Throughline (NPR): "ICE"

Air Date: September 4, 2025
Hosts: Rund Abdelfattah & Ramtin Arablouei
Guests:

• Roger Werner (current DHS employee, ICE founding member, and immigration historian; appearing in a private capacity)
• Peter Markowitz (professor at Cardozo School of Law, founder of the Kathryn O. Greenberg Immigration Justice Clinic)

Episode Overview

This episode of Throughline takes a deep dive into the creation, evolution, and current state of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), tracing how the agency and American immigration enforcement fundamentally changed after 9/11. With historical context, personal accounts, and expert analysis, the hosts explore ICE's origins, its expanding mandate, and the acceleration of enforcement under President Trump’s second term, including the social, legal, and political ramifications felt today.

Key Sections & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: 9/11 and a Policy Turning Point

(00:18 - 05:54)

• The episode opens amid the national chaos of September 11, 2001, detailing how the attack shifted federal priorities towards immigration enforcement.
• The failure to catch visa fraud among the hijackers put a spotlight on the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), which became a scapegoat for security lapses.
• Formation of the Department of Homeland Security and ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) followed swiftly, reallocating massive resources and authority towards enforcement and deportation.

Quote:
"911 was the turning point, the before and after, for how immigration enforcement works in this country today."
— Rund Abdelfattah (03:00)

2. Origins: Crime, Law, and “Illegal Immigrants” in the 1980s and '90s

(07:58 - 17:26)

• ICE’s roots lie in the ‘80s “crime wave” fears—a time when police began to conflate immigration and public safety issues, despite data showing immigrants commit fewer crimes.
• Successive expansions of “aggravated felony” deportable offenses—from serious crimes to minor infractions like check fraud or drug possession.
• By the mid-1990s, high-profile incidents like the Oklahoma City bombing (done by a U.S. citizen) paradoxically fueled stricter anti-immigrant policies.

Quote:
"The irony is the attacker in this case was a US citizen. So a domestic terror, the worst domestic terror incident in American history by a white man, you know, born and raised in the U.S. ... how does that connect to the story about immigration?"
— Host, rephrasing Peter Markowitz (13:35)

• 1996 legislation allowed local police to enforce federal immigration law, but initially most declined for both practical and trust reasons.

3. The Birth of ICE and Post-9/11 Expansion

(18:39 - 27:18)

• The 2002 Homeland Security Act dissolved INS, creating DHS and ICE as key players in immigration enforcement.
• Internally, the transition was described as “mayhem” with staff unsure of protocols, but the enforcement focus remained: “the worst of the worst” and potential terror threats.
• Over time, deportations soared, affecting mainly nonviolent immigrants without criminal records.

Quote:
"Because if you look at the reality at its inception, the goal was 100% enforcement to deport each and every non citizen that could potentially be deported. So the data is consistent with that original strategic plan and very inconsistent with the rhetoric which says we're going after the worst of the worst."
— Peter Markowitz (24:50)

4. Interlocking Police and Immigration Systems: Secure Communities

(27:18 - 30:47)

• ICE leveraged local police through programs like Secure Communities, which routed fingerprints obtained at arrest to federal immigration databases—automatically entangling local policing and federal immigration enforcement.
• Under Obama, Secure Communities became nationwide, resulting in record deportations—fueling the “Deporter in Chief” nickname among activists.

5. Zero Tolerance: Family Separation and the Rise of Abolish ICE

(30:47 - 35:51)

• Tom Homan advanced harsher policies within ICE, including family separation—first proposed under Obama, fully implemented under Trump (2018), causing national outrage and over 5,500 parent-child separations.
• The backlash led to Trump reversing the policy, but not before sparking a broad and deep “Abolish ICE” movement, questioning the agency’s very existence and approach.

Quote:
"All of them [other federal agencies] enforce those civil legal limits without huge militarized agencies that put people in cages... That should be our first approach with immigration."
— Peter Markowitz (34:29)

6. The Present Day: Mass Deportation in Trump’s Second Term

(38:06 - 49:49)

• Under Trump’s second term, ICE’s activities reached new levels:
  • “Shock and awe” operations with daily mass raids, National Guard deployment, and highly visible enforcement—often with viral videos circulating online.
  • Record budget allocations: $170B for border enforcement, $75B for ICE alone (40:19).
  • Use of expedited removal and curtailment of court oversight, resulting in swift deportations with minimal due process.
  • Reports of overcrowding and poor conditions in detention centers, likened to prisons.

Quote:
"The scale of detention is going to be astronomical. ... We are at real risk of kind of becoming a police state. And we've already seen that ICE doesn't hesitate to move against citizens when it perceives the need to do so."
— Peter Markowitz (46:27)

7. The Pendulum and Political Control

(48:15 - 51:07)

• Roger Werner frames the history of immigration enforcement as a pendulum: a cycle of public generosity and backlash, reflected in the expansion and contraction of agencies like ICE.
• Peter Markowitz disagrees, declaring this moment unprecedented—checks and balances within the agency, immigration courts, and even the Supreme Court are fading.

Quote:
"We are in a really, really, really precarious place as a country."
— Peter Markowitz (49:49)

8. Conclusion: What’s Next?

(51:32 - end)

• The episode closes with a preview of the next installment focusing on the U.S. southern border’s transformation and a reflection on the politicization and profitability of immigration enforcement in the U.S.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ICE’s Mission:
  "The work that we do is to protect people and make sure that we remove these weapons and drugs off of our streets and hold those criminals accountable."
  — Rund Abdelfattah, voicing official ICE rhetoric (04:23)

• On Detention Centers:
  "It is indistinguishable from the jails and prisons that I've also routinely visited. In fact, sometimes they're exactly the same facilities. ... people routinely die in immigration detention because of inadequate medical care."
  — Peter Markowitz (45:17)

• On Civil Offense vs. Crime:
  "Overstaying a visa in the United States is a civil offense... Entering illegally is a crime; the first time, it's a misdemeanor. After that, it's a felony."
  — Rund Abdelfattah (25:51)

• On Enforcement Cycles:
  "This comes in waves about every 30 years with our immigration policy...there's always a pendulum swing."
  — Roger Werner (48:29)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:18 — The post-9/11 panic & the birth of ICE
• 08:03 — Immigration and crime policy in the '80s/'90s
• 13:35 — Oklahoma City bombing and anti-immigration backlash
• 18:39 — ICE is created: inside the DHS reorganization
• 24:50 — ICE's actual mission versus the rhetoric
• 28:15 — Secure Communities: Federal-local law enforcement integration
• 30:47 — Tom Homan, family separation, and Trump 1.0
• 34:29 — Peter Markowitz on alternatives to ICE’s punitive enforcement
• 38:06 — “Shock and awe”: ICE in Trump’s second term
• 41:25 — Deterrence, desperation, and the risks families take
• 45:17 — Inside ICE detention centers
• 46:27 — Massive funding and fears of a "police state"
• 48:29 — The fifty-year pendulum (Werner) vs. real rupture (Markowitz)
• 49:49 — Erosion of institutional checks on ICE's power
• 51:32 — Teaser for the next episode

Tonal Highlights

• The episode blends journalistic detachment with pointed moral and societal questioning.
• Both hosts and guests offer historically grounded, sometimes emotional, and always sharply skeptical views of the rhetoric surrounding immigration enforcement.
• The tone throughout is urgent, measured, and conscious of the complex realities faced by immigrants, ICE agents, and the American public alike.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This Throughline episode offers a sweeping, nuanced history of U.S. immigration enforcement, centering ICE’s rise and the political pendulum that shapes—and sometimes warps—its mission. Through interviews, historical audio, and expert commentary, it makes clear how intertwined immigration enforcement is with American identity, security anxieties, and the shifting sands of politics. The episode is indispensable for anyone seeking to understand how and why ICE became one of the nation’s most powerful, controversial agencies—and what its future might mean for America.

End of Summary