And, I mean, he's, like a big. He's like a tough guy. Right? And so that. That was. That was tough. But something after that, Priscilla was like, oh, man, I don't know if I can go watch Volk in person again. But, I mean, you know, I mean, we just have friends over. It was fun watching him fight Diego. It was good.

[Theo Von]

It was great.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It was awesome. Tough moments in round two and four, but he's. His heart, man. Like, I mean, the way he described it after, like. Did you see the shot in round four where Diego grazed his eyelid with his glove? Yeah. And he lost his vision.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And. And he, like. And you could see he was kind of like, like, just the. The head Movement and everything. Trying to stay in a good place.

[Theo Von]

Watching an animal try to survive on one of those Animal Planet shows or something. When you're cheering for the. You know, you're like, oh, it's not going to go well, but then it does. Good.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. No, he. He's an amazing guy. He's. He's. He's really cool. Very talented. A lot of heart.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. And you get to know some of the fighters. I think that's one thing that is great about social media these days, that you get to know the fight. Some of their regular lie, like, you can get involved in who they are.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

It gives you so much more of a person to cheer for. Is it tough to take your wife since you're a. And I'm just going to just kind.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Of go for it.

[Theo Von]

Since you're a go for it. I'm going to say the word really fast, just so it's like, you don't dwell on it, but since you're a billionaire, is it tough to take your wife on a date, like, at that, you know, like, do you have to live up to a standard or what's like a. Like a nice date night? What is that like?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't know. No, I think she's pretty chill.

[Theo Von]

She's a chillionaire, huh? Sorry.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

There's a whole chat.

[Theo Von]

My niece will like it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, there you go. No, I mean, I think the main thing for me is, like, life is busy. There's a million things that I could be doing at any given point in time. I just think it's important to take time each week. You know, Wednesday night, we really try to have a date night, you know, try to hang out with the kids and put them to bed every night. It's like that. That's, like, an important part of my routine, I think. I think that's important stuff to do. But. But no, I mean, we try to, like, go out somewhere, but every once in a while we'll just cook or eat at home, and that's all good. The UFC stuff, I think, is probably more for me than for her. Yeah, but she's. She's. She's a good sport about it.

[Theo Von]

Is there something you'll do for her, like. Or is there, like, a fancy date because you. You can afford to take your wife on, like, a date. Yeah, like that. That a lot of us could only dream of. Right there. Most that dream of. Is there something that you like? Is there some magical date that you took her on one time?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't know. That is a good question. Let's see. She's pretty simple on this stuff. I think most of the, you know, I like doing. I like making things right. So I don't know if you saw this thing. I like. I like working with, like, great artists and stuff. So I did this project where I've always admired Daniel Arsham, and he's this great sculptor, and I worked with him to make this sculpture of Priscilla because I thought it was cool. And. Yeah, you're pulling this up and the. And like, first of all, I think it's like, you know, make a sculpture of Priscilla partially because that's cool, partially because I'm like, I'm not gonna make a sculpture of myself. It's like, that's crazy, right? It's like, who the fuck does that? But, like, so. So it's like she's kind of the target of my creative energy, like the.

[Theo Von]

Muse in a way.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So there's all these memes online after. Yeah, there you go. Where people like, wow, I wonder what Zuckerberg did wrong that he had to make a sculpture of his wife. And I'm like, no, you guys are totally missing this. This is the thing I did wrong. It's like, you can't. Like, you're gonna have to wait to see what I have to do to make up for having made a sculpture and putting it on our front lawn. It's like, she doesn't want a sculpture of her in the front lawn. It's like, that's. That's weird, right? It's like, you know, it's. But no, but she's a good sport about it and that.

[Theo Von]

And at least you can tell the doordash guy, like, just set it by the skull.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Just by the sculpture. Yeah. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

That's kind of nice. It becomes like, yeah, I think having, like, a woman as you look out in your yard is kind of nice, you know?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I know. It's got, like, a good angelic form factor thing. It's a. It's a good vibe.

[Theo Von]

Did she make you make any adjustments to it or she like, okay, I'll accept it as is.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, I mean, I don't think she was that happy with it because again, I mean, like, who wants a sculpture of themselves in the front yard? But. But, you know, I think she thinks it's sweet, and I think she appreciates that. I mean, there's a lot of, like, more destructive things I could be doing with my creative energy.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, you made an effort, too.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. And so it's like, I designed her this, this Porsche minivan thing. It's like we took like a Cayenne and extended it to be bigger. And it's like, I do that because it's like, all right, I like cars, but I'm not gonna design a supercar for myself. Let's like just design a sweet minivan for my wife, right? It's like, yeah, it's just fun.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess creative stuff like that. Trying to be creative and show her some creativity. Oh, that's nice.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

There you go. I mean, look at that.

[Theo Von]

And where did you meet your wife at?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I met her in school. So we were in college and I had just done this prank and all my friends and everyone was convinced, they were all convinced I was going to get thrown out of school.

[Theo Von]

Okay, and where were you in school at, Mark?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Harvard.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And so, so I was a sophomore, she was a freshman. My friends were convinced I was about to get kicked out of school. I was like going in front of this like, trial for the kind of like school discipline committee. My friends threw a going away party for me. And it was in the bathroom line at the end of the party where I was just like next to Priscilla and we were talking.

[Theo Von]

You had nothing to lose. It was your last meal.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I was just like, look, man, like it's, you know, have pregnancy, man. But it's like it was not, not very romantic situation. It's like we're waiting in line for the bathroom. She's just funny. She. She's cute. And it's like. I was like, all right, hey, you know, if we're gonna go out, we better go do this quickly. Cause I'm probably gonna get kicked out of school in like two or three days. It's like, that's a good pickup line, right? It's like, yeah, that's. That's how you really show that you have potential in the world. Right? It's, you know, it's.

[Theo Von]

Well, it's a limited time offer.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. But it's not like very aspirational. It's like, hey, that's true. It's like I'm going nowhere in life and I'm about to get kicked out of school. So you're gonna want to, you know, you're going to want to go out with me really quickly, right?

[Theo Von]

It's like. Yeah, yeah. I guess another way to look at it, it's very sale rack in a way, you know.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Very sale rack. Yeah. So. But, but I mean, but everyone I knew thought that this whole thing was over. I Mean, my parents drove up. We lived in New York. They drove up to help me pack up my dorm room because they're like, it's over. You're home. Yeah, but it didn't. Then of course, I made Facebook, and a few months later, I dropped out anyway, so. Jokes on them. But. But it's. But that's. That's how. Yeah, no, that's how.

[Theo Von]

Did you have to go to the trial at school or you didn't?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Oh, no, I did. Oh, you did. And it was like the questions that they asked were even worse than the questions that I get at, like, the congressional hearings. It was like, don't you know that once you put this terrible prank website online, it is there forever? And it's like, no, actually, that's not how it works. The site's already down. They're like, you're a smart ass. And I'm like, yeah, that's probably true.

[Theo Von]

That's.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

But, but.

[Theo Von]

But half of a smart ass also is smart.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So that's that. Yeah, it's better than being a dumbass.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. Well, you know, it's like, maybe smart and a little bit of an ass and. Yeah, it works.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I'd rather be a smart ass, I think. Do you know about what was a prank site? What was it? That wasn't Facebook, though.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, no. It was this thing called Face Mash, which, you know, in the whole lore of the thing, there's this whole movie that got made about all this stuff. They made it seem like Facemash was a predecessor to Facebook. It wasn't. When I was college, I just like making things.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So whether it's statues or minivans or Internets or glasses, like, whatever, you know, I just like making stuff.

[Theo Von]

So you like being creative.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. So I. So, like, I. So it was. It was. It was. It was very mean spirited. It was very mean spirited. I basically, I downloaded everyone's ID photos from their ID cards and I made the site where it showed two photos and you clicked on the person you thought was more attractive. And then it used. And it basically looked. Took all the matchups and ranked everyone in the school based on who everyone thought was the most attractive. Very mean spirited, in retrospect. Not connected to Facebook in any way.

[Theo Von]

Right. But just like, just.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Just like, just a college kid kind of being a jerk. Yeah. But, you know, it's like. Okay, so that was not. Not my. Not my best move.

[Theo Von]

But you got to take, you know, it's baby steps. I mean, it's also pretty cool to make Something.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Some of the things I did were. Were useful and fun. That one. I put it together in a weekend. Not my best work as. Yeah, no, not my best work, but that's fair.

[Theo Von]

Not your best work. You know. Yeah. We've all had things that we made that weren't, you know, that weren't the best, probably. Did you. Let me think what I'm gonna ask you. Oh, did you? What kind of car do you drive?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

What kind of car do you drive right now? Black Wing, CT CT5. What is it? I mean, it's a Cadillac. It's nice.

[Theo Von]

Oh, it is.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's. Here, pull it up. It's. I really like driving manual transmission cars.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And I like that type of thing. Maybe it's. It's a good one.

[Theo Von]

Oh, God, that's nice. Yeah, that thing will just shift. That thing. It just gets shifty out there.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, it's good. It's good.

[Theo Von]

It's got a nice on it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I feel like you want your car to have almost as much horsepower as your helicopter. I feel like, as a rule of.

[Theo Von]

Thumb, it's probably a rule of a very rich thumb.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So for a while. Okay. So my security team kind of convinced me for, like, 10 years that I should just let them drive me places. Which, I mean, realistically, I probably should, but. But then eventually I was just like, I can't. I can't. I can't do this. It's like I. Like, I need, like, the freedom. I need to be able to drive myself. So I started learning how to fly helicopters. And then I was like, all right, well, this is just ridiculous. It's like we have the security team driving me to my helicopter that I then go. Fly away. It's like, that makes no sense. It's like, I'll just. Let's just go. Let's get a car.

[Theo Von]

It's kind of Batman. It's almost as a Batman vibe. But I guess it is true, because then you're just by yourself out there.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

What do you mean?

[Theo Von]

Or will you take somebody with you in the car?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

In the car, the helicopter?

[Theo Von]

In the helicopter?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Helicopter, Yeah. I definitely have, like, a real professional pilot fly with me.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's wild, though.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But I guess a chopper would get you somewhere pretty quick, right?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's a good. It's a good tool to have in the arsenal.

[Theo Von]

Unreal. It's California Emperor, dude. Does that feel like that ever?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, man. It's like I feel like I wish that people did what I wanted them to do. It's like. That would be. That would be fun, but. But in the meantime, you can have some fun.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would have a chopper. I'd have a. I don't even know what I would have. I would have an underground tunnel, even that it came right back up next to where it started.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I do have an underground tunnel.

[Theo Von]

Do you really?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, yeah. In this ranch in Kauai. Yeah. Where there's this whole thing where people are like. There's this whole meme about how people are saying, I built this, like, bunker underground. It's. It's like more of underground storage situation, but. Yeah, no, it's. It's.

[Theo Von]

Oh, wow. Zucky. Got that bunky. What's under the ground is more water, right?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's basically what you just said. It's sort of a tunnel that just goes to another building. Yeah, but it's.

[Theo Von]

It's a good place to hide a little bit of dope, though. That's what I would say, dude. Those are the good. That's what I would do anyway.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

But you and I defer there.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. So you don't use. You've never used drugs or.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I mean, I don't know. Dare really worked on me when I was in third grade. It's like. I know there's all this stuff about how it. Like, how it backfired and, like, it just kind of taught people how to use drugs. For me, it, like, really scared me. It was like. I don't know. I don't like any of that stuff. It's like a friend will show up and be like, oh, I was, like, getting an IV to feel better. It's like, I don't even want people to, like, extend their arm and show me their vein. Like, it's like that shit. Like, no, not me.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's true, dude.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, I'm raw dogging. Reality is my God. Yeah. No, it's.

[Theo Von]

There's kind of a. That's kind of insane. Really? These days. It used to be kind of that somebody who was, like, really straight edge and sober, that they. Was. That. That was a nerdy thing, I think. But now I never even thought about it. For now, that's almost the most insane thing you can do. It's like, wait, you're under the influence of nothing.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Nothing, Nothing.

[Theo Von]

From sun up to sundown. You're a animal. You know, it's kind of crazy that. It's that. That things have gone. That's. That.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

That.

[Theo Von]

That the perspective. Perspective of that has kind of changed. How big is that tunnel. Is your tunnel pretty big or what's it like?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's not that big of a tunnel. I made a. I put a reel on Instagram one day of, of Priscilla kind of making fun of me playing video games with some friends down there. But it's. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's. It's all good.

[Theo Von]

Yes, definitely. But this is a crazy area. I haven't spent a lot of time.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

You know how the Internet is. The Internet will always make things seem like they're crazier than they are. But you know what's an under? I mean in Hawaii it's like having a. Having a little storm shelter, underground tunnels.

[Theo Von]

That's the thing right there.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, I don't think so.

[Theo Von]

That's someone saying, is that Roblox? Who built it?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Closer to Roblox than. Than. Than what? Than what?

[Theo Von]

The thing is, dude, the future is. Things are definitely getting weird with cars is. Dude, I saw four Waymos meeting up behind the IKEA over here.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Having a meeting, huh?

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Deciding what they're going to do next. It just like what's your next move?

[Theo Von]

Kind of. It's like, where are you going? Who you?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I think you've seen Hot Tub Time Machine.

[Theo Von]

I haven't seen it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

You. You would like that.

[Theo Von]

Really?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

That's good. Yeah, that there's, there's the self driving car that's like hunting down the guy who is mean to it. And it, it's, it's. It's good.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's what it's. Yeah, that's what it seemed like. Dude, there was four. I don't know if they were smoking a blunt or whatever, but there was four way mo's all meeting. Yeah, I don't know. They were meeting up. I'm like, what? Who were they? What are they doing? You know? And then my buddy said he was in one and it was crying to him because it like the Waymo was crying. Yeah, the rain was like complaining about his spouse or whatever.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And it was like what form does that take? I don't know, like speaking English or is it like R2D2?

[Theo Von]

No, I think he had set it on a British setting. So it was like, oh, me Mrs. Is really getting at me. No, so I think because you can change the voice to like Indian guy or British guy or whatever or like. Or female or semi female or whatever.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Female.

[Theo Von]

But like. Yeah, I just think it like, yeah, just some of that Waymo stuff's just getting out of line. I never thought like, oh, what are These cars doing until I saw four of them meeting up, and I was like, this seems like a lot to me. You know, that's where the future starts to get a little bit scary, is moments like that where you're like, well, what are they doing?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

What were they doing? Probably just waiting to pick people up.

[Theo Von]

But they'd have to do it in a group behind an ikea.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. I don't know. That does seem like an unlikely place to pick people up.

[Theo Von]

That's true. And, well, it just seems.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I'm not going to defend them.

[Theo Von]

Okay. Okay. Okay. It just seemed like an interesting place to meet up, you know? Um. Yeah, and then I. I was in. I was in one Waymo, and it was like, you want to gamble? And what. I think it was, like, sponsored by DraftKings or something. And it was like, you want to gamble with me in the Waymo. Yeah. I was like, it's like, I bet you $40 you'll never get where you're going. And it was like, this is.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

This seems as the doors lock. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's like, picks up speed.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And why are all the Waymos white, too? I'm like, this is. I don't know. I just think we got to start to diversify the portfolio. I feel like a little, you know. Yeah, but what do I know you? So let me switch topics. Sorry. I sometimes get a little bit nervous. That all right?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I mean, there's no way that you're less nervous than me.

[Theo Von]

Let me think about how you said that.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, let me think about that, too. Did I. More nervous. More nervous. Yeah. See, I didn't even say it correctly.

[Theo Von]

Really? Oh. But I think that's a trap. I think that I am. I think I'm more nervous than you.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

You think?

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Man. I wake up, I am an alarm clock. That's how I feel all the time. I feel like.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

What does that mean?

[Theo Von]

I just feel like I'm always, you know.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Why?

[Theo Von]

You know, I don't know. I just think I've always felt like that I've always felt, like, kind of frenetic, you know, it's like, how do I get things to calm down more than. How do I get things to amp up? You know, Like, I'll even wear earplugs a lot of the day now. And it makes things a lot easier for me to kind of navigate.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Interesting.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. It just makes everything easier to focus on. It makes it easier if I'm doing sauna, steam bath, ice bath, working out, any of those things. It makes it every earbuds in the I'll wear earplugs.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Okay, I see.

[Theo Von]

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[Mark Zuckerberg]

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[Theo Von]

Limited time offer see [e-mail] promos hi everyone. So I've been telling you guys about Moonpay for a while now, right? And honestly, I'm not going to stop because it's just that good. You've heard me talk about the moonpay app and for good reason. It's incredibly user friendly for buying and selling crypto. But today I want to share more about what makes Moonpay so cool. Moonpay powers the entire world of crypto. Some people say they are the PayPal of crypto. Because just like you could use PayPal to buy anything on the Internet, now you can use moonpay to buy anything in crypto. And while we're on the subject of cool moonpay partners, you've definitely got to check out Uniswap. It's your go to Decentralized Exchange where swapping tokens is as easy as PI. And guess what? You can use moonpay to buy more crypto for your swaps. Whether you're a newbie or a Seasoned Pro Uniswap lets you trade directly from your wallet, keeping things smooth and simple. Remember, while Moonpay makes buying Crypto straightforward, it's essential to do your own research and understand the risks involved. Crypto trading can be volatile and you could lose your investment. Moonpay is a tool to facilitate your transactions, not a source of financial advice. Trade responsibly. You dropped out of college, right?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And Alexander Wang. He came on one time and we were talking about him earlier, but he had dropped out of college also. Do you think people need college still or. Cause it's just you have these creative guys who are having success and they didn't go through college. Do you feel like people still need college? What do you feel like that looks like for now, in the future?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't know. Well, I mean college, there's a question of how much of it is about the learning and how much of it is about the kind of like learning how to be a grown up before you kind of go out into the world. I mean for me it's like the classes were fine. I mean that was a fun sort of entertaining part of college. But I mean I met a lot of people who are really important in my life. Right. It's like, I mean, Priscilla, my co founders at, at the company, a bunch of people who are still friends, close friends to, to this day. So I think that's almost more of it than, than like whatever class you took. Right.

[Theo Von]

But yeah, yeah, that's just that social is learning to be around others, learning to not be at your parents.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, and I went to boarding school for two years and then before I went to college for two years. So I feel like even though I dropped out of college, I kind of got a full experience in a way on that. But it was good. I feel like you just like, you know, you need some time kind of away from home a bit before you like fully go out. But so I don't know, I think that'll be a thing. But I do think like a lot of people, I'm not sure that college is preparing people for like the jobs that they need to have today. I mean, I think that that's like there's a big issue on that and like all the student debt are like really big issues. I mean the fact that college is just so expensive for so many people and then like you graduate and you're.

[Theo Von]

In debt, well, you're not even guaranteed a job either. You would think at a certain rate you're paying you'd be guaranteed some sort of beginner employment.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, I think that's. That's probably the big. The biggest issue with it is it would be one thing if it were just kind of like a social experience, but you started off neutral. The fact if it's not preparing you for the jobs that you need and you're kind of starting off in this big hole, then I think that's, that's not good. I mean, that, that I think there's going to have to be a reckoning with and.

[Theo Von]

Good point.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

People are going to have to. To kind of figure out whether that makes sense. But I don't know, people. It's sort of been this taboo thing to say of, like. Like, maybe not everyone needs to go to college and. Because there's like a lot of jobs that don't require that and. Yeah, but I think people are probably coming around to that opinion a little more now than, than. Than maybe like 10 years ago. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Do you think. I was just talking earlier with Colin. I think one of your assistants, one of your co workers. Sorry, I didn't say assistants, but. And we're kind of saying that. Yeah. Like, what classes do you think, like kids should be learning now? Because, like, with AI coming along and with technology starting to like, really multiply itself pretty quickly, like our ability to advance is going to only grow faster, it seems like. Would you feel like that's true overall statement?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, I think it's accelerating. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Accelerating, yeah. That's the word I'm looking for. Sorry.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So with that happening, what are like, I feel like they should be teaching how to like, kind of use AI to children right now in elementary and middle schools. Does that. That sounds very real to me. Do you feel like that that's like not, not how to code or anything, but it's how to do it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So I mean, it's interesting because the technology changes a lot, right. It's obviously it's a lot different now than it was 20 years ago when I got started with the company or when I started coding when I was a kid. So it's not like the specific things I learned to code when I was 15 are the skills I'm using today. But you. I don't know. I think there is something about kind of understanding the technology and understanding how to use it and getting on that train that I think is valuable. But the other thing is I just think like having good mentors or teachers, no matter what the actual classes, like when I was in boarding school, I really liked studying Latin and Greek. And that's, like, not useful for any practical thing, but. But it's fun and, like.

[Theo Von]

It's fun.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's fun. It's fun.

[Theo Von]

I think there are parts of it that are fun, for sure.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And the tests that. That I had to take were. You know, it's. They would. You know, you'd be reading these kind of great works, and the test would be. They'd pull out any word in, like, whatever the, you know, third of a book was that was kind of that. That kind of section of the class, and they'd, like, show you a sentence, and they'd say, okay, this word, like, give us the full kind of grammatical and, like, poetic significance of kind of how this word is used by this author in this piece. So. Okay, I'm not, like, I'm not that good at language. So the way that I did that class was I basically just sat and studied word by word, the historical significance of each word over, like, tens of pages, preparing for these exams. And. Okay, I don't remember that much of that at this point. Right. I mean, there are a few quotes that I think are pretty good from some of those books, and I put them on shirts, but have you.

[Theo Von]

Plurum. Have you heard that one?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, that's a good one.

[Theo Von]

What does that one mean? Let's. Or whatever from.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

From many. 1. I think it's talking about how we come together as. As a. As a people or as states into one union. Oh, that's union. But no, I.

[Theo Von]

But so you did it word by word, but it still helped you.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

But I. I just think, like, the lesson from that is, you know, it kind of gave me this confidence that it's like, okay, that was like, a crazy thing to do to have to, like, go learn what every word's significance, like, poetic significance and grammatical structure and all that is. And after I took that class, I was basically like, I can work hard enough to do anything that I want. Right? Because, like, I just, like, fucking learned all these words that don't matter in order to, like, nail this thing. And, like. And I won and. And kind of did that and. And got that to. To kind of. And kind of, you know, had some fun doing it. So.

[Theo Von]

Right. It's like you, like, you found a. A model kind of.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, exactly.

[Theo Von]

And it was hard. It was a. Yeah, it was a tough model. Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So, I mean, there's like. There's that and there's like, the math version of that. I mean, you're talking about Alexander Wang on here, it's like, I mean, I did a bunch of the same kind of math competitions that that he did. I had this like super hardcore math instructor in high school. His name was Zooming Fung. And he.

[Theo Von]

Chinese guy.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Oh yeah. And I think at some point he, he had worked with Zooming Fung. Bring him Fung. Now he is.

[Theo Von]

We want the Fung. You ever hear that song they would used to play that.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Well, this guy is just like a badass. And he, he basically was involved in training the, the US Math Olympiad team for a long period of time. And he made a huge impact on me kind of growing up. And he kind of taught me a little bit about how I approach problems. He's like, look, you actually, he's like, you kind of have this. It's like, look, you're not that good at math. I'm like, no, but I'm kidding. He kind of taught me that I had this sort of like intuitive ability to have a sense of like, what zone the right answer was in. So he's like, I look at your work and you do a bunch of stuff that like, doesn't really make sense. But then at the end you come to a conclusion and you realize that that conclusion doesn't make sense. And then you kind of check yourself and go back and do it and you keep on doing it until you get the right answer is like, I don't understand how you like have this intuitive sense for like what the shape of the right answer is. But like, that's really good. As long as you like couple that with working really hard, you're going to be able to kind of succeed and get a lot, and get a lot done.

[Theo Von]

But so that gives you a map of how to navigate yourself, like your intuition with your hard work.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, so. So I don't know. So, okay, like, does the specific, like, you know, high dimensional geometry or whatever the thing is that we were working on together, like, do I do any of that today? No, I don't remember any of that stuff, but like, but I think it's like, like you have some good teachers who teach you how to think and how to work hard and like that stays with you forever. And I think that that's like some of the stuff that, I mean, I think it builds confidence. It like teaches you how you approach problems. Then you just get better and better at some things and you build confidence.

[Theo Von]

And so that's the value you're saying and seeing in college, like those are some of the other values you might not see. Like oh, yeah. Might be. Not be able to be seen on paper. But the. But the value of that. Yeah, that's a good point, man. It's like. Yeah, I remember, like, some of my favorite people still to this day in my life have been some of my teachers that challenged me or that believed in me or that said a certain, like, man, I admire the way you do this or this, you know, and. And it really encourages you. And once kind of plants a lot of seeds to make you want to do those things so much more.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. And they don't have to be teachers, although, obviously, you know, that's mentors.

[Theo Von]

I think a lot of. A lot of these days, a lot of people get their mentorship probably, I would guess, from teach, unless they play a sport, you know?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the main way that you learn those from colleagues. Right. It's like people you work with, you know? And I remember, you know, growing up, I was like, I was really into computers.

[Theo Von]

And like, when you get your first computer, you think.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So my family had a computer probably when I was like, 8 or 9, and then I think I probably got one.

[Theo Von]

And would you be in there on that thing all the time, just riding the keys?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So my dad's a dentist, and.

[Theo Von]

And like, he's like, he just got a tooth yesterday.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. How's that? How's that?

[Theo Von]

I just got a half of a.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Got to see Dr. Zuckerberg.

[Theo Von]

Really?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yes. He'll. He'll take care of you.

[Theo Von]

Did your parents give you love or just sonic care? That's just an old dentist joke.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Glad you got that taken care of.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I feel a lot better about it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But what were we talking about?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Oh, I was just talking about how my dad was the type of dentist who, like, was really into technology. Right. So whenever, like, a new laser thing came out to, like, drill your teeth better, like, he was on that first. Right. And. And. And that was kind of cool to. To be around. Right. It's. And. And kind of see, like, he. He clearly, he loved technology, and I think I sort of got introduced to a bunch of stuff through that. So, like, he had, like, in his dental office, there were, like, a bunch of different, you know, opera operatory rooms, I guess, and. And they each had computers. And I was like, all right.

[Theo Von]

You know, like, oh, yeah, future in there.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, it's like you. It's like. But it was still, you know, he'd still, like, go between them to talk to the different people. I was like, you need, like, a chat app. So you can just like, send messages to everyone across the. The dental office. So I, like, wrote that for him, and it's like, all right, that's cool.

[Theo Von]

So you were code. So you drop. You were putting coding in a. Like, dental work. You were. You're already thinking of how to connect.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Just, like, making stuff. Yeah. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's sort of been the theme for me, is the intersection between, like, computing technology on the one hand, and, like, people and connecting people. You know, when I was in college, I wasn't there for long, but, I mean, I was technically a psychology major. I mean, I took a bunch of computer science and math classes, too, but.

[Theo Von]

Dude, if somebody even went to Harvard for four days, dude, I would hire him to be my therapist or whatever.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I wouldn't really. I mean, I don't know. I think I'd rather have someone who I. I definitely subscribe to the theory of, like, you want people who did well at whatever they did, not just, like, who have some random credential. So.

[Theo Von]

Oh.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So, yeah, I guess. But where I'm from, if you heard Harvard, it was like somebody had gone to, like, Mars or something. It was very, you know.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, No, I get it.

[Theo Von]

So. But I think so. It kind of differs from place to place. Whenever you drop, whenever you did, you have to tell your parents who were dropping out of college. Was that a craz? Did you DM them or what'd you do?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So, I mean, I'd already started Facebook, and Harvard had this nice policy where you. You didn't have to make a hard decision to drop out. You could just postpone. So I just didn't go back for the next term. But later my mom told me that she always knew I wasn't gonna finish college. I was like, mom, what the hell does that mean? But. No, but actually.

[Theo Von]

But that's gotta be the worst. Imagine this, okay? Say your son or child or daughter are mixed or mixed child or whatever. Imagine it's a big test at school, right? You have to hug your kid goodbye. You know, your kid is not gonna do good on that test, right? But you still have to stand there in the kitchen and give him a little bit of chocolate milk and be like, you're gonna do good out there today, Benny, or whatever his name is, right? But then the second he leaves, you're just like, that kid doesn't have a parent.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

You know, Benny's screwed. Yeah, Benny's screwed. No, I don't know. I don't know. I know what it's like no, but my younger sister.

[Theo Von]

Is our conversation going okay? I feel like it's cool. You.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, this is. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's less random than I expected it to be, you know?

[Theo Von]

It is.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I'm just kidding.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I think it's just hard to talk sometimes to people.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, Before I went to college, my. No, my mom, I think, told me that she thought I was going to drop out. My younger sister bet me that she was going to finish college before me.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I like that attitude.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And. And I was like, no, I'm going to get a degree. And they all came true. I dropped out. My younger sister finished college, and then I got an honorary degree. So, you know, bonus.

[Theo Von]

Oh, you got a free. They gave you that?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I know. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, dang. Did you even get your GED at all, either?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, I did finish. I did finish high school. You did ged's high school, right? Is that.

[Theo Von]

I don't know. I think they make a GED premiere now.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't know. I don't know anyone. No. No.

[Theo Von]

Geez.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

High school equivalent. All right. Thank you. I got a real. I got a. I got a high school diploma.

[Theo Von]

You got a high school diploma?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

That's my. That's my education, dude.

[Theo Von]

That's 94% of our country. So you're in good hands, brother. You're right there with some of the greats. So when you started. When you first started. Let me think if I want to think. Oh, where was your first date that you took Priscilla to? Do you remember?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, for Priscilla. That was. We went to this place, Burdicks. It was Burdick. Burdick's. La Burdicks. This, like, chocolate place. Hot chocolate. But that was. That was pretty good.

[Theo Von]

And was it just like y'all went and sat down or you. Is it like a restaurant or just a place to get.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, it's like a little coffee place. Little, like, hot chocolate type coffee place. It's. Yeah. No, it's nice.

[Theo Von]

They.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

They make good chocolates. They make these little mice things.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Chocolate mice. So now every year on our anniversary, we get some mice.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Good deal.

[Theo Von]

Hell, yeah. Nothing like a couple of tech emperors are enjoying a couple of mice. You feel me? I think that's very normal. That's very normal to me. Dude. Sorry. That just made me laugh. Dude. I'm sorry, Mark. That just made me freaking laugh.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's just crazy to think, well, chocolate mice.

[Theo Von]

Yes, chocolate mice. Yeah, yeah, and that. Yeah. And we'll put that in the notes in the Notes.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. No, it's not. I feel like when you go, like, full Roman Empire, it's like, give me the live mice.

[Theo Von]

Give me the live mice. And then one mouse shows up and he has, like, a bad leg. You're like, all of them fully live. Dude, if somebody sees a mouse with a bad leg, nobody even cares. That's the saddest thing about some mice. But actually, I used to sell hamsters. My first job was selling hamsters growing up. And a lot of that market, they brought in these Russian hamsters, right? And it took away a lot of the American market. And the Russian ones, they're called, like, the Roborovskis. Bring up a couple of Roborofskis, man. They were. They. They. They took away, like, the fluffy kind of American hamp. And they.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I mean, they're pretty cute.

[Theo Von]

They are cute. But the ones that we were getting, a lot of them were from Russia. Put. From Russia. Put. Roborovsky hamsters from Russia. Where the small white ones with kind of the red eyes. Yeah, they really. I think they. They put some visual effects on some of their eyes. There you go. These were really not helping people feel good.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, that's like. That's like a vampire.

[Theo Von]

It was a little bit much. It was a lot for some of.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

The children, you know, so one of my daughters is really into hedgehogs. So we. We found. We were in, like. We took them to Japan, and there's this hedgehog cafe that you can just go in and they can just like, play with the hedgehogs.

[Theo Von]

I've never seen a hedgehog.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, it's. It's. They're pretty cute. It kind of looks like that, but less red eyes, but. Yeah, no.

[Theo Von]

Shorty Bay. Yeah, she's out there. Those are beautiful.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Now, those. The. The idea of cafes where you can hang out with animals. Priscilla's telling me that she took the kids to this cat cafe. And, like, it's like, my daughter was, like, hanging out with the cats, and it was like, couldn't find a cat that she liked. And then, like, finally found a cat that she was into. And then, like, f. Just as she was sitting down, like, hanging out with the cat, someone came in and was like, oh, this cat has been adopted and took. Gave. And it's.

[Theo Von]

Oh, just like that issue that's going on with that guy that deported to El Salvador right now. It sounds like very. I don't know if it's similar to that, but it sounds like there's, like.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

A lot that seems completely different. Absolutely. A Completely different thing. You're right, that's.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, you're right. It's not the same fairy tale. I don't know how either one of those fairy tale ends, but that's so sad.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

At least got a home.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, the cat got a home. And this. I think that guy will get home. I don't know a lot about it. It's just like spawning me on that. That could be something like that. Do you, you have how many dogs? You have a.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Three daughters.

[Theo Von]

Three daughters, yeah. You had three sisters.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I did, yeah. So you're kind of surrounded by girls. God, yeah.

[Theo Von]

And did you, what's it like? Like bedtime with your daughters at night? Like what is that like at the Zuckerberg's home?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I mean it's just, it's like. So, because I'm so busy during the day, I try to make it so that like the time that I know I'm gonna hang out with the kids at night, I try to spend like half an hour with each of them at night. And they're different ages. So we got like a nine, a seven year old, a two year old. Yeah. So bedtime. I don't know. I mean, the kids are all crazy in different ways and we just kind of like try to connect with them on whatever they want.

[Theo Von]

Like what do they like to earn if it's not.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Your old is like. The two year old is just like starting to learn how to speak and.

[Theo Von]

Probably how to code, which would have been great.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. No, well, well she's like, yeah. Now the two year old has very strong opinions and I think it's going to be very interesting. Really? Yeah, yeah. But it's like, let me, let me think about what? I mean, she's, I don't know, I need to, let me think about something funny that she's doing. But while I'm thinking about that, the seven year old is just like purely generative, constantly just creating things. She's the one who's like, we'll do 3D printing. She'll create 3D worlds in this horizon metaverse system that we're building. She codes, she writes books, she. She basically like makes music.

[Theo Von]

She is seven years old.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

She's seven. Yeah. Seeing her has really like, I think helped me understand myself in a way because it's like, it's kind of like, okay, like, why do I just keep like building stuff? Like why do I care so much about creating stuff? And it's like, I don't know, I think some people just like have a thing in Them where it's like they have to create stuff. Like the stuff just like, comes out of them. They're constantly generating things and like, and. And kind of producing stuff. And.

[Theo Von]

And you notice that in her.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

She's like that. Yeah, yeah, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think before. Before kind of she started growing up and doing that Priscilla was in was just like, why don't you just, like, relax, right? It's like, you've done. You've built enough things, right? It's like, your company is good. Like, you can just chill then. And now. Now I think after seeing this one, she's just like, okay, no, I get it. Yeah, yeah, you got. You have the same thing. You have what she has, right? It's like you're just constantly creating stuff.

[Theo Von]

He's like, dude, yeah, you're Thomas Medicine.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

There you go. There you go. I like that. Yeah, no, it's. Yeah, thank you, dude.

[Theo Von]

And then.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, our oldest daughter is just like. Is.

[Theo Von]

The oldest one is nine, you said?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, she's nine.

[Theo Von]

And okay, so that's getting up there a little bit in kids 8.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So she's getting into, like, the zone where she's like, she competes. She's doing, like, history BE and like, competing in math and. And really wants to, like, understand the world. So. So my, My activities with her is like, we'll usually, like, go through the news and I'll find. She'll find, like, one thing. We'll pick out a story and then we'll just, like, talk about it. And it's. It's really interesting because, like, it hadn't occurred to me before how much in order to understand, like, technology, you need to really understand, like, government and civics and politics and law and, like, all of these different things. So trying to explain to, like, a child who hasn't thought much about these things is. It's both very fascinating for, for me, but it's just been like, a cool bonding experience of, like, ever. And you. You start off and it's like a really basic understanding, but then after you've done it for like a year or two, like, okay, she has, like, a very good understanding of, like, the tech industry and the world and all this stuff, and it's. It's. It's pretty interesting to talk through.

[Theo Von]

Well, I think it's inspiring just to even parents to hear, like, what can you talk to your kid about? You know what I'm saying? Like, if your kid's 13 and you're still reading in Barons, Saint Bears, whatever, some of that's on you. Like, you got to evolve some of the curriculum for your child, you know, because. Yeah, a lot of parents think you probably can't kind of build these worlds in a child's head, but if you start with the basic blocks, then you kind of can, you know, and help them get bigger ideas about things. I think that's cool. I think there's nothing more important than how a parent communicates with their child, you know, and what they communicate to them. Because so often we just expect, like, teachers and different curriculum out in the world or just the world to do that for our children. But, man, I think the. The biggest faucet for a child is the. Is the parent, you know, that's pretty cool. And the little one is just a little. She's two.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

We got. We got a. We got a bonus. Yeah. So it's. No, she's. She's good, but I mean, obviously very. She's just obsessed with her older sisters. Like, so one day she just decided, like, I am not a baby. And we're like, oh, you're the family baby. She. I'm. I'm a big girl. It's like, that's like a core part of her identity is she's a big girl.

[Theo Von]

She's like, you email me now.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. No, it's like, yeah, email me now.

[Theo Von]

Email me at sucker, baby. At meta.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Meanwhile, she can't even, like, like, fully pronounce it. She goes, I'm a bit girl. It's like, okay. It's like, well, maybe learn how to pronounce it first and then I'll believe you. But. But no, she's like, I weigh six.

[Theo Von]

Terabytes, you know, like, calm down, you know?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

No, she's so funny being like a. Like a.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And the stuff that we do, it's like.

[Theo Von]

I mean, it's two.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

You're trying to, like, teach them, like, basic stuff. So it's like we have this book. It's like, how do I feel? Right? It's just, like, pictures of other kids and, like, their facial expressions, and it's like the only emotion that she identifies with is happy. And so she'll be having, like, a terrible meltdown and, like, sobbing, and I'm like, oreo, how. How are you feeling? She goes, happy. It's like, no, you don't have to. You don't have to say happy all the time. It's like. Like, it's normal. Like, in life, it's like we have all these different emotions. Like, you. Like, it's important to understand when you're sad or. Or, like angry or frustrated or something. But.

[Theo Von]

But that's hilarious.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So we're still working on that. We're working on. We're. We're still on the remedial emotional emotions phase.

[Theo Von]

She'll be like, crying, like, how do you. But she knows. That's the world. She's like, she knows.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. No, it's like Oreo's her name, Aurelia, but we call her Oreo, which I'm sure we're going to regret when. When. When she's older. Well, it's cute.

[Theo Von]

I think Oreo probably marry a basketball player, I'm guessing. Who knows, Mark? Who knows what'll happen? And it could go, you know, Oreo Zuckerberg, dude, that's when you take. That's when you, like, that's when you get into the food industry.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Rio Zuckerberg.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I know. She's. She. She, I think could be Sugar Empress. Well, see, Menlo park kids love, like, you know, kids love, like, they go through a phase where they love cleaning and they love, like, playing cooking. Right. It's like, oh, just give me some, like. Like a pan. Or like, I don't know if that's.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I think a lot of kids are like that. Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

She's just like, give me a desk. Like, I want, like, I want to work. Like, dad does. Like, give me a desk and like, like, I don't want to do this, like, cooking. Like, yeah, it's like, yeah, we want.

[Theo Von]

To own a Popeyes. And she's like, but at least she has.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

That's.

[Theo Von]

But I like that, though. She has like a. You know.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, she's. She's a bit girl.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I love that idea that some child somewhere. This is going to make my day so much better. Just knowing that a child.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

There's a child behind a desk, just, like, demanding. It's like, like, yeah.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. There's not enough bandwidth in this crib.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Not enough bandwidth to the crib. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

To pull off what I need to pull off.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Hello, the kids. You know, I don't.

[Theo Von]

Is it fun being a dad? Do you feel like you enjoy it? Does it feel kind of. Is it tough to connect with your children? Does that ever feel like a thing as a dad with girl daughters? With or with. Yeah, I don't know.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I think it's like, there's probably some things that they connect better with. With mother about, but, like. But I feel like there's also, like. I don't know, there's all these weird dynamics. I know there's Some things that they, like, probably just connect with me better about where it's. You know, it's just a different dynamic with. With. With father. Right. So.

[Theo Von]

And what do they call you? Do they call you all dad, Father, Mother, dad?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Although sometimes they're. If they're being disobedient, Mark, it's like, no, dad is a. Dad is a title. A title, an honorific title that I've earned, Mark.

[Theo Von]

Like, it's like, what's going on?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's like, oreo, that is. Get back in your crib.

[Theo Von]

I'll see you in court. Yeah, these diapers are too tight. Tell my lawyer. That's hilarious. That's.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't know. I think, like, it's just good for them to have good role models. Right. You know, part of the way that I. I feel like when kids grow up, they either end up wanting to, like, marry people who are the opposite of their parents if it was a bad experience, or people who they, like, think of as sort of like, oh, this was a good role model. Right? And so I feel like as long as they look up to us, that's like. That's kind of the. The. That's. That's. You want to, like, set a good example, right? So. But no, I. I kind of. For me, we talked about this a little bit with. With the fighting stuff early on, but for me, it's always just been important that it's like, I don't just want to, like, be a person who, like, sits and works all the time. I think, like, you know, it's. We're not, like, meant to just sit at a desk all day long, and one day Oreo will learn that. But, you know, I think, like, a lot of life is, like, you move around. You, like, you know, it's like, we're, like, meant to be active and do stuff, and I think that that's a big part of it. I try to, like. It's important to me that the kids get that, too, and the kids are very active.

[Theo Von]

Do your kids have a lot of, like, screen time? Like, how much screen time do you allow your kids?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, it's different for the different ones. We don't just, like, let them do whatever, but I actually, like, want them to be fluent with this stuff. And, like, kind of like we talked about earlier, you know, I want them to learn how to code, how to use technology. I think it's important because a lot of socialization, you know, obviously, like, happens online at this point. Like, people need to get used to the norms and stuff around that. So I mean, they're not on, they're still too young to be using like social media, but, but they have messenger kids. You know, we, we make it so that they can video chat and, and chat with their friends. And you know, we'll, we'll obviously monitor to make sure that they're, that they're just connecting with the people who, who we think that they should. But like, I think it's actually good. I think people need to kind of grow up. I don't need to is strong, but I think it's good if you have an engaged parent and as a child you learn up, you kind of grow up learning how to use a bunch of this stuff. So I think that's all good. I want the kids, to the extent that they're interested in it, to learn how to code, learn how to create stuff, whether it's in Horizon or VR tools or they play, you know, Roblox and Minecraft and stuff like that. I think that's good. And then, you know, there's a lot of educational study type tools that, you know, when our daughter's studying for her competitions or whatever, she can, she can kind of make a lot of progress on that. So I think that that stuff is good, but we're not just like letting them just kind of sit and watch stuff all day long.

[Theo Von]

So you think unless you're on a.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Plane, then you do whatever you need to do to get through that flight.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Thank you, dude. Somebody else needs to say that.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Where's the. I want to. When do we come out with that pacifier that really shuts these kids down for a couple hours. I'm not saying that's anything crazy, nothing illegal, but we need, we need a high voltage pacifier back in society. Mark Hurt.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Oh, man.

[Theo Von]

Give us something, brother.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

These kids are screaming.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

They, they sometimes do.

[Theo Von]

The craziest thing happened to me one time. I'm on a plane. I'm dreaming, right? And I'm like, man, I'm really having some nice dreams because I never have good sleep or anything. So every now and then I come to the surface of my dreams and I'm like, wow, I'm still dreaming. And I go back underwater. But I heard a ukulele playing, right? Ukulele. And at some point I wake up and there is a effing child, or child as some people call them, playing a ukulele with his parents on this plane. I walked up and I put my hand on it in front of the parents. I think I Was still groggy from being asleep. And I was like, we can't do this today.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's like the ukulele is.

[Theo Von]

It's a lot.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's time out for ukulele.

[Theo Von]

We're shutting down this little hand Hawaii you got going on right here.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I mean, it probably took a lot of restraint to not just pick up the ukulele and smash it.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, it really did.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. I mean, it's.

[Theo Von]

It really did. So I just said, we're not doing this today in a tone that was.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

That seems. Seems stern for a child, but it was. Yeah. Especially for a child who you. Is not your child who you don't know. I. Very fair type of thing that you could cause a scene.

[Theo Von]

Very fair. But I got lucky. The parents were.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

They agreed. They were probably pissed about the ukulele to.

[Theo Von]

They're like afraid to tell their kids something.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. It's like, so you did them a favor.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. It's like, hey, Oreo, sometimes business is closed.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

It's like working hours are over for today. Okay. Well, you'll be back in the office tomorrow. Like, sometimes you just have to, you know, but. So I agree. Please do whatever you can to stop these kids from being on planes or screaming on planes. Means because we are looking. That's one thing we are all looking to you for.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Well, maybe one day we'll deliver that.

[Theo Von]

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[Mark Zuckerberg]

A future version of the glasses will get there. I think you had a chance to play around with this a bit.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Are those the ones you have on.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Right now or no, no, this is so I mean these are the ones that are available today. These are like Our AI glasses. So, I mean, it's, you know, the. They're glasses. They can. You know, the main thing is they can. You can take photos or videos with them. I love just using them for listening to music and taking phone calls on them. Because your ears are open, right. So it doesn't like. It doesn't obscure your ability to hear anything else. The audio quality is really good, Right. Because it has a microphone. Like, it's a contact mic that's like basically in the nose pad. So when I'm. Yeah, so when I'm like, you could be on a plane and take a phone call and like, the other person on the other side can't even hear that you're on a plane. Like, it's just like the. You can be in a wind tunnel and it's just like, whatever. It's. The sound quality is amazing. But then the main thing is they're AI glasses. So you can. Glasses, I think, are like the perfect form factor for a device where if you want to have an AI that you let see what you see, hear what you hear, it can talk to you. You can talk to it throughout the day. And glasses is. That's like, you know. Yeah. If you want to have something that has the same context to the world that you do, that's. It's going to be glasses. And there's like a billion or 2 billion people in the world who wear glasses already. So to me, the, you know, the chance that we look back like a decade from now and, like, all those glasses aren't AI glasses by that period, it's kind of like, obviously all the flip phones were going to become smartphones. Right. I mean, that was clearly a thing that was going to happen. I think that's going to happen with glasses, too. But the other piece of this is that you're going to get the ability to kind of put holograms in the world. Right. So our experience with technology today is. I know, it's kind of funny in a way, how it's divided where it's like you. You know, we have the physical world all around us, and then if you want to interact with something digital, you need to, like, put a screen up, right? So maybe it's like this, you know, you have your. Your small glowing rectangle, your phone with you. You know, you have like, you know, your screen if you want to, like, project something.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, your computer.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

But I think in the not too distant future, this should be blended together. Right. You'll have, like, the physical world, but all this digital stuff. Should just basically be holograms. You shouldn't need, like, a physical screen. Like, there's no reason why in the future, you know, you want to have a screen there. You'll just have glasses, and that screen will be a hologram.

[Theo Von]

Right. And that's what you see it. That's what you put me in.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Somebody put me in a damn.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, yeah. That's.

[Theo Von]

Final season of Stranger Things back there. I got put in. Whatever they put on me. It was like LensCrafters. Makes LensCrafters look pretty, you know, lame.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Well, it's.

[Theo Von]

It's different. It's. It was. Well, it was crazy. I'll say. It was like. Can I say what happened? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. So they put it. You put the glasses on, and they're. They're. It's like an advancement of the pair that you have on now. Right. So it's like years down the line. How many years down the line do you realistically think that those could.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I'm hoping that we'll have a version of that as a product in a.

[Theo Von]

Few years, but it's going four years or eight years.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Hopefully closer to four or even less. But. But it's. I think that there will still be simpler glasses like this, and then there will be more complex glasses. Those will be more expensive.

[Theo Von]

There's more, right? What do you want? Kind of.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. But. So some people want, like, more tech. They'll want the holograms. Some people just want a simple experience where it's like, all right, I got the AI I got the ability to listen to music and phone calls and do all that. And then, obviously, the less tech that you put into them, the thinner they can be, which, I mean, some people like bulky glasses. Some people want thin glasses. And.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it was fascinating.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

They had a thing on my wrist. Right.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Neural interface.

[Theo Von]

A neural interface?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. I mean, you could basically control the glasses with your mind through signals that you're sending from your brain to your hand.

[Theo Von]

Yes, it was fascinating. It was like I could, like, touch different nodules that I needed to and stuff, or different nodes, whatever it's called. I could look at certain things, and that would highlight what it was. And it was like a sc. It was just a screen in midair, and I could walk around the side of the room and then come back, and the screen would still be there, but it wasn't really there in real life. It was just there with the glasses on.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. It's a hologram.

[Theo Von]

Yes. And it was. It was crazy, man. I don't know. And then I was like, well, my first thought was like, well, how do you just get people to adapt to this? Because people aren't just gonna go from where we are right now to adapt. And then I realized, okay, there's different stair steps. There's like almost like when you got the first smartphone, like you're saying, and then in advance, or the first mobile phone, and then you have the first meta glasses, and then it advances and stuff like that. So it was fascinating. There was a part where me and another man who I just met him, and we played ping pong. And I believe it was an Asian guy. And I don't know if they did that on purpose or not. And I don't know if ping pong is Asian, but it's. People think it is. And I started playing with this man back there, you know, and the people. Huh?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Did you win, dude?

[Theo Von]

Who knows where in the future? I don't know if they keep score. I think everybody gets a medal.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, you definitely keep score.

[Theo Von]

Oh, you do?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. Yeah. And then in our future, not everyone gets a medal.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I like. Are you not.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, it's like. Yeah, no, that's. That's more. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oreo, fire up the grill.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Loser burns. But. No, the but we could play a game of. And it was a. Not real. It was a pingpong table in front of us. That was not real.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

There's like 3D ping pong.

[Theo Von]

So it wasn't that. It wasn't there.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Uhhuh.

[Theo Von]

Someone could ride their bike through. Like your dumb brother could ride his freaking bike. Like, dang it.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Ricky, bro, you frickin rode right through our net.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So, I mean, I think it's an interesting thought experiment. How many of the things that we physically have that aren't going to need to be there in the future, right? So pretty much every screen doesn't need to be there, Right? It'll just be a hologram. Any media, any book that you're playing, any board games, that will be nerds. Those are.

[Theo Von]

Be nice. Because one thing I hate is at the airport, all these TVs are on her. It's like everything is so loud now. It's like, like, can you just make it for you?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Just turn it down.

[Theo Von]

Why do we all have to experience this painful noise sometimes?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, it's like you're driving through a city and there's billboards and nothing is personalized. It's like how TV used to be, right? I mean, in the. In the future, you know, now, like, all the stuff that you use on your phone, it's like you get exactly what you're interested in and it's just a much more, much higher quality experience. But there's all this physical stuff that just stuck. Right. And it's static and. Yeah, I mean everything I think is going to be able to. Sorry, not everything, but I think it's an interesting thought experiment. How much of the stuff that we physically have today that just doesn't actually need to exist in the future do you think?

[Theo Von]

Is social media bad?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I mean, I don't think so.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Maybe that's not the right term. Like at a certain point does. Yeah. Like how much, you know, there's been like studies done where it's like doom scrolling and stuff like that can lead to depression, that sort of thing. Like, do you. Yeah. What do you think about that? Like.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, so. So look, I mean we obviously study this stuff pretty carefully.

[Theo Von]

You guys do?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I mean we study it, we work with academics to study it. You know, as you can imagine, there's a lot of like media coverage of this stuff that's like very sensationalist, that tries to like have a skewed point of view.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

My understanding of the current state of the research is that there isn't kind of a conclusive finding that this is negative for people's well being. So I think that that's. And in general, you know, some of the stuff that ends up being positive for people is, is building relationships. So there's sort of the media part of social media and there's the social part of social media. I think the, the interacting with people to the extent that that's helping you build good relationships. I mean friendships and good relationships is one of the things that correlates the most strongly with positive well being and like feeling good about your life and all that. The media stuff, I mean, I think that's more entertaining, you know, I think you can, you know, people want things that are fun, right? Yeah.

[Theo Von]

People want to be entertained for surely.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Like correlate with good well being or bad well being. But I guess like the way that I think about this stuff is that it's our modern online environment. Is it? It's just an environment in which we live in a way that has pros and cons. Like whether you live in a city or a rural place. Right. It's like, okay, like some people may prefer living in a city. There's like things that are good about a city, there are things that are bad about a city. Okay. Like the fact that we went from being primarily offline as a society to now, like this kind of hybrid kind of physical and digital reality. There's some things that are better about that, some things that are. That are maybe less good. It's not that every single thing improves at each step along the way, but I think overall it's. It's kind of the overall effect is significant improvement. And I. I just don't see a way that people would want to, like, go back to not having services where they can get the content that they're interested in and where stuff is personalized to them and where they can communicate with the people who they want and don't need to, like, be constrained in just the people who are physically around them. It's just, I mean, like, we're just, you know, we're not going back to that. And if you look throughout history, it's like when people, like, first built cities, you know, there were all these. There's a lot of kind of nostalgia for the simpler life and things like that. It's like, okay, yeah, and yeah, sure, maybe cities aren't better in every single way, and some people might prefer to kind of only go sometimes or whatever, but I just think it's like we're building more and more capabilities as society. And I think that that's sort of. I just think about this stuff more as like, an environment in which we live.

[Theo Von]

So then it's more like if. Yeah, like sometimes I think, like. Cause I've been thinking a lot about this. I think a lot of people have. It's like, well, we're moving into such a. Like, technology is advancing so much faster. Right. It's accelerating the advancement speed. And then we're just humans and we're in this space now where there's like one generation to the next, where one generation was completely grown up online and one hasn't really.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So I wonder, and I think the older generation probably sees it as like, man, this is so negative. Everybody's stuck. But I wonder if the younger generation, do they even know any different? Right. You know, like, just. I start to wonder what is the value of being human? Like, like, what is the. Does that start to dissipate as we become more technologically advanced or does that alter? Like, do you think about that sometimes?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I mean, look, I think it's going to give people the freedom to focus more on the things that they want. I think if you look at the arc of. Of history. Go back like, I mean, before, you know, in ancient times, life was like, Pretty brutal, right? It's like, okay, so then, then you go to like, maybe right before the Industrial revolution where they had team toilet.

[Theo Von]

Paper at one time they had like group toilet paper and it was like.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, that's, I mean, that's not good. That's not good. Yeah. And I don't think, I mean, I don't. You don't want to. Yeah, no, it's. I think anyone who has nostalgia for the past really is not taking into account the disease and the lack of hygiene that existed in the past. So I think that there's. So anyway, but pre industrial revolution, I think some huge percent of the population was farmers because basically everyone needed to be focused on growing things in order to have enough food. Then we basically got to the point where, okay, now we can start to produce food much more efficiently. So that actually frees up up a lot of people to not have to be farmers. Now maybe like 2% of people can be farmers and 98% of people can do other stuff. So now we, people start doing more kind of other creative stuff and inventing new things and, and at each step along the way. Kind of like being a farmer is a really hard job, right? It's like you're working like a lot of hours and, and, and, and now as, as kind of people got more options, they took other jobs. But then we've also seen this mix where the percent of people's time that has gone towards leisure and entertainment has just steadily increased over time. And I just think that that's going to continue to be the case with technology. We'll have more stuff that will make it so that the basic needs are taken care of, which will free people up to do some combination of more creative jobs and not have to work as hard if they don't want to. But I think some people are going to like working all the time, like me and, and you'll be able to do that too and get more done than you could have ever possibly done in the past. But that'll be sort of a choice and.

[Theo Von]

Well, since you're kind of like a leader in innovation and technology in our world, you know, do you, how do you know that what your convictions are. How do you gauge if what your convictions are are the best for everybody? Kind of like, how do you kind of figure that out? You know, it seems like such a challenge.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Well, does that make sense the question or. No? No.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, I, I think I get what you're asking. I mean, look, at the end of the day, there are still A lot of options of things that people can do. Just because I build something doesn't mean that people are going to use it. Actually, a lot of the things that I build, like, some, some of them work, some of them don't. And like, I think part of the reason why the company has been successful is because, you know, maybe we have a slightly higher hit rate of things working than others, but it's kind of like, I don't know, in baseball, it's like most people don't get on base most of the time. Right. It's so it's, it's like, like running one of these companies, you, you more of the stuff doesn't work than does. And if we do something that doesn't work, then in general people aren't going to use it and then the future doesn't go in that direction. So.

[Theo Von]

I see, so you're saying it's up to the user more.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I mean, look, I, I kind of think one way to look at the world is that there's a version of history that says that like individual people are very powerful and have a lot of, kind of autonomy and ability to, to kind of go in the direction that they think is right. And then there's like all these other narratives where people try to kind of diminish people's autonomy and authority. And I'm just like, I've always been a person who really kind of believes that people understand people are smarter than people think.

[Theo Von]

Yes.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

And, and I think in general are able to make good decisions for their lives. And when they do things that like the media or whatever thinks don't make sense, it's generally because the media doesn't understand their life, not because the people are stupid. Like, if people are saying something that seems wrong, it's not usually misinformation. It's usually that you don't understand what's going on in that person's life. And I, I just think that there's like a certain kind of paternalism in, in some of the like, mainstream narratives and some of the media narratives.

[Theo Von]

But like a know it all is almost. Yeah, it's like there has been for sure for years. I think it's starting to change more.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I think it's a little more receptive as, as maybe some of those cultural or media elite people like, are having a harder time predicting what's going to happen in the world. Maybe there's a little more humility of like, okay, maybe we don't understand all of this, but, but to me, the best Predicting thing has always been like, all right, if you build something, do people actually think it's good? Because, like, at some level, you know, it's like, I just believe that people are actually very smart and understand their lives very well. And if you're building something that is useful for them, then they will use it. And if you're using something. If you're building something that is not useful for them, then they have other options. They will. They will do something else. And so, I don't know. It's always served me well to generally have faith in people and believe that people are smart and can make good decisions for themselves. And whenever we try to, like, adopt some sort of, like, attitude of, oh, we must know better than them, it's like, we're like, we're the people building technology. That's when you lose. Right? And if you do, and if you have that attitude for long enough, then you just, like, become a shitty company and you lose and you lose and you lose, and then you're irrelevant. So. So I. I tend to just think that at the end of the day, yeah. I mean, I think people are smarter than a lot of people think, and I think ultimately drive the direction that society goes in.

[Theo Von]

You. So, like, people, a lot of times, like, there's guys who are, like, kind of, you know, Elon Musk is probably a socially awkward guy. And I would say. I mean, I think.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, we all are.

[Theo Von]

Right? We all are. Right. I think we all are.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And it's interesting that there's, like, probably people. I mean, have you ever felt socially awkward over your years?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, I'm. I'm. I'm really smooth.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, no, no. Obviously. Yes. Yeah. I'm, like, the most awkward person. People have been calling me a robot online for 20 years. It does wonders for my confidence.

[Theo Von]

No, your confidence cannot be impaled. I don't think that's one thing you have. That's probably a. A sheer north star inside of you. It's got to be. Well, you might have become bulletproof. I think there's times where, yeah, you seem like a guy who probably, like, like, watched a video of how to be a guy on YouTube or something, you know, But I think we all. We all go through, like. We're all, like, awkward in different ways. You know, you put you in certain environments, and you're not at all. But I think it's interesting that there's.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I haven't found those environments yet, but maybe, you know, it's.

[Theo Von]

Dude, even being here today, bro, is nice. Of you. It's nice of you to be here today.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, I think the podcasts are awesome because you're just like. You get to explore something, right?

[Theo Von]

For sure. But here's my question. Sorry, Mark, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, go for it.

[Theo Von]

But I'm not going to get another chance to. So my question is, is it interesting that they have kind of people who have. Would probably self describe as socially awkward at times, kind of creating technology that socially connects people? That's the thing that. Do you ever kind of find that kind of fascinating? Because I've always had a belief that, that, that like, sometimes social awkward people are almost a mix between human and like, machine, like, like the future or something. That make any sense to you?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, you know, I. It's an interesting question. I. I just think that there are a bunch of factors here that you need to peel apart. I think someone can be socially perceptive and understand kind of what is going on in social dynamics and have a lot of empathy and care about other people while still being quite awkward in how they communicate. And, and so I, I don't think you can build a great.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I'm trying to build too broad of a bridge.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

No, well, I think it's a fair point, right? I mean, it's like, all right, a lot of social media is like people creating great content and, and kind of communicating really well, and those are not my biggest strengths. Right. It's like, I don't think I'm the best communicator by a long shot. I mean, I think I kind of got to where I am because I think I kind of understand what people like and I have the ability to build it. But I don't think my strength is like, oh, I can really like, communicate about why what I'm building is awesome. I generally like to make it set. My work speaks for itself and I try to explain it so I can kind of explain how I'm thinking about it. But. But I don't think people primarily like using our stuff because, you know, they saw me talk about it and they're like, oh, yeah, this seems super exciting now. But. But I think the ability to kind of communicate in a way that is not awkward is a different skill than the ability to kind of understand and have empathy for, for kind of people and, and social interactions. And it's. You know, there's an interesting thing where I actually think sometimes a lot of the people who can communicate in the smoothest way sometimes have a lot less empathy and understanding of social dynamics than the kind of nerdy guy who may not be able to express himself quite as well, but sort of understands a little bit better what's going on. And I don't know, the world's complicated and there's like multiple dimensions to all this stuff and no one's good at all of them. So you just try to do the things that you're like, hone the things that you're good at and try to put it to service to do as good of work as you can.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I think we're in this unique place where I believe it's like one or two generations think that one something isn't social and then the younger generation thinks that it is social.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And so I feel like in some senses we're at this crossroads, kind of of like how we communicate as humans a little bit.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And this advancement and sometimes those steps are, are kind of tricky to take. This is my last question because I know you have to go. So I feel like Elon Musk has like a. Like he wants to get on Mars and he wants to like impregnate planets or whatever, you know, or whatever he's doing. Dude, he's just blasting his seed out into the different rockets, whatever, you know, he's just out there, you know, he's like the Johnny Apple solar system, you know. But God bless. But no, God bless 100%, dude. And yeah, 100% and I'm just joking. He. I think he probably would know that, but I just think it's interesting. Like, you get his, you get what his ideas are. He wants to like, we want to be on Mars and we want to send the rockets and we want to make everything solar powered and stuff. And you're such an innovator and a leader. Like, what is, what do you feel like is your kind of. It's not a goal, but kind of where do you, what do you what draw? Like, what is the thing where you see us? You know, like, you're at a point where like, man, this is what I'm really proud of and this is where I see us going. Because, yeah, you know, we're all on this bus together going somewhere, and we don't exactly know where we're going because it's the future. Yeah, but you're kind of, you're kind of one of the guys driving the bus, you know, at least riding shotgun. So it's like, where are we going?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I mean, I think different people just care about, about different parts of, of the future. Right. So the space thing I think it's cool. I'm glad that people are working on it. It's never really been my. My main thing. For me, it's all. It's. It's kind of been about the intersection of. Of how do you build technology that helps people connect with each other and understand the world better and, and just taking different formats over time. Right. So, you know, when we got started, people, you know, are mostly like, you know, writing text. Then, you know, then we got smartphones and we got cameras. With the smartphones, we started taking a lot of photos and sharing that. And now, now most of what we do is video. Right. The mobile networks are good enough that you can, like, share great video.

[Theo Von]

It used to be great. Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Ten years ago, you try watching a video, it's like buffering. Buffering. It's like, okay, this is. This is terrible. But now, now it's good. People always want to both kind of express their ideas and experience other people's ideas in whatever the richest format is that they can. So if that was going to be text, then that was the best that they had. Great photos, visual great. A picture's worth a thousand words. Video better than photo for most things. But I don't think that's the end of the line. Right. I just think we're going to be here whether it's five years or 10 years, and I think the ability to, like, fully capture moments, to really be able to experience them, I think that's sort of the hologram thing that we're talking about. I think that that's just going to be, like, the next level of, of people being able to express, like, ideas.

[Theo Von]

Like the next moments in their life.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

Like the next, like, blank canvas.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

So that's one thing. And then there's the whole AI thing, which we haven't spent.

[Theo Von]

I know we need time on, but we should.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

We should. Which. That is really going to give people a lot of new tools to kind of both just get smarter at everything they do. And if you look at the world like I do through this lens of how do we express ourselves and how do we kind of take in an understanding of what's going on? AI is just going to be super powerful for, For. For both of those. It's. I mean, you can already see some of the basic stuff with, like, people creating images or.

[Theo Von]

I mean, it's crazy how fast it's happening, too. That's what I'm amazed at is just how fast it's happening.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

But do you think, like, do you envision this, like, are you just like, like what do you envision that will be on these, like surf. Do you have like a, like, kind of like a utopian idea or do like. I just wonder how do you see things? Because you're the only, like, you're probably one of the smartest people to ever use thought.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Theo Von]

Well, that we, you know, are one of the most unique people to ever use thought that we have in our time. So it's like, how do you, what is it, what is it like out there?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I mean, I, I think that we're going to get general intelligence. We're going to have systems that are smarter than, than any individual. And I think it's mostly going to be very empowering for people. First of all, look, I mean there are already systems that are smarter than any one individual today, right? If you take like a company, right, it's like, okay, you got like a thousand people or 10,000 people who are all kind of like working towards, you know, ostensibly working towards a goal together. Like I, you know, if the intelligence of a 10,000 person company is not greater than the intelligence of a single person, then like, what are we doing here? Right? So there are already these systems in the world that have this sort of super intelligence that is far exceeds what any one person can do. And I, I just think like, instead of having relatively few people be able to kind of harness the power of like you have the ability of, you know, you have a 10,000 person organization that can, that can help you build the things that you think are good. I just think in the future almost everyone is going to have that. And that's cool. What does that mean? It means that more ideas are going to get tried out.

[Theo Von]

So you might be up like leveling up in an overall idea of creativity in the universe with AI.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah. And I think it's going to be every field, right? So like science will get more advanced, like we'll get more productive. But like, I think a big part of the Internet is stuff just gets more fun and funnier and like the memes get weirder and more specific and like that is advancement too.

[Theo Von]

It's almost going to be like universal basic technology kind of in a way. Yeah.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's just the ability to, to kind of express these like very complicated ideas in like a very simple piece of media. I think we're going to get better and better at that and that advances our kind of understanding of ourselves as a society. So yeah, I don't know I think we'll get super intelligence. And I would guess that it will be a continuation of this trend that humanity has been on for a hundred plus years of basically getting more time to do creative things, less time having to do drudgery, not having to spend as much time working if you don't want. But if you want to dedicate your life towards that, you're gonna have more powerful tools than you could ever have possibly imagined.

[Theo Von]

So it's not as much a conviction as much as it is a space of choice, is how you see that, like just kind of that sort of thing.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

What do you mean?

[Theo Von]

It's not like you're like, like convicted to this sort of like future as we advance. Like, it's just a space of choice. If you still want to be able to do these things, you can do those. And if you want to be able to things, you can do those. Yeah, there you are on the bus, right there.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

There you go. I mean, that's a little weird of a photo, but I think that is good.

[Theo Von]

I do not think that is good.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't like that at all.

[Theo Von]

And we thank you for telling us that, though.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

It's horrible.

[Theo Von]

AI. Yeah, I think that was open. AI, Dude. So sorry about that. Do you think you. Do you think you'll live forever, Mark? Is that a thought coming to your mind?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

That is an interesting question, I think.

[Theo Von]

Do you have two minutes to answer, then you have to leave?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I don't know. Live forever? Gosh. I think at some point we will, like a lot of. Well, let me come at it this way. Outside of Meta, the philanthropy that I do with Priscilla, the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative is primarily focused on curing diseases. And the way we're doing that is not by focusing on any single disease. It's by focused on kind of basic technology at the intersection of AI and biology to accelerate the pace of science. And we originally thought that kind of 100 years when we started was sort of around the time frame to be able to cure and prevent and deal with all diseases. I know there's a chance that that happens sooner than, you know, because of, because of all the work with AI. I guess I'm. I'm more optimistic about that now. Whether that means that, like we are going to live forever or we just have healthier lives for the period that we're supposed to be living and then at some point, like your human body is done. I don't think we understand that yet enough. But a lot of curing diseases is not just about living. Forever. It's about having better lives. And. And it's like. And it's like while you're alive, like, you don't want to have to deal with. Right. It's like, like where you're just, like, you feel terrible because you're sick or like you're injured or there's, you know. So I think it's possible.

[Theo Von]

Like, do you. When you. Because you have an understanding of like, science and being human, that is. That is way supersedes a lot of people's. Do you. Do you think it's possible that we could figure that out?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Curing all diseases, to be able to.

[Theo Von]

Like, live to keep life? Like, do you think it's possible we figure out how to do it?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

I think it's possible. I don't know. It's. Honestly, it's not an area that I've studied that much. It's.

[Theo Von]

Didn't know because we don't know. We don't know what's going on, Mark. And we just want you to tell us.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, I mean, no, I don't know. I don't know. Let's check back in. In 10 years on that. I think as the, the AI stuff makes more progress, I think we'll. We'll kind of get a sense of the trajectory for that. But. But I think it's just going to unlock a lot of creativity and productivity and fun. And like, I think people. The technology industry misses fun a lot. I think that that's like, one observation that I've had building stuff out here is people are very focused on, like, all right, we're gonna make like, a better word processor. We're gonna, like, process information better. Cool. But I don't know, a lot of what people care about is just like, all right, I want to, like, be entertained. I want, like, I want my, My life to be fun, right? I want. I want something that's funny that I can then go show to my friends and then we can talk about that and like, and then just hang out and have a good time, like, showing each other funny things and like, talking about what the world is. And I think AI is going to make this stuff all great. So I don't know. I mean, it's. I do think this is. This is a big. A big focus for us. And we're building this meta AI. It's our. We call it personal AI. I mean, our goal on this is not just to build something that's like. I mean, yeah, it's going to be super smart, right? It's. It's like, yeah, we're trying to solve full general intelligence and super intelligence and all that, but I think in order to build a product that people are going to want to use, you're going to want to build something that's fun to use. That means like, you're not just going to want to like, type to it. You want to like have a conversation. Right. And it's not just about having it be like only able to answer hard questions. It should like get to know you and like what you think is funny and like what you ate. Right. So that way, you know, it can like or you know what your hobbies are. So that way it can kind of relate to you. And I think people don't know that.

[Theo Von]

AI can do that. I think that we need. We're missing quickly, I think, an education, educating people how to what AI is and how to use it. I think I notice even in my own life and I spend a lot of time online and virtual involved in stuff, but I think people are not understanding what's going on. So I don't know how we get people educated quickly so that they can. I think whoever can also serve people the best way to educate themselves is going to be able to best exert or be able to best coagulate people to their AI model or whatever.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Coagulate used that way or.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Or something like that.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But because that's the big thing. A lot of people are like, we have the best AI, but most people are like, what the hell, what are we doing? You know what I'm saying?

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So anyway, sorry, I think I kept you longer than we were supposed to, but yeah, sorry. We got into a lot of technological stuff. I think it's just kind of like, you know, we don't know what's happening and sometimes we want to talk. We get to talk to somebody like you and it's important, you know.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Yeah, no, it's good. This is a fun conversation.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, man. I enjoyed it too, man. Yeah, thanks for sharing just some of what your life is like with us and just I hope that. Yeah, just keep, make sure we stay alive or whatever we're supposed to and just keep taking.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Working on it.

[Theo Von]

Okay. That's all we can ask for now, sir.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

Awesome, Mark.

[Theo Von]

Thanks, man. Appreciate it, brother. Yeah. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone oh but.

[Mark Zuckerberg]

When I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I.

[Theo Von]

Can feel it in my bones but it's gonna take. I also want to say a thank you to the people at Grace Dental. That's Grace Dental in Palo Alto, California. They glued. My tooth was broken, and they glued it back together before the interview today. So I'm thankful that they helped, and I'm grateful that I got to meet them. Thanks.