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Narrator/Quote Reader (0:33)

We did not ask if he had seen any monsters, for monsters have ceased to be news. There is never any shortage of horrible creatures who prey on human beings, snatch away their food, or devour whole populations. But examples of wise social planning are not so easy to find.

Rund Abdelfattah (Host) (0:53)

It's the year 1516. We're inside the pages of a book called Utopia, breathing the fictional air of Antwerp, Belgium.

Narrator/Quote Reader (1:03)

The Utopians fail to understand why anyone should be so fascinated by the dull gleam of a tiny bit of stone when he has all the stars in the sky to look at.

Rund Abdelfattah (Host) (1:13)

An old sunburned, long bearded traveler named Raphael Haithalide has just returned to Europe after spending five years on an island called Utopia, and he's seeing the world with new eyes, ranting to anyone who will listen.

Narrator/Quote Reader (1:28)

I can perceive nothing but a certain conspiracy of rich men procuring their own commodities under the name and title of the Nation.

Rund Abdelfattah (Host) (1:35)

About corrupt leaders, absurd laws, and the enclosure system in which so called landlords fence off lands belonging to villagers, turning them into their personal fiefdoms, all for the sake of profit. What a contrast to the island of Utopia, he reminisces, where every man has

Narrator/Quote Reader (1:55)

a right to everything.

Rund Abdelfattah (Host) (1:57)

Gold is used for chamber pots, private property isn't a thing. Everyone wears the exact same colorless clothes and works six hour days, everyone has his eye upon you, and all movement is perfectly regulated.

Narrator/Quote Reader (2:13)

If any man goes out of the city to which he belongs without leave, he is taken for a fugitive, severely punished, and if he does this often, he is condemned to slavery.

Rund Abdelfattah (Host) (2:28)

The author of this book, Thomas Moore, invented the word utopia. It's a Greek pun combining utopos no place and utopos good place. It asks in a tongue in cheek way, is a perfect society possible? Or is the fantasy just a mirror held up to reality and a chance to change it?

Summary

Throughline – “The Billionaires’ Utopia Blueprint”

Date: April 23, 2026
Hosts: Rund Abdelfatah and Ramtin Arablouei
Theme Overview:
This episode explores the persistent human urge to design and build utopias—from the philosophical ideal posed in Thomas More’s Utopia to the present-day attempts by tech billionaires to create new, privately controlled societies on earth and beyond. Through historical case studies and contemporary experiments such as seasteads and Prospera, the hosts dissect the motivations, successes, failures, and ethical questions behind “utopia blueprints” drawn (and funded) by the ultra-wealthy.

Main Themes and Episode Structure

Historical roots of “utopia” (00:33–02:28)
Svalbard: Open borders and the flaws of sovereignty (06:03–18:34)
The libertarian dream of seasteading (20:12–35:11)
Startup nations and Prospera in Honduras (36:29–49:53)
Reflections: Who gets to design the rules? (49:10–50:29)

Detailed Breakdown & Key Insights

1. What is Utopia? (00:33–03:06)

Historical Framing: Rund Abdelfatah introduces Utopia (1516) by Thomas More, questioning if a perfect society is possible or if the concept simply mirrors reality and offers a chance to change it.
Quote: “We did not ask if he had seen any monsters, for monsters have ceased to be news…But examples of wise social planning are not so easy to find.” (00:33)
Utopia is depicted as a society without private property, with open access to goods, regulated movement, and communal living—but with strict uniformity and harsh punishments.
The ‘utopia’ concept is presented as both inspiration and warning—highlighting how dreams of perfection could slip into dystopia.

2. The Real-World Utopias: Svalbard (06:03–18:34)

Svalbard’s Unusual Status

Atusa Araxia Abrahamian (journalist/author) describes the hidden complexities of global political architecture.

“Svalbard is the only place in the world with open borders.” (08:08 – Abrahamian)
History Recap: Svalbard, Arctic territory of Norway, an uninhabited “no man’s land” until mined for coal by John Munro Longyear, who saw himself as a “polar emperor.”

“He could smell coal. He knew where it was.” (09:28 – Abrahamian)

Messy Experiments in Sovereignty

Early 1900s: “Company town” with isolated laborers, conflicts over property, no government authority:

“Svalbard had no courts, no police, no property law.” (12:06 – Host)
Attempts by Longyear to get the US to claim Svalbard using the Guano Act failed.
After WWI: The territory handed to Norway, but with a treaty keeping its borders open for business and research.
“Svalbard wasn’t a utopia, but over time it did come to represent a place of global cooperation.” (16:18 – Host)

Modern Svalbard & Changing Borders

Svalbard now houses the “Doomsday” Global Seed Vault—insurance for global agriculture.

“This is the most valuable natural resource in the world.” (16:51 – Seasteading founder)
As geopolitics shift, Norway is asserting greater sovereignty, restricting foreign influence, suggesting the current world order is fragile and subject to rewriting:

“The nation state model...is both very new and very fragile and might just be a blip.” (17:48 – Abrahamian)

3. The Seasteading Experiment & the Tech Libertarian Vision (20:12–35:11)

The Dream

Inspired by old “Wild West” myths, Wayne Gramlich, a retired engineer, dreams of new societies at sea:

“Unlike the colonization of the west, where there were previous occupants, in the ocean, the only previous occupants are the fish.” (22:39 – Gramlich)
He authors a technical manual for “Seasteading,” seeing ocean-based start-ups as the new frontiers.

The Reality

Partnership with Patri Friedman (grandson of economist Milton Friedman):

“It was a way to create more nation states in the world, to create competition and have better ideas.” (25:19 – Abrahamian, paraphrasing Friedman)
Attracts interest and funding from Peter Thiel, PayPal co-founder and idol of the libertarian Silicon Valley ethos.

“What if I give you half a million to promote the idea and push it forward?” (28:51 – Gramlich)
The Seasteading Institute is founded, using language and imagery echoing Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged.

"Let a thousand nations bloom." (29:05 – Host; Friedman catchphrase)

Where Did It Go?

Engineering and marketing push but ultimate technical and political hurdles stall big projects.
Early efforts (like “Burning Man on the Water”) fizzle; large-scale seasteads never realized.

“I view large seasteading as a complete failure, but the small stuff is happening.” (34:40 – Gramlich)
Christian critiques about escapism and feasibility:

“If you're going to do this libertarian stuff, you might want to see if you can just find somebody who will loan you some dirt to do it on. It's probably going to be easier than building a seastead.” (35:00 – Gramlich)

4. Startup Nations: The Case of Prospera, Honduras (36:29–49:53)

Prospera as a Corporate Utopia

Dan Gurma (NPR producer) visits the Prospera project, “an experiment in what the future of cities could look like if they were run by corporations.” (37:34 – Host)
No oversight from Honduran authorities; businesses pick their regulations; crypto is preferred.
Funded by tech heavyweights: Peter Thiel, Marc Andreessen, Sam Altman, Balaji Srinivasan.

Ideological Blueprint: Network States

Srinivasan’s book How to Start a New Country advocates digital communities ("network states") that materialize physically.

“Can we print out these online communities of gigantic scale into the physical world?” (38:52 – Tech supporter)

Controversies & Reality

Prospera’s origins coincided with Honduran political crisis; legislation enabled autonomous “charter cities.”
Critics highlight lack of consultation with locals, property disputes, worker protections, and fears about sovereignty and neo-colonialism.
Paul Romer, the economist whose ideas inspired “charter cities,” distances himself as Prospera takes on a libertarian, corporate character.

“The point of a place like Prospera is that there isn’t really a public to answer to.” (45:37 – Host)
Recent legal battles: Honduran government repealed charter city law, declared Prospera illegal; Prospera sues for $10.7 billion (~25% of Honduras' GDP).

“How is this not coercion when you have all of these levers at your disposal to achieve what you want to achieve?” (47:24 – Tech enthusiast/supporter)
Other projects: Elon Musk’s Starbase (Texas), California Forever, Trump’s "Freedom Cities", all propose privately-controlled, regulation-free urban developments—many still virtual.

5. Reflections & Ethical Questions (49:10–50:29)

The hosts return to the allegory of Utopia, noting that today's network-state experiments are less about perfect societies than efficient corporate domains.

“The people designing these cities might not care if their choices lead to utopia or dystopia for the rest of us, because the cities aren’t necessarily for us.” (49:53 – Host)
Abrahamian’s critique:

“I don't think that Elon Musk is saying we're going to create this...perfect society on the moon...The focus really is on how can we make business work better. How can we cut through red tape? That's not utopian unless you live in a society of corporations.” (49:53 – Abrahamian)

Notable Quotes & Moments

On Utopia’s True Purpose:
“Is a perfect society possible? Or is the fantasy just a mirror held up to reality and a chance to change it?” (02:28 – Abdelfattah)
On Libertarian Escapism:
“Tech billionaires like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel have backed experiments designed to operate beyond the borders and laws most of us live by.” (03:36 – Host)
On Political Fragility:
“The nation state model...is both very new and very fragile and might just be a blip.” (17:48 – Abrahamian)
On the Limits of Exit:
“It was never really my intent to get involved in the politics...sometimes you have to pick up a stone and just need to make move it a little further down the road and the next person picks it up and moves it a little further.” (33:23–33:44 – Gramlich)
On Corporate Utopias:
“The focus really is on how can we make business work better? How can we cut through red tape? That's not utopian unless you live in a society of corporations.” (49:53 – Abrahamian)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:33 – Opening reflections on Utopia (Thomas More)
06:03 – Svalbard: open borders, the origin story
14:48 – End of WWI, rise of nation-states, Svalbard’s treaty
20:12 – Introduction to seasteading, libertarian tech vision
29:05 – “Let a thousand nations bloom”; Peter Thiel funds Seasteading Institute
34:40 – Seasteading’s legacy: from big dreams to floating homes
36:29 – Prospera, Honduras: startup nations and charter cities
42:41 – Paul Romer and the charter city concept
45:37 – Criticisms and controversies at Prospera
49:10 – Closing: from utopian allegory to billionaire blueprints

Final Reflection

The drive to design utopias—whether by philosophers, colonists, or tech barons—remains deeply intertwined with questions of who gets to write the rules and for whom the “better world” is truly intended. The episode warns that contemporary billionaire-driven experiments look less like collective utopias and more like corporate, exclusive enclaves, with profound implications for democracy, sovereignty, and the future of social organization.

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The billionaires' utopia blueprint