#598 - Joaquin Phoenix

Summary

Podcast Summary: This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von – Episode #598: Joaquin Phoenix

Release Date: July 18, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode #598 of This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von, host Theo Von sits down with acclaimed actor Joaquin Phoenix. The conversation unfolds at the iconic Hotel Chelsea in New York City, delving into Phoenix's illustrious career, his approach to acting, and his latest project, Eddington. The episode offers listeners an intimate glimpse into Phoenix's artistic process and personal reflections.

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Meeting and First Impressions

The episode begins with Theo Von introducing Joaquin Phoenix, highlighting his notable roles in films such as Joker, Walk the Line, and Signs. Phoenix's humble demeanor sets the tone for the conversation.

• Theo Von [00:00]: "Today's guest is Mr. Joaquin Phoenix."
• Joaquin Phoenix [00:51]: "Cuz it seems like the assassin, like, before he's about to people up."

This playful interaction underscores the relaxed yet insightful nature of the interview.

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The Impact of Joaquin Phoenix's Work

Theo expresses deep appreciation for Phoenix's contributions to cinema, emphasizing how his performances inspire and provoke thought among audiences.

• Theo Von [02:30]: "Thank you for all your beautiful work over the years. It's been nice to witness and consume as just a regular person in the world."
• Joaquin Phoenix [02:47]: "That's very nice. I mean, I don't have anything special. I don't do anything special."

Phoenix's humility contrasts with his powerful on-screen presence, highlighting his grounded personality despite his fame.

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Summer Activities and Personal Life

The conversation shifts to personal lives, with Theo sharing snippets of his summer, including attending his niece's high school graduation and watching the film Signs. Phoenix reveals that he did not graduate high school, hinting at his early commitment to acting.

• Theo Von [05:15]: "I got to see my niece graduated from high school. So that was pretty cool just to watch somebody go through that moment."
• Joaquin Phoenix [05:35]: "No, I didn't. To be honest, I'm not sure I even made it to high school."

This exchange underscores the sacrifices and choices made in pursuing a demanding acting career.

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Deep Dive into Eddington and Acting Philosophy

Theo and Phoenix delve into Phoenix's latest film, Eddington, discussing its themes against the backdrop of contemporary societal issues like COVID mandates and the Black Lives Matter movement. Phoenix offers a candid look into his acting methodology, particularly in portraying complex characters during tumultuous times.

• Theo Von [07:00]: "There's a lot of new but also errant information in the world."
• Joaquin Phoenix [08:52]: "I think it's like you're just trying to balance it out. And sometimes you can be so in the moment that you do forget that."

Phoenix emphasizes the importance of balancing long-term character development with present-moment authenticity, especially when collaborating with directors like Ari Aster.

• Joaquin Phoenix [11:04]: "It's something very humbling about that process. Right. And you have to do the work as if every moment is part of this character's life."

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Collaboration with Director Ari Aster

The discussion highlights Phoenix's collaborative relationship with director Ari Aster, underscoring the dynamic interplay between actor and director in shaping a film's narrative and emotional depth.

• Joaquin Phoenix [15:23]: "So something that Ari and I talked about, something that was very important to me from the beginning, was that Joe challenges like the audience's preconceived idea of what a conservative small town sheriff is."

Phoenix praises Aster's vision and dedication, acknowledging the director's pivotal role in the film's success.

• Theo Von [21:06]: "Are there moments where you're almost there?"
• Joaquin Phoenix [21:03]: "Sometimes."

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Character Complexity and Personal Identification

Phoenix discusses his approach to embodying Joe Cross, the protagonist of Eddington, exploring the character's imperfections and internal conflicts. He relates these aspects to his own life experiences and emotional responses.

• Theo Von [28:02]: "Does that just feel like regular life? Like, could you relate to him as a human?"
• Joaquin Phoenix [28:03]: "Yeah. I think all the characters and this I felt when I read the script, I was like, oh, I kind of like, I recognize myself and all of these characters actually."

This segment highlights Phoenix's ability to infuse his personal insights into his characters, creating authentic and relatable portrayals.

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Reflections on Society and Media

Theo and Phoenix reflect on the state of society, media influence, and the collective emotional landscape shaped by recent global events. They discuss how these factors influence not only filmmaking but also personal well-being.

• Theo Von [31:29]: "It feels like we're just doing the opposite of a hug right now."
• Joaquin Phoenix [33:09]: "I think we wanted to forget or like, pretending to forget."

This conversation underscores the interconnectedness of art and societal change, illustrating how films like Eddington mirror and influence real-world dynamics.

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Understanding the Filmmaking Process

Phoenix offers a behind-the-scenes look at the filmmaking process, detailing the iterative nature of scene development and the often unpredictable outcomes of editing decisions.

• Joaquin Phoenix [11:04]: "It's like something very humbling about that process. Right. And you have to do the work as if every moment is part of this character's life."
• Joaquin Phoenix [13:05]: "It's terrible. And the times where I'm like, I don't know if I even landed. I'm not sure what's."

Phoenix candidly shares his experiences regarding the uncertainties and collaborative efforts involved in creating a cohesive final product.

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Conclusion

The interview concludes with heartfelt acknowledgments, touching upon personal losses and the enduring impact of family. Both hosts and guest emphasize the importance of empathy, understanding, and the human connections that transcend the confines of their professional lives.

• Theo Von [88:09]: "Thank you for thinking with me today."
• Joaquin Phoenix [88:35]: "Cheers to our dads, man. They're out there."

This poignant ending reinforces the episode's themes of resilience, reflection, and the shared human experience.

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Notable Quotes

• Joaquin Phoenix [02:47]: "I don't have anything special. I don't do anything special."
• Joaquin Phoenix [11:04]: "You have to do the work as if every moment is part of this character's life."
• Theo Von [31:29]: "It feels like we're just doing the opposite of a hug right now."
• Joaquin Phoenix [33:09]: "I think we wanted to forget or like, pretending to forget."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von offers a profound exploration of Joaquin Phoenix's artistic journey, his introspective approach to acting, and his reflections on contemporary societal issues. Through candid dialogue and meaningful exchanges, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for Phoenix's craft and the thoughtful narratives he brings to the screen.

Transcript

[Theo Von]

Today's guest is a legendary actor, one of the greats, they'll say. I'll say it. People are saying it. He's had so many hit, so many amazing roles in the Joker, Walk the Line, the Master Signs. Eddington is his new film, which I got to take a peek at before we got together, we caught up at the Hotel Chelsea in New York City. Today's guest is Mr. Joaquin Phoenix. Yeah. Do you have any. You okay if we start, Joaquin?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I am. Why are you looking at the ground? What's going on?

[Theo Von]

I don't know. I just feel like I'm a little bit nervous. Oh.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Cuz it seems like. It seems like the assassin, like, before, he's about to people up. He's just, like, staring, like, getting in the zone. It's like, let's do this. So I was like, okay, Yeah, I mean, start. Sure, man. Start.

[Theo Von]

Okay. Okay. I think, yeah. I'm waiting for, like, the coaches in my head to show up and be like, you can do this. You know, wait a minute.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You can do this. You can definitely do this.

[Theo Von]

Thank you.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I'm questionable, but coach is like, he's questionable. We're not sure he's going to play.

[Theo Von]

Hey, that's not Jimmy Chitwood. Okay. We got to sit that guy on the bench, you know? Oh, it was the guy from Hoosiers. Member who comes in and makes.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I don't remember.

[Theo Von]

Dang. Thank you for telling me you don't remember instead of pretending like you do, though. So I keep talking about it.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You're welcome. It's going to happen a lot. There's a lot I probably don't know.

[Theo Von]

Well, we're gonna find out. Thank you for your time, man.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No, thank you.

[Theo Von]

I appreciate it. I really appreciate it. And thank you for all your beautiful work over the years. It's been nice to witness and consume as just a regular person in the world.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, man. Thank you. You're very sincere. It's. It's very nice and refreshing and also slightly uncomfortable.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, sorry. No, I know you're married, so I'll keep it just as sincere. You know, we won't get physically sincere because that can be. It's outlawed in some territories, but. But no, thank you for your time, man. And. Yeah, thank you for all the cool work and helping us think and stuff like that, just as viewers, you know? Yeah. It's funny how sometimes, like, life or God or whatever, uses like a person is like a. An instrument, you know, And. Yeah, you just have such a great way of like. Yeah. Just Being able to do something that we can't, so many people can't do, but then it helps us, the rest of us reflect on how we do things and live. So does it make any sense even.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

That's very nice. I mean, I don't know. All. All I'm hearing is. All I want to say is like, no, everyone can do it. I don't have anything special. I don't do anything special.

[Theo Von]

Well, you're a lucky guy then. Yeah, you've been fortunate.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I've been very fortunate. I've worked with great, great people.

[Theo Von]

What'd you do this summer? Did anything fun? I feel like I was getting serious for a second.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No, no, it was. No, I wasn't.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

What did I. The summer start?

[Theo Von]

I guess the summer starts in. I would say mid. I would say June 1st.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

June. Okay. No, nothing fun. I. I just have this movie coming out. So we started, you know, I think somewhere like the 10th or something like that. Started press.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So did some press in LA and then flew to London. It's a press. So. So that's it. Nothing. Nothing terribly exciting. Yeah, but I'm not. We're not like those kind of people. We're not like, like, you know, like go vacation people.

[Theo Von]

That's not your life. No. Oh, yeah. You always. I think when you picture like actors, you always picture them in like a little bit of like kind of like a Rapunzel castle or like somebody's having shrimp, you know, like that kind of thing. I think that's like a romanticizing of the. Of the Right.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Of the people. I mean, maybe I should. Yeah, I mean, maybe that's what's missing. But. But no, it's not. I mean I have like. But it's not a regular thing. It's definitely not like, oh, here's summertime. Let's. Let's do that summer experience.

[Theo Von]

Got it.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

But yeah, I have that like fantasy sometimes. Like sometimes I see myself like in slow motion jumping off a pier into a lake and shit. But I haven't done it yet.

[Theo Von]

Okay. Okay. So if you're not even living out the fantasies you're supposed to be doing, then what the hell am I friggin sitting over here parading them around, you know?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

What are you doing? What? What do you do with your summer?

[Theo Von]

That's a great question.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I was your question.

[Theo Von]

Thanks. Thanks, dude. Oh, this is a real pickle ball game here. I like.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No, no, no, it's good. I just. I just didn't want credit for something like it wasn't my Question. So I just felt like I had to acknowledge that.

[Theo Von]

No, well, well said. Yeah, that's a great question. I didn't. I think, yeah, I didn't do that much. I just kind of, like, worked, I guess. And, oh, I did get to see my niece graduated from high school. So that was pretty cool just to watch somebody go through that moment where they're kind of like, you know, where the training wheels kind of come off of life a little bit, you know? So I thought that was pretty neat. And I watched Edington the other day.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, yeah?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, really cool.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Cool. I never graduated.

[Theo Von]

You didn't graduate high school?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No. To be honest, I'm not sure I even made it to high school.

[Theo Von]

Right. Okay. Damn. That explains things so much better than. I think watching you, you're like, oh, this guy didn't went to high school.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right. So, yeah, I want you to have all the information, like I'm an open book. And I just want you to really understand what you're dealing with here.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

As we move forward.

[Theo Von]

Okay, well, let's talk about Eddington first, because, um, it was awesome. And it was just like one of the neat things that I thought, and this is just me being kind of judgmental, just so we can frame this for the conversation, is, you want some water?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I was thinking about it. I was deciding in my head. I was going, how thirsty are you? How much plastic do you want? What. What are we going to do here? Yeah, that, that's, that's. That's what, that's what you saw. So I was like. I looked at the bottle, I said, it looks good. I need the water. But it's got a lot of plastic in there.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No, no, that just feels like. Then I just feel like I'm.

[Theo Von]

No, I think you should.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Let's get it.

[Theo Von]

I believe. Look, I agree. I think everybody's about to try to stop drinking out of plastic.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right? But this is special water.

[Theo Von]

Oh, it's Artez Artisan Artesian. That's nice.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

It's nice.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, it's nice.

[Theo Von]

Oh, that came down on a Sherpa's back or something. That was definitely.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So now this, that, that counteracts the plastic, I think.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I think everybody's worried about, like, microplastics and everything. Recent studies have revealed that glass bottles now contain significantly more microplastics than plastic bottles.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Thank you so much. I did not know that I was going to get an education here. Thank you.

[Theo Von]

So crazy.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I like it.

[Theo Von]

Speaking of so crazy, man, let's talk about Eddington. Dude, it was so intense. The stakes kept rising, like, because you have, like, this. It's kind of like a time capsule moment. This is what I felt like. To me, it felt like this time capsule moment from very recently where you have the COVID mandates, you have the BLM movement going on, you have a change in the overlords of media. So now, like, information is coming out of everywhere, right? So there's a lot of, like, new but also errant information in the world. You have all of these things happening at the same time. Then you have this sheriff, Joe Cross, who's kind of like an authority figure, right? You know, that's who you look to when there's something going on. But also at the same time, everyone's challenging authority. So it's just. And then he starts to lose authority over himself. So there's like. There's so much going on. My question. I'm going to get to it, too. When there's so much going on like that, as an actor, are you thinking, like, in each scene, are you thinking I have to embody all of these, like, little tributaries or at once? Or do you take that, like, scene by scene or moment by moment? What's that like? Because, I mean, it. It got so intense. Just as a viewer, you're like, I don't even know if I can watch this, much less trying to be the guy who's, you know, spreading the jam. You know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I think it probably. I think it changes. Like, I think there. There are days where, you know, you're probably hyper aware of the. The arc, and you're. You're kind of, like, following this trail that you're creating. And there's other days where that gets in the way, and you just go, like, shut the fuck up. And just, like, listen to what this other person say right in front of you and just react to that. Like, we're not in our own lives. We're not always aware of, like, our arc. So I think it's like you're just trying to balance it out. And sometimes you can be so in the moment that you do, you forget that. It's like you just came. You know, we're not. We're shooting the scene in six weeks. But you just have come from whatever. It's, you know, intense emotional situation. And now you're coming to this scene. You got to. We have to carry that over. So I think that changes us. Like, something that is just, like, alive and moving and changing. And of course, you have, like, a partner, which is the director. And in this case, the writer, director Ari Aster, who just, like, knows the script obviously inside and out and the characters. And we had been working, going through the script, you know, for a year prior to shooting, or we'd get together, we were actually in New York primarily, and just read through the script and talk about things. So you're kind of going through and you're developing. You're developing the character and you're following this kind of plan that you have sometimes in your head. Some things you've discussed, some things you're just spontaneously coming up with. And then you just hope for the best. You just go. At some point you go, well, because here's the thing. This is the crazy thing about it. You'll, like. You'll have this fucking plan that you're, like, fucking clever. I figured this shit out, goes from this scene. Then I go do that and that scene. I'm doing that and that scene. You have this brilliant fucking plan and you're like, I'm kind of like a genius.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And then in editing, they'll, like pull two of those scenes out, like, take them out or, like, put them somewhere else. And then it's like, it's much better. And you're like, I'm not a genius. I don't fucking know anything. Like, if this shit works, it's because the fucking director is making this work.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You know, so, like, that's the. It's like something very humbling about that process. Right. And you have to do the work. You have to do the work as if every moment is part of this character's life. And then there's moments that aren't even in the script and on screen that you're trying to, I don't know, think about and feel and kind of like, take on as your experience. But you don't really know what's going to end up in the movie. So, yeah, it's. It's. It's. I mean, it's a pretty cool experience. It's. It's kind of like life.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Like, you plan all this and you plan your day and your life and your year and. And then happens. It changes. Things get moved around and sometimes their characters, they just get, like, taken out.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And sometimes you have a plan, like you're gonna show up to like, a something and you're. Everything's gonna be perfect. You're gonna have flowers for this, and you're gon to have the best thing to say. And then next thing you know, you're running late or you get there, your Plane gets delayed, and now you show up and you're the. You're. You're getting there as everybody's leaving, and you're the last person, and you brought the 30th thing of flowers, and everything's different.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Can you tell at your. With your level of experience, can you tell when you stuck the landing on a scene? Like, can you, like, is there a moment when that thing cuts and you just, like, can be like, that was pretty good. Like, I serviced it.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Well, I've had that feeling before, and it always turned out to be terrible, and I was wrong. Like, anytime. My experience is that anytime I'm like.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, okay, got it.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

It's terrible. And the times where I'm like, I don't. I don't know. I don't know if I even landed. I'm not sure what's. Not sure what happened. That's usually when things. When I, like, look back at it and I go, like, oh, I think that was good. That's just my experience. I don't know what other actors are like, but, yeah, I guess maybe. Because I. I don't know. I don't know if the things that I like, are, like, capturing something that's, like, feels, like, intangible and hard to define and, like, when you kind of, like, nail it. I don't really like that kind of acting. Or maybe I'm not good at it. Like, yeah, maybe there's a sense of.

[Theo Von]

Bravado that comes with that, that's not as true to life, you know, because it's very rare in life. Maybe you just feel like you kind of nail it.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Probably. Maybe. I mean, I don't know. I guess did. So. I think there's some people that walk around the world, like, nailed it.

[Theo Von]

I know, but Hulk Hogan? Who else?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Who else is somebody that really freaking nailed it? Oh, Nicholas Cage and Family, Man. Have you seen that movie? God, we got to sit together on a plane one time. You know what was interesting about. And thanks for talking about this with me, man, because it's, you know, it's just cool to get to, like. Like, it's rare. You get looking at a piece of art and you get to talk to the paint. You know, the interesting thing about Joe Cross, who. The character that you played is that there were moments I'm like, am I cheering for this guy? Like, I just felt. I was like, how do I feel? Because he's who you're. You're kind of going through the. The. The. The film with Through Eddington with. I'm like, how do, like, do I feel for him? Do I feel against him? The whole time I just, like, I just knew. I just felt. He made me feel right. Are you thinking about that as we're going, as you're going through it, like how you're trying to make us feel or. That's not something that an actor is doing.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So something that Ari and I talked about, something that was very important to me from the beginning, was that Joe challenges like the audience's preconceived idea of what a conservative small town sheriff is. And I didn't know how, I don't really know how or what that really meant, what that really looked like. And I think at some point I just, I just wanted to care about him. Like, I just wanted to. I just wanted to like, take politics or philosophy or anything like that out of the picture and just go like, what's the. What's the man? And I think that. I really think that we found that through his relationship with his, his wife.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Saying that's really where he's like most like his, his power. Authority is like threatened or non existent. And so that it becomes like the catalyst for his kind of desire for more authority and power. It's one of the things, as you said, there's. There's several things kind of happening, but then once you start working, I think maybe you're thinking about that less. It's less becomes about. It's almost like you. That you start the process almost like an audience member yourself, because you're kind of outside this thing looking in. You're reading the script and he's kind of like. It feels like it's like this, this character over there, you know what I mean? And you're trying to get to it or bring it to you or whatever that process is. I don't fucking know. Um, and so you're, you're starting like, like that and you're kind of going like, oh, how do I feel standing back here when this guy does this? And like, if he, if he said that line in this way, how does that make me. How would that make me feel? And then like, somehow throughout this, like, process, you hopefully start coming together and kind of merging to some point where it's not me standing outside of the character, not in like some bullshit, like I'm the character wave, but just like, you're just hopefully experiencing something versus, like telling an audience what they should feel.

[Theo Von]

Right?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And I think ultimately the director is probably most responsible, is totally responsible for Telling the audience how they should feel. Right. So I think it's part of me is like to just to take on the. The experience and be honest in that. That moment.

[Theo Von]

So you have to really trust that director then, huh?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

Ari's outside. I think he does not want to be mentioned in here. He's trying to edit from outside. He just bleeped his own name out, dude.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Totally, totally.

[Theo Von]

Wow.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But that just shows you how locked in he is to being on the ones and twos. A lot of times with acting, the actors get blamed for when things go bad. Right. I feel like as a viewer, you're like, oh, you know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right.

[Theo Von]

Like Rodney Dangerfield sucked in that, you know, or whatever. Well, yeah, but it's really the directors. The director doesn't take as much heat. I don't feel like.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Well, so the actor is the one that you're looking at. So like, if you're like hating a movie and you're just looking at somebody's face, you're just going to blame them. Right. But conversely, like, if you're also like, this rules have the best time, they get the credit. Right? So, like, actors, oftentimes, I think more often than not, the actors are getting credit and the director's like, I fucking made all of this work. Yeah, you fucking grateful shit. It must be like, very frustrating to.

[Theo Von]

Be a parent almost with a child. You're like, this totally. Thing looks handsome because I chased that lady down the street and he's just wandering around here with his good looks hiding important in the backyard.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Because we bought him a shovel for his birthday. Right?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Like, exactly. Yeah. And I mean, there's. You're talking about, you know, you're having multiple takes to choose from, right? Yeah. And so, you know, Jex was going through and ultimately with the editor selecting this take, sometimes they're pulling the audio from another take they're putting in there. Just the. Just like, what. What lens is used and how it's lit and the angle and whether you cut to a wide shot or you're close, like all of those things, it just happens. Like, even for me, I just watch a movie also. I'm not aware of that all the time.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's a good point. It's not like you're a wizard watching it or something.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I'm definitely not a wizard watching. Yeah. But it's so. I imagine it's very frustrating, you know, for them. And I think anyone that's. That's in the business knows this. Right. So when the movie, when the movie doesn't work. Even if the, if the general public is like, you know, fucking so and so sucks.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

The director probably knows that they really mean them, so they, they carry that. I think it's probably. I think it's probably the. I imagine it's the hardest job being a director, I think, I mean, in. For making movies. Yeah, the hardest job.

[Theo Von]

You haven't directed. No. Did you ever think about it?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Sometimes.

[Theo Von]

Are there moments where you're almost there?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I don't know that. I don't know that. I like to delegate and, and I'm really indecisive, so. And there it's like, particularly under pressure and it feels like there's a lot. You know, it's. You're constantly under pressure, I think as a, as a director. Right. So. But I don't, I don't know. They. I think what's appealing about it, the idea is the collaboration with all of, like the heads of the different departments. As an actor, you, you know, you're. You're collaborating with costume and hair and makeup and, and like props and stuff. And then of course, the, the director. But like, the director is just like everybody. And that's. That sounds, that sounds nice and appealing. I don't know, it might be a pain. Like oftentimes, you know, they're like, I'll call you back, but I have to choose which forks we're. We're using for the dinner scene.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Like, what's your forks? Yeah, like, like I. There's five forks to choose from and I got to choose which. Which one we're using. Yeah, like that. That kind of sucks.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. And it sucks if you're watching a movie and you see a fork that is out of place too. You're like, these people. This is in the Titanic.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You blame the actor.

[Theo Von]

Oh, honestly.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

The actor's face. And you're just like, I hate this.

[Theo Von]

Oh, you're like, dunkirk sucks. You see the silverware in that thing? That's how you feel sometimes. You know what was interesting? Interesting to me. And if some of these questions are novice about acting and directing, thank you for entertaining them. One thing that was interesting to me about Joe Cross, about your character. Well, for one, he was so imperfect. Right. And yeah, when you saw him at night and he was like feeling like those feelings with. When he come home from his day and he finally got to deal with what he really wanted to deal with, which was love. Right. That just felt like, so human to me. And he was his villain and his hero. Right. He was he was the creator of his possibility and his. And his pain at the same time. And it was just so like, ah, it was, it was just a lot to watch. Sometimes does that just feel like regular life? Like, like, could you relate to him as a human? Does that make any sense?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yes. Yeah, it does. First of all, I happy to talk about whatever. I also don't. I just realized, like, I was just talking about movies and directing. I don't fucking know anything. I had no idea what a director does. So I just like, I don't want you to go like, oh, now I understand what directing is because I guarantee you, directors are like this guy, no shit. So I just want to clear that up.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's got some ideas, I'll tell you that. I'll tell you that about him. Well, you didn't walk in here like you definitely like had brought the weather with you. You know, you certainly came in here like a victim of the storm or just like a regular guy who just gotten, you know, you can't. Yeah, anyway, go on, sir.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No, no, no. Let me, let me educate you here, Theo. Let me teach you about filmmaking.

[Theo Von]

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[Joaquin Phoenix]

I'M sorry, I don't remember. What.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I just felt like he was the cause of his own possibility and his own pain constantly. And it just, it made me think so much about life, but it was so real to see him that way. Could you relate to that in your own life, like. Or.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, of course.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Just normal, huh?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think all the, all the characters and this I. I felt when I read the script, I was like, oh, I kind of like, I recognize myself and all of these characters actually. And sometimes it's like, you know, it's a. An embarrassing admission. And then, you know, there's just things particularly that, that time and I think in some ways, yeah, maybe we're always, we're always. Maybe we're always responsible for how we respond to what happens in the world. Right. So we're not like so much of like just what happens in life you don't have any control over, but how we respond to that, we have control Over. And I know I constantly fail in. In my response or at least don't respond in the best way in the moment. Right. Respond, like, emotionally. And so I definitely. I definitely identified with. With that. And that's. That's Joe. I mean, he kind of, like, just keeps making mistakes. And he's so, like. He's. He's so desperate to, like, have some control. Like, just like, let's just. He just wants. He's just like. You know that feeling when you're like, I just. I need things to just stop for a fucking second so I can breathe. And then, like, your desire to, like, make things stop, just make things ramp up more and more, and then you just, like, trip and you fall down the stairs. It's just like. It's like that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. That escalation. Oh, I kept imagining the whole time, I'm like, oh, my God, this guy is just like. Has put too much cheese on his burger, dude. This guy is just. And then I kept imagining the whole time he has to take a pee and he can't even get to that. He's just dealing with, like, activists and people throwing things through wind. And then he gets so many. Sleeps in his glasses. Like, he literally gets up and just has to, like, bow. And he's like, suddenly it's all in focus again, and his brain has barely had time to rest. And I'm like, God, somebody just put a sniper shoot a Xanax into this dude or something. Just somebody give him a damn Percocet suppository or something. This guy needs some relief, you know?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And then it also was like, God, especially during that time, like, a lot of mania came along with a lot of those different, like, things that were happening in the world. Right. And there's still a lot of mania remnants from that. And I was like, God, everybody needed some relief, you know, it feels like that as a society. Sometimes we need some relief sometimes. But we have everything we need. It feels like. So it's kind of a weird juxtaposition to be in.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. So what. What's the plan?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, what is the plan? I don't know. I don't know. It just feels like we're just doing the opposite of a hug right now.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

That's. That's right. That's right. And yeah.

[Theo Von]

Did you feel when you watch that movie, like you got to the. Like, you're like, this will be a reminder. This will, like, help influence it people in a better way. This could be like a seed of, like, where we've been and where we can grow from or did.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I don't know. I mean, I. I don't know. I. I don't know. Like, movies are surprising. Those things that connect with people and actually influence culture and sometimes they don't. There's not. I don't really know what it is. That's crazy, you know? No, no, no. I think it's a fair question. And I think in some ways I think all I can do is think about, like, myself versus, like, the effect that it has on me. And, you know, in some ways there was. There was like. I felt like I had permission to. To laugh at myself. Like a way to, like, kind of evaluate some of that, like, mania, as you say. It's like we're like crazy. Like, the summer of 2020 was crazy and crazy people were. I love that you said it's the opposite of a hug. And it really was like everyone was so kind of fractured and fragmented and just all isolated in our own worlds. Like, quite literally physically isolated. And then everyone was just so online and kind of fed their own. An algorithm fucking thing. Yes. That just further kind of propelled them into their own lanes. Like, even people in the same houses in their own place. And there was just like this. I remember everything felt so aggressive. Like, even there were like, they were like signs that were supposed to be like, like, we trust science and we, you know, we love all people and. But somehow even that felt like confrontational.

[Theo Von]

Right?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Like there's like, there's. It's like it didn't. It felt like no matter what anyone said, everyone was like, this is my position and my position is fucking right? And you can go fuck yourself. Like, you know, it's just like people went nuts. Well, we. Not people not. We did.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. All of us. It doesn't seem like you're calling anybody out. It feels like we're all inclusive. I agree. It's amazing. What a time. It was like the most recent time capsule that was the most insane. Like, usually they're like, we found a can of Ham from 1930. You know, and we're going to invite everybody over and the girls will sing and then we'll open it, you know? But this was like, Jesus Christ, we just found the most insane. Die cap. So. And we. The mud is still wet.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

But then it's like it was a reminder. Have we even recovered from all of that? Like, what happens to the human being as we go through all that? And then you have all this pent up anger and confusion and everything.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I think we Wanted to forget or like, pretending to forget, because, yeah, was. It was ugly. And. And it was ugly, but it's also really. It was also really painful. And I think. I think a lot of people were, like, fucking scared. And.

[Theo Von]

But then also the character of the mother, I didn't even think about that. Of Joe Cross's mother, because mother in law. Mother in law. Oh, that was his mother in law. Of the mother in law. Because then you. You're.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You're like, did it just change everything now for you? It's not his mother?

[Theo Von]

No. It made it a little bit more crazier. I'm like, so you're telling me teamed up with her mom and now they're the one just like, sh. But then that is something a lot of people have in their life. Like, oh, well, I talked to my girlfriend's mom all the. And now we're team. Or the. Or the. You know. Oh, man, that guy was screwed, dude.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yes, J.

[Theo Von]

Cross was screwed. Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

But he. But he did. He. He screwed himself.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. He was the. He was the holder of his possibility and his pain at the same time, you know? It was pretty crazy. Yeah. What was? Meeting Ari Aster. Like, I watched some interviews with him. He seems like a charming guy.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

I met one of his partners. Lars Knudsen. Yeah. Yeah, dude. I had some video calls with him a few years ago. I just really. I was looking.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

But why?

[Theo Von]

Like, we were just talking about something, maybe thinking about an idea. I had an idea about a. A movie. And David Spade and I just wrote a movie and made a movie. We paid for it ourselves that we made. Right. So it's very unique.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

It's done.

[Theo Von]

It's done. We're editing it now. Really? And it's.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Are you in it?

[Theo Von]

I'm in it. I'm like, this his sidekick. He's like the main guy.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Wait, man, so you know all about making movies and then you were just playing dumb, asking me questions, setting me up, Set me up to be like, well, let me tell you something, Theo.

[Theo Von]

Not at all, dude.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Here's here. How. Here's how it's done.

[Theo Von]

No, we. We have no idea what we have, dude. We may have a damn visual diorama that a couple of kids put together for their kindergarten class. You know, I was playing a bus boy, you know, not Comedus, you know, So I think it's definitely. This is way different. I think it's a different. This is a. Is that the right way to say it, Commodus?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I don't know.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Anyway, no, I Didn't know anything. I mean, I'm just learning little things, but, I mean, I get to talk to somebody who's been, you know, who has had a plethora of experience.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So you talked to Lars. Lars is great. Lars is a great producing partner of Ari.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I just realized that yesterday when I was looking it up, I was like, oh, wow. I had speaking with this guy before, but when I.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

When I met Ari, we didn't. We didn't meet. It was. We. We spoke on the phone. And it was the summer of 2020 is when we first spoke, and he had this film that he wanted to make called Beau's Afraid that he wanted to talk to me about. And so I just. I spoke with him on the phone, and, I mean, the first time that I met him. This is so crazy. This is so Covid. Was. Was when I got to Montreal to. To shoot that movie. And it's so wild because it just was, like, normal. We just accepted it. But that's very strange, right? To not meet the director for, like, the actor and the director, not to, like, be in a room together until they're two weeks out from shooting.

[Theo Von]

It seems risque. Yeah, it seems risque to me to do something like that. It's like you could interview your cellmate or whatever, but you're like, now I'll just wing it in there, you know? You know, like, you could have a little small Q and A with your Sally.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So was there something that inspired you or led you to think? Because I think what's interesting also in. In. In the career of an actor is you start to realize, well, I only have so many times that I get to do this and times that I can afford to be away from family and friends and just take on such energy in my life. And so it's. I'm sure it starts to become a little bit more poignant, like the choices that you do make. So what? Was there something about him or his processes that made you think this is the right choice? Or how do you land on a choice like that?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You never know if it's the right choice or what is right. You're just going. I mean, honestly, I. I just liked him. We started talking, and the way that he talked about the film and the way that he talks about the character, I knew that it was personal, and I could tell that it meant so much to him, that he loved making movies, and it meant so much to him and that he, like. I think I just got a sense that he was tireless and. And like, you know, you. The director, like, really has to be obsessed, right? Because they do have to.

[Theo Von]

I have to do so much.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Which fork am I choosing? Right. You want them to actually care about that or else you're going to be watching the thing, Dunkirk, and you're pissed off.

[Theo Von]

Or they have plastic silverware.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right, right.

[Theo Von]

In 1812.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And I'm sure.

[Theo Von]

I'm sure that wasn't the right year for Dunkirk either. So we're all bad.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No, no, that's. That sounds good. So. So I think that that's. That. That's maybe what. You know, right away I was like, okay, well, this, you know, he. He loves making movies. And I. I know that just from talking to him on the phone. And he's funny. I mean, I think that's the biggest thing. Sometimes you're just like, do I want to hang out with this dude? I'm sure, right? And it's like, because, you know, you go through a whole range of motions. Make a movie. I mean, yeah, it's a movie and you're. You're safe, but in the moment, your body doesn't know that it's not real. You know? I mean, some. That you're doing right? And so it can. You know, things can get, like. There can be a lot of emotion or a lot of energy and. And. And, yeah, you know, having somebody that you really like feels important. And they paid me so much money. Oh, God, no, they didn't.

[Theo Von]

Give me some other. Give me a little dude side quest really quick. So my friend Josh used to live, like, I think somewhere, like, in E, kind of like over by east la. And I've known who you were, like, a decent amount of my life because most of the world knows. Knows your name. But he said that you lived in his area, and I was like, what if I opened up a shoe store called these Boots Are Made for Joaquin, right? I was like, just to get to meet you. That would be the goal. The only goal of the whole store was to get to meet you. And anyway, that was just like, something funny that we thought of one day. But if you saw that store, say, if you'd driven by a couple times, like, do you think you ever would have stopped in there?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Absolutely. Yeah. And I would have just, like, cleaned the place out for sure. Where was this?

[Theo Von]

You just come in with a pistol, you're like, oh, my.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, that's not what I meant by clean the place out. I was gonna do it legally.

[Theo Von]

Oh, support the business.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Thank you, dude.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, just clean the place out. Mean, Like, I'm here to up.

[Theo Von]

I think the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that terms have changed over time.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, I didn't. I didn't mean it that way. I apologize. See, this. These are the. These are the mistakes you can make.

[Theo Von]

But thanks for saying you would have stopped by. Dude, that's.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, no, it's. It's a great. How could I not. It's a great store. Maybe you should still put it together.

[Theo Von]

I'll tell you this one day, if I make enough money and I can open up a small place that I could afford to do it on the side. As a thank you to you for coming on the podcast and talking with me, I'll open up a small one near you and I won't. I'll surprise you. I feel like something like that would be pretty special. When it comes to acting. Has your approach to. Has your approach to acting changed over the years? Like, as you notice your own evolution with it and if you get tired of talking about acting, we can talk about something else.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Has my approach. I don't. Maybe. And maybe not. I don't know. I don't. I don't think so. You know, you're definitely more self aware. It's just like you are. Yeah, it's just. It's just like the nature of, of doing something, you know, that's like visible and you're out there for whatever, 30 plus years or whatever.

[Theo Von]

Anymore, maybe 42, but you. Wow, that's a long time. But self aware in the sense where you're like, you know, you. All your. Like, like, do you start to know all the, like the, the palette you have as an actor? Or does that continue to evolve or does some of it get lessened because you're getting older and you can't, you know, I'm saying you couldn't do the same thing. Maybe you could as a, as a 27 year old actor or 21 or 18 year old. Like, does that palette grow or does it dissipate kind of.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I don't know, maybe. Maybe both things. And maybe sometimes it's. Maybe it just gets refined. Maybe just, you know, it's similar. It's just like a richer color or less rich. I don't know what, you know, I don't know what it is. Maybe that's. That's what happens. Hopefully you have a director that also is familiar with your work and can, like, challenge you if. If you're not challenging yourself. But I think like, you know, it's like, I don't know, but I imagine you Know like when you're, you know, it's like you see like 20 year old basketball players coming out and you know, he's just, just going for it, trying to make a name, right? He's just doing the thing and at some point he becomes known, you know, he's suddenly like one of the guys on the team. It's a different kind of pressure of like taking that shot, right? Because it's like when you're young, it's like, oh, it's scary because it's like, oh, if I miss, I don't, maybe I don't get another opportunity. But then when you're older and established, it's like, if I miss, it's gonna be a lot of press about and people are gonna be like, you got paid way too much money to miss that shot.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that dude should not be missing at this point.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Like, get the out, dude.

[Theo Von]

He wasn't even wearing sneakers. Like, what kind of guy do we have here?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So this is. You know what I mean? So I think like, that's what I mean by like being self aware. Like it's. At some point you feel pressure in a different way. Like I think it's always, no matter what, it's always like you always feel the pressure. But yeah, I think when you're 20 years old, it's, it's just, it's, it's, it's just different. And you know, nobody's really looking at you. You know, I don't feel pressure when you walk on, on set, right.

[Theo Von]

So that kind of goes away, but there's a different pressure of like, it's really. These overalls are hanging off my shoulders here.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, I don't understand that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I don't either, actually. I was trying to be like weight of the world on the shoulders. I was thinking of something that goes on shoulders and then overalls came out.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And I'm like, dude, no, no, it was good. You should stick with does. It's a screenplay. I just felt, I just felt stupid. I was like, oh. I also like. Or this is a really cool saying. I don't know it.

[Theo Von]

Are there moments when you're acting where. Because I'll. There's little moments whenever I do stand up where I feel like people that like relatives or something. There'll be a moment where I feel like my brother, my sister. Like there's sometimes where I turn a certain way and it almost feels like my mom. Do you ever feel like you channel, like certain parts of you, like people come out of you in certain moments? I think I notice it more as I get older, too. Does it make any sense to you?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Sure.

[Theo Von]

Like, give her a turn towards your kids and say something. You're like, I am. That was just my dad. Like, that wasn't even me doing that.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, I. I mean, I definitely in my life have a lot of my dad in me.

[Theo Von]

Really? Were you surprised that you got so much of it?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I was. And I think. I think I was, like, the last to know, but it was like, yeah, like that. Like that. And then, like, at some point, I was like, things are saying like, dad, like, those are not good qualities.

[Theo Von]

And so, like, sleeping in his car. Dad. Like, dad. Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right. And so then became aware of it. But no, I think. I think my dad actually, I was aware from fairly young that I think he was probably the greatest influence or I was influenced by his life in my work. I don't know if this is making sense. I think I modeled so many characters that I've played after him. He's. He's dead. He's been dead for a while. So I can talk about him.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. So he can't disagree with you.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. What are you gonna say?

[Theo Von]

And if he is gonna do.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I just, like. Because I was like, I don't. Don't think your dad died up. Make a joke about. And then go. That's even worse. So.

[Theo Von]

No, we weren't sure if he died until you said it. I'll be honest.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You.

[Theo Von]

With. With.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You don't. Don't look it up, because he might not be there. We don't. Clicking, clacking over there.

[Theo Von]

You channel him right now and has turned into him. That would be crazy.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Wow.

[Theo Von]

That's kind of interesting. Yeah. I think. You know what? Sometimes I think I'm like, my mom and I never thought I would be. And I was always even, like, rebellious against my mother. And then I'm like, you got to be. Sometimes I look in the mirror, I'm like, you got to be kidding me. You know? But then at the same time, it's like, that was probably in my life. That was a connection that I wanted the most anyway. So it's interesting that that's what God gave me or that's how it. You know, that, like. Oh. It's like, this is kind of what I always wanted the most. And it's oddly. That's part of the most of what I am, you know?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Just interesting how sometimes things like that work out. Was your dad a funny guy?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

He's very funny. I mean, he was. He was a Ham. Like.

[Theo Von]

Oh, he was.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, like, he loved doing skits for us kids. Really enjoy.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's cool of him.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And like, joking around. Yeah, he's very. Yeah, yeah, he was.

[Theo Von]

And what would he do? Like Death of a Salesman or Death of. I don't know what he did for a job. Death of like a employee somewhere or. No, he would just have fun moments.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

One of his. His favorites which. Which always made us laugh was the. Was something called the fly skit where he just was. Literally, he just was a guy reading a paper on a bench and a fly starts buzzing around and he like waves it away. Then he tries to like hit it with the newspaper. You know, he like rolls it up and like hits it and finally goes in his bag and he takes out some bug spray and he goes to spray it just as it lands on his nose and he sprays himself in the face. And then like just get all up from the. From the bug spray and falls over. And like, when you're like 6 years old, that's the most genius thing you've ever seen. Especially because we didn't have like TV and when I was young, so that was like high level entertainment.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, your dad was the damn History Channel when you were a kid back in the day, you know what I'm saying? Or they were. That's so funny to think about. I never thought of my parents were like the channels that we had, like. Because we had some channels, but it wasn't like that, you know, it wasn't like it. Every moment was access. So really people were looked at as a lot more entertainment. Like, let me go poke this bear and see what I can get him to do a little bit, you know. Oh, that's cool, dude. My dad. Oh, it's so funny, dude. My dad was very old when I was born. He was like. He was born in 1910 or whatever. And so he was like. Everything was very like, you know. And my brother and I would go to. He ran a. The World's Fair was in New Orleans when I was growing up. And he ran a. I don't know if he ran, but somehow he. They let him have the keys to go in there in the morning. And he. It was like a souvenir shop for the World's Fair or postcards, stuff like that in the French Quarter. And he'd always pay this guy, this guy who was a clown, right? He'd be like, go get the kids a couple of wieners or franks, you know, hot dogs. So we'd like. I just Remember, like, one of my early memories is just being with my brother and this clown that my dad had given a couple shackles to, running us down the street to get us a couple of hot dogs. And I was like, oh, it's gonna be a. Interesting road, you know?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So how old were you when he moved on?

[Theo Von]

When he moved on, I was 16.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And I was.

[Theo Von]

It was weird because I was like, embarrassed of my dad because he was older, so I didn't want to introduce him to people. I always had like this weird, weird relationship. But then I think as a kid, it was fascinating to watch this older guy that, that you love so much but you're also trying to keep hidden, you know?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So how when you were 16, I'm going to fail at math. I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying to figure out if that's how my son is going to think of me.

[Theo Von]

Damn, dude.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I was 45 when he was born.

[Theo Von]

Be fine, huh? I think you're going to be okay. It's going to be. Do not get a cane early, though. If you get a cane early, he'll know if you get. I thought about this. I was just thinking about yesterday because I got to knock somebody up in the next two years because I need a family. But if you get a cane early, he's going to know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right. So that's. So I. I basically when I. When I had my first son, I was your age, and. And it is something that I think about constantly, like. And I. Because I just want to be able to be a fun dad and not. And not be this. So did your dad die suddenly? Can I ask you?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's okay, man. Yeah, he got cancer and I didn't even know about cancer that much and. And he died pretty quick. It was pretty sad because suddenly he got like. Yeah, it was just kind of sad. I mean, it's all sad. But then it was, you know, I don't know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Wow.

[Theo Von]

Of course it was sad. When I think we're, you know, everybody was like getting the champagne out. But he was a ridiculous. But my dad couldn't see. He would drive. He would take us somewhere, but he couldn't see the lights or anything. So he'd be like, what to tell is it red or green? And somebody get it wrong? And he'd just drive out. It just. It was all bastard.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

That sounds kind of cool.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I think he would have dug it.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I gotta say. It's gonna dug it. Wow.

[Theo Von]

You would have dug it. Did your dad have cancer or no.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. He did.

[Theo Von]

He did.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

He did. Yeah. And here's something else that's up.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

My sisters lost his ashes. No. Yeah. We just. It's. Every couple months was just somebody will send out a text to the thread being like, has anybody found Dad's ashes? And. And it's because all you could do is laugh because it's horrible. It's just horrible.

[Theo Von]

It's almost really like, his last performance. I mean, that's totally.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

It's. It's a great bit. That's. You're right. It's his best moment.

[Theo Von]

Dad's. Has anybody found. I love that text, too.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You know, just randomly, every once in a while, because it'll occur to one of us, I'll be like, yeah, which. Where the fuck are Dad's asses? He send that out and still don't know. Here's the thing. I mean, I'm blaming my sisters.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Might have been me. I don't know. The thing is, is that it's one of those real, like, you know, sometimes you have a vague memory of, like, I know we were in here.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No idea. I have no idea.

[Theo Von]

Like. Yeah. Do you ever walk in the kitchen, you're like, it's kind of like that thing, like, what was I in here to get? You know, where did. Where did I put those? You know?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, man. Thanks for sharing that. That's funny. I'm glad we even got to laugh about your dad today and my dad. That's cool. I think our. I think, spirits. I think, like, when you laugh about somebody from your, like, life or something like that, I think they feel that on the other side. I think there's, like, a big connection there that we don't know about. A lot of people don't know how many open subscriptions they have. That's why, if you're like me, you need help. And Rocket Money can help. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. I mean, this thing is really like having a secretary. It does so many things for you. And Rocket Money shows you all your expenses and subscriptions in one place. Yep. If you see a subscription you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel it. Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of 500 million. Wow. In canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster. With Rocket money, go to rocket money.com/theo. Today that's rocket money.com t h e o rocketmoney.com theo. You know, the summertime has a lot of side hustles going on. You'll see somebody maybe out there, they out there picking strawberries and selling them or they got them a little lemonade stand over there popping off. And that's all. That's all most new business ideas are in the beginning is a side hustle. And then they start to pick up steam. And that's when you need Shopify. When your side hustle becomes a serious hustle. And any step along the way, Shopify is there when you're ready to roll. Shopify is the best way to get your product into customers hands. It's easy. You can set up an entire store in one day and it's trusted by millions of businesses around the world. Shopify made it easy over the years when my merch shop started out and we had a couple fellas just printing our T shirts over there in Akron and then, then we evolved it and now it's a really. It's a functioning little shop we got going. Thank you for the support. Whether you're just wanting to test an idea out or you're getting serious about launching your own brand, it's never been easier to get started on. Shopify.com/t H E O. That's it. Shopify.com/theo. Take your side hustle and see what you can do. Have you ever met someone and you were like, I could play that person. Like, is that. Because that would be like, kind of like. I feel like if I were an actor, that would be like my power. Like you would corner somebody in a, in a room of a party and like I could play you in a heartbeat.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Huh.

[Theo Von]

You know, does that happen with the good actors?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

All right. You have to ask. Good actors. I think that I. That's what this is called this past weekend.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

How'd you come up with that?

[Theo Von]

Because I just started on a Monday. To be honest, I didn't really.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

That's. That's good.

[Theo Von]

We didn't have a real drawing board there. Mr. Phoenix.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I'm trying to think. I don't know that. I don't know that there's ever been anyone where I was like, I have to, I have to play that. I've been, I've been inspired by like friend. Like I've stolen shit from like friends and people that, that I've met.

[Theo Von]

Oh yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

But I've never, I don't think that I've ever, like. Like I'm going to play.

[Theo Von]

Who, right?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Exactly.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. You get to choose. You're the one who can do it. Yeah, but that's the interesting thing. Yeah. I just wonder if you had that ability. Does that start to get into. Into some people, but then maybe that's like some ego in there too. You play the broken so well, man. You really just have a. I mean, you are just like a harp that is missing some strings, you know? But it's really beautiful to watch a lot of times. Where does that. Why do you think that. Do you get attracted to those roles? It seems like you must in some ways.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. And.

[Theo Von]

Sorry to just kind of like pigeonhole you and your abilities. I know you have a lot of abilities.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I definitely. I don't know why. I guess. Okay, so my dad was. He was. He was a complicated dude and he. There was like a lot of, like. I want to say dichotomy, but I don't even really. I'm not entirely sure if that's. If that's the right thing, but it is like conflict or something. Yeah. And. And, and his. It was really. It was complex or something. Like, very, like, sensitive and sweet and thoughtful about him. And he grew up in a pretty. Pretty tough situation and, you know, was in juvie very young and had this very splintered family background.

[Theo Von]

And, you know, it was like, they're pretty affected.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. Like he, you know, so you'd call like a kicker. You know, he was like, so. But he also was like. He also was like, like a hippie. Was like, you know, was, you know, vegan. Like, so. So I think, like, I was really. I think he was like, so fascinating to. To me growing up, because I think I. I saw the. Those things and then that. That existed inside the same person.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Let's get up and get a salad on.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Exactly.

[Theo Von]

I mean, that's a crazy thing to even think, you know, And I'm sorry to say that just a little bit like day.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No, it's. It's great. It was. It was great and it was perfect and I needed that moment. So I. I think, like, that was really. Again, I think maybe I was. And I, you know, I don't know why, but I think I was attracted to those roles maybe as a way of.

[Theo Von]

Whatever, you know, connection or just.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, just like familiarity, curiosity. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like he was kind of like the most interesting person to me and I probably wanted to like, try and understand him more or something. Maybe or maybe not. I. I don't really know, but. So I think maybe that's. That's part of it. And then I, like. Yeah, I just. I. I love one of those people that whatever. Limited exposure I had to film or television when I was young, I loved, like, drama. Like, I. I loved conflict. I mean, I did. I loved when shit was like, you know, this seems. Don't. It seems very bad. Whatever's about to happen seems very bad. Oh, no, you are a up person. I was up. How could you have done that? I think that that was interesting to me, and I think I also wanted to, like, try to. I think I always was, like, curious. I think I didn't believe that there was, like, like, good people and bad people. So, like, I was, like, interested. Like, okay, well, this is. Somebody made these, like, mistakes or bad decisions. How could that. How could that happen? Like, what are those? What led to that? I think it's just like a curiosity about that maybe.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And then some of it, honestly, straight up, some of it also is like. It's not like I walk in and it's like the full salad bar, and I can choose whatever. There's, like, a full thing. And then they come in. They're like, you have. You can actually just. From here to there, you can have those four options. You go, but what about. They go, no, no, you don't. That's not for you. So part of it is, like, get in where you fit in, right? Part of it is, like, I had a face that just oftentimes looks criminal. From, like, very, very young age. I noticed that, like, when I went into the fucking store with my friends, I was the one that was followed around by security. They, like, were like. And I didn't understand why, but at some point, I think I kind of realized I was like, oh, okay. So I'm gonna. I'm getting these. These parts.

[Theo Von]

And, like, yeah, I'm the guy in the master.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, or, you know, playing Skeletor in the he man commercial. Not He Man.

[Theo Von]

Like, oh, this is kind of interesting. Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I mean, so part of it is, like, that's just also the reality, right? And there's things where you're like, oh, but I can do that. I want to do that. And they're like, no, you can't. And in some ways, maybe they're right. There's also, like, a point where you're like, okay, how do I. How do I achieve that thing that I'm chasing there in this. In this Thing. Like, maybe that's the better route for me. Like, maybe that's the more honest thing. And, like, I'm chasing an idea that I think that somebody maybe has of me as an actor, and I want to dispel that.

[Theo Von]

No.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

What do you. Who. That's not what's important. But maybe it's valuable to, like, chase that quality. But through this. This character's experience.

[Theo Von]

That's fascinating, dude. Like the joker. Yeah. Like, I could totally see exactly what you're talking about. Like, and I'll think a lot of times in life we have this. We're chasing an idea. Idea of ourselves or a projection that we thought someone else had of us. Or even just the. The archetype. I can't even freaking remember that word, dude, from freaking science or whatever. The archetype of what we think something is, you know, like the high school quarterback or the prom queen. And for our whole life, we're like, instead of being like, well, why don't I just put on this comfortable shoe that fits? Or why don't I try to be the quarterback? But he's in the school play and he doesn't have a football. Right.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And he's a. Lives in a dungeon or whatever, and he has.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. Because it's probably good to, like, challenge yourself and challenge expectations, right? To not just go like, oh, I guess I'm just that. And I'll just be that. Right. Like, there was. I think I did have an ambition, but really my ambition was about, like, an experience. I felt like I don't want. I don't want my experience to be limited. Like, that's not. That's not fair that I don't want to just play this role in this way. Like, that's. I, like, I want. My appetite was bigger than that. Like, it was bigger than, I think, what I was, what I was told. I remember. I remember, like, I remember when I was young, I remember doing this movie and that one of the other actor was talking to the director and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if, you know, Joaquin did, you know this kind of movie? You know, kind of like so and so. And he mentioned this other actor that was like my peer who was like, like, the actor, right? And the director was like, yeah, but I mean, Joaquin is no so and so. Like, and. And he was like. And. And the other doctor was like, dude, that's so up to say the director was like, oh, no, no. I just. I mean that in the best way. Like, you're a character actor.

[Theo Von]

There's no Fred Armisen. Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

It's like. It's like, kind of code for, like, you can't really. Like, you're never gonna really get there, but you'll work. And. And that pissed me off. But here's the thing. But it pissed me off because I was like, no, I. I have more. Like, that's not. There's more that will come out. That will come out of me. And I just. But I think I ultimately appreciate it because it made me go, like, well, how do I find that way? Like, how do I find more? And. And, yeah, I'm not going to be able to get in this door. And like, yeah, I shouldn't play the quarterback. Like, it doesn't make sense. Like, if I walked out, then you're going like, well, unless it's like, yeah.

[Theo Von]

The defense is going to be on the field a lot. Yeah, it's this guy. So quarterback, it's gonna be.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Unless it's like, some 80s school comedy, like, kids comedy, where, like, they're a disaster.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

You know, maybe that. Maybe that version of it.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Or unless they, like, siphon in a unique quarterback from another realm, kind of.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right. And his thing is, by the way, let's not give away too much, because maybe this is something we should. We should work on.

[Theo Von]

But. No, I. I think there was something else you said in there, and I forgot what it was a second ago, but it was really profound about. Or it was as profound as people can be in a motel somewhere, but with a hotel. You're right, actually.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Well, just because in case there.

[Theo Von]

No, you're right. You're right. I don't want them being upset. This is a very famous hotel where a lot of important people have overdosed. Do. And that is true. We're at the Chelsea Hotel, and it is very unique and fun. This is a great place to be whenever you're in New York City. I think you're tricking me now. Set me up.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I didn't set you up at all. No, I for real had paranoia, and I was like, I don't want to be the person who's talking about them. And. But Motel Chelsea, it kind of sounds dope, to be honest.

[Theo Von]

Motel Chelsea?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it sounds like.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

It sounds better than a Hotel Chelsea.

[Theo Von]

Oh. It sounds like somebody my dad met. You know what I'm saying? That's a problem, too, dude.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Sorry. So, anyways, no, it's all fun, but.

[Theo Von]

I think you said exactly what you wanted to say there, and I think it's interesting. Yeah. Because I think it pertains just even outside of acting. Is how come we do more how or like, how can I find a way to apply myself to this thing? How do I adjust? Like, what is a new way to do something if I want to get to my goal and if it's even going to be possible? Is there another route? Right. Like rerouting. When your app says that, it's kind of like that. Which I think is something that people do when they are. When they really have a goal that they want to try and attain. You know, I just think it's interesting.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. It's like. Of. Of. Of course. Right. Resistance. Right. Like, it's like resistance is. Is important. And, you know, just reading, like. Just been reading about dinosaurs my kid. And. And you're like, oh, were like, hold on, there's a very large dinosaur. It's got big teeth. It's nasty, it's mean. And what do I do? I'm just. I'm. I'm a vegetarian dinosaur. What do I do? And just like, evolution is like, oh, you start growing spikes out of your back or horns and. And just like, it's a reaction to the environment. Those. It took millions of years to, like, react to change and to evolve. And so sometimes when you're like, oh, yeah, the director was mean to me. He says only me. Like, okay, well, it's nothing comparative comparatively. Right. So it's just. Yeah. I think kind of meeting the challenge in some ways, like trying to get to a place of appreciating the resistance.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And reacting to the resistance. I don't know what I'm saying, but.

[Theo Von]

I think it's fascinating to think how badass a fucking vegan or vegetarian a fucking brontosaurus was.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Brontosaurus is big. That. That was the solution. It just got like, bigger.

[Theo Von]

Who was the biggest vegetarian dinosaur? Let's give them a little bit of shine here, you know, And I'm sure Josh Brolin will get to play them in a movie, but we won't.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

This is the bronze.

[Theo Von]

Oh, the dreadnought us. Look at that limousine.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Have not read about him.

[Theo Von]

How.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Because you.

[Theo Von]

How long have you been a vegan for? Vegetarian. Vegan.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Vegan. Since I was three or four or three and a half years old.

[Theo Von]

That's just been a whole part of your life.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know what I do, like, sometimes radishes.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, I just. I just had some. You know, I just made it yesterday. May radishes and jalapenos together. Fantastic. Lemon, salt.

[Theo Von]

I like having some salt and water. I like Fasting. Recently, I've been doing it a lot.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Have you?

[Theo Von]

And I really love. What.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

What did you do?

[Theo Von]

Just. Nothing.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Just water?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, just water and a little bit of salt. Put some salt in your hand. But you even look forward to the salt. I would even go to the gym, right?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, wait, you went to the gym?

[Theo Von]

I would go to the gym. I get home, like, when I get home, I'm having my pinch of salt.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

How long do you fast for?

[Theo Von]

73 hours is the longest that I did so far, but I'll just do a day. Like, I did, like, 36 hours the other day, I think. I feel like I'm doing, like, a day, a week now. 24.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, it's great. It's good for you. But are you sure you're. You should work out while you're doing it?

[Theo Von]

No, I'm not sure.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, maybe look into that. I don't know, but I remember doing that, and then I didn't feel good, and maybe it was that.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I want to ask you one more question before you leave, because I feel like we've had a nice conversation, so I don't want to push the bounds of it.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, push it. It's okay. You can do whatever you want, man. It's fine.

[Theo Von]

Do you feel like. Do you. Did you like being a son? Is that a weird question?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Did I like biggest son?

[Theo Von]

Because I never thought about. I just thought about it, like, as we're sitting here thinking about that we were both, you know, that we have that in common or a lot of people.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Siblings.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I got three siblings, one boy and two girls.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, well, I was the second son, and. And my brother was, like, quite a force and was definitely, like. I don't know, was like, mythical or Shakespearean or, you know, maybe it's because he died or something, but he's like, you know, he was like the first son, and he was. And he was. He was incredible. And he was such a force within our family. Was kind of like the. The. The. The guiding light in some ways is when they acted first. And we used to sing on the streets, and he played guitar and kind of like, over.

[Theo Von]

He's like a lead singer.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

He was the lead singer, and he was the guitarist and kind of oversaw everybody. And he. And he was such a. Like a. A strong but gentle force within the family. So I think in some ways, if I'm honest, a lot of my life, like, growing up, I kind of was like, you know, like, right.

[Theo Von]

What am I going to do?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. Look at it like, you're like. And not. Not a way of like. Oh, this sucks. Just kind of like.

[Theo Von]

No. Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Like, cool. Like feel secure.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Shit's handled.

[Theo Von]

That's like.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. I got three sisters and. And they're also like, amazing and. And strong in the best way. And like, you know, forces like, each of them just brilliant. And. And I probably. Yeah. For, like. Yeah. I don't know that I. You know, I just. I didn't. I never. I never felt any weight or pressure about, like, being, you know, son or anything like that. You know, maybe it falls on the.

[Theo Von]

First child a lot. I never thought about that.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I'm. I'm sure. And I don't know if it fell on him or if he just, like, took it. Yeah. I mean, sometimes. Sometimes it's just. Just like.

[Theo Von]

Like I'm. Look at the two of us. I'm the son sometimes, you know, he's working freelance over here.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Okay. Like, that's. It's kind of the truth. Right? And there was no, like, I never, you know, we also. There was like a four year age difference between us, so I never. I never felt those things. Like, you know, in movies there's like, the brothers are, like, competing and, like, angry. Oh, yeah. Like Shakespearean brother. That's funny. You didn't intend that to be funny.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I did not intend that to be funny.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Really?

[Theo Von]

Yes. Our brothers. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I'm trying to think of other brothers.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Anyways, this is good.

[Theo Von]

Jackson 5.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Maybe this is a good. That's good.

[Theo Von]

But that's interesting. Yeah. I don't know. I was just thinking about being a son because I never really even thought about it myself that much. But, yeah, if you have that brother, you kind of have that get out of jail free brother. You know, you're like, oh, this son. This guy's got that dude, he's a lead singer. I'll be back here, you know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. Are you or what?

[Theo Von]

I'm the second, bro. Yeah. I'm the second son. My brother was kind of like went awol, so I was like, oh, I gotta pick up. I gotta, like, I gotta do some recycling here, you know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right.

[Theo Von]

He's great now, but he was just like, kind of like rogue, you know? He was like more of like a pro, like troublemaker or just like lost. That's what I mean. He was like a lost.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Right?

[Theo Von]

Like a lost guy. But now he's great. And now he's like my hero. He's like, you know, it's cool to like, be able to still be like, in like, that everything changes over time.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

What's the age difference?

[Theo Von]

Two years. But yeah, he's like a bray. What do I admire about him? He has a lot of empathy and he's good for, like, being patient with me. Yeah. It's like he has time for me. Right. And that was something that I think growing up in our place, it was just like, I never. I didn't even know it was possible, you know? But, yeah, he, like, he makes time for me. He makes time for me.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And I think that that's pretty special.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

That's good.

[Theo Von]

You know, one thing that you guys talked about in Eddington was like, whose land it is. Right. That was like a little bit of a theme. It was kind of a sub theme. I felt like, with the Native American, and you guys were like, the county or the township butted up against native lands. Where do you feel like. Like, it's kind of so weird where we are in the world right now, because I feel like people are still warring over lands. You know, you think that's. And, like, there's ice raids, like, people are getting taken off of lands and, like, you know, I don't know, I just feel like sometimes I thought we'd be further along in this.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

I don't really know Westerns, but I think that that's like, a common thing in Westerns. At least that's the. That's the feeling I have when I think about Westerns. It might not be, but just like, the idea of, like, this is my land and I'm the protector of this land, and I will fight for this land. And so I think that is something that comes up in Addington, and I think that both kind of both figures, both the sheriff, Joe Cross and the mayor, Ted, played by Pedro Pascal, both believe that they're, like, fighting for the land, fighting for this town, and that their. That their idea for this land is. Is the right one. Yeah, I was really moved by something that. That you said when you. You talked about the war in Gaza, and I think that's really courageous to. To speak about it. And you spoke about it, like, in such a, like, honest way that I just thought was, like, really beautiful. And. And it's crazy because, like, what's going on is absolutely so fucking horrible. There's no justification for children starving. Starving to death in a conflict. Like, it's that simple. Right. You don't have to understand geopolitics or anything like that just to. To get that. I know there are conflicts all over the world constantly, but that's something that is. I'm just. It's. It's shocking, like, how maybe we're afraid to talk about it. And oftentimes you're made to feel like you're stupid because you don't understand geopolitics. You kind of like, well, I have to understand geopolitics. Like, you have to understand, like, human rights. Yeah, basically.

[Theo Von]

Feeling. It feels like to me, you know, for me, I don't know. I don't care about. I don't know if I care about geo. I mean, but it's hard to say. I live on a land that's kind of been taken from other people, but here I am saying, like, about geopolitics, and I understand that, but then at what point do you not say something, you know, like, yeah, and we're in a time and just like in Eddington kind of like. And I'm not comparing, like, any of these two things, but people are watching things on their phones and you can see for the first time some of this, like, travesty in real time. And it just hurts, man. It's like. And then you're like, am I crazy for not saying anything? But then here we are on a land where, you know, people are living in allotments now, Native American allotments, and that sort of, you know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. And that's. That's a great deal of pressure. And, and just honestly, just you saying that makes me feel like, you know, under pressure. So, like, okay, yeah, what, you know, what am I, what am I talking about? But I think sometimes not acknowledging it is. Is wrong. Obviously, I don't have the solution, but war always sucks, right? That conflict sucks. But what's happening, it just is. Is crazy. Crazy to me. Just like, just the food distribution that's happening now in Gaza, they're locking.

[Theo Von]

They're like, hiding it from people or that they're tricking people or that they're. They have to go so far to get it, it seems.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And why is it, like, why is it not the, the organizations that are typically overseeing that and have, you know, half a century of experience or decades of experience doing the different NGOs, and they're not the ones that are overseeing the food distribution. It's a. It's a new organization, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. And so that is, yeah, just really troubling and, and heartbreaking. So it just feels like, how do we not acknowledge that? And, you know, in some way. And so. And I think that you did. And I, I, like, I don't know, like, when you did that if you were, like, if that made you nervous doing it or.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I think I felt scared.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. Well, I was. It was. I think that it was. It was courageous and it was meaningful, and I think it matters. And. And so, you know, I'm. I'm straight up, I'm really here today because I was. I was so moved by what. By what you said and just, like, the courage to do that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I was wondering why you came. To be honest. To be very honest. In some ways or not. Not in some ways, but. But thank you, man. I can't even believe that you saw that. And. Yeah, not thank you, but, like. Yeah, I think that should just, like. I don't know. It's just like. It's crazy to think, like, I'm laying in bed at night and I'm warm and I'm okay, and to think that there's, like. Like some kid who's never going to put these pieces together, you know? And even the kids who have to be alive are the people who still have to be alive. What life do they have, you know? Like what? Like, I don't know. It makes me like. I don't know. And then you start to feel ashamed of your own existence. In some ways.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I don't know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You almost feel ashamed to be alive in some ways. In a little bit of a way. Does it make any sense, you think?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, I understand the feeling.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

It's a feeling. I totally understand that. That feeling, but.

[Theo Von]

But thank you, man. Thank you for. Well, yeah, not thank you, but. Yeah. I don't know. It's interesting, you know, but I think it's important today that we. That you do say something like you say, you know, and not to think that this isn't affecting people, you know, I think. Yeah. That we're human beings. We absorb what's going on, you know, and we watch the actors that are out there in the world and it affects us, it affects children. What are kids doing or seeing those things on TikTok? What happens to their brains and stuff, you know? Yeah. So. But no, I'm grateful to be able to be in a place today and in a country where we can still say something, you know, and it's not mandated by some other power, and who knows if that's coming soon or what's happening?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So do you have some inside information?

[Theo Von]

I have nothing.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Okay. I thought you were looking at me like you knew some shit. Okay, well, that's good.

[Theo Von]

Is there. You know, I was thinking the other day I missed Philip Seymour Hoffman. I Missed him. I miss his acting. Is there somebody that you miss like they're acting or like a Philip Seymour Hoffman? I'm trying to think. Michael Landon. I miss. He did Little House on the Prairie yesterday.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And then. And then was the Heaven highway to Heaven.

[Theo Von]

It was highway with Victor French. God.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Because I think that was one that I tried out for several times.

[Theo Von]

You're lying.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

No, I'm sure. I'm sure.

[Theo Von]

God.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, it's definitely. It's definitely in my memory, but that was one of the shows when I was a kid that was. That was popular. Yeah, dude, he.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, he was something special. He was a really special.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So he was this. What's happening?

[Theo Von]

Oh, in between.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

What's this thing here? Says 1984. And then rip. What is that?

[Theo Von]

Well, apparently he took the highway to heaven. He was in the HOV lane in that picture. You know, that's all we can do anyway.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Hey. Hey, listen, you're going. You're going back out on the road, right?

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Is. Is it fun or is it grueling?

[Theo Von]

It. It was fun. Like, I think like I'm ready to stop doing this hour material. It's changed a lot. It's like probably 60 different than when I started. So it's evolved a lot and adjusted. But I am to. I am. I'll be happy to get it done when I feel like we've gone to all the places that we can and like kind of, you know, you want everybody to have a chance to see it if they want. But I'll be happy to have a chance for my brain to settle down and not always have to feel like I have to go do this thing every other week or every couple of weeks, which is a blessing, but still it's like just this thing on the calendar. It's almost like you're always having to take a vacation and so I'll be happy when. Then that. When that's done. So I can see what else do I want to think about and do like, you know, we like. I work with this group called Valor that does like sex and love addiction, intimacy disorder, stuff like that. So I want to like, just have. Just have a little bit more time to do stuff that's not just focused on myself maybe, I guess. I don't know.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

So it sounds. I. I imagine it would be nerve wracking. I can't imagine having to do that.

[Theo Von]

Really?

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah, yeah. Like getting up. Like getting up. Yeah, like standing. It's like just standing makes. That makes me nervous. And then. But then you walk around, you Have a microphone and you say. And you could do, man.

[Theo Von]

Dude, I'll tell you, this is. I think this is the only way to end this is just these. These boots were made for Joaquin. Okay. So I think we have to.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Perfect.

[Theo Von]

Dude, thank you so much. Thank you for spending time with me today. Thank you for thinking with me today. And. And I just appreciate it. It was nice of you. And, yeah, you just do a great job of, like, being able to, like, you know, create things that the rest of us can't to make us feel. And so that's a gift that you have, and. And I feel lucky that you have it. And so thank you for just bearing that gift.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Oh, man. Thank you. That's.

[Theo Von]

Well, thank you.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Thank you. It's just too. I know. I just get embarrassed, and I could. I just want to go. I want to dissect everything you're saying that's nice about me and tell you why you're wrong.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

But I won't do that. And look, let's just thank motel Chelsea here for this. Epic.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Sweet. Here.

[Theo Von]

And cheers to our dads, man. They're out there. Cheers to those guys.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Dude, we don't. My dad. We don't know where he is still, so that's. We're not sure.

[Theo Von]

Okay. Somewhere tbd, guys.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

Yeah. You know, good luck. I hope you find your way.

[Theo Von]

Now I'm just falling on the breeze.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone oh but.

[Theo Von]

When I reach that ground I'll share.

[Joaquin Phoenix]

This peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones but it's gonna take.