The license to be funny in America

Summary

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Throughline – “The License to Be Funny in America”

Date: July 28, 2026
Host: Rund Abdelfattah (NPR)
Main Theme:
The exploration of the uniquely American license to mock those in power, the critical role of humor and satire in shaping American identity, and the history and impact of stand-up and Black comedy.

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Overview

In this episode of Throughline’s limited series "America in Pursuit," Rund Abdelfattah delves into the powerful relationship between American comedy, the First Amendment, and the nation’s social fabric. Through archival tapes, expert interviews, and historic anecdotes, the episode examines how satire both confronts and survives systems of power—and how marginalized groups, especially Black performers, have wielded humor as both shield and weapon.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Sacred Right to Satire

• First Amendment & Comedy
  • American comedians have a unique "license" to lampoon public figures and officials, a right enshrined by the Constitution.
    • "The First Amendment is first for a reason. The Second Amendment is just in case the first one doesn't work out." — Dave Chappelle [00:50]
• Mark Twain’s Philosophy
  • Twain observed that humor’s roots lie in sorrow, not joy.
    • "The secret source of humor is not joy, but sorrow. There is no humor in heaven." — Quoted by Rund Abdelfattah [00:59]

Satire’s Role in Democracy

• Punching Up

  • Satirists traditionally "punch up," targeting powerful institutions and figures as a check on power.
  • Stephen Colbert and Bill Maher referenced as modern satirists who critique political figures relentlessly.
    • "Apparently, Trump learned that violent mass goons are not crowd pleasers." — Stephen Colbert [03:13]
    • "What the Democrats are scared of more than anything else, besides gluten..." — Bill Maher [03:26]

• Influence of Mark Twain

  • Twain’s style—mixing biting critique with self-deprecation—creates a unique intimacy, making social criticism more palatable.
    • "He's always the first to recognize his own frailties, which means that even when he's challenging you, he's also your friend." — Actor Richard Thomas on Twain [05:02]

Comedy’s Political Impact

• The Power of Parody

  • Notable satirical performances (e.g., Tina Fey as Sarah Palin, Melissa McCarthy as Sean Spicer) often outlive the political moment itself.
  • Parody can reshape perceptions of politicians to the public.

• Political Backlash

  • While politicians often publicly tolerate satire (JFK gifting parody albums), some—like Donald Trump—respond with open hostility, seeing satire as partisan attack.
    • "It's not about being funny... It's about advancing a liberal agenda and one against Donald Trump." — Sean Spicer [07:13]
  • Rund notes: “It's the clearest indication of the power of satire.” [07:21]

Satire as Survival & Subversion—African American Humor

• Academic Insight

  • Prof. Danielle Fuentes Morgan discusses how Black satire has functioned as both subversion and survival tactic, asserting Black dignity and resilience in hostile environments.
    • "Satire is about subversion. It is a survival tactic... meant to open up space for black life. It demonstrates black resiliency, black selfhood and black intelligence." — Danielle Fuentes Morgan [07:52]

• Jordan Anderson’s Remarkable Letter

  • Anderson, a formerly enslaved man, replied to his ex-master with veiled humor that mixed horror and irony to powerful effect.
    • “If you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will better be able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again.” — Read by Laurence Fishburne [08:45]
    • Rund: “It vacillates so beautifully between comedy and horror.” [09:01]

• The Power of Laughter to Disarm

  • Humor creates safe spaces for challenging conversations:
    • "You've created a space where people are a little bit more willing to hear it because they're laughing." — Danielle Fuentes Morgan [09:39]

The Birth of Stand-Up Comedy

• Origins in Vaudeville and Mob-Culture
  • Stand-up, as a term and format, crystallized in the 20th century from vaudeville’s costumed acts to the bare-stage, joke-first approach.
    • Frank Fay revolutionized the art, moving away from costumes and slapstick to a more direct, personal performance style.
    • The term “stand-up comic” originated with mob-controlled nightclubs—borrowed from the term for reliable boxers.
      • "A stand up comic was a guy who could go up on stage, take abuse from hecklers... Joke, joke, joke, joke. Very reliable performer, they called him a stand up comic." — Cliff Nesteroff [12:08]

Black Comedy Reshapes the American Canon

• Eddie Murphy & Richard Pryor

  • Black comedians reshaped stand-up with candid, unapologetic commentary on American life.
    • “America is great indeed. Imagine a country so free one can throw glass on the streets.” — Eddie Murphy (Coming to America) [12:51]
  • Journalist Jeff Bennett explains how Richard Pryor’s rawness introduced truth-telling as a comedic norm, and how ’90s Black sitcoms brought authenticity to mainstream TV.

• The Double Bind for Black Performers

  • Historically, Black comedians carried both the burden and opportunity to represent more than themselves.
    • “They had to sort of carry the responsibility of being a black artist and representing the fullness of that experience.” — Jeff Bennett [14:43]

• Complicated Legacy of "Amos and Andy"

  • Show’s history—from racist white portrayal to first all-Black TV cast—reflects both limitations and breakthroughs in representation.
    • “What fascinated me is realizing the story of black comedy has always moved through contradictions like that. Moments of limitation that eventually open the door for something bigger and something better.” — Jeff Bennett [16:53]

Comedy as Social Change

• Richard Pryor’s Enduring Genius

  • Pryor’s comedy blended the hilarious, painful, and deeply personal—giving permission for vulnerability and realness on stage.
    • "There was this full complexity of being human. And he did it in a way that was raw, that was vulnerable, that was hilarious." — Jeff Bennett [17:39]

• Modern Icons: Chris Rock & Dave Chappelle

  • Today’s top comics use their platform to critique society, continuing the tradition of comedy as political language and economic engine.

• The Sitcom Boom

  • ’90s comedies like “Martin,” “Fresh Prince,” and “In Living Color” were groundbreaking for their authenticity and resonance.
    • "There was a specificity and authenticity that made them universal. So it was black audiences and white audiences watching these shows side by side. And that's why they've been so culturally impactful." — Jeff Bennett [19:48]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "The First Amendment is first for a reason. The Second Amendment is just in case the first one doesn't work out." — Dave Chappelle [00:50]
• "The secret source of humor is not joy, but sorrow. There is no humor in heaven." — Mark Twain, quoted by Rund Abdelfattah [00:59]
• "Apparently, Trump learned that violent mass goons are not crowd pleasers." — Stephen Colbert [03:13]
• "He's always the first to recognize his own frailties, which means that even when he's challenging you, he's also your friend." — Actor Richard Thomas on Mark Twain [05:02]
• “Satire is about subversion. It is a survival tactic that is meant to open up space for black life... black resiliency, black selfhood and black intelligence.” — Danielle Fuentes Morgan [07:52]
• “If you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will better be able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again.” — Laurence Fishburne as Jordan Anderson [08:45]
• "A stand up comic was a guy who could go up on stage, take abuse from hecklers... Joke, joke, joke, joke. Very reliable performer, they called him a stand up comic." — Clifford Nesteroff [12:08]
• “What fascinated me is realizing the story of black comedy has always moved through contradictions like that. Moments of limitation that eventually open the door for something bigger and something better.” — Jeff Bennett [16:53]
• "There was this full complexity of being human. And he did it in a way that was raw, that was vulnerable, that was hilarious." — Jeff Bennett on Richard Pryor [17:39]
• “There was a specificity and authenticity that made them universal... So it was black audiences and white audiences watching these shows side by side.” — Jeff Bennett [19:48]

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Notable Timestamps

• Opening/Theme Introduction – [00:16–01:44]
  — Rund Abdelfattah sets up the episode’s core question about humor and liberty in America.
• Satirists and Power – [03:06–05:36]
  — Reflections on Colbert, Maher, Mark Twain, and the concept of “punching up.”
• Political Parody’s Influence – [05:36–07:21]
  — How comedians like Tina Fey and Melissa McCarthy impact national perceptions.
• African American Satire as Survival – [07:25–09:44]
  — Danielle Fuentes Morgan on Black resilience and humor.
• History and Etymology of Stand-up – [10:11–12:36]
  — Cliff Nesteroff connects vaudeville, the mob, and the rise of the stand-up comedian.
• Black Comedy’s Legacy and 1990s Boom – [13:01–19:48]
  — Jeff Bennett weaves a narrative from minstrelsy, Amos & Andy, to Pryor and the sitcom golden age.

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Conclusion

This episode vividly illustrates how the “license to be funny” is both tradition and tool in the U.S., used by generations of comedians—especially those from marginalized backgrounds—to question, critique, and even reshape American society. Whether in the halls of power or grassroots communities, humor in America has always done more than entertain: it has kept the conversation alive, honest, and unapologetically free.

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Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

This message comes from National Geographic's Pompeii out of Time with Tom Hiddleston, a new series from the executive producers of Loki. Pompeii out of Time with Tom Hiddleston is now streaming on Disney and Hulu.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

This is America in Pursuit, a limited run series from NPR and Throughline. I'm Rund Abdelfattah. Each week we we bring you stories about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the US that began 250 years ago. This week, the spirit of American humor, no matter how crude, rude or distasteful, the Supreme Court has upheld that all people residing in the US have the constitutional right to mock or criticize public figures and government officials.

[Interviewer/Host]

The First Amendment is first for a reason. The Second Amendment is just in case the first one doesn't work out.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

That's Dave Chappelle accepting the Mark twain Prize in 2019. And for his part, Mark Twain, the prolific American satirist from a century ago, didn't mince words about comedy. He wrote in 1897, the secret source of humor is not joy, but sorrow. There is no humor in heaven. And so in that spirit, on this episode, we take a romp into American comedy in all its harshness and rawness. Thanks to our colleagues in the NPR Newsroom. Our first story is from Elizabeth Blair about the dance between comedians and politicians. That's coming up after a quick break.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Made in Cookware President and co founder Jay Kalik shares why he was inspired by his family's fourth generation kitchen supply business.

[Clifford Nesteroff]

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[Jeff Bennett]

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[Clifford Nesteroff]

And when you think about what we

[Jeff Bennett]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

Learn more about Made in Cookware at M a d e I-ncookware.com this message

[Clifford Nesteroff]

comes from NPR sponsor Carvana. Carvana makes car buying easy 100% online prices down to the penny, delivered to your door. Why make car buying hard when it could be easy? Visit Carvana.com today. Terms may apply. This message comes from Capella University. You know that feeling when there's a spark building inside you that you were meant for more? That's your own drive pushing you towards what's next. Capella University gets that with their Flexpath learning format. You can set the pace and earn your degree without putting life on pause. You've built experience and Know what you're capable of. Now this is your time to turn that momentum into more. The only real question is, what can't you do? Learn more at capella. Edu.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Satirists are known to punch up, meaning people in power bear the brunt of their jokes. Here's Stephen Colbert on cbs.

[Interviewer/Host]

Apparently, Trump learned that violent mass goons are not crowd pleasers. And he learned that from his most trusted advisor, the TV reportedly, they offend.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Here's Bill Maher on HBO Max and

[Interviewer/Host]

I can't fix that. What the Democrats are scared of more than anything else, I mean, obviously, besides gluten. Satire is a way of looking at reality and heightening reality to take down a worthy target.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Satirist Andy Borowitz points to Will Rogers, who died in 1935. Rogers, one of the most influential American humorists, often said that Congress made writing jokes easy.

[Interviewer/Host]

He said that about 100 years ago, and it's still true. We have this target rich environment of the government, but not just the government, the oligarchs, the institutions. So we just wake up every morning and say, okay, who's it going to be today?

[Narrator/Commentator]

Early American satirists like Benjamin Franklin and Washington Irving were influenced by Anglo Irish writers like Jonathan Swift and Oliver Goldsmith. But the goat of American satire is Mark Twain.

[Interviewer/Host]

Man is a reasoning animal. Such is the claim, though I do think that's open to dispute.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Actor Hal Holbrook in the CBS broadcast of Mark twain tonight in 1967.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I've been studying this reasoning animal for years now, and I find the results humiliating.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Holbrooke performed as Twain hundreds of times before he died in 2021. Actor Richard Thomas is touring the show now.

[Interviewer/Host]

When Twain speaks, he frequently just sounds like one of us rather than somebody who's giving wisdom.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Thomas says Twain would throw his darts, but was very careful not to simply offend.

[Interviewer/Host]

He's always the first to recognize his own frailties, which means that even when he's challenging you, he's also your friend. You know, he's also intimate with you because he's revealing as much about himself.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Rich people were often the target of Twain's satire.

[Interviewer/Host]

Incredibly contemptuous of big money wealth, but, you know, constantly trying to be a mogul, trying to be rich. When he went out west, he said the gold and silver fever was running high out there, and I came down to the disease right away. I knew that money was the root of all evil, and I wanted all I could get.

[Narrator/Commentator]

That intimacy with the audience is so powerful. Satirists are often more influential than politicians. Remember this, and I can see Russia from my house. Dina Fey's Saturday Night Live impression of Sarah Palin might be more memorable than Palin's actual campaign. Less than a month into President Trump's first term, Melissa McCarthy did an impression of press secretary Sean Spicer.

[Interviewer/Host]

Now, I'd like to begin today by

[Narrator/Commentator]

apologizing on behalf of you to me

[Interviewer/Host]

for how you have trouble treated me these last two weeks.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And that apology is not accepted for me.

[Jeff Bennett]

It was just completely surreal.

[Narrator/Commentator]

SEAN spicer I had a really tough,

[Interviewer/Host]

you know, time out of the gate at the White House. It's probably generous on my behalf. And so look, it was fair, it was funny, it was a little well deserved.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Political players have generally accepted the ridicule, at least publicly. In the 1960s, Vaughn Meter's parody album of the Kennedy family was a sensation.

[Interviewer/Host]

Something must be done. Now, Bobby it might just be a matter of a change of a few words. You know, for instance, let's take a word like vigor. I say vigor. How do you say vigor?

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Vigor.

[Narrator/Commentator]

While Jacqueline Kennedy was not a fan, John F. Kennedy gave copies of the First Family as Christmas gifts. President Trump has vigorously criticized satirists who've joked about him, especially Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert. Sean Spicer thinks it's justified. He says late night comedy has taken a mean turn and become too political.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's not about being funny and entertaining and telling jokes. It's about advancing a liberal agenda and one against Donald Trump.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

It's the clearest indication of the power of satire.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Danielle Fuentes Morgan is an associate professor in the Department of English at Santa Clara University. She isn't surprised to see the president criticize comedians on his social media because

[Rund Abdelfattah]

if it was just jokes, he wouldn't care.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Morgan says satire has been a vital part of what it means to be American. It can even be a matter of life or death, she says. She's the author of a book about the history of African American satire called Laughing to Keep From Dying.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Satire is about subversion. It is a survival tactic that is meant to open up space for black life. And what it does is demonstrate black resiliency, black selfhood and black intelligence.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Morgan cites comedians Richard Pryor and Jordan Peale. In her book. She writes about one of the earliest records of African American satire from 1865. It's a letter from Jordan Anderson, a formerly enslaved man living in Ohio, responding to a letter he'd received from his former master in Tennessee.

[Interviewer/Host]

Although you shot at me twice before I left you, I did not want to hear of your being hurt and am glad that you are still living.

[Narrator/Commentator]

That's actor Laurence Fishburne reading Anderson's missive for the series Letters Live. Anderson's former master asked him if he and his wife would come back and work for them.

[Interviewer/Host]

Now, if you will write and say what wages you will give me, I will better be able to decide whether it would be to my advantage to move back again.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

It vacillates so beautifully between comedy and horror.

[Interviewer/Host]

Our earnings would amount to $11,680. Add this, the interest for the time of our wages have been kept back.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

It is a really precise indication of Jordan Anderson's ability to speak the truth about what happened in a way that still provides him some cover by pretending like he's just being very earnest.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Humor, says Morgan, can lower people's defenses and get them to listen to topics they might otherwise avoid.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

You've created a space where people are a little bit more willing to hear it because they're laughing.

[Narrator/Commentator]

American satire paved the way for standup comedy, considered by many practitioners to be a truly American art form. That is, if you can take a joke. Elizabeth Blair, NPR News.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

But where did stand up come from? Well, we found an origin story from Cliff Nesteroff, who wrote the Comedians, Drunks, Thieves, Scoundrels and the History of American Comedy. Turns out the term stand up came from the mob. To explain, Nesteroff brings us back to the start of the 20th century. He chatted with NPR's Renee Montagne in 2015.

[Clifford Nesteroff]

The idea of what a comedian was was very different back then. In vaudeville, comedians often wore costumes. They had partners. They would go around on roller skates delivering punchlines, the old cliche of the seltzer bottle and the baggy pants, that was all very much a reality at the turn of the century in comedy, in vaudeville, there was a guy named Frank Fay who changed the whole game. It was revolutionary at the time, who decided to go up on stage without a costume. He had baggy pants comedy, and he couldn't live with himself. He hated gimmicks, you know, so he'd go up on stage with a just wearing a tuxedo and a carnation in his lapel, the same way he would have offstage, just stood on stage and told jokes. Slowly but surely his style gave way as it influenced other young comedians, guys who were starting out like Bob Hope and Milton Berle and Jack Benny. They were all influenced by this guy Frank Fay. But at that time they were just called comedians. The phrase stand up comedy didn't come later until the mafia started to control show business.

[Narrator/Announcer]

And that goes back to speakeasies. When prohibition ended, those illegal gin joints became legitimate nightclubs still, though in many

[Rund Abdelfattah]

cases controlled by mobsters.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Just one of many examples, the Green Mill cocktail lounge in Chicago was co owned by Al Capone associate machine gun Jack McGurn.

[Clifford Nesteroff]

In my book I interviewed a 90 year old comedian, kind of an obscure guy who never made it, named Dick Curtis. And he worked all kinds of small mob run nightclubs. And he argues that the Mafia invented the phrase stand up comedy because in those days they managed a lot of fighters. A lot of boxers were owned by the mob. And a fighter that could stand up and take abuse and keep punching was called a stand up fighter. And a guy that the mob could rely on was called a stand up guy. So a stand up comic was a guy who could go up on stage, take abuse from hecklers. Joke, joke, joke, joke. Very reliable performer, they called him a stand up comic.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Back in the early 1980s, Eddie Murphy rose to national attention as a stand up comic. At just 19 years old, he was tapped by SNL and he went on to make dozens of movies. And millions of Americans, including me, laugh.

[Jeff Bennett]

America is great indeed.

[Interviewer/Host]

Imagine a country so free one can

[Jeff Bennett]

throw glass on the streets.

[Narrator/Commentator]

You must be out of your mind.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Black comedians like Eddie Murphy and before him Richard Pryor brought a new sense of storytelling and raw critique of America. Their humor allowed Americans to see themselves more clearly by inviting everyone in on the joke. That's what journalist Jeff Bennett argues in his book Black out the Revolutionary History of Black Comedy from vaudeville to 90s sitcoms. It's this new vein of humor, he says, that transformed American comedy as we know it. He spoke with Scott Simon this past spring.

[Interviewer/Host]

Jeff, thanks so much for being with us.

[Jeff Bennett]

It is a joy to speak with you, Scott, thanks for the invitation.

[Interviewer/Host]

Let's begin with Burt Williams, first black recording artist, highest paid performer in an otherwise all white Ziegfeld Follies of 1911. W.C. fields called him the funniest man I ever saw and the saddest I ever knew. How do we put all that together today?

[Jeff Bennett]

The funniest man he ever saw and the saddest he ever knew. It really speaks to the contradiction of black performers at that time who were so talented and had so much to offer, but were forced to perform within the narrow limits of the racist structures back then. Even Bert Williams found ways to infuse some semblance of dignity and humanity into his performance when the only thing he was really allowed to do was to poke fun at blackness, vaudeville and minstrelsy. That was mass entertainment at the time. And so the DNA of black comedic performance really begins with that era.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do black comedians, dare I say, like Jewish comedians, carry the weight of history?

[Jeff Bennett]

They do. And what's so particular about the 90s? And one of the reasons I wanted to focus on this era is that I'd always had this sort of lingering sense of curiosity about how all of these shows, Martin, Living Single, Fresh Prince, in Living Color, Family Matters, A different World, how they all existed at the same time. And after doing the research, I realized that that wasn't a coincidence. And you can draw a direct line from that era to the early days to the Burt Williams who you mentioned to the Billy Kirsands. But beneath that, to your point, they also had to sort of carry the responsibility of being a black artist and representing the fullness of that experience.

[Interviewer/Host]

I have to tell you, I was surprised to see the names Amos and Andy in here.

[Jeff Bennett]

Well, long before sitcoms, the many of us grew up with, I think, you know, one of the most popular comedy programs in America was Amos and Andy. And at its height in the 1930s, nearly half of the country was listening to that program every night. And the complication of that show was that it was originally performed by two white actors using exaggerated black dialect, and it relied on stereotypes that today are obviously deeply uncomfortable to hear.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right now, Amos and the Kingfish are in the office discussing Andy's feeling for Madame Queen. Oh, I telling you, Kingfish, the way Andy looks at Madame Queen, I can tell that he is in love with her again. Yeah, I still don't believe it. Amos. I always say that you can't cook an omelette but once.

[Jeff Bennett]

But in the early 1950s, with the advent of television, Amos and Andy moves to tv, and the roles are played by black actors. And so, for the first time, millions of Americans are seeing a black cast on television every week.

[Interviewer/Host]

Greetings from the President of the United States. You have been chosen by your friends and neighbors to serve. Holy smoke. Handy. They're gonna induction me. Induction you? I guarantee you they don't want you. You ain't got nothing to worry about. All you gotta do is call them up and tell them they done made a mistake. Yeah, that's the thing you do.

[Jeff Bennett]

What fascinated me is that realizing the story of black comedy, it has always moved through contradictions like that. Moments of limitation that eventually open the door for something bigger and something better.

[Interviewer/Host]

I want to get you to talk about Richard Pryor. Because the word genius still clings to him, doesn't it?

[Jeff Bennett]

I mean, before Pryor, a lot of comedians performed safe material, I guess you could say. Observational jokes, funny stories about everyday life. But Richard Pryor walked straight into the truth. He talked openly about race, addiction, poverty, police violence, his own mistakes.

[Interviewer/Host]

When I was drinking, though, it was fine. I had to stop drinking, though. Cause I got tired of, like, waking up in my car driving 90.

[Jeff Bennett]

There was this full complexity of being human. And he did it in a way that was raw, that was vulnerable, that was hilarious. And it really gave permission to comedians to tell the truth on stage. So for this book, I talked to a number of the performers and showrunners and producers who were key to the shows that we saw in the 90s. One of them being Sinbad. And he told me a story about how he grew up in a religious family and he got his hands on a Richard Pryor album and was playing it in his room. And what he remembered, he told me, was his parents cracking up and asking, who is that? Who is that? And of course, it was Richard Pryor. And he said, you know, Richard Pryor was able to catch everybody. And that's certainly the truth.

[Interviewer/Host]

Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock, great talents today. Do you think black comics have a special calling in today's America?

[Jeff Bennett]

I would say it this way. I think that I'm gonna think about this because I don't want to put more responsibility on black comics than is due.

[Interviewer/Host]

Let me put it this way. I really like Dave Chappelle. And he's irritated some people in recent years, I guess even irritated me every now and then. But I find him very much worth listening to.

[Jeff Bennett]

I think it's true that for a Chris Rock and a Dave Chappelle, or frankly, any comic that works at that level, black comics, for sure, that the comedy has never just been about the laughter. You see comedy as a survival tactic, as a political language. In the 90s, it was an economic engine. With these really popular sitcoms. Black performers have used humor to critique power. And I think in doing so, they've shaped American identity itself.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's Saturday. What would you recommend people watch tonight?

[Jeff Bennett]

I would say cue up Coming to America. That's a foundational text in terms of black comedy.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's the first time I've heard Coming to America called a foundational text.

[Jeff Bennett]

America is great indeed.

[Interviewer/Host]

Imagine a country so free, one can

[Jeff Bennett]

throw glass on the streets.

[Interviewer/Host]

You must be out of your mind. You crazy. You crazy. I am not crazy. Listen, real American.

[Jeff Bennett]

And then if you're thinking about sitcoms, the Whitley and Duane's Wedding, On a Different World. The second season of In Living Color, I think was unmatched. There was chaos and genius at the same time. Will's monologue about his father in Fresh Prince, this really resonant emotional moment that nobody saw coming in the middle of a sitcom on Martin. Martin and Gina just talking the way that they talk to each other like real people. And that's what I keep coming back to with these sitcoms in particular, is that yes, they were funny, yes, they were hilarious, but there was a specificity and authenticity that made them universal. So it was black audiences and white audiences watching these shows side by side. And that's why they've been so culturally impactful.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

That's it for this week's America in Pursuit. And join us next week for our final installment when we celebrate a song woven into the tapestry of the 20th century, one that's become a global anthem.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's a little song that we sing in our movement down in the South. I don't know if you've heard it. I'm usually credited to with changing it to Shell. It is one of the most powerful at the same time, sacred moment when we were saying we shall overcome.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

That's next week. This episode was produced by Nick Neves and edited by Julia Redpath with support from the Throughline production team. Music by Ramtin Adaplooi and his band Drop Electric. Special thanks to to Irene Noguchi, Yolanda Sangweni, Liana Simstrom, Casey Miner and Lindsey McKenna. I'm your host, Rund Abdelfatah. Thanks for listening.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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