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Rund Abdelfatah
this is America in Pursuit, a limited run series from NPR and Throughline. I'm Rund Abdelfatah. Each week we bring you stories about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the US that began 250 years ago. Over the past few months, we've been exploring how people have pushed and fought to make the promises laid out in the Declaration of Independence come true. And in so doing, they've defined and redefined what it means to be American. And what better example for understanding the identity of the nation than. Than an American superhero.
Narrator/Commentator
We shall call you Captain America.
Rund Abdelfatah
Captain America. Because of all the heroes, Captain America has always been a mirror into what it means to be American.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Rund Abdelfatah
First introduced to comic readers in 1941, on the eve of the United States entry Into World War II, Captain America was depicted as a blonde haired, blue eyed, white super soldier. To this day, his superhero costume is red, white and blue with a giant white star on his chest. He's pretty much wearing the American flag. And his only superhuman power is his strength. He carries no weapon and only a shield. And he fights only when he must.
Comic Book Analyst/Commentator
He's not someone who has always known power, so he is someone who knows what it is like to be the one getting sand kicked in their face. He's on the side of the little guy.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
Time for Captain America to go to work.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
Bam.
Rund Abdelfatah
Many of us know Captain America from the Marvel movies he's in. But let's face it, out of all the superheroes, he doesn't have the coolest superpower. He can't fly or shoot webs or turn invisible. But what he does have going for him, aside from his super strength, are his morals.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
He's a character that all the other characters in Marvel look up to when they don't know what's the right thing to do.
Rund Abdelfatah
The right thing to do.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
I came here to save blood, not to shed it.
Rund Abdelfatah
In some ways, Captain America is someone many of us might want to be or might want to believe in. Kind of like America itself. We want to live in a place that stands up to bullies, that knows right from wrong and calls out injustice.
Comic Book Analyst/Commentator
You are never going to be Superman unless you suddenly find a lot of money from somewhere. You are never going to be Batman. But there's always that chance, isn't there, that you could one day be Captain America.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
Justice will always triumph.
Rund Abdelfatah
You, me, any one of us. We could be the good guy doing the right thing. But what happens when what's right isn't so clear? How does a comic book hero designed to represent America's values survive in a changing world? On today's episode, Throughline producer Devin Katayama brings us the story of what happened to Captain America after World War II and what his identity crisis tells us about what it means to be an American today. That's coming up after a quick.
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Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
Like all superheroes, Captain America has an origin story, and his goes like this. The scrawny guy named Steve Rogers is too weak to volunteer for the army, but he's got grit. So when the US Government asks him to be part of an experiment, he doesn't hesitate. Don't be afraid, son. You're about to become one of America's saviors. They inject him with a serum to give him super strength, and there it is done.
Narrator/Commentator
We shall call you Captain America.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
During World War II, Captain America fought Nazi saboteur and Japanese soldiers.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
Come on out, you skunk.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
He epitomized American power and identity wearing a red, white and blue costume that looked like a reimagined American flag.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
Justice will always triumph,
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
but after World War II, when the US emerged as a global superpower, Captain America didn't have a clear enemy.
Narrator/Commentator
Captain America, without a big war that the country is involved in, almost becomes directionless.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
This is Danny Fingerroth.
Narrator/Commentator
He wrote the book A Marvelous the Amazing Story of Stan Lee.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
Stan Lee is one of the most well known comic book writers in history. But at this time, he struggled to find an enemy worthy enough for Captain America. And Cap disappeared from comic books in the 1950s. But then 10 years later, in 1964, Stan Lee brings Captain America back.
Narrator/Commentator
Stan somehow made this appearance of Captain America the most important event of my Life. I bought three copies. That's right. I invested 36 cents.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
But all of a sudden, this American war hero was in the middle of the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement. A war in Vietnam was going on. So where does Captain America fit into all this?
Narrator/Commentator
Cap became this like Hamlet kind of character, just always with his. His hand stapled to his forehead in grief and anguish.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
I don't belong in this age. In this year. No place for me.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
By the late 60s, Marvel was also printing letters from fans inside the comic books where they would debate who Captain America should be and what he should stand for.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
His roots belong in the past, not now.
Rund Abdelfatah
No one but a dreamer can think the world is safe and peaceful.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
It became known as the patriotism centered controversy. Captain America is not a superhero. He's a super American.
Narrator/Commentator
Stan saw things were changing, and he also saw that his audience was changing. So it was a big problem for somebody in entertainment like that. You know, if you take a stand on an issue, you potentially lose half your audience.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
So Stan Lee tried to play it safe, but there was a lot of pressure from. For Captain America to be something more than a relic of World War II, which is what happened when the next generation of Captain America writers took over.
Steve Englehart
I always wanted a secret room like Batman had, you know, where you go through the grandfather clock and go into the cave or whatever.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
This is comic book writer Steve Englehart. I met up with him at his home in Oakland, California.
Steve Englehart
And so we built this.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
It's a bookcase that's a secret door. Englehart wrote Captain America comics from Marvel in the 1970s after becoming a conscientious objector during the war in Vietnam. So here's this anti war writer in charge of writing for a war hero. And Englehart begins to wonder if maybe where the writers before him went wrong was trying to equate Captain America with the American government or military. Instead, Steve thought, what if he stood
Steve Englehart
for American ideals, the stuff that transcends whatever America's doing at this particular time. And then they caught the Watergate burglars breaking into the Watergate Hotel to burgle the Democrats.
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The incident raises a number of serious
Rund Abdelfatah
questions about the credibility of politicians and political groups.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
Englehart was hooked on this story, as was most of America. And he asked himself, if I were
Steve Englehart
Captain America, what would I do?
Rund Abdelfatah
The Secret Empire.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
Steve writes a story that parodies the
Steve Englehart
scandal, so I recast stuff. Nixon's right hand man was Haldeman, who had been an advertising guy. And I came up with a character called Harderman, who was an advertising guy. And Nixon's re election committee was the Committee to re elect the President, which was known as creep. And I came up with the Committee to Regain America's Principles, which is known as crap.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
And he doesn't say it explicitly in the comic, but the head of the Secret Empire is basically Richard Nixon.
Steve Englehart
Nobody is in doubt really who that's supposed to be. Captain America. One day discovered that there were ads being run by the Committee to Regain America's Principles saying that Captain America was a vigilante not to be trusted. Then Captain America got thrown in jail,
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
but he breaks out of jail and chases the head of the Secret Empire
Steve Englehart
into the White House, into the Oval office.
Comic Book Character Voice (Captain America)
All right, Mr. Into the Line.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
It appears that my gamble has failed. Finally failed. Captain America wins, of course, but he's also broken.
Steve Englehart
So to have that guy find out that the President was a crook, I saw the possibilities of that guy being disillusioned.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
And Steve Rogers stops being Captain America and instead becomes a superhero called Nomad.
Steve Englehart
He doesn't want to stand for the America that he just saw.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
Less than a year later, Steve Rogers went back to being Captain America.
Steve Englehart
He could stand for ideals, even if the President was a crook.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
But Steve Englehart had forever changed the idea of what patriotism could mean to Captain America. That he could love his country and also not love what his government was doing. And that mutating identity would become the constant. As new writers came in. The iterations that followed have often been a response to the moment they're born in. Up until the present moment, Cap's been more militant. He fought terrorism after 9 11. Then he was critical of Guantanamo Bay. There have been black Captain Americas, a native Captain America. In the latest Captain America movie, Cap teams up with a superhero originally named Sabra, an agent for Israel's national intelligence agency, Mossad. After getting backlash, the studio decided to call her Ruth and had her work instead for the United States. These debates about what Captain America should stand for, who he should fight for, and what is right or wrong, they're all part of the conversation we continue to have about who we are and who we want to be. They all ask us. If we were Captain America, what would we do?
Rund Abdelfatah
That's it for this week's show. If you want to hear the full length episode all about the origins and many transformations of Captain America, check out the full length episode, does America Need a Hero? And join us next week for a look into how America got sold on the prosperity gospel.
Steve Englehart
God says it, I can have it. I believe it.
Narrator/Producer (Devin Katayama)
That settles it.
Rund Abdelfatah
The story of what happens when religion, capitalism and television collide. That's next week. Don't miss it. This episode was produced by Kiana Moghadam and edited by Christina Kim and Julia Redpath with help from the Throughline production team. Music by Ramtin Adablouei and his band Drop Electric. Special thanks to Julie Cain, Irene Noguchi, Beth Donovan, Casey Minor and Lindsey McKenna. I'm Rund Abdelfattah. Thanks for listening.
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Podcast: NPR’s Throughline
Host: Rund Abdelfatah
Date: June 16, 2026
In this episode of Throughline, host Rund Abdelfatah explores the evolution of Captain America, using his journey as a lens to examine the shifting identity and conscience of the United States. Through archival comic book voices, interviews with historians and writers, and insightful narration, the episode traces how Captain America has mirrored—and at times challenged—the nation's sense of justice, patriotism, and self-understanding from World War II to today.