Birthright Citizenship

Summary

Throughline: Birthright Citizenship
Episode Release Date: February 6, 2025
Hosts: Rund Abdelfatah and Ramtin Arablouei
NPR

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Introduction: The Legacy of Wong Kim Ark

In the episode titled "Birthright Citizenship," Throughline delves deep into one of the most pivotal Supreme Court cases in American history: United States v. Wong Kim Ark. Hosted by Rund Abdelfatah and Ramtin Arablouei, the episode weaves a rich tapestry of historical events, personal narratives, and legal battles that have shaped the concept of American citizenship.

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Chinatown San Francisco: The Starting Point
Understanding the Cultural and Historical Backdrop

The episode opens with Julie Kane and Sandra Wong exploring Chinatown in San Francisco, a neighborhood with over 150 years of Chinese immigrant history. Julie Hsu, a fourth-generation San Franciscan attorney, introduces the central figure of the episode—Wong Kim Ark—whose case would challenge the very definition of American citizenship.

"This place has a lot of stories to tell."
— Ramtin Arablouei [02:04]

Historical Context: Anti-Chinese Sentiment and the Exclusion Acts

The narrative navigates through the surge of anti-Chinese sentiment in the late 19th century, culminating in violent pogroms and the enactment of the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. These laws not only barred Chinese laborers from entering the United States but also stripped Chinese immigrants of their rights, forcing them into isolated communities like Chinatown.

"This country was coming out of the Civil War, the end of slavery. And the white workers were told, the Chinese are the new slaves and they will undermine your work because they will take jobs at lower pay."
— Julie Hsu [21:37]

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Wong Kim Ark's Ordeal: From Birthright to Detention
The Journey of a Chinese American

Wong Kim Ark, born in San Francisco to Chinese immigrant parents, found himself at the heart of a legal storm when he returned to the United States after a visit to China. Despite possessing documentation proving his birthright citizenship, he was detained and barred entry under the Chinese Exclusion Act.

"He fought for his birthright citizenship, the idea that, with some small exceptions, if you're born in the United States, then you're automatically a citizen."
— Ramtin Arablouei [08:01]

The episode poignantly captures the emotional turmoil faced by Ark and his family, especially Sandra Wong, his great-granddaughter, who recounts discovering his story through her father's belongings.

"I was like, why? You know, why now do I have to find out? I would have asked all these questions, and I didn't have that opportunity."
— Julie Kane [05:26]

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The Legal Battle: United States v. Wong Kim Ark
Fighting for Citizenship in the Supreme Court

With the support of the Chinese Six Companies, Ark's legal team, comprising esteemed lawyers Maxwell Evarts and J. Hubley Ashton, took his case to the Supreme Court. The central legal question revolved around the interpretation of the 14th Amendment's Citizenship Clause, specifically the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof."

"The 14th Amendment was added to the Constitution after the Civil War to achieve, quote, equal protection of the laws."
— Rund Abdelfatah [33:10]

Government's Argument:
Solicitor General Holmes Conrad contended that Ark, despite being born in the U.S., was not "subject to its jurisdiction" due to his Chinese heritage, effectively arguing for a racial exception to birthright citizenship.

"We are going to fight back."
— Sandra Wong [31:50]

Legal Strategy and Court Proceedings:
Ark's attorneys argued that birthright citizenship was a long-standing principle rooted in common law, emphasizing that it was intended to be inclusive and not restricted by race or parentage.

"If you undercut it for the descendants of Chinese, you're basically undercutting the foundations of quite a few American citizens."
— Sandra Wong [47:31]

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Supreme Court Decision: Affirming Birthright Citizenship
Historic Ruling and Its Implications

After an intense deliberation period, the Supreme Court ruled 6-2 in favor of Wong Kim Ark on March 28, 1898, affirming his status as a U.S. citizen by birthright.

"All persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States."
— Justice Gray [51:31]

The Court underscored that denying Ark's citizenship would set a precedent that undermined the rights of millions of other American citizens born to immigrant parents.

"The Court ruled that citizenship is determined by whether or not someone is born on US soil, not by blood or race."
— Ramtin Arablouei [53:42]

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Aftermath: Continued Struggles and Legacy
The Ongoing Fight for Citizenship Rights

Despite winning the case, Ark's victory was bittersweet. The government continued to challenge the principles established, leading to further legal and personal battles for Ark and his family. His eventual arrest in El Paso, Texas, in 1901 highlighted the persistent racial profiling and systemic challenges faced by Chinese Americans.

"I am the guy who won the Supreme Court case establishing birthright citizenship. That's who I am. I am a citizen who gets to stay."
— Julie Hsu [55:33]

Today, Wong Kim Ark's legacy lives on, enshrined in a mural in San Francisco's Chinatown and in the unwavering protection of birthright citizenship in U.S. law.

"He helped make real the aspirational language of our nation's founding document."
— Ramtin Arablouei [58:04]

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Modern Implications: Birthright Citizenship in Contemporary America
Relevance and Challenges Today

The episode draws parallels between Ark's time and contemporary debates surrounding birthright citizenship, highlighting how the fundamental question of "Who is an American?" remains contested. Recent political actions, such as executive orders aimed at limiting birthright citizenship, echo historical attempts to redefine citizenship boundaries.

"The question of who is an American has always been up for debate."
— Ramtin Arablouei [08:01]

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Conclusion: A Continuing Struggle for Inclusion
Enduring Impact and Future Considerations

Wong Kim Ark's case remains a cornerstone in American legal history, ensuring that birthright citizenship remains a protected right. His story underscores the enduring struggle for equality and the importance of safeguarding constitutional protections against exclusionary practices.

"For the millions of others whose rights are secured by the soil and not by their skin color or ethnicity."
— Ramtin Arablouei [58:04]

Through its meticulous storytelling and insightful analysis, Throughline not only recounts a significant legal battle but also invites listeners to reflect on the broader themes of identity, belonging, and justice in the American narrative.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "All persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States."
  — Julie Hsu [03:12]

• "He fought for his birthright citizenship, the idea that, with some small exceptions, if you're born in the United States, then you're automatically a citizen."
  — Ramtin Arablouei [08:01]

• "If you undercut it for the descendants of Chinese, you're basically undercutting the foundations of quite a few American citizens."
  — Sandra Wong [47:31]

• "The question of who is an American has always been up for debate."
  — Ramtin Arablouei [08:01]

---

Key Takeaways:

1. Historical Significance: The United States v. Wong Kim Ark case fundamentally affirmed birthright citizenship, shaping American immigration and citizenship laws.

2. Racial Dynamics: The episode highlights the persistent racial tensions and systemic barriers faced by Chinese immigrants in the late 19th century.

3. Legal Precedent: Wong Kim Ark's victory established a critical legal precedent that continues to influence debates on citizenship and immigration today.

4. Personal Resilience: The personal stories of Wong Kim Ark and his descendants underscore the human impact of legal battles and the ongoing struggle for equality.

5. Enduring Relevance: The themes explored in the episode remain pertinent, reflecting the evolving challenges surrounding identity, inclusion, and the definition of what it means to be American.

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Subscribe to Throughline+ for bonus content and sponsor-free listening at plus.npr.org/throughline.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcement]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Sony Pictures Classics. I'm still here from filmmaker Walter Salas is the true story of one family's resilience when a dictatorship attempts to tear them apart. Led by a Golden Globe winning performance by Fernanda Torres, now playing select cities.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

A note to our listeners. This episode contains depictions of racist violence. Now onto the show.

[Julie Hsu]

All persons born or naturalized in the.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

United States and subject to the jurisdiction.

[Julie Hsu]

Thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Nor shall any state deprive any person.

[Julie Hsu]

Of life, liberty or property without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[Sandra Wong]

Just walking down Grant street, right through.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

The Chinatown gate, this is Throughline editor Julie Kane. Walking in Chinatown, San Francisco, on a cool Sunday afternoon. She's in one of the oldest Chinatowns in the world, a place where Chinese immigrants have been moving to for over 150 years. It takes up about 24 city blocks, winding up and down steep San Francisco hills.

[Sandra Wong]

So I am walking up Sacramento Street.

[Narrator]

It is a beautiful day.

[Sandra Wong]

I'm walking up a hill.

[Narrator]

Which you.

[Sandra Wong]

Probably hear in my my breathing.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

It's like a city within a city. And you can feel its history in the sights, sounds, smells and flavors in every alley on every corner.

[Sandra Wong]

Hello.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

This place has a lot of stories to tell.

[Julie Hsu]

Sandra.

[Sandra Wong]

Oh, Sandra, hi.

[Julie Hsu]

I'm Julie.

[Julie Kane]

Julie, hi.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Nice to meet you.

[Julie Kane]

I know I'm like getting names and it's okay. I'm Sandra Wong.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Sandra Wong, our editor. Julie, one of the many Julies you'll hear in this episode is there to meet Sandra and a local historian of sorts named Julie Hsu.

[Julie Hsu]

I'm Julie Diane sue, and I'm a fourth generation San Francisco.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Julie Hsu is an attorney who grew up in San Francisco. She met Sandra Wong years ago. They were brought together by the story of one of Chinatown's most legendary residents, Wong Kim Ark.

[Julie Hsu]

And I became interested or knew about the Wong Kim Ark case because my friend who was working in Washington, D.C. at the time for Janet Reno, asked me to put on the celebration of the 100th anniversary of the U.S. supreme Court landmark case, United States vs. Wong Kim Ark.

[Julie Kane]

Well, we're here in front of where he was born.

[Julie Hsu]

That's the recognized birthplace, the exact birthplace.

[Julie Kane]

It's different now.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

751 Sacramento Street. Back then in the late 1800s, when Won Kim Ark was born, it was a storefront with an apartment above the shop. Today it's a school in the middle of a quiet side street, just downhill from the main tourist drag.

[Julie Hsu]

This is as close as we get to 751 Sacramento Street. It is now the site of the Nam Khiu Chinese School.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

The school is a beautiful red, green and white building. It's designed in the classic Chinese style. Raised pavilions, ornate paneling covering the windows, curved shingles on the roof. This should probably be a site where tourists flock because of its connection to Wong Kim Ark. He was the defendant in a court case that would forever alter U.S. immigration laws.

[Julie Kane]

I first heard about Wong Kim Ark at my father's funeral.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

This is Sandra Wong.

[Julie Kane]

It was a picture board of my father and all these pictures of him when he was young, throughout his life, along with this newspaper article that talked about the Wong Kim Ark case. And I remember reading it and thinking, this sounds like a big deal.

[Julie Hsu]

Wong Kim Ark, born in San Francisco of parents domiciled there, went to China on a visit upon attempting to land. On his return, he was refused the privilege and deprived of his liberty.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

The United States vs Wong Kim arc is one of the most important supreme court cases in U.S. history, a case that would shape the relationship between immigrants and the US Government and further define who gets to call themselves an American.

[Julie Hsu]

The case came before the Supreme Court on appeal from the judgment of the district court and was submitted in May 1896 as a test case under the clause of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Los Angeles Herald, July 24, 1898.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

So what did this have to do with Sandra Wong and her dad? What was his relationship to Wong Kim Ark?

[Julie Kane]

There was a lot of things he didn't talk about. And when I remember finding out about it, I'm like, why? You know, why now do I have to find out? I would have asked all these questions, and I didn't have that opportunity.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

She became obsessed with learning more about the story her father never told her. She went searching through all the records.

[Julie Kane]

She could find, through documents, through the National Archive transcripts. You know, I remember seeing his picture as a little boy and reading about the testimony that he had to go through at his court hearing to enter.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

After all her research, here's the story she pieced together. Wong Kim Ark brought Sancho's father, Wong Yuk Jim, to San Francisco from China in the 1920s. Wong Kim Ark claimed Sanja's father as a son, but it's possible her dad was his grandson. So this would make Wong Kim Ark my father's grandfather.

[Julie Kane]

So that would be my great grandfather. I feel like it's a bit of a loss because, you know, I wasn't able to talk to my dad about it. And I would have loved to have asked him questions and to hear it through him. I would have loved that.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Finding out the truth was bittersweet. And there's a question Sandra still thinks about. Why didn't her dad tell her?

[Julie Kane]

You know, there's secrets. I don't know if people don't want to talk about it because of the pain, you know, various reasons.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Maybe there's shame, pain, shame. Maybe it's because at the center of this story is one troubling fact. Wong Kim Ark, Sandra's great grandfather, was born in the United States. Yet as a young adult, he was prevented from returning to San Francisco, his birthplace, after visiting family in China, because of, quote, his race, language, color and dress.

[Julie Kane]

As I read through the files and him going back and forth and all of a sudden to be told that, you know, you're not, you don't have a right to come here. I mean, can you imagine how you would feel and just being so incensed? And that would definitely, you know, make you fight, I would think.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

And he did fight. With help from the Chinese American community, Wong Kim Ark's case made it to the Supreme Court.

[Julie Kane]

He fought for his right to be here. He fought for what he believed in.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

He fought for his birthright citizenship, the idea that, with some small exceptions, if you're born in the United States, then you're automatically a citizen, a concept that isn't foreign for many of us. I immigrated to the US From Iran as a child, but my son, who was born in Maryland, is the first person in my entire family to be a US Citizen because he was born here. Many of the staff on Throughline are either first, second, or third generation immigrants who have some experience with the complexities of this legal principle. It's easy to think that it's always been this way. But the question of who is an American has always been up for debate. And the answer to that question is always a product of the political, social, and economic realities of when it's being asked. It's an issue that's still contested today.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

On his first day in office, President Donald Trump signed an executive order denying birthright citizenship to children born in the US who do not have at least one parent who is a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident. More than 20 states have sued the Trump administration in response, contending that his action disregards over 125 years of legal precedent. And a federal judge has already blocked President Trump's executive order.

[Julie Hsu]

The federal judge says that is blatantly unconstitutional.

[Narrator]

Trump says that ruling will be challenged.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

When pressed by CBS's Margaret Brennan on the US being founded by immigrants, Vance.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Said, just because we were founded by immigrants doesn't mean that 240 years later that we have to have the dumbest immigration policy in the world.

[Julie Hsu]

That would mean overturning a portion of the Constitution's 14th Amendment.

[Sponsor Announcement]

Birthright citizenship began in 1898 with the Supreme Court case US vs Wong Kim Ark.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

In this episode of Dooline from NPR, we're going to experience Wong Kim Ark's story and and learn how his legal battle changed the debate about who gets to be an American. This is Zachary from Longmont, Colorado, and you are listening to Throughline from npr.

[Narrator]

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[Ramtin Arablouei]

Part 1 In.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

The Land of My Birth In August of 1895, a ship called the SS Coptic approached the coast of Northern California. On that boat was a passenger from San Francisco, a young man returning from visiting his parents homeland of China.

[Julie Hsu]

That steamship journey took about a month, and he would have ridden in steerage near the engine room, which is where most of the Chinese immigrants traveled.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

He was a cook named Wong Kim Ark.

[Julie Hsu]

He would have slept on a bunk, crammed in with everyone else on steerage. And they overcrowded these boats. It would have been certainly a fairly squalid way to travel and very difficult in terms of limited food and water. I think when he saw San Francisco Bay emerge out of what was likely the foggy morning, he must have been thrilled to think, I'm finally back home and I can get off this boat and go back to my home in San Francisco.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

But that's not what would happen.

[Sandra Wong]

When this steamship bearing Wong Kim Arc arrives, the general manager is forbidden to allow him to leave the steamship.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

A U.S. customs agent declared that Wong Kim Ark was not allowed to step foot onto US soil.

[Julie Hsu]

At this point, the Chinese Exclusion act was in effect. And so if you were a Chinese laborer, you were not allowed to enter.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Wong Kim Ark argued with the customs official.

[Julie Hsu]

He said, yes, I'm a laborer, I'm a chef, but I'm a citizen. And here's the proof. He had his certificates. He knew that he was born in the United States, and that meant he was a US Citizen. But he also must have had a little fear about that because he filed a certificate of identity before he left that had a picture of him and said, I was born in the United states, I'm a U.S. citizen. And he had three white witnesses. White people. Because that's all the only kind of witness the US Government would accept who were willing to say he was born in the United States and they'd known him from childhood. So he was prepared.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

But that preparation didn't add up to.

[Julie Hsu]

Much because unbeknownst to Wang, while he was in China, the US Government had decided it wanted to bring a test case challenging birthright citizenship, particularly for the children of Chinese immigrants. So they chose him and they didn't let him get off that boat.

[Sandra Wong]

But they were looking for a test case. And he was a perfect test case. He didn't set out to be anybody's test case. That ever since the birth of said Wong Kim Ark at the time and place hereinbefore stated and stipulated, he has had but one residence, to wit, a residence in said state of California in the United States of America. And that he has never changed or lost said residence or gained or acquired another residence, and there resided claiming to be a citizen of the United States.

[Julie Hsu]

Wong Kim Ark's parents were one of a tiny minority of Chinese immigrants coming into the United states in the 1860s and 70s. We don't know exactly when they arrived, but we know they arrived at least before Wong Kim OK's birth.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

This is Amanda Frost. Amanda is a law professor at the University of Virginia and has practiced immigration law for years.

[Julie Hsu]

And I'm the author of a book entitled you are Not Citizenship Stripping. From Dred Scott to the Dreamers.

[Sandra Wong]

They came from the Pearl River Delta area. Some of these trade ports of Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Canton were opening up to the world.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

And this is Carol Nakanoff.

[Sandra Wong]

I am a Richter professor emerita in the political science department at Swarthmore College.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Carol co wrote a book all about Wong Kim Ark.

[Sandra Wong]

The name of the book is American by Wong Kim Ark and the Battle for Citizenship.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Wong Kim Ark's parents, Wei Li and Wang Siping came to the United States, like many Chinese immigrants, looking for work. Most of these immigrants were men coming to build the railroads or to work as agricultural field hands or to search for gold in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Wong Kim Ark's parents did something different.

[Sandra Wong]

They were engaged in provisioning. They were merchants.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

They opened what was basically a grocery store in San Francisco.

[Sandra Wong]

They were largely servicing a Chinese clientele.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

And at some point in the early 1870s, the records aren't totally clear, they welcomed a new baby into the world.

[Julie Hsu]

Wong Kim Ark, he later told immigration inspectors he was born in the middle room on the second floor at 751 Sacramento street in Chinatown, in the residential apartments over his parents store.

[Sandra Wong]

All the time he was in the United States, he lived within about a quarter mile of the place where he was born.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

This is probably because Chinese people were not welcome in many other parts of San Francisco. And this pattern followed in other cities with growing Chinese populations. In response, Chinatowns popped up in cities all over the US it was a way for Chinese immigrants to band together, form communities and try to keep themselves safe in an increasingly hostile country. But sometimes these enclaves became a target.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

On the evening of October 24, 1871 in Los Angeles, an angry group of white men descended upon a neighborhood where some of the city's very small population of Chinese residents lived.

[Julie Hsu]

And they dragged men from their beds and hung them and shot them and stabbed them and stole from them. And out of this tiny population, 18 men were lynched that night.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Many historians believe it's the biggest mass lynching event in American history.

[Julie Hsu]

So this was a shocking event. I'm sure for Wong Kim Ark and his family. And I assume they must have heard about it because of course they were living in Chinatown in San Francisco, in the same state and not so far away.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

And maybe they thought this can't happen here. San Francisco was much bigger, more cosmopolitan and had a much bigger Chinatown.

[Julie Hsu]

But, but if that's what they thought, they were wrong. Because in 1877 a very similar attack, pogrom, racial pogrom, occurred in San Francisco.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

In Chinatown, in what started as a labor strike, a group of angry men, driven by the idea that Chinese immigrants were taking their jobs by working for less, marched towards Chinatown and started setting buildings on fire.

[Julie Hsu]

They killed four men that night. It must have been terrifying.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Anti Chinese violence had landed on the doorstep of Wong Kim Ark's family. Eventually they packed up their store and moved back to China.

[Julie Hsu]

We don't know exactly why Wong Kim Ark's family left, but we can imagine that that pogrom, that attack on the Chinese population in the few blocks where they lived must have terrified them and been part of the reason they left.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Where did all this anger towards Chinese immigrants come from? Most people in the US probably would have never encountered a Chinese immigrant. Yet in the last half of the 19th century, anti Chinese sentiment was everywhere.

[Julie Hsu]

At first, Chinese immigrants were welcomed. They were helping to build America. They were building the transcontinental railroad. And they were key. They were extraordinarily important and they helped to mine the gold and the precious metals in backbreaking difficult work throughout the West. But then, as so often we see in this nation, there was an economic downturn and they were scapegoated and blamed for the lack of jobs and the poor economy.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

There really wasn't much truth to this idea. Chinese immigrants made up a very tiny percentage of the population of the United states in the 19th century. But this narrative, pushed by politicians and printed in the newspapers, became increasingly accepted.

[Julie Hsu]

This country was coming out of the Civil War, the end of slavery. And the white workers were told, the Chinese are the new slaves and they will undermine your work because they will take jobs at lower pay. They're willing to work in slave like conditions and they use that as an excuse for violence. And their attempt to drive out Chinese immigrants from the United States.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

And this effort didn't just come in the form of violent mob attacks. It was cemented into law. In 1882, Congress passed a bill called the Chinese Exclusion Act. From and after the expiration of 90 days next, after the passage of this act and until the expiration of 10 years next, after the passage of this act, the coming of Chinese laborers to the United States baby and the same is hereby suspended. And this law creates a new legal invention. Before any Chinese passengers are landed from any such vessel, the collector or his deputy shall proceed to examine such passengers, comparing their certificates with the list and with the passengers. And no passenger shall be allowed to land in the United States from such vessel as in violation of law. It creates a racial distinction that says that the Chinese are a different race which should not be allowed to immigrate or naturalize. There are some exemptions built into the law which provide exemptions for like students and diplomats and merchants. This is Jason Oliver Chang. I'm associate professor of history in Asian and Asian American Studies at the University of Connecticut. Jason says that as soon as the law passed, customs officials around the country began looking for Chinese laborers who might be in the US in violation of the law. They would inspect their hands to see if they were calloused and say, are you really an upper class merchant or are you a laborer who's pretending? And so they would have these very demeaning, humiliating kinds of approaches to really enforce the racial rule of the land.

[Julie Hsu]

There was a sense too that the Chinese couldn't assimilate and that Chinese immigrants weren't willing to assimilate.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

So we had these constant kinds of battles for the lived reality of citizenship.

[Julie Hsu]

The Chinese population was forced, forced by laws as well as social conventions to live in isolated ways, to live in Chinatowns, in ethnic enclaves. The children were barred from attending schools. Anti miscegenation laws barred marriage. The federal law barred Chinese immigrants from becoming citizens.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

There was also the Page act, which barred all Chinese women, except for the wives of merchants from entering the United States. There was also the Geary act that required all Chinese immigrants to to constantly walk around with identification papers.

[Julie Hsu]

So there was this sense that the Chinese wouldn't assimilate. But of course it was the laws and policies and practices of the nation that made it so difficult for them to assimilate. But that also made it easy to view them as others, as people who are not like us.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

These were important messages that also aligned with a broader kind of sense that the west was for white people. And for many Chinese people in the US the message was clear. Their job in the United States was over. Their introduction for the railroads was over.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

When Wong Kim Ark's family left the United States after the 1877 Anti Chinese riots in San Francisco, they never came back. But he did so.

[Julie Hsu]

He reported that he went back to China with his parents around 1877, when he was around 8 years old. He came back, he said, at age 11 with an uncle. And he began working as first like a dishwasher and then a cook, first in the mining communities in the Sierra Nevada mountains and then later in Chinatown. It must have been a very rough life for him. He was clearly not being educated at that point, if he ever got much education. And also, it must have been very lonely. He had come from a small village, Aung Singh Village, where he'd been living with a younger brother and his parents. And now he was back in the United States, a country he did know well, having grown up his first eight years in the United States. But he hadn't been for several years, and he was in a strange new community, working. It must have been a lonely and isolating time for him there, too. We also know from a picture where he's wearing sort of a smock and his hair is standing up on end, and you realize, you know, that he probably didn't have a lot of opportunities to shower. He was working probably hot, difficult, hard jobs as a chef in a kitchen. So that gave you a sense, too, of the hardships of his life. He lived in the United States until He was about 20, when he went back to China, because he wanted to find a wife.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

He wanted to get married, something that would have been really challenging in the US because there were so few Chinese women and because Chinese men were legally barred or socially discouraged from marrying outside their race.

[Julie Hsu]

So he really had no choice but to go back to China and get married. And indeed he did. He went back and married a woman named Yixi, who was about 17 years old, and he got married to her, and she moved in with his mother and brother in Aung Seng village in Guangdong province in China.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

But he didn't stay long. After several months, he returned to the United States to work. And he repeated this process again a couple of years later, going back to China to visit his wife and his growing family. But in 1895, on what he must have expected to be another uneventful trip from China to San Francisco, sure, he.

[Julie Hsu]

Thought it would go smoothly, because he landed back in the US Twice before, once in the last five years, and he'd been admitted as a US Citizen.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

He had no idea that he would soon be stuck on a steamship off the coast of California, within sight of his hometown, told by his own government that he was not allowed back into the country of his birth, that all of a sudden he was not a.

[Julie Hsu]

Citizen and they basically claimed that if your parents were not citizens, then even if you were born in the US you were not a citizen of the United States and you could be barred entry or deported from the United States.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Coming up, Wong Kim Ark fights back in court.

[Julie Hsu]

Hi, I'm Jade Wynn. I'm in Stanford, California. And you're listening to Throughline from npr.

[Sponsor Announcement]

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[Julie Hsu]

Part 2 the Test Case.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

In August of 1895, Wong Kim Ark was sitting on a steamship, detained and watched over by guards. He was there because, according to the government, he was not a US Citizen, even though he had documentation showing he was born in San Francisco. It must have been a lonely, bitter feeling to be just a few miles from his hometown, rejected by his own government. But he wasn't alone. Almost immediately, a group of people started working to get him out.

[Julie Hsu]

So I'm guessing they had lots of contacts and networks who were aware of who was coming in and what was happening on those steamships. The group was known colloquially as the Chinese Six Companies.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

The Chinese Six Companies, also known as the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association.

[Julie Hsu]

It was a group of representatives from all the different regions of China who were immigrants to the US Living in the US who had made it in the United States, they had some money, they had some resources, and when the Chinese Exclusion act went into effect, they mobilized and they said, we are going to fight back.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

They frequently hired lawyers, white lawyers, to help Chinese laborers who were subject to deportation under the law.

[Julie Hsu]

And so the Chinese six companies hired a lawyer for Wong Kim Ark, a well known lawyer named Thomas Riordan, and he files a habeas petition on Wong Kim Ark's behalf.

[Sponsor Announcement]

A petition for a writ of habeas corpus was filed on behalf of Wong Kim Ark alleging that said Wong Kim Ark is unlawfully confined and restrained of his liberty on board of the steamship Coptic and prevented from landing into the United States.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

So while Wong Kim Ark sat imprisoned on the steamship, his case headed to a California district court.

[Sponsor Announcement]

The question to be determined is whether a person born within the United States, whose father and mother were both persons of Chinese descent and subjects of the Emperor of China, but at the time of the birth were both domiciled residents of the United States, is a citizen.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

The district court was faced with a monumental decision, one that hinged on a single sentence in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.

[Sandra Wong]

14Th Amendment, Section 1, all persons born.

[Julie Hsu]

Or naturalized in the United States.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

The 14th Amendment was added to the Constitution after the Civil War to achieve, quote, equal protection of the laws. It was intended to make sure newly emancipated black Americans had full equal citizenship and rights. Some of the most impactful Supreme Court cases have hinged on this amendment. There's Plessy v. Ferguson, which upheld the constitutionality of segregation. Brown v. Board of Education, which reversed that. Even Roe v. Wade, which guaranteed the right to abortion. Wong Kim Ark's case focused on a specific part of the 14th amendment, the citizenship clause.

[Julie Hsu]

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

[Sandra Wong]

And of the state wherein they reside.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

That phrase, jurisdiction thereof, it's key because the court had to decide what makes a person a US Citizen? Do all people born on US Soil fall under its jurisdiction, its laws? Or is jurisdiction about where your loyalties lie? Are Chinese people living in the United States really subject to US Laws? Or should they be considered subjects of the Emperor of China? And then what does this legal argument mean for all immigrants across the country? Could this same logic be applied to birthright citizens from Europe?

[Sandra Wong]

Given the attention that this case drew in the local press, it seems that everyone understood that this was going to be the big challenge.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Julie Novkov is the dean of Rockefeller College of Public affairs and Policy at the University at Albany. Suny & Co author of American by Wong Kim Ark and the Battle for Citizenship.

[Sandra Wong]

It was going to have a broader impact than whatever was going on in San Francisco.

[Julie Hsu]

One of the most important Chinese cases for many years being the application of Wong Kim Ark to land as a native son.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Wong Kim Ark was still stuck on a steamer off the coast while his case played out in court. It had been months and he was right in the middle of a bigger battle between the US Government and Chinese Americans.

[Julie Hsu]

The case of Wong Kim Ark promises to become historic. For the question raised is whether a Chinese born on American soil is a citizen of the United States.

[Sandra Wong]

So although there had been previous rulings that had touched on this issue, this one did immediately garner quite a lot of attention even before the ruling came down.

[Julie Hsu]

The decision of several hundred other cases depends upon its outcome.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Outcome.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Finally, in the fall of 1895, the court came to a decision.

[Sandra Wong]

He wins. He wins.

[Sponsor Announcement]

From the law as announced and the facts as stipulated. I am of the opinion that Wong Kim Ark is a citizen of the United States within the meaning of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment. He has not forfeited his right to return to this country. His detention, therefore is illegal. He should be discharged and it is so ordered.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

The experiment of blending the social habits.

[Julie Hsu]

And mutual race idiosyncrasies of the Chinese.

[Sponsor Announcement]

Laboring classes with those of the great.

[Julie Hsu]

Body of the people of the United.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

States has been proved by the experience.

[Sponsor Announcement]

Of 20 years to be in every sense unwise, impolitic and injurious to both nations.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Wong Kim Ark was technically free, but his victory was short lived.

[Julie Hsu]

So the government doesn't give up. But the government immediately says we're appealing this. And in fact, Wong Kim Ark is only allowed off that steamship because he posted a 250 bail. And those records are lost to history. But I'm guessing that the Chinese six companies produced that $250. He was kept for four and a half months and he was only released on January 3, 1896.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

The government appealed the case up to the Supreme Court. They did this because they wanted to enforce and expand the Chinese Exclusion Act. Even the President at the time, Grover Cleveland, was in full support of excluding Chinese immigrants.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

This has induced me to omit no.

[Sponsor Announcement]

Effort to answer the earnest and popular demand for the absolute exclusion of Chinese laborers having objects and purposes unlike our own.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

So the government did it. It appealed the case all the way up to the U.S. supreme Court. And the Solicitor General, the lawyer who represents the government in front of the Supreme Court was right out of central.

[Julie Hsu]

Casting, a man named Holmes Conrad. And Holmes Conrad was tall, patrician. He looked like exactly the kind of person that could be trusted to convey the law clearly and accurately to the justices. His reputation at the time was that he was an excellent lawyer, an excellent representative of the US Government. But if you dig a little deeper into the background of Holmes Conrad, you see some really interesting personal details.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Holmes Conrad came from a prominent slave owning family. He had spent the Civil War as an officer fighting for the Confederacy. And here's some nice irony for you. Because he fought for secession during the Civil War, Conrad actually had his citizenship revoked.

[Julie Hsu]

So for at least a little period of time, a short period of time, Holmes Conrad too was not a citizen of the United States. He wouldn't have been able to vote or hold office. It's interesting to think that at least for a brief period of time, he shared this issue with Wong Kim Ark about whether he would be considered a citizen of the United States.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Meanwhile, Wong Kim Ark, after being detained those horrible four months on ships, was back to his hardscrabble life in San Francisco. He was earning money and sending it to his wife and kids in China. And all the while the government was trying to beat him in court, questioning his citizenship. Yet behind the scenes he's got an all star high powered legal team on his side, paid for by the Chinese six companies.

[Sandra Wong]

They had lawyers on retainer. Some of these lawyers were extremely well positioned. Some of them had had positions in the federal government. Some of them had argued before the Supreme Court. Some of them were working for the railroads. And the businessmen wanted the Chinese that they had brought over to get into the country.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

For this case they hired two accomplished white lawyers.

[Julie Hsu]

One was Maxwell Evarts. In a way, he wore a dual hat. He was hired by the Chinese six companies paid by them to represent Wang. But the railroad, which he also worked for, clearly supported him.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Many big businesses had a keen interest in the Wong Kamart case. They needed labor, cheap labor to expand and be profitable. So they jumped to support Wong Kim Ark's case.

[Julie Hsu]

The second lawyer was a man named J. Hubley Ashton who had worked for President Lincoln. And both men deeply believed in Lincoln and the Reconstruction era's mission of not just ending slavery, but establishing racial equality.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Evarts and Ashton had argued cases before the Supreme Court before, but I would.

[Julie Hsu]

Have to think that they were pessimistic at this point.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

The two of them were coming off a loss in a high profile case involving a Chinese client. Going into this case. They had every reason to doubt the outcome, an outcome that would be potentially devastating for Wong Kim Ark and thousands like him.

[Julie Hsu]

He surely knew that if he lost, he would be forced to leave the United States, the country in which he'd been born and spent most of his life.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Coming up, Wong Kim Ark heads to the Supreme Court.

[Narrator]

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[Julie Hsu]

Hi, this is Vanya calling from Frankfurt.

[Sandra Wong]

Germany, home of the Europa League Championships.

[Narrator]

I'm Pracht Frankfurt, and you're listening to throughline from NPR.

[Julie Hsu]

Part 3 Jurisdiction thereof.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

On March 5, 1897, on a Friday afternoon, the day came the case of United States vs Won Kim Ark began.

[Julie Hsu]

They're in the Capitol building because there was no Supreme Court building at this time. And they were in front of these nine black robed men with Chief Justice Fuller in the middle, who was very short, so he was sitting on an elevated chair.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Chief Justice Melville Weston Fuller was the leader of the nine justice that made up the Supreme Court. And let's just say they had a bit of a reputation.

[Sandra Wong]

The Fuller Court is known among constitutional scholars as one of the most racist iterations of the Supreme Court that has existed across the span of American history. They're responsible for Plessy versus Ferguson, responsible for building the infrastructure that supports the development of Jim Crow in the south in the 20th century. And they actively in some cases support white supremacy and white supremacists. And the court is also not, not always all that wonderful to the Chinese.

[Julie Hsu]

Specifically, many members of the court were on record as being hostile to Chinese immigrants. The argument took place over two different days, Friday, March 5, 1897 and Monday, March 8, 1897.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

So the United States government represented by Holmes Conrad swung first.

[Julie Hsu]

He would have argued, as he did in his brief, that the 14th Amendment, which guarantees citizenship to all born in the United States, has a caveat or he would have said an exception, which is only those who are born in the United States and who are subject to its jurisdiction are automatically birthright citizens of the United States, though case turned upon the meaning of the language, subject to the jurisdiction thereof, jurisdiction being of two kinds, territorial and political. And so Holmes Conrad would have grasped on to that language and said, well, Wong Kim Ark, sure he was born in the United States, we can't refute that. But we do not think he was subject to the jurisdiction of the United States because his parents were loyal to the Emperor of China and so was their son by sort of automatic transmission. And so that means the son cannot automatically acquire citizenship based on birth.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

That was the first piece of Conrad's argument. But then he made a bigger, bolder.

[Julie Hsu]

Claim, also said to the supreme court that the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution is itself unconstitutional. And his reason for that was, he said the south was coerced into ratifying the 14th amendment in 1868 and therefore it was never validly a part of the Constitution. And we can see in that argument, of course, that he's trying to litigate the Civil War. He's trying to say the Reconstruction Amendment should not be law. We should turn back the clock.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Conrad was making this argument in 1897 in front of the Supreme Court over 30 years after the ink on the 14th Amendment had dried.

[Julie Hsu]

And in fact, the lawyers for Wong Ki Marc call him on that. And they say in their brief, this nation spilled so much blood to fight for the end of slavery and to establish the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments and change our nation and change our Constitution. And you should not accept the argument that these amendments are invalid.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

The government made its argument. Then it was Wong Kim Ark's lawyer's chance to counter.

[Sandra Wong]

Well, in very simple terms, won. Kim Ark's lawyers have two main claims. One is that this principle of birthright citizenship is a long standing principle in common law. Not just American common law, but English common law.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Their second claim is that this common law principle was adopted in the 14th Amendment.

[Sandra Wong]

And therefore, if you look at the history of this principle, if you look at how it has played out over time, if you look at what the 14th Amendment was attempting to do and how discussions around it unfolded, and then you look at subsequent developments in lower federal court cases and a couple Supreme Court cases, there's plenty of grounding there to support the idea that the descendants of Chinese born in the United States are interpreted entitled to birthright citizenship.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Millions of immigrants from Europe and around the world had moved to the US in the 19th century. They were encouraged to come and populate the west through laws like the Homestead Act. And their children who were born here were de facto citizens. They could vote, at least the men could start companies. And they were making up more and more of the population. So the Supreme Court was suddenly having to address a fundamental issue.

[Sandra Wong]

If the sons and daughters of Chinese are not citizens, then what of the sons and daughters of the English, the Irish, the Germans, the French, other people who have come to the United States? If you are not a citizen upon being born on this soil, then none of those others are citizens either. That principle is universal. And if you undercut it for the descendants of Chinese, you're basically undercutting the foundations of quite a few American citizens.

[Julie Hsu]

So the length of time between the oral argument and the ruling was over a year. So the case was argued March 5 and March 8, 1897, and the final Supreme Court decision wasn't announced until March 28, 1898. And that was an extraordinary long period of time. It would be extraordinary today. It was even more so then.

[Sandra Wong]

If you had been looking at this case, not necessarily knowing what was going to happen, only knowing what you know about the Fuller Court going into it, I think you could be forgiven for being a little bit uncertain about which way this one was going to go.

[Julie Hsu]

So you can imagine the fear that Wong Kim Ark might have been feeling as month after month went by without a decision. And it's the sign the Supreme Court was really struggling with what to do in this case and how to decide it. And his lawyers were probably also greatly concerned. But they were brilliant lawyers, and they told the Supreme Court, if you rule for the government that the children of immigrants are not citizens, you will take away citizenship from hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people, including lots of white people. And the Court heard that loud and clear and even noted that in its.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Opinion that to deny citizenship to one group would be to deny citizenship to.

[Sandra Wong]

Thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German and other European and parentage who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

It took over a year, but finally the Supreme Court issued a ruling in the case of US versus Won Kim.

[Sponsor Announcement]

Arkansas.

[Julie Hsu]

On March 28th. They issued a ruling 6 to 2 because they were down a member. So only eight members.

[Sandra Wong]

And Justice Gray authors the opinion, and he finds that Wong Kim Ark and all others similarly situated are indeed entitled.

[Julie Hsu]

To birthright citizenship, regardless of the immigration status of their parents, are citizens of the United States.

[Sandra Wong]

It is conceded that if he is a citizen of the United States, the Acts of Congress known as the Chinese Exclusion Acts, prohibiting persons of the Chinese race and especially Chinese laborers from coming into the United States, do not and cannot apply to him. The fact, therefore, that acts of Congress or treaties have not permitted Chinese Persons born out of this country to become citizens by naturalization cannot exclude Chinese persons born in this country from the operation of the broad and clear words of the Constitution. All persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States. Justice Gray.

[Julie Hsu]

The Court focused on that language, said all persons. This is intended to apply to everyone and it's not intended to be so restrictive as to take away citizenship or bar citizenship from the children of immigrants. And remember, the United States is a nation of immigrants. It's not like there's just a few people who are born to non citizen parents. It's a significant percentage of the country every year is born to immigrant parents.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Quick note, all persons did not necessarily include Native Americans. And that's because tribes recognized by the US Government were considered sovereign nations with their own governments and court systems.

[Julie Hsu]

And then the Court threw in at the very end, they said, and if we were to rule any other way, we would take citizenship away from lots of, of children of not just the quote, unquote obnoxious Chinese, which is how the Court often referred to this group, but also the children of English immigrants and German immigrants and French immigrants.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

The Court ruled that citizenship is determined by whether or not someone is born on US soil, not by blood or race.

[Julie Hsu]

That I think also pragmatically led them to say no. Wong Kim, Arkansas, we're ruling for you. Not so much because we're sympathetic to children of Chinese immigrants, because we can't undo the citizenship of the children of immigrants in this country.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Wong Kim Ark, with the support of the Chinese six companies had won his case. He was recognized by the US Government as a birthright citizen, a ruling that his lawyers knew would have an impact on generations to come. And Wong Kim Ark could finally go back to his life in San Francisco.

[Julie Hsu]

Well, I would love to say it was a fully happy ending. His problems were not over, in part because the US Government didn't fully give up. It gave up on that formal legal argument, but I feel in some ways they just switched the battle to other venues. So Wang knew that if he wanted to leave the country again, he would have to prove to everyone's satisfaction, all of these white immigration inspectors, that he was the man who'd won the Supreme Court case, that he was Wong Kim Ark, that he was a citizen born in the United States, and that if they disbelieved him, he'd be stuck all over again in the steerage hold of a steamship trying to argue he could enter his country. And that must have made him very leery to even think about leaving the United States.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

But Wong Kim Ark didn't need to leave the US to land in trouble with authorities.

[Julie Hsu]

He was living in El Paso, Texas just a few years later after his win in October of 1901, living and working there. And he was arrested and charged with being a Chinese immigrant, not a native born American, a Chinese immigrant who was illegally in the United States. He had to post a $300 bond.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

That's over $10,000 in today's money.

[Julie Hsu]

And it took months to before he could convince these officials. I'm the guy who won the Supreme Court case establishing birthright citizenship. That's who I am. I am a citizen who gets to stay. This is the racial profiling of its time.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Today, on the corner of Jackson street and Grant Avenue in San Francisco, you'll find a huge mural depicting the faces of some famous Asian American people. In the bottom is an image of a 30something Wong Kim Ark. He's wearing all black, his eyebrows are raised and has a slight smile on his face. You could almost call his look hopeful. Hope that can be easy to miss in this tale of struggle and resistance. But the truth is, Wong Kim, Arkansas, decade after decade, continued to live his life between his homeland, the United States and where his wife and children lived, China. He was even able to bring some of his offspring to live in the.

[Julie Hsu]

U.S. including Wong Yuk Jim, who arrived in 1926, age 11. Just a little boy. He endures this long trip and three weeks on angel island and all the questioning that the immigration inspectors put everyone through. But then he was admitted to the United States as a US Citizen.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Wong Hyuk Jim grew up in the US he would eventually join the US Military and worked as a merchant marine. He would get married to a Japanese American woman and start a family.

[Julie Hsu]

His children and grandchildren live in the United States today. So the family established itself in the United States. It was an enormous struggle, but they succeeded in doing so.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Wong Hyuk Jim would name one of his daughters Sandra. Sandra Wong Wong Kim Ark's great granddaughter.

[Julie Kane]

Wong Kim Ark was, you know, born in San Francisco and he, you know, was discriminated against. And he fought for his right to be here. He fought for what he believed in and he won, which was significant because. Because it established birthright citizenship for everyone.

[Sandra Wong]

And what is birthright citizenship.

[Julie Kane]

To me? To the regular person? If you are born here, you are a citizen.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Wong Kim Ark would go back to visit China one last time in 1931. He was in his 60s. He never came home to the U.S. it isn't just on that street in Chinatown that Wong Kim Ark's image looms large. The ruling in the US vs Wong Kim Ark has remained firmly in place, even though it has and will continue to be challenged. Wong Kim Ark's fight for recognition may not have made his life that much easier, but his sacrifices cleared a path for his descendants and for the descendants of millions of others. For my son whose rights as a citizen are secured by birth. For the millions of others whose rights are secured by the soil and not by their skin color or ethnicity. And he helped make real the aspirational language of our nation's founding document.

[Julie Hsu]

All persons born or naturalized in the.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

United States and subject to the jurisdiction.

[Julie Hsu]

Thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Nor shall any state deprive any person.

[Julie Hsu]

Of life, liberty or property without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

That's it for this week's show. I'm Ramtin Arablouei.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

I'm Rund Abdelfatah and you've been listening to Throughline from npr.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

This episode was produced by me and.

[Julie Hsu]

Me and Lawrence Wu, Laine, Kaplan Levinson, Julie Kane, Victor Iz, Anya Steinberg, Yolanda Sanguine, Casey Minor.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Fact checking for this episode was done by Kevin Voelk.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Thanks to Casey Morell, Don Gonyea, Cory Turner, Blaise Adler, Ivanbrook, Lawrence Wu, Casey Minor, Amiri Tullah, Christina Kim and Devin Katayama for their voiceover work. Thank you to the Chinese Historical Society of America for all their help. Thanks also to Tamar Charney and Anya Grundman.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Special thanks to Sandra Wong and Julie Hsu.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

This episode was mixed by Josh Newell.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

Music for this episode was composed by Ramtin and his band Drop Electric, which.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

Includes Naveed Marvi, Sho Fujiwara, Anya Mizani.

[Rund Abdelfatah]

We're going to be talking about the art of cinematic storytelling at the On Air Fest in Brooklyn on February 21st. Want to come? Go to onairfest.com and use the code throughline40 to get 40% off your ticket.

[Ramtin Arablouei]

And finally, if you have an idea or like something you heard on the show, please write [e-mail] thanks for listening.

[Narrator]

This message comes from Sony Pictures Classics presenting Becoming Led Zeppelin, the first officially sanctioned documentary on the greatest band in rock. Powered by awe inspiring psychedelic never before seen footage. This experiential cinematic odyssey explores Led Zeppelin's personal, creative and musical musical origin story and meteoric rise in just one year. Against all the Odds, told in the band's own words for the first time. Opens exclusively in IMAX February 7th. Everywhere February 14th this message comes from Warby Parker. If you wear glasses, you know how hard it is to find the perfect pair. But step into a Warby Parker store and you'll see it doesn't have to be. Find a Warby Parker store near [e-mail] retail. This message comes from Bombas. Socks, underwear and T shirts are the top three requested clothing items by people experiencing homelessness. Bombas makes all three and donates one item for every item purchased. Go to bombas. Com npr and use code npr for 20% off.