Thriving with Addiction with Dr. Jonathan Avery

Episode: Healing the Modern Brain with Dr. Drew Ramsey
Date: April 7, 2026
Guest: Dr. Drew Ramsey, Psychiatrist, Author, Brain Food Clinic Founder

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Jonathan Avery welcomes Dr. Drew Ramsey, one of the leading voices in nutritional psychiatry, to explore how diet, lifestyle, and modern life impact mental health—especially for people in recovery from addiction. Dr. Ramsey shares both his personal journey and clinical wisdom, outlining the "Nine Tenets" from his latest book, Healing the Modern Brain, and delves into the science behind brain health, neuroplasticity, and the healing potential of simple habits.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Dr. Drew Ramsey’s Journey (03:07–08:56)

• Transition from NYC to Wyoming:
  Dr. Ramsey discusses leaving New York City for Jackson, Wyoming, inspired by a desire for intentional community, a richer connection to nature, and healthier living for his family.
• Personal Alcohol Journey:
  Ramsey reveals giving up drinking 4.5 years ago for health, family modeling, and a recognition of genetic risk:

  “You know, my wife's very wise... being around active folks... engaged in their creativity, and most importantly engaged in intentional community building.” (01:53, Dr. Ramsey) “I stopped drinking four, four and a half years ago now... A big part of my New York living was going from being kind of a rural farm kid...to hitting that New York drinking scene... And then learn more about...the genes of alcoholism that we had.” (03:07, Dr. Ramsey)

• Origins in Nutritional Psychiatry:
  Ramsey traces his path from rural Indiana, through Columbia University, to pioneering nutritional psychiatry—with a spark of interest ignited by early research linking seafood consumption to lower rates of mood disorders and the metabolic effects of psychiatric medications.

  “What I realized is...I wasn't asking patients about food...People are getting better for their psychiatric illness. They're getting worse in terms of their metabolic health.” (06:58, Dr. Ramsey)

2. The Modern Brain’s Challenges (10:35–14:52)

• Modern Stressors:
  Overstimulation, processed food, substance use, and especially digital overload threaten brain health.

  “We don't sleep, we're on the screen...complex diets, a lot of confusion...the disconnection...digitally connected is leading to us being socially disconnected.” (12:44, Dr. Ramsey)

• Sleep & Brain Cleansing:
  Emphasizes the “glymphatic system” and the importance of sleep in clearing out brain waste.

  “It's not hey, I want you to get eight hours, it's hey, your brain needs to drain out...You gotta get it out. All those like amyloid plaques and tau tangles...” (12:12, Dr. Ramsey)

• Social Disconnection:
  Digital proximity fails to provide the intimacy or emotional richness required for true mental fitness.

3. Substance Use, Processed Foods, and Inflammation (14:52–25:26)

Alcohol & Brain Health

• Scientific Evidence: Consumption quickly raises inflammatory markers and impairs antioxidant defenses, even with moderate drinking.

  “When we drink alcohol...by four hours [after drinking], [inflammatory marker] CRP...is up 80% and it stays high...as soon as you start drinking, [antioxidant defenses] start dropping.” (15:14, Dr. Ramsey)

• Personal Reflections & Harm Reduction: Ramsey identifies the gradual realization that even “acceptable” social drinking eroded his cognitive sharpness and mood, with full clarity coming after 90 days alcohol-free.

  “It was really at 90 days when I noticed I stopped worrying that I was getting subtly demented. I just felt sharp again. I felt creative again.” (18:43, Dr. Ramsey)

Ultra-Processed Foods & Food Addiction

• Depression Risk:
  Evidence from large studies links high ultra-processed food intake with a 20–50% increased risk of depression.

  “The nurses health study...the risk of depression is 50% greater [in the top quintile of processed food eaters].” (20:39, Dr. Ramsey)

• Youth & Diet:
  College students on Mediterranean diets (rich in real, whole foods) experienced a 35–50% decrease in new depression.
• Practical Nutritional Psychiatry:
  Encourages curiosity about cravings and suggests satisfying sweet preferences with nutrient-dense, naturally sweet foods.

  “Nutritional psychiatry is really trying to...figure out John's favorite sweets...leaning towards this concept called nutrient density...” (24:54, Dr. Ramsey)

4. Memorable Quotes: Food Rhyme, Dietary Tips & Humor

• Dr. Ramsey’s “What to Eat” Rhyme:

  “Seafood, greens, nuts and beans. Rainbow celebrations, don’t forget the fermentations.” (25:37, Dr. Ramsey)

• On Writing About Kale:

  “If you're in academia. I just. Little tip for you, don't write a sex book about a vegetable...you get teased and it's not going to do great things for you if you're just not taking seriously. After that, everyone laughed.” (26:09, Dr. Ramsey)

• On Clams and Nutritional Density:

  “Clams, number one source of B12: 1,401% of vitamin B12, and 3 ounces of clams. Holy pasta, Van Gole. That's all I have to say.” (27:02, Dr. Ramsey)

5. The Nine Tenets of Healing the Modern Brain (27:53–34:21)

Dr. Ramsey briefly outlines the core habits supporting brain and recovery health.

• 1. Self-Awareness:
  Cultivate honest, kind self-reflection and emotional attunement.

  “Self awareness is really asking you to honor this just incredible wisdom you have if you're anxious...there's also a way that anxiety is a signal to us...” (28:11, Dr. Ramsey)

• 2. Nutrition:
  See previous section and dietary tips.
• 3. Movement/Exercise:
  Harnesses neurochemical benefits of physical activity.

  “There is no drug like exercise...it feels great and it takes just a little bit longer than getting high.” (30:55, Dr. Ramsey)

• 4. Sleep:
  Make the bedroom a “sleep sanctuary,” promote sleep hygiene, rest and restoration.

  “Stop being a weenie about sleep hygiene...Your bedroom's mess... Make that room like the perfect, like, humidified HEPA filtered air.” (31:40, Dr. Ramsey)

• 5. Connection:
  Invest in relationships and build true social webs.
• 6. Engagement:
  Fight passive digital consumption by active engagement with people and one’s own mind.
• 7. Grounding/Nature Exposure:
  Regular contact with nature, or “grounding,” for mood and neurodiversity benefits.

  “You know, I'm just very in awe and happy out in the wilderness. Walking and walking out in nature has been a great, of great healing value to mental health.” (33:36, Dr. Ramsey)

• 8 & 9. (Implied/additional):
  While not all tenets are spelled out, Ramsay’s book covers other pillars such as purpose, creativity, and stress regulation.

6. The Bigger Picture: Psychiatry Beyond Medications (34:58–36:30)

Ramsey and Avery emphasize a holistic model of psychiatric and addiction care, integrating medications when needed but refusing to lose sight of all the nonpharmacological levers for healing—a view that is gaining traction yet still rare.

“It's what psychiatry needs to be really bold and brave about...When you get a psychiatrist, you get someone like me and John in your corner and we are tenacious as hell. And we're more informed and educated about brain networks and neuroscience...If you need Prozac, like, no problem...But you need smart interpretations about your dynamics, like, oh, yeah, we got all that too.” (35:23, Dr. Ramsey)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Your brain needs to drain out...It's about a teaspoon of waste...all those amyloid plaques and tau tangles...”
  — Dr. Ramsey, (12:12)
• “When I would wake up in the morning...[and] I didn't want. I didn't drink wine. I didn't drink cocktails...I was only interested in drinking IPAs...it just. I don't know. I noticed myself earlier in the day on a weekend...”
  — Dr. Ramsey, (16:25)
• “The more I can be curious about it and kind of help you paint a more colorful picture for yourself around you as an eater, then I'm helping fuel your brain, but I'm also helping you kind of manifest more in your personhood.”
  — Dr. Ramsey, (23:09)
• “Movement...there is no drug like exercise. It feels great, and it takes just a little bit longer than getting high.”
  — Dr. Ramsey, (30:55)
• “Stop being a weenie about sleep hygiene…Make that room like the perfect, humidified HEPA filtered air.”
  — Dr. Ramsey, (31:40)
• “When you get a psychiatrist, you get someone like me and John in your corner and we are tenacious as hell.”
  — Dr. Ramsey, (35:23)

Recommended Resources & Closing

• Eat to Beat Depression and Anxiety (Ramsey)
• Healing the Modern Brain: Nine Tenets to Build Mental Fitness and Revitalize Your Mind (Ramsey)
• Techniques for sleep hygiene, nutritional psychiatry, and leveraging hobbies/social engagement for recovery.

Takeaways

Dr. Ramsey and Dr. Avery situate recovery—whether from addiction or any mental health challenge—not merely as abstinence or symptom management, but as a full, resilient, engaged life fueled by deliberate choices in nutrition, movement, relationships, and self-awareness. Their dialogue exemplifies a new, scientifically grounded, and deeply humanistic roadmap to healing in the modern world.