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[00:00]
A
Welcome to the Thriving with Addiction podcast, where we explore how recovery is not just about surviving, but about truly living. Each week, we'll dive into the science stories and strategies that help people and families heal from addiction and build healthier, more resilient lives.
[00:16]
B
I'm your host, Dr. John Avery.
[00:18]
A
Let's get started.
[00:24]
B
I'm John Avery, and welcome back to Thriving with Addiction. Today we're joined by Chris Herring. Chris is a former NBA player, author, and nationally recognized recovery advocate who has become one of the leading voices on addiction, mental wellness, and prevention. Sober since 2008, Chris has shared his story with more than 2 million students, athletes, and community members through Heron Talks, encouraging honest conversations about substance use, self esteem, and emotional health. His journey was featured in the memoir basketball junkie, the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary unguarded, and the prevention focused film the First Day. Heron is also the founder of Heron Project, a nonprofit supporting individuals and families affected by addiction, and Heron Wellness, a residential recovery and wellness program based in Secom. Chris, welcome.
[01:15]
C
Thank you. Great to be here.
[01:17]
B
You've done a lot. That's a lot of things and a lot of really important, I think, interventions and programs that have helped a lot of people.
[01:25]
C
Yeah, I mean, I'm incredibly proud. You know, I really, when I first got sober, I didn't have necessarily a direction I wanted to go, but I know I, I never envisioned, you know, what I've been able to do because of recovery for the last 17 and a half years. You know, I, I, I had no intention on speaking. It just a door opened and I walked through it, and I've been on the other side of it ever since. So the mission of just one has always been kind of my mantra. And thankfully, and God willing, we've been able to impact so many more, so
[02:13]
B
many over these 17 years. And I understand Heron Projects just celebrated 15 years. And you ran the Boston Marathon to celebrate that, is that right?
[02:21]
C
I did. I did. It's My wife and I, you know, we ran it together. You know, this is, this is not just my illness. You know, it's ours. It's not just my recovery. It's our recovery. You know, we, we've walked through this journey together, shoulder to shoulder. You know, she's experienced her own trauma and has, you know, her story as well. And to run the Boston Marathon knowing that, you know, every step mattered and we were going to be able to impact so many because of it, it was really special.
[03:00]
B
No, that's so key and so, so amazing that you've been able to do it. Together throughout the years. I happen to read that your first marathon in 2014 was, was even more eventful. Is that right? And you're not a natural marathon runner, but you do it for a good cause.
[03:16]
C
I do. It's all about the mission, right? It's all about the cause. I'm not competing. I'm not, I'm not out there with, with any goals in mind that's around the marathon. It really is just, just for the cause. And you know, it takes a little bit of the pressure off, but it's an incredible accomplishment. It's an incredible feat. I mean, you know, 26 miles is quite a distance, but it's the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles you have to go through by yourself or with your partner in order to accomplish that, to cross the line.
[03:57]
B
Well, if anyone could do it, I imagine it's you. You were a gifted athlete from day one. I've seen those videos of you playing ball as a high schooler. Did sports and athletics always come naturally for you?
[04:12]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, genetics, I was born into it in a sense. I was probably forced fed basketball because of my, my family, from my lineage. Does it mean I necessarily enjoyed it? But I was, I was good enough at it for sure. And you know, I've been somewhat a competitor most of my life. So to, to, to do that marathon, to, to. To accomplish that goal, you know, it brought back that little fire inside of me somewhat and take me back to
[04:49]
B
growing up a little bit. Basketball was a huge part of it, as you were saying, but so is drinking and substances a little. Walk me through some of the origin story to start.
[04:58]
C
Yeah, you know, I mean, I think I started, you know, sadly like most kids start, right. Like I, I started in the woods, you know, in my neighborhood. And I started with somebody else, some adults, alcohol, you know, whether it was my father's or my friend's parents. And you know, that's why my, with the documentary, I think that, you know, we put so much emphasis on what's going to happen to you because of drugs and alcohol in the end. And we forget the beginning and we forget day one. You know, my day one was like most. And you know, I, I started socially drinking, you know, in high school. But as an athlete who was extremely competitive and traveling the country, I wasn't around a lot. You know, a gentleman wrote a book about me when I was 16 years old and he spent a significant amount of time, almost a year and a half. And you know, he always would say to me Like, I. I never saw it coming. You know, I didn't see your behavior didn't match up with what happened later on in life. But, you know, I opened that door. You know, I took that step. I started that process, and, you know, it all. You know, when I look back on it and I share this when I speak, you know, I. My dad. My dad struggles with alcoholism, and, you know, as a little boy, I knew I didn't know what alcoholism was, but I knew it was a beer that caused the problem. And, you know, when people talk about my story, they want to, you know, oftentimes reference back to, like, my OxyContin days in the Boston Celtics. And for me, as a father, as an adult who's 50 years old, like, to me, the day one was the saddest for me, you know, because although I wasn't educated around alcoholism, I knew that that beard was not healthy in my home, and it impacted not only myself, my brother, but my mom and our family.
[07:01]
B
Right. No, I think that's one of the powerful things about your. The way when you tell your story and about the first day, and it is often overlooked. I mean, some of the other behaviors are sometimes louder, but it all comes from that initial place, both the first drink, but also for some of those feelings. What do you think alcohol did for you back then or substances in those early years?
[07:24]
C
You know, I think it. I used it as an escape. Right. Like, I think my. My parents marriage was struggling during my teenage years. They eventually divorced when I was 19. But I think. I think the instability of family and what was going on in my house, I think it played a big factor. I think you roll in the success I had as a young athlete and the pressure that came with it. Oftentimes felt it was welcoming for me to kind of just be one of. And not, you know, the guy, you know, and I actually kind of adopted that kind of mantra like that, you know, I just want to be like everybody else. And, you know, and I fell victim to that as well.
[08:13]
B
And then how did things progress over time? I mean, your athletics really progressed onto being a college star and then to the NBA. But you carried the addiction with you, is that right?
[08:24]
C
I did. I mean, it was. It was always there, you know, incredibly, you know, was significantly unaddressed. But, you know, to the. To the coaches, to the parents, to the family in my life back then, I mean, it was. It wasn't easy to identify. I think it became easy to identify when, you know, I was 18 years old and I. And I Was introduced to cocaine. You know, at 18 years old, being in the McDonald's All American game, featured in Sports Illustrated, getting ready to start my season at Boston College. And, you know, I opened the wrong door one night and that, and that door, behind that door was cocaine. And you know, that was basically, to me, that was the red flag that went up that, you know, unfortunately as well it was, it was kind of unaddressed. When I was a 18 year old college kid playing high level basketball, it was more about punishing and punitive than it was education and prevention and recovery. Good, good.
[09:31]
B
Is it right? So there really wasn't an opening for you to address it, be open and honest about it, especially because things probably felt pretty high stakes for you.
[09:40]
C
I was dismissed from Boston College and I kind of ran away from the headlines. And I said, you know, let me go to the furthest place I can go to in the middle of nowhere in Fresno. And when I landed there, I had people who wanted to help me get sober and stay sober. You know, I had coaches who brought me to AA meetings for the first time. So I was introduced to that community at around 20 years old. And while I still struggled at Fresno, you know, the reaction from Fresno State University was like, you know, not only are we going to punish you and or suspend you, but we're going to help you. And I went to treatment for the first time. I was 21 years old and I was put on a plane to go to a residential treatment center in Salt Lake City, Utah. So that was my introduction to treatment. And you know, for me today, as a sober, a sober man and kind of what I've dedicated my life to is, is, is kind of changing that stigma of how I felt when I went to treatment. Like, I felt like I was just being shunned. I felt like they were punishing me, like I had to. It was my penance. Like, you just, you just get away from us for a certain amount of time and we'll let you come back. It wasn't, they didn't make the opportunity attractive to me. And I think, you know, that's, that's what I've tried to do over the last, you know, especially at my wellness center. You know, I have 15 young adults here right now and I want them to feel gratitude for this. Like this is a time where we can improve and get better in every facet of your life. So I was, I was fortunate to be introduced to recovery at a young age.
[11:35]
B
Right. And I mean, what you say is so spot on. I mean, if we frame it as punishment, withholding, as opposed to a real opportunity for growth and to get treatment and help, I mean, that's a huge difference in terms of how we. We message it. And I think we've made some gains, but a lot of it is still very punishing today.
[11:53]
C
Yeah, you know, I mean, I was watching Rich roll the other day, and, you know, it's crazy. When I was on his. On his podcast, and it's like, you know, good. It becomes very evident. It's like jails, institution, or death for not all, but for some. And I. That was, for me, I fell in that category. It's gonna die, go to jail, or be institutionalized. And, And. Or you can take one step this way and live to the most fulfilling life you've ever dreamed of. And, you know, it's. It's that powerful that we stay on, on. On this side of the line. And, you know, I think it's incredibly important to frame this process about, you know, self improvement and an opportunity and a. A time in your life to kind of unplug and reset. And, you know, that's what I've done at Heron Wellness. That's kind of the messaging that I've wanted to give here for the last eight years when people come on this campus, and it's a beautiful reset.
[12:58]
B
And then for your story, you made it out of college to the MBA and back to Boston. And while you had some inkling that substance use was an issue, you ended up falling in with the oxy and the pills ultimately. Is that right?
[13:13]
C
Correct. I was introduced to OxyContin. I believe it was right around 1999, 2000. You know, the only thing I knew, I was probably six months into OxyContin when I saw that the term hillbilly heroin, it became this national news story that, you know, the state of West Virginia and Kentucky are in a epidemic because of a pill called OxyContin. And unfortunately, I was probably already six months into it, and, you know, it was something that I didn't plan for. I had really no idea. I had taken painkillers in the past, Vicodins and percocets. But at 20 years old, playing in the NBA, introduced to OxyContin put me on a path that, you know, almost killed me.
[14:10]
B
And what ultimately led you to make that final step into sobriety and stop. Stop using that and everything else?
[14:17]
C
Yeah, you know, I mean, I probably battled with OxyContin for, like, five to eight years. And, you know, I did almost the unnatural transition, natural transition. However you want to frame it of, of falling into heroin, you know, and I became an IV heroin user. I was, I was shooting heroin throughout my professional basketball career, but I started to overdose. You know, it became very evident, you know, the first time it became very public for me. I had just got done playing with the Celtics, and, and I was found in my car, overdosed. And that became a huge story in this area. And, you know, that arrest, that, that, that moment, you know, made everybody who loved me aware that, you know, the struggle that I was going through was much more severe than, than they thought. So, you know, I, I struggled with oxycontin, I struggled with heroin, and, and I kind of ended with vodka. You know, I, I, There was nothing left for me. I, I couldn't afford, you know, my, the money I had spent on, on opiates was incredible, and I, I just, I couldn't afford a habit like that, and I transitioned to vodka. So for the last couple of years, in my early 30s, I was primarily a vodka drinker, you know, with two pints, two and a half pints a day. And, and I was dying and I, Alcohol for me was not, I wasn't, I wasn't attractive. I wasn't fun to be around. I became, I became a monster with alcohol. And thankfully, you know, I was, I had an opportunity to get some heroin, and I had a lot of vodka in my system, and my system shut down and I overdosed and I was once again arrested, brought to the hospital, and, you know, the rest is kind of history for me. You know, that's, that was my entry point to getting sober 18, 18 years ago.
[16:33]
B
And when you look back on those years in your 20s, 30s, and its impact on your basketball career and your relationships in life, what, what is it, what comes to mind as you, as you think about all that?
[16:46]
C
You know, I, I think the reality is, you know, I'm still navigating my way through those years. You know, I, I, they, for me, they don't go away. You know, I, I impacted the people closest to me and the people who love me as, you know, my children who are now adults. So we've, we've, we've revisited, you know, we've gone back, we've, we've done what was necessary to kind of find our way through that history together. But, you know, forgiveness is tricky. You know, I'm, I'm much better at forgiving than I, than I, than I am to be forgiven. And, you know, I've, I've done, you know, although I've been sober for coming up on 18 years. I've. I've done an incredible amount of work the last three years. I was introduced to IFS and emdr and, you know, I did. I'm still currently doing that every Friday from 10:30 to 12 for three years. And it's just given me so much peace in my life. It's given me a lot of peace. It's given me a lot of space. It's allowed me to. To communicate and, and navigate that way through. Through the process with my children and my wife, and it's. It's been incredible freedom.
[18:11]
B
And for those that aren't familiar with those treatments, maybe you can discuss just briefly what they are and then how they were helpful with, with, I guess, trauma of all of it.
[18:19]
C
Yeah, you know, ifs is internal family systems. You know, it's. There's parts of me that were. That needed to be seen, heard, revealed, healed. You know, they, they were reactive and, and they. I needed to. You know, my therapist says it's almost like a time machine. I had to go back and, and work through some of these traumatic moments of my life and kind of change the narrative around them and change the story. You know, I became part of that moment as an adult, and I knew what to do. I knew what I needed. So that trauma work for me was, was. It was so incredibly important. You know, I was 15 years sober, and I was losing my grip. I was losing my grip on recovery. Fifteen years sober was probably the toughest year I ever had in recovery. It was tougher than year one. And, you know, I. Thankfully I. I was introduced to this therapist, and, you know, he's just, he's just giving me so much, right? Like, you know, just, just this simple gesture of to just ask. You know, just ask. You know, don't, don't assume, don't anticipate. Just ask. And that's been incredibly helpful with my, with my children and, you know, just like, for me to retreat, regroup, and return, you know, like, I've never had that. I'm always, I'm always a go guy, you know, and so, so any, any instability, any confrontation, you know, I'm wired to run full speed at it and address it. You know, what this has done is giving me the, the, the time to recognize it, walk away from it, process it, and come back to do it and deal with it as an adult, you know. So, you know, it's just those little tools that I've developed over the years in this type of therapy that has been incredibly Helpful?
[20:38]
B
No, I think that that's a powerful moment and a powerful reminder that just because one enters recovery doesn't mean everything goes away. And there are moments along recovery when we have to dive into other stuff in more depth in order to get a better sense from ourselves. Because those initial years, you manage recovery mainly with, with 12 step work, or what was it that sustained those early years?
[21:00]
C
A lot of grit, a lot of 12 step work. And, and trust me, like, that is, that is my work, right? Like, I, that is who I am. You know, I'm a 12 step guy. I don't think it's for everybody, but it was for me. And it, and it gave me so much in my life. You know, I love the community, I love claiming my seat, I love serving, helping others. Like that's, that's kind of who I am. But it didn't make me perfect. Right? It didn't make me perfect. And, and there was still a lot of work that needed to be done. And, you know, I'm, I'm just so thankful that I was able to get out in front of it before it came, before it got me. And I, you know, you know, there's a thing in, in, in ifs called the eight Cs and you know, with the eight Cs and, and I won't go over them, but like, you know, courage, community, curiosity. You know, when I lose my curiosity in life, I, I'm not in a good space. And you know, I, I was introduced to that process through this, and it's been incredibly helpful for me going forward.
[22:14]
B
And what you said about this sort of pressure to be perfect resonated with me because I imagine as a basketball player there's that incredible pressure to be that way. And then as a public someone who's so outspoken about the recovery, who's had their narrative covered by all sorts of media outlets and books and films, there's probably a similar pressure to almost just stick to that narrative and be perfect in that way that's been told already.
[22:38]
C
Yeah, you know, I mean, I think that was kind of a struggle for me. Right. I'm like, here I am, I, I have families, you know, who believe in my message, who believe in my model, who believe in how I do things in recovery. And I, I could not hide that from anyone. You know, I had to say, like, you know, although I'm sober, although I'm in recovery, although I talk recovery work, work in recovery, live recovery, you know, recovery can be bumpy. You know, it can get a little bumpy. It can get a little turbulent. And again, you know, for me, I don't know where I would be if I didn't walk into that office that day, but I know where I am now because of how I walked in that office, and it's. It's just incredible.
[23:28]
B
Wow. And tell me a little bit more about your wife and your family in your recovery. You mentioned it was important to run that marathon with her, and I think she was a part of all the bumps along the way. Is that right?
[23:41]
C
Oh, gosh, yeah. She's been on the bumps. We've known each other since we were 12, so we've known each other for 38 years. She knew me before, she knew me during, and she knows me after.
[23:55]
B
So.
[23:56]
C
Yeah. Hey, you know, this impacts whoever's close to it. Right. Like, it made my wife incredible. I'm not going to tell her story, but, you know, it made her incredibly sick. You know, I mean, she's raising three children, and she has me running on the streets, overdosing, completely disrupting her world, my children's world. And the fact that she gave me the time to go through this process, you know, I mean, I. I could never. I could never, never pay her back. But that's why I referenced the Boston Marathon, because, you know, oftentimes I'm the one out in front. And the reality is, is she's shoulder to shoulder with me, and she has been since day one.
[24:44]
B
Yes. Your honesty and the way you tell your story, it continues to evolve, and it continues to really help people. Talk a little bit about the different things you're doing to help people. I mean, so many different, great initiatives from Heron Talks the First Day, the project, your facility there. So walk me through the menu and I think highlight the First Day, because that's really one of the best prevention films that I've ever seen and one I often am a part of in terms of screenings for it.
[25:12]
C
Yeah, I mean, the First Day is my. Is my. Is the crown jewel, in my opinion, you know, of the work that I've been able to put together over the last, you know, 15 years or so. You know, I felt as if, you know, I. And I say this with humility. You know, I have this incredible, volatile, bumpy story that reached great heights and incredible depths. And, you know, I traveled the country for eight years telling that story, and I just felt as if I was kind of playing into the stigma to the narrative of putting so much emphasis into shocking, scaring children about addiction. And, you know, I'm so incredibly thankful that you know, I kind of had that moment where I was like, I need to pivot this, I have their audience, I need to speak more about them and their language and where they're at in their life and where I was at at their age. So, you know, the first day is everything for me. It's kind of, it's the foundation of what I do today.
[26:33]
B
And I think one of the core messages as opposed to scaring people about drugs that you're conveying to kids is almost that it's just okay to be them. Is that. Right. That, that there's a lot of difficult feelings and be aware of what you might do to medicate them and recognize your worth and value and, and, and get the help.
[26:52]
C
Yeah. And honestly, even a little before that, just the preventative, like, you don't have to, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to follow that path like you will find your way through if you stay there. I, I, you know, I have, I have children that navigated their way through those years without alcohol and drugs. And you know, trust me, there were many nights I was like, oh, you know, they're not having the fun I envision them having that 16, 17 years old. But you know, they had their own community of friends that chose, you know, abstinence at that time. But yeah, you know, I think if, you know, I'm constantly talking to parents and you know, I often ask them like, okay, we've identified where, when he started, where he gets it, how he gets it, what he's doing, or she. Have you asked them why? And most parents don't ask what. Most parents kind of want to shut the faucet off. Like, I'm going to isolate you from that group. I'm going to keep you here in front of me, I'm going to, I'm going to keep track or track your phone and I'm going to know where you are at all times. But why?
[28:13]
B
Right. And I think sometimes people assume the why is because you're like a bad person or a troublemaker, but the real why points to something deeper.
[28:22]
C
Absolutely. And that's that, that's been the joy that I've, I've received over the last, you know, 10 years doing the first day is that, you know, kids identify their why and kids share their why. And you know, I, I didn't share my why until I was probably 33, 34 years old. And I have 16 year old, 15 year old students letting me into their world and telling me their why. And I Think once we, if we can get them there in that self reflection moment, go back to class and, and think about, you know, their family and the people that love them and, and, and you know, the example they're setting for the younger kids in their family, if they're a big brother or a big sister, you know, I think those are things that, you know, put them in a space to think about who they're becoming and the things they're doing. So, you know, Heron project we started 15 years ago. It's, it's, it's done, you know, much more than I ever envisioned. I, I kind of started with a mission of just helping one and it's become thousands and thousands of people. You know, Heron Wellness is, is my dream come true in a sense. I created this wellness campus, this wellness center that is extremely holistic and with, with different modalities of, of, of recovery here. But just like the, just the self improvement, right? Like I needed a win and, and you know, at 32 years old, I needed to get better. Not just at not doing drugs and alcohol. I needed to improve in every facet of my life. And you know, when, when people come in, come to come to this campus, you know, we focus on every facet. You know, whether it's nutrition, whether it's physical, you know, whether it's working with the personal trainer, yoga, meditation, breath work, acupuncture, massage therapy, you know, we do it all and, and it just, you know, it gives them some wins and, and that's what I love about this place.
[30:42]
B
And now for all these years sober and for doing the therapy, what's, what's life like for you these days?
[30:47]
C
Life is good. Life is good. I'm not, you know, I, I, I have my moments. You know, I, I, I definitely have my moments. You know, I'm still, I'm still in therapy. You know, it's not, life isn't perfect, it's not a straight line. But I'm trying, you know, I'm putting the effort in. You know, I think that question, and I'm very proud of that, I think that question, if asked to my children would say, you know, my dad is so much better than he used to be. And, and that's, that's kind of my aim, you know, if, if my kids answer that question, you know. Yeah, that's all I can ask for.
[31:31]
B
And your story is notable for your real ability to change. You know, a lot of people go through life and find change very hard, but you've had to do it on the biggest stage multiple times. And even in recovery, when you think it's all set to still sort of be honest and to make those adjustments, I think it's a great example for everybody.
[31:50]
C
I hope so. You know, I think one of my. And again, it's. I don't want to sound like I think recovery is my. Is my superpower. Right. Like, I think it.
[32:01]
B
It's.
[32:02]
C
Is the greatest gift that I've been given personally. But I was also blessed because of, you know, the way I walked into recovery and the people who I surrounded myself with that, like, vulnerability is a superpower, right? Like, just let it go, you know, And I've been okay with letting it go. And, you know, oftentimes people say to me, like, you know, you're almost too forthcoming and honest. And, you know, for me, I have to be. It's worked for me.
[32:37]
B
No, I think it's your real strength as well. Well, Chris, you're fantastic. I appreciate you taking the time to share your story and everything that you're doing with us today.
[32:45]
C
Oh, of course.
[32:46]
A
Thanks for listening to the Thriving with Addiction podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, please follow and subscribe. Wherever you listen to your podcasts and share it with someone who might benefit, you can also connect with me on Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube or visit thrivingwithaddiction.com to learn more. Stay tuned for next week's episode. And remember, thriving is possible.

Summary7 min read

Podcast Summary: Thriving with Addiction with Dr. Jonathan Avery

Episode: From the NBA to Recovery: Growth, Purpose, and Giving Back with Chris Herren

Air Date: July 21, 2026
Host: Dr. Jonathan Avery
Guest: Chris Herren, former NBA player, author, recovery advocate

Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, Dr. Jonathan Avery sits down with Chris Herren, former NBA player and renowned recovery advocate. Through a candid, heartfelt conversation, Chris traces his journey from promising young athlete to addiction, near-fatal overdoses, public scandal, and ultimately long-term recovery. The discussion explores the origins of addiction in adolescence, the evolving nature of recovery, personal and familial healing, and Chris's ongoing dedication to helping others through organizations like Herren Project and innovative media such as the acclaimed "The First Day" prevention film.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins of Addiction: Early Exposure and Family Influence

Chris’s entry into substance use began much like many adolescents: “I started in the woods… with somebody else’s, some adult’s alcohol, whether it was my father’s or my friend’s parents. That was my day one.” (04:57, Chris)
He reflects on the impact of his father’s alcoholism: “Although I wasn’t educated around alcoholism, I knew that that beer was not healthy in my home, and it impacted not only myself, my brother, but my mom and our family.” (06:10, Chris)
Key insight: The story isn’t just about dramatic endings, but significant, overlooked beginnings—how early family dynamics and exposure set the stage for later substance use.

2. Pressure, Success, and Escapism in Youth Athletics

As a celebrated young basketball player, Chris felt both pressure and a desire to fit in:
“Oftentimes felt it was welcoming for me to kind of just be one of. And not, you know, the guy.” (07:24, Chris)

3. Escalation and Pivotal Moments

From alcohol to cocaine and opiates:
“I was 18 years old, being in the McDonald’s All American game… opened the wrong door one night and that door… was cocaine. That was the red flag for me.” (08:23, Chris)
First encounter with institutional reactions:
- Dismissed from Boston College; moved to Fresno State, where “I had coaches who brought me to AA meetings… The reaction from Fresno State University was not only are we going to punish you… but we’re going to help you.” (09:40, Chris)
- Chris was introduced to treatment at 21, but felt it was a punishment, not an opportunity for growth:
  “They didn’t make the opportunity attractive to me… I felt like I was just being shunned.” (10:20, Chris)
The shift in framing treatment as growth, not punishment:
- "If we frame it as punishment, withholding, as opposed to a real opportunity for growth and to get treatment and help, that’s a huge difference." (11:35, Dr. Avery)
- Chris wants recovery settings to feel like “a beautiful reset.” (12:57, Chris)

4. Addiction's Progression and Impact

Introduction to OxyContin and eventual heroin use:
“At 20 years old, playing in the NBA, introduced to OxyContin put me on a path that almost killed me.” (13:12, Chris)
Overdoses and public wake-up calls:
“I started to overdose… I was found in my car, overdosed. That moment made everybody who loved me aware… the struggle was much more severe.” (14:17, Chris)

5. Recovery, Relapse, and Long-Term Healing

Hitting rock bottom and achieving sobriety:
- Transitioned from heroin to heavy alcohol use before finally entering sobriety after a critical overdose and arrest.
- “There was nothing left for me… I was dying… my system shut down and I overdosed and was once again arrested… that was my entry point to getting sober 18 years ago.” (14:17–16:45, Chris)
Lingering impact on relationships:
“I’m much better at forgiving than I am to be forgiven.” (16:45, Chris)
- Chris emphasizes ongoing work, especially with his children and wife, using therapeutic modalities like IFS and EMDR.
  “It’s given me a lot of peace… allowed me to communicate and navigate together.” (18:11, Chris)

6. Evolving Tools for Recovery: Therapy Beyond 12 Steps

Internal Family Systems (IFS) and trauma work:
- “There’s parts of me that needed to be seen, heard, revealed, healed… trauma work for me was so incredibly important.” (18:18, Chris)
- After 15 years sober, “I was losing my grip… I was introduced to this therapist and he’s given me so much.” (18:18–19:50, Chris)
- Simple but profound lessons: “Just ask… Don’t assume, don’t anticipate, just ask.” (19:30, Chris)
The role of the 12 Steps:
“I’m a 12-step guy. I don’t think it’s for everybody, but it was for me. But it didn’t make me perfect… there was still a lot of work that needed to be done.” (21:00, Chris)

7. Perfectionism, Public Narrative, and Vulnerability

Chris addresses the pressure to be seen as perfect in recovery, especially with his public profile:
“Although I’m sober, although I talk recovery, work in recovery, live recovery, recovery can be bumpy… I had to say that honestly to the people who believed in me.” (22:38, Chris)
On vulnerability as a strength:
“Recovery is my superpower… vulnerability is a superpower. Just let it go, you know, and I’ve been okay with letting it go.” (31:49–32:37, Chris)

8. Family Healing and Partnership

Chris shares the importance of his wife’s support throughout his journey:
“We’ve known each other since we were 12… she knew me before, during, and after.” (23:40, Chris)
- “I could never pay her back… she’s shoulder to shoulder with me, and she has been since day one.” (24:43, Chris)

9. Giving Back: Prevention, Advocacy, and Innovations in Recovery

The First Day film:
Considered his “crown jewel,” Chris’s film pivots away from shock tactics, focusing on prevention and honest conversations about the origins of substance use:
- “I have this story that reached great heights and incredible depths… I knew I needed to pivot this… The First Day is everything for me.” (25:11, Chris)
Message to today’s youth:
“It’s just okay to be them… you don’t have to follow that path.” (26:51, Chris)
- Key advice to parents: “Most parents want to shut the faucet off… but why? Have you asked them why?” (27:51, Chris)
Herren Project and Herren Wellness:
- Born from a mission of “just helping one,” these projects have impacted thousands.
- Herren Wellness offers holistic healing: “When people come in, we focus on every facet—nutrition, personal training, yoga, meditation, acupuncture, massage therapy… It gives them some wins, and that’s what I love about this place.” (28:22–30:42, Chris)

10. Living in Recovery Today

Life after addiction is not “perfect” but is purposeful and honest:
“Life isn’t perfect, it’s not a straight line. But I’m trying, I’m putting the effort in… If my kids answer, my dad is so much better than he used to be, that’s all I can ask for.” (30:47–31:31, Chris)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On recovery’s true power:
“Recovery is my superpower. Vulnerability is a superpower. Just let it go… and I’ve been okay with letting it go.”
— Chris Herren (31:49, 32:37)
On facing stigma in treatment:
“I felt like they were punishing me, like it was my penance… They didn’t make the opportunity attractive to me.”
— Chris Herren (10:20)
On genuine prevention:
“Most parents want to shut the faucet off… but why? Have you asked them why?”
— Chris Herren (27:51)
On family healing:
“She’s shoulder to shoulder with me, and she has been since day one.”
— Chris Herren (24:43)
On ongoing growth:
“Although I’m sober… recovery can be bumpy. I had to say that honestly to the people who believed in me.”
— Chris Herren (22:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Origin story of substance use & family influences: 04:48–07:01
Escapism, pressure, and early athletics: 07:24
College, cocaine, and first treatment experience: 08:23–11:35
OxyContin, heroin, and career impact: 13:12–14:17
Turning point: overdose, arrest, and entry to meaningful recovery: 14:17–16:45
Therapy and trauma work (IFS/EMDR): 18:11–21:00
Public narrative & giving back through advocacy: 25:11–28:22
Life and family in long-term recovery: 23:40, 30:47–32:37

Conclusion

Chris Herren’s story is a testament to the power of honesty, vulnerability, and the ongoing nature of healing. The episode explores crucial lessons in framing recovery as an opportunity, not a punishment, and the importance of addressing the “why” behind substance use. From sharing his hard-won insights to building organizations and prevention programs that impact thousands, Chris models a recovery that is honest, relational, and deeply compassionate—not only for himself, but for families and communities everywhere.

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Transcript54 lines

[00:00]
A
Welcome to the Thriving with Addiction podcast, where we explore how recovery is not just about surviving, but about truly living. Each week, we'll dive into the science stories and strategies that help people and families heal from addiction and build healthier, more resilient lives.
[00:16]
B
I'm your host, Dr. John Avery.
[00:18]
A
Let's get started.
[00:24]
B
I'm John Avery, and welcome back to Thriving with Addiction. Today we're joined by Chris Herring. Chris is a former NBA player, author, and nationally recognized recovery advocate who has become one of the leading voices on addiction, mental wellness, and prevention. Sober since 2008, Chris has shared his story with more than 2 million students, athletes, and community members through Heron Talks, encouraging honest conversations about substance use, self esteem, and emotional health. His journey was featured in the memoir basketball junkie, the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary unguarded, and the prevention focused film the First Day. Heron is also the founder of Heron Project, a nonprofit supporting individuals and families affected by addiction, and Heron Wellness, a residential recovery and wellness program based in Secom. Chris, welcome.
[01:15]
C
Thank you. Great to be here.
[01:17]
B
You've done a lot. That's a lot of things and a lot of really important, I think, interventions and programs that have helped a lot of people.
[01:25]
C
Yeah, I mean, I'm incredibly proud. You know, I really, when I first got sober, I didn't have necessarily a direction I wanted to go, but I know I, I never envisioned, you know, what I've been able to do because of recovery for the last 17 and a half years. You know, I, I, I had no intention on speaking. It just a door opened and I walked through it, and I've been on the other side of it ever since. So the mission of just one has always been kind of my mantra. And thankfully, and God willing, we've been able to impact so many more, so
[02:13]
B
many over these 17 years. And I understand Heron Projects just celebrated 15 years. And you ran the Boston Marathon to celebrate that, is that right?
[02:21]
C
I did. I did. It's My wife and I, you know, we ran it together. You know, this is, this is not just my illness. You know, it's ours. It's not just my recovery. It's our recovery. You know, we, we've walked through this journey together, shoulder to shoulder. You know, she's experienced her own trauma and has, you know, her story as well. And to run the Boston Marathon knowing that, you know, every step mattered and we were going to be able to impact so many because of it, it was really special.
[03:00]
B
No, that's so key and so, so amazing that you've been able to do it. Together throughout the years. I happen to read that your first marathon in 2014 was, was even more eventful. Is that right? And you're not a natural marathon runner, but you do it for a good cause.
[03:16]
C
I do. It's all about the mission, right? It's all about the cause. I'm not competing. I'm not, I'm not out there with, with any goals in mind that's around the marathon. It really is just, just for the cause. And you know, it takes a little bit of the pressure off, but it's an incredible accomplishment. It's an incredible feat. I mean, you know, 26 miles is quite a distance, but it's the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles you have to go through by yourself or with your partner in order to accomplish that, to cross the line.
[03:57]
B
Well, if anyone could do it, I imagine it's you. You were a gifted athlete from day one. I've seen those videos of you playing ball as a high schooler. Did sports and athletics always come naturally for you?
[04:12]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, genetics, I was born into it in a sense. I was probably forced fed basketball because of my, my family, from my lineage. Does it mean I necessarily enjoyed it? But I was, I was good enough at it for sure. And you know, I've been somewhat a competitor most of my life. So to, to, to do that marathon, to, to. To accomplish that goal, you know, it brought back that little fire inside of me somewhat and take me back to
[04:49]
B
growing up a little bit. Basketball was a huge part of it, as you were saying, but so is drinking and substances a little. Walk me through some of the origin story to start.
[04:58]
C
Yeah, you know, I mean, I think I started, you know, sadly like most kids start, right. Like I, I started in the woods, you know, in my neighborhood. And I started with somebody else, some adults, alcohol, you know, whether it was my father's or my friend's parents. And you know, that's why my, with the documentary, I think that, you know, we put so much emphasis on what's going to happen to you because of drugs and alcohol in the end. And we forget the beginning and we forget day one. You know, my day one was like most. And you know, I, I started socially drinking, you know, in high school. But as an athlete who was extremely competitive and traveling the country, I wasn't around a lot. You know, a gentleman wrote a book about me when I was 16 years old and he spent a significant amount of time, almost a year and a half. And you know, he always would say to me Like, I. I never saw it coming. You know, I didn't see your behavior didn't match up with what happened later on in life. But, you know, I opened that door. You know, I took that step. I started that process, and, you know, it all. You know, when I look back on it and I share this when I speak, you know, I. My dad. My dad struggles with alcoholism, and, you know, as a little boy, I knew I didn't know what alcoholism was, but I knew it was a beer that caused the problem. And, you know, when people talk about my story, they want to, you know, oftentimes reference back to, like, my OxyContin days in the Boston Celtics. And for me, as a father, as an adult who's 50 years old, like, to me, the day one was the saddest for me, you know, because although I wasn't educated around alcoholism, I knew that that beard was not healthy in my home, and it impacted not only myself, my brother, but my mom and our family.
[07:01]
B
Right. No, I think that's one of the powerful things about your. The way when you tell your story and about the first day, and it is often overlooked. I mean, some of the other behaviors are sometimes louder, but it all comes from that initial place, both the first drink, but also for some of those feelings. What do you think alcohol did for you back then or substances in those early years?
[07:24]
C
You know, I think it. I used it as an escape. Right. Like, I think my. My parents marriage was struggling during my teenage years. They eventually divorced when I was 19. But I think. I think the instability of family and what was going on in my house, I think it played a big factor. I think you roll in the success I had as a young athlete and the pressure that came with it. Oftentimes felt it was welcoming for me to kind of just be one of. And not, you know, the guy, you know, and I actually kind of adopted that kind of mantra like that, you know, I just want to be like everybody else. And, you know, and I fell victim to that as well.
[08:13]
B
And then how did things progress over time? I mean, your athletics really progressed onto being a college star and then to the NBA. But you carried the addiction with you, is that right?
[08:24]
C
I did. I mean, it was. It was always there, you know, incredibly, you know, was significantly unaddressed. But, you know, to the. To the coaches, to the parents, to the family in my life back then, I mean, it was. It wasn't easy to identify. I think it became easy to identify when, you know, I was 18 years old and I. And I Was introduced to cocaine. You know, at 18 years old, being in the McDonald's All American game, featured in Sports Illustrated, getting ready to start my season at Boston College. And, you know, I opened the wrong door one night and that, and that door, behind that door was cocaine. And you know, that was basically, to me, that was the red flag that went up that, you know, unfortunately as well it was, it was kind of unaddressed. When I was a 18 year old college kid playing high level basketball, it was more about punishing and punitive than it was education and prevention and recovery. Good, good.
[09:31]
B
Is it right? So there really wasn't an opening for you to address it, be open and honest about it, especially because things probably felt pretty high stakes for you.
[09:40]
C
I was dismissed from Boston College and I kind of ran away from the headlines. And I said, you know, let me go to the furthest place I can go to in the middle of nowhere in Fresno. And when I landed there, I had people who wanted to help me get sober and stay sober. You know, I had coaches who brought me to AA meetings for the first time. So I was introduced to that community at around 20 years old. And while I still struggled at Fresno, you know, the reaction from Fresno State University was like, you know, not only are we going to punish you and or suspend you, but we're going to help you. And I went to treatment for the first time. I was 21 years old and I was put on a plane to go to a residential treatment center in Salt Lake City, Utah. So that was my introduction to treatment. And you know, for me today, as a sober, a sober man and kind of what I've dedicated my life to is, is, is kind of changing that stigma of how I felt when I went to treatment. Like, I felt like I was just being shunned. I felt like they were punishing me, like I had to. It was my penance. Like, you just, you just get away from us for a certain amount of time and we'll let you come back. It wasn't, they didn't make the opportunity attractive to me. And I think, you know, that's, that's what I've tried to do over the last, you know, especially at my wellness center. You know, I have 15 young adults here right now and I want them to feel gratitude for this. Like this is a time where we can improve and get better in every facet of your life. So I was, I was fortunate to be introduced to recovery at a young age.
[11:35]
B
Right. And I mean, what you say is so spot on. I mean, if we frame it as punishment, withholding, as opposed to a real opportunity for growth and to get treatment and help, I mean, that's a huge difference in terms of how we. We message it. And I think we've made some gains, but a lot of it is still very punishing today.
[11:53]
C
Yeah, you know, I mean, I was watching Rich roll the other day, and, you know, it's crazy. When I was on his. On his podcast, and it's like, you know, good. It becomes very evident. It's like jails, institution, or death for not all, but for some. And I. That was, for me, I fell in that category. It's gonna die, go to jail, or be institutionalized. And, And. Or you can take one step this way and live to the most fulfilling life you've ever dreamed of. And, you know, it's. It's that powerful that we stay on, on. On this side of the line. And, you know, I think it's incredibly important to frame this process about, you know, self improvement and an opportunity and a. A time in your life to kind of unplug and reset. And, you know, that's what I've done at Heron Wellness. That's kind of the messaging that I've wanted to give here for the last eight years when people come on this campus, and it's a beautiful reset.
[12:58]
B
And then for your story, you made it out of college to the MBA and back to Boston. And while you had some inkling that substance use was an issue, you ended up falling in with the oxy and the pills ultimately. Is that right?
[13:13]
C
Correct. I was introduced to OxyContin. I believe it was right around 1999, 2000. You know, the only thing I knew, I was probably six months into OxyContin when I saw that the term hillbilly heroin, it became this national news story that, you know, the state of West Virginia and Kentucky are in a epidemic because of a pill called OxyContin. And unfortunately, I was probably already six months into it, and, you know, it was something that I didn't plan for. I had really no idea. I had taken painkillers in the past, Vicodins and percocets. But at 20 years old, playing in the NBA, introduced to OxyContin put me on a path that, you know, almost killed me.
[14:10]
B
And what ultimately led you to make that final step into sobriety and stop. Stop using that and everything else?
[14:17]
C
Yeah, you know, I mean, I probably battled with OxyContin for, like, five to eight years. And, you know, I did almost the unnatural transition, natural transition. However you want to frame it of, of falling into heroin, you know, and I became an IV heroin user. I was, I was shooting heroin throughout my professional basketball career, but I started to overdose. You know, it became very evident, you know, the first time it became very public for me. I had just got done playing with the Celtics, and, and I was found in my car, overdosed. And that became a huge story in this area. And, you know, that arrest, that, that, that moment, you know, made everybody who loved me aware that, you know, the struggle that I was going through was much more severe than, than they thought. So, you know, I, I struggled with oxycontin, I struggled with heroin, and, and I kind of ended with vodka. You know, I, I, There was nothing left for me. I, I couldn't afford, you know, my, the money I had spent on, on opiates was incredible, and I, I just, I couldn't afford a habit like that, and I transitioned to vodka. So for the last couple of years, in my early 30s, I was primarily a vodka drinker, you know, with two pints, two and a half pints a day. And, and I was dying and I, Alcohol for me was not, I wasn't, I wasn't attractive. I wasn't fun to be around. I became, I became a monster with alcohol. And thankfully, you know, I was, I had an opportunity to get some heroin, and I had a lot of vodka in my system, and my system shut down and I overdosed and I was once again arrested, brought to the hospital, and, you know, the rest is kind of history for me. You know, that's, that was my entry point to getting sober 18, 18 years ago.
[16:33]
B
And when you look back on those years in your 20s, 30s, and its impact on your basketball career and your relationships in life, what, what is it, what comes to mind as you, as you think about all that?
[16:46]
C
You know, I, I think the reality is, you know, I'm still navigating my way through those years. You know, I, I, they, for me, they don't go away. You know, I, I impacted the people closest to me and the people who love me as, you know, my children who are now adults. So we've, we've, we've revisited, you know, we've gone back, we've, we've done what was necessary to kind of find our way through that history together. But, you know, forgiveness is tricky. You know, I'm, I'm much better at forgiving than I, than I, than I am to be forgiven. And, you know, I've, I've done, you know, although I've been sober for coming up on 18 years. I've. I've done an incredible amount of work the last three years. I was introduced to IFS and emdr and, you know, I did. I'm still currently doing that every Friday from 10:30 to 12 for three years. And it's just given me so much peace in my life. It's given me a lot of peace. It's given me a lot of space. It's allowed me to. To communicate and, and navigate that way through. Through the process with my children and my wife, and it's. It's been incredible freedom.
[18:11]
B
And for those that aren't familiar with those treatments, maybe you can discuss just briefly what they are and then how they were helpful with, with, I guess, trauma of all of it.
[18:19]
C
Yeah, you know, ifs is internal family systems. You know, it's. There's parts of me that were. That needed to be seen, heard, revealed, healed. You know, they, they were reactive and, and they. I needed to. You know, my therapist says it's almost like a time machine. I had to go back and, and work through some of these traumatic moments of my life and kind of change the narrative around them and change the story. You know, I became part of that moment as an adult, and I knew what to do. I knew what I needed. So that trauma work for me was, was. It was so incredibly important. You know, I was 15 years sober, and I was losing my grip. I was losing my grip on recovery. Fifteen years sober was probably the toughest year I ever had in recovery. It was tougher than year one. And, you know, I. Thankfully I. I was introduced to this therapist, and, you know, he's just, he's just giving me so much, right? Like, you know, just, just this simple gesture of to just ask. You know, just ask. You know, don't, don't assume, don't anticipate. Just ask. And that's been incredibly helpful with my, with my children and, you know, just like, for me to retreat, regroup, and return, you know, like, I've never had that. I'm always, I'm always a go guy, you know, and so, so any, any instability, any confrontation, you know, I'm wired to run full speed at it and address it. You know, what this has done is giving me the, the, the time to recognize it, walk away from it, process it, and come back to do it and deal with it as an adult, you know. So, you know, it's just those little tools that I've developed over the years in this type of therapy that has been incredibly Helpful?
[20:38]
B
No, I think that that's a powerful moment and a powerful reminder that just because one enters recovery doesn't mean everything goes away. And there are moments along recovery when we have to dive into other stuff in more depth in order to get a better sense from ourselves. Because those initial years, you manage recovery mainly with, with 12 step work, or what was it that sustained those early years?
[21:00]
C
A lot of grit, a lot of 12 step work. And, and trust me, like, that is, that is my work, right? Like, I, that is who I am. You know, I'm a 12 step guy. I don't think it's for everybody, but it was for me. And it, and it gave me so much in my life. You know, I love the community, I love claiming my seat, I love serving, helping others. Like that's, that's kind of who I am. But it didn't make me perfect. Right? It didn't make me perfect. And, and there was still a lot of work that needed to be done. And, you know, I'm, I'm just so thankful that I was able to get out in front of it before it came, before it got me. And I, you know, you know, there's a thing in, in, in ifs called the eight Cs and you know, with the eight Cs and, and I won't go over them, but like, you know, courage, community, curiosity. You know, when I lose my curiosity in life, I, I'm not in a good space. And you know, I, I was introduced to that process through this, and it's been incredibly helpful for me going forward.
[22:14]
B
And what you said about this sort of pressure to be perfect resonated with me because I imagine as a basketball player there's that incredible pressure to be that way. And then as a public someone who's so outspoken about the recovery, who's had their narrative covered by all sorts of media outlets and books and films, there's probably a similar pressure to almost just stick to that narrative and be perfect in that way that's been told already.
[22:38]
C
Yeah, you know, I mean, I think that was kind of a struggle for me. Right. I'm like, here I am, I, I have families, you know, who believe in my message, who believe in my model, who believe in how I do things in recovery. And I, I could not hide that from anyone. You know, I had to say, like, you know, although I'm sober, although I'm in recovery, although I talk recovery work, work in recovery, live recovery, you know, recovery can be bumpy. You know, it can get a little bumpy. It can get a little turbulent. And again, you know, for me, I don't know where I would be if I didn't walk into that office that day, but I know where I am now because of how I walked in that office, and it's. It's just incredible.
[23:28]
B
Wow. And tell me a little bit more about your wife and your family in your recovery. You mentioned it was important to run that marathon with her, and I think she was a part of all the bumps along the way. Is that right?
[23:41]
C
Oh, gosh, yeah. She's been on the bumps. We've known each other since we were 12, so we've known each other for 38 years. She knew me before, she knew me during, and she knows me after.
[23:55]
B
So.
[23:56]
C
Yeah. Hey, you know, this impacts whoever's close to it. Right. Like, it made my wife incredible. I'm not going to tell her story, but, you know, it made her incredibly sick. You know, I mean, she's raising three children, and she has me running on the streets, overdosing, completely disrupting her world, my children's world. And the fact that she gave me the time to go through this process, you know, I mean, I. I could never. I could never, never pay her back. But that's why I referenced the Boston Marathon, because, you know, oftentimes I'm the one out in front. And the reality is, is she's shoulder to shoulder with me, and she has been since day one.
[24:44]
B
Yes. Your honesty and the way you tell your story, it continues to evolve, and it continues to really help people. Talk a little bit about the different things you're doing to help people. I mean, so many different, great initiatives from Heron Talks the First Day, the project, your facility there. So walk me through the menu and I think highlight the First Day, because that's really one of the best prevention films that I've ever seen and one I often am a part of in terms of screenings for it.
[25:12]
C
Yeah, I mean, the First Day is my. Is my. Is the crown jewel, in my opinion, you know, of the work that I've been able to put together over the last, you know, 15 years or so. You know, I felt as if, you know, I. And I say this with humility. You know, I have this incredible, volatile, bumpy story that reached great heights and incredible depths. And, you know, I traveled the country for eight years telling that story, and I just felt as if I was kind of playing into the stigma to the narrative of putting so much emphasis into shocking, scaring children about addiction. And, you know, I'm so incredibly thankful that you know, I kind of had that moment where I was like, I need to pivot this, I have their audience, I need to speak more about them and their language and where they're at in their life and where I was at at their age. So, you know, the first day is everything for me. It's kind of, it's the foundation of what I do today.
[26:33]
B
And I think one of the core messages as opposed to scaring people about drugs that you're conveying to kids is almost that it's just okay to be them. Is that. Right. That, that there's a lot of difficult feelings and be aware of what you might do to medicate them and recognize your worth and value and, and, and get the help.
[26:52]
C
Yeah. And honestly, even a little before that, just the preventative, like, you don't have to, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to follow that path like you will find your way through if you stay there. I, I, you know, I have, I have children that navigated their way through those years without alcohol and drugs. And you know, trust me, there were many nights I was like, oh, you know, they're not having the fun I envision them having that 16, 17 years old. But you know, they had their own community of friends that chose, you know, abstinence at that time. But yeah, you know, I think if, you know, I'm constantly talking to parents and you know, I often ask them like, okay, we've identified where, when he started, where he gets it, how he gets it, what he's doing, or she. Have you asked them why? And most parents don't ask what. Most parents kind of want to shut the faucet off. Like, I'm going to isolate you from that group. I'm going to keep you here in front of me, I'm going to, I'm going to keep track or track your phone and I'm going to know where you are at all times. But why?
[28:13]
B
Right. And I think sometimes people assume the why is because you're like a bad person or a troublemaker, but the real why points to something deeper.
[28:22]
C
Absolutely. And that's that, that's been the joy that I've, I've received over the last, you know, 10 years doing the first day is that, you know, kids identify their why and kids share their why. And you know, I, I didn't share my why until I was probably 33, 34 years old. And I have 16 year old, 15 year old students letting me into their world and telling me their why. And I Think once we, if we can get them there in that self reflection moment, go back to class and, and think about, you know, their family and the people that love them and, and, and you know, the example they're setting for the younger kids in their family, if they're a big brother or a big sister, you know, I think those are things that, you know, put them in a space to think about who they're becoming and the things they're doing. So, you know, Heron project we started 15 years ago. It's, it's, it's done, you know, much more than I ever envisioned. I, I kind of started with a mission of just helping one and it's become thousands and thousands of people. You know, Heron Wellness is, is my dream come true in a sense. I created this wellness campus, this wellness center that is extremely holistic and with, with different modalities of, of, of recovery here. But just like the, just the self improvement, right? Like I needed a win and, and you know, at 32 years old, I needed to get better. Not just at not doing drugs and alcohol. I needed to improve in every facet of my life. And you know, when, when people come in, come to come to this campus, you know, we focus on every facet. You know, whether it's nutrition, whether it's physical, you know, whether it's working with the personal trainer, yoga, meditation, breath work, acupuncture, massage therapy, you know, we do it all and, and it just, you know, it gives them some wins and, and that's what I love about this place.
[30:42]
B
And now for all these years sober and for doing the therapy, what's, what's life like for you these days?
[30:47]
C
Life is good. Life is good. I'm not, you know, I, I, I have my moments. You know, I, I, I definitely have my moments. You know, I'm still, I'm still in therapy. You know, it's not, life isn't perfect, it's not a straight line. But I'm trying, you know, I'm putting the effort in. You know, I think that question, and I'm very proud of that, I think that question, if asked to my children would say, you know, my dad is so much better than he used to be. And, and that's, that's kind of my aim, you know, if, if my kids answer that question, you know. Yeah, that's all I can ask for.
[31:31]
B
And your story is notable for your real ability to change. You know, a lot of people go through life and find change very hard, but you've had to do it on the biggest stage multiple times. And even in recovery, when you think it's all set to still sort of be honest and to make those adjustments, I think it's a great example for everybody.
[31:50]
C
I hope so. You know, I think one of my. And again, it's. I don't want to sound like I think recovery is my. Is my superpower. Right. Like, I think it.
[32:01]
B
It's.
[32:02]
C
Is the greatest gift that I've been given personally. But I was also blessed because of, you know, the way I walked into recovery and the people who I surrounded myself with that, like, vulnerability is a superpower, right? Like, just let it go, you know, And I've been okay with letting it go. And, you know, oftentimes people say to me, like, you know, you're almost too forthcoming and honest. And, you know, for me, I have to be. It's worked for me.
[32:37]
B
No, I think it's your real strength as well. Well, Chris, you're fantastic. I appreciate you taking the time to share your story and everything that you're doing with us today.
[32:45]
C
Oh, of course.
[32:46]
A
Thanks for listening to the Thriving with Addiction podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, please follow and subscribe. Wherever you listen to your podcasts and share it with someone who might benefit, you can also connect with me on Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube or visit thrivingwithaddiction.com to learn more. Stay tuned for next week's episode. And remember, thriving is possible.