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Threads Magazine Podcast: "Sewing With Threads"
Size-Inclusive Lingerie, with Maddie Kulig | Episode 80
00:28:45
The size-inclusive lingerie designer, patternmaker, and owner of Madalynne Intimates discusses the challenges and rewards of bra-making.
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- [00:01]
Threads Magazine Host
Go to threadsmagazine.com and explore our helpful project guides. Each guide is a curated collection of articles and videos on a specific sewing topic, so it's easy to find the information you need. There's the Learn to Sew project guide for beginners, and there are even more guides for every level of sewer, focusing on fitting, sewing tops and pants, working with knit fabrics, and making the perfect pair of jeans. Each project guide includes dozens of posts that lead you through a logical learning sequence. Let Threads magazine be your guide to a comprehensive sewing education.
- [00:40]
Carol Frazier
Welcome to Sewing with Threads, the monthly podcast with the staff of Threads magazine. I'm your host Carol Frazier, and today my guest is Maddie Kulig of Madeline.com Maddie is the founder, designer, sewist, and driving force behind Madeline Intimates. Based in Philadelphia, Madeline Intimates offers DIY lingerie kits, lingerie sewing patterns in person, and virtual classes, workshops and retreats. Maddie is also a published author. She released her book Sew lingerie in late 2023 and she's designed more than 10 patterns for simplicity for people who don't sew. Madeline Intimates also offers Ready Made Lingerie, which is lingerie that's made to order by their small but mighty staff of Sewists.
- [01:24]
Maddie Kulig
Welcome Maddie hello, welcome.
- [01:27]
Carol Frazier
I'm so happy to have you here. It's nice to talk to you. This is going to come out a little bit before our next issue, and for listeners, you can look forward to seeing an article by Maddie in the fall issue of Threads, but we're chatting with her a little bit ahead of time while we're still working on the story. So Maddie, I have a very basic first question and you can expand on this all you want. It is why would somebody want to sew their own lingerie and is it hard to do it?
- [01:54]
Maddie Kulig
There are many reasons why someone would want to sew their own lingerie. The most common one is that they don't fit into anything in the stores, which was my issue. Being someone who is very petite, I wanted nice lingerie and not sexy lingerie, just nice lingerie. But when I went into the stores they didn't have anything in my size and I ended up the only size that they had was in the teenager section. I'm like, excuse me, I'm 25. Like I think I've outgrown this. I don't want to, you know, shop in the pre pubescent and getting training bras because that is the only thing that will fit me. So that's where my journey started. Another reason why Someone might want to sew their own lingerie. Again, a lot of Madeleine followers are older people who want to sew it for their daughter or their granddaughter as their first bra, as their first piece of lingerie. And also it's a great way for moms and daughters to connect. I've had a lot of mom and daughters come to our sewing retreat as, like, a fun activity. And, you know, lingerie can also go into swimwear, too. So mom and daughters coming in to sew lingerie and then getting into swimwear and active wear. A lot of those skills are transferable from lingerie to activewear to swimwear. So that's the most common reason that I see why people make their own lingerie.
- [03:28]
Carol Frazier
And is it. Is it hard to do it?
- [03:30]
Maddie Kulig
This is a great question. The first pair of lingerie that I sewed, I haven't because of two reasons. One is that, again, I didn't fit into anything that within stores. Two is that I worked in technical design for urbn, which is the parent company of Anthropology, Urban Outfitters, Terrain Beholden and Free People. And my category was Intimates. And at the time, the brand didn't have their own line of intimates. So as part of my role, you would go through some, like, QC checks because you would outsource, you know, an anthropology. They would have. I'm just throwing out names here. Hypothetically, they would carry Bravo, Bella. But before they put in their stores, it needed to go through their tech department to make sure that everything was okay. So as part of a technical challenge, I was like, if I'm really going to understand this category, I should make one. And I started off with a technical challenge. And also the reason why one of my categories was also jackets, but. But working a 9 to. I say 9 to 5, but it really was like a 7 to 7 job. I didn't have a lot of time on the weekends, and I didn't want a sewing project that was going to take months because what if at the end of that month or those months, you know, there was like, a fit issue? My goodness, there goes like three months worth of sewing. So is it hard to start? One, it's a great, like, quick and easy diy, so I love it for that. Two, it's not hard to sew. What is hard is finding the right supplies. It is like a cook going into the kitchen and having, like, the best pots and pans, but, like, they have no ingredients or their ingredients are just, like, basic. So that is. I feel like that is the hardest thing that I Find with a lot of people trying to get in lingerie is that they cannot source the fabrics and the trims. And there are, you know, you can buy some elastics off Amazon, but I have worked very hard to source elastics and fabrics from the same vendors that supply Victoria's Secret. I know that name is like thrown around there don't have the best connotation right now or the reputation, but the same vendors and mills and suppliers that, you know, stock or make elastics for. For love and lemons. Victoria's Secret aerie. So we get our elastics from those same suppliers. And once you have the right tools. Game changer. Game changer. So it's not hard. What's hard is finding the right supplies. And we sell the DIY kits which you get all the supplies in, you know, one kit for, let's just say the Margot Bralette. But also, let's just say you want some more fold over elastic because you want to make a pair of panties. We also sell them by the yard as well. DIY kits are also great because once you get into the world of lingerie, there's a whole other jargon that goes with it. Pico elastic, photo elastic, wideband, elastic strap elastic. That the DIY kits are a great way to you to get familiar with them without feeling overwhelmed. And also the amounts, because the amounts vary from project to project and you know, whatever you're making. So not hard supplies is what's hard to get.
- [07:04]
Carol Frazier
Yeah. I haven't done any lingerie sewing for probably at least 20 years. And when I did, I was living in Los Angeles and I was able to get some things there. But it was. And I could get some mail order. There was a good mail order supplier, but matching colors was impossible. You could not get every piece of, you know, three or four different elastics sometimes in a single garment. And to get them all the same color was not. You couldn't do it. So everything was trimmed with white elastic. You know, that was just kind of the way it ended up being. And it wound up feeling like, oh, I've got a, you know, the fit's good, the comfort's good, but it's not kind of as cute as I wanted. So I think that if you can buy a kit and you can get, you know, everything to match, that's really nice. And that almost guarantees that you're going to have a product at the end that you think is good looking and you know that's what you want when you're doing this.
- [07:52]
Maddie Kulig
And most people come to us for our colors because we do citronelle. We do very Perry. We have dusty rose coming out next month. We have hot pink. We have copper. Those are the colors that you can't find. And we start off with. So whenever we start off with collection, it starts off with color. And we actually will have all the elastics dyed to match. And then we make our prints in house and have them printed on meshes. We are making the laces and making sure that the thread and the lace detailing matches the color of the elastics. So we do a lot of, like, R and D, but that's like my jam that gets, like, my sewing juices going when, like, everything matches. Or there's, like, if it doesn't match, there's a purpose why it's not matching.
- [08:39]
Carol Frazier
Right? Yeah, that does sound like fun. And I think that's. That can be another way of somebody wanting to get into lingerie. If you think, oh, I like this look, but I'm kind of into the, like, black thread on a pale peach, you know, trim or something like that. That has that retro sort of look that I think could be fun if you wanted to do it. And there's the option for that if you're doing it on your own. So you've just. I'm saying just. But it's. Within the last year, published your book Sew Lingerie, and it's a wonderful book. We will show a copy of a picture of the COVID here on the screen, and it can be found in the show notes as well. It clearly states on the COVID via your photograph that it is an inclusive book. Can you talk a little bit more about your goals, about inclusivity in sewing?
- [09:27]
Maddie Kulig
Yes. Inclusivity is so important to me because growing up in South Florida as a very pale, petite person, you know, the. If you're not familiar with South Florida, it's tan. You know, a lot of Latinos. I always felt like I didn't fit in, and it didn't. It didn't really register until I moved up north and I felt like I fit in up north. Not saying that there's anything wrong with South Florida, but I was like, this is. This is. This is where I belong. And I just remember that feeling of, like, not feeling like you fit in and then going lingerie shopping as well, not feeling like you fit into the. Not only, like, the sizes that are there, but just, like, the customer. And that's a. That's. That's truly a terrible feeling. And I've had people who meet me who have cried because they're like when I found you and that you included like my sizes or also you're very gender inclusive as well. Like, that meant so much to me. And so when I was writing the book and choosing the models for, you know, who goes inside as well as who's going to model the pieces as well as who can go on the COVID it was so important to not continue is not the right word, but to choose the models that would uphold that value that I have. And on the COVID there is the girl that's in the middle. Her name is. Oh, my goodness, I'm blinking right now. Oh, Liz. I was like, she's going to kill me that I forgot her name. There's Liz. She's in the middle. She is like your standard street model. She's in Boscoffs commercial and stuff like that. To the left on the COVID is Maddie, which at one point we had like three Maddie's, her fit models. So it got really confusing in here. She has alopecia. So she is bald and has no hair. And she is, you know, for a long time also felt left out. And to the right of on the COVID is, man, I'm forgetting her name, Melissa. She is a mom and she has stretch marks on her stomach. And then also in the book is somebody who is 67 and at the time was 67. And she actually the girl that. The pair that modeled the Halle and the Henrietta are a mom and daughter duo sewing together. And they really connected via sewing together when they got older. And the Mona, who is the older woman in the Henrietta, she actually is a breast cancer survivor. So after the shoot, when we did like, you know, the whole shoot with all the styles in it, she came up to me, or no, her daughter text messaged me a couple days after she. You have no idea how long it's been since my mom felt pretty and doing that. The fact that you chose her for that shoot and that she is going to be included, she couldn't stop talking about it the last couple days. And that to me is like, that's everything to me that, that, that, that you can change someone's demeanor and the way that they look at themselves in the way that. And I feel like the way that you look at yourself has a butterfly effect and the way that you look onto the world. And that is so important. So it's just a very important motto in my business model to, to, you know, include everybody. I, I try my best. It's out of habit if I'm like girls, you know, But I try to say all people as much as I can. Sometimes you're like ladies and you're like, oh man. I shouldn't say that. But again, it's just out of habit. But I try to encourage all people to wear lingerie and I've had virtual fittings with men who are older and they're. And they come on to the virtual fit and they are so embarrassed. They're like, do you have a lot of people who do this? I'm like a lot of people who do what? Wear lingerie? Yes. They're like, no, I mean like men. I'm like, yeah, you shouldn't feel ashamed by the way that you want to dress. You know, if you want to wear a skirt and you want to pull a hairy styles, go ahead. But again, it's just going back to that. It doesn't matter who you are or what gender you identify as. You can wear well fitting lingerie whether it's me made or ready made.
- [13:46]
Carol Frazier
Do you think that there's a special role for lingerie within that whole acceptance feeling more so maybe even than what you wear on the outside or as.
- [13:57]
Maddie Kulig
Much as lingerie is the closest thing that you wear to your heart. And I feel like it has such a connection to you. Feeling inclusive. It's the first thing you put on. It's like the first impression. So the first impression that you have of yourself when you get dressed is when you put on lingerie. And I feel like it has a very big impact on how you view yourself and then how you step out and view the world and present yourself to the world.
- [14:26]
Carol Frazier
I love the way that you articulate this as it being something for you. I was thinking about the old sort of mother's thing with like wear clean underwear in case you get hit by a car. So your nice underwear is for you. Getting hit by a car, that is really crazy. It's. It's much better that you do it for yourself. So what do you think are the biggest challenges for people when they're sewing lingerie?
- [14:49]
Maddie Kulig
One, as I stated before, is getting the right supplies and I've done my best to provide the right supplies and also make them affordable and shipping to all countries. The next thing is definitely fits. I feel like fits is. And pattern making is one of those things that are just so intimidating to people that they just don't even go near it. They're just, they just don't even, even when I am teaching a retreat. And it'll be like length and shorten, you know, a pattern which is like the easiest alteration to make. And like, I'll just like cut the pattern. Like usually on like the second day. The first day we do the fit sessions, the second day we like, we'll do all the pattern alterations and I'll go one by one and do everybody's because I think it's a great opportunity for people to learn from other people's fit issues. Makes you a better fitter. And I'll like cut the pattern and the amounts, not the amounts, the sounds of the gas. Like, and I'm like, I am just cutting paper that like, we are not, we are not cutting skin. This is not surge, like, you know, double bypass surgery. I'm cutting paper. If anything, if I get it wrong, I just tape it back together. So I feel like people have get so intimidated by pattern making. But really pattern making are these. Once you know the found there are a couple foundational techniques. And once you learn and understand those foundational techniques, you can almost pattern make anything. It's slashing and closing, slashing and opening. And then there are a couple other like, fundamentals. I don't want to get too much into it because that's like a whole other podcast, but there are a few fundamentals that you use everywhere. And I wish people knew that because if they did know that, I feel like they would have a little bit more confidence and courage to take a step at it. But they get so intrigued by it, and especially with underwire bras, because there are so many components that affect one another. Because if you change the under the wire seam line, then you got to make sure that the cups still fit in. So fitting is definitely an issue. But there is a methodical way to fit a bra. So when you fit a bra, an underwire bra, you just don't go like, oh, the straps are this and the band's that. Usually it's, it's bands, frame cups, straps. So you follow that methodology or that step by step process and that really helps too. So fitting is, is a big issue. But there are some standards to fitting a bra as well as some fundamentals to pattern making. That if you understand the two, really makes it a lot easier.
- [17:40]
Carol Frazier
So you were mentioning the underwires, and this is something I've always wondered about because I don't think I've made an underwire. No, maybe I did make one, but it was a long time ago and I've wondered now, like, how do you know what size of an underwire you need for A, your pattern and B, for yourself? I mean, should you Try those on kind of before you choose what size pattern to use, you know, so that you know that the wire fits you and then you get the pattern that the wire fits into. How does that work?
- [18:13]
Maddie Kulig
Oh, this is like a whole book. But I'll try to break it down into the simplest terms. How to choose an underwire. So there is such confusion around not only the sizing of bras, but also the sizing of underwires. One of the biggest reasons why I think that there is such confusion is that no under wires. So a question that I get a lot regarding the book. When, you know, a normal bra maker goes into so lingerie and they're like, where's the wire size chart? And I'm like, we actually don't have a wire size chart. Like, why not? How do you not have a wire size chart in so long dream? Like, because in the. I have to assume that people reading so lingerie are. They could live in South Africa, they could live in Australia, they could live in Zealand, they could live in Britain or uk they could live in Germany. And if I said to get a size, if I said to get a classic underwire, well, the classic underwire that I might be referring to might be different than the classic underwire that somebody in South Africa is referring to or that somebody in Australia is referring to. So I wish that the bra making gods would get together and have some sort of like international standard of bra making sizing. But they don't. They didn't. Not yet. I'm working on it. So there's no standardization within sizing of underwires. So a classic underwire at Madeline is different than a classic underwire at whoever in whatever country. So that I think is a huge reason. Second reason is that usually when a pattern maker is developing a bra or any underwire style, they will say what the recommendation is. Now, the reason why I didn't do that for sew lingerie is that in the book I show you how to manipulate a wire seam line to your underwire, which I intended for people to use. But in the new Penelope that's we came out with, it had a V wire separator and people were asking, what size V wire separator does it use? I said, it uses a 65, but I'd rather you refer to the wire that is actually on the pattern. I gave like a little outline so that you can compare that to wherever you're getting it from. So that's the, that's the reason why there's such confusion. So how do you find your right size. So step number one, find a pattern. Let's just say it's the right underwire bra from SO lingerie. Step number two is find out what underwire is meant for that bra. Classic underwire bra. Then I would use the measuring guide to measure what size you are. Usually involves a full bust and an underbust. Sometimes there is a high bust, but that wasn't used for SO lingerie. Then you find your what size that you think should. Let's just say I'm throwing an arbitrary number here. 34. I would suggest buying a 32, a 34, and a 36. Things happen in sewing, things happen in fitting. Things happen with your fabric that you might have to go up or down a size, but at least you have those three sizes on hands. Now you have your size that you're supposed to make. Next thing is to make sure that, that the U shape of that wire fits your U shape, which is called your inframammary folds. It's where the breast tissue comes away from the chest wall and making sure that that U shape matches your U shape. And many times it doesn't. So then you have to start your search of finding an underwire that does match your U shape and then adjusting your pattern to match that. Everything starts with the underwire. I taught a class at a local university, and they brought me in for their final foundational class for their seniors. Their dresses had already been made and then they were going to build in a bra into it. And I was like, no, you like did everything backwards. You needed to start with the bra and then build your dress on top. So the same thing is with underwires. I would suggest just buying a bunch of underwires and seeing which one best fits you and then adjusting your patterns to fit that underwear. Because once you have an underwire that fits, it's like, it's like wearing a killer pair of shoes. They can be so comfortable or they can be a killer pair of shoes, literally. So it really starts with just finding an underwire that fits. And you, you can use a fitting band, which is basically sewing an underwire bra without the cups. You can transfer the U shape onto manila or cardstock paper and holding it up to your infra memory fold to make sure that that U shape fits. Or you can literally put the underwire up to your breast and seeing if it fits. So those are the ways to find another way. And it's. It definitely is a journey. I usually say expect about three to four minimum bras for full Bus in order to get your right underwire minimum. And usually with smaller sizes like A through D cups, usually two to three. So. Yeah, I know that sounds like a lot, but it's. You learn a lot about your body when you actually go through that process well.
- [23:34]
Carol Frazier
And I can imagine once you've done it, as long as you are more or less staying the same size and shape, you can just carry on and make as many as you want after that. It's, it's kind of a one time fitting thing. And that, that's so much better than every time you want or need a bra to go to a store and start from scratch again with what they have, which is often not good. And you know, you're stuck with whatever shape they offer in the store. So this is actually ultimately it's an investment in like a future of nice lingerie that's relatively easy to get. I feel like the bras I've made were surprisingly fast to sew. I was shocked because there's a lot of little pieces and a lot of things that you have to do, but it came out much more quickly. All of a sudden it's there in front of you and you didn't even remember going through all the processes. And it's really. Can be a lot of fun to do. Yeah. For anybody who hasn't done it, I would certainly recommend it. And maybe don't give up if the first one isn't a great fit.
- [24:28]
Maddie Kulig
Oh, definitely not. Yeah, definitely not. I mean, you should have seen my first pair of underwear. They were fugly. They were fugly. So you, I mean, one of my favorite quotes or mottos or whatever you want to call it, euphemisms is fail. Fail is not something to be ashamed of. Fail to me is first attempt in learning. So you learn. It's a learning opportunity. You fail hard, you feel fast, you feel forward, you move on.
- [24:56]
Carol Frazier
That's actually a great thing to remind everybody who's sewing because there's going to always be failures. I think that for example, if you're making underwear bottoms, you can often find a good pattern and then just keep on making those too. And that tends to be like a quick win, which is nice. You know, the bras may take a little longer, but sometimes the bottom half is a little bit easier to do if you, you know, if you get the pattern that fits you. I was going to say I can't say the word panties on this thing because for some reason it's one of those words that I don't like. People don't like the word moist. I don't know why. Growing up, my sisters and I are always like, ooh, panties. So we say underwear, but gonna say, how did you gotten over it? Just by just sheer usage?
- [25:36]
Maddie Kulig
I've gotten over.
- [25:37]
Carol Frazier
At this point, I will be working toward that.
- [25:40]
Maddie Kulig
Yeah, we. Yeah, there. I mean, there are a lot of panties in the studio, so I got over a long time ago. Panties, knickers, whatever. Thongs, g shrinks, whatever you want to call it.
- [25:51]
Carol Frazier
Right, right. So when you're. When you're sewing, if you're making lingerie, what do you prioritize? Comfort or looks?
- [26:01]
Maddie Kulig
The designer in me says looks. I wish you could spend a day in here when we, like, when all my girls are in here and we're doing, like, a brainstorm sesh. Like, we get so into, like, the brainstorming and the color patterns, the color matching, the pattern mixing like that. If it's. If it fit is off a little bit, that's okay. As long as it's not painful. Like, painful is a different story. But, like, as long as it's, like, in the ballpark as, like, it's cute.
- [26:27]
Threads Magazine Host
You look great.
- [26:28]
Maddie Kulig
Like, I think that I am definitely more into the look rather than the fit. Not tight. And that doesn't mean that fit isn't important, but let's just say I mean that in the sense of if I made something and the fit wasn't 100%, but the design was incredible, I'd be like, it's okay. I'm still going to. I'm still going to wear this out and rock it. It's fine. I'll put a jacket over it and I'll still feel great.
- [26:52]
Carol Frazier
Okay, that's very good to know. That's very good information. I think that everybody should have some underwear that is so comfortable, you're not aware that you have it on. And some underwear that you can go out and know that it looks amazing, even if there's a little pinch here.
- [27:08]
Maddie Kulig
And we wear a lot of our lingerie as outerwear, too, so.
- [27:12]
Carol Frazier
Oh, I think when people see some of the images in your article, they will. They will understand why. Because they're so pretty. They're just so pretty. And they're. They're beautiful. You know, they have a sort of youthfulness, but they're also sophisticated. And that's just a really nice area where I think your designs land, where it's not Fredericks of Hollywood by any stretch, and it's also not Target preteen. It's somewhere where, like, a nice adult person might want to be seen wearing them. So that's good.
- [27:41]
Maddie Kulig
Yeah. Well thank you.
- [27:43]
Carol Frazier
Well and thank you so much for joining us Maddie, everybody. Please look for your fall issue. It should be coming out in mid August and you can read about some bra fitting tips from Maddie. Very helpful including the sequence for getting all the different parts of your bra to fit and also in your local bookstore or I would imagine Amazon.com check out her book for more information. She's got lots of styles in there and lots of things to try. Thanks again Maddie.
- [28:14]
Maddie Kulig
Thanks so much for having me and I'm so excited to see the feature and the fall issue.
- [28:20]
Threads Magazine Host
Thank you to our guests for joining us and thanks to all of you for listening. Please remember to send your comments, questions and suggestions to thdsmagazine.com and please like comment and subscribe wherever you are listening. Until next time. Keep on sewing with threads.