#663 - Porn Recovery Coach Steven Wolt

Summary

This Past Weekend with Theo Von

Episode #663: Porn Recovery Coach Steven Wolt
Released: June 19, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this deeply intimate and honest episode, Theo Von sits down with his longtime friend, mentor, and porn recovery coach, Steve Wolt, founder of Valor Recovery. Together, they unpack the complex realities of pornography addiction, its effects on intimacy and masculinity, the role of shame, and the journey of recovery. The conversation includes candid stories from both men, detailed insights into the neuroscience and cultural factors fueling addiction, and practical approaches for those seeking help. The episode is rich with vulnerability, humor, real-life recovery stories, and actionable advice for anyone struggling or supporting someone through porn and intimacy disorders.

---

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Steve’s Story: From Addiction to Recovery

Timestamps: 02:41-16:50

• Steve’s addiction began after getting internet in his NYC apartment (late 90s), quickly escalating from recreational porn use to compulsive behavior.
  • "When I watched porn, that fog of depression that kind of hovered over me much of my life lifted." – Steve (03:42)
• He describes porn as a "gateway drug" that led to other compulsive sexual behaviors and emotional dysfunction.
• Porn offered him escape from anxiety, loneliness, and low self-worth, but bred shame and double life.
• The cycle of escalation: seeking more extreme categories, risking at work, losing control, negative impact on partner.
  • "Pornography robbed me of my manhood... it brought up so much shame and that shame was so debilitating in my life." – Steve (11:40)
• Recovery began at his lowest point; the formula was perseverance, support systems, and gradual change.

2. The Role of Porn in Intimacy and Relationships

Timestamps: 10:24–22:02, 29:06–34:52, 46:31–53:09

• Abuse of porn erodes sensuality and intimacy: less real connection, more mechanical encounters.
  • "Pornography abuse literally burns off the nerve endings of sensuality in relationships." – Steve (10:35)
• Steve describes how porn was not just a problem, but a maladaptive solution to avoid his deepest emotional discomforts and difficulties connecting to others.
• Many men (and women) use porn to self-soothe, numb, or avoid vulnerability in real relationships.
• Modern accessibility (smartphones) exacerbates the issue; temptation and triggers are always at hand.
  • "Could you imagine having to walk around all day long with a pocket full of cocaine and not do it?... What do you think it's like with these guys that have their drug of choice in their hand on their phone?" – Steve (21:14)
• The importance of learning to regulate one’s own emotions and tolerating discomfort/boredom.
  • "Recovery is not about stopping a behavior. Recovery is about building a life you don’t need to escape from." – Steve (17:19)

3. Neuroscience, Triggers, and Why Porn Addiction is So Difficult

Timestamps: 22:02–33:14, 86:10–90:44

• Porn hijacks the brain’s reward/motivation system, with dopamine spikes from anticipation and scrolling ("the addiction is to the scroll," not the content itself).
• Withdrawal can bring irritability, anxiety, flat mood — not just a bad habit but a rewired nervous system in need of new ways to self-soothe.
• Common triggers: stress, boredom, loneliness, unstructured time (especially late at night), social media encounters, and easy phone access.
  • "Men don’t plan to fail, they fail to plan." – Steve (86:54)
• Solutions: establishing new physical, emotional, and social habits, planning for trigger times, leaving the phone out of the bedroom, engaging with community.

4. The War on Masculinity and Sexuality

Timestamps: 53:09–67:00

• Men today are deeply affected by shame, loneliness, cultural narratives about masculinity, and often lack confidence and role models.
  • "Pornography abuse is emasculating our men today." – Steve (53:09)
• Healthy masculinity is redefined: honesty, integrity, vulnerability, courage, service.
  • "Masculinity to me is... honesty, integrity, vulnerability, courage, being a protector, being a provider, being a great friend, showing up for others and living a life that's bigger than just yours." – Steve (62:33)
• Porn use fosters objectification of women, warps expectations, and can even impact men’s perceptions of women in their lives, including mothers.
• Modern porn includes troubling themes (incest, power dynamics) pushing boundaries and distorting relational values.
  • "They're taking the most valuable relationships that have been given to us...and they're trying to manipulate those so that they don't have value to us other than some sexual perversion." – Theo (70:42)

5. Breaking the Cycle: Practical Recovery

Timestamps: 55:39–90:44

• Community is essential: men need other men to heal, share, and model vulnerability.
  • "I believe that recovery is a team sport. I think men need other men to become better men." – Steve (57:29)
• Key practices:
  • Therapy, coaching, and 12-step meetings
  • Measuring recovery not just by abstinence, but by building positive habits (exercise, socializing, new hobbies)
  • Consistent honesty, vulnerability, and reframing one’s life purpose.
• Recovery replaces shame and secrecy with joy of living, intimacy, and real connection—not just absence of a behavior.

6. Valor Recovery: Mission and Methods

Timestamps: 98:12–101:31

• Valor Recovery is a virtual program specializing in porn and sexual compulsivity, leveraging small group coaching, shared experience, and practical tools.
• Focus on accountability, skill-building, and replacing maladaptive coping with genuine connection and new routines.
  • "Men heal best in community as it relates to sexual compulsivity." – Steve (57:59)
• Staff are in long-term recovery themselves—offering lived empathy and unique insight.

7. Broader Q&A & Listener Calls

Timestamps: 116:20–133:12

• Can addictions jump from one behavior to another? Yes; overlaps between alcohol, drugs, and porn addiction are frequent, and harm reduction is sometimes the first step.
• Can men really change? Absolutely, but it takes honest desire and proactive action, often initiated through pain or loss ("gift of desperation").
• Is masturbation healthier than cheating? Maybe less harmful, but still a possible maladaptive escape—real health comes when underlying avoidance is addressed.
• The value of pain: Use it as leverage for change rather than letting it become deadening or wasted.
  • "Pain is the cornerstone of spiritual growth." – Steve (135:39)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the progression:
  "I started watching different types of porn, categories I didn’t even know existed...eventually porn outside of my sexual orientation...for me, it brought up so much shame and that shame was so debilitating." – Steve (07:33)
• On the failing of just abstinence:
  "If you truly want to transcend this compulsion, you have to build a life that’s more enjoyable, more purposeful, than the life you were living, or else you’re going to be vulnerable to returning to it." – Steve (18:14)
• On the importance of laughter:
  "Laughter is so good for the soul, man. You read the news right now, it's so heavy. Finding a place to be lighthearted, to have fun and to laugh is so healing." – Steve (67:40)
• On triggers and coping:
  "Leave the phone. Don’t bring the phone in the bedroom...Men don’t plan to fail. They fail to plan." – Steve (86:32)
• On hope and recovery:
  "Anybody can do it as long as you don’t quit before the miracle happens." – Steve (138:52)
• On sensitivity and recovery:
  "My sensitivity today is a superpower because it allows me to have empathy and to feel your experiences in pain...Where did we learn how to be vulnerable?" – Steve (125:54)

---

Recovery Resources and Takeaways

• Resources Shared:

  • Valor Recovery (virtual program): [valorrecovery.com]
  • 12 Step Groups: Sexaholics Anonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous, Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous, etc.
  • Seek therapists specializing in sexual compulsivity/recovery.
  • Free Zoom meetings are available—anonymity and observation-only are options.

• Core messages:

  • You’re not alone—many struggle, regardless of gender or background.
  • Community, accountability, and self-compassion beat willpower alone.
  • The goal isn’t just stopping bad habits, but building a purposeful, connected, joy-filled life.
  • Progress is possible at any age, any stage.
    • "It’s not a death sentence. You can absolutely get better and live the life you’ve dreamed of. But you have to reach out." – Steve (103:15)

---

Timestamps for Critical Segments

• 02:17 – Steve’s first experience with internet pornography
• 11:24 – Impact on relationships and sexual dysfunction
• 21:14 – The challenge of recovery in the age of smartphones
• 29:25 – Porn as an intimacy disorder, not just sexual symptoms
• 33:24 – Addressing shame and relapse in recovery
• 41:53 – Young men and sexual dysfunction linked to porn
• 53:09 – Impact on masculinity/societal consequences
• 62:24 – Laughter, community, and healthy masculinity
• 84:00 – Importance of vulnerability and resources
• 86:10 – Triggers and practical coping strategies
• 98:12 – Valor Recovery’s approach
• 116:20 – Listener calls and real world advice

---

Final Words & Action Steps

Theo and Steve urge anyone struggling—and those who love them—not to remain silent or alone. Recovery is a journey, not an event. If you have been hurt by addiction, shame, or disconnection, there are people, programs, and communities ready to help, and healing is possible for anyone who doesn't quit before the miracle.

• "The only way nothing will improve is doing nothing." – Steve (120:51)
• "Don't give up before the miracle happens." – Steve (138:52)
• Links to all discussed programs and resources can be found in the episode notes.

---

For more, visit Valor Recovery, look into local or online 12-step meetings, or reach out to a trusted advisor or therapist with experience in sexual health and recovery.

Transcript

[Theo Vaughn]

Today's guest is a certified coach and a founder of Valor Recovery. It's a recovery program that focuses on porn addiction. Pornography addiction, intimacy disorders, commitment disorders, A whole gamut of stuff in there. There's a lot of things when it comes to emotional connection. He and I have known each other for years. He's a dear friend of mine. He's been a mentor. He's been a guide, and at times, he's been a hero. I'll say that this episode isn't really for children. If you have children, maybe in the back seat or something. You know, it might. I mean, it might. It's not graphic, but it's just. I don't know, just, you know, I hope this episode reaches who it reaches. I would like to say that I had a great chat today with my guest and friend, Mr. Steve Walt.

[Steve Walt]

Song I've been singing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Thank you, bro.

[Steve Walt]

Thanks for coming.

[Interjecting Friend]

I love you.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, I love you, too, bro. Been a long time. I know you.

[Theo Vaughn]

I know. It has been a long time, man. For some of you guys who don't know, today's guest is my friend Steve Walt, who is. Who started a program called Valor Recovery, and it's a recovery program for men who have suffered with pornography addiction. Is that pretty much the safe way to say it, Steve?

[Steve Walt]

That's a good way to say it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Okay, cool. And thank you so much, dude. I love the work that you do. Thank you for, like, you know, you've been a guiding light in my life and just a partner in crime and, you know, in positive crime, and. And, yeah, I just want to, like, we start. We met in recovery rooms, right?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, a long time ago.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, we met above the bank over there. We're going to recovery rooms in the Palisades.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

I didn't suffer from porn addiction, but I did. I have dealt with that, like, parts of that. And I have, like, you know, had, like, intimacy disorder, like, commitment issues, that sort of thing, you know, which. Those meetings cover all of that. Your recovery started with drugs and alcohols?

[Steve Walt]

It did. I mean, I was one of those kind of men that kind of struggled with a lot of stuff. But, you know, as you look back, I definitely think pornography was the culprit.

[Theo Vaughn]

Really?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, I do. You know, I think pornography was this kind of gateway drug that led me to a lot of dark places.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. I'd love to hear your experience, strength, and hope today. Just take us kind of on your. Your journey. This is what people do in meetings a lot. They'll share their experience, strength, and hope. And your Journey with, like, intimacy, sex addiction, pornography addiction, et cetera. Is that okay?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, it's great. And so, you know, I think it started for me in the late 90s. You know, I was living in New York City, working in financial services. From all outward appearances, like, doing great in life. You know, I remember moving kind of my first nice apartment and 32nd floor of a building. I'd work so hard for this, right? Like, my goodness, A walk up. No, no, I wasn't. A walk up. 32 floors is a long way to walk.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve Walt]

But what I do remember within a few weeks is getting the Internet in my apartment for the first time. Pretty cool, right? People could do research, they could do a lot of things with the Internet. Like, not this guy. I mean. I mean, I use the Internet for porn. And so really, for the first time in my life, I had, like, unlimited access to pornography. And I'll tell you what, when I watched porn, it lit me up like a Christmas tree. When I watched porn, that fog of depression that kind of hovered over me much of my life lifted.

[Theo Vaughn]

Really?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, 100%.

[Theo Vaughn]

I can kind of relate a little bit what you're talking about. Like, there's something else with it that feels very addictive.

[Steve Walt]

You know, there's a euphoria to it.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's what I'm saying.

[Steve Walt]

I mean, it works just like, worked just like a drug for me. Right. That anxiety I felt, that kind of loneliness that was so profound vanished when I watched porn. So, you know, I watch porn to really numb difficult emotions. And it worked. It worked really, really well.

[Theo Vaughn]

And were you using it like. I mean, were you just kind of, like, using it once a day or was like. I mean, was there an actual, like, heavy use of it? Or you were. It was just like this outlet that was. That you knew that was there.

[Steve Walt]

You know, it started off as an outlet, but then things started to change. You know, this is long before we had cell phones that had pornography. So this is on a laptop in my home. And what I noticed was this progression. I started watching porn for longer lengths of time with more frequency. I kind of needed porn. You know, there were nights I'd be watching porn throughout most of the evening.

[Theo Vaughn]

What?

[Steve Walt]

I'd go for hours.

[Theo Vaughn]

Wow.

[Steve Walt]

And, you know, I'd wake up or, like, come to in the morning, like, disgusted with myself. Oh, yeah, disgusted. I'm never doing this again. I would actually have multiple times. I would get the laptop and I would throw it down the garbage chute on the 32nd floor in absolute disgust. But you Know, a few days later, I'd be back in the computer store telling this poor guy that we have a growing business and we need more technology. Little thing. I know I was throwing my computer away. Cause I couldn't stop watching porn on it.

[Theo Vaughn]

The guy's like, dude, too bad they don't have an Olympic event for guys who are sick of watching porn on their laptops. That would be so much further than discus, I think, you know, 100%. But, dude, that's crazy. Crazy. Imagine like, some guy is just like some little R2D2 human in there. Is like, what, another one?

[Steve Walt]

Another one. Steve's got a very successful business. He's hiring. He needs a lot. He needs computers.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, dude, that's so crazy, dude. I do remember, like, when I was a kid. Is it if I interjected.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, please.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. And just to share, man, like, yeah, I remember, like, when I was a kid, they had one. Some fella had pornos at his house. He had magazines. And we'd had. Somebody had chiseled some tits into the wood into a tree near our home and stuff like that. And we had that when I was young. And people would show up to that. Like, it was some, like. Kind of like a, you know, some mahogany chest. Mecca or something. You know, people would make the pilgrimage to see that in the woods. Yeah, yeah. But at one point, I had a. I found. I had a buddy and his dad had some porno magazines. And, dude, I remember once I'd seen those, I would bike across town on the weekends to go and. To go to their home. And I would kind of loiter around the house until there was an opportunity to go see them. And one weekend, I even broke into their. Like, broke into a window. I didn't break the glass. That's crazy. But I did.

[Steve Walt]

That would have been too much.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, you would have crossed the line.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

But I snuck in to. And I didn't realize it at the time. It was just like. I didn't even realize that I was doing it. But when I later looked back at it, it was like. Oh, it just. Like there was something. There was a comforting thing, or there was, like this addiction that. Anyway, go on, man. So you had. You had taken these computers in.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. And, you know, it was just a sign that I was really struggling with this. I couldn't stop. And, you know, there was such a progression to this, you know, even, like, taking more risk on where I'd watch porn. I'd watch it in the office on my work computer, which is kind of Insane when you think about it. Yeah. And you know, I'd start watching different types of porn, you know, categories I didn't even know existed.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

You go down the left hand side of that porn category after category after category. And for me, you know, I started gravitating towards like fetish porn and then eventually porn outside of my sexual orientation. And I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know why this was so intoxicating and why I couldn't stop. And the problem was wrong with that type of porn, but for me, it brought up so much shame and that shame was so debilitating in my life. And so it was really a painful experience. You know, this was a long time ago, so there wasn't information around that there wasn't a place to go and talk about this stuff. So, you know, I just had this kind of really horrible feeling. I was engaging in a behavior that didn't feel like it was in alignment with my values and I was suffering.

[Theo Vaughn]

Man. I'm sorry to hear, I'm sorry to hear that, man. I know that we've, we've talked about this kind of a lot and, and I've heard you share before and. But anytime somebody says that they're that like they feel a lot of shame, like, it just really resonates with me, man. You know, I felt a lot of that in my life is just shame for different things, you know, it's so

[Steve Walt]

powerful and you can't stop.

[Theo Vaughn]

And you said, this sounds like a long time ago, man. I've had friends that I've talked to this week.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

That. It's the same, it's the same story. Yeah, man, I, I can relate to like looking at pornography and the, just the shade, the horror you feel after. But then you still need something, but then like it kind of wears off or you get out of that shame and then you're again are looking for something that'll kind of give you a feeling. Something makes me feel good about myself or I'm not having, I'm not dating well, or I'm afraid of women, anything, whatever's going on. And then you find yourself back there.

[Steve Walt]

Well, you know, it's interesting. The ease and accessibility of porn today anyway make it so easy to regulate your emotions with it, right? You just think about how you're able to really avoid discomfort.

[Theo Vaughn]

Like, what do you mean exactly avoid it?

[Steve Walt]

Avoid it? Because here's the deal, right? If you're feeling anxious, you watch porn, you feel temporarily calm. Right. You're feeling bored. You watch porn, you feel some stimulation, you're feeling lonely, you watch porn, you feel artificial connection. So porn, for me, can actually affect and change my mood. So why is that a bad thing? Right? And so because porn can work in the short term. Okay. But what happens especially for me, is I weaken my ability to regulate my own emotions. So stopping watching porn wasn't just stopping a bad habit. I had to learn how to regulate my own emotions. I had to learn to deal with triggers and urges. And so there was this kind of incredible process that kind of weaning myself off porn was just not easy.

[Theo Vaughn]

Thanks for sharing, man. Yeah, let's go back into your journey a little bit.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. And so, you know, we're in this place right now where I'm, you know, using porn to deal with the pain of being Steve.

[Theo Vaughn]

You were in this place?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, so. And, you know, at that time, I was in a relationship as well, and great girl. And, you know, throughout that relationship, the more porn that I consumed, things started to change, you know. You know, sex wasn't about connection, making love. It was about intercourse over time. It was about replicating what I'd seen in the movies. You know, I often like to say pornography abuse literally burns off the nerve endings of sensuality in relationships. Less kissing, touching, holding, caressing. And that certainly was the case for me. And, you know, over time in that relationship, you know, I experienced a lot of sexual dysfunction. I had difficulty getting and maintaining an erection during sex.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Walt]

Over time, I actually didn't even want to have sex with her. I've been so desensitized to sex with all the porn I was watching and masturbation I was engaging in. And towards the very end, I couldn't orgasm unless I was thinking about a porn scene I had seen earlier that day.

[Interjecting Friend]

Wow.

[Steve Walt]

So pornography robbed me of my manhood. And, you know, that poor girl, I mean, I mean, talk about affecting her self esteem and self worth. Like, what's wrong with me? Why doesn't he desire me anymore? Am I not attractive anymore? And I had no ability to talk about this at this time. I had so much shame over. I had this incredible double life. So, you know, porn helped to destroy that relationship. And so, and I'm not talking about the guy who's casually consuming porn. I was abusing pornography and, you know, relying on it. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was just. What you notice is that men who abuse pornography, you know, it comes with some consequences. And, you know, for me, pornography was this gateway drug. Right. All those lines in the sand. I Had of behaviors that I would never cross over and engage in. All got washed away, really. Yeah. Pornography was a gateway drug that led to strip clubs, erotic massages, escorts, really dark, dark places. It was so painful. You know, that came a point in time in my life where I couldn't even make eye contact with the man in the mirror, really. Because I knew the truth. When I think about this journey, I mean, porn was, like, the culprit. So it just didn't work for me.

[Theo Vaughn]

Did it get to a point where it didn't work and then you kind of evolved onto other stuff or how did.

[Steve Walt]

Like, you know, in 2008, my life just kind of blew up. I collapsed emotionally, spiritually, professionally. Everything kind of came to a head, and I absolutely blew up my life, unfortunately. And. But that was the time I also had the courage to kind of ask for and get help and. Not an easy thing to do to kind of talk about these issues, get help for these issues. And it was hard coming out of the gates to get better from this stuff, you know?

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

How'd you know? What was the. Was there, like, kind of a breaking point? If it's okay to ask you.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, please.

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean, thank you, bro, for just being so open and, like, transparent about

[Steve Walt]

some of this, man.

[Theo Vaughn]

I think I was scared about even, like, talking about this. Not because I'm scared of, like. Like, I don't know. I don't know why I was. I don't know. I know you're such, like a. You know, this is, like, your world.

[Interjecting Friend]

You're.

[Theo Vaughn]

You care so much about helping people with this situation, man. So I don't know why I was. But, like, did there come a point for you where it was just like, this is, like. I just. This is it. You know, I.

[Steve Walt]

You know, I think the. I knew I had to get help. I knew I was in a lot of trouble. I was getting the best help that was available, and I was still struggling, and not because I had a desire to get better. The one thing I did really, really well is I didn't give up. I kept coming back. The one thing I really did well was I had so many good people in my life that saw something in me I couldn't see in myself. They refused to give up on me. I had incredible family. My mom, my brothers, my sister, who loved me unconditionally and were like a pillar of strength when I was so weak. So I was so lucky to have such good people in my life, and I had to fight for my recovery. Wasn't easy it was not easy. I had to fight and fight and fight. But I'll tell you what, I never gave up. And I live a pretty incredible life today. Yeah. You know, I'm married to a woman I absolutely adore. My wife Jennifer. Best thing that's ever happened to me. She's an incredible, incredible human being.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen.

[Steve Walt]

And has made me such a healthier, better man. I am so blessed for her. And we had our son Theo almost a year ago. We started a family. And all byproducts of recovery. And so I'm a huge believer in the power of recovery, the benefits of men getting into recovery, especially as it relates to sexual compulsivity and porn abuse. You know, when you think about my recovery journey.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

I think about it kind of in three stages. Healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality, and healthy masculinity. Healthy intimacy. First person I had to have an intimate relationship with is myself. I had to get more comfortable with Steve. I had to stop running and numbing. I had to learn to sit with discomfort. I had to learn to really identify the root causes that were driving these compulsions, because porn was not my problem. Steve was my problem.

[Theo Vaughn]

Wow. Yeah, man. Getting to know yourself, did you feel like yourself was like your, like, self was, like, hidden kind of, or that yourself had never developed? Does that make any sense?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, I think probably both. All I know is I was so uncomfortable in my own skin. You know, I suffered with anxiety. I suffered with depression. I didn't feel good about myself as a man. You know, I had such trouble being in relationships, experiencing love, and I was so disconnected, not only from myself, but from others. And it kind of made sense why I abused pornography. I was just really unhappy.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

You know, and that's, you know, the thing that I've learned over the years is that recovery is not about stopping a behavior. Recovery is about building a life you don't need to escape from.

[Theo Vaughn]

Were you able to notice some of the things that you felt like you were escaping from that you felt like were kind of sending you in that direction?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. Right. And I was kind of emotionally unstable.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

And so part of recovery is being able to regulate your own emotions. Right. Part of people think that, like, recovery looks like this. It doesn't. It looks like a chart of the Dow Jones. Yeah. Right. And so what I end up doing recovery is just kind of softening the peaks and valleys so that I could exist in life and, you know, not have to numb the pain of the way I was living my life. And so, you know, part of that involved Being able to have a relationship with my sexuality that's beautiful and empowering and made me feel good about myself as a man. That's so missed in recovery circles. Everything is about abstinence. And I get that there's value in abstinence. But if you truly want to transcend this compulsion, you have to build the life that's more enjoyable, more purposeful than the life you are living, or else you're going to be vulnerable to returning to it. So part of that means, like, dude, Steve, you've got to learn how to be in a relationship. You got to learn how to experience the joys of your sexuality. You have to learn how to experience meaningful connection in order to truly transcend this compulsion.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. It's so funny you're saying this, because I was thinking the other day, it's like, it's one thing to kind of, like, refrain from things, right? Like, I'm refraining from drugs and alcohol, and I'm, you know, like, I'm like, I'm refraining from things that I'm addicted to. But it's another thing, like. But if you don't have a life outside of that, then you're just sitting there playing defense all the time. That's correct. I was just thinking about that the other day. Somebody's like, what do you like to do? And I'm like, you know, well, my hobbies became my jobs, and I'm like, yeah, I gotta find. I gotta find some things to fall in love with.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

I gotta find, like. And there's so many things.

[Steve Walt]

How about a great woman?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's.

[Steve Walt]

That would be awesome.

[Theo Vaughn]

Hey.

[Steve Walt]

Just saying.

[Theo Vaughn]

I'm down, but, yeah, I see exactly what you're saying.

[Steve Walt]

I live a life today where I don't need pornography, I don't need alcohol, I don't need drugs. You know, this is like a journey around really healthy masculinity. You know, for so much of my life, my behaviors were not in alignment with my values.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And I suffered. Right. I needed porn to deal with the way I was living my life. So when I started to live my life in alignment with, like, honor, integrity, love, service, kindness, I felt good about myself as a man. Like, I didn't need to numb the pain of Steve.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

I could look in the mirror and, like, that's a good guy most days. Yeah. That's good stuff.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

So that's often what's missed in recovery. This is not just about abstinence. It's about becoming emotionally regulated, kind of socially connected. Living with honesty and integrity so that you don't need some maladaptive coping mechanism to deal with life.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen. Yeah, man. I think this has been like. I mean, I have so many friends that talk about this a lot, and even women. I was talking to this girl the other day and I said, you know, I have a guy coming in who started a recovery center for a porn addiction. And she's like, oh, you know, I struggle with that. And I was like, it shocked me. Yeah, it's. I had never heard a woman just say that to my face. And casually, yeah, you know, why do so many men struggle with this?

[Steve Walt]

So here's the truth that no one tells anybody. This is really, really difficult to overcome. It's almost comical. You go online and you see these ads, we'll fix your porn problem in 14 days. No, you won't. Yeah, not happening. Sorry. You know, and there are a bunch of reasons why this is so hard. The ease and accessibility of this make this, like, a phenomenon we've never seen before. And it's not just porn. It's sexualized social media. And so I'm in long term recovery from cocaine addiction. And could you imagine an early recovery, having to walk around all day long with a pocket full of cocaine and not do it? When you have some uncomfortable feeling come up, what do you think it's like with these guys that have their drug of choice in their hand on their phone?

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

So the instant access makes this challenging. So that's one thing, but there's a lot more going on. And so when you think this is the way I think about it. Right. And so I think that pornography kind of hijacks the brain's reward system. And so dysregulate your nervous system, porn becomes this learned shortcut to avoid discomfort. So when you stop watching porn, you're not just stopping a bad habit. You are literally kind of throwing away your primary regulation tool. And when you stop watching porn, I don't know if you can relate to this. I certainly can. Your nervous system can go haywire. Right? You can feel irritable, you could feel anxious, flat mood, low energy and cravings. And these cravings can feel primal. They're literally a function of multiple systems in your brain and body, like screaming out all at once that something's missing for your survival.

[Interjecting Friend]

Wow.

[Steve Walt]

That's why guys return to the behavior, or quote, unquote, relapse. This is not about willpower. This is not about moral failure. This is biology and neuroscience. Your brain has been conditioned with all the porn that you've watched and your nervous system has yet to find another way to regulate itself. So recovery is not just about stopping a behavior. It's retraining your nervous system. It's learning how to deal with urges and cravings so they weaken over time. Second challenge is that you've heard it in my story, right? Men use porn as a way to numb, avoid or suppress emotional pain, anger, pressure, anxiety, depression, trauma that none of us want to feel. And so when you stop watching porn, these feelings come back with a vengeance. So unless you begin to identify and heal those root causes, you are going to routinely return to the one thing you know provides you temporary relief. And that's porn.

[Theo Vaughn]

In the past, you know, I'd been hesitant to invest, to put my money somewhere. I'm that guy. I make my money, I keep my. I like to keep it locked in, you know, and sometimes I was just too busy to learn about how investing even worked, the strategy of it, the long term idea of it. You know, I was too busy focusing on just where I was at the moment. That's how it happens with a lot of us. Acorns. That's what I'm here to tell you about. Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow. Acorns is a smart way to give your money a chance to grow. It's easy. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare money, even if all you've got is spare change. Sign up now and join the over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns. Plus, Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment. Okay. Offer [e-mail] Theo that's a C O R N S.com T H E O to get your $20 bonus investment today. Terms and conditions apply. See acorns.com terms for details. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incident to positively promote Acorns tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers accounts, age and investment settings does not include Acorns. Fee results do not predict or represent the performance of any ACORNS portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and I see registered investment advisor. View important disclosures acorns.com this show is sponsored by Liquid IV. It's summer, baby. It's warmed up. You could feel it's warm. It's not even a joke. The other day I was just standing in the driveway and just thinking, God who cut the heat on? Cut it off. I was texting my neighbors. Is yalls heat on? Just overwhelmed. It's hot when you're on the go. Staying hydrated is is the key to enjoying all that extra sunshine. And liquid IV is clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone. I bring liquid IV with me when I'm on the go. I bring it after a show. I get me a little packet of one of that liquid IV packet. I poured in a shake it. I like the sugar free flavors. That's what I like. I think peach and peach and strawberry and watermelon. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates faster than water alone. Powered by Liv Hydro Science. An optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients to turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. Stay hydrated while you're on the go this summer with Liquid IV tear pour live more. Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first purchase with code THEO at checkout. That's 20 off your first purchase with code [e-mail] but some men, it just shows up everywhere that you kind of get addicted to it like that. It's like a guy may not have a lot of problem. A guy may be healthy, but he accidentally picks up some cocaine off the street and now he's using it. Right. As opposed to a guy who like is hurting and goes to look for cocaine or porn. You know I'm just, I'm using cocaine as. I don't know why I use that but like, you know, there's some guys who accidentally just shows up on their phone. Maybe it's a pop up or whatever or they just are. They have some sexual energy and they take it there and they're not really. Maybe they're healthy when they get there. And then there's guys who are unhealthy that go there for a fix. It feels like. So it feels like there's kind of two different 100.

[Steve Walt]

There's casual porn use.

[Theo Vaughn]

Okay. So not everybody is not at all like is trying to has all these things that they, that they need to repair.

[Steve Walt]

That's correct.

[Theo Vaughn]

Okay, got it.

[Steve Walt]

There are guys out there that are continue to get engaged in the behavior despite consequences and. Right. And so I think These statistics say 10 to 15% of men have an addiction or severe unhealthy relationship with pornography. So I'm talking about that category of men.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Because for me, I know I never had like the addiction to pornography. Like I had the use of It.

[Steve Walt]

Give it time. Give it time. Don't sell yourself short,

[Theo Vaughn]

please know, but I definitely had. Where it. It was an. It was a way instead of having to connect with the woman. Yeah, I would. This is an easier way. And that became like, just an easier, safer way. I didn't have an. So I guess there isn't an addictive element there, but I didn't have like the. The daily, like, you know, like the. That draw to it. I had more like, like intimacy issues with talking with women and stuff like that. And. And then I would just end up using. Doing ma. A lot of times not even to pornography, but. But then once porn came more prevalent and stuff like that, it was easier.

[Steve Walt]

Well, I think you highlighted a really good point. There's another component to this. Porn abuse, porn addiction, sexual compulsivity. Whatever label you're throwing at it is often referred to as an intimacy disorder. Meaning for many men, this is about more than just a sexual behavior. This is about a pattern of avoiding emotional connection.

[Theo Vaughn]

You just highlighted. That was my thing.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

Emotional connection was tough for me. I didn't have any experience of it. And so when I finally got into like, like dating or like where you're having attraction with girls and they're having attraction for you and women, it was a lot. It was like. It was scary, I guess, or it was alarming. It was a lot of things. And I didn't have like a safe outlet to talk about it. And I didn't have any groundwork of like, healthy connection at all. So that. So I think it. Yeah, that just made it like, kind of tough. And then to avoid it, I would be like, okay, well, I have these sexual feelings. I'll just go and use jerking off or whatever, something like that, as opposed to trying to figure out how to work them out. Because working them out in real time when you're a kid, like when you're young, you know, when you're at adolescent or whatever, it's kind of scary, you know, it's like a lot of. That's scary, you know.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. Where do you go to talk about this stuff? Right?

[Theo Vaughn]

And your peers, like, some of them are kind of helpful, but some of them are also like, like other kids can be about the stuff. So anyway, I'm trying to. Some of it. I can't. I can't remember exactly some of the ways. But yeah, instead of like engaging sometimes I'll be like, oh, I'm too nervous to even talk to that girl. I'll just masturbate later.

[Steve Walt]

On, you know, it's interesting.

[Theo Vaughn]

Does that make sense?

[Steve Walt]

Perfect sense.

[Theo Vaughn]

Okay.

[Steve Walt]

Men, sorry, men. Begin to prefer the safety of porn versus the unpredictability of relationships and real people.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

So once again, recovery is not just about stopping a behavior. Recovery is learning how to relate, engage, and connect with others. Recovery is about learning how to experience real intimacy, which, sorry, has to include some vulnerability and taking some emotional risk. Recovery is about learning to experience the joys of connection and love. Right. You know, if you're not on that path, it's hard not to be in pain and suffering. And so it's so important in recovery. So when you think about why this is so hard. Right. You just talked about it. Right. If you don't understand the neuroscience and the nervous system regulation, guys just stay in this hamster wheel loop. If you don't identify some of the root causes that are driving this compulsion, you're vulnerable to returning to it. And if you don't do a deeper dive around intimacy and what's blocking you from connection, you stay in pain and lonely. So kind of all three of these need to be addressed in order for lasting recovery to occur. But it's more than that. And I'll tell you a few other thoughts I have on why this is so hard. Early recovery can be very painful. And so when you so overstimulate your brain from pornography and from sexualized social media, when you stop engaging those behaviors, your mood can be flat, you can have low energy, and you can have intolerable boredom. And people think that boredom is the enemy. It's not. It's actually your body recalibrating. Everything you want in life is on the other side of you learning how to tolerate boredom. But for so many men, they quit too early because they can't sit with this discomfort. The other challenge we see constantly is that so many guys quit before the miracle happens. Yeah, I mean, I struggled for many years before I was able to make real progress in my recovery. You know, oftentimes in recovery circles, we measure sobriety success by continuous days of sobriety. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, six months, a year. All good stuff. All good stuff.

[Theo Vaughn]

However.

[Steve Walt]

However, that cannot be the sole measurement of progress, because for many guys, myself included, they're not going to get it right away. Right. It's going to be a journey. And if you keep kind of having to relapse and you go down this massive shame spiral that you're failing, that you're a failure, you give up. So recovery is about becoming emotionally regulated, socially connected, learning to Live with honor and integrity so that you don't need porn anymore. That can take time. Recovery is about building a life you don't need to escape from. That can take time. And so for many guys, especially single guys, right. Where there's not external leverage or consequences on you. Right. A married guy, he's really in trouble. His relationship, he's got to get sober or the marriage is at risk.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

That's one dynamic. But now you got a single guy right now. What is the motivation for him right now to continue on this work? You got to keep that person inspired and motivated to continue to do the work. And guess what? If the best that you can do is watch 80 to 90% less porn in any given month, great job.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right?

[Steve Walt]

Great job. As long as that is in conjunction with you developing new habits to take better care of yourself physically, spiritually and emotionally.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen.

[Steve Walt]

Right. Recovery is a. The ability to sustain abstinence will be a byproduct of you taking better care of yourself physically, emotionally and spiritually.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, it's a three sided deal.

[Steve Walt]

100%. So guys quit too early. Like where you going? We just got started. And so why not also measure consistency of going to the gym? Consistency of making social plans, consistency of learning a new hobby.

[Theo Vaughn]

Keeping your word, dude, taking care of

[Steve Walt]

yourself, measure that stuff in addition to your sober day count.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. There's a lot of other factors that start to gauge like, that you can use to self gauge as well and that are super important. But also a lot of those factors are things that also just like, you know, it's getting up, it's getting up being active. I want to take care of myself physically. You know, I want to meditate. I want to have a relationship with a higher power. I want to like nurture this gift, this thing that I am. Right. And there's this other. It's such a Pandora's box. Porn is because it's like here's this thing and it's just. It's tricked. It's tricked. It's, it's, it's, it's like a, it's a just a finely calculated molecule of the devil really. You know. And it's, it's. And so when sometimes people are like, man, we're not at war. There's not a lot going on. But if we're sitting here losing a battle a lot of times. So I do think there's a, there's it, there is this inspirational element sometimes where I'll feel like I can. I like if I want a war there's one every single day for me against the dark arts, against the things that want to drag me down, you know, against the things that are literally are. Are finessed to take away the essence of me. Right? The essence of me, man. And so it's like there's a battle right now, I think, for a lot of that. And a lot of us don't realize. Well, and. And we can get kind of like lullabied into the comfort of it. You don't think it's a big deal. You're looking at it once or twice. Right. But then you, you like. I would notice for myself if I was doing, jerking off or whatever, something like that, the next day I'd feel a little bit kind of bad about myself or I'd be shorter with people. If I looked at pornography, it made me look at, like, dates and stuff. It just like it carried. I had a little bit of shame inside of me. You don't even realize that sometimes it's like you don't think it's on the forefront of you or that it's. It's affecting, like the look in your eyes or anything, but there's a little bit of that in there, you know, it kind of like colors your coffee a little bit. It's like. But it's not the best color, you know? Does any of this stuff make sense that I'm saying I'm kind of rambling?

[Steve Walt]

No, no, no. There's. I want to. I want to.

[Theo Vaughn]

Hard to explain.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, you did a good job with it. A few things that come to mind. Number one, you talk about the rig system, and so I read this. I shared this with you on the phone a few weeks ago. I read this stat that said that the dopamine spike is from the anticipation of watching the next video and not the video you're actually watching.

[Interjecting Friend]

Wow.

[Steve Walt]

So the addiction is to the scroll. And I dopamine, I might butcher this, but I think that's what it said. Dopamine is not the pleasure chemical. It's the motivation chemical. It's the chemical of pursuit. What's next? So social media is rigged this way. Pornography is rigged this way. You know, back in the day, you know, getting access to porn was going to some creepy video store.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

Going behind a curtain that said adult only. Or beads. Those beads that would hang, you obviously know. And all of a sudden to get this VHS and a brown paper bag, put it underneath your arm and do the walk of shame home. Right. But you go watch that VHS, you know, for 15 minutes. Do whatever and go about your day. That's not what modern day porn abuse looks like. It's infinite novelty where you're constantly scrolling for sexual imagery hours at a time. This is a whole new beast.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, it says it right here. Industry analytics and search engine studies estimate that pornographic content accounts for roughly 20% of all Internet searches on mobile devices. That's astronomical. This is notably higher than desktop search rates, which generally clock in around 13%. The primary driver of this higher mobile percentage is the privacy portability and convenience as smartphones provide. Because of this, studies from major adult entertainment networks indicate the vast majority of adult content is. Is accessed via a cell phone. Yeah, I read the other day that pornhub, which is banned here in Tennessee, I do want to say that.

[Steve Walt]

Is that right?

[Theo Vaughn]

You have to have an id.

[Interjecting Friend]

That's correct.

[Theo Vaughn]

And that's how that. Dude, that. That thing that they have. I think it's the Tennessee Miners Act. Is that what it is? The Protect Tennessee Miners act is a state law mandating that commercial websites and digital platforms containing a substantial portion of content harmful to minors implement reasonable age verification methods. So you have to. You have to enter your id. That's a huge thing because it makes you take some accountability. Okay, well, am I. Is this something that I'm willing to say I do, right? Is this something I'm willing to put my name, my height, my data? Am I really? You know, I'm saying, am I willing to go that far with it? I love that. I love that. Like, there's been times where I've wanted to go look at stuff, and that stopped me right there.

[Steve Walt]

Great.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. So I do find that that is helpful because it, like, yeah, I don't want to put myself in there, really. Like, I want to look at it as like this guy in the distance. Right.

[Steve Walt]

Have they seen fake ID spiking right now? Because people want.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's a great question.

[Steve Walt]

Good business, perhaps.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, yeah. Around 7 to 11% of men self report experiencing problematic pornography use or feeling addicted. I mean, that's unbelievable, man.

[Steve Walt]

And it's just not porn, right? You look at the content that's on X, you look at the content that's on Instagram, Facebook reels. Right? That sexualized content can have the same effect on the brain as watching pornography. And so it's an issue. And so we live in a really tricky time right now because it's everywhere.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's unbelievable that it exists. It is unbelievable that we allow it as well, you know that we allow it.

[Steve Walt]

Well, there's also A societal thing with guys. Like, it's. That's what guys do, right? It's cool watching porn. And I'll tell you the truth, that ain't so cool.

[Theo Vaughn]

Guys don't do it together. Guys watch a game together. I've never had a guy be like, hey man, I'm having a couple of the guys over to watch some porn. Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

The thing that's really interesting to me is here's the truth. So many men who abuse pornography, right? It affects their sexual performance, it affects how they show up in relationships, and it builds shame, right? So so many men struggle with sexual performance. That's. That's not a new thing. But what is new, and I think quite concerning is how many of those men are under the age of 40. They turn to Cialis Viagra, testosterone replacement therapy, thinking that something's wrong with them physically, when the truth is, and the reality is, is their sexual dysfunction is probably caused by all the porn they're consuming. So heavy porn use can rewire the brain and even my own story.

[Theo Vaughn]

Is that true?

[Steve Walt]

Perhaps heavy porn use can rewire the brain and cause odd, all types of problems in the bedroom. Like, even in my own story, right? I had difficulty getting and maintaining an erection during sex, especially with a partner. I had difficulty orgasming towards the end of my run with pornography. I had difficulty maintaining an erection, and I needed porn stimulation to stay aroused. And heavy porn use can absolutely lead to premature ejaculation. You know, one of the things I didn't share in my story, which is important to talk about, right, because there's probably a bunch of your listeners right now listening, waiting for someone to tell the damn truth. You know, when I first started consuming porn early in my life, before that relationship, I struggled with premature ejaculation. And I had so much shame and embarrassment around it. I got to a point where I'd rather not be with a woman than be with a woman and have that type of sexual performance.

[Theo Vaughn]

You feel like you were just so nervous about sex. I mean, it makes sense. Sex is a nervous thing for.

[Steve Walt]

Well, I'll tell you a few things. For a youngster, I didn't realize a

[Theo Vaughn]

few things for the children. Sex is nervous for the children. You know, it's a nervous thing, even for adults. Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And so what I didn't realize at that time was that all the porn that I was consuming and the way that I was actually masturbating to it kind of conditioned my brain to orgasm quickly. And that carried over to real life scenarios. I didn't Realize at that time that the intense porn that I was watching so overstimulated my brain, leading to early orgasm.

[Theo Vaughn]

Wow.

[Steve Walt]

So my porn use was tied to shame and secrecy, which fueled kind of anxiety around sex, making it kind of uncomfortable. And, you know, porn was the cause of this. Yeah. So that's one area men not so manly. When you think about, hey, you know, is it really that cool?

[Theo Vaughn]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

Second challenge that guys tend to have. It can totally affect how guys show up in relationships.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, dude. Watching like. Like touching your body or whatever, jerking off or whatever. It was like. It was like. It just made it easier than having to go and try with women and having to go and have a relationship. It made it all just easier. And if you came from, like, in it. For me, I just. There was so much. It was so uncomfortable that I was like, I don't really. I mean, I guess I had a choice, but it just was too much of a. Of a easy alternative. It was like, I don't. I don't know. Like, you know, I'm so embarrassed. I'm so. Like just have so low self worth. So many little things. They're like, man, I can't. I can't go ask this girl out or do, you know. So it became this little thing, and then this was the part that I was gonna get that you made me think about.

[Interjecting Friend]

Sorry.

[Theo Vaughn]

Every. Everything about sex felt like a secret. Right. Like, I would. Like, it was always like, when I was growing up, we would go in the woods and see the tits or whatever chiseled in the wood or whatever. Or would sneak into you.

[Steve Walt]

Is that still around, you think?

[Theo Vaughn]

I'm sure it's been. No, I think they had weevils or whatever. Got it. I think it was that. I can't remember exactly. I have to look it up.

[Interjecting Friend]

Okay.

[Theo Vaughn]

But. Or it could have been one of those new ticks that Bill Gates unleashed or whatever. But whatever. I'm sure it's gone these days. Or it's really. Yeah, it's eroded to an A cup, you know, for sure.

[Steve Walt]

And what's the point to visit it then, right?

[Interjecting Friend]

Come on. Come on.

[Theo Vaughn]

At the time those things were.

[Steve Walt]

And then making a road trip for an A cup, dude, they had a

[Theo Vaughn]

woodpecker would land on one of them.

[Steve Walt]

That's big.

[Interjecting Friend]

Pretty nice. So.

[Theo Vaughn]

But, dude, the. The biggest thing that I think about, like, it was just like, seek. Everything was sex when I was young became, like, secretive. It became, like, secretive because, yeah, if you're looking at pornography, she was doing masturbation. He Was sneaking off and doing it. So everything became secret. So then like everything, like, even when like dating, I never want anybody to know was. I was very secretive about stuff.

[Interjecting Friend]

Stuff.

[Theo Vaughn]

So it always had all this like a little bit of extra, like, kind of taboo around it. I think I don't even know what that means. But it was just like, you know, when things are in secret, it's, it's, you know, they. They things in secret can be kind of uncomfortable. Things you're always trying to hide can be kind of uncomfortable.

[Steve Walt]

That's right. You know, I think also that secrecy can lead to shame.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you're always. If something's in secret, you're always worried somebody's going to find out about.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

And I didn't have any positive, like, relationship with sex or. No, like, I didn't have any. Not like, I didn't. Nobody taught me it. Told me nothing about it. It was just like your body, you change and then you're like dealing with it.

[Steve Walt]

And I mean, I'm still waiting to get the birds and beats conversation from dad. You know what I'm saying?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They should just have a decent man that travels around the country helping just have the birds and the bees conversation.

[Steve Walt]

Like a temporary rent. A dad to have the conversation with you when you're like 12.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, just like some wiener Santa or whatever, who. He travels around. He pulls up, you know what I'm saying? Do it outside, wherever, where it's in view of, you know, where the Lord can see it. But anyway, you were going into a second part about relationships, how it affects relationships. And dude, I'll even remember, like if you, If I. If I say a few. But if I'd been like, you know, doing. Touching myself or whatever, jerking off or whatever like that, then I would. It. You're right when you said it's like it changed the amount of intimacy now. It's like if my girl and I are going somewhere, maybe I, I don't. I would, I wouldn't touch her, touch her elbow or like, you know what I'm saying? Or like give her a pinch or like, you know what I'm saying? I wouldn't create that energy. So a lot of that energy disappears. And that's the thing, I think that we don't realize a lot. It's that little. Like that yin and yang, that whole thing that keeps like nature and society and. And really the future because of procreation, which keeps it all in balance, is this kind of tension. Right? A Romantic, kind of like Samba between, like. Like, her aura and mine, and pornography, like, weakens that. And then you're right. People take into their head. Like a woman will take in her head, like, oh, something's wrong with me, or he thinks I'm not this way, or I can't do these things.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Which is. You know what I'm saying? So it's just. It's. It's a tough cycle, and I think a lot of it does fall on us men because we got to be stronger. You know, I'm not saying that I'm great at it or anything, but I do think that somebody's got to come to the rescue of us, and I think it has to be us.

[Steve Walt]

Well, no one's coming to rescue us. Right. You got to take accountability in your own life. But I think you really eloquently kind of laid out the dynamics that porn abuse can have in relationships.

[Theo Vaughn]

Did I really?

[Steve Walt]

You really did. That was really well said. And, you know, I just.

[Theo Vaughn]

I feel bad about some of the. I feel like, dang, I wasted a couple relationships. I wasted some. And I wasted somebody's time, and I wasted, like. And I didn't even know it. But, yeah, some of that.

[Steve Walt]

Now the only way you learn and grow.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And you know what? You often see when men abuse porn, over time, they can lose attraction for their partners because they can't compete with porn. I mean, how unfair is that? Right? There could be less desire for romance. I'll say it again. Pornography abuse burns off the nerve endings of sensuality in relationships. Less touching, holding, kissing, caressing. So if I'm watching porn, you know, maybe I don't notice the waves in my wife's hair if I'm watching porn. We hold hands less, perhaps. So pornography abuse can deaden the vibrancy of our partners, our wives, and our marriages. I mean, that kind of sucks.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Well, it dims the way you feel. For me, it dims the way I feel if I'm waking up.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

Like, oh, I still. The. My first thought sometimes is, if I'd looked at pornography today before. It's like, oh, man, I wish I hadn't done that. I think I cannot do it. You know, it's like, but you're always in this war. It puts you always in, like, this battlefield.

[Steve Walt]

It's like being hooked up to an ivy drip of shame. And for not every guy. Right. We're not talking about the casual use. We're talking about the compulsive use. And the other thing, you Tend to see over time, the guys that end up abusing pornography. Porn and masturbation just become the preferred sexual outlet and shame and secrecy and guilt become the norm. And because of that shame, so many guys, especially our young guys, are not dating. They've given up on dating. They're not actually having physical sex. I read a stat not too long ago that 1 out of 3 men under the age of 30 have not had sex in the last year.

[Theo Vaughn]

1 out of 3 men, 1 out

[Steve Walt]

of 3 men under the Age of 30 have not had sex in the last year.

[Theo Vaughn]

But some of those men could be

[Steve Walt]

10 years old or whatever, I would imagine. I didn't look at the fine print of the thing. I would imagine it probably told me age 18 to 30.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, they should say that then.

[Steve Walt]

They should probably. Yeah, good point.

[Theo Vaughn]

Because yeah, if it's like this five year old, hasn't you like. Yeah, I hope not.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, we want, we'll fact check this right now.

[Theo Vaughn]

Anyway, recent data from the General Social Survey indicates that nearly one quarter of young adults aged 18 to 29 reported having no sex in the past year. Looking specifically at younger single men under 30, the rate of sexlessness can climb closer to one third. And then, bro, you know what happens, I think, when, when you start to, when you start to like, when you dim the men in a culture, anything can come in there.

[Steve Walt]

True.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's like when you dim the warriors who are standing at the gate, anything can slip in there, you know, and then they come in and now they got the women on only fans because, because they're not in a relationship and there's not like a provider and there's not like a leader and you're not part of like a. We're doing this together, right? And then like, everything's for sale. It's like, what's for sale now? You know, And I don't mean that I'm. It's not, none of that's negativity at anybody. It's just like, you know, it's just like. I don't know, do I sound judgmental? I'm just kind of. I think it all makes me just like. I don't know, I feel like we're stronger than this, but we, we are in a war.

[Steve Walt]

Well, I think what you're highlighting and what I'm hearing you say is so many of our young men in particular, they lack confidence in themselves. They're full of shame, right? They don't have the, they can't handle rejection. Right. The world needs healthy, strong men. And Pornography, abuse is emasculating our men today.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's what I'm saying.

[Steve Walt]

That was definitely the case for me, 100%. But here's the deal. And I need your listeners to hear this right now.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Amen. Because I don't want to get stuck in the dour parts of it and that thinking are not healable because that's not the truth.

[Steve Walt]

That's not the truth. The truth is it is time to reclaim your damn manhood type, you know? Seriously.

[Theo Vaughn]

No, I feel you. Enough is enough, right?

[Steve Walt]

Enough is enough. Right now. There's a cesspool out there that are killing our men today. So let me tell you, in my own journey, when I got the right type of help, I was able to work through these sexual dysfunction. When I got the right type of help, I was able to be in a healthy relationship where I felt good about myself as a partner, as a man. So it's not just like Steve stops watching porn and everything fixes excel.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

Don't work that way.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

It's a process of retraining your brain, your body, and your relationship to intimacy.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen. What were some of the first, like, the initial moments? Was there a kind of like a day or a time in a rehab because you went to some different. Is it okay to say that you went to some different rehabs?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

You did, Dude, Steve was a animal out there in the part like, his old partying stories are great, bro.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

You have some great ones, you know, And I'm not talking just sec. I'm not talking sexuals. I'm talking like, just the. Your AA partying stories. And sometimes we tell those war stories because it keeps you out of the

[Steve Walt]

battle 100 and you gotta laugh at them now.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, dude, if I go to an AA meeting and I laugh with my friends about, like, times where we all used to do stupid stuff or something ridiculous.

[Interjecting Friend]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

The feeling I get laughing with friends. Yeah. I leave out of there. I don't want to drink. I don't want to use. I don't want to do anything harmful to myself because I've just felt connection and that gives me something that. That I'm supposed to have.

[Steve Walt]

So, like, you ever see, like, when maybe Theo Vaughn or the Red Hot Chili Peppers go on tour, they have T shirts that list all the cities they visited. Yeah, I did that with rehabs.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

So, I mean, come on, dude.

[Theo Vaughn]

And so what was your tour called? Do you have a tour I don't

[Steve Walt]

have a name for? Maybe you could help me out with that.

[Interjecting Friend]

That.

[Steve Walt]

And so, you know, it's just the journey's the journey, man.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And so once again, it's, it's, you know, it's about perseverance and not giving up. But I'll tell you some things that are interesting that, that when I was able to get the right type of help as it relates to my porn addiction, I was able to stabilize my arousal.

[Theo Vaughn]

Stabilize your arousal?

[Steve Walt]

Arousal.

[Theo Vaughn]

Okay.

[Steve Walt]

When I.

[Theo Vaughn]

Tell me what that means kind of

[Steve Walt]

when you say that, you know, I was. Pornography abuse so distorted my view of women. Pornography abuse had me in a constant place of euphoric recall and fantasy. Right. And so I had to learn how to not rely on that kind of dopamine fueled kind of energy to deal with life. I had to learn how to build sensation for sexual experiences, to be present in sexual experiences. So when I got into recovery, dude, my sex life was so enjoyable. Right. I learned how to kind of make love and connection and kissing and sensuality, all kind of beautiful stuff. When you get into recovery, oftentimes here you have better erections and more satisfying sex.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's what I want. I want that super erection.

[Steve Walt]

That's it. And you hear all the time when guys get into recovery and sustained recovery, it's so much more enjoyable. They're present for it. They're not full of shame. There's a confidence that comes from it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, that's what I. Yeah, I want that wiener that's like, plays the game like I feel like my wiener's like a designated hitter. Like it'll get up to the plate. It's kind of like. But it knows it's not going to be out in the field. It's just like showing up for the freaking.

[Steve Walt]

You know, Ohtani's a DH sometimes.

[Theo Vaughn]

Ohtani is. Yes.

[Steve Walt]

So.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, what are you trying to say? I got a small winner.

[Steve Walt]

I wanted to say that. I'm not sure what I was saying with that. Although he hits a lot of home runs, so there we go.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's what we talking about. Yeah, we might take that part out, which is fine. So, so you're saying like, you know, and you noticed that like, do you remember, do you remember like a first experience where you kind of noticed something small that you were like, oh, wow, these things that I'm doing in recovery are working and then what were some of the things that you were doing in recovery?

[Steve Walt]

Well, I did a bunch in recovery. Right. And so I did a lot of therapy. I was really active. Different 12 step recovery. I was you know, had my own personal coaches that were really helpful. And I'll tell you, I believe that recovery is a team sport. I think men need other men to become better men.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen.

[Steve Walt]

I think men need vulnerability role models. Men need love and support. Men need around other men that have similar life experiences around sex to transcend the shame that's keeping our lives small.

[Theo Vaughn]

Praise God, bro.

[Steve Walt]

Really, really important. Important. I think men heal best in community as it relates to sexual compulsivity.

[Theo Vaughn]

And so, yeah, it's so hard to heal in shame by yourself, bro.

[Steve Walt]

You can't. I don't think you can.

[Theo Vaughn]

I know, man.

[Steve Walt]

I don't think you can.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's tough for people, huh?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. So I think, you know, and in conjunction with that, so many men today are so isolated and so lonely, and so that's the driver of some of these behaviors. So once again, the roadmap to healing has to lay the groundwork for connection and community. And so where you practice kind of being part of something bigger than yourself, you practice honesty, you practice vulnerability, it gets modeled to you. Really important for men to see other men living this way, like in recovery circles and stuff. 100.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, man. Man. Oh, I'll sometimes, man, I'll be in a meeting and it's like some guy will say something. My friend James Bashera, he always tells me, he says we are the keys to each other's locks. That's what he says.

[Steve Walt]

That's sweet.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's one of the best things, man. I think about it every single day. You know, it's like something that gives me hope, I think a lot of times. Yeah. Because it's like somebody will say something, man. That, like, something inside of me has been trying to save my whole life, and I just couldn't put the right few words together. It doesn't even have to be a big, huge words or fancy words. Sometimes it's just a simple thing, but somebody will say it, and a part of me will exhale that's been waiting to exhale for so long.

[Steve Walt]

How sweet is that?

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, it's amazing, man. So, yeah, I, I, I can't iterate how much recovery and, and the community. Right. And then the fact that, like, dude, sometimes, like, I'll notice, like, especially these days, you, we get so caught up in our own worlds, but, but it almost feels like a gift when I think about when somebody else comes into my mind or heart. Like, there's times where I purposely sit down, I want to think about people and stuff, but if I'm Just like, I'll be like, oh, I just saw them the other day, and they mentioned this. Let me call and check in about it. Or just something that's like, if it's about somebody else, bro, that's like the. When that happens naturally in my head, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. And it's just because of community. But it only happens if I go to those meetings, if I'm interacting with guys.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

If I'm a part of. Of community. Right.

[Steve Walt]

And you need guys in your life, like, okay, Theo, enough with the show. What's really going on?

[Theo Vaughn]

Right?

[Steve Walt]

You need guys like that.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, dude. To tell somebody that, bro, I'm. Yeah, like this. I was in a meeting this morning, man. I'm trying to. Let me think about what I said. If I'm really honest, right? I got into a meeting a lot of times, I'll do a zoom. In the mornings, you and I go to one that's similar. Is that okay to say please? And I'll be in the gym. I'll work out while I'm in there. So I'll listen because it helps me get two things done. It makes me feel pretty, like I'm doing something. And what I say today, oh, I'm trying to keep some negative things out of my head. So I'm staying focused. I'm staying on a path. Like, I'm. I'm staying active. Because if I stay active, I stand a better chance when those things come into my head. And I was trying to be honest to guys, like, hey, these are some of the things that I've been thinking about. I know that these things grow if I don't share about them. At this level. At this level of being a seed, I know it'll grow into a. It'll grow into a cactus that I don't want inside of me. So I have to share it at a seed, right? I had to learn. A lot of times I freaking juggled a lot of cactuses because. But learning to share something at a seed level.

[Steve Walt]

Calling it out early.

[Theo Vaughn]

Calling it out early. Yes. And then just at, like, yeah, like, I'm so sick of myself, but I feel like I'm the only person that I have. And that was like. And I know it's not true, but to share, even if it's a feeling, right? Because once I share this feeling, I know it's not true. I have a ton. I have a lot of friends. I have people that love me. But sometimes I have to share what a Feeling is. Right. So it doesn't. Because that feeling sometimes can grow if I don't share it. It sits in there, you know, Anyway. Does that make any sense I make?

[Steve Walt]

You know, it's so interesting as. As you're. As you're sharing. I'm just thinking about this concept of like. Like recovery is about this journey towards healthy masculinity.

[Interjecting Friend]

And.

[Steve Walt]

And when you think about like, like the word masculinity often gets conflated with toxicity today, which I think is kind of unfair.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, it's unfair. And I think it's by design.

[Steve Walt]

That's right. Masculinity, to me, is what you just talked about. Honesty, integrity, vulnerability, courage, being a protector, being a provider, being a great friend, showing up for others and living a life that's bigger than just yours.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And so when you think about, like, this journey of recovery, this journey to becoming a healthy man, what a beautiful journey it is.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right?

[Steve Walt]

You think about, like, you know, porn abuse teaches us and trains us to objectify and disrespect women. I think healthy masculinity is about humanizing women. Women are beautiful and amazing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. And we came from a woman. Like, we. I wonder what the effects are. See if you can find something about this. What are the effects of pornography on young men's relationship with their mothers, of watching pornography? You know what I'm saying? Like, if you start. Because it's like, I do notice when I'm healthy and I'm taking care of myself, I'm able to view the women in my life. Life that differently. Right. And I'm able to view them how they should be viewed. And I'm telling you this right now, that Shopify. Shopify is hands down the best place to start and grow a business these days. If you're trying to start your own thing, you need to know them. We use them. They've helped us put a store together and. And have it adjust as we adjust. When things are busier, we can up it. And when things are not as busy, we can down it. Shopify is the platform where you really own everything. Your store, your community, all of it. Plus, Shopify gets your products in front of shoppers wherever they are. Google, YouTube, tick tock, shop, the shop app, and even chat GPT. Chat GPT. We use them for our merch store. Yep. I told you that Shopify, they made me realize, look, you can't do it alone. Thought about starting a business. This is your sign. Get started [e-mail] Theo. That's shopify.com. the today's episode is brought to you by Manscaped, the men's grooming brand trusted by over 13 million men worldwide. That's a lot of men. Now, let's be real. A lot of these grooming tools, they overcomplicate stuff, and they. And they don't perform that well. Some of them you gotta whistle into the back end of it to even get them started or something, or they run on diesel or it's. It's too much. So if you've got a beard or you're thinking about upgrading your. Your setup at the house to take care of your hair, the new beard Hedger plus from Manscaped, well, it's just dag de gummed. Worth checking out. I've used a lot of trimmers and this and that and, you know, just butter knives it all. I've sharpened a butter knife and try to take care, you know, things get clunky. This. This one's simple. Yep. I've been using one. I've had it for two weeks now. If you want something simple that actually works and upgrades your routine, the Beard Hedger plus is the way to go. Head to manscaped.com and use code THEO to get 15% off and free shipping. That's 15% off your entire order plus free shipping with code [e-mail] or if you need it today, you can just go find Manscaped at a store near you. You know, I think a lot of guys are in hiding. I think a lot of us are afraid to say that we know that we're in a war and everybody's going and fighting behind closed doors. And that's kind of crazy when you think about that. That's kind of. When you. Scary. It's scary. Scary, right?

[Steve Walt]

Scary.

[Theo Vaughn]

And how can. Is there a way to win it that way? I don't know.

[Steve Walt]

Well, you know, I could tell you from the life I live today. I mean, I don't feel like I'm in a war, you know, I have a life that's kind of rooted in love, bro.

[Theo Vaughn]

You've changed so much since I met you, man.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, I have.

[Theo Vaughn]

You give me hope.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

For the life I could live, man.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

And, you know, you really do.

[Steve Walt]

I'm glad you do.

[Theo Vaughn]

And you were always everybody's favorite. You said earlier that people cared about you or like, there was something. There was always somebody like, yeah, your family is always. You were like the guy in the meetings, dude. It was like. Because we went to meetings that had, like, Some fancy people in them.

[Steve Walt]

Real fancy. Some tall people, too.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah. All guys. All types of.

[Steve Walt]

One tall guy, anyway.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. A couple of real grade A pervert verts. Right? The creme de la creme, Right?

[Interjecting Friend]

That's right. But bro.

[Theo Vaughn]

And it was. But bro, we got in those rooms and we. Here's the thing. We laughed in there. We were. People were honest. We laughed. But yeah, you were always. It was like, dude, I wish I could be friends with Steve.

[Steve Walt]

That's sweet.

[Theo Vaughn]

It was a truth.

[Interjecting Friend]

Thank you.

[Steve Walt]

And you, you just made it. It's so important to laugh in recovery.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, dude, people don't. You got to realize this. It is. People laugh so much. It's not just this dower.

[Steve Walt]

No, no. Because this stuff is dark. It's heavy. And dude, laughing at each other. I think laughter is so good for the soul, man. You read the news right now, it's so heavy. You listen to the news, it's so heavy. Finding a place to be light hearted, to have fun and to laugh is so healing.

[Interjecting Friend]

Oh,

[Theo Vaughn]

yeah, man.

[Steve Walt]

You know how many guys I struggle with that, that I talk to and work with that are struggling? And if I can get them on the phone, I can get them to laugh?

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen.

[Steve Walt]

Oh, dude.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve Walt]

It just takes it from a 9 out of a 10 to a 6 out of a 10, you know? And it's just so important to let the air out of the balloon with laughter.

[Theo Vaughn]

What are the things. How do.

[Steve Walt]

How do.

[Theo Vaughn]

How do guys not realize. Okay, here. Trevin found something right here. I'm going to interject real quick here to go back because I never thought about that before. Does it affect the way I look at my. My sister, my mother? Women in my life and world could be your teacher, Anyone? If you're consuming pornography. How porn shaped beliefs affect views of mothers. This article explains that frequent exposure to pornography reinforces rigid gender norms and the objectification of women. Or where women are seen primarily as sexual objects rather than full, complex people. Yeah. As these attitudes become part of a teenage boy's belief system, he may begin to see women, including his mother, through a more dehuman, stereotyped lens, weakening genuine mutual respect.

[Steve Walt]

And I'll tell you the. The challenge today with what you just read is so many men today started watching porn when they're 10, 11, 12 years old. Right. That was like, they're part of a generation where the iPhone just came out. And so they had access to porn at this very early stage of their life. And so by the time you get to work with Them in treatment or therapy and you hear about like their childhood. They've had pretty normal childhood. Normal, right. Not, not a lot of trauma as we would understand. Trauma. The trauma is the porn that they started watching at 10 years old. And it's just kind of intense porn. You know, how many guys you hear like 10, 11, 12 years old watching rape porn? I mean, how painful is that when you think about that?

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, yeah, you have to know. Oh, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And you have to know that these companies. And I'm not setting myself apart from anybody, like I've been down these roads, you know, but you have to know that these companies, it is, this is strategy by them. This is a. This is. I believe. I don't think that the people that work in porn or sex work or anything like that. I don't, I, I don't have any ill thoughts or any, any of that towards anybody like that that's involved in it. I just think as a. In mass, that they don't have the best. These, these companies don't have the best interest for us. Right. Like a lot of the pornography now, it's like mother, son, grandmother, son, you

[Steve Walt]

know, you can't unsee that.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right, right. And it's also makes you think it's like, well, these are the most important relationships in the world. World. Boss, secretary, you know, or just like whatever it is, sisters, you know, it's like they're taking the most valuable relationships that have been given to us by our creator and by the world and even by science, and they're trying to manipulate those that they don't have any value to us other than sexual, some sexual perversion.

[Steve Walt]

And if you're 12, 13, 14 years old, consuming this stuff.

[Interjecting Friend]

Stuff? Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

How are you supposed to process that?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, just even seeing the words while you're looking at pornography, you see the word mother, son, father. It's all like. It's all a strategy. The devil is at work. I believe that, you know, it's the dark arts. And I'm not saying that I don't wade through the waters of them. And, you know, but that's one thing you said. It's like we continue to fight. We don't give up, you know, and you learn so much along the way.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Before we keep moving on, I want to ask you too, Steve, what are there things that could be happening that mothers or fathers might not see that, how their use of pornography or like checking out like that. Sexually checking out of like their environment, you know, they're used to watching pornography could be affecting things with their interactions with their children or their home life.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, totally. You know, it's so interesting as. As a.

[Theo Vaughn]

Because sometimes you don't correlate that.

[Steve Walt]

No, you don't.

[Theo Vaughn]

You know what I'm saying? You just think, man, my marriage isn't working, but separately, I'm watching porn.

[Steve Walt]

That's right. And so when you think about the idea of healthy masculinity, being in recovery and being a father, right? And so I'm a new father right now. And, you know, my son's young. He's almost about a year right now, but just the responsibility I have in modeling to him how you treat a woman, really important, right? The kindness that I show his wife, getting to see affection, touch, all that stuff is really important. I know your story from your childhood. You know my story from my childhood. That wasn't necessarily modeled to us. And so if you're watching pornography, right? And as a result of that, it's distorting your view of. Of women can be challenging. Right? You think maybe they don't know. Trust me, they know. They may not know you're watching porn, but that energy you have that you. You can't hide that.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. It's a little bit of shame. It's a little bit of I'm keeping something secret.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's a little bit of something's wrong, and I'm. It's a little bit of I'm scared somebody's gonna figure this out, and I don't even know what it is.

[Steve Walt]

Well, you know what happens too, also, guys that abuse porn, right? They're just not present for their lives.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

They're not showing up for their kids. Right. They're on their phones. They're consumed in fantasy. They're not present. They're missing life. Yeah, you're missing life. And so when you guys get into recovery, dude, you see this all the time. They start coaching flag football teams and loving it. They're able to show up in their lives and be present. They're better fathers. They're better husbands. They're emotionally regulated.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

They're not involved. It's almost like porn is like your. It's like your wiener playing video games. It's not real. If you walked into a room every day and your wiener was playing a video game, at some point you'd be like, turn it off and get the fuck up and go outside. You know what I'm saying? Like, you would tell you once your mate you.

[Steve Walt]

Depends on what video Game.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's a good point. That's true. If it's Castlevania or something. Yeah. But I'm just saying like, like. Anyway, I don't know what I'm saying. That's one thing I noticed in, in meetings when I've been in, when people share and people start to get better, they start to say, man, like today I had the desire to spend time with my kids, to engage, to go outside and do this with my daughter, to like flirt with my wife in the kitchen. Like I walk in the house and there's a look on my face that I'm excited to see this person that loves me, me. Just little things like that that I've heard guys sharing meetings that are like that just let me know that that recovery is real, you know, and the joy of living. Yeah. What have you seen recovery look like for people? Like, what are some testimonials that you've experienced in the rooms?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

And even through Valor. Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And so lots of good stuff. Let me think of a few good ones that might be. Well, I'll share a story. One of our first clients, 62 year old man been abusing porn for about 40 years. Long time, you know. And by the time he got to Valor, he was six years sober and Alcoholics Anonymous. But he was in so much pain. He had not been divorced for 10 years, had not had sex in 10 years and was so full of shame. And when I first met with him, you know, I was trying to like get some goals, like what do you want to try to accomplish here? And he said, I want to stop watching porn. I said, awesome, we're going to help you do that. What else? Tell me what to play with. And he just couldn't get there. Just make something up. Tell me a long term goal. If you had like a genie in a bottle, you had a wish. Give me something. I'll never forget what he said. He said, you know something, Steve? For as long as I can remember now on Sundays I go grocery shopping by myself for the week. And I see families shopping and couples shopping and it's so lonely. He goes, one day I'd like to go shopping with a girl I'm dating. I said, okay. You know, about eight months later that guy sent me a shot of him and his girlfriend grocery shopping. And it broke me. And I remember telling my wife this story and just crying and she's like, what's coming up for you? And she can't really understand because two things. I know that pain of loneliness and I know how Good. It feels to be free of it. Wow, great story. Love that story. And what's on offer here?

[Theo Vaughn]

That's what's on offer here, huh?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. The joys of living, finding love. Another great story. You hear this with consistency. You know, I get a phone call with a guy that's maybe sober six, nine months, this one guy in particular, and he says, steve, you know, last night I was on the couch staring at my wife and it's like I'm seeing her for the first time and I can't believe how pretty she is.

[Interjecting Friend]

Wow.

[Steve Walt]

Like, to me, hearing that brings me so much joy. When you kind of. That fog lifts, that porn induced shame based fog lifts and you can actually see life in color versus black and white. What a gift, you know?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, man.

[Steve Walt]

And then you see guys that get time. This is what drives me wild. They get time. They get six months, nine months, a year away from pornography and wild stuff starts happening. They go back to grad school, they launch a new business, they get a big raise. Like, what the hell's that got to do with you not watching porn? Yeah, the answer's everything. Because what's happening now is you're transcending the shame that's keeping your life small. You always hear like a guy. All of a sudden, guy lacks confidence in himself. He's so full of shame. Lives a double life. He walks into a restaurant, can never actually make eye contact with that woman at the bar. He maybe looks over, puts his head down and walks to his table. He's now nine months sober. Right. He makes eye contact, walks over, introduces himself.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And they're now engaged.

[Theo Vaughn]

Let's go.

[Steve Walt]

These are the stories of recovery. Didn't mention anything about not watching porn. Not watching porn is just the point of entry. Learning how to live a life that you don't need to escape from is what recovery is all about. Recovery is about learning how to experience the joys of love and connection. So one simple question I tell guys all the time, it's real simple. It's real simple. Is your porn use bringing you closer to or further away from the man you want to be? And if you don't like the answer to that question, what are you willing to do about it?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, Yeah, it's, it's. I've been in a lot of the meetings where I've seen guys share about stuff and you've seen a guy have a new experience, you know, it's the best. When does a lot of this. Is there a time that you notice how and when a Lot of this starts for a lot of guys. Steve, have you been able to put together any theories about that?

[Steve Walt]

Younger and younger. Because you've talked a lot about Valor on your podcast. We have seen a lot of younger men in their 20s. When I first started Valor, I thought I would work with guys like me, older professional men that are dealing with a porn addiction, sexual compulsivity, and need to get help. And we've worked with a fair amount of that. But because of your fan base, there are a lot of single men in their 20s and challenging dynamic because they're not married, they're not in a relationship, there's no external consequences. And they've been doing this for like 10, 15 years.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

And so it's like, you know, they've been in full blown addiction for over a decade and they're 22 years old.

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't even realize it.

[Steve Walt]

Don't even realize it.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's the craziest part.

[Steve Walt]

Wild. Wild.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's just like a regular habit. It's like taking them melatonin 100.

[Steve Walt]

It's just part of their life. Yeah. It has rewired and conditioned their brain and they're full of so much shame and they lack such confidence in themselves. So breaking them free of porn. It's interesting. How do you motivate and inspire a guy like that to stay on this journey? How do you create motivation in their life to continue on this path even though their path is. Can be choppy at times?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yes.

[Steve Walt]

How do you get that guy to continue to show up and not be in shame if he watches a little bit of porn? Right. That guy can be getting better. Watching 80 to 90% less porn over any given month. Great job. Keep coming back. If you return to the behavior and you relapse or return to use, own it quickly, talk about it, learn from it and keep growing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And so motivating younger men has been a little different. And to create inspiration because here's the truth. They're so isolated and so disconnected. They have significantly less friends than decades before. Everything is kind of online, everything is virtual. And so the loneliness is profound.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, as part of existence. It's not like I think some people, you don't even notice that you're lonely anymore. That's one of the wildest things. You'll spend all day by yourself, but you won't really notice that you're. Because you have some interactions. You see people, you see them. So there's all this hijacking of things that are real that would normally make you Feel like you have. Are not alone. You see people, you hear voices. You know, I mean, you're. You know, you can even engage.

[Steve Walt]

I'm not hearing voices. Is perhaps it's like you can see

[Theo Vaughn]

people on your phone or on your computer. You can. You can do FaceTime. Like, you can. So there's all these like. Like these secondary little pieces, but the connection, the true.

[Steve Walt]

The reality and remote work certainly doesn't help. I mean, there are guys that just don't leave their home.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, yeah, it's like you could basically go to work online. You could get off or get some. Order some food online. Then you could look at pornography or something, go to bed, and that's your day and that's your existence, and you're just sort of this thing. But there's so much. We're supposed to be so much more than that. I think some of it has become almost just this habit that we don't even know that we're in.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, I could see that.

[Theo Vaughn]

And I mean.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

And I'm not preaching it anybody. I think it's just like. I don't know, just the re. Like the awareness that you could be in something and not realize it is something kind of wild and, you know.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, I think that's. That's. That's absolutely true. And

[Theo Vaughn]

what are some. What are. I want to ask you outside of Valor, because you run Valor Recovery. That's your program. And, and thank you so much. I know there was a lot of guys, like, who kind of came in through po. Through the podcast who you like, were trying to help and offer recovery too. So thank you so much for having conversations with those guys over the years.

[Steve Walt]

And by the way, so many of those guys are. Are killing it right now.

[Theo Vaughn]

Are they?

[Steve Walt]

Yes, they are. And I'm going to say this to you because it needs to be heard. There are so many men that, because of your vulnerability on this podcast, talking about your challenges around that gave them the courage to reach out and ask for help. So your vulnerability is a gift to this world.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Sometimes it's scary to be vulnerable. I don't know. It's not scary. It's like, I don't know. I don't know any other way to live, really. You know, I don't think I know any other way to live. I don't know. I don't know. Sometimes I'm. I think I share too much, probably, but.

[Steve Walt]

Well, I could tell you, as it relates to this topic, I can't tell you how Many conversations we've had in the thousands now where the conversation starts. Theo said it was okay to talk about this. I've shared those stories with you over the years.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I know you have. I appreciate it.

[Steve Walt]

That's important, man. Yeah, it's important stuff. What a gift.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, it's. I. Yeah. I mean, it makes it. It's tough to know that a lot of people are hurting, you know, it's tough to know that we've all hurt, you know, it's tough to notice that most of the people that I love the most have.

[Interjecting Friend]

Have.

[Theo Vaughn]

Have hurt a lot of us, you know, me included. And we didn't just end up, you know. Yeah. I'm just glad I've met a lot of good guys through. Through recovery, you know, There wouldn't be a program, you know, if you didn't do it.

[Steve Walt]

That's right. And the great thing about recovery is you can live a life that's superior to the life you were living.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. That's the truth.

[Steve Walt]

That's the beauty of it. And so not easy sometimes to get there. But if you stay the course, you don't give up. You keep leaning into this, you're going to build a life that brings you joy, where you don't need to engage in behaviors to numb the pain that you're in. That's a process.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. What are some of the triggers that you see that you notice? Is that okay to ask you?

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

There's just patterns. Right. So many men struggle with profound loneliness and boredom. They're disconnected, they're alone. And so when you look at these urges, there tends to be a predictability to when you're vulnerable to them. Right. So late at night, scrolling on your phone. Dude, leave the phone. Don't bring the phone in the bedroom.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, shut it down.

[Steve Walt]

Simple fix. Well, Steve, I work all week long. Friday nights, I'm by myself. And there's just this period of time right now of unstructured time where I'm really vulnerable. Okay. Let's make a plan around that. Why don't you book dinner? Why don't you bookend the evening with a friend of yours so you're not alone right now. Make a dinner date with a friend right now, get out of the house.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

And so there's just these patterns that men experience as it relates to stress, boredom, and loneliness. And so when you pull up and kind of look at this stuff, right. And learn from this stuff, you can. Men don't plan to fail. They fail to plan. And so working with people that Understand, this can go a long way to putting you on the path to being successful.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen, man.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

The other thing that's really tricky today

[Theo Vaughn]

is going for a walk with a friend. Just go for a walk.

[Steve Walt]

Dude, dude, dude.

[Theo Vaughn]

My best time.

[Steve Walt]

Maybe we'll go for a walk after

[Theo Vaughn]

this, me and you. Yeah, I'll go for a walk with you. Yeah. A little time.

[Steve Walt]

I'll make time.

[Theo Vaughn]

I'd love it, dude. Yeah, bro. Thank you, bro. Dude. There's nothing better than going for a walk with one of your friends. It might seem like. And even if y' all are straight, y' all can do it.

[Steve Walt]

Even not straight, you could do it,

[Theo Vaughn]

but some of that stuff got hijacked by the gay community, I think, like, just going for a walk with your buddy. I'm not saying it did.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

But it got slightly hijacked. And, hey, we got to take our. We got to take our pedestrian rights back. But anyway, what were we saying?

[Steve Walt]

We were talking about triggers.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah. So that's when, for me, I noticed things that would lead me to do masturbation or be touching my body sometimes like that, looking at pornography, stress, right? I'm up later than I need to be. A lot of times, I'll have a deal with myself. I have a plan to go to bed. Shit will happen. She'll happen with work next, you know, I'm up 45 minutes later. I can't handle it, right? So now it's like, I got to go to sleep.

[Steve Walt]

Sleep.

[Theo Vaughn]

I think that masturbation will help me go to sleep. Right. What else?

[Steve Walt]

Social media.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, social media just. I know. I know that that keeps me up late. So I. I don't. I do a pretty good job of that. Like, I know now when I. When I open up, there's nothing super good in there. You know, I'll maybe say, all right, I'm gonna go for 30 seconds. You find one thing that's kind of engaging, and I'm shutting it down. I'm starting to realize that what a Pandora's box it is.

[Steve Walt]

It really is. And, you know, the science will support that. Like these dopamine spikes from this endless scrolling on social media. And you look at the sexual content on social media, it may not be full porn, but it can be pretty explicit. And so it's a real problem because it's this funnel. And oftentimes guys in early recovery get tripped up because they're on Instagram right now. There's this kind of image, which is a link to an OnlyFans account. And all of a sudden they're back in the dance. And so. So that's really important. That's kind of, you know, endless scrolling and endless seeking novelty can be really

[Theo Vaughn]

challenging because then the alternative. The alternative is, though, you have to think about what that is and you have to plan for that in your head. I noticed for myself, right? So if I'm not gonna be scrolling, I might just be laying there in my bed. Right.

[Steve Walt]

And what's wrong with that?

[Theo Vaughn]

There's nothing wrong with it. But at first it can feel a little bit uncomfortable. Oh, I should be doing something. Those are the feelings I go through. I should be doing something. Right. And you know, you're like, well, what would that be? So at first it's a little tough. Now sometimes my mind will start to just imagine or think of things, which is kind of nice, right? Like if it's not negative stuff. It's like my mind, it's like daydreaming or something. Used to be something people did a lot daydreaming, but. So that can happen, or I can read or I can just go to sleep. But there is a little bit of like an uncomfortable moment sometimes where it's like, ah, I should be doing something. But I'm not really playing. I don't really mean I should be doing something. I'm usually mean I should just be looking at something on my phone.

[Steve Walt]

Can you tolerate the boredom in that moment or do you need to go get a quick fix?

[Theo Vaughn]

I'm doing meditation pretty regularly now.

[Steve Walt]

Good.

[Theo Vaughn]

So I'm having a little bit more toleration with it.

[Steve Walt]

It's important.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, A little more toleration with it.

[Steve Walt]

The short form videos, these kind of quick fixes on all these. Social media is such a distraction. Yeah, right. And so getting time away from your phone.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, that's key.

[Steve Walt]

Long form reading, hobbies, creativity, working on projects I think are so healthy for you.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, I think, yeah. Doing things, building a little birdhouse, doing something like that. Getting excited about leap year. Just doing regular. When is leap year? You know?

[Interjecting Friend]

Huh?

[Steve Walt]

When is next leap year?

[Theo Vaughn]

We'll never know, bro. Because before you know it, it's gone.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's how it is.

[Steve Walt]

I missed a lot of leap years over the years.

[Theo Vaughn]

Who hasn't when? Let's look at some of the stats. What did you have, Trevin? I want to get in a little bit of information here. I want to say this just so people to give a little bit more context to pornography. Overall, Pornhub was the fifth most visited website in the world by December 2020. Just if people don't think that we are at war, right. Some people think like, like, oh, America, we're safe. We're not, we're, we're at war. Pornhub had about 170 million visits per day and 62 billion visits per year. And that was 2020. The amount of content uploaded to Pornob in a single year would take about 169 years to watch if you played the videos back to back. And, and this was, this was some information because there's sometimes you're watching stuff on there where the people in it have not come consented to it being put online. Some or, or that it was even recorded and sometimes that it's not that they haven't consented even to the sex in the video. Right. The Broward County, Florida case, this was a case. A 15 year old girl missing for a year was found only after a pornhub user recognized her and tipped off her mother. Police eventually found her in 58 monetized videos on the site. So just to know how pornhub is okay with operating, Lila Micklewait, who came on here, and she has done a great job with exposing the porn industry for the negative aspects of it. The London Sunday Times investigation, reporters are able to find dozens of illegal videos on the site within minutes, including videos of children as young as three that were on, on pornhub. So just to let you know, like the kind of stuff that can be happening on there. Oh, nice. So Lila tested that. Oh. At the time, Lila tested the upload flow to just see how easy it was to just put something up. All it took to upload a video was an email address. There was no ID or age verification, no consent verification required for people in the videos.

[Interjecting Friend]

Huh.

[Theo Vaughn]

Anyone with a smartphone could upload a video in under 10 minutes from anywhere in the world. So anyway, it just gives a little more context to what we're even watching. Because sometimes you're looking at something and you don't even really know what it

[Steve Walt]

is or where it came from or

[Theo Vaughn]

where it came from. Right. And if you can add some context to it, it makes it a little bit different.

[Steve Walt]

You know, so many of those people are been either physically or sexually abused in their childhood.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

Have been trafficked. This is not sometimes this is non consent. And there's just a gross element to a lot of it.

[Theo Vaughn]

There is. And you get tried, you kind of get tricked in a little. I think in a way you don't maybe realize it. I don't know. Especially if you're kind of susceptible. Oh, yeah, this right here, I remember this. Visa and mastercard suspend payments for ad purchases on pornhub and mindgeek amid controversy. Visa and mastercard said Thursday card payments for advertising on pornhub and its parent company mindgeek would be suspended after a lawsuit stoke controversy or whether the payment giants could be facilitate facilitating child pornography. Visa condemns sex trafficking, sexual exploitation and child sexual abuse. It is illegal. And Visa does not permit the use of our network for illegal activity because Visa was, was being accepted on these websites. So it's kind of crazy. It's like, okay, so you're saying that if this is happening on these websites, then you're okay with your kind of complicit, right? You're kind of complicit. Give me an update on that if you can. And who owns mindgeek? Changed to a low. I remember that. A Y, L O. Who owns that company? Ethical Capital Partners.

[Steve Walt]

Of course they do. Of course they do.

[Theo Vaughn]

Unbelievable. Parent organization is Ethical Capital Partners. Key ECP leadership is Fadi Mansour, a managing partner, Rocco Miliambro and Solomon Friedman. Through its parent company, ECP owns some of those highly trafficked digital networks in the adult entertainment industry, including Pornhub, RedTube, Uporn browsers and Men.com. find photos of those guys if you can, just so we can put the faces with just who they are. And that's all according to what site? Wikipedia. Okay. That's all Google and Wikipedia. So yeah, give me pictures of those three guys. Let's put them up. Just so people know who is. Who feels like it's okay, you know. And Mo, I do want to say most recently, I saw there was a. There was an art. There was a story I saw where one of the financial companies failed to stop a payment for. Was it Only Fans? It was something that was MasterCard. Visa failed to stop payments on Only Fans for child sex abuse content, says a whistleblower. Let me see. MasterCard and Visa fail to stop their payment networks from laundering proceeds from child sex abuse material and sex trafficking on the popular website Only Fans, according to allegations in a previously undisclosed whistleblower. Whistleblower compliant complaint filled with the U.S. treasury's Financial Crimes Unit. The complaint was filed in January 2023. The complaint said the whistleblower and other anti trafficking experts, including US federal agents, alerted Visa and MasterCard to unlawful content on OnlyFans. In a series of calls in 2021 and 2022, the federal agents corroborated the Presence of child sexual abuse material on Only Fans, the complaint said. It also drew heavily on a 2022 study by an anti trafficking group that said it had found a high volume of Only Fans accounts with common indicators of child sexual abuse material or sex trafficking. The whistleblower said he helped with the study, which was shared with the card companies. In the interview, the whistleblower said the agencies never contacted him to discuss his complaint. The card companies had the power to turn off the switch to stop illicit material from being monetized. So there's just, you know, it goes to that place, I guess there's like a. There's a business element to it. A Visa spokesperson said financial institutions and merchants that don't comply with Visa's robust compliance requirements will be terminated. From its network work, the company uses best in class controls to deter, detect and remediate illegal activity. If there's anything else I should in there, let me know. Since the whistleblower complaint was filed, Reuters uncovered more allegations of child sexual abuse and sex trafficking on Only Fans, a porn driven site that generates money through subscriptions and pay per view content.

[Interjecting Friend]

Huh.

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean, those companies also so big, I bet it's so hard to police everything.

[Steve Walt]

Sure.

[Theo Vaughn]

And that was just a complaint, Trevin.

[Interjecting Friend]

That's right. Not a ruling.

[Steve Walt]

But it was officially filed.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's on the record. Okay, got it. Okay. Thank you so much. Tell me a little bit about Valor Recovery and this. This episode was not intended at all to be an ad for your company or anything like that.

[Interjecting Friend]

Sure.

[Theo Vaughn]

But you know, this is just such a thing and you're the guy that I know and we've been friends for so long. But tell me about Valor and thank you for starting it.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, thank you. Valor Recovery is a company I founded many years ago now that helps men that are struggling with pornography, abuse and sexual compulsivity. It's a virtual program. You know what we have found over the years is so many men struggle getting help for this. Finding the right type of help using community based resources are. Are challenging because of shame and stigma.

[Theo Vaughn]

Like, what do you mean by that? Like going to a meeting locally.

[Steve Walt]

Going to a meeting locally, Going to a program locally. People are just. They're so concerned given the nature of this and they don't take advantage of those resources. So creating a virtual program that can be accessible with a click of a button. Right. Is amazing. Right. And offering something that's more discreet just helps guys feel more comfortable getting help. And so virtual program, it's a coaching program and the thing that's really unique about that. What we have found is so many men benefit from coaching on this topic. Different than therapy. Therapy is very valuable as well. But coaching is around accountability, setting goals, learning new skills and practicing those skills so you think and feel differently about yourself over time.

[Theo Vaughn]

Got it? Yeah. You have to put something on the other side of the scale. That's one thing I've learned in recovery. I'm not saying I do it all the time, but you can't just. You have to put something on the other side of the scale that has valuable weight to it.

[Steve Walt]

I think that's right. And so, you know, the program is unique. One of the unique aspects around it. Everyone that works at valor recovery is in long term sexual recovery. So these are men that have 10 years, 20 years, in several cases, 30 years of sexual sobriety. Why is that important? It's just the shared life experience puts us in a very unique position to help people, to understand people, because we've been there. We are you. So collectively, this team has helped thousands of people over their lifetimes deal with these challenges. Right. So that's really important. Important. It's a program that really is set up with small, intimate groups so that men learn to be part of a community. Men learn how to connect with each other. The opposite of addiction is often not recovery. It's often said to be connection. And so we're a program that offers small group settings, process groups. There's curriculum around how to deal with urges and triggers, identify root causes that are driving compulsions. Curriculum around healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality, and healthy masculinity.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen.

[Steve Walt]

And so we've had a lot of men come to this program and get better. Something we take a lot of pride in. Now, it's not easy work. I can promise you that. It's not easy work, but we take a lot of pride in helping men become the men God intended them to be. And whatever that word, God means to hire self, whatever that is, we help men put them in alignment with their higher self so they can go on and do good things in their lives.

[Theo Vaughn]

Are there guys or women out there who may not have a problem specifically with porn, but is there other things they could be having a problem with?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. I think what you're asking me is if the. Can people be suffering from other behaviors other than pornography that could be having

[Theo Vaughn]

the same outcome for them?

[Steve Walt]

That's correct.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. That's what I'm asking you.

[Steve Walt]

Is it relationship compulsivity, infidelity in relationships, prostitution? I mean, there's just a Host of behaviors that can manifest itself that are just really unhealthy for people. And so man or woman doesn't necessarily have to be pornography. And so the answer is yes. And there are just a lot of great resources out there for both men and women to deal with these issues. Whether it's working with a therapist that may be. Be trained in sexual compulsivity or sex addiction. There are great 12 step programs out there, different fellowships for men and women. Sex Addicts Anonymous, Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, Sexaholics Anonymous that men and women that are community based. 12 step based programs that could be really valuable.

[Theo Vaughn]

Adult children of alcoholics. Sorry to interrupt you. I just don't want to forget there's a lot of important. Yeah. People don't realize that there's things out there that it's like, like you might be like, well, I'm not this, I don't have this, but maybe my parent did. And you lived in the shadows of it or you lived as a recipient of the byproducts of it. There's recovery stuff for that. And we're not saying everybody needs recovery, but we're saying that this, some of this stuff is a big issue that's facing people and we both struggle with it. So other people might and that's right.

[Steve Walt]

And I think the one thing you can listen to this is not a life sentence, not a death sentence.

[Interjecting Friend]

Man.

[Steve Walt]

You can get better for sure.

[Interjecting Friend]

Sure.

[Steve Walt]

You can absolutely get better and you can live that life that you've dreamed of. It's going to take work, but there are great people out there to help you.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yes.

[Steve Walt]

And so if you're struggling, I mean, have the courage to reach out and get some help.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. And we'll put links to like valor. We'll put links to sex and love addiction, Intimacy disorder, Anonymous. Just. We'll put a link to some of those things in this so people can check it out. There's like some online like zoom sex addiction meetings that you can go to. Can I share that publicly? Yeah, there's those meetings you can go to. You can just sit with your camera off and just listen and, and see what it's like. See how people are sharing and see what's going on.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

I just want to know that that stuff's out there. I think sometimes people don't even know that it's out there. I didn't know it existed, you know, until you get into certain places and you're like, you know, I was realizing I was just having such a tough time in relationship and a relationship with myself. It was like. It was so hard for me to get to know myself without like. I always feel like I had to just prove who I was. Even to me, like almost every day it was like, yeah. It was like if I didn't, I had to do something to show you who I was. I couldn't just be right. I've had like that love. What's it called? Love. Attraction. Love Avoidance. What is it?

[Steve Walt]

Love Avoiding.

[Theo Vaughn]

But what is it when you. It's like, come here, go away. Or whatever that thing.

[Steve Walt]

Not sure.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's like, come here, go away. I had whatever that was, bro.

[Steve Walt]

Sounds awful.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Oh, but it was, it. It was a lot of my relationships.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

It was like, hey, I need you over here. I want to be with you. But then the second somebody got close, I. I was like, that's right.

[Steve Walt]

And for a lot of guys, there's sexual anorexia.

[Theo Vaughn]

What is that?

[Steve Walt]

I mean, just a complete avoidance of all sex.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, I thought you're starving. So you have sex or whatever.

[Steve Walt]

A good hamburger. No, no.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's how that American pie scene came to be. Sexual anorexia is a term coined in 1975 by psychologist Nathan Hare to describe a fear or deep aversion to sexual activity. It is considered a law of appetite for sexual contact conduct and may result in a fear of intimacy. May result in a fear of intimacy or an aversion to any type of sexual interaction.

[Steve Walt]

And the compulsive non sex is an addiction of it itself.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

And so you just think about, like, you know, what we are striving for. Right. Is a version of healthy sexuality that works for you.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

You know, so many guys get into recovery and then that's it. I've stopped behaviors. And they can go for a while, but they're kind of unhappy and miserable. So unless you kind of lean in and challenge yourself to date. Companionship, connection, healthy sex. That's what recovery is about. That's how you put these behaviors in the rear view mirror and never look back. You have to replace it with something that brings you more joy and purpose.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen. Yeah. And a lot of times that will happen because you're the way the program's set up. It's like you interact with more people, you say yes to more things. It's like, you know, so it's like it can.

[Steve Walt]

And it's easier to say yes when you're not full of shame.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, for sure.

[Steve Walt]

When you're feeling better about yourself because you're not putting that Junk in your system with consistency. You know, it just gives you your ability to show up as the best version of yourself. Kind of happens over time. Time.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a learning process, man.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

And the thing is, the program's always there. So if you.

[Interjecting Friend]

If.

[Theo Vaughn]

If something happens or something, you know, I'm saying if you have a setback or whatever's going on, it's always there. It's there. It's like, unconditional. That's pretty cool.

[Steve Walt]

It is great.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's like that. Oh, here's a summary of Hal Shorey's. Come here. Go away. The dynamics of fearful attachment.

[Interjecting Friend]

Wow.

[Theo Vaughn]

I think this is what I had.

[Steve Walt]

Past tense.

[Theo Vaughn]

Fearful attachment. Yeah. I don't think I have this anymore.

[Steve Walt]

Nice.

[Theo Vaughn]

Which is. It's kind of crazy. It's like, now I feel like I used to never think I would. Dude. It's so funny. When I was a kid. This is true. And when I was even a teen and young adult, I didn't understand how people could be married. It didn't even make sense to me at a level of, like, human affection. Like, I don't even understand. I remember I go watch people's families eat dinner, and should I go sit in, like. Like watch Peeping Tom and. Or whatever. Right. Because it was. It was like a four. I didn't even understand it.

[Steve Walt]

Well, what was modeled to you in your child at home? Now you understand it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Nothing.

[Steve Walt]

There it is.

[Theo Vaughn]

I mean, nothing. In fact, the opposite.

[Steve Walt]

So, like, the opposite of nothing? Yes. Less than nothing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Less than nothing, dude. Some weird integer, but, dude, I can't. But. And at the time, I didn't even know what I was. I didn't even know what I was doing, but I was just so, like. It was like. It was like watching somebody find something. I don't know, see something foreign. And then. And then slowly over time, it made sense to me. And then there was, like, times where I was like. I remember the first time that I thought I wanted to have a family, bro.

[Steve Walt]

It blew my mind.

[Theo Vaughn]

I'd never felt that in my life, you know?

[Steve Walt]

I cannot wait till you get married and have a kid.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, we got to get it out there, boy.

[Steve Walt]

I cannot wait. You're gonna just a. You're gonna be. You have a heart as big as any person I know.

[Theo Vaughn]

Thanks, bro.

[Steve Walt]

And the more that you get comfortable showing that side of you to a woman and build a life right now with that person, My goodness. Gonna be incredible to be part of.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

We have to get a camper, dude. The Road.

[Steve Walt]

That's it.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Take that love on the road, brother. But no, I feel you, man. Thank you, bro. Yeah, like, yeah, my first instinct is kind of joke sometimes when things get serious or something, and I used to be that way all the time. Now I'm not that way. You know, there's times where I can be in some of those spaces. But, dude, I remember the first time I thought, man, I would like that.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

It blew my mind. But it's all because of just things I've learned in meetings over time, you know, things that there's. Oh, that there's a different way. Right. Yeah. What would you say? Somebody out there who's thinking, I think this is me.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Theo Vaughn]

We're talking about porn addiction or some of this intimacy stuff. Yeah. What can they do to start getting some help?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. There are lots of great resources out

[Theo Vaughn]

there, and we'll put valor, too.

[Steve Walt]

Valor Recovery is a great resource out there. Happy to talk to anybody listening here to see if there's a way we can help you. Happy to refer you to other programs as well if you need a higher level of care.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Steve Walt]

There are great therapists out there. There's great 12 step communities out there. I think anybody that listening to this, the one thing I hope is that you have the courage to reach out and ask for help.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen, bro.

[Steve Walt]

That's it, dude.

[Theo Vaughn]

And I want to say this. I want to say thank you. There was, like, I have received messages from so many guys that said, I called and I talked to Ste. I like, he. Like, you know, a lot of places. That's not the thing.

[Steve Walt]

No. I promise you, early on, I promise you, I made a promise to you that I was gonna handle your people that call me a podcast myself personally.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And I did.

[Theo Vaughn]

I appreciate that.

[Steve Walt]

I did. It was important, and I, you know, it was. It was rewarding. I learned so much about how these men are. Are hurting and struggling, and I also learned so much on how important your voice is in these men's lives. And so keep doing what you're doing, brother.

[Theo Vaughn]

Well, thanks, man. Yeah. Yeah. We're just learning as we go, you know, and we don't have to do it alone. So I haven't had to do it alone with this show. This show helped me not be alone. This show gave me something to do. Like, you know, there were times I probably would have been using or doing things that I. You know, like, there's times it hasn't saved me from that, but there's been so many times where it has, you Know where it gave me, like, some sense of, like, value or purpose. Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

Even your voice matters, man.

[Theo Vaughn]

And sometimes not even my voice. Just listening, just being somebody, like, I learned that at some time. Sometimes I still make mistakes on it, but let me just listen so other people can listen.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. Beautiful.

[Theo Vaughn]

You know, and I don't mean that in any egotistical way. I just feel like it's just been like. Yeah. I think when I was little, I just want to have a voice. Like, I just, like, I wanted, like. Yeah. I was just. I think when I was really young, I was in so much pain and just nobody could hear me, you know? And I didn't even know what was wrong. I just knew that it hurt. And then, yeah, you get to, like. And that's all I wanted. And God helped me have that, you know? And so it's been like.

[Steve Walt]

It's not by accident you're here.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

We all have this belief, like, some reason, like, going, it should have looked differently. It should be different than it. Than it was. And the truth is, it all happened exactly the way it had to happen to be here right now.

[Interjecting Friend]

Now.

[Steve Walt]

Right. I look back at my history and be like, oh, my God, like, that should have looked all the money that I wasted on drugs or crazy behaviors. Well, if I had $1 more, maybe I would have bought that line of coke that had fentanyl. If I had $1 more, perhaps I don't meet my wife, have my son, or start valor recovery. So who am I to go back and say that should have looked differently? Everything I went through, I had to go through to be here right now. The only way to put purpose to your pain is to have lived through that pain. I think that's what you just shared.

[Theo Vaughn]

Thanks, man. Yeah.

[Interjecting Friend]

Amen.

[Theo Vaughn]

I'm glad you did, bro. I'm glad you stayed the course.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, me too.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. I really am, man. I super am. Mike Tyson said that same thing, man. When I talked to him, he just said, man, I wouldn't trade any of it.

[Steve Walt]

As painful as parts of it were, as disgraceful as parts of it were, you know, I had to go through all of it to be the man I am today.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. I mean, it's. Yeah, I mean, it's unbelievable. Really.

[Steve Walt]

It's kind of crazy. Yes, it's kind of crazy. You had to go through everything. You. I know a lot about your child. I know a lot about your life. Right. Prepared you for this moment. So it's crazy to go back and think, oh, it should have looked differently.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's a good point.

[Interjecting Friend]

Huh.

[Steve Walt]

Wow.

[Theo Vaughn]

I think sometimes it's tough to. Yeah, you're so right. And sometimes I still will think that. I don't know if I still will think that, but I still will suffer some of like, there's still like some old pain that flares up.

[Steve Walt]

Me too. Me too.

[Theo Vaughn]

And people sometimes would be like, you have to get over. You have to get rid of that. And it's like you can, but sometimes it's. It's still a real thing. It's like, just because you forgive and you move on doesn't mean that there's sometimes still not some shit that hurts.

[Steve Walt]

That's right. And both things can be true. You could be living a good life and still be hurting at times from your past. Yeah, it's not either or. It's yes.

[Theo Vaughn]

And yeah, I agree with you.

[Steve Walt]

There's this idea in recovery that, you know, everything is rainbows and unicorns. Well, yeah. That's not life. That's not life. Yeah. Right. Part of life is discomfort. Part of life is being uncomfortable.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. And I wish they kind of would have told us that.

[Steve Walt]

Would you have joined if that was the self.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's his point, though. If they would have told. It's such a. Here's the dude.

[Steve Walt]

You're not really going to feel that much better about yourself, but come on in, try this. I'm not sure that's a good selling point.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, dude, they just show you your future and it's just, you, like, you're just crying behind a Winn Dixie in your truck.

[Steve Walt]

You got to do a better way of selling me on this recovery thing than that, dude.

[Theo Vaughn]

It's so true, bro. We had some calls, man. These are calls. We have a hotline here. 985-664-9503. That's a hotline we're coming up on. Ten years, I think we've had this podcast. When did this podcast start? December of 2016. Wow.

[Steve Walt]

Incredible.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's crazy.

[Steve Walt]

Incredible. In your place in LA. Yeah, incredible.

[Theo Vaughn]

In my kitchen over there in Westwood. We'll put those curtains up. Shout out to my ex girlfriend Megan, who would put up with me and when I would, you know, it'd be like our one night of the week to spend together and I would, you know, I would spend it doing this.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

And then like, get in a bed, you know, just, you know.

[Steve Walt]

She was such a nice person.

[Theo Vaughn]

I know. She's the best. Yeah, she's the best. Let's play a couple calls that have come in on the hotline. And this, this may sound weird because it's like we're like one of those call in shows where we're like experts. We're not experts. We don't know anything. We're just two guys who were surviving and doing our best. Steve's doing better than me, but let's play some of those calls if we can. Please. Steve, if you'll sit here.

[Steve Walt]

Sure.

[Theo Vaughn]

Thanks, man.

[Interjecting Friend]

Hey, Theo, this is Siege from New Mexico. And I just want to tell you, man, you've been humpty. You've been a great help. And not gonna lie, I'm kind of drunk right now. It's like 12, you know, it's afternoon, about 1:10 or whatever. But I just want to seek your advice on some. You know, I've been a addicted to porn and masturbation my entire life and that led me to being addicted to alcohol and a way to cope maybe, I don't know. But you know, I was texting these Filipino ladies on some app and it turned into me sending a money me and they took me nudes. And then it turns out it was all scam. Obviously I should have known that. And I did know it before I even went into it. But I don't even know if I'm addicted. I've been on a seven month, seven month bender. I think I've only missed four days of drinking alcohol within the last seven months.

[Theo Vaughn]

Hey, Siege, thanks for the call, man. Yeah, I would just appreciate you sharing. So honestly, Steve, what do you think is like, can addictions jump from one to the next? What have you noticed about that? That's kind of the thing that I'm taking away from just listening to this.

[Steve Walt]

Ye.

[Theo Vaughn]

And thank you, Siege bro. And just thanks for being honest. And I think I'm gonna let Steve kind of share some of his insights here.

[Steve Walt]

I, I, you see that with frequency. Just the relationship between alcohol and drugs and compulsive porn use. And so making recovery difficult. You know, that was the case for me. But I had history of porn abuse, but also challenges with cocaine and alcohol and. Hard, really hard.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, because it'll be one you1 can cause the other.

[Steve Walt]

Chicken or the egg. Chicken or the egg. And how many guys, kind of because they're hungover, turn to porn to try to feel better? How many guys kind of make a bad decision like he did, reaching out, giving money to this scam because he's under the influence of alcohol or drugs. It's just really hard. And one of the things he highlighted these scams how often we hear guys kind of being blackmailed because they got caught up reaching out to people. There's photos, there's information. It's dark stuff. It's really dark stuff. So sounds like this person can really benefit, getting help. And here's the truth. Sometimes it's hard to address all this at once, right? And so maybe you pick one and maybe you start with alcohol and say, okay, I'm having some issues with alcohol. What can I do to get help? I mean, I'm a huge fan, as are you. Alcoholics Anonymous. Great resource right there. Oftentimes you see guys kind of porn, you spike in early recovery coming off alcohol, because it's just a way to numb.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah. I've had issues where it's like, I don't want to engage in certain behavior, so I'll even masturbate to keep myself away from those behaviors. It's like sometimes you're, you know, you're cutting off a chicken to save the horse or whatever it's called.

[Steve Walt]

I like to think of it as harm reduction.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, harm reduction. That's what I'm saying.

[Steve Walt]

Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Especially, you know, oftentimes, even with sexual recovery, sometimes you get sober off more detrimental behaviors first. You know, if a guy has issues with a married guy and you're dealing with things that might end the marriage, infidelity, strip clubs, or a host of those behaviors, you know, getting sober off those first can be critically important and then over time, time exploring your relationship with porn and masturbation. Oftentimes porn and masturbation can be a harm reduction tool not to engage in more harmful behaviors.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, yeah. And it's all a process. And the good thing is, even if you just go to AA, bro, you go to 12 Step, you start learning about this, you start getting into the world of it, you know, or if you go to like a SLA Zoom or if you call and talk to someone that works over at Valor, it's like, you know, you just start to get into the world of realizing that there's some hope for whatever's going on.

[Steve Walt]

Well, this guy. You're not alone.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, that's.

[Steve Walt]

You're not alone, man. You're not alone. I mean, looking at two guys right here. You're not alone.

[Theo Vaughn]

I know, man. You're not alone and anything is possible.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

You know, anything is still possible.

[Steve Walt]

But I'm going to quote one line that I hear you say, you say all the time, nothing changes if nothing changes. Nothing changes.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

And guess what? I learned that in the rooms.

[Steve Walt]

That's right. So whatever. Do something, don't do nothing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

I can guarantee the one way nothing will improve is doing nothing.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, that's for sure.

[Steve Walt]

I mean, this ain't rocket science.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, dude. I've walked into some meeting rooms and then 10 years later walked in again.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

Walked in and said, man, I think I need this, but I'm not sure. Ten years later, I'm back. Five years later, I'm back. You hear that all the time of God's. Like, I knew 15 years ago there was something wrong, but I didn't. I didn't step all the way in.

[Steve Walt]

It's okay.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, it's okay Here now. It takes what it takes. That's what they say, too.

[Steve Walt]

That's right.

[Theo Vaughn]

It takes what it takes. Let's take another call. Thank you. Siege, bro.

[Interjecting Friend]

Hey, Theo, this is Ashley. I just wanted to call, I guess, and get some advice about my relationship. My boyfriend of almost two years now struggles a lot with lust and not lust, being able to control himself when it comes to looking at porn or only fans and things like that. And I love him so much. And I just wanted to get your advice on if you think men can change.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's a nice. That's thoughtful of her to call.

[Steve Walt]

What came up for you when you heard that?

[Theo Vaughn]

Just. I thought it was nice how much she cares that she chose to call out. First of all, believe her. Sometimes you get a lot of calls, you say, you know, I don't know this person's realistic or not, but I just.

[Interjecting Friend]

For. For.

[Theo Vaughn]

To me, I felt like she was genuine about it and it was kind of. And. And can people change? She didn't really make it about her, you know, and she said about lust, like, she understands the bigger picture of it. So it's obvious that she's put some attention towards it to maybe even look. Go search and look online, see, see some ideas or read up on it or something. Because it's not just like, hey, this guy's watching porn. It's like he has a problem with lust. And it's fascinating to think about lust. What do you think, like, when she says that? Like, what do you kind of think, Steve? Like, what is that about? Like.

[Steve Walt]

Well, first thing I felt was. She was sharing. I felt. The first thing I felt was a little sadness.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, yeah, I did feel some sadness for her. I know she's going through a tough time and. Thank you, Ashley, for calling. Sorry, I should. I should have said that.

[Steve Walt]

First thinking about her boyfriend, the behaviors that she actually knows that he's engaging in are leading him down just a dark path. And so first thing I was thinking about is, wow, I hope she has to be able to take care of herself. Oftentimes we focus so much on trying to get the significant other some help, which is important, directing him to really good resources out there. If he wants to get better, does he recognize this as a problem? And if he does, get him some help there. Cause guys can get better and your relationship can thrive at some point in time in the future as he does the work, and hopefully you guys get to do the work together and grow closer together. Doesn't always work that way, but there are some countless amazing stories where couples kind of do the work and their relationship gets better than it ever was before.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's the truth.

[Steve Walt]

That's the truth. That's the truth.

[Interjecting Friend]

Truth.

[Steve Walt]

Sometimes it doesn't work out that way. But as she was sharing, I just hope she's got a place to go, a person to talk to, perhaps a therapist that she can just share, find ways to take care of herself in the process. Right now.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And she stays on this journey.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. And you know what? Sometimes it's like the first time you have a real intimate conversation with somebody. You know, I was at a meeting the other day, and my friends and I were talking, and they were saying after, like, dude, we never even really talk like this, you know? And I was like, hey, like, recovery gave me the. I've been waiting my whole life to talk about something that meant something.

[Steve Walt]

It gave you, like, the language, too. Like, think about growing up where, like, the kind of man rules. Right. Men don't cry. Men are tough. Right. If you're sensitive, you are a fill in the blank. Yeah. And. And so all of a sudden, you

[Theo Vaughn]

see a Ford Festiva, you got to yell down the street, something like that.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

And so not a Mustang.

[Theo Vaughn]

And it's not a Mustang, dude. Mustang.

[Steve Walt]

And so, you know, so. So many men. Right. You know, where did we learn how to be vulnerable? Where is it a safe place to be vulnerable, to be sensitive?

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

The truth of the matter is, I'm a very sensitive guy. A lot of men in recovery or dealing with addiction are very sensitive men. And for so much of my life, I tried to hide that part of me thinking it was a weakness. And I used drugs. I acted out in certain ways to numb the pain of that sensitivity. I can tell you right now, my sensitivity today is a superpower.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen.

[Steve Walt]

Because it allows Me to have empathy and to feel your experiences in pain, given where I've been with this.

[Theo Vaughn]

Facts, dude. Yeah, man. Facts, bro. And you have the best stories, too, dude. We didn't really tell any of them

[Steve Walt]

today, thank God, because you'd probably have to filter them out.

[Theo Vaughn]

You have the best stories, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we can even. We can take this out. But you have one story I remember about partying so hard in Miami that you and a friend were. Went instead of, like, you guys bought more drugs and more diapers out on the dance floor so you didn't have to.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, well, we bought dope. It was obviously laced with a laxative. And we had a choice. We had a choice to either throw the drugs out or make these kind of makeshift diapers and keep the party going. Needless to say, you know how the rest of the story goes.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, brother. Just so you guys know, Steve is a real one. The Steve is. And that's just. That is the tip of the Iwo Jima, dude. That's the tip of the iceberg. Steve's a real one. Oh, and what else? She was asking about something else, though. Oh, she was asking. Oh. Do you. Does she think it's possible for him to get better? Right. Did you. Do we answer all that?

[Steve Walt]

I. I am such a believer in the power of recovery.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no doubt. This. This whole episode, I think could help. Could maybe be beneficial to him. If you want to share with them, you can tell them like it's a. Just say, hey, man. Theo wanted you to listen to this if you want. I don't know if I know him or not or if I've ever met him. You know, you meet a lot of people, but. So, yeah, just say, hey, man. Hey. This is something your girlfriend wanted you to listen to. I've had issues with it. So if you feel okay listening to it, then check it out. So you can send him that little clip right there. And that can go along with this episode if you want. And then.

[Steve Walt]

Oh, lust.

[Theo Vaughn]

She talked about lust. Lust kind of gets hijacked or something, doesn't it? We don't talk about lust too much, do we? Yeah, you know, does it matter? Is it a word?

[Steve Walt]

It's just a word. But I'll tell you what's. What's interesting. How many guys come to me like Steve, you don't understand. I think I'm just so horny. Maybe. But what's probably closer to the truth is you're actually just really uncomfortable, and you've sexualized that discomfort. Oh, yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Every time you get uncomfortable, you end up jerking off, looking at pornography. Then when you get uncomfortable, like, oh, I'm horny. It's like, no, you're not.

[Steve Walt]

Connect the two in your brain. And so, you know. And what happens when guys get into recovery and get some time, you know, they stabilize and they realize that they're not as horny as they think. Yeah, because you're no longer using it as a tool to deal with your emotions.

[Theo Vaughn]

Right. Dude, they hijacked us, bro. The devil hijacked a lot of us, bro. You got to give props to the devil in a weird way, because check

[Steve Walt]

on this one, you know.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. They win this round.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, well, they won this round. They won this round. They won this round.

[Interjecting Friend]

Hey, what's going on, Theo? My name is Donald. So I have a situation. I have a girlfriend, she's long distance type shit. We've been together for three years, but for the first year and a half, I was just. I was just, you know, laid that semen around type shit. Yeah, I was a big infidel. Just cheat on her non stop. I told her a couple times, you know, that made me feel a bit proud of myself. But. But yeah, lately, you know, it's been a while and I just been jerking off, to be honest. Just been jerking off a couple times a day, honestly. So not really sure what your thoughts are on that. I mean, it's better than cheating, but, you know, I'm struggling out here. Yeah, I've been watching mom porn. That thing. Yeah. Okay.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Dude, I think we've kind of. We've talked about some of this. Thanks for calling, bro. Donovan or Jonathan.

[Steve Walt]

Donald.

[Theo Vaughn]

Donald. Okay. Thanks for calling Donald. I didn't know people saw the name Donald, but I'm glad they do. I'm glad they do, bro. And bring it back. Byod, bro. What I'm saying is this dude is. Yeah, sorry. This whole, this, this whole segment, to me just. It feels like it's very foreign. It feels like, like here's the energy I don't like. And this isn't the real energy of it that we know something you don't.

[Interjecting Friend]

Right.

[Theo Vaughn]

Like we're just two guys who trying our best here, but we have shown up a lot to places to try our best. So I'll give us a lot of credit with that. And Steve has done a great job of like transforming his whole life. Yeah, dude, I just know if you do that, it just weakens the spirit. So something's uncomfortable in you.

[Interjecting Friend]

You.

[Theo Vaughn]

Something's uncomfortable in your spirit. Right. And you're only going to get clues from it. Probably if you stop masturbating and stuff, you'll start to get some clues. But the tough part is, and this has been tough for me, the clues get scary. And it. Sometimes it's. It's hard to handle. You don't know. Something's, ah. You know, Sometimes you just want to scream. And sometimes it's like primal stuff. You don't know what's going on. And so you just. You sedate yourself with, like, pornography or masturbations to keep yourself at best. But it can be different, right, Steve?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. What I took from the call was this kind of idea, like, you can't really do this alone.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah. Cause this dude sounds like he's pretty capable of getting stuff done.

[Steve Walt]

That's right. He's insightful, he's honest, but he's running the show. And so I would strongly suggest to get some help. Willpower will only get you so far. Right. Getting some time to understand what's driving these behaviors, get to the root cause of some of these challenges. Get some professional help, Great resources, Get involved in the community. A men's group where you can kind of have a band of brothers where you can kind of run stuff by and talk through these things. Tough to do this by yourself.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

What happens is it'll be 10 years from now and you'll still be struggling with this stuff, and you'll just lose time.

[Theo Vaughn]

That.

[Interjecting Friend]

That's.

[Theo Vaughn]

Bro, that is the truest thing. If you relate to some of this stuff, if you relate to it at a pretty strong level where you. Like, I think I had it. It does not just go away. No, I can. There's nothing that's been. That's the most honest thing I could ever tell you in my whole life. It does not just go away.

[Steve Walt]

When I started this process, I had a head of hair like you. And I look at this thing right now. Yeah, you just lose time. You lose hair.

[Theo Vaughn]

You look great, man. And, bro, you've done a great job today, too, dude.

[Steve Walt]

Yeah. Thank you. It's been a pleasure being here.

[Theo Vaughn]

Thank you, bro. Thank you so much just for being here, for talking about this, man. Some stuff, it's like. I don't know. I just have been so much more comfortable than I thought it would be, and I don't even know why I didn't think it would be, you know. All right, let's see. Let's have one more call that came in, please.

[Interjecting Friend]

Hey, Theo, this is Cody from Florida, and I think you're really big on porn addictions, and that's kind of a weird topic to get personal about, if you know what I mean. Very awkward topic. But I feel like. I feel like I just lost the love of my life because of it. I can't control myself. I can't. I feel like because of my generation, because I. I'm. I'm 19, man. I'm. I just. I feel like it's so normalized. It's so routine. It's so normal for me to feel normalized about doing this. And I just lost the best thing that's ever happened to me. She broke up with me, man.

[Theo Vaughn]

This is the. This is a gooner national anthem right here.

[Interjecting Friend]

I can't believe it, bro. Can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop dreaming about it. I can't. I can't get past the memories that we had because of my actions. My actions. My actions made me lose it, bro. And I just. I just wanted to see if I could get some advice from you.

[Theo Vaughn]

Yeah, dude, thanks for calling in about it, bro. And, yeah, sorry, I was kind of joking around, dude, but it's real and it's. And if you really have this porn addiction, if you've related to it enough, you. Where you kind of call, you heard it and thought about it and called, then it must have some relative. There must be something inside of you that's connecting with it, right? If you've even just heard me talk about it before, because today's the most we ever even talked about it ever. So if you're picking up on something from the. From before. Won't get better. You have to have. You got to help it get better, right? So you got to show up for it and help it get better. And it will get better. And as far as, yeah, you might have lost your girl, this situation for now. But you. I. I believe you get second chances. And I believe that you won't miss out on the next good one. And you will be so grateful down the line that you started to solve the. Solve some of the issues now than waited. That's what I think, man, from my own experience. Steve, what do you. What do you think?

[Steve Walt]

I think everywhere I go, there I am. Meaning that, you know, that's just the reality. If I could date that woman without me, probably be a great experience, but I bring me to that relationship. So I think pain is the cornerstone of spiritual growth. And what happened, happened sounds like awful, tragic, horrible. But I'll tell you what, what would be really Tragic if you didn't use this moment in time to get the help you need. Leverage. The pain you're in right now to get the help you need. Really important, right? The gift of desperation. Don't let this go by and pass and be like, oh, maybe it wasn't that bad. Use the pain you're in as leverage to get help.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen. That's the truth, bro. That's. Dude, that's cool, dude. Yeah. Yeah, bro. The gift of desperation.

[Steve Walt]

We both lived it, but yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Thanks, Cody, for calling in. Did we get those three guys? Guys. By chance, we have accurate shot of them. Here we go. Right here. These are the ethical capital partners. This couple of guys right here, there's the managing partner, Fadi Mansour, Rocco Meliambro. And he's definitely been gooning. And Solomon Friedman had a feeling he was involved. There he is right now. He's the partner VP Compliance. I love how compliance is part of it.

[Steve Walt]

I mean, what.

[Theo Vaughn]

What.

[Steve Walt]

What do you do working at a porn company for compliance?

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Steve Walt]

I'm curious.

[Theo Vaughn]

I don't know, dude. I do not know. So there. That's them right there. Ethical capital partners. So we want to thank those guys for being. Basically, they are. Those are your porn Sackler family right there. That's what I alleged. That's what I call them. That's just my thoughts. Those are the sacklers of pornography right there. There's good people. Fadi Mansour, Rocco Meliambro, and Solomon Friedman. Thank you guys for your service. Steve Wolt, man, thank you for your service. Dude, today is a service call. That's what they say in recovery rooms. If, like, you, you know, you make a service call on people, you do something to be helpful to the group or to someone.

[Steve Walt]

So what a treat to be here. Thank you.

[Theo Vaughn]

Dude, what a long journey, huh?

[Steve Walt]

Yeah, it's only just started.

[Theo Vaughn]

That's the craziest part, bro. And that's the best attitude to have. Congratulations, man, on starting a family. I'm making something real out of something that was just like, do you look back sometimes and you're like, I cannot even believe it.

[Steve Walt]

I really do. And I just talked to my wife last night in anticipation of this, and I was like, I can't believe I'm here. Really unfathomable. And how did I get here? Just one day at a time, one step at a time, taking better, making better decisions.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Anybody can do it, huh?

[Steve Walt]

100.

[Theo Vaughn]

You believe that?

[Steve Walt]

I really do.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Doesn't matter if you have money or don't money. If you're in a wheelchair. If you can't see far, it doesn't matter.

[Steve Walt]

No, anybody can do it as long as you don't quit before the miracle happens.

[Theo Vaughn]

Amen. Steve Wilbrah, I love you, bro. Thank you for being a part of my life, bro. Thank you for letting me be a part of your life. You showed up for my comedy show when I came out to Bend, Oregon. We had so much fun.

[Steve Walt]

That was awesome.

[Theo Vaughn]

That was cool, dude.

[Interjecting Friend]

Awesome.

[Theo Vaughn]

And. And you've just been such a light over the years, dude. We know so many friends. Most of, like, the most important people in my life. You know them?

[Interjecting Friend]

That's right.

[Steve Walt]

Best friends in the world that have friends in recovery.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, dude, nothing.

[Steve Walt]

No.

[Theo Vaughn]

Nothing better.

[Steve Walt]

No. Amazing human beings, crazy as can be. They could be decades sober, off their rockers, incredible and beautiful.

[Interjecting Friend]

Yeah.

[Theo Vaughn]

Oh, the good. The. The good times do not end, bro.

[Interjecting Friend]

No, they do.

[Theo Vaughn]

Don't you finally. You always want to know who's got the best story in the room, dude. You finally get to meet all of those people.

[Steve Walt]

That's right. It's good stuff.

[Theo Vaughn]

Steve W. Valor, recovery. You guys can check out his. His program. If anything, you feel like you can relate to Steve. I love you, bro. Thank you, bro.

[Steve Walt]

Thank you.

[Theo Vaughn]

Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone

[Steve Walt]

oh but

[Theo Vaughn]

when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones but it's gonna take.